What is your preferred solution for comfort? Girthy or slender bar tape? Active or Passive suspension? The Silca blog, a treasure of quality information regarding how tires interact with rough pavement, has been supplemented with a video series! I'll be enjoying MGTV EP 0001-0011 over the next few days. Maybe a few others too, even if they seem to lean marketing adjacent. th-cam.com/play/PLCQwC0wAMVmCASWoMJbqlNuCM-reYdCqy.html
Thanks for this. My issue is arthritic hands and past back injuries. I'm 62 and otherwise extremely fit. I fixed the back issue by going more upright by changing to a Nitto HiRiser from Rivendell (shorter and higher reach) to give me a more upright posture. I also changed out the stock Salsa drop bars to Rene Herse 420cm Randonneur bars, and instead of the standard cloth car tape I used Fizik gel pads and wrapped with Sala gelcork tape. Oh, and I optimize the tire pressure on my Compass (now Rene Herse brand) 32mm Stamped tires w. extralight casing. All of that has greatly improved things. Back pain greatly reduced if not gone and hand pain has improved, but still my hands cause me pain after an hour of riding. I'm tempted by the aero bars as simply a way to get ALL pressure of my hands, but not sure if it is worth the loss of real estate. The only other thing I can think to do is get better gloves with more padding, but is more padding going to do the job? Can you suggest anything else? Side-note: You cited some studies indicating wider tires have an aerodynamic drag. This does not seem to be the conclusions from Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly (#74, Winter 2020 "Aerodynamics of Wide Tires" page 100.
Thanks for watching! It looks like you done a lot to develop comfort on your bike and have made really good choices to that end. Arthritis must be difficult to manage on long rides still. I simply have a heavy torso, dainty hands, and I'm not particularly tough minded, so use aero bars to give the hands and shoulders extended breaks and fight through headwinds. Storage has been moved to top tube, frame, and saddle bags, so only the light and GPS are out front at the moment. Aero bars restrict the accessibility of a traditional porteur bag (which is also quite poor aerodynamically). I made a video on using aero bars for long rides which might be of interest to you. I use a suspension stem and seatpost for extra comfort, which may be worth considering. I've found that the fastest tire pressure on my typical rough tarmac (~55 PSI on a 30c tires, 32mm measured width), while lower than what we mostly used 10 years ago, still transmits a fair bit of road buzz and the Redshift stem attenuates that really well. I suspect the Vecnum freeQENCE stem may outperform it slightly, but that's a lot of money to test a hunch for minor improvements. I've found foams degrade on both gloves and bibs much quicker than their fabrics wear. When that happens, they can be less comfortable than no gloves or unpadded shorts. The same thing happens with running shoe midsoles. Getting some fresh gloves would likely help you too. It sounds like you may have a classic-style rando bike, and I don't know how low trail geometry pairs with aero bars. Common saddles on those bikes like the B17 also don't pair well. Aero bars, suspension components, and a saddle that supports aero bar position could also have a pretty negative impact on classic bike aesthetics, which is well worth considering too. Frankly, they are all very ugly haha. Regarding BQ, I gotta get up on my soapbox for a moment. I appreciate that Jan has brought about some positive changes to how we approach cycling. That said, the magazine (which I assume has much the same content as online) should be viewed as classically styled 'content marketing'. Much like The Furrow from John Deere, but with more direct product and brand bias. He has a stated position, sells the related products, and will only publish findings that support his position and products, while ignoring or minimizing opposing evidence. While it has plenty of useful information, it should be taken with the same grains of salt as any other bike brand's marketing materials. Rant over haha. I hope you are able to find a bit more comfort and relieve your hands. Please report back with what you found useful.
I'm a big fan of very low gearing. I have a video in the pipeline addressing the needs for low gearing for randonneurs and long distance cyclists coming up. Sat tuned!
I conducted an informal test between two of my bikes at opposite ends of the spectrum. 1st bike, aluminum track bike brakeless with aero bars. 2nd old faithful upgraded 40 year old steel road bike. No power meters. 2 separate days, same route, same wind direction and strength. Track, milage recorded 21.9, GPS= 21.7 miles. 15.7mph average speed, 24mph max. Classic steel recorded 21.8 miles, 14.3 mph, and max speed 24 mph. Both bikes have double wrapped bar tape, and the classic has a B17. The track bike has a harsh ride and identical tire pressure. The track bike has a comfortable aero position, while the classic has deep drops, which on flat terrain are unsustainable for long usage. The track bike loses some ground in town due to brakeless. If on hilly course, the choice would be obvious. Same bike, 48x20 with freewheel and front brake on 40 mile ride northern New Jersey. I must have walked 4 miles of it with 10%+ grades. It was beyond the laws of physics ! I think I'll stay below 150k and stick to the flats. It's hard to find above 3% grades around here.
Loved hiking in Jersey when I thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail. Way more mountainous and steep than it's reputation would suggest. If you wanted to target long distances that include mountains, I hope some of my other videos could be helpful for you. Efficiency, comfort, and low gearing are all super important for those conditions. I'll be posting a 10,000km review and randonneuring setup video on my current bike in the near future which might be of interest to you. Thanks for sharing your test.
I wouldn't ride on the outer space of the coastal road in the beginning of the video. We can't even call it a sidewalk. But there could be pedestrians - what could and should you do then? It's already very narrow when you are alone. Mountain bikers call such an obstacle a skinny. Diverge slightly to the right or left and you will crash. Would a car driver then pick you up and get you to a hospital and pay your medical bills and buy you a new bike and get you a new and better job? Or when you just get a flat without crashing. Sharp objects will be on the "sidewalk" rather than on the lanes. Would a car driver stop and get a fitting tube and exchange the tubes professionally? After all you only ride there to not be in the way of car drivers. They should thank you for that.
After watching this and your tires optimization video I have decided to go with a set of the GP 5000 allseason in 35cc on my Rando/gravel bike over some wider Rene Herse tires. For not RR and aero gains. Since I’ve already grandpawed it out with a redshift shock stem and the canyon leaf spring seat post I don’t really need to go wider than 35 😂
That's a great choice for a high end tire. Curious if the high grip score is noticeable in riding. I predict 32-35mm measured width (wider for the classics) will be where pro racers settle in the next few years and tires will stop growing there, with amateurs probably settling at ~35mm. Rims are finally available to aerodynamically pair with those sizes too. Farsports have 34 and 38mm wide gravel rims, and Light Bicycle offers similar widths. Big brands will surely be close behind. Continental can overpower the competition in the cycling space with sheer human and technical resources, and economies of scale for peak performance. RH tires were solving major problems 10-15 years when no wide road tires were made, but that's no longer the case.
@@overbikedrandonneuring I think I caught a little jab at RH tire with the rebranded panaracer balloons and I think it’s fair enough I have heard quite a few people have issues with their tires and longevity. I have been a fan of Conti rubber, I have had 2 sets of the GP 4000’s on my triathlon bike and like them, I plan on upgrading to the 5000 tubeless when I wear this set out and moving up to 28cc as well pretty sure they will fit on my frame. I think your right 35 give you the flexibility to run damn low pressures when set up tubeless if wanted as well as the freedom to take it out on logging or fire roads. My wheels are 29 external and 25 internal so the aero penalty shouldn’t be too bad mated with a 35 cc tire. Thanks for your vids I’m enjoying the content a new subscriber and watching to see what’s next from you.
I think I'm gonna have to go e one of these B17 saddles a try, they seem to be highly rated by the randonneuring community and my current saddle just isn't up to very long rides.
Could be worth a shot if you ride in a very upright position. Saddles are so individual, it's hard to be certain without testing, but it's easy to sell a lightly used B17 not far below paid price. I found the B17 to be just okay over ~1 year of use. The leather surface was my favorite part, but the shape and support profile (for lack of a better term) were not great. Proponents note that leather conditioning, managing tension, and often tilting the seat nose upwards are key factors for the B17. Most folks I know who used one moved on to other saddles. I suspect nostalgia, conforming to in-group norms, and Bicycle Quarterly aesthetics play a role in their popularity.
What is your preferred solution for comfort?
Girthy or slender bar tape?
Active or Passive suspension?
The Silca blog, a treasure of quality information regarding how tires interact with rough pavement, has been supplemented with a video series! I'll be enjoying MGTV EP 0001-0011 over the next few days. Maybe a few others too, even if they seem to lean marketing adjacent. th-cam.com/play/PLCQwC0wAMVmCASWoMJbqlNuCM-reYdCqy.html
I was really impressed with the video! Lots of information, lots of data and really well/professional made! Thank you for this great video!
Great Intro/Outro
And inbetween
Thanks for this. My issue is arthritic hands and past back injuries. I'm 62 and otherwise extremely fit. I fixed the back issue by going more upright by changing to a Nitto HiRiser from Rivendell (shorter and higher reach) to give me a more upright posture. I also changed out the stock Salsa drop bars to Rene Herse 420cm Randonneur bars, and instead of the standard cloth car tape I used Fizik gel pads and wrapped with Sala gelcork tape. Oh, and I optimize the tire pressure on my Compass (now Rene Herse brand) 32mm Stamped tires w. extralight casing.
All of that has greatly improved things. Back pain greatly reduced if not gone and hand pain has improved, but still my hands cause me pain after an hour of riding. I'm tempted by the aero bars as simply a way to get ALL pressure of my hands, but not sure if it is worth the loss of real estate.
The only other thing I can think to do is get better gloves with more padding, but is more padding going to do the job? Can you suggest anything else?
Side-note: You cited some studies indicating wider tires have an aerodynamic drag. This does not seem to be the conclusions from Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly (#74, Winter 2020 "Aerodynamics of Wide Tires" page 100.
Thanks for watching! It looks like you done a lot to develop comfort on your bike and have made really good choices to that end. Arthritis must be difficult to manage on long rides still. I simply have a heavy torso, dainty hands, and I'm not particularly tough minded, so use aero bars to give the hands and shoulders extended breaks and fight through headwinds. Storage has been moved to top tube, frame, and saddle bags, so only the light and GPS are out front at the moment. Aero bars restrict the accessibility of a traditional porteur bag (which is also quite poor aerodynamically). I made a video on using aero bars for long rides which might be of interest to you.
I use a suspension stem and seatpost for extra comfort, which may be worth considering. I've found that the fastest tire pressure on my typical rough tarmac (~55 PSI on a 30c tires, 32mm measured width), while lower than what we mostly used 10 years ago, still transmits a fair bit of road buzz and the Redshift stem attenuates that really well. I suspect the Vecnum freeQENCE stem may outperform it slightly, but that's a lot of money to test a hunch for minor improvements.
I've found foams degrade on both gloves and bibs much quicker than their fabrics wear. When that happens, they can be less comfortable than no gloves or unpadded shorts. The same thing happens with running shoe midsoles. Getting some fresh gloves would likely help you too.
It sounds like you may have a classic-style rando bike, and I don't know how low trail geometry pairs with aero bars. Common saddles on those bikes like the B17 also don't pair well. Aero bars, suspension components, and a saddle that supports aero bar position could also have a pretty negative impact on classic bike aesthetics, which is well worth considering too. Frankly, they are all very ugly haha.
Regarding BQ, I gotta get up on my soapbox for a moment. I appreciate that Jan has brought about some positive changes to how we approach cycling. That said, the magazine (which I assume has much the same content as online) should be viewed as classically styled 'content marketing'. Much like The Furrow from John Deere, but with more direct product and brand bias. He has a stated position, sells the related products, and will only publish findings that support his position and products, while ignoring or minimizing opposing evidence. While it has plenty of useful information, it should be taken with the same grains of salt as any other bike brand's marketing materials.
Rant over haha. I hope you are able to find a bit more comfort and relieve your hands. Please report back with what you found useful.
Appropriate gearing helps massively and can mean the difference between going over a hill or around it.
I'm a big fan of very low gearing. I have a video in the pipeline addressing the needs for low gearing for randonneurs and long distance cyclists coming up. Sat tuned!
I conducted an informal test between two of my bikes at opposite ends of the spectrum. 1st bike, aluminum track bike brakeless with aero bars. 2nd old faithful upgraded 40 year old steel road bike. No power meters. 2 separate days, same route, same wind direction and strength. Track, milage recorded 21.9, GPS= 21.7 miles. 15.7mph average speed, 24mph max. Classic steel recorded 21.8 miles, 14.3 mph, and max speed 24 mph. Both bikes have double wrapped bar tape, and the classic has a B17. The track bike has a harsh ride and identical tire pressure. The track bike has a comfortable aero position, while the classic has deep drops, which on flat terrain are unsustainable for long usage. The track bike loses some ground in town due to brakeless. If on hilly course, the choice would be obvious. Same bike, 48x20 with freewheel and front brake on 40 mile ride northern New Jersey. I must have walked 4 miles of it with 10%+ grades. It was beyond the laws of physics ! I think I'll stay below 150k and stick to the flats. It's hard to find above 3% grades around here.
Loved hiking in Jersey when I thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail. Way more mountainous and steep than it's reputation would suggest. If you wanted to target long distances that include mountains, I hope some of my other videos could be helpful for you. Efficiency, comfort, and low gearing are all super important for those conditions. I'll be posting a 10,000km review and randonneuring setup video on my current bike in the near future which might be of interest to you. Thanks for sharing your test.
perfect videos thank you
Great video again - only just discovered your channel - brilliant stuff thanks 👍🏻
Welcome aboard! I hope it's useful for you.
I wouldn't ride on the outer space of the coastal road in the beginning of the video. We can't even call it a sidewalk. But there could be pedestrians - what could and should you do then? It's already very narrow when you are alone. Mountain bikers call such an obstacle a skinny. Diverge slightly to the right or left and you will crash. Would a car driver then pick you up and get you to a hospital and pay your medical bills and buy you a new bike and get you a new and better job? Or when you just get a flat without crashing. Sharp objects will be on the "sidewalk" rather than on the lanes. Would a car driver stop and get a fitting tube and exchange the tubes professionally? After all you only ride there to not be in the way of car drivers. They should thank you for that.
After watching this and your tires optimization video I have decided to go with a set of the GP 5000 allseason in 35cc on my Rando/gravel bike over some wider Rene Herse tires. For not RR and aero gains. Since I’ve already grandpawed it out with a redshift shock stem and the canyon leaf spring seat post I don’t really need to go wider than 35 😂
That's a great choice for a high end tire. Curious if the high grip score is noticeable in riding. I predict 32-35mm measured width (wider for the classics) will be where pro racers settle in the next few years and tires will stop growing there, with amateurs probably settling at ~35mm. Rims are finally available to aerodynamically pair with those sizes too. Farsports have 34 and 38mm wide gravel rims, and Light Bicycle offers similar widths. Big brands will surely be close behind.
Continental can overpower the competition in the cycling space with sheer human and technical resources, and economies of scale for peak performance. RH tires were solving major problems 10-15 years when no wide road tires were made, but that's no longer the case.
@@overbikedrandonneuring I think I caught a little jab at RH tire with the rebranded panaracer balloons and I think it’s fair enough I have heard quite a few people have issues with their tires and longevity. I have been a fan of Conti rubber, I have had 2 sets of the GP 4000’s on my triathlon bike and like them, I plan on upgrading to the 5000 tubeless when I wear this set out and moving up to 28cc as well pretty sure they will fit on my frame. I think your right 35 give you the flexibility to run damn low pressures when set up tubeless if wanted as well as the freedom to take it out on logging or fire roads. My wheels are 29 external and 25 internal so the aero penalty shouldn’t be too bad mated with a 35 cc tire. Thanks for your vids I’m enjoying the content a new subscriber and watching to see what’s next from you.
I think I'm gonna have to go e one of these B17 saddles a try, they seem to be highly rated by the randonneuring community and my current saddle just isn't up to very long rides.
Could be worth a shot if you ride in a very upright position. Saddles are so individual, it's hard to be certain without testing, but it's easy to sell a lightly used B17 not far below paid price. I found the B17 to be just okay over ~1 year of use. The leather surface was my favorite part, but the shape and support profile (for lack of a better term) were not great. Proponents note that leather conditioning, managing tension, and often tilting the seat nose upwards are key factors for the B17. Most folks I know who used one moved on to other saddles. I suspect nostalgia, conforming to in-group norms, and Bicycle Quarterly aesthetics play a role in their popularity.
10:14 OMG the cat - upvoted just for that lol