Does The Tone Master Super Reverb Sound Like A Vintage Super?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2021
- The new Tonemaster Super Reverb from Fender was recently released and I wanted to see how it compares to a vintage 1966 super. The Tonemaster's modeling is very convincing and its modern features make it appealing to a wide variety of players, but does it sound like an old super? Not really.
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Glad you made this video! I almost bought this amp to compare my 1964/65 Fender Super Reverb!! Love your video!!
i bet u wont be buying it :) Tomo
Tomo , you’re the man.
Love you Tomo! My daily practice routine is all your stuff.
Thanks so much Tomo!
@@RhettShull Rhett! Have you ever played a fender vibro king? How does it compare to the super reverb?
I have the Tonemaster Deluxe and love it. I got tired of all the A/B comparisons and people who say it didn't sound exactly like a vintage Deluxe. It doesn't have to. If it sounds good, it is good.
Completely agree. I have the TM Deluxe too and I think it’s PERFECT. Used at a festival gig last weekend - it does it all…
boom! you have seen the light
It's also not really supposed to. All vintage amps of the same model sound a bit different, they've all aged differently. The Tone Master amps are designed to sound like the idea of each model. They're so good.
I certainly would not kick it out of bed.
Totally agree! 👍👌 Does it sounds good? Does it feels good? I'm in!
Night and Day. That old Fender sounds incredible.
I totally agree, and I add that the ToneMaster, in comparison it sounds like....well...not incredible. :)
That old fender sounds usual, not something special.
@@PixyTech Compared to that Tonemaster it does. I have used and owned vintage Twins for many years and prefer Marshalls but the Tonemaster was a line tha looked promising - weight is all I care about at my age, the weight of the amp. D120s are pretty damn heavy to tote around.
@@kinochdotcom True! I have to drag a dolly to every gig just to play my twin. Finally just bought a Princeton with a 12inch in it. Yeah!
@@bobbystereo936 Had a bandmate who had rollers put in under his. Old JBL Greybacks. Thing weighed a ton but we would both plug into it.
Hey All, Ignazio Vagnone here from Jensen Speakers. First of all, Rhett, great video! I was waiting for this :).
I'd like to add a few of speaker information, that maybe some could find interesting... watch out for a quite high nerd level... :)
The sound of the amps in the room: Of course, the speakers play a key part in such a situation. Here we have two variants:
1) the speaker in the vintage SR are NOT Jensen. So, we're not really comparing apples to apples... and not even "vintage apples to new apples". Those speakers (CTS and Oxford) are pretty well known to have, even when new, a darker tone, with less high end and a bit more low midrange grunt, when compared to the Jensen P10R.
2) Break-in is really important for a speaker. We usually recommend 30 hours of "gig level" playing to allow the speaker to behave as designed. However, 100 hours are even better. After that break-in playing time, the moving parts (surrounds, spider, membrane) will have a bit more flexibility and compliance, resulting in an overall fatter, richer tone.
In general, I could not agree more with Rhett's comments and conclusions. The Tone Master series are NOT meant to replace the originals. They are aimed at a player who needs an amp as simple to operate as a traditional tube one, that gives him the flexibility to hit the "sweet spot" at any volume, and does not need or want to depend on a mic perfectly placed every night to get his tone to the audience. Yep, an SR is LOUD. Trying to play at the volume Rhett was playing in his studio, you'd be kicked out from most of the clubs. The power selection is what makes the amp usable in ang gig, bedroom etc. And of course, half the weight is a very welcome bonus.
Do they sound the same as a vintage one? Again Rhett nailed it. WHICH ONE? Not that one of course. Maybe another could sound much closer.
Would I buy one of those? Yep, no doubt. Easy, lightweight, dependable, updateable (via USB firmware releases). And I do remember many "old school" tone gurus at our booth at Namm, being freaked out when they discovered that the TM Deluxe and Twin they were playing, were not tube amps... :)
Hope this may be of interest!
If they're aren't meant to replace the older ones, then why can it a Super Reverb. Why not the Circuit-Verb, Uni-Verb, QuadraVerb.....??? I hate the marketing. The marketing suggests that the tone masters somehow capture some special quality of the originals abs that we should feel connected sonically to those old school legacy vibes. Well..... tone master amps and tone master pros only "look" the part. It is just a mass produced piece of piece of garbage. "OH but it is lighter in wt?!?!" Who cares?
@@johnnyking8980 I respect your point of view, but as a vintage amp fan myself, I can't overlook that: a) several thousand of gigging players do appreciate the fact that they're lighter and more reliable. b) it's called Super Reverb because that is what it actually is, even though in a non-tube version. Same form factor, same controls, same approach to tone, same speakers of the tube version in current production, and a very accurate modeling process to recreate "as-closely-as-possible" the vintage AB763 circuit and behavior. c) It's not a hand-wired tube amp, but sure is no garbage. Unless anything "not tube" is garbage. It might not be the amp for you, and that's perfectly understandable.
I think my biggest concern is dependability - when you crack the chassey open on one of these what you see is the equivalent of the circuit board in an Xbox and those things become landfill material, the vintage amp is 60 years old - will this tone master be working in even 10? That’s what I’m not sure and the reality is these products have a shelf life. If fender starts advertising that “yeah we’ll replace your circuit board if it goes down no problem, you can keep your tone master working for life!” Then I’m interested - but until that happens I think these products will be destined to be temporary.
@@JMunchen-wf2yjCalling a tube amp dependable is a huge stretch.
A tube amp is repairable, yes, but definitely not dependable. The tubes will burn out, the caps will need replacing, the pots will get scratchy etc.
The Tone Master on the other hand isn’t repairable, but is much more dependable. Everything is solid state or modelling, nothing to burn out or vary over time.
Also you’re not giving solid state and computer modelling tech nearly enough credit. The main components that wear out over time are moving components, like disc drives and hard disks. Tone Masters have neither of those.
Most solid state amps from the 80s forward still work flawlessly (without replacing tubes like a tube amp needs), and same with non-PC computer tech from the 90s onwards like old game consoles.
Tone Master amps are a great addition to Fender’s lineup.
The names make sense since they are modelling those exact tube amps, and they offer a more affordable, more dependable and lighter weight alternative to their corresponding tube amps.
I'm buying a 66 super reverb soon. One of the speakers is bad so I'm adding 2 new P10Rs. Excited to finally own some Jensens!
I’ve got the blonde TMDR and it’s an incredible amp. I assume Fender didn’t replicate the “mojo” as we know it… rattles, leaks, drifts, hums… but instead opted to replicate what an old Super would have sounded like when it was new. Sounds really good to me. 🤷♂️
That's where these videos are kinda worthless. Treat this amp like a standalone unit and simply how it sounds. Compare/shompare.
they can have the rattle
I have the blonde dlx version... they modeled these amps after the re-issue versions probably recorded a bunch of them before they got the right one... will it sound like a vintage no... will it sound like a re-issue? Yes it is missing that 3d open sound but it would be worth noted that alot of these video reviews they are not using the same speakers in the amp when comparing... i have seen one video and that was that pedal show and to me when going into the same speaker the reissue and tone master sounded the same...
Very interesting results. The both sound really good, and very different.
A useful addition to this test would be to run the Tone Master through the vintage Jensens and the vintage Super through the new Jensens...
Also, nice shoes, Rhett.
Amen to that. I have a well broken-in Weber Alnico 12 that was originally in my 5E3 Tweed Deluxe. It really wakes up either version of the TMDR, and is much better for my purposes than the Celestion in the Cream version.
I just picked up a Tonemaster Super today. I’m loving it. It’s one badass, loud, versatile amp, a mean clean machine…
cringe. take it back while you still can
Why take it back? It works sounds good and he's happy with it.
@@peterdadswell7998 Exactly. Those types of comments usually come from diehard digital haters who never played one of these amps. I am not a modeling fan, but a real Super is impractical for me and thus no option.
@@nilsx3020 I really dislike answers like that. Thanks for your comment
@@nilsx3020 Imagine white knighting for digital amps. Fucking CRINGE bro. How many levels of cope are you on to delude yourself that this is a good amp?
Rhett with the Pink Floyd intro 😩
These new vs vintage videos are great, but for the reasons you outlined in the last couple minutes of your video, it'd be nice hear comparisons of a Tonemaster vs a brand new tube Super and maybe other Fender/Fender style amps in the same approximate price range as the Tonemaster.
Yep, not blaming Rhett here because this was interesting too, but I think the bigger test is vs. a new Super. That's probably the debate most people are going to have. It's the one I've thought about because the tonemasters offer a lot of advantages.
Us old timers are getting issues hauling the 'original' Deluxe/Twin amps around......the Tone Master makes us old timers last a little longer if hauling it to a gig ;-))
@@tomk1tl39 Amen. I had a rack with a tube amp and a 4x12 boogie cabinet. only our bass player could lift the cabinet by himself lol. it was brutal but it sounded sweet : )
As much as anybody can tell from a video here are my thoughts. I preferred the sound of the vintage Super mic'd up to all other variations. Seemed to my ears more lively and dynamic. Narrow spectrum, but the right spectrum. The ToneMaster sounds good. I'm all for modelers as long as they sound good, not necessarily exactly like what they copy. The TM will get the job done.
A lot of modern units can get you there. Just because a vintage amp is a known for its quality, dynamic, and mid-high in presence (freq) loved sound. It is not make a TM overly inferior.
@@Tone2town the tone masters are inherently inferior. Digital amps are always shit, telling yourself any different is a cope
@@gordonhuskin7337 I get what you are saying, but you have to think about the other side of it also.... The great sounding rare vintage / analog guitar amplifier is then mic'd up through a (maybe) analog pre-amp and then played back through a digitally processed PA that uses digital amps to recreate that sound for live venues. Same goes for a studio, when its recorded into a DAW, and then played back via digital means (CD, Streaming) over a digital amp played back to the user.
@@ejpn that's one hell of a cope
@@ejpn no 50's or 60s recordings sound digital despite being played back on a digital service (cd or streaming)
Missing that warmth of the original. Can really hear it with the Strat. I'm sure new speakers vs nicely broken in vintage ones plays a role in that too
More than anything being honest, you could plug different amps of the same kind through the same cab and think they all sound the same Or very similar
Yeah... I remember an amp shootout that Guitar Player did in the early '90s and Fender's '65 Twin Reverb reissue took part in that. They also happened to have a '64 Twin Reverb on hand. They had mentioned that the reissue sounded a bit stiff compared to the original. They decided to do an experiment and plug the speakers from the original into the reissue and voila, the reissue sounded fuller and much closer to the original. With a full circuit burn in one would have been hard pressed to tell one from the other. Could be a worthwhile test with the '66 vs. the Tone Master
a part from what mr Alvaro Rui Ruiz already said, on a side note, the "warmth" also comes from super broken in 60y\o speakers
Great video - I’ve got the Deluxe Reverb and Twin Tonemasters - and LOVE them. Super Reverb sounded great in your video. And you’re right - they’re THE best working guitarist amps. We just did a small festival gig last weekend and I used the Deluxe - just ran direct out to soundboard and didn’t have to worry about volume. I don’t miss my tube amps in the slightest (or the hassle of maintaining them) - I’m actually ditching my Orange Rocker 32 and Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. For gigging and recording my Tonemasters give me everything I need.
What does your wife's son think of your tonemasters? Or her boyfriend for that matter...
@@gordonhuskin7337 lmao I have literally never in my life seen somebody get so fucking bent over somebody else's choice of guitar amp of all things
@@algorithm1193 your wife is busy being bent over
@@algorithm1193 haha very true. I have fender and marshall tube amps and also have a tonemaster and Katatan Mk II and play the Solid State WAY more than the tubes!
Anybody else catch a glimpse of those sick Jordans that Rhett was wearing? No? Just me?
that got my attention to
Yup...only because, I have a bunch of young boys that have schooled me on all things Nike👍
My experience with the tonemasters vs the oks Tube ones is that the tm’s speakers need to be played in. Once thats done its freakin hard to notice any difference. Peace out from sweden. Good content as always Rhett
That piece you played at about 5:30 with the slide. Dang so beautiful. I always enjoy your playing Rhett thanks for the video
By the way, your reviews are so detailed, so accurate, so well done. Congrats!!!!
I feel like the tone master is almost "clearer" sounding. Which is great if that's what you're looking for. I feel personally it takes a lot of character out of the sound. The vintage one to my ears has such a beautiful sonic quality.
im gonna be devils advocate and say that vintage amps sound better with fresh speakers. 50 years is way past any speakers life. not always but speakers werent designed for 50 years of use
@@aeoteroa818 Yeah, at first I actually preferred the cleaner, simpler sound of the Tone Master over the vintage amp. Then when he switched to direct recording, by-passing the speakers, I thought the vintage amp sounded better.
I prefer the darker sound personally, but in a lot of blind shootouts the tonemasters win a lot of the times for exactly that reason. It sounds clearer and cleaner. As you said, if that's what you want then it actually can be better. I think most people looking at those kinds of amps are in the bluesy territory where you may not necessarily want that and would prefer the muddier but warmer vintage sound.
I mean, is anyone surprised that a brand new modeling amp, as good as the Fender Tonemasters are, didn't win against a 50 year old amp that had been modded? But they both sounded good, and I might be able to afford to actually buy the Tonemaster. But yeah, that old Super sounded amazing.
Your right. No way is this a fair comparison
I honestly wonder what the stats would be on people listening blind to it. How many just decide that the old Super sounds better cause its old?
Though there's also the bias that comes from being taught to love 65 year old amplifiers as better sounding. John Mayer made them come up with pickups for his signature guitar that emulate the sound of single coils that have lost whatever you lost after sitting around for a half century. So what do you love? The original sound or do you love the original sound that's aged? Can you be sure you even would love it if you weren't told by a generation of gear snobs that that's the sound? People were obsessed with 59 Les Pauls when they weren't even 10 years old! The pickups sure weren't aged at that point.
The only real comparison to be making is between a brand new real tube SR RI and the Tonemaster. Shit, you could have a run off between 5 SRs from 66' and still have people arguing which sounded best. Bonamassa has a video where he has 4 or 5 Tweed Bandmasters lined up and plays through them all. They all sound different. Some wouldn't sound as good as a modern reissue for sure.
I thought the Tonemaster was better.
No, you can buy a vintage silverface super reverb for substantially less money than a brand new tonemaster super reverb. Imagine spending 1000 on a solid stage digital amp, pretty cringe bro
@@charliedavidarnott1537 so did your wifes boyfriend
I'm so glad they did this. i even emailed them after they released the twin and deluxe about making a super because that was the amp i fell in love with.
I dig the new generation of digital amps. 1st, they are very versatile, and 2nd, they give us a huge tone at low volume, which means the world to me. In that series, I just bought a Yamaha THR30II, a desk amp, and I'm flabbergasted about how good the sound of this amp is.
Nice vid Rhett!
Same here! Started with a thr 10 c and I m blasted
15 years ago this was science fiction
Just ordered my Tonemaster super reverb .
Big up Rhett 🎸
Those yamaha's do sound great
Are those thr10/30 any good..thinking of buying 1 for my daughter ??
@@josefromanov562 I still like mine!
Great video! A brilliant comparison between the two amps. The weight difference is a huge selling point for the modeling amp especially if you are going to go gigging with it. However, for my taste I have to go with the tube amp. I love the sound of a Super Reverb so much that I decided to buy a kit and build one. I went with a separate head and cabinet combination because of the weight issue and longevity of the components. I hope to have the build finished in a couple of weeks.
I definitely prefer the tone of the tube amp. I also prefer the mic'ed up sound for both. Great playing in all the examples Rhett! Really enjoyed the video, thanks!
Love the way you did this. Production quality is superb.
You definitely have one of the "best" guitar tones on TH-cam. Really enjoy all your videos.
The old one sounds fuller, richer and with a little more "dirt" that does magic. No way, I love tube amps!
Yeah..I agree...The Tonemaster sounds good...but it cant touch the original
@@larrybstreetfish5852 Interesting, is it possible to EQ the tone master closer to the vintage amp?
It has worn out speakers, which in a rational world would be immediately replaced with something actually working. (That most probably already happened with all those magical original caps and tubes. At least I hope so.)
@@bakters surely playing through worn speakers helps so much to reach a better tone, but the original amp sounds fuller and wider on its own. It's a matter of frequencies and circuitry, the response is quite different 😊
@@bartlettpsjNot sure; I am just basing my opinion off the video...I have heard tremendous things about the new Tone Masters, but there is just something magical about those vintage amps
I’ve bought one. It’s glorious, it still can get there, I just boost the miss pretty heavily and hit it with a boost with the amp on 6, hits that vintage tone pretty good. Love all the features, the old one being probably more than double the price, being twice as heavy, not being able to be quiet is huge for me, as I live in suburbia.
I have to say that I look forward to your weekly videos more than any other on TH-cam @Rhett Shull
That intro sound is fenomenal
No kidding. Just... gorgeous!
The vintage is like you know a person in person.
The modelling is like you know him through Instagram.
It's just how we work now.
There are legit pro amp techs who couldn't tell that they were digital models. Nobody would ever know any difference without A/B'ing them. And even then, most people don't EQ them right.
Also hardly any tube state Super Reverbs sound alike. Tubes, speakers and many other things make them all sound slightly different. So this is a bit of a goofy analogy.
@@SixStringSlinger1 Facts. Put the tone master in the mix, and Lin's gonna be asking for that IG lol.
@@trevor4533 exactly lol
We like to think we can tell the difference because of that dirty digital word, but we can't, so we pretend we can.
Great comparison Rhett, really informative. I haven't tried the Tone Master amp yet, But I'd really like to give it a try. It looks really good for a digital, solid state amp. In general I really like what Fender has been doing with their newer instruments and amps in recent years. It seems like they're trying to offer more options for different players who might want slightly different things, and adding new features to their instruments and amps that are updated and modern, but sensible and practical. The kind of new features that professional musician would actually want.
Great video and you made both amps sound incredible in different ways. Would be happy to have either.
Your back will thank you every day for the Tone Master! Great comparison Rhett. 🤘🏻🎸👍🤘🏻🎸👍
Love hearing the Floyd at the beginning.
Rhett’s disclaimer off the bat tells us this amp has been modified so it really is apples and oranges. He is really right they sound great. However, tube amp lovers will never truly “love” a SS amp.
Old school ss amps are fine. Digital ss amps masquerading as classic valve amps are another story. Bullshit marketing of a vastly inferior product
Arrogance at its best......
Yea I pretty much checked out after he described how the 66 had been modded. I mean what’s the point really.
Rhett, you are a legend. Thanks for all of the amazing videos. I will be ordering your courses in a few months when im back at work, and im itching to get back into playing, which is partially your fault :) be well, lots of love from Denmark.
Edit: nice kicks too!
Just purchased the fretboard fundamentals course! Looking forward to diving in. Great video as usual
Vintage sounds more bluesy Darker. Tone Master sounds More headroom Rock. I dig both of them
Definitely. One thing people don't realize is that a class d amplifier cost 10 dollars pre-assembled, and those are like 100 watts. The price is kinda crazy on the modeler. When I mean amp I mean the actual amplifier for the signal. It only amplifies your sound doesn't alter it in anyway. The preamp is what makes it musical. That's like another 20 bucks and some soldering.
@@gavinw5469 I keep seeing you around guitar TH-cam! The modules are a little pricier than that, about $50 at quantity 50 for ICEPower 200AS1 from a distributor, so I'd guess Fender pays at least $20-30 a board direct from ICEPower. The amp's input receptacle specifies 450W and they're using a 200W module for the "45W" output, which I'm sure is marketing voodoo because everyone knows "tube watts" are louder.
You're right though, we have to view these amps as a software product - it's a really expensive license for an amp model. I doubt there are significant internal differences besides generic design iteration between Tone Master products. The price just reflects the brand, the perceived legitimacy of the amp modeling, and the convenience of combining the amp/cab with the model for traditional guitarists looking for that package. Besides that it's basically a scam if you consider the kind of speaker hardware JBL and other pro audio manufacturers will sell you at half the price, leaving plenty in the bank to buy a badass digital modeling pedal or other equivalent.
@@maudiojunky I totally agree.
I think the new Tone Master sounds beautiful! I’ve really liked the Super Reverb for a while, and I think I would spring for one of these over the vintage. The vintage ones are extremely difficult to find and almost prohibitively expensive in Australia, but the Tone Master would be a great stand-in.
What’s so cool about this is getting a great approximation of the Super without the inconsistencies that tubes and their aging leave you with or the need for a power conditioner! For me, I like the brightness and openness of the TM as well!
When you were using a lot of reverb and playing arpeggios the '66 sounded very muddy. The Tonemaster had a lot of clarity to the definition of your notes. Maybe it's sacrilege but I like the clarity of the Tonemaster better, though there are some times that the warmth of the vintage '66 would be needed.
your wifes boyfriend likes the tonemaster as well
Came here to say this. The Tonemaster sounded great. I really liked the clarity and more rounded bottom end.
@@bremsnix was it hard telling your parents you are gay?
@@gordonhuskin7337 What on gods green earth is wrong with you? First of all there is nothing wrong with being gay, so why are you insinuating it'd be bad if I were gay? Second of all, we're talking about guitar gear which, last I checked, is one of the most subjective topics ever. So why would you go off like this on someone who just prefers something you don't like?
@@bremsnix SAD! Bro, they diddle children. It's how they reproduce. Wtf. It's also a sin against God. Digital amps are cringe and no amount of cope will ever change that. They are objectively shitty amps. If you like cringe shitty tone, good for you. Guitars are not digital.
Both amps sounds awesome , but there’s just something about the vintage 66 just has a time about it that’s just something special!!!
Ok can we just take a second to thank Rhett for this high-quality, informative comparisons of these two amps? So nice to hear someone actually capture great tones on both amps without a bunch of screwing around on blues riffs. There are very few TH-cam working guitarists that go as in-depth on amp comparisons as Rhett , it’s really beneficial for people who may be in the market for a Super Reverb! Thanks for what you do, been a subscriber for a while and I’ll be sticking around fosho 👌🏼
Loved your playing. Great demo.
Great comparison man. Thanks for the vid. BTW, the production quality of this vid (lighting, etc) is excellent!
I love the way the tube amp has a handle. As if anyone can actually lift it.
I used to would lugg around a 65 fender twin… it can be done 👍🏻😎
I had a Princeton Reverb from the 70s that I thought sounded pretty good. Then I heard another Princeton from the same era and I was floored how different they sounded. The 20% tolerance drift is real.
Don't forget, that 20% tolerance is when they were new. Who knows what it is now.
I’m curious: what do you mean by ”20% tolerance drift”?
@@ArtichokeAce the parts used for each amp will not be consistent. Due to the drift in values no two amps will sound exactly the same.
@@DoctorMcFarlandStudios ok, then I understand. But where does the 20% figure come from? What varies 20%, the sound, the components, some parameter?
@@ArtichokeAce when you measure the parts used there can be a 20% difference from the original spec. So if its supposed to be 10 but measures 10% below or 10% above then that is a 20% drift and can totally change the sound of the amp.
Great comparison of both amps. I would love to hear them together; I think they would compliment one another.
My '74 Super fell somewhere between the two...
Great timely review Rhett - actually looking to A/B these myself & pick one.
The TM sounds like the sound you'd be trying to get in the studio with the vintage. The TM sounds like an EQ curve has been applied to take out some mids. I prefer the TM sound because on my 94 Twin Amp that is exactly what I'm trying to do all the time. I had a Concert 4x10 love it but way too heavy, I'll be getting this amp for sure.
Thats the neomydium mid scoop
I’ve played one of the tone masters at my local shop several times. Great amps! Sounds great with a Gretsch or a Tele.
A ‘65 Super was the love of my life when I was stationed in Belgium in the early 70’s. Let’s face it, 1971 was an incredible year for music…period. That music, this amp, and my 1965 Framus Strato Super in Sunburst ate up any spare time I had. I had purchased the guitar from a PX in Munich as a kid living in Paris. It had these monster single coil pickups that must have weighed a pound or so each. I think I paid about 56 bux and change for the guitar ($800 on Reverb now). Unbelievable sound! So easy to match tones with the music of the times. I was devastated when I had to give up the amp before rotating home because of its weight. The other day I had called Brian Meader, the sales manager at Guitar Sanctuary area about a pair of Eventide H9s I was ordering when the topic of a new low wattage amp for home practice and small room/club gigs came up. The conversation rolled around to Fender Tone Masters, a product they wouldn’t normally handle, Mesa Boogie’s being more their style. He said the TM line had blown him away as it had their pro staff and well known recording artist customers. He mentioned this model…I about pulled out the credit card then and there but the expenditures for the H9’s put a (short lived) damper on that insanity….until I saw Fenders promo video. I subsequently started digging around hoping you had done a comparison. Should have known Rhett, you had, and it’s recent to boot! Long and short of it? I’m buying one. It’s a perfect pedal platform which fits right in with my equipment direction. Of course the pedal board will now have to wait a bit (Btw thanks for that vid with Rick Beato) but it’s simply a reprioritization and not throwing the baby out with the bath water. Still have the Framus. That I could get on the C130 flight home, the 70# Super Reverb? Not a chance. Some lucky Spec 4 got a deal on it..I hope its still giving someone the same joy it gave me..I'm looking forward to a reunion of the two. Oh and Rhett? My neighbors in Belgium definitely heard that '65 original...
Thanks again Rhett. That was some good tech knowledge passed on.
I appreciate it.
The whole issue of speakers can't be emphasized enough. Even in just the last year, my DSL combo has opened up to have a whole new world of tone that was missing when I first bought it. I can't wait to hear it in five or ten years time.
Did you just set the knobs the same on both amps for this comparison? I would have liked for you to have tried dialing in the Tonemaster to see how close you could actually make it sound to the vintage amp. Perhaps boosting the mids & cutting the bass? Thank you for the video. If you ever considered doing a follow up video,I would sure be interested. Thanks
Rhett is making the best videos. I watch that pedal show, JHS, Andertons, etc, etc,. While watching his vides, it is easy to realize that you are receiving advice from a professional musician. His recordings are superb too.
Rhett, you have a good speaking voice. It reminds me of Michael Stanley who was a very popular recording artist from the Cleveland, Ohio area.
Hard to match true vintage tones! Good stuff Rhett!!
Just pre-ordered your fretboard course. If you have any connections with Fender, ask them to make a Tone Master version of the 64 Vibroverb with a Cesar Diaz Mod Switch. 😁
That would be killer!!!
“They actually don’t even know I’m making this video.” 🤣🤣🤣 They’d be so surprised and grateful that you featured their product.
Enjoyed the video bud, you buy what you can afford and what you like to hear. Respect and stay healthy all
I wish he would have done the EQ tweaking on the ToneMaster he spoke about to approximate the vintage sound. That would have been helpful. Personally, I would buy the ToneMaster for the reliability, power scaling and ease of transport, and use a vintage unit in a studio where it isn't being jostled around every weekend when you have a gig. Also, he's right - they're two different things entirely, and just because something is old doesn't make it good. Nostalgia plays a big part in it too.
No EQ will take you to a vintage SR, he can try untill next week... it's not only tone it's also the feel and behaviour you can not mimic.
I'd likewise want to hear the two dialed as close as possible, but if you have power scaling, compromises have to be made with the speakers-the one component that has the greatest effect on the tone. Given the design goals of the Tonemaster series, they simply cannot sound like the originals. Maybe you get some of the flavor of the breakup, but the breathy sustain of the tube originals remains unmatched.
Well done. I expected nostalgia bias, but instead got a well thought out and logical comparison. I see all the effort put into doing this video.
I still find it ironic how decades ago the guitarists want more fidelity and less noise and in present day so many want the reverse. In '78, Steely Dan paid 150K for a studio engineer to invent a drum machine for them, and that puts a weird perspective on things. The gear and methods that hamstringed musicians decades ago is now highly sought after.
Rhett, great video... and great showcasing why the tube vintage is still the best option. You can't digitize soul.
Great video Rhett…I played a ‘69 Super Reverb on the road for over ten years in the 70’s and 80’s…absolutely loved it! Several years ago I had the hankering to get another SR and bought a ‘66…I never got close to the sound that I got from my original…yes, Fenders Amps varied a lot with different examples. I think the advantages of the Tone Master SR over an original make the little extra coaxing needed for the tone worth it hands down.
Also I’m a little confused as to how an amp that’s got an added board can be labeled as Totally Stock…but, great video none the less!
I'd like to see a live gig with two equally talented guitarists, one using the valve amp, the other its digital doppelganger. That might help to settle the matter.
I would definitely go with the tone master. Maintaining tube amps isn’t the worst thing ever, but getting rid of that (and avoiding having it blow up live) would be so nice. That’s the reason I love my JC 40 so much
Digital amps fail too
New studio is looking great Rhett
That intro... I am in love
you’re such an inspiration dude! really aspire to be like you someday keep it up
That 66 sounds like a particularly amazing amp. I’m guessing some of the mojo comes from the Two Rock mods. A more fair comparison might be a more recent reissue of the super up against the TM. I can see why you’d regret not buying that 66. Love it.
I’m a newer player and recently bought a used Tone Master Deluxe for 600 off Craig’s. I dig that thing. Perfect for newbie. I’m hoping to find a sweet lil used Helix LT pretty soon too, to go with it. Great videos. Thanks very much.
The clarity of the Tone Master in some parts reminded me a lot of a Hiwatt, which is a cool thing in its own right. As you said, it's not necessarily a case of "better" but of "different". Thanks for this!
No. Nothing like a hiwatt, and no, the digital solid state abomination against the real thing is a piece of crap and not just different
Great job, Rhett. I’ve been playing a Super Reverb since 1965. To me, it’s one of the best amps of all time. The Tonemaster is a great tool for today’s players. Light weight, integral attenuator, hopefully reliable and a sound similar to a real tube powered Super Reverb. What more could one ask for?
the tone master sucks. it sounds like ass, and the weight difference is negligible. supers aren't heavy to begin with, they're just akward because of their size with the 4x10s and the tonemasters are just as awkward to carry. you can get an actual vintage point to point handwired silverface super for much less than a brand new tone master.
Long lasting... I'd like to see some videos to see how Tonemasters are holding up
I have the TM Deluxe, Twin, and Super. I think that I like the Deluxe the best. It breaks up quicker around 5 on volume for me where the Twin and Super feel cleaner at a higher volume number. In retrospect, I think I should have gotten two TM Deluxes for a stereo rig instead of all three amps.
I loved your slide work. Reminds me of the Crossroads movie soundtrack. Great blues with your own twist. I would like to get a recording if you offer any.
Thanks for the review!
When the vintage amp was new I'm sure it sounded different than it does now. Over time the values of some components are known to change which in turn alters the tone of the amp. Even if the components are replaced to spec, they are usually not replace with original in spec parts, because the parts may no longer be obtainable. So... yes I'm sure it sounds different now.
It’s really amazing to see much speakers effect Tone? In the past, I always just looked at the amp. Now, I really pay attention to what speaker and cabinet the amp is driving. The clearer comparison of these two amps is at the end where they are both running the same modeling program.
First, I feel like the speakers in the ‘66 are a little tired? I felt like the ‘66 was more “alive” with the modeling? The ‘66 just felt chewy, and warm, where the Tone Master felt sterile and cold…in comparison.
Personally, I like the ‘66 better, but it’s hard to really tell without winding them up a bit more?
Rhett, I think that may be my old amp, lost track of it back in '85 here in Atlanta. The speakers were reconed when Brendan O'brien was using it while he played with Pranks. It sure looks like it. I had it for 10 years and the damage to the grill was there when I bought it.
If you hear it side by side, its hard to not love the mid range on the 66💜🤘
I'd love to hear a comparison between different tube versions, get an idea how much variation is present before comparing the digital version.
Great A/B video and explanation of the pros and cons. The new amp sounds really good and is many times more practical, but the vintage one sounds magical. :)
Great video man, both amps soumd amazing...that fuzz pedal is sick!
I have a feeling this is a case of the “Mojo”. The vintage Super sounds so, so awesome, but it doesn’t really sound like what I think a super sounds like in my head. The Tone Master absolutely does. I prefer the sound of the vintage super, but I don’t think it sounds more like a super reverb should.
He does say that the original Super has been modified. He says it doesn’t change the tonality but only gain/headroom- in my opinion (as well as many others), you change anything in the gain structure of any amp, you are going to change the tone.
lmao bro, the tone master sounds NOTHING like a super reverb. it sounds like a digital piece of shit
@Far Stox wheeeeeeww what an absolute COPE! It absolutely does not lmao
I’m diggin this Tonemaster, I gotta say!
didn't know you were gay!
I loved this video. Thanks for sharing
Great video Rhett, I'm looking for another amp and this is in the running.😎
Could it be possible to run the “head” of the 66 into the speakers of the Tone Master?
yes and he could have ran the tone master into the load box too, but doesnt want to fiddle with 2 whole wires
@@Healcraft yep, the speaker/cab component definitely contributed a ton to the differences.
Not without rewiring the speakers… As he says in the video, there is no speaker jack on the Tone Master. And you can’t run the Tone Master into the load box because it only has a line out.
I thought he used the torpedo for both amps. Even without a speaker out you just disconnect the wires to the speakers and alligator clamp some lamp cord to each end so you can isolate the cab from the amps. That old super had the chewiest midrange ever. Would have been really cool to try and eq each amp to sound like the other too. Would’ve liked to have heard that. Supers do vary a lot but the silver face ones sound good too. The whole “these speakers are hifi up to 8 or 12k” thing is totally conjecture and had no data to back it up. Rhett’s a really great player but I wish he hadn’t have said that without evidence.
@@80svoiceman16 probably just a matter of brand new speakers not broken in, i had that feeling on a 68 custom vibro champ until after a week
The tone master is a great amp but I wouldn't use it if I were trying to sound like the original. It still sounds great tho. Love the J's Rhett!!!
Agreed. And agree on the Js as well. Black jeans with the Jordans is a great look for Rhett. I was thinking man, he's bringing the sauce with that and the playing haha
I love this video!! Excellent and tasteful playing, and those Novos sound fantastic through this!! Great shootout!! Weighed it too by the way... came out to 62 pounds!
I’m definitely going to be buying a Tone Master Super Reverb. Thanks for the review.
I’m still waiting for the tweed tone masters
God no. Fender stop this nonsense!
If it doesn't have to look like the original ones you might want to check out Quilter amps.
I think that you should check Quilter amps, they sound great, the only thing that i recommend is swapping the stock speaker (they are quite sibilant) and put it one that sound more vintage, like some of the Eminence and Weber speakers.
It does not but it still sounds great.
I can visibly see you enjoying the Vintage 64 more!
Fab video buddy, Any chance you could tell me what effects you used for the Floyd sound/tone cus it sounded awesome
both has own "best side" sound. vintage has rich warm and tone master has bright
I've got two mid-60's Bandmasters, and I have yet to find a modern mass production Fender amp that sounds similar. I don't think there's "magic" in them, but the construction and components are different enough from the modern Tonemaster ones to make a difference. New ones aren't "bad" but they just really aren't the same.
Straight up the Tone master sounded more compressed. Anyone else?
I love the super reverb. They are such great amps. I have a 4x10 Kustom Tuck and Roll which is rad but doesn't do all that I want. I hope that the used resale on the tone masters is good
Splitting hairs, as a vintage Amp owner, you were spot on as far as what thought. I listened with very high end ear buds. They both are good. For me, Tubes rule just about every time. But the modeling Amps are pretty darn good.
Rhett nice honest review.
The old one sounds like an amp should sound. Not sure how else to explain that. The tone master sounds good clean but doesn't sound great driven, imo
It can be adjusted to sound a variety of ways. Head to head with same eq they are miles apart.