What really made James Jamerson so great?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
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► Jack Stratton (Vulfpeck) - For Once in My Life: • JAMES JAMERSON /// For...
James Jamerson, bass player for Smokey Robinson, Stevie Wonder, Martha and the Vandellas, The Temptations, The Supremes and many, many more is one of the most legendary bass players of all time.
But why?
What really set him apart from the rest?
Why would record company giants such as Motown Records actually postpone recording dates until Jamerson was available to cut the track?
Pretty unique, right?
Well, if you look at Jamerson's past, the answers to the above questions are all there.
He had a very unique skill set that gave him the ability to create and execute bass lines and grooves like no other bass player had ever done before.
That's what gave James Jamerson his unique super power, and ultimately why he became one of the most game-changing bass players in the history of modern music.
In this lesson we're going to explore the genius of James Jamerson. You're going to see just how unique and revolutionary his approach to bass playing really was.
As always, see you in the shed...
Scott :)
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I had the unique privilege to meet and become somewhat of a confidant to James in the latter years of his life. James called his technique of playing "The Double-Stop" He'd take a whole note for example and play a combination of 16th's, 8th or qtr notes based on the feel of the song. He NEVER bought new strings. He'd take the old ones and boil them clean. James played with one finger on his right hand and controlled the muting at the same time. I went to sessions with him, carried his Bass or just sat and listened to whatever he wanted to talk about. He was sober when I met him on LaBrea down the street from the old A&M studios. He was also heartbroken about how he and the other Funk Brothers were ignored by the Motown power structure. He told me "For all of the hits I played on, all I have to show for it is a 3flat bldg in Detroit and a Cadillac Fleetwood. He was and still is the standard for bass players world over. RIP my friend.
and as great a musician as Bob Babbitt was...He stood in Jamerson's shadow; like everyone else.
He was the BEST!!! No one can even come close to what he did. Most Bass players today are a joke. He always played those beautiful melodies. His lines are works of Art. I can’t say enough. He was, and remains the best Bassist in the World. In my opinion. To do what you were able to, had to be an incredible experience. Thanks so much for posting about your experience with him. It’s fantastic to know!!!
@@johnhickey8429 with the possible exception of Pino Paladino, I definitely agree.
Michael Julius I consider you one of the luckiest men on the face of the earth!
Charles Drake, don’t forget Paul McCartney!
His bass solo on Marvin Gaye's "What's going on" is simply genius, and the story goes that he was totally buzzed and couldn't even stand up so he played it laying on his back... He wrote the book on playing electric bass. Genius
Marvin gaye - save the children. Check out and good luck.
@@raihanshrk1955 as soon as i heard this i instantly looked it up, incredible work on that track
@@Lagoa_real The bassline though really said the message too.
If you look at the thumbnail picture and video of TH-cam video of James Jamerson What's Going On you can clearly see his 2nd, 3rd & 4th fingers resting on the pickup cover giving more strength & stability to the 1st finger, also he seems to be using his thumb to mute the strings.
th-cam.com/video/7DulLDLzsF4/w-d-xo.html
Wow. I just purchased a Bass. Never played before. Learning more about Mr. Jamerson. Simply Genius.
I bought my bass at the same time as you... how’s it going? Hope you’re having fun 😁 I’m diving deep into Jamerson’s work.
@@DearDrDoom It is progressing well. I love where it is taking me.
@@tjack72052 Do NOT be put off and frustrated when you realize that you can't play like this, but make it an inspiration instead. First time I heard this stuff it was like, crap, I quit! I still can't play it, mind you, but steal everything you can from guys like that and you'll be well on your way to being a good player.
@@nathanwahl9224 I'm late to the party here, but you are quite right, Nathan! When I first started playing bass back in 1972, I was really embarrassed about how crap I was at being 'great'. It was my Mother who told me to "Stop whinging and move on with it!". I did, and had many great players to look up to and I ended up with a couple of different techniques with finger-playing, pick-playing and, after a while, slapping. I ended up loving players like James (funnily enough), John Paul Jones, Paul McCartney, Chris Squire, John Entwistle, just lately Tal Wilkenfeld (she's a gem!) and many others. I see myself now as a bass player that could be described as a thick, rich soup; full of lots of flavour, but indistinguishable to any particular soup. I'm so old now that I don't worry about that anymore.
Facts og 🎶🎵
He was like a song bird on the bass. Sooo much melody. His bass lines are like chatty conversations full of peaks and valleys, questions and answers, arrogance and humility. Never! Ever ever ever never, was there another bass player better than him. Not even close. He single handedly brought bass from the jazz era to the modern era.
I love mowtown basslines, and James Jamerson is the reason I picked up a bass guitar. Quality video.
Same here.
@@StratBurst92 me three.
Now play those bass lines with one finger like James Jamerson!
Having played on twenty three #1 pop chart hits and 56 R&B #1 hits, the GOAT James Jamerson's bass playing laid the foundation for soul music. His sense of rhythm literally dared you not to get up and move your hips. He playing was so funky, you had to open the window and let some fresh air in. With one finger he played virtuoso bass melodies using inversions and jazz style chromatics. He had this fat, thick tone that many bassist have tried to copy, but I have yet to hear again. He is reported to have played on nearly every Motown recording between 1963 and 1968. His infectious bass grooves are the "Motown-Sound". RIP GOAT🐐
There's something in the Detroit water! The sheer number of great musicians that came out of Motown is astounding - like half the world of Jazz, historically. Most of the Funk Brothers were Jazzers. I was lucky enough to call some of the Funk Brothers my friends and teachers, including Richard "Pistol" Allen (drummer on Grapevine) and Herbie Williams (for arranging). Herbie is third from the left in your pic of Stevie and the gang, on trumpet. Thank you, Marvin "Doc" Holladay (Oakland University).
As a teenager in the 1960's I listened to Jamerson and was a massive fan, even though I had no idea who was playing the bass on those records. I can take 2 tracks as examples, "I was made to love her" by Stevie Wonder and "Can't help myself" by the Four Tops. Here we have two of the best songs of the era sung by two of the greatest singers of the era, and made by the greatest producers of the era, and all I did was sing the bassline, as did everone else. Head and shoulders above the rest.
"I was made to love her" carol Kaye?
@@joanstone6740 I said above Jameson played it, if you know different say how you know.
@@TranquiloTrev th-cam.com/video/ynuptADU0JE/w-d-xo.html I remember learning this baseline in one of Carol Kay's books if you listen to it it really sounds like her anyway if you're familiar with her style
@@joanstone6740 Hello Joan Stone, I have heard Carol Kay in interviews, say she played on various Tamla Motown records that I, and everyone else had assumed Jameson played on. I know it sounds very odd for someone of her stature to blatantly lie like that. It could be an error, they could have both played on it. This was not uncommon, and since Jameson was in Detroit and Kay was in Los Angeles they wouldn't have had any connection. The producers would then choose the one they liked the best. This track was recorded in 1967 and so was more likely to have been recorded in Detroit. I have seen Carol Kay's claim that she played on "Bernadette" debunked by someone investigating it. I think it was on "Standing in the Shadows of Motown". Why I think it was Jameson, is that it sounds unmistakably Jameson. I am very familiar with Jameson's style. [Less familiar with Kay's] Yes, lots of other bass players sounded like Jameson. Very few bass players were not influenced by his style. They all tried to copy him. Obviously I was not there witnessing it, but my pedigree is that I was a teenager in the 1960's with a bass guitar trying to copy all the Motown baselines [unsuccessfully mostly] and feel confident it was Jameson.
@@TranquiloTrev I learned a lot of baselines from Carol Kay's transcription books including I was made to love her and I recognize a lot of her signature licks which are present in that particular recording so i'm inclined to believe that it actually is Carol K playing bass on that song
The thing that is hardest to grasp with Jameson,s playing accepting the use of open strings is the timing of when to pluck the notes,it is almost never where you think it should be 😮
He is the reason why the bass became Badass!
@Kay Theo Loool even Jaco can't say that loll
I'm not even a bass player, but I enjoy these videos a lot. And I love James Jamerson's bass lines, so what's not to like? Cheers from Finland and take care Scott, you're doing a fantastic job!
major influence on everybody from John Paul Jones to Geddy Lee and countless others a true genius!
James Jamerson is Jimi Hendrix for guitarist, truly amazing ❤️
Even John Entwistle said that James Jamerson was his biggest influence and a bunch of other double bass blues player.
Only recently did I learn the name behind the bass lines. I was made to love her. Sublime. The man was a genius
So pleased to find this . Big thank you Scott.
Thank you very much! My playing has come on lots since discovering you. Your love of the bass and the coming together of people that music encourages, shines through. Dave
That visual representation of the bassline is a wonderful way to understand it! Brilliant! I can see the rhythmic complexity and melodic travel so clearly now. I'm a guitarist, but I want to be able to record my own basslines, cause I absolutely love the bass. Thanks for this! You're my go to guy for bass lessons
I'm a drummer but can't stop watching this channel. Insanely good content and sooo musical. Thank you for all the great vids!
Because he was a jazzer, he could just dance and skip all over those pop hits. Effortless. His basslines made those hits. This guy is right, he was busy, but always perfect and anchored. He was and still is my favourite bass player ever. I think berry gordy getting jazzers in to play pop was genius; it was effortless for them ( i'll bet a lot of them looked down on these simple pop songs) and it made the songs swing and groove like fuck
I took a clinic on his bass lines not long ago and the slice of sponge under the string trick blew my mind, I'd never heard of that. We all did it in the clinic, it deadens the sustain and allows that percussive feel that helps those complex runs to sound clean. Incredible player.
Thanks Scott. VERY informative clip here on a total genius. For me, this vid revealed that "missing" or "what note was that" note that I could never find. Thru the years as I learned, I noticed that John Paul Jones would play much the same way during the early Zeppelin years with that nonchalant ghost or passing note that would make you scratch your head. He LOVED Jamerson and we can hear this in the first two Zeppelin records. Always enjoy your vids. Thank you Scott.
I discovered this incredible Bass player when I heard Stevie Wonder's " I Was Made to Love Her" Love that song!!
Next up : Stuart Zender,Paul McCartney,Ron Carter,Jaco Pastorius,Geddy Lee,Donald ''Duck'' Dunn,Carol Kaye,John Deacon,Bootsy Collins,Chuck Rainey etc. (PLEASE make this a series)
Michalis Kripasis good call. Love your list , especially the really inventive sympathetic players like zender , Kaye and Macca
How about Ronnie Lane from the faces
Chris Squier, Victor Wooten
John Paul Jones - listen to the bass line in Ramble On
Scott your tone on this is so chewy and rich. Love it.
Early piano playing , jazz background certainly helped him I’d imagine.
Love the way you say he played in the cracks. Perfect way to encapsulate his style
Thanks Scott, that was a great video, I was reading about John Paul Jones and it was mentioned that Jamerson was an influence,,, I'd never heard of him before so your breakdown of him was so very interesting, fantastic bass player, I'm now a fan!
Thank you Scott for this precise and highly informative analysis of the brilliance of an amazing musician, conveyed as ever with your trademark warmth and wit. Lots for us to go away and learn!
Thank you Scott - its probably one of the all time greatest bass lines and I started learning this from the Vulfpek video. Good work
Back in 71, my older brother had come home from school in Cambridge, Mass. for the summer. He brought several albums along with him. I was just starting to play bass when he recommended that I listen to two songs. They were Something by The Beatles and I Was Made To Love Her by Stevie Wonder. It was my first true introduction to bass work Paul McCartney and James Jameson.
Fabulous description of this Motown style of James' bass playing.
PLEASE DO A PART 2. He played on so many songs.
to me, what made jamerson so great was just his ear for melody. he just knew what needed to be played.
His lines harmonize so well... he must have known and internalized tonloads of theory and counterpoint. Of course there is no substitute for personal aesthetics and inspiration. But I feel certain it was built on top of a solid foundation.
@@andrewbarrett1537 I winder what he would have thought of cliff burton
Jamerson shifted the art of walking bass to soul and funk - it's fascinating how stabil his bass lines sound although of the richness of his variations he has in his bassplaying. His ability to play the right note at the right time is extraordinary :-)
He knew what to play and also when & what not to play. Often times that is the hardest thing to do. Once a player becomes somewhat capable they can also be quite dangerous. As busy as JJ's lines were he never overplayed. This is key.
Your video was great! Jamerson was a genius. Its great that you have picked up on the nuance's
of his playing. The trend now of the slap bass style is also diverse. But musically speaking, Jamerson was literally bass playing from heaven!
I love playing bass and been playing for quite some time now, but I've never had any formal music education. I appreciate your efforts because watching these kinda vids gets me educated a bit in playing the bass lol
Another splendid video. James Jamerson was the main reason I took up bass so many years ago. Excellent dissection of the line highlighting his chordal approach which I had not picked up on before. I would very much appreciate a compare/contrast with the other bass player at Motown, Bob Babbit, in a future vid. Cheers.
Its hard to get the feel because he never played according to time. Standing in The Shadows of Motown, it was mentioned “You couldn’t even touch his timing because he could hear another time in his head and be playing cut time against what you playing and it would fit”
Maybe true, but you cannot do that unless you know exactly what the time was; always knowing where The One is. He's not running free, loose or sloppy on his own without references, he just doesn't play exactly on top of almost any of those beats. Everything is based on what the drummer is doing. And if you listen to some of his other stuff, it's hard to tell the drum hits from the bass notes, he's soooo tight with them.
Yessir, I grew up listening to and trying to play his lines scratching up my 45 RPM records moving the needle on the turntable over and over trying to figure out those beautifully played lines on my favorite songs
The smallest modification on the fender headstock and it becomes absolutely horrible. It is amazing every time I see that.
Joe dart is the reason i listen to music and am proud of the music i do make. Jamerson is why i continue to pick up the bass every day.
This was a fantastic video on a TOP Bassist !!!! Great breakdown on technique , gear and very informative.
Wow, more than 5 minutes in and no slapping at all on a bass guitar video. Must be a record. Well done Scott.
Thank you for this video. It has inspired me to go for the next level in my bass playing. I enjoyed the heck out of it.
That whole thing about his recordings simply being direct....that's how you know you're IT. "We just gon put James direct and we're good."
I loved the video Scott! Jamerson was such a unique musician. I'll never be able to touch his capabilities. I would very much like to see you showcase Mel Schacher. I think he has some amazing work with Grand Funk Railroad that has just been buried and overlooked. Anyway, thanks again for all you do for our community.
I love these bass history videos.
Great episode Scott! Mr. JJ is a true legend.
Jamerson's bass line in Save the Children on Marvin Gaye's What's Going On is, along with Jaco's line in Havona, my favorite electric bass line of all time. He was brilliant.
You do a great job educating us, and it's wonderful to learn all those insights over a man who defined the electric bass alongside Jaco Pastorius. I know already that I won't try 'the hook'. I can barely get over open strings between adjacent chromatic notes!
There simply is no way my comments could do justice, with what you just shared with us. I miss the “Hook” with all my heart. He deserved to lifetimes.
Great video,... You did the James Jamerson thing justice!
Quality, quality, quality video Scott. Wish I was bass player.
Hey Scott, This was a really wonderful tribute to James. I was 16 when I first heard "I was made to love her". I was a drummer at the time but soon after started learning and playing the bass. We use to race to see who could get the latest Jamerson bassline down first. After a while, I found that some of the most fantastic work he did was on artist albums on songs that never received any airplay. I hope you don't mind but I'd like to suggest two of the many songs of this category. Hopefully, you've heard them before. 1. "How Long Has That Evening Train Been Gone" from the Supreme's "Love Child" album and 2. "Hey Jude" from another Diana Ross & The Supremes album. The style of the line on "Hey Jude" is different than his usual style. The entire line is based around open strings. The first time I ever heard him play that style was on "Love Bug" by Martha and the Vandellas. It sounds like the style that Willie Weeks made his own. Thanks Scott and I enjoy your vids much.
Dude, this is why YOU are my favorite bass player..Big statement I know, but Jamerson didn't breakdown lines for me to digest in this capacity, nor did any of the other greats. Ive been watching these for a year now and I'm finally going to enroll in the academy. Thanks so much for doing these videos man, truly ground breaking stuff. No doubt one day you'll do a masterclass.
Excellent analysis and video
Only 1 bass player has played on most #1 songs than James Jamerson , he was on 23 # 1 songs. Paul McCartney played on 20 with The Beatles and 9 after The Beatles. Thanks very much Scott for this great video on an absolute LEGEND !!!!!!
Very good! I've always visualised Jamesons' rhythmic style as a pingpong ball skipping along to the tune..certain phrases just blow me away!
Great video Scott. Classic stuff, and I really dig the look and vibe of your Moollon P Bass. Glad you were able to get it back!
Best Regards, G.
Looks like Joollon....
There is some magical quality in the one-finger technique. The way all the notes are equal, there is something soothing in the simplicity of the sound. I can't really put my finger on it. :)
I play bass and James Jamerson is one of my all time favorite bass players. May he Rest In Peace, long live James Jamerson:).
nice as always… love to see a course on Jamerson
I thought Bob Babbit played on "Signed, Sealed, Delivered" That said, I love Jamerson immensely. Much love from Detroit!
Ken Pesick yup, it was Bob Babbitand NOBODY else .. Most get it wrong including Scott sadly enough
@ nonsense .... Bob Babbit played the original one with Stevie.
Many others did afterwards but it was Bob's baseline and nobody elses
It was the incredible bass line for For Once In My Life that grabbed me back in the day - without, of course, knowing what the hell was going on, or indeed who the bass player was.
Thanks Scott ,
for another great breakdown !
I really appreciate Jameson. I grew up on Motown , especially The Jackson Five. I inspired to play the bass listening to Jermaine play on there records only to out later that Jameson was the one playing on some of their early records. Thanks for your expert input on his history and technique. Now I know why so many Motown hits sounds so great. The singers was great, but a big part was the Funk Brothers.
im new to learning about James Jamerson...a lot of learning here. thanks
Hi Scott! One thing that may be important to tell folks is that James played with one finger (plucked). That expands into the fact that he "swept" runs quite often, and it was amazing.
I'm a beginner so what do I know. but I will say this, in a day of slap, pop touch and all other kind of bass playing Jamerson stands out as a real bass player and one I'd love to immolate. great job braking it down. please give us more.
To see the video representation of the bass line was an eye opener of how complex it is.
Brilliant video Scott. Thanks so much!
I can't explain the almost magical experience at 11:38 when you played the open A note... I was transported 50 years back in time, although you had already previously played the exact same phrase in the conventional manner... how can that minute and subtle difference have so much power?
It's scary
Ps I love the graphic illustration in the link
Excellent... Excellent video recognizing a real pioneer in bass guitar art.
Hi Scott. My bass hero is a guy called Gary Thain. He died tragically young, but before he did played with Uriah Heep on a few albums, including the classic 1973 live from Birmingham. Pull that album out and check out Sweet Lorraine. A lot of Jameson type playing - he was a jazz guy too.
Thanks man. Super informative.
Great lesson good to know what Jamerson used to create his sound
He's one of the greats that inpired me to play bass. Prestia, Flea, Pnut, Zender, Paladino, Wooten, Bootsy, Graham, Pastorius, Miller, and so many others are also in the list!
.. The f sharp implying a D7 chord.. "lets not even go there".... Brilliant, Scott! and i know why ... that would be at least a 7 hour video on how JJ would substitute and boldly change things in incredible ways... :) Thanks for this vid, spred the word! cheers, Raoul
Thanks for this Scott, Jamerson is the Bass man for me, and echoing Paul's comment below, also the reason I picked up a Bass.
Great work for bass players! Thanks
The bassline on I want you back is the epitomy of iconic and perfection
That is a beautiful song, like James Jamerson’s own sublime soul bass lines, but it’s Wilton Felder on “I Want You Back.”
Best video I’ve seen in a very long time!!
Awesome Video, very Informative and insightful....thanks Friend....Super Ninja is very cool description of his playing, Ha! Wow! Half Step, Jazz open string accent...great presentation.Note Skipping on open strings...Ha!
Scott you have done an awesome job with this it really highlights how brilliant of a bass player Jamerson was. It would be awesome if there was something like sheet music or tabs to follow along with because I think it would be helpful to have a visual of what is going on.
Keep up these kinds of analysis videos, this is great!
If you check in the description you'll find a link to the tab and notation right at the top
buy the 'Standing in the Shadows of Motown' book - full of very accurate transcriptions
The alpha and omega of bass guitar he could never be duplicated
Jamerson was the greatest electric bass player period. He never abandoned the role of the bass. Bassists like Jaco Pastorious and Stanley Clarke and others played their basses with dazzling technique in order to step into the spotlight. Jamerson's bass WAS THE SPOTLIGHT that he shined on the song itself. Jamerson's bass made songs more great. Those flashy super technique bassists just made the bass sound different.
I'm just seeing this January 2021. Thank you for the history lesson and the instruction, Scott! Better late than never. :-)
Nice video. There are alternate takes of some recordings that are insane! I’m sure the record company was terrified lol
I've noticed in pictures of James playing he uses the pickup cover to rest his 2nd, 3rd & 4th fingers of his right hand, if you put your 2nd, 3rd & 4th fingers of your right hand on a flat surface you find your 1st finger has far more strength & stability compared to not having a surface to rest your other 3 fingers on.
For me. It was the way he utilized open string usage so effortless. Plus he was a fenom upright player anyway. Then on top of it all , he understood chords through piano playing in his youth. Ok. Final. JAZZ MAN. He had the over all understanding of easy chord playing over bass playing in the pop music. Just amazing talent. The hook. One finger plucking. Too good.
Great video. I went from metal to motown because of the genius of Jamerson.
What does that mean?
It means that Jamerson's thick grooves, use of chromatics and melodies inspired me to go from being primarily a metal bassist to branch out and get into motown, soul, funk and jazz style playing.
@@larrymoody9250 That's good. In the 90s I tried to share the greatness of Jameson to bass players I knew, but they were all about flea
It sounds like they missed out but at least you tried.
A little tidbit about the great James Jameson, although he was primarily a motown bassist.When you hear the Sylvers,Boogie Fever...That is the man himself playing on that record.
It would be nice to do a video about John Deacon. I think that he was also a very good bass player, and he wrote a lot of iconic, and genial bass lines.
second this!
Yes! I too second that. Deacon is my god. He's the reason I picked up the bass. Would love to see Scott do this kind of video on him.
I would love to see this as well! I’m also hoping to understand tone better and what Deacon is doing in the simple and memorable bass line in Another One Bites the Dust. How is he getting that tone?!
John Deacon often goes under the radar, but he was a damned good bassist. Listen to his playing on "Millionaire Waltz", how tight he is with it, glued tight to the rhythm and accenting Freddie's sterling piano work.
Like another one bites the dust!
honestly thank you for your years of education! Videos like these are the reason i’m about to keep up with these music school kids! I wish however you stressed the RHYTHM lmao i feel like jamersons rhythmic dictionary is insane
Jamerson was the one that presented true feeling on the bass.. He was my bass hero and there were a few with similar styles . One you should try to find out about is a gentleman by the name of Bill Upchurch who played alot with one of Motowns road bands . Another name that escapes me.
I don’t want to be the Distracted Student but that is a Gorgeous Precision!
very useful video. One gets an impression about that melodic and harmonical sound of Jamersons. I think he was a bassist who stand out of the typical bass role (roots and fifths), but in a melodical way (easier to the ear than jazz).
I started playing bass in 2014 because I wasn't happy with the prospects I was getting as a drummer. I honestly had no idea of what to even play on the bass. I liked Flea and some classic rock but never really knew what I wanted. Once I heard Motown, that all changed. Watching 'Standing on the Shoulders of Motown' changed my life as a musician. I play Bass now in mostly country music with blues and RNB on the side when I can snag it, but truth be told, once I witnessed what Motown was and what it paved the way for in modern music, I could never look away again, and I haven't. I also recommend checking out Northern Soul if you haven't. Lots of treasures in that genre too.
Great lesson!! I love James basslines, specially the rhythm. Could you make some Jamerson Rhythmic Etude ?? That will be awesome!
A great video! James was so good!
Thanks from a lifelong jama fan, Early sixties I was learning bass,I developed a habit of listening only to his bass lines on Motown records.My guy,I was made to love her,heard through the grape vine are good examples
Very cool! J.J. is my favorite bass player!
I did a big study a few years back on the Hitsville, U.S.A. studio. This is from memory so I hope I get it all right. They didn’t use DI boxes per se, instead a complete DI console was built out in “The Snake Pit.” It had several inputs for all the guitars (and Fender bass). Sometimes they might have three guitarists plus bass playing. UTC A-10 transformers were used on each input for the proper impedance going to the board. Each input had a level pot and volume/dB meter that the musicians could adjust for the room monitor, which was a single 15” speaker.
IIRC, the Acme DI you showed was based on the later L.A. setup they used, using Triad A-11j transformers.
DI boxes are relatively simple affairs, so pretty close overall.