In Defense of the Dark Empire
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ส.ค. 2022
- Thanks for 10K, everyone! To celebrate I wanted to drop the Dark Empire video I had been putting over forever. So sit back and I hope you enjoy "In defense of the dark empire".
Twitter: / thefirstokiro
Patreon: / thefirstokiro
ko-fi.com/thefirstokiro
Channel managed by: Kloei Villanueva
For business inquiries, contact: TheFirstOkiroBusiness@gmail.com - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
Love hearing the feedback from everyone on what you guys think of dark empire. Also I just wanted to give a heartache and scratch this video on my bucket list 😂 appreciate y’all
Join our discord if you ever wanna talk discord.gg/94QyUWGY
I can see why your vids take some time to make. You put into consideration:
1. Quality editing
2. Great ideas for discussion
3. Getting interrupted from being SWAT-ed XD
I digress, for the vast majority of your points in your vids I’ve wholeheartedly agreed with the majority. In regards to Dark Empire( haven’t read it but get the idea ), I do agree it would be so much better than TLJ but it would have to replace TFA which already has way too good of a set up to mess with. It would be weird to work it in as there is no real indication of it in TFA.
And I disagree about Rey as Luke’s daughter, I don’t know, I know Mara Jade was a thing but I really can’t see Luke as a Father. Rey is awesome in TFA I just wish she stayed naïve for at least the second movie. If that were the case then maybe a familial relationship could work?
My interpretation is that she is looking for a parental figure, something she’s always needed but never had. First was Han who taught and disciplined her and Finn on a few things, Leia who was kinda motherly to her, and finally Luke who shows wisdom and the importance of focus, determination and patience(what could’ve been…).
I’m not sure if all of this is relevant, like Han said, “Sorry about the mess”
Also Lando should’ve been there from the beginning. Just something that really bugs me.
Great vids as always!
Dark Empire was the a logical payoff for Luke.
- In ANH, Luke was brash, headstrong, and only destroyed the Death Star with Obi WAN’s guidance and only survived an encountered with Vader due to Han’s help
- In ESB, Luke has gained some skills and experience, but is baited and rushes off prematurely to a fight with Vader he isn’t prepared for. He only escapes with Leia’s help.
- In RotJ, Luke is finally seasoned enough to go toe-to-toe with Vader, and defeats him. But he is in no way prepared to face Vader’s master, the Emperor, and he survives only because his father saves him, sacrificing himself in the process.
- In Dark Empire, after Leia is able to pull him back into the light, Luke is FINALLY able to meet Palpatine on even grounds. It is a logical payoff to one of the greatest hero’s journeys in cinematic history.
And then you have LoTF, where Luke is turned into a psycho.
@@and8091 Lotf didn't turn Luke into a psycho.
This is exactly why I love Legends, and hope for it to be fully resurrected
The sad thing is, most Legends fans, and even some Legends authors, wanted to bury Dark Empire and never speak about it.
Fans who’ve never read Dark Empire only hate on it because that’s the cool thing to do.
Just like how it was cool to hate on the prequels back in the day.
Beyond Luke’s journey in the comic, Han, Leia, Lando all had their collective journeys by fighting the Imperial Remnant. Boba Fett returns and is the same killer he was before being swallowed by the Sarlaac.
I’d love to see a live action or animated version of the fight on Mon Cala with those World Devastators.
Dark empire was written by fans.
The sequel triology was written by a hack (jj abrams) and s troll(rian johnson). I am not sure if its possible to write a worse version of luke.
Wrong. They aren't hacks or trolls but fans who made fine films.
I don't completely agree with you, but I always love hearing you talk about Star Wars & Marvel, so from the whole of my heart, thank you for making these videos & may the Force be with you, always.
NO WAY?! I come back to your channel to see you uploaded a new video a month ago, and then you love my comment a few minutes after I make it, and then you drop this video 10 minutes later - Okiro, you utter legend. This is an absolutely amazing day. Nothing is a coincidence 👁️
You know even when I don't agree with you I always enjoy your content. Back in the 90's I hated Dark Empire. I've mellowed towards it over time but only because I placed it into my Alternate Universe head canon. It's a fun ride to see him be a real bad ass and behave differently like this, yet still Luke in his own way, but I hated with a passion the effect it had on the novel writers and how they then wrote about Luke afterward. He became more somber, to authors, more moody and hesitant, and others were forever yelling at him and thinking he would turn dark if he got the slightest bit angry. Mean while everyone else could get mad and emotional. I still wish Comics and books/films were kept as separate universes. I do agree that this story does give him a better redemption arc where the SQ's just ugh don't make me think about them at all. I love legends, and especially a lot of characters that I'm gutted to never see again, but I was just as critical about flaws and bad takes in it as I was for the sequels. I have to say I appreciate your injections of humor through the vid. It's part of your charm.
Love Star Wars EU, legends is my cannon for Star Wars. More Legends content please.
I've just finished reading it, still trying to figure out what I think, but even if I hated it, I would still say Leia really shines in this one. She's fearless, standing up to Palps, trying to protect her brother, her husband and her son. It's beautiful.
Fun fact: George Lucas had a good amount of involvement with this comic. Tom and the authors wanted to initially bring back Darth Vader where someone wore his armor, George Lucas himself vetoed it and said "No, but if you can bring the Emperor back, that'd be neat."
TH-camr Matt Wilkins, who is a long-time friend of mine, and EU expert goes into more detail here on Lucas's involvement:
th-cam.com/video/EpNKXphJpYE/w-d-xo.html
I have heard the exact opposite, that Lucas disliked the idea of Palpatine coming back which was why they started running their stories past him so he could veto or approve them.
@@Darthpsychonis Lucas suggested it that's what matters, also George Lucas wanted to show more of what emperor papaltine could do with the force, we never got it in the original, and unlike in Disney star wars EU writers never emasculated and humiliated luke Skywalker like Kathleen Kennedy did
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 I don't think it is true that Lucas suggested it. He is also on record of saying what happened in the EU is not what he would have done if he made the sequel trilogy, saying Luke wouldn't have gotten married and Palpatine wouldn't have been cloned.
@Psychonis George Lucas contradict himself alot also the EU still way better than Disney star wars
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 I don't care how you feel about Disney Star Wars. That's not the point. And if you think that Lucas contradicted himself that would take away from Lucas allegedly "suggesting" using Palpatine in DE. Regardless, he was clearly against it afterwards, indicating that Palpatine's resurrection is against his vision of Star Wars. Whether it be from the old EU or Disney.
Really great video! As a fan of Luke too, I really enjoy your analysis of his character.
Also the Somehow Palpatine bits got me laughing 😂
Excellent video, First Okiro. (And excellent snipe at Filoni). Your defense has convinced me to re-read Dark Empire. I'm excited!
I still like Dark Empire to this day
Same love it
“What do you mean, you've seen this? It's brand new.”
Congrats Okiro!! So very well earned and deserved!!
Sick video man and super funny af lmao. Looking forward to more! 🚀
In regards to Dark Empire undermining the Chosen One: It isn't about DE being made before the prequels as that still wouldn't justify the in-universe contradiction. However, it all depends on how you interprete bringing balance to the Force. No one can say that the prophecy wasn't true or that somebody else was the real chosen one. George said, Anakin IS the Chosen One and he fulfills the prophecy through his sacrifice in episode 6. These are immovable facts.
So, some people say that Palpatine or even no other Sith can ever come back after episode 6. I don't think that way. Here's how I think it works, in Legends at least: Anakin did truly bring balance to the force as he opened the door for the Rebellion to continue the fight and push back the Empire. By initially killing Sidious, he made the Empire weak, after Endor they fractured and started loosing the war. The Rebellion became the New Republic and within 2,5 years became the most powerfull government in the galaxy.
NONE of that would have been possible without Vader's sacrifice. If Palpatine stayed alive in his original body and kept controll over the Empire, the Battle of Endor wouldn't have been won, and the Empire would stay centralised and powerfull. The Rebels would have been destroyed quickly after Endor. Luke would have been dead or turned to the Dark Side. Leia wouldn't have proper guidence to become a Jedi herself, even if she was trained by Obi Wan and Yoda's ghosts, she wouldn't have been able to oppose the Emperor and Luke or Vader alone.
After Endor Palpatine did manage to hold on to life through clones for a while, but he had to hide on Byss for years and was never able to rebuild his Empire and regain the power he had previously. Yes, he was still powerfull in the Dark Side, he could create force storms and yes he did turn Luke. However, the Empire, with all it's remaining military, the ships and superweapons, was still a mere shadow of its former self. Despite a few resurgences like Thrawn and Palpatine after him, it could never become the powerhouse that it was before the Battle Of Endor. They declined stadely after that event.
Palpatine was in truth way more vulnearable than ever before, his artificial bodies could not hold his more and more unstable essence, he decayed and in fact was closer and closer to falling apart. That's why Luke with the help of Leia could defeat him, otherwise they wouldn't stand a chance.
The Sith were still around for some time after Palpatine but they could never repeat the success of Sidious. Darth Krayt was the closest one to chive this but he never became as powerfull as Palpatine and he was never able to secure his short rule over the galaxy. And shortly after him the last Sith was killed.
So there you have it, Anakin did fulfill the prophecy, because his sacrifice was essential on the Rebellions/NR's path towards defeating the Empire and the Jedi's path towards victory over the Sith in general. Yes, they did have many struggles after Palpatine, yes, it took many years to achive total victory over the empire, yes, even after that they had to deal with the Vong Invasion and other Sith like Caedus and Krayt or monsters like Abeloth, in other words Palpatine caused a mess that would continue for a century, but at the end of the day, the Jedi would have not been able to win at all without Anakin. Palpatine would have secured the Sith's rule and the galaxy would have become a dark place for millenia, were every loving being is controlled by the will of the Dark Side.
Everything the New Jedi Order did after the OT was the continuation of Anakin Skywalker's Legacy, Legacy Of The Force.
I'm a fan of the audio drama that came out in 94, which features Billy Dee Williams continuing his tradition of mispronouncing common in universe words/names (like Han), by calling Coruscant "Chorus - Can't" throughout 🤣
EXCELENT VIDEO, MY DEAR
I loved Dark Empire, both when I heard about the concept of it, and when I finally read it after purchasing a hardcover compilation of the whole trilogy. It was the Sequel Trilogy we all deserved, but never got. If I ever take over Disney, the first thing I'm going to do is have Din Djarin go into one of those time portals and stab Palpatine on Exogol with the Darksaber, which would create a butterfly effect and lead to a future where the Thrawn Trilogy, the Dark Empire trilogy, and the Crimson Empire trilogy all happen, then we bring in the Dark Forces games into the canon. And Luke's fall in Dark Empire makes sense, because he's trying to figure out a way to kill Palpatine with the Dark Side, and he falls into it, kind of like how his old man did.
I don't think their should ever be a "palpatine retuned" story but if it HAD to be done Dark Empire is definetly the best case scenareo.
I feel like this cemented anakin's prophecy. Because the chosen one's legacy were his children, and they were the ones who had to keep the balance that their father restored
Well this comic is something I definately need to get.
Star Wars dark house comic was amazing and I wish want live in that but I glad got full epic collection
I actually think they should've given Rey Luke's aesthetic/arc in Dark Empire.. yeh. Fight me.
Long have I waited, for Okiro to upload hvis video
Dark empire , Dark empire 2, empire`s end is the sequals we should have got, and with corrections the last sequal would be an Ok send of if we had got the story in between.
I wish we could get a re-colored version of Dark Empire with the correct colors.
When I saw the rise of Skywalker, the first thing I thought was 'did they just give up and do Dark Empire?..... this was Dark Empire right?'
I love Dark empire
I get the reasons why people had issues with Dark Empire but I always thought it had more good, or at least interesting aspects to it. Then Disney, Jar Jar Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy came along and only served to make Dark Empire smell like pristine roses after how badly they ripped it off after throwing it and the far better EU into the grave.
YOOO its finally here!!!!!!
I just We could start a movement like when the DC fan starting the campaign of “ restore the Snyder cut “
At least I’m pretty sure we can all agree it did Palpatine’s return a hell of a lot better than the sequels did
I used to be a huge DE hater back in the day, but I've warmed up to it overtime. I think the reason why I was so against it was because of the pacing it went through. It felt too restrictive in a regular six-issue comic mini-series, where important parts of the story (like Luke's training on Byss, the fall of Coruscant and eruption of the Imperial civil war, etc.) are glossed over for adventures on Nar Shaddaa. The adventures aren't bad, but they just feel out of place for the main crux of the story: Luke's 'turn' to the dark side.
The sequels make things more confusing with the introduction of the Galaxy Gun (which is just... dumb as fuck, lmao), the Ysanna and the Jedi siblings being brought in only to be killed off the same story they showed up in, and how unfocused the story seemed to get halfway through the sequels. I ain't gonna bash Kam or the Dark Side elite coming in unprompted since Lightsider (the novel they were originally supposed to debut in) was canned before it could get off the ground, nor bash the rushed production of EE.
If by the slimmest possible chance that Legends content could be brought back, I'd be down to see a retelling of Dark Empire with more time given to Luke and the other Darksiders under Palpatine's thrall, along with an insight on other people's thoughts of the Dark Empire; Pellaeon, other Imperial warlords, even New Republic officials themselves.
I love how Disney has changed everyone's perspective on things. I used to hate Dark Empire but then Disney tries to copy it for their sequel trilogy and now its like remember when Dark Empire did it better?
10:50 fucking preach!
I prefer Legends over Disney anytime! More heart and quality than they do! Well not ALL of Disney Canon was terrible.
Somehow ... Okiro returned.
What I find interesting on a meta level with Dark Empire is that it kind of started the idea the Sith (and especially Palpatine) wanted to gain immortality. It wasn't until Revenge of the Sith where the movies touched the concept. And with the various Clone Wars-related products, it kind of validated the idea that the Emperor would return. Had they planned out the sequel trilogy, and had they also planned out Palpatine's resurrection, it could have worked. Execution was always key. You could of course argue the whole Chosen One prophecy invalidates it, but honestly in the context of the OT the idea of a Chosen One didn't exist, and in the context of the PT it came off as more of a plot device for Anakin. Anakin killing Palpatine wasn't satisfying because he fulfills some destiny, but because he saves his son and proves that Luke was right about him...and with the PT, catharsis that he has finally overcome the control and grooming Palpatine has had on him for like 30 years. Palpatine's return in the ST was only ever a thing because they let Rian absentmindedly toss Snoke aside without building Kylo up as a fitting replacement for the Big Bad.
I somehow felt that bit where Warner Brother DC gets roasted coming (maybe the force let me know or something), and yet the joke still hit me. I swear, I have been complaining about Warner Brother DC for the past few days now for what happened to Batgirl, and given that Warner Brother DC isn't stopping here, I will not be done complaining.
Anyways, very good video about Star Wars. People should absolutely pirate Dark Empire if they want to read it. I actually have no intention to, not because it's wrong, but because I'm not into comics, but those who are should be more like Hando.
Have another sub g
I’ve only heard the basic details of it, and already it’s way better then Ep 9. Ep 9 just shoved in Palpatine as a way to give the Sequels a false sense of saga finality. DE is better because it doesn’t invalidate the Chosen One prophecy by having someone else finish Palpatine, Luke in the end finishes him with the help of a Jedi Master sacrificing himself to pull Palpatine’s soul into the afterlife for good, as killing his bodies over and over wasn’t working. Vs Ep 9 which had Rey kill him by deflecting his lighting back at him. Not to mention where as Ep 9 just claimed him to be a big potential threat if not stopped immediately, DE made him an active threat, he unleashed his forces and powerful new weapons like the World Devastators upon the galaxy, beginning a brutal devastating war. Palpatine also was a physical threat. At first being in younger bodies he not only had his knowledge, skill, and Force experience, but now a much younger and physically capable body housing all that, and even when in old bodies was still a threat as he could just keep coming back in a new body. Overall way better in DE than EP9 which pales in comparison to DE even with DE’s many flaws.
I think it would’ve been cool if it was Darth Plagueis instead of Palpatine in DE
i dont hate this comic as much as before rise of skywalker now
You should be working for Lucasfilm's story group.
I own this series..best starwars series shouldve been a movie then thrawn series but KK was right. There wasnt any comics or books to go off of for new movies
Luke was a total badass in dark empire and far more powerful than Disney vader
Who cares?
@@and8091 you care
Dark Empire is a great High Space Fantasy comic. Too bad that not only does it get flak from modern EU haters, but much of the EU fanbase also didn't like it. The Karen Traviss books had more fans that it did, which is annoying, since Dark Empire was actually beautiful, while all the Republic Commando novels did for me was confuse me and make me wonder why they shared a name with such a wonderful game, when they had so little in common with it.
What star wars clip is that from 2:10 to 2:30
One of the new post-Zakuul SWTOR trailers.
I'm gonna be honest. I've really liked a lot of your takes on Star Wars but I'm respectfully disagreeing with you on Dark Empire. To me, it's a mess and only slightly better than Rise of Skywalker because since it's roughly standalone we can pretend it didn't happen when it's all over. Still, you are entitled to your opinion and I won't begrudge you for feeling the way you do.
💛
I disagree completely. Not only was this one of Lucas' ideas, but when you take in the greater Star Wars mythos, it's a perfect representation of the Light/Dark battle which we saw in the films. The bad guys come with OP superweapons. The big bad has powers the good guys don't have. The good guys are in over their heads, but faith, family, and friendship helps them win the day against the OP bad guy who in the end, is exposed as a pathetic shadow of what he could have been. (Literally, the spirits of the Ancient Sith LAUGH at Emperor Palpatine and tell him to get screwed when he asks them to heal his last, dying clone body.)
@@HolyknightVader999 Lucas didn't always have good ideas, just look at the god awful prequels and special editons.
@@and8091 The Prequels were great, and the special editions weren't that bad. And the first thing I saw of Star Wars was the original version of the OT.
@@HolyknightVader999 Oh dear.
They always make Legends look better.
Because it’s always better
It was just far better Disney star wars is soulless generic poorly written watered down inconsistent repetitive uncreative small and boring
Actually I would argue that Dark Empire was a terrible book and completely undermined Vaders sacrifice as well as made Luke into something he never should have been. I will admit though it was way better than Rise of Skywalker.
SWOTOR is garbage that ruined Revan and the Jedi Exile.
Outside of revan story it was amazing like knights of the fallen empire
Most of SWTOR is good, it's just the Revan and Exile parts didn't do those characters justice.
Legends definitely has more retcons than canon does
I respect your opinion but I disagree with you here. The problem with Dark Empire in my mind is that the Emperor tried to turn Luke to the Dark Side five years ago and pretty much failed. I believe Palpatine is smart enough to realize that Luke's willpower and commitment to the light side is strong enough to resisting his dark manipulations, especially now that five years has passed and he has become more powerful. It's weird that Palpatine didn't think to question why Luke joined him this time and easier and since he was betrayed once by Vader, he would keep an eye on Luke in order to not let the past repeat itself. Also, true the Chosen One wasn't a thing when this was written but even without the prophecy, Palpatine's death in ROTJ was the best ending for him. I like the idea of him having contact with the physical world but not a complete resurrection. I think if we want to make Palpatine come back, the best way is how Exar Kun spirit came back and fought Luke and his Jedi Knights. Again, I don't have anything against the author or anyone. I just don't like the idea of Palpatine returning in Physical form but at least Dark Empire has some good things unlike TROS, like Leia's arc. This made me love Leia even more and the concept of World Devastators are really interesting and cool.
First
Nice
Thanks!
Okiro