I believe that a train line is only as good as it treats its lowest-fare passengers. A bus ride should never be superior to a train ride - the CS should be embarrassed by this video. And thank you for reviewing a trip in coach class, something that most travel vloggers have no interest in. This makes your review all the more valuable and honest!
again, this is all dependent on the worth of the ticket.... it is not luxury (which for its 70 quid it should well aim to be, mind you)... however if we take it that this is actually coach class (it would be overprized by a margin, but) the service is fairly reasonable... I mean, this is visually the comfort level between first & second class for many other types of trains. also, whilst I do totally love these reviews you have to allow for the personal crankiness of this particular author (which is an artistic & stylistic choice as much as anything else) when judging against the makers of a product. on merit alone, I can see some who would go for this over any (standard) coach style bus... more so, there are those who would find it embarrassing that anyone could bring low something "so elegantly made" & "so full of Scottish heritage," as to compare it to a generic bus cooperation. so, whilst the review is fair and well done, it is really a matter of opinion.
@@stanislavkostarnov2157 I agree that I'd always like to take a train before a bus, but there *should* be some kind of notable improvement on trains...
Back in the 70s I was a student, returning from a Geology field trip in Scotland, and I used a cheap slow night train from Glasgow Central to London Kings Cross, departing at about 2300, arriving at about 0700 via Edinburgh and the ECML route. It had old compartment stock, and on the night I used it, had few passengers, so I had a compartment to myself. I took my boots off, made a pillow of my rucksack, covered myself with my coat and settled down to sleep across the 3 bench seats after lifting the armrests. I could even turn off the lights and pull the blinds down on both sides. But getting to sleep was hard because the old coaches and diesel engine were just so noisy. I slept fitfully and there were some long stops, such as at Grantham. But we got there, and I took the tube to Putney Bridge and the 85 bus home to Kingston, then went to bed for the rest of the morning.
I too preferred the smaller compartments of the 1970s' trains, which didn't seem half as crowded as today. I can only sympathize with the guy who endured a 1-hour journey from N7 to Euston, which is 2.6 miles and should take 12 minutes by car.
I did the seated coach when they still had the older rolling stock, that was a heck of a lot more comfortable than what's being offered now. I always book the room now whenever I use the sleeper.
Yes, because the old Mark 3 Seated Coach was a former First Class carriage with comfortable 2+1 seating across the aisle! Since Scotrail was Privatised in 1997 the cost of overnight Sleeper travel has gone through the roof, whilst the benefits have been systematically reduced!
Absolutely incredible that those gorgeous posters aren't available to buy in print format! Who on earth is in charge of their marketing dept? Superb video as always.
honestely, if booked in advance or even last minute if its out of season. With a railcard its only £33 one way. I wonder if it was overhauled or changed since then?
The prices are crazy , I went up/ back from London to Inverness just before lockdown and even with my Senior rail card the fare was well over £400 in a club room , fortunately, the service was still suffering from teething problems with the new stock, because of a five hour delay in arriving I got half my fare back . I wonder why they didn’t fit aircraft premium economy seats in the seating carriages, they are fairly comfortable for a short overnight trip, I wouldn’t think they would take up a great deal more room , they would certainly be more akin to the £70 you paid .
@@xr6lad , I totally agree but it was a bucket list trip , I really enjoyed my weekend in wet and cold Inverness and arrived back in Euston Monday morning and went directly to work 👍
@@andrewstorm8240 Why is it that when people gloat about cheap air fares, they never factor in the costs of getting to/from the airport? Young people are the worst at this, phoning mum and saying "I've booked a cheap flight to (somehwere), can you come and pick me up? Meaning the parents have to pay for a long drive to and from the "cheap" flight destination.
Wish I'd seen this video sooner, travelled on the Lowlander between GLC and EUS a few days ago and it was horrific. Totally agree with everything you've pointed out. Will stick to Megabus if travelling overnight in future
Matter of opinion,but if you want to put your safety at risk by travelling on an overnight bus,go ahead. There are TOO many dodgy characters that travel on those overnight coaches.
In 1989-1992 I used to go to Euston from Glasgow regularly once a month but I always got a berth to sleep, it was very comfortable with good bed and a free whisky at night.
Have done the seated sleeper twice, once got a double seat to myself so was able to stretch out but the second time it was a full journey and it was, as you say, exceptionally uncomfortable.
As a highland boy whose father worked in London, I spent many nights on the old sleeper in the 50s and 60s and slept very well. I took the newer one in 2000 with my wife for a trip home , as we then lived in London. Despite the amazing crew providing us with the adjoining empty cabin free of charge, so we wouldn’t be so cramped, I slept very badly- if at all. The old steam train of the 50s gave a much smoother ride.
I have found the seating on modern trains in Britain to be extremely rock hard, uncomfortable and cramped. It doesn’t matter if it’s a commuter train or an inter city. They all seem to be in competition to create to most uncomfortable journey for the paying customer. Another observation is how quickly they become worn and tatty. The fixture, fittings and fabrics seems to made of the cheapest materials know to man. Those carriages have only been in service in 2019 and spent the best part of two years not being used. I shudder to think what this service will look like in six months time.
Most new railing stock seems to be using seats made by a Spanish company, the name escapes me, but your right the comfort and quality is appalling. Seems like they just buy the cheapest possible. Tho I believe the seats on the new operator Lumo and the refurbished pendolinos are a good bit better. Apparently these seats are made in Scotland
It's a race to cram as many seats in as possible, with as little regard for the comfort of passengers or practicality. They just want headline figures so they can say "Our new trains have X amount of extra seats".
@@izzieb I wouldn’t class myself as an expert but I’ve been working on the railway in the south western area, locally and only really been around 3 services but I can say for a fact, Thameslink is the worst and yes, they literally have their train designs to cram as many people as possible. I’ve been on them I think only 2-3 times in my life and I absolutely hated it. They also seem to attract some horrible passengers 😂 I frequently commute to London via Southern, and that’s only an hour journey but towards the end on occasion I find it very uncomfortable- not to mention the one time I “treated” myself to their First Class. Not sure why I even bothered paying the £10 extra for a bit of cloth over the head rest. Same standard seats, they’re not separated with any physical barriers/doors, no extra leg room, no charging ports etc and let’s face it, half the people on these commuter services in First Class don’t even pay for it.
I started travelling by train for fun in the 1970's, and I agree wholeheartedly with your comment. The Ryanair principle seems to be controlling the Department of Transport in terms of their train acquisition policy. In the 70's a train ride from Leeds (where I lived then) to Cornwall was a pleasure - now the Cross Country Voyagers are a disaster to be avoided. That's why the flights from Glasgow to Bristol are always sold out! The Department of Transport actively encourage domestic air travel by providing cramped horrible slow rail alternatives.
If you're talking about the "Ironing board" seats on class 385,156, 377 etc then you're right... even though I've never sat in them yet, a guy told me he actually prefers them!
“Some TH-camrs do toilet tours….I’m not one of them… you’ll just have to use your imagination”. Perfect. BTW …. I am totally convinced at this point that frequent mass transit travellers should invest in a quality memory gel foam cushion for the old “derrière” since carriage seating can be downright hard or less than clean. Cheers 🇨🇦
@@JoJo-yt1ys VIA RAIL is Canada’s passenger rail company. The “rolling stock” is a refurbished fleet of UK passenger carriages from say the 1990s or so. They had to be refitted to meet the challenges of our gruelling winters. Passenger rail service is not among Canada’s priorities simply because we have a low density population distribution…. enormous land mass. Canada has one viable train route which we call the Quebec-Windsor corridor along which millions of people reside. This profitable circuit will be the location of high speed rail service in the future. Hope this was helpful. Cheers 🥂 🇨🇦
Travelled on the all seater nightrider services back in the 1980s; full rake of 1st class mk2 air con stock, nice comfy seats. Coaches didn’t rattle. Headrests and proper cushioned seats not just thin fabric on hardboard. What a backwards step in service. I bet whomever signed this off in Caledonian sleepers corporate headquarters as the quality and specification of their new stock has had a pay rise and promotion since then.
Same here. Inverness to London all the way on a MK2E/F- one of two attached to the back of the Highland Sleeper. Nice big, padded seats that you could sleep in. If these seats he mentions are anything like the modern DfT spec ones found in the awful railbuses they're building now then I wouldn't want to travel in it either.
I did that too, it was an absolute nightmare. The seats weren’t bad being as you say ex-First Class stock but I didn’t get a wink of sleep. The lights were too bright and the train stopped at every station possible on the way. And that was a lot of stations. Kirkconnel anyone? Urgh, it still sends shivers up my spine thinking about it.
I’ve noticed that rail services in Scotland are often really dirty. On one occasion took the popular tourist train from Fort William to Mallaig and was embarrassed at the state of the carriages. Tourists from all over Europe were on that train. It hadn’t been cleaned at Glasgow. Commuter trains seem left to rot. It really isn’t fair.
Brilliant summary. I have used the sleeper a few times, always had a cabin, which is tight for room. The journey is noisy and arrival times can be a bit of a hit or miss. I would not use the sleeper ever again even if my life depended on it.
My wife and I used the Sleeper to do the West Highland Way around easter time many years ago. We shared a cabin I was on the top bunk. It was OK but even with a bed each I seemed to wake at every stop and sometimes on some noisy tracks. The return from Fort William was great however with a very pretty route before the darkness and bedtime and sharing a bottle of wine in the restaurant car. We paid around £49 pounds each per person per journey, which was OK and an experience I am glad took.
I don't know how tall you are, but that legroom looked appalling. Was there any warning when you booked? I'd either fly, or take the bus and spend the savings on a meal.
It would be very interesting if Scott were to try the Cornish Riviera sleeper service between London and Penzance. I know it's a bit out of his usual area, but it uses the same rolling stock that the Scottish sleeper did until a couple of years back and it would be interesting to compare and contrast the journey. An expensive trip to run down to London then Penzance and back, so happy to contribute to crowd fund for tickets...
I did that once in the late 80s! was traveling to a family wedding in penzance, traveled from Manchester picadilly in the afternoon got to Bristol at some gawd awfull time then had a 2 hr wait on the platform for the sleeper train from london to penzance that arrived at 2 in the morning, got on in a pitch black normal seating coach (luckily we got a spot with a table) but didnt get much sleep totaly uncomfortable i actual got under the table on the floor to try to get some shut eye lol i was absoultly knackered when me and my family( mum ,dad and 2 younger syblings) got to penzance at 4 in the afternoon the folowing day! NEVER AGAIN! next time i visited family i got the national express (that was just as long tbh zipped right through till we hit devon and cornwall and the coach did a full tour of cornwall stopped at nearly every place there ! 🤣)
I got the Highland sleeper to Perth about 4-5 years ago, so with the older stock. I travelled in a seat on the way to Scotland & a berth on the way back. The seats were much more comfortable than the new ones looked & the older coaching stock didn't clatter like the new ones do either. Even in plain passenger form, the older coaching stock was a lot more comfortable than the newer trains which have replaced them. It appears that 'grab & run' is the modern way of thinking, not provide a good service so customers return.
I think the refurbished MK3 stock of the Cornish Riviera far more visually appealing and apparently more comfortable than the new Caledonian sleeper. I know they don't have en suite facilities but that's something I'm prepared to forgo just for a night.
Not so expensive if you buy an all-line rover ticket and pay the sleeper supplement, which you can do by phoning GWR's very helpful call centre (based in Doncaster for some bizarre reason). I did that and the sleeper surcharge was £40 shared cabin, or £55 sole use.
I have done it once but it was coming north to then go straight home, and to bed. I wouldn't have bought a seat ticket to then spend the day on business or being a tourist, but frankly I wouldn't travel on an overnight bus either unless going straight home upon arrival. You have access to trolley service, a decent sized toilet, a lockable overhead locker, charging sockets.
I quite agree that the seating falls far short of what should be provided. All well and good the operator blowing its trumpet about the sleeping cabins/berths, but for seventy quid I'd expect far better seating and sound quality.
We did the berth (very expensive!) and had a comfortable night (I fell asleep to the soound of water swishing around somewhere) - we showered whilst the train was moving, and we were given a cooked breakfast. No, I won't consider a seat.
I’ve taken the seat once on the sleeper- never again! In Sweden 2 of us in 1st class sleeper from Stockholm to Malmö was the same pride as standard class sleeper here for one!
Trains should install seats like airplane lay flat business class. Even similar to old BA Club World. That might be an appealing budget option. I dont really need the private compartment, just the lay flat seat.
I think on any overnight service I'd prefer some sort of flat sleeping position - I've never fared well on the Kirkwall to Aberdeen boat in a seat (a cabin costs much more makes it so much more comfortable), and the night London-Glasgow (and the return a day or so later) was unpleasant in a seated position too. I suppose needs must for some people but if a cabin/bed is available and I can afford it, then that's my preferred option! Interesting videos though, have you been to Uddingston to stand in front of Tunnocks and eat your tea cake/wafer/snowball, now that Covid restrictions are more relaxed? I grew up smelling the delicious aroma of the Tunnocks factory, and I still love all their treats!
I've used the seats for a return service. On the way out I was very lucky - it was quite empty and I was able to curl up across two empty seats on my camping roll mat. On the way back, after 4hrs of agony I gave up trying to find ways to make the single seat comfortable, put my bag on it and and curled under the seat on the floor. Totally agree the bus is much better!! The staff were SO lovely to seated carriage folk both ways, I wonder if they find watching people suffer all night a bit awkward.
+1 the trip down to Penzance. Not a big fan of Penzance itself (+ Phoenix cinema, - unless you are nostalgic, Wimpy), but emerging from Penzance station you have the magnificent view of Mounts Bay. Do some research and visit when St. Michael’s Mount is open. An incredible mixture of location, scenery, architecture and history.
I once travelled on a City Night Line train by DB, and wanted to save some money, so I booked one of the seats. They called them Sleeperette, but sleeping on them was impossible. Was on the train from Hamburg to Munich. Did the journey some more times, but always booked a berth.
The CAF Mk5 /Mk5a may sadly become the trojan horse for the discontinuation of sleeper and loco hauled rail services in the UK. While flawed, the Mk3 coach was the best we produced in the 70s and nothing else seems to have surpassed it.
The last time I did the sleeper to Glasgow from Euston on a MK3 cost £97 first class (cabin to myself). To be fair I had a railcard. It was comfortable though. I have done the MK5 (current stock) and it was UNcomfortable. The chattering of the bogies all night long is crazy. When I got the class 450 back from Waterloo, it was as quiet and as smooth as I could imagine, and that's a London commuter train! Oh how I wish Siemens and not CAF had designed the new sleepers it would be like chalk and cheese. I cannot believe that the MK5s wlll last for their design life. I'd give them 10 years before all customers realise just how bad they are.
The GWR Night Riviera Sleeper train between London (Paddington) and Penzance/Pensans makes an interesting contrast with what Serco Group plc's "Caledonian Sleeper" has to offer! The former is a Standard Class product throughout in which cheap Super Off-Peak Single and Return tickets are valid. You just pay a supplement for solo or duo use of a twin-berth cabin!
Used to travel this journey regularly in the 80's both ways .....Never booked a berth, always bought a seat and had a word with the sleeping car attendant ....£20 note usually got me a bunk (always on my own) ,only thing being you had to vacate the s.c about half hour before you got to Euston or Central ....money well spent
We ( foolishly ) pay the highest fares in Europe for trains that really should be scrapped or, at least overhauled. You were stung for £72 on that trip Scott.
Before the recent fuel price increases, I could have driven from Glasgow to London for about the same (a little bit less?). At least I'd have been comfy and could stop whenever I liked.
I’ve booked a double compartment Euston-Glasgow round trip for October 2022. 🤞 Thanks for showing what the alternative could be! Appreciate your sense of humor. Happy traveling!
I've had to take it once or twice and it drives me insane that they keep the lights on full and don't even dim them. Feels like your eyes are burning with the light and the tiredness.
This is something they definitely did not used to do. On the older trains (e.g. 2000s, 2010s), they would dim the lights which created a much more relaxed environment to sleep in. I would not travel in the seated coaches now - the bright light feels like having your head drilled.
Agree with most comments on here. Did travel down on the old service - managed to sleep quite well, found the seats and carriages comfortable. Used the new one once - cold, hard seats and lights brightly on all night. Never again!
I am travelling to London tomorrow 17/05/2022 during the day. I am looking forward to the trip because the last time I went by train was in 1977. I enjoy your vlogs so keep them coming.
I would advise a sleeper cabin. I did that from Crewe to Fort William return. Very noisy and I did not sleep but at least I could stretch out, lie down and have a wash. I travelled on the old sleeper and the room only had a basin but it was adequate. What makes the trip worthwhile is the astonishing scenery after about 4 am as you get into the Clyde estuary and beyond. The train skirts the edges of lochs and and forests and the scenery is amazing. You wouldn’t get these views from a coach or plane. To get the full experience you need to board at Euston so you can have dinner on board. I had dinner on the return journey. Haggis, potatoes and swede. Lovely. But on the new trains I’ve been told it’s a nightmare to get into the sit down restaurant and often food is not available. Serco don’t care about the quality of service offered.
I used to love getting the friday 5.00pm train from Central to that london back in the day. In the smokers carriage there was always a party going on with 30 other random people.
Yes, everyone fears for this service as the prices are so extortionate and there is no real budget option anymore. My suggestions are to bring a neck pillow, recline the seat (it does not recline very much) listen to some sort of talk radio with the eye blind on for the first hour until you begin to nod off, and then go straight to the ear plugs and sleep usually follows. It probably helps too being on the (slightly) shorter size (5'4").
@@video125com Yes, you are right, the seat base just slides forward to increase the incline, and only a little. I agree it is not enough to get a comfortable angle. Personally I am small enough to still find it quite a generously sized seat overall but I can see the problem if you were tall.
I've always wanted to take the Caledonian Sleeper (full disclosure: I've been to quite a few places around the world, but somehow I've avoided going North of the England/Scotland border!), but I'll definitely make sure I save up for a sleeper cabin rather than a seat. It beggars belief that the seats are so unsuitable for such a long, overnight journey. As an aside, I've only just discovered your youtube channel, Scott, and find it absolutely fascinating and entertaining. I'm right down in Cornwall at the end of the line (literally, in fact: my short train commute each day takes me to Penzance which is as far as the line goes in the UK). I once took the Night Riviera from Penzance to London, which was definitely an experience, but I can't say I slept much. To be fair, that's probably more to do with me being a light, fussy sleeper than any problem with the service! Keep up the good work, mate!
If you are going to Glasgow, take an evening train, 17:30 gets you in at 22:10, 18:30 gets you in at 23:10, and then stay overnight in Glasgow. It will be more expensive, but a lot more comfortable.
Great review! I’ve used the sleeper a lot from Inverness. When I see the eye-watering prices, I’ve often been tempted to book a seat. Not now! The ticketing is weird. If I book a cabin ro travel on my own, I get my 30% senior railcard discount, but if I book a twin cabin with my wife, we get no railcard discount. I did work out it was actually cheaper for us to book separately and have a cabin each. But that wouldn’t be very sociable! Agree with many commenters on here; the new rolling stock is a HUGE step backwards. Finally, FWIW, I think the single biggest contributor to a good night’s sleep for me is ear plugs.
It would be more sociable if you and your wife booked yourselves into adjacent "Classic" cabins on the Caledonian Sleeper and asked your Customer Host to open the interconnecting door between the two! For me, the single biggest contributor to high-quality sleep is a couple of Single Malt Scotch Whiskies in the Club Car before I hit the hay!
"I don't do toilet reviews", thank you, so tired of seeing these after all who has not used a toilet and one is much the same as another, I just see these starting and fast forward the video and what amazes me is this is done from a vehicle passing through or over great scenery, film that instead please, in my youth I did a few long journeys sitting up and like you it will never happen again, anything over two hours and I am flying. Thank you and stay safe.
Great video Scott. I've travelled on the Transpennine Express Mk5 coaches,the class 331 and 397 electric multiple units and the 195 diesel multiple unit which all have the same builder,CAF. Every single one of the above trains have horrible ride qualities and the seats are very uncomfortable. Why on earth are modern UK trains so uncomfortable.
@@stepheng7586 Fair dos, never riden the 318. I've only ever been in Club on the new Sleeper, but I sleep through everything except a cat's meow (you know who the boss is lol)
Travellng on a Siemens class 450 emu from Waterloo is SO quiet and SO comfortable. If Siemens had made the sleepers it would have been like chalk and cheese. Hearing the sound of the sleeper in this video brings back my traumatic never again experience. Ugh it makes me shiver.....
I had my first experience on this train due to work and I absolutely refused to travel via the seats - not a single chance that I would've gotten any sleep. The rooms themselves are nice, very compact for my size at 6ft 1 to fit in them but much better than standard seats and the price reflects that. If it was myself that was paying and not my work then I would've been disappointed however!
Great video Scott. You really should do a review from a berth (if you can afford it!) Just to be fair to CS. Me n my partner have a disabled berth from Lon Eus to Inverness next month. Very excited but I've heard like you did the noise n lack of ride quality with the bogles. I can sleep anywhere me but not my partner. We're hoping she gets some sleep! You should try the seats on the Night Riveria one day although I appreciate its along way from home. Another great video though.
I have done a few sleeper trips over the years in Europe and the USA. Europe is the best value as the US fares have gone up quite a bit recently but the Calidonian sleeper is by far the most expensive. You can have 3 nights and all your meals included in the States for the price of a room and basic breakfast here.
I used the Caledonian Sleeper in 2010 from Euston to Glasgow. Like you, I booked a seat as I'm normally a good sleeper and even once managed an 11-hour sleep in economy on a transatlantic flight. I didn't get a wink of sleep on the train that night. The seat was uncomfortable, the carriage was freezing and I had the pleasure of being in the vicinity of a brash American tourist who, despite repeated requests, spent all night talking and couldn't keep his voice down. I vowed never to use the service again, and based on your review I'd say it actually looks worse now than it was for me 12 years ago. Unfortunately, due to a tight schedule, I'm having to break that vow and use the service again in a few weeks. I at least paid the extra to have a cabin this time. Let's hope it makes a difference.
The seats definitely looked dire, and the price for them only serves to add to the sting! Then again, I feel that if you're travelling on a sleeper train you should go for a couchette or sleeper anyway - just seems like a false economy picking regular seating in that situation.
I used to work on similar years ago , it had 2nd class seats , 1st class seats , 1st class sleepers . The 2nd class sleepers used to be in the consist , when I was a child , and traveled overnight , once in both lots of sleeper , always 1st class seats otherwise . I also used to work an all sleepr service , which was taken off the run , rotted for a few years , then sold , converted to a very expensive luxury service , which now runs between Singapore , and Bangkok - it costs about $5,000.00 USA one way now .
@@chrischarlescook Well yeah, and I'd say it's a personal decision - either spend more money to get a more comfortable journey on the sleeper train, or save your money and pick one of the cheaper alternative methods of transport. If you want to travel on a sleeper train in particular, I feel you should try for a sleeper or at the very least a couchette berth - otherwise you may as well get a flight or a coach, as what benefits seem to be gained from travelling on a sleeper train in the seating coach? On the CS it seems to be an uncomfortable ride, a lack of sleep and arriving in your destination tired and understandably irritated!
The price is extortionate for a sleeper cabin and you don’t get any sleep but at least you can lie down and stretch out. I have done both but I would never go for the seat option again. It’s a ripoff. The seats do not recline and the trains are packed. It’s hot, noisy and unbearable. Like a punishment.
Thanks for doing this Scott, so we don't have to. I would've expected the seats and the legroom to be better for a trip like this and for the price you paid, and it's a shame no alcohol was served, I think I'd need a few stiff drinks to make it through the night!
11A is the best seat you'll get on the Sleeper, it's roomier than you think and as a regular London to Dundee Sleeper traveller I feel this video does not do the train justice.
Ouch! I though I had it bad when traveled coach on Amtrak from Los Angeles to New Orleans for 52 hours. Props to you for putting up up with everything this train threw at you.
Hi Scott. Just discovered your channel. Thoroughly enjoy the videos as a train , plane and ship fan. Keep it going 🙏 Best wishes from Scott in Northern Ireland.
I traveled on this in a seat a couple of years ago , loved the way it flowed in and out of stations with no sensation of stopping or starting away , ok if you have spare double seat to curl up across for a wee nap , my only gripe was the price of a cup of tea from the buffet car and lack of a serving counter there and having to take my tea back to my seat but apart from that quite enjoyed the trip .
did they turn the lights off? .... having Interrailed and being over 50, I remember compartments in carriages with 2 sets of 3 seats facing each other and you COULD turn the lights off yourself. This means you can SEE OUT of the windows at night, and it is much preferable to travelling in a fluorescent tube. Your night shots at Newcastle looked as though the carriage lights were off?
Went from Eusron to Aviemore on the new carraiges last autumn. I totally agree about the seats, not fit for the job, the previous ones were much better, even if they were 40 years old, it was possible to sleep. The prices on the new service are way too high for me, the bunks in shared cabins were affordable, and quite often I had the cabin to myself. Did they need replacing? Yes, but not like this. Someone got their marketing wrong.
Good video, from another Scottish TH-camr, mate! I haven't used the sleepers since Serco took over as they have an appalling reputation. I noticed on National Rail this morning that the Fort William sleeper was "cancelled" yet again. I'm glad you didn't bother with the toilet tour as others do this to spin out the video so they get more advert income. A few years ago I went on an overnight bus in Chile - a third-world country - and the seats fully reclined to 180 degrees with a blanket too. The Serco seated coach is abysmal.
I have used all the Scottish sleeper services,since around 1980,and much preferred the previous stock..even seating was better than the current stock(which I haven`t tried),hard seats, are the norm these days on trains..and badly laid out..when I saw the seats before they wnet into service, I thought, designed by a computer, not for comfort..it seems Scott has proved the comfort level is not good..I would not pay the inflated price for a berth, and reluctant to pay for a seated journey..yet Cal Sleeper claim it is popular,but I wonder how many return to use it..we built the best rolling stock,and now we have to suffer with foreign imports..Good vid, you have now convinced me, I would rather travel in the daytime..
Thanks for that report after watching many Caledonian sleeper reports and wanting to do this trip for quite a while now I think I’ll remove this from my bucket list and kick it into the bucket, over priced and nothing much seems to work, I remember taking the train with my parents from Stranraer to London and if you were lucky to get a whole compartment you could take turns to lie down in fact my little brother slept in the luggage rack, my parents would probably face a child cruelty charge nowadays, ah well being young didn’t really bother you back then everything was an adventure but now it’s a chore
Ive seen more videos about this train and there always seems to be some sort of problem. Even with the top end accomodation. Like no hot water in the shower, no water at all, items on the menu out of stock, things like that.
I've still not tried the new Caley Sleeper. But I quite liked the old one, the the oldie woldie Mk 2 restaurant carriage. (First) ScotRail used to do £19 sleeper tickets incl. a light brekkie. You won't get that value here. Even the old seated sleeper had plus first class-style armchairs.
I have travelled on the old BR sleeper to Glasgow and also enjoyed the luxury of the Auckland-Wellington Silver Star, both of which were in the 1970s, but your excellent video convinced me within the first few minutes that travel on the Caledonian Sleeper would have to be an absolute last resort. Your seat and the legroom were terrible. These days it seems as if the comfort of the passenger is irrelevant. I used to love train travel, but not any more (at least, not in the UK)
Really enjoying the videos Scott. Very similar to yourself wanting to do the sleeper although I think I might just take the hit and pay for a bed when I do!
Did the midnight 'mail train' from Manchester to Euston years ago. Did it once, never again. Somethings don't change. Ultra uncomfortable for the price of a ticket.
Took the Inverness to Euston via Edinburgh in 2019. was great. got to sleep at about 11, woke up just ouitside Crewe at about 5am . which is normal for me. Get the point about the coach though, and the price
You are MUCH SAFER on the CS than any of the overnight coaches. The clientele on those coaches make me feel so unsafe I'll never travel on them unless I have to. If you have to pay more for the CS - seat or cabin - it is worth it for the safety alone.
Why would anyone do this train journey, I checked prices 6 weeks in advance for the end of June when you can fly Glasgow to London Gatwick for less than £25.00 on Easyjet with a flight time of 1 hour 20 minutes. And £12.50 for a 30-minute journey into central London £12.50. That's a total of £37.50. Literally half the price of the train ticket. Taking the double bed cabin on the train might be more comfortable, but the cost of £345 is just for the cabin, and not counting food and drink on the journey. Fly, then spend £200 on a decent hotel bed in London, and the balance on a good meal out in the city. Why would you even consider taking the overnight train?
I’ve used the sleeper many many times and agree the new stock is very uncomfortable and noisy. I need to get to Inverness in August and priced the sleeper. Almost £400 from Crewe for two of us. 7am flight from Manchester takes an hour and was £25 each!
Do all seats have that restriction from the seat in front or were you just awfy unlucky? If there was no such restriction would it still have been a dire experience?
Tbh I’ve payed as little as £20 from london to Edinburgh on the cali sleeper In a seat. The old coaches the MK2/3 where actually ok they had decent recline and where actually really soft and sprung unlike the ironing board seats they have now
We should always be wary of calling for the scrapping of older stock, as quite often the new stock brought in to replace it is much, much worse. I have no idea what's going on with the rattle from the bogies there but it sounds like it does this throughout the train? Terrible design! The old MK2 seated coach was extremely comfortable. The seats reclined further, had good headrests and soft padding with lots of legroom. The lighting was mellow and was turned right down after leaving Edinburgh. I slept well on the seats quite a few times. It seems our approach to updating stock is to "make it newer" but not consider solving any problems, just create new, bigger problems
Honestly, what were the planners at ScotRail/Serco thinking when they provided uncomfortable seats for a specifically overnight journey? Someone stuffed up big time here, especially when setting the pricing for what seems to be, a sub-standard service.
had a seat on the old sleeper ... we had dark blue light all night , some folk slept on the floor .. that was only 45 quid... about 1997 ...far better than the horrible mk5s
11A is the best seat you'll get on the Sleeper, it's roomier than you think and as a regular London to Dundee Sleeper traveller I feel this video does not do the train justice.
Recently used this service from Dundee to Preston, 4/22. Never again . The seat was not built for me at 6ft and 20stone. Solid seat , a menu that I could not purchase from, no staff to talk to. The train from Dundee to Waverley was very noisy. Then the shunting and then passengers from the seats off the highlander moved to the coach on the low lander. By now everyone using seats was wide awake at 1am.
Those seats aren't as bad as I was expecting.I did a trip on it from London to Carlisle in the seats in February and it was far better than the overnight buses.I suspect that as you didn't go via Motherwell you went via Newcastle and cut across to the West Coast Mainline in the suburbs of London to get to Euston.Usually when it's diverted that way it's one train with the Edinburgh section on at Glasgow instead of joined at Carstairs Junction.I've been on it diverted via Dumfries too once but never via the Hexham line or the Settle Carlisle .One good thing is that the Cal Sleeper is hardly ever late as so much slack is built in.
A few years back I travelled from London to Glasgow on the older version of this train. Whilst the interior was a little old and tired (and the heating was broken, so was jammed on full!), I got a cabin to myself for just a bit more than you paid for that seat and got a good nights sleep. I've heard even the cabins aren't great now, as the walls between each cabin are so thin.
@@RW-nr6bh - How long (and wide) would the beds be on a GWR Sleeper train from London to Penzance if the 7ft Broad Gauge hadn't been abolished in 1892?
Over an hour to get from the Emirates Stadium to Euston (2 miles), unbelievable. They should have disembarked all the passengers at Kings Cross, then taken the train around the suburbs of N London to Euston.
Did this train a couple of months ago. Rattly, uncomfortable and damn near impossible to sleep. The stupid passenger safes had no use and were unused, except possibly as bins because the carriages effectively have no bin. Well, there was a bin in the middle of the carriage but it was well camouflaged and had less capacity than a litre carton of orange juice. For the entire carriage. Also, the foam ear plugs were decorative use only... you'd have more luck just sticking your fingers in your ears...
I was lucky enough to travel from London - Aberdeen on the old sleeper in a room and actually enjoyed it. Nice service, good food and relaxing club car at an almost reasonable price (advance booking several weeks in advance). I've also travelled on the Night Riviera from London - Penzance and that was good, but the food offering wasn't as good. Almost every TH-cam video featuring the CAF coaches on the Caledonian Sleeper has put me off wanting to risk the journey.
![[ENGSUB] UNPRODUCTIVE DAY ใช้ชีวิต (เปื่อยๆ) ด้วยกัน 1 วัน! | OUROAD CLOSEFRiEND SS2 EP.9](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pyYKZ3kra9w/mqdefault.jpg)
I believe that a train line is only as good as it treats its lowest-fare passengers. A bus ride should never be superior to a train ride - the CS should be embarrassed by this video. And thank you for reviewing a trip in coach class, something that most travel vloggers have no interest in. This makes your review all the more valuable and honest!
again, this is all dependent on the worth of the ticket....
it is not luxury (which for its 70 quid it should well aim to be, mind you)... however
if we take it that this is actually coach class (it would be overprized by a margin, but) the service is fairly reasonable... I mean, this is visually the comfort level between first & second class for many other types of trains.
also, whilst I do totally love these reviews you have to allow for the personal crankiness of this particular author (which is an artistic & stylistic choice as much as anything else) when judging against the makers of a product. on merit alone, I can see some who would go for this over any (standard) coach style bus... more so, there are those who would find it embarrassing that anyone could bring low something "so elegantly made" & "so full of Scottish heritage," as to compare it to a generic bus cooperation.
so, whilst the review is fair and well done, it is really a matter of opinion.
Seated passengers have always been treated like second class citizens on this service
@@yorkcyclist Ha, you should see how they treat coach customers on Amtrak in the U.S.!
@@stanislavkostarnov2157 I agree that I'd always like to take a train before a bus, but there *should* be some kind of notable improvement on trains...
Back in the 70s I was a student, returning from a Geology field trip in Scotland, and I used a cheap slow night train from Glasgow Central to London Kings Cross, departing at about 2300, arriving at about 0700 via Edinburgh and the ECML route. It had old compartment stock, and on the night I used it, had few passengers, so I had a compartment to myself. I took my boots off, made a pillow of my rucksack, covered myself with my coat and settled down to sleep across the 3 bench seats after lifting the armrests. I could even turn off the lights and pull the blinds down on both sides. But getting to sleep was hard because the old coaches and diesel engine were just so noisy. I slept fitfully and there were some long stops, such as at Grantham. But we got there, and I took the tube to Putney Bridge and the 85 bus home to Kingston, then went to bed for the rest of the morning.
Really interesting. Never knew about this train in the 70s.
My grandparents used it to take my mum and Aunts up to Glasgow to visit family in the 70’s.
I misread that as '85 hour bus journey'
Lol
I too preferred the smaller compartments of the 1970s' trains, which didn't seem half as crowded as today. I can only sympathize with the guy who endured a 1-hour journey from N7 to Euston, which is 2.6 miles and should take 12 minutes by car.
Theres also a train to fort william dep london euston 2115 stops at edinbugh glasgow queen street low leval at 0548
Knackered just watching that! But hey, I do always learn something on your videos, had no idea about the logo before! 🦌
I did the seated coach when they still had the older rolling stock, that was a heck of a lot more comfortable than what's being offered now. I always book the room now whenever I use the sleeper.
Yes, because the old Mark 3 Seated Coach was a former First Class carriage with comfortable 2+1 seating across the aisle! Since Scotrail was Privatised in 1997 the cost of overnight Sleeper travel has gone through the roof, whilst the benefits have been systematically reduced!
Absolutely incredible that those gorgeous posters aren't available to buy in print format! Who on earth is in charge of their marketing dept? Superb video as always.
I am genuinely surprised it’s only £70 knowing the UK’s ridiculous train prices.
honestely, if booked in advance or even last minute if its out of season. With a railcard its only £33 one way. I wonder if it was overhauled or changed since then?
The prices are crazy , I went up/ back from London to Inverness just before lockdown and even with my Senior rail card the fare was well over £400 in a club room , fortunately, the service was still suffering from teething problems with the new stock, because of a five hour delay in arriving I got half my fare back .
I wonder why they didn’t fit aircraft premium economy seats in the seating carriages, they are fairly comfortable for a short overnight trip, I wouldn’t think they would take up a great deal more room , they would certainly be more akin to the £70 you paid .
Plane £100 return
Surely a plane ticket and a cheap but larger room at a Premier Inn would be cheaper than a cabin on this?
@@xr6lad , I totally agree but it was a bucket list trip , I really enjoyed my weekend in wet and cold Inverness and arrived back in Euston Monday morning and went directly to work 👍
@@andrewstorm8240 Why is it that when people gloat about cheap air fares, they never factor in the costs of getting to/from the airport? Young people are the worst at this, phoning mum and saying "I've booked a cheap flight to (somehwere), can you come and pick me up? Meaning the parents have to pay for a long drive to and from the "cheap" flight destination.
@@Clivestravelandtrains I sense your taxi pain
Wish I'd seen this video sooner, travelled on the Lowlander between GLC and EUS a few days ago and it was horrific. Totally agree with everything you've pointed out. Will stick to Megabus if travelling overnight in future
But that’s rubbish as well - just get easyj down
@@andrewstorm8240 I quite ofen do, but sometimes I need to travel back overnight if there is no early morning flights
@@scottylambs did you try national express?
@@andrewstorm8240 Have done previously mate yeah
Matter of opinion,but if you want to put your safety at risk by travelling on an overnight bus,go ahead. There are TOO many dodgy characters that travel on those overnight coaches.
In 1989-1992 I used to go to Euston from Glasgow regularly once a month but I always got a berth to sleep, it was very comfortable with good bed and a free whisky at night.
Have done the seated sleeper twice, once got a double seat to myself so was able to stretch out but the second time it was a full journey and it was, as you say, exceptionally uncomfortable.
As a highland boy whose father worked in London, I spent many nights on the old sleeper in the 50s and 60s and slept very well. I took the newer one in 2000 with my wife for a trip home , as we then lived in London. Despite the amazing crew providing us with the adjoining empty cabin free of charge, so we wouldn’t be so cramped, I slept very badly- if at all. The old steam train of the 50s gave a much smoother ride.
I have found the seating on modern trains in Britain to be extremely rock hard, uncomfortable and cramped. It doesn’t matter if it’s a commuter train or an inter city. They all seem to be in competition to create to most uncomfortable journey for the paying customer.
Another observation is how quickly they become worn and tatty. The fixture, fittings and fabrics seems to made of the cheapest materials know to man.
Those carriages have only been in service in 2019 and spent the best part of two years not being used. I shudder to think what this service will look like in six months time.
Most new railing stock seems to be using seats made by a Spanish company, the name escapes me, but your right the comfort and quality is appalling. Seems like they just buy the cheapest possible. Tho I believe the seats on the new operator Lumo and the refurbished pendolinos are a good bit better. Apparently these seats are made in Scotland
It's a race to cram as many seats in as possible, with as little regard for the comfort of passengers or practicality. They just want headline figures so they can say "Our new trains have X amount of extra seats".
@@izzieb I wouldn’t class myself as an expert but I’ve been working on the railway in the south western area, locally and only really been around 3 services but I can say for a fact, Thameslink is the worst and yes, they literally have their train designs to cram as many people as possible. I’ve been on them I think only 2-3 times in my life and I absolutely hated it. They also seem to attract some horrible passengers 😂 I frequently commute to London via Southern, and that’s only an hour journey but towards the end on occasion I find it very uncomfortable- not to mention the one time I “treated” myself to their First Class. Not sure why I even bothered paying the £10 extra for a bit of cloth over the head rest. Same standard seats, they’re not separated with any physical barriers/doors, no extra leg room, no charging ports etc and let’s face it, half the people on these commuter services in First Class don’t even pay for it.
I started travelling by train for fun in the 1970's, and I agree wholeheartedly with your comment. The Ryanair principle seems to be controlling the Department of Transport in terms of their train acquisition policy. In the 70's a train ride from Leeds (where I lived then) to Cornwall was a pleasure - now the Cross Country Voyagers are a disaster to be avoided. That's why the flights from Glasgow to Bristol are always sold out! The Department of Transport actively encourage domestic air travel by providing cramped horrible slow rail alternatives.
If you're talking about the "Ironing board" seats on class 385,156, 377 etc then you're right... even though I've never sat in them yet, a guy told me he actually prefers them!
“Some TH-camrs do toilet tours….I’m not one of them… you’ll just have to use your imagination”.
Perfect.
BTW …. I am totally convinced at this point that frequent mass transit travellers should invest in a quality memory gel foam cushion for the old “derrière” since carriage seating can be downright hard or less than clean.
Cheers
🇨🇦
What are the trains like in Canada? Do they have modern stock?
@@JoJo-yt1ys VIA RAIL is Canada’s passenger rail company. The “rolling stock” is a refurbished fleet of UK passenger carriages from say the 1990s or so. They had to be refitted to meet the challenges of our gruelling winters. Passenger rail service is not among Canada’s priorities simply because we have a low density population distribution…. enormous land mass.
Canada has one viable train route which we call the Quebec-Windsor corridor along which millions of people reside. This profitable circuit will be the location of high speed rail service in the future. Hope this was helpful.
Cheers 🥂 🇨🇦
Travelled on the all seater nightrider services back in the 1980s; full rake of 1st class mk2 air con stock, nice comfy seats. Coaches didn’t rattle. Headrests and proper cushioned seats not just thin fabric on hardboard. What a backwards step in service. I bet whomever signed this off in Caledonian sleepers corporate headquarters as the quality and specification of their new stock has had a pay rise and promotion since then.
Same here. Inverness to London all the way on a MK2E/F- one of two attached to the back of the Highland Sleeper. Nice big, padded seats that you could sleep in. If these seats he mentions are anything like the modern DfT spec ones found in the awful railbuses they're building now then I wouldn't want to travel in it either.
itv was the dft that wanted them seats there the same as on 800 trains useless
I did that too, it was an absolute nightmare. The seats weren’t bad being as you say ex-First Class stock but I didn’t get a wink of sleep. The lights were too bright and the train stopped at every station possible on the way. And that was a lot of stations. Kirkconnel anyone? Urgh, it still sends shivers up my spine thinking about it.
I’ve noticed that rail services in Scotland are often really dirty. On one occasion took the popular tourist train from Fort William to Mallaig and was embarrassed at the state of the carriages. Tourists from all over Europe were on that train. It hadn’t been cleaned at Glasgow. Commuter trains seem left to rot. It really isn’t fair.
Don't expect ScotRail trains to improve under nationalisation. They didn't before when the whole network was owned by BR
When we travelled Queen St to Oban in 2007 the toilets were full on the Sprinter before Helensburgh, up and before Crianlarich down!
No such thing as a dirty train ONLY DIRTY PEOPLE
Are you racist?
@@razorcharlieyacunt I'm Scottish
Brilliant summary. I have used the sleeper a few times, always had a cabin, which is tight for room. The journey is noisy and arrival times can be a bit of a hit or miss.
I would not use the sleeper ever again even if my life depended on it.
My wife and I used the Sleeper to do the West Highland Way around easter time many years ago. We shared a cabin I was on the top bunk. It was OK but even with a bed each I seemed to wake at every stop and sometimes on some noisy tracks. The return from Fort William was great however with a very pretty route before the darkness and bedtime and sharing a bottle of wine in the restaurant car. We paid around £49 pounds each per person per journey, which was OK and an experience I am glad took.
Should use the beds .. I went to fort Willian in the double and it was excellent .. club car and rooms where epic
thanks, James. that's good to know :)
I don't know how tall you are, but that legroom looked appalling. Was there any warning when you booked?
I'd either fly, or take the bus and spend the savings on a meal.
It would be very interesting if Scott were to try the Cornish Riviera sleeper service between London and Penzance. I know it's a bit out of his usual area, but it uses the same rolling stock that the Scottish sleeper did until a couple of years back and it would be interesting to compare and contrast the journey.
An expensive trip to run down to London then Penzance and back, so happy to contribute to crowd fund for tickets...
I did that once in the late 80s! was traveling to a family wedding in penzance, traveled from Manchester picadilly in the afternoon got to Bristol at some gawd awfull time then had a 2 hr wait on the platform for the sleeper train from london to penzance that arrived at 2 in the morning, got on in a pitch black normal seating coach (luckily we got a spot with a table) but didnt get much sleep totaly uncomfortable i actual got under the table on the floor to try to get some shut eye lol i was absoultly knackered when me and my family( mum ,dad and 2 younger syblings) got to penzance at 4 in the afternoon the folowing day! NEVER AGAIN! next time i visited family i got the national express (that was just as long tbh zipped right through till we hit devon and cornwall and the coach did a full tour of cornwall stopped at nearly every place there ! 🤣)
I got the Highland sleeper to Perth about 4-5 years ago, so with the older stock. I travelled in a seat on the way to Scotland & a berth on the way back. The seats were much more comfortable than the new ones looked & the older coaching stock didn't clatter like the new ones do either. Even in plain passenger form, the older coaching stock was a lot more comfortable than the newer trains which have replaced them. It appears that 'grab & run' is the modern way of thinking, not provide a good service so customers return.
I think the refurbished MK3 stock of the Cornish Riviera far more visually appealing and apparently more comfortable than the new Caledonian sleeper. I know they don't have en suite facilities but that's something I'm prepared to forgo just for a night.
Yes. The British-built Mk3a Sleeping Car vehicles are streets ahead of CAF's Mk5s in terms of their holistic design & ride quality.
Not so expensive if you buy an all-line rover ticket and pay the sleeper supplement, which you can do by phoning GWR's very helpful call centre (based in Doncaster for some bizarre reason). I did that and the sleeper surcharge was £40 shared cabin, or £55 sole use.
I have done it once but it was coming north to then go straight home, and to bed. I wouldn't have bought a seat ticket to then spend the day on business or being a tourist, but frankly I wouldn't travel on an overnight bus either unless going straight home upon arrival.
You have access to trolley service, a decent sized toilet, a lockable overhead locker, charging sockets.
I quite agree that the seating falls far short of what should be provided. All well and good the operator blowing its trumpet about the sleeping cabins/berths, but for seventy quid I'd expect far better seating and sound quality.
We did the berth (very expensive!) and had a comfortable night (I fell asleep to the soound of water swishing around somewhere) - we showered whilst the train was moving, and we were given a cooked breakfast. No, I won't consider a seat.
Really enjoyed that. I’ve subscribed. Watched a lot of your videos. They’re great 👍
I’ve taken the seat once on the sleeper- never again! In Sweden 2 of us in 1st class sleeper from Stockholm to Malmö was the same pride as standard class sleeper here for one!
i love how you always look away from the camera after you finish speaking its great🤣
Trains should install seats like airplane lay flat business class. Even similar to old BA Club World. That might be an appealing budget option. I dont really need the private compartment, just the lay flat seat.
I think on any overnight service I'd prefer some sort of flat sleeping position - I've never fared well on the Kirkwall to Aberdeen boat in a seat (a cabin costs much more makes it so much more comfortable), and the night London-Glasgow (and the return a day or so later) was unpleasant in a seated position too. I suppose needs must for some people but if a cabin/bed is available and I can afford it, then that's my preferred option! Interesting videos though, have you been to Uddingston to stand in front of Tunnocks and eat your tea cake/wafer/snowball, now that Covid restrictions are more relaxed? I grew up smelling the delicious aroma of the Tunnocks factory, and I still love all their treats!
,good to know mate I am going from London to Aberdeen overnight and I needed to know if I should take bus or train.
I've used the seats for a return service. On the way out I was very lucky - it was quite empty and I was able to curl up across two empty seats on my camping roll mat. On the way back, after 4hrs of agony I gave up trying to find ways to make the single seat comfortable, put my bag on it and and curled under the seat on the floor. Totally agree the bus is much better!! The staff were SO lovely to seated carriage folk both ways, I wonder if they find watching people suffer all night a bit awkward.
+1 the trip down to Penzance. Not a big fan of Penzance itself (+ Phoenix cinema, - unless you are nostalgic, Wimpy), but emerging from Penzance station you have the magnificent view of Mounts Bay. Do some research and visit when St. Michael’s Mount is open. An incredible mixture of location, scenery, architecture and history.
I once travelled on a City Night Line train by DB, and wanted to save some money, so I booked one of the seats. They called them Sleeperette, but sleeping on them was impossible. Was on the train from Hamburg to Munich. Did the journey some more times, but always booked a berth.
The CAF Mk5 /Mk5a may sadly become the trojan horse for the discontinuation of sleeper and loco hauled rail services in the UK. While flawed, the Mk3 coach was the best we produced in the 70s and nothing else seems to have surpassed it.
The last time I did the sleeper to Glasgow from Euston on a MK3 cost £97 first class (cabin to myself). To be fair I had a railcard. It was comfortable though. I have done the MK5 (current stock) and it was UNcomfortable. The chattering of the bogies all night long is crazy. When I got the class 450 back from Waterloo, it was as quiet and as smooth as I could imagine, and that's a London commuter train! Oh how I wish Siemens and not CAF had designed the new sleepers it would be like chalk and cheese. I cannot believe that the MK5s wlll last for their design life. I'd give them 10 years before all customers realise just how bad they are.
The GWR Night Riviera Sleeper train between London (Paddington) and Penzance/Pensans makes an interesting contrast with what Serco Group plc's "Caledonian Sleeper" has to offer! The former is a Standard Class product throughout in which cheap Super Off-Peak Single and Return tickets are valid. You just pay a supplement for solo or duo use of a twin-berth cabin!
Really enjoy your videos Scott
It’s great to see all the places you go to and all the travelling as well
Used to travel this journey regularly in the 80's both ways .....Never booked a berth, always bought a seat and had a word with the sleeping car attendant ....£20 note usually got me a bunk (always on my own) ,only thing being you had to vacate the s.c about half hour before you got to Euston or Central ....money well spent
We ( foolishly ) pay the highest fares in Europe for trains that really should be scrapped or, at least overhauled. You were stung for £72 on that trip Scott.
Before the recent fuel price increases, I could have driven from Glasgow to London for about the same (a little bit less?). At least I'd have been comfy and could stop whenever I liked.
Whilst people still pay for it these services will continue to be run and at such high prices
You can get 30€ sleeper from Paris to Toulon or Marseille...
@@annov7500 which is fine if that’s where you want to go ;)
We are all ripped off by all train companys in Uk Every January they increase train fares But what do you get for your money answer Nothing
Scott another great adventure so sorry about no sleep that makes for a long long ride thank you for taking us along as always Big Thumbs UP 😁👍👍👍👍👍
I’ve booked a double compartment Euston-Glasgow round trip for October 2022. 🤞 Thanks for showing what the alternative could be! Appreciate your sense of humor. Happy traveling!
Please let us know how your journey in a cabin (as opposed to a seat) turned out, compared to your expectations!
@@KempSimon Thanks! Unfortunately, I’ve had to postpone my trip to 2023. Better times ahead - I’ll let you know!
In the olden days you could find discounted prices for seats/ bunks and I used them occasionally, which was a lot of fun when you are young!
Scotrail Bargain Berths? From as little as £19 one way?
I've had to take it once or twice and it drives me insane that they keep the lights on full and don't even dim them. Feels like your eyes are burning with the light and the tiredness.
This is something they definitely did not used to do. On the older trains (e.g. 2000s, 2010s), they would dim the lights which created a much more relaxed environment to sleep in. I would not travel in the seated coaches now - the bright light feels like having your head drilled.
I swear, late night trains and buses all seem to want to burn your retinas out. The tech exists to adjust the lighting to reflect the actual light.
Agree with most comments on here. Did travel down on the old service - managed to sleep quite well, found the seats and carriages comfortable. Used the new one once - cold, hard seats and lights brightly on all night. Never again!
I am travelling to London tomorrow 17/05/2022 during the day. I am looking forward to the trip because the last time I went by train was in 1977. I enjoy your vlogs so keep them coming.
I would advise a sleeper cabin. I did that from Crewe to Fort William return. Very noisy and I did not sleep but at least I could stretch out, lie down and have a wash. I travelled on the old sleeper and the room only had a basin but it was adequate. What makes the trip worthwhile is the astonishing scenery after about 4 am as you get into the Clyde estuary and beyond. The train skirts the edges of lochs and and forests and the scenery is amazing. You wouldn’t get these views from a coach or plane. To get the full experience you need to board at Euston so you can have dinner on board. I had dinner on the return journey. Haggis, potatoes and swede. Lovely. But on the new trains I’ve been told it’s a nightmare to get into the sit down restaurant and often food is not available. Serco don’t care about the quality of service offered.
I used to love getting the friday 5.00pm train from Central to that london back in the day. In the smokers carriage there was always a party going on with 30 other random people.
Yes, everyone fears for this service as the prices are so extortionate and there is no real budget option anymore. My suggestions are to bring a neck pillow, recline the seat (it does not recline very much) listen to some sort of talk radio with the eye blind on for the first hour until you begin to nod off, and then go straight to the ear plugs and sleep usually follows. It probably helps too being on the (slightly) shorter size (5'4").
Correction, the seat doesn't recline, the seat squab moves forward a few inches.....that is not a recline. The seat carcass is SOLID.
@@video125com Yes, you are right, the seat base just slides forward to increase the incline, and only a little. I agree it is not enough to get a comfortable angle. Personally I am small enough to still find it quite a generously sized seat overall but I can see the problem if you were tall.
I've always wanted to take the Caledonian Sleeper (full disclosure: I've been to quite a few places around the world, but somehow I've avoided going North of the England/Scotland border!), but I'll definitely make sure I save up for a sleeper cabin rather than a seat. It beggars belief that the seats are so unsuitable for such a long, overnight journey. As an aside, I've only just discovered your youtube channel, Scott, and find it absolutely fascinating and entertaining. I'm right down in Cornwall at the end of the line (literally, in fact: my short train commute each day takes me to Penzance which is as far as the line goes in the UK). I once took the Night Riviera from Penzance to London, which was definitely an experience, but I can't say I slept much. To be fair, that's probably more to do with me being a light, fussy sleeper than any problem with the service! Keep up the good work, mate!
If you are going to Glasgow, take an evening train, 17:30 gets you in at 22:10, 18:30 gets you in at 23:10, and then stay overnight in Glasgow. It will be more expensive, but a lot more comfortable.
Great review! I’ve used the sleeper a lot from Inverness. When I see the eye-watering prices, I’ve often been tempted to book a seat. Not now!
The ticketing is weird. If I book a cabin ro travel on my own, I get my 30% senior railcard discount, but if I book a twin cabin with my wife, we get no railcard discount. I did work out it was actually cheaper for us to book separately and have a cabin each. But that wouldn’t be very sociable!
Agree with many commenters on here; the new rolling stock is a HUGE step backwards.
Finally, FWIW, I think the single biggest contributor to a good night’s sleep for me is ear plugs.
It would be more sociable if you and your wife booked yourselves into adjacent "Classic" cabins on the Caledonian Sleeper and asked your Customer Host to open the interconnecting door between the two! For me, the single biggest contributor to high-quality sleep is a couple of Single Malt Scotch Whiskies in the Club Car before I hit the hay!
"I don't do toilet reviews", thank you, so tired of seeing these after all who has not used a toilet and one is much the same as another, I just see these starting and fast forward the video and what amazes me is this is done from a vehicle passing through or over great scenery, film that instead please, in my youth I did a few long journeys sitting up and like you it will never happen again, anything over two hours and I am flying. Thank you and stay safe.
Great video Scott. I've travelled on the Transpennine Express Mk5 coaches,the class 331 and 397 electric multiple units and the 195 diesel multiple unit which all have the same builder,CAF.
Every single one of the above trains have horrible ride qualities and the seats are very uncomfortable.
Why on earth are modern UK trains so uncomfortable.
The 397 is one of the best rides in Scotland imo. 195/331 pretty poor.
@@stepheng7586 Fair dos, never riden the 318. I've only ever been in Club on the new Sleeper, but I sleep through everything except a cat's meow (you know who the boss is lol)
Built to a price I’m afraid, the operator profit is primary concern and the paying passengers secondary concern, your observations confirm this.
They are made in other countries - we used to make our own, but the industry was squashed, just like so many others!
Travellng on a Siemens class 450 emu from Waterloo is SO quiet and SO comfortable. If Siemens had made the sleepers it would have been like chalk and cheese. Hearing the sound of the sleeper in this video brings back my traumatic never again experience. Ugh it makes me shiver.....
I had my first experience on this train due to work and I absolutely refused to travel via the seats - not a single chance that I would've gotten any sleep. The rooms themselves are nice, very compact for my size at 6ft 1 to fit in them but much better than standard seats and the price reflects that. If it was myself that was paying and not my work then I would've been disappointed however!
Great video Scott. You really should do a review from a berth (if you can afford it!) Just to be fair to CS. Me n my partner have a disabled berth from Lon Eus to Inverness next month. Very excited but I've heard like you did the noise n lack of ride quality with the bogles. I can sleep anywhere me but not my partner. We're hoping she gets some sleep! You should try the seats on the Night Riveria one day although I appreciate its along way from home. Another great video though.
I have done a few sleeper trips over the years in Europe and the USA. Europe is the best value as the US fares have gone up quite a bit recently but the Calidonian sleeper is by far the most expensive. You can have 3 nights and all your meals included in the States for the price of a room and basic breakfast here.
I used the Caledonian Sleeper in 2010 from Euston to Glasgow.
Like you, I booked a seat as I'm normally a good sleeper and even once managed an 11-hour sleep in economy on a transatlantic flight.
I didn't get a wink of sleep on the train that night. The seat was uncomfortable, the carriage was freezing and I had the pleasure of being in the vicinity of a brash American tourist who, despite repeated requests, spent all night talking and couldn't keep his voice down.
I vowed never to use the service again, and based on your review I'd say it actually looks worse now than it was for me 12 years ago.
Unfortunately, due to a tight schedule, I'm having to break that vow and use the service again in a few weeks.
I at least paid the extra to have a cabin this time. Let's hope it makes a difference.
The seats definitely looked dire, and the price for them only serves to add to the sting! Then again, I feel that if you're travelling on a sleeper train you should go for a couchette or sleeper anyway - just seems like a false economy picking regular seating in that situation.
I used to work on similar years ago , it had 2nd class seats , 1st class seats , 1st class sleepers . The 2nd class sleepers used to be in the consist , when I was a child , and traveled overnight , once in both lots of sleeper , always 1st class seats otherwise . I also used to work an all sleepr service , which was taken off the run , rotted for a few years , then sold , converted to a very expensive luxury service , which now runs between Singapore , and Bangkok - it costs about $5,000.00 USA one way now .
The difference in price is hundreds of pounds
@@chrischarlescook Well yeah, and I'd say it's a personal decision - either spend more money to get a more comfortable journey on the sleeper train, or save your money and pick one of the cheaper alternative methods of transport. If you want to travel on a sleeper train in particular, I feel you should try for a sleeper or at the very least a couchette berth - otherwise you may as well get a flight or a coach, as what benefits seem to be gained from travelling on a sleeper train in the seating coach? On the CS it seems to be an uncomfortable ride, a lack of sleep and arriving in your destination tired and understandably irritated!
The price is extortionate for a sleeper cabin and you don’t get any sleep but at least you can lie down and stretch out. I have done both but I would never go for the seat option again. It’s a ripoff. The seats do not recline and the trains are packed. It’s hot, noisy and unbearable. Like a punishment.
There are no couchettes on UK trains
Thanks for doing this Scott, so we don't have to. I would've expected the seats and the legroom to be better for a trip like this and for the price you paid, and it's a shame no alcohol was served, I think I'd need a few stiff drinks to make it through the night!
11A is the best seat you'll get on the Sleeper, it's roomier than you think and as a regular London to Dundee Sleeper traveller I feel this video does not do the train justice.
The no alcohol rule came in during Covid, they've just decided to keep the rule for the time being.
Ouch! I though I had it bad when traveled coach on Amtrak from Los Angeles to New Orleans for 52 hours. Props to you for putting up up with everything this train threw at you.
Hi Scott. Just discovered your channel. Thoroughly enjoy the videos as a train , plane and ship fan. Keep it going 🙏
Best wishes from Scott in Northern Ireland.
I traveled on this in a seat a couple of years ago , loved the way it flowed in and out of stations with no sensation of stopping or starting away , ok if you have spare double seat to curl up across for a wee nap , my only gripe was the price of a cup of tea from the buffet car and lack of a serving counter there and having to take my tea back to my seat but apart from that quite enjoyed the trip .
did they turn the lights off? .... having Interrailed and being over 50, I remember compartments in carriages with 2 sets of 3 seats facing each other and you COULD turn the lights off yourself. This means you can SEE OUT of the windows at night, and it is much preferable to travelling in a fluorescent tube.
Your night shots at Newcastle looked as though the carriage lights were off?
Went from Eusron to Aviemore on the new carraiges last autumn. I totally agree about the seats, not fit for the job, the previous ones were much better, even if they were 40 years old, it was possible to sleep. The prices on the new service are way too high for me, the bunks in shared cabins were affordable, and quite often I had the cabin to myself. Did they need replacing? Yes, but not like this. Someone got their marketing wrong.
I went from Crewe to Inverness on the sleeper once, an experience I'll never be repeating
Always wanted to do this but I wouldn't do it via the seats! Not in a million years, bus or pay for a bed I say! But kudos to you for doing it!
Good video, from another Scottish TH-camr, mate! I haven't used the sleepers since Serco took over as they have an appalling reputation. I noticed on National Rail this morning that the Fort William sleeper was "cancelled" yet again. I'm glad you didn't bother with the toilet tour as others do this to spin out the video so they get more advert income.
A few years ago I went on an overnight bus in Chile - a third-world country - and the seats fully reclined to 180 degrees with a blanket too. The Serco seated coach is abysmal.
I’ve used the sleeper a few times but always had a cabin, wasn’t too bad. 😊
I have used all the Scottish sleeper services,since around 1980,and much preferred the previous stock..even seating was better than the current stock(which I haven`t tried),hard seats, are the norm these days on trains..and badly laid out..when I saw the seats before they wnet into service, I thought, designed by a computer, not for comfort..it seems Scott has proved the comfort level is not good..I would not pay the inflated price for a berth, and reluctant to pay for a seated journey..yet Cal Sleeper claim it is popular,but I wonder how many return to use it..we built the best rolling stock,and now we have to suffer with foreign imports..Good vid, you have now convinced me, I would rather travel in the daytime..
Thanks for that report after watching many Caledonian sleeper reports and wanting to do this trip for quite a while now I think I’ll remove this from my bucket list and kick it into the bucket, over priced and nothing much seems to work, I remember taking the train with my parents from Stranraer to London and if you were lucky to get a whole compartment you could take turns to lie down in fact my little brother slept in the luggage rack, my parents would probably face a child cruelty charge nowadays, ah well being young didn’t really bother you back then everything was an adventure but now it’s a chore
Only just discovered this channel and absolutely love it👌👌👌
Ive seen more videos about this train and there always seems to be some sort of problem. Even with the top end accomodation. Like no hot water in the shower, no water at all, items on the menu out of stock, things like that.
I've still not tried the new Caley Sleeper. But I quite liked the old one, the the oldie woldie Mk 2 restaurant carriage. (First) ScotRail used to do £19 sleeper tickets incl. a light brekkie. You won't get that value here. Even the old seated sleeper had plus first class-style armchairs.
Remember the old sleeper service pre 1980 . It was brilliant . I used it every week !!!
I have travelled on the old BR sleeper to Glasgow and also enjoyed the luxury of the Auckland-Wellington Silver Star, both of which were in the 1970s, but your excellent video convinced me within the first few minutes that travel on the Caledonian Sleeper would have to be an absolute last resort.
Your seat and the legroom were terrible. These days it seems as if the comfort of the passenger is irrelevant. I used to love train travel, but not any more (at least, not in the UK)
Really enjoying the videos Scott. Very similar to yourself wanting to do the sleeper although I think I might just take the hit and pay for a bed when I do!
Did the midnight 'mail train' from Manchester to Euston years ago. Did it once, never again. Somethings don't change. Ultra uncomfortable for the price of a ticket.
Took the Inverness to Euston via Edinburgh in 2019. was great. got to sleep at about 11, woke up just ouitside Crewe at about 5am . which is normal for me. Get the point about the coach though, and the price
You are MUCH SAFER on the CS than any of the overnight coaches. The clientele on those coaches make me feel so unsafe I'll never travel on them unless I have to. If you have to pay more for the CS - seat or cabin - it is worth it for the safety alone.
I’m pretty sure I couldn’t sleep on a train - unless I took sleeping tablets . Also I don’t mind travelling in day and seeing the views
Why would anyone do this train journey, I checked prices 6 weeks in advance for the end of June when you can fly Glasgow to London Gatwick for less than £25.00 on Easyjet with a flight time of 1 hour 20 minutes. And £12.50 for a 30-minute journey into central London £12.50. That's a total of £37.50. Literally half the price of the train ticket. Taking the double bed cabin on the train might be more comfortable, but the cost of £345 is just for the cabin, and not counting food and drink on the journey. Fly, then spend £200 on a decent hotel bed in London, and the balance on a good meal out in the city. Why would you even consider taking the overnight train?
Some people don't like flying and others simply want to travel different. To me flights are the no brainer choice here
I’ve used the sleeper many many times and agree the new stock is very uncomfortable and noisy. I need to get to Inverness in August and priced the sleeper. Almost £400 from Crewe for two of us. 7am flight from Manchester takes an hour and was £25 each!
Great video. Very informative. How did you get back up to Scotland?
Do all seats have that restriction from the seat in front or were you just awfy unlucky? If there was no such restriction would it still have been a dire experience?
Tbh I’ve payed as little as £20 from london to Edinburgh on the cali sleeper In a seat. The old coaches the MK2/3 where actually ok they had decent recline and where actually really soft and sprung unlike the ironing board seats they have now
to be fair i dont think the seated area is meant to be for sleeping. Get the cabin if you want to sleep
We should always be wary of calling for the scrapping of older stock, as quite often the new stock brought in to replace it is much, much worse.
I have no idea what's going on with the rattle from the bogies there but it sounds like it does this throughout the train? Terrible design!
The old MK2 seated coach was extremely comfortable. The seats reclined further, had good headrests and soft padding with lots of legroom. The lighting was mellow and was turned right down after leaving Edinburgh. I slept well on the seats quite a few times.
It seems our approach to updating stock is to "make it newer" but not consider solving any problems, just create new, bigger problems
Taking one of these Edinburgh to London in June. That trip is £50. Solo seat way in the back. Wish me luck!
Honestly, what were the planners at ScotRail/Serco thinking when they provided uncomfortable seats for a specifically overnight journey? Someone stuffed up big time here, especially when setting the pricing for what seems to be, a sub-standard service.
The fort william sleeper stops at glasgow queen street low leval
one for the team there scott be interesting to know how much a bed cabin would have been for difference 👍
Least £150 one way
Really enjoyed all your videos really interesting x
Thanks for that, I have plans to go to London on the sleeper and was considering the return journey in a seat, not now I won’t
had a seat on the old sleeper ... we had dark blue light all night , some folk slept on the floor .. that was only 45 quid... about 1997 ...far better than the horrible mk5s
11A is the best seat you'll get on the Sleeper, it's roomier than you think and as a regular London to Dundee Sleeper traveller I feel this video does not do the train justice.
Recently used this service from Dundee to Preston, 4/22. Never again . The seat was not built for me at 6ft and 20stone. Solid seat , a menu that I could not purchase from, no staff to talk to. The train from Dundee to Waverley was very noisy. Then the shunting and then passengers from the seats off the highlander moved to the coach on the low lander. By now everyone using seats was wide awake at 1am.
Those seats aren't as bad as I was expecting.I did a trip on it from London to Carlisle in the seats in February and it was far better than the overnight buses.I suspect that as you didn't go via Motherwell you went via Newcastle and cut across to the West Coast Mainline in the suburbs of London to get to Euston.Usually when it's diverted that way it's one train with the Edinburgh section on at Glasgow instead of joined at Carstairs Junction.I've been on it diverted via Dumfries too once but never via the Hexham line or the Settle Carlisle .One good thing is that the Cal Sleeper is hardly ever late as so much slack is built in.
A few years back I travelled from London to Glasgow on the older version of this train. Whilst the interior was a little old and tired (and the heating was broken, so was jammed on full!), I got a cabin to myself for just a bit more than you paid for that seat and got a good nights sleep. I've heard even the cabins aren't great now, as the walls between each cabin are so thin.
The bottom bed is also shorter. The old stock had a 6ft 5in bottom bunk. The new is 6ft 3in.
@@RW-nr6bh - How long (and wide) would the beds be on a GWR Sleeper train from London to Penzance if the 7ft Broad Gauge hadn't been abolished in 1892?
@@KempSimon That's an interesting thought, there would have been more room to play with. I'm just glad that I stopped growing at 6ft 2in.
You didn't confirm if alcohol is available in the seat only option? Is it?
Over an hour to get from the Emirates Stadium to Euston (2 miles), unbelievable. They should have disembarked all the passengers at Kings Cross, then taken the train around the suburbs of N London to Euston.
My thoughts exactly 😂 , could probably walk it less then an hr
Kings cross neither has the platform length or capacity for the sleeper.
I bet the noise from bogies wasn't as annoying as the electronic twang passing off as music. 😀😃🙂
Did this train a couple of months ago. Rattly, uncomfortable and damn near impossible to sleep. The stupid passenger safes had no use and were unused, except possibly as bins because the carriages effectively have no bin. Well, there was a bin in the middle of the carriage but it was well camouflaged and had less capacity than a litre carton of orange juice. For the entire carriage. Also, the foam ear plugs were decorative use only... you'd have more luck just sticking your fingers in your ears...
I was lucky enough to travel from London - Aberdeen on the old sleeper in a room and actually enjoyed it. Nice service, good food and relaxing club car at an almost reasonable price (advance booking several weeks in advance). I've also travelled on the Night Riviera from London - Penzance and that was good, but the food offering wasn't as good. Almost every TH-cam video featuring the CAF coaches on the Caledonian Sleeper has put me off wanting to risk the journey.