I preferred the Guild, brighter articulation. Price is a winner hands down as well. Including the gig bag and pickup. I've owned one and was very happy with the build quality. I play 12 string all the time (solo fingerstyle) and have a few. A real winner is my Furch, unique bridge ,cedar top and walnut back and sides. A tone cannon. Once again the Guild here is a better value. I loved mine.
I agree. The Guild sounded better, at least through recording and these cheap computer desk speakers. As far as value goes I just picked one up off of EBAY, unplayed for $315.00. It will be hard to beat that if sounds as good as this one did.
I had an Epiphone 6 string but it never really broke in. This 12 string sounds like it needs to break in too, if it doesn´t it will never go the whole way.
I am currently gigging (solo acoustic) with an Epi Jumbo Studio 6 string, and an HB jumbo 12 string. I use the 12 string for 3 or 4 songs per set. The HB needed a LOT of work when I got it. I almost sent it back. But I liked the guitar so I had a local luthier in Seattle go to work on it. Shout out to Drew Jones, Drew's Guitar Shop! The action was so high it was unplayable. Drew lowered the saddle and shaved down the bridge. It now plays like butter. Has a rich tone and for a 12 string, it's a joy to play! The funny thing is I have always played dreadnoughts. I was surprised how much I love the jumbo's!
Depends on what you want the guitar to do, IMO. The cheap Japanese imports and Harmony 000s from before the 80s could pull off Leadbelly better than most guilds, I think.
I got mine at Christmas, it comes with Gibson medium strings. It sounded good but went out of tune prety rapidly from both playing and humidity changes. I finally just changed the damn strings after eight months of daily playing. It had become an abomination with weird intonation issues and went rapidly out of tune. Since I put new strings on, I’ve only tuned it that once getting it to pitch and then a sligt adjustment affter hours of playing and it is holdig it’s tuning very nicely now and the intonation is good and more correct. The factory strings sounded fine, it was definitely an impressive sound at first, but lookig back now I realize I should have changed the strings like a month in, not wait for eight freakin months! It has no other issues at all, perfectly playable right out the box etx didn’t need any setup or whatever.
The Epi has excellent string separation for finger picking, but the Guild has a full sound from the Jumbo body. It comes down to what it is you want to get from the instrument most.
@@lynnglidewell7367 wow, my new F2512 E Deluxe has a way eider nevk than my Yamaha 12 string. I have skinny fingers and the Yamaha was making those finger teister chords more difficult. Buy the Guilds' wider neck makes reaching to the bass strings, especially for barring, take a lot more finger strength. It is easier to arpeggiate with a flat oick and fingerpick, though I have to get used to the longer distances with both hands.
Just got a Guild F-2512E, Deluxe...basically the same instrument as you're demoing, just a bit fancier. If you like the looks of the Hummingbird, Cooper, I believe you'd like the look and vibe of the Deluxe. Love the Guild....fantastic sound, great build quality, and a very decent price!
The 250ce is my dream Taylor. I’m a beginner just starting out, so I’m nowhere near ready to attempt a 12 string. But if I could play it and afford it, the 250ce would probably be near the top of my 12 string list. I bet yours sounds fantastic.
I own the Guild 2512. I also own Taylor 355 and 458 12 stringers. And an Epi IBG J-200 six. Jumboes forever. So first off, the nut width on the 2512 is the same as the Taylors at 1+7/8". And the tuning keys are exactly as Cooper described. (Sigh) I played the 2512 in the store and it followed me home. Amazing sound and had a great set-up already. Price was important, since I use it to play in wicked high humidity. Large body laminates are affected a lot less sonically than solid-wood large bodies when the humidity gets gross. And I think 12 strings never sound in tune because of all the conflicting sound waves including overtones going on inside the box. Need two passes to tune them correctly. I tune my 12ers down a semi-tone to D# for less tension, deeper sound, and easier play. Also old habits die hard; used to tune 12s to D back in the day. Guild makes a 1512 solid wood model too, which might make for a better comparison to the Epi Hummingbird 12, though at a slightly more expensive but closer price tag. ;-{ >
I have a bought new Guild G-37 from 1984 and a beat up '67 Gibson B-45. Both have their sound. Years ago I had the lesser Guild brand Madeira 12 string in the same body shape as your Guild. If I recall it was about $400.00 in the early 1980's. From old recordings I hear the brightening vs my Gibson today. Your comparison is great with good details. I like the looks of the Eppiphone, sort of the Gordon Lightfoot 12 string look.
I just bought a F2512E deluxe a couple of weeks ago. Antique Burst.I haven’t played a better 12 string. Had an Ibanez, Yamaha, and now the Guild. Tunes up SO close!. The arch back with reduced bracing projects superbly. Wider neck than my Yamaha 12, which made arpeggios with a pick and fingering finger twister chords more difficult.
The Guild has the history behind and has that nice 12 string jangle but as a dedicated Dread player, I'm drawn to the Epiphone as it has more of that low end oomph I love about Dreads. Great playing Cooper!
Cooper, you're hired! Just the man for the job. GUILD sounds pretty good but the tone on the Epiphone was noticeable at the first strum as well as the last.
Important point to note about most of Guilds laminate back and side guitars is that they are arch backs. Although the Asian made examples are significantly cheaper than the all solid models, the same is not true of the American versions, with the arch backs having a distinctive sonic signature, which is every bit as good as all solid. In my opinion, in this demo, the Guild sounded far better than the Epiphone. Even without the price difference, I would definitely choose the Guild😎
The Guild, like all Guilds seem to, has a brighter more vibrant chime to the tone! Every Guild I have ever played has that bright and chimey aspect to it! The Epiphone seems to be more balanced between the high end and the mid-range! It makes for a more mellow and solid sound! When you are singing the Guild will stand out more between the vocals whereas the Epi maybe not so much!
Because I'm limited to the sound from my phone vs being in the room with them, I have to go with the Guild on this one... Guild has really impressed me lately, if anyone is going to take me away from Martin it's going to be Guild.
When I started playing 12-string guitars I was told to expect to spend half my time tuning it and the other half playing it out of tune. I’m looking for a better 12 now and the Epiphone is a beautiful guitar. The solid wood construction is another plus for the price. Enjoyed the video!
On the cutaway version of the Guild, the f2512ce, the nut width is wider, more like 1 15/16". I've been playing 12-stringers for 50 years, have large but thin hands, and long fingers. The 2512ce is the first 12-string guitar I've owned that's a perfect fit for me--and it's a big factor in comfort and making improvements. Excellent advice about working on striking both strings in each pair solidly & evenly! Overall, your video is a great listen.
P.S.: I forgot to add that, when I bought it, this came with a Fishman under-saddle pickup installed. I'm no fan of that type of pickup and its sound, generally. Early under-saddle pick-ups sometimes were ribbon-style, thin, but didn't raise the action. Modern piezo's look like lollipop sticks, and raise the action significantly. SO...I uninstalled the whole mechanism; tricky work, but when done, the saddle dropped into its bridge slot; voila--PERFECT action! For stage work, either adding a mag-mike soundhole pickup combo or playing through an instrument microphone projects more of the purely acoustic tone. BTW, the originally installed pickup is attached inside by a hot glue gun; can fall off inside--but makes the start of the removal process fairly easy. BTW#2: the arched back adds something fuller to the sound. Overall, it's hard to stop playing it!
You guys always do a great job thanks for helping those of us who never get to go to a real guitar store… I would love to see a comparison of the guild f512 verses 1512
It's easy to read the actual specifications of each guitar, considering that you actually sell them. Back and sides: Flamed maple Top: Solid spruce Fretboard: Pau ferro White dot fretboard inlays Nut width: 48 mm Scale length: 648 mm 20 Frets Pickup system: Fishman GT-1 Bridge material: Pau ferro
So pleased with epiphone very awesome in this price range. Amazing how they can build it for this price. Playability is very good the action feeling really nice. Top semi gloss finish is really nice and maybe seems like cherry sunburst changes depend on lighting.
I did purchase the Epiphone Hummingbird 12 string and it arrived two days ago safe & sound. Comparing it to my old 1967 Gibson B-45 and it is hands down easier to play. The Gibson neck is wider two inches at the nut and a bit fatter. The Epiphone is one and seven eighths wide at the nut. I have fairly large hands, but the Epiphone neck works better for me. Bar chords are achievable with less pain and clearer sounding. The sound of both instruments are different, yet you can tell they are cousins. I have Ernie ball strings on the B-45, and they are over six months old. To do a real accurate sound comparison I would restring them both the same day with the same strings. Should be fun. Thank you guys again for your video. It helped me in choosing the Hummingbird.
What I hear is that the Guild has a boomy bass and jangly highs that somewhat overshadow the midrange. The Epiphone seems more balanced across the spectrum. It all depends on what kind of sound you are looking for, but between these two, I like the Epiphone.
I had the Guild. It made a tremendous racket. I went up-market for a Taylor that plays more easily, sounds even better plugged in, and is built to last. That IBG Hummingbird would have done the job OK though. Just wish that 'burst was darker.
My guess is that body style rather than brand accounts for the sound differences. It would be great if you guys could demo jumbo vs jumbo and dreadnought vs dreadnought
I had this guild 12 string. It got too chimey and jangly. It was also harder to capo up the neck and keep the sound. I now have this very hummingbird epi 12 string. It has a deep,balanced, incredibly beautiful sound. I don’t think the Guild compares, and the solid body on the epi stands out. I’ve had 5 twelve strings, and this has been the best, easily.
The Guild brought back the flavor of the '60s 12 string sound. If you want to fit in with bluegrass players you might prefer the Epiphone. My first guitar was Guild. I love the Epiphone 6 string, especially their parlor series. But for 12 string this 70 year old early rock guitarist must go with the Guild.
Great review and comparison! I would challenge the tuning assessment part however! The tonal complexities come from the double strings an octave apart but tuned as close to perfect as the guitar allows! The Guild needs an uncompromising setup, hours of work, but when it’s there, its truly the best Asian guitar there is and out performs most of the pricy ones! My 2512 has a 1-7/8 nut however! I own Guilds and I’ve demoed the Epiphone,(excellent guitar) but if the price was reversed I would still walk out with the Guild. Thank you
Agreed I think it was kind of amateur when he said it’s meant to be out of tune… I mean, come on, that’s ridiculous, it doesn’t sound good like that, it just sounds wonky as hell and I tell you what, you will know this is an indisputable FACT if you use any kind of effect that octave shifts it through your mic. For example a free ios app called Candle Chorus, put it on with only the low C octave on, and as soon as any pair strings drift from pitch, you’ll hear how truly awful they now sound struck together, all they do is clash and not in any kind of a good way, for some reason wh you can hear it all an octave lower the dissonance becomes much more obvious and once you hear it you will understand that 12 strings are in fact best if the pairs are as exactly in tune together as possible. And pssst, guys, you can use a chorus effect after, while perfectly tuned, and it will beat the sort of randomized chaos chorus of an out iof tune 12 strig!
Both are fantastic sounding guitars having very different tonal characters from each other. I can't decide. The Guild may be 19 20'ths of the Epi based on tonal qualities alone, so being a cheapskate, at 2/3'rds the price, I'd probably go for the Guild. Great review, and playing.
I picked up the Guild F2512 with a Roadrunner case. I found that to get it in tune, I had to tune the bass strings and get those right on with my phone tuner, and then tune the octave strings by ear. Next thing will be to adjust the truss rod , which is located at the end of the fretboard.
Perhaps you should try a Seagull 12-string... they tune beautifully and stay in tune unless subjected to major temp changes. The action is brilliant -- from the factory. But of course, Seagull isn't a "designer" name so I doubt you'll put it to a test comparison...
Me thinks the necks are probably the same weight. The body of the guild and its lower bout act as a counter weight. But seriously great reviews as usual guys - thank you! Really appreciate the in depth looks and engagement with the audience. Definitely one of the best on YT!
Install some white plastic or ebony buttons on the tuning machines to reduce the headstock weight. They both sound nice but I slightly prefer the Guild.
I’m a proud owner of the epiphone. I’ve had it for almost a year now and love it every day. Its playability is incredible and holds tune well and surprises me often. Affordable, beautiful, and durable . Hope to upgrade to a true hummingbird some day ! Thanks for the honest video boys, cheers!
Have you restrung it from the factory strings? What strings do you use now? I’m eight months in and only just changed the strings yesterday lol, it had been sounding pretty bad for at least a few months and the intonation went weird and I didn’t realize it was all due to the strings. But now it’s great again, Ddadario lights, the only 12 pack that GC had locally
I’d rather have very close tuning. The public can’t tell you why, but they like it better. I think there is enough harmonic cancellation/reinforcement (what he calls the chorus effect) in twelve strings to begin with. He’s right about the wider neck. I’m experiencing that with the new guitar from the narrow Yamaha neck. Better for some things, but clumsy for certain fingerings as he said.
I love the current Epiphone acoustic guitars, but, in this one i thought the Guild was slightly better - if we are evaluating sound, alone, and not looks. The Guild has the wonderful contrast that the Hummingbird has, plus it has an extremely charming flange wave in the sound that is quite remarkable. Thanks to y'all, Gentlemen, for the fine contrast video!
I've had bad luck with Guild 12 strings. That bat wing type bridge lends itself to lifting from the top, especially on their budget 12s. Bought two of them. Returned two of them. Saw two more in local shops - both had lifting bridges, despite being "new" instruments. I have the Epiphone IBG Hummingbird 12, and it's really solid. As you say, if you're only playing a couple 12-string songs a night, or using it to record, it's hard to beat. I also have an acoustic and an electric strung in Nashville High Strung. More tools. More options. More input for ideas.
I have recently acquired a Guild D25 12 string (1995) which has Grover machine heads. Mine is fairly neck heavy although not quite as much as your Epiphone appears to be. Therefore I think it probably is the Grovers that do it.
The fact that the Guild punches up to a guitar that costs nearly twice as much speaks volumes. The 2512 has a solid spruce top with laminated maple back and sides, but it's laminated b/c its an archback jumbo. Even my F412 has a laminated maple back. Its a moot point with an archback, imo. I also own an F1512 (solid wood) and the 2512 is still my preferred go-to 12 string of the three. Just love the sound in contrast to my indian rosewood D-55. Something to consider if you're like me, seeking to put some variety in your quiver.
I don't know why, maybe because Guild has maple back, but it's sounds just different, for me better. Hummingbird sounds quality as well, but not touching as much as Guild.
Both sounded great to me. I can only justify a single 12-string in my collection and is currently a Taylor 362e 12-Fret. I previously had a Taylor 150e which is also great bang for the buck.
Out here in TH-cam land the Guild sounds more clear and present. The Epiphone sounds slightly muddy and distant. With price taken into account, Guild hands down!! No decision to be made I feel. Cheers.
I totally agree! The Guild sings open, bright and clear to me. The Epi tone sounds warmer with less clarity. Both guitars deliver excellent tone! Buy the one that sounds the best to you!
Good sounding instruments, gentlemen. Some years ago, I bought an older Washburn Cumberland w/flawless condition @ a fair price. It has a quilted maple back & sides w/solid spruce top. The tone is sweet to my ear. I'll never have the skill like you guys, but I have fun finger picking arpeggios.
I changed my strings for first time yesterday. Seriously took so long unwinding them because the factory strings came wound around a billion times, my hand ached just from doin one side lol. Quicker putting new strings on because I don’t wind them around as much but still a little tricky making sure strings don’t overlap and get stuck etc.
I am always tuned down to D to D. So, thinking of the Guild 8 string Baritone. String with medium strings, the D and G strings double octaves, like a half Nashville tuning. This will keep a good bass response and the jangle from the double octave strings. And, a 1.75” nut.
@OLX kidstaff Taylor has a 9 string available through custom… octave D and G and paired B. Sound great! But +$3500…But, for that kinda cash, has to stay in it’s case humidifying, which is not my style. Also, Michael Kelly makes an inexpensive 10 string, single strings on low E and A. Worth a look.
@OLX kidstaff actually, price is close, $3,00+ … and the Furch 9 string has just one octave string, on the G. The B and high e are paired strings. On the Taylor 9 string, the D and G are octaves, the B paired, and the high e is a single string. I like this better, and the Taylor is a 1.75” nut, and the Furchs are 1.78”…. Guess we can’t have everything? Maybe RainSong will build one for me with the same specs as the Taylor? I have a RainSong Jumbo, and it is killer!
If the epi is the “inspired by” version then you should compare it with the Guild 1512. The epi pro is closer to the 2512. To be fair. And the pro is only $500
Being a complete newbie to guitar playing, I don't know much about either or how much or how much each costs. I actually preferred the sound of the Guild personally... I felt it sounded brighter and more defined. The blending of notes that was mentioned about the Humming Bird may be something that as I continue, I will appreciate more but I really did enjoy the sound of the Guild
Great video, great playing, great sound. Listening through good headphones they sound completely different. The Guild has a very nice high end, the Hummingbird speaks to me more. I liked what sounded fuller to me. But if you needed a guitar for one or two songs, the Guild is a great price. Thank you again for these videos.
Can you tell me what strings you have on each guitar? The Guild sounds so much brighter, crisper and articulate but still has a nice tone on the low end. Is that all in the guitar or possibly different strings?
I used to have that 12 string. Its STIFF to play. Its got a Fender 25.5" scale length. Same as all Guilds. The Epiphone has the standard Gibson 24.75" scale length which is better for a 12 string in terms of stiffness. I own 2 vintage Guild Acoustics and used to own a vintage Guild D2512 (same as Tom Petty), all made in Westerly RI. Even that 12 string was tough to play. ALWAYS go for the shorter scale and tune to Eb or D on a 12 string. ALWAYS.
I tune to 432hz E standard, on this epiphone. It’s perfectly fine, also jsut changed strings yesterday, took all factory strings off together, cleaned it, restrung etc, no issues at all like I’ve heard in the past abot other 12, I really don’t think this one was designed to be limited to being played in D or Eb, though nothig stopping it
I don't know, that Guild has a beautifully wonderful eerie sound when Cooper plays a Dbm at the 7:49 mark. I'm a bit torn between the two. While I like that mysterious and unusually moving sound from the Guild, I am missing the authoritative lower end of the Epiphone. Hmm...
Don't have much to say about these guitars; I am kinda sorta in for a 12-string at some point, but these don't appeal, for various reasons, I will say you two are very congenial presenters and I have started listening to your podcast. Actually found it surprisingly funny.
plus nearly double the price for the epiphone so not a fair comparison compare same price that's the only way to compare seems like me they are trying to trash the GUILD
Some of those harmonics you talk about are the tone woods. Maple isn’t going to have a lot of the harmonics that the mahogany will have. It will give you a “cleaner” more accurate representation of each string, where on some other tonewoods, when you start strumming it can start sounding muddy. Second, even the top of the like 4,000 dollar F-512 maple is a laminate wood, just like the F-412 was. These are Archback guitars, and I am pretty sure there isn’t any bracing on the back, compared to the F1512, which is the solid rosewood back and side version. An argument could be made that you chose the wrong two models to compare. The Hummingbird is 899, the 2512 is 529 or 370 dollars apart. The Guild 1512 is 1049 or 150 dollars apart. In addition, the construction and wood choices are much closer. You normally have really good videos, but it seems you didn’t do your homework this time around
I recently went to a local guitar store here in Cincinnati to purchase a new 12 string. Never owned one, but always wanted to get one. So I get to the store and of course the several that they had were all out of tune. I swear, I spent about 30 minutes trying to get a couple tuned up so I could try them. I got so frustrated that I left without even playing one… ughhhh. Guess I didn’t need one after all. !!
Helpful tip: get a reliable tuner that shows the exact hertz numerical frequency, don’t use the arrow or green red lights at all, memorize the frequencies for each string (keep a reference tuning sheet till you memorize them naturally) and tune to the exact numbers, that’s literally the secret to quickly tuning 12 strings without any issues at all. I use a free app called Key tuner on iOS, I ignore the arrow and jsut look at the numerical frequencies readout and tune that way. Perfectly in tune. If you rely on the vague green red lights or arrows or meters or whatever, you won’t even get any pair in tune together because those have too much margin for error, for example most tuners will show Green even if -5/+5 flat or sharp, which is a nightmare on 12 string, if one octave is -5 flat and the other is +5 sharp, striking both tigether is a dissonant disaster! But if you just use the numbers you get both exact and yknow you get used to the method and can do it quick
I preferred the Guild, brighter articulation. Price is a winner hands down as well. Including the gig bag and pickup. I've owned one and was very happy with the build quality. I play 12 string all the time (solo fingerstyle) and have a few. A real winner is my Furch, unique bridge ,cedar top and walnut back and sides. A tone cannon. Once again the Guild here is a better value. I loved mine.
I agree. The Guild sounded better, at least through recording and these cheap computer desk speakers. As far as value goes I just picked one up off of EBAY, unplayed for $315.00. It will be hard to beat that if sounds as good as this one did.
I had an Epiphone 6 string but it never really broke in. This 12 string sounds like it needs to break in too, if it doesn´t it will never go the whole way.
I am currently gigging (solo acoustic) with an Epi Jumbo Studio 6 string, and an HB jumbo 12 string. I use the 12 string for 3 or 4 songs per set. The HB needed a LOT of work when I got it. I almost sent it back. But I liked the guitar so I had a local luthier in Seattle go to work on it. Shout out to Drew Jones, Drew's Guitar Shop! The action was so high it was unplayable. Drew lowered the saddle and shaved down the bridge. It now plays like butter. Has a rich tone and for a 12 string, it's a joy to play! The funny thing is I have always played dreadnoughts. I was surprised how much I love the jumbo's!
I bought the Epiphone last year and I liked it so much, I just got the six-string version. Both are a great value.
I like how you guys are objective in discussing different brands, with that in mind, Guild has always owned the 12-string
market and still does!
Depends on what you want the guitar to do, IMO. The cheap Japanese imports and Harmony 000s from before the 80s could pull off Leadbelly better than most guilds, I think.
I bought the Epiphone Hummingbird 12 string and I absolutely love it. It’s easy to play and sounds great.
Is the neck stable? Does it hold tuning?? Does the neck needed adjusted a lot?
@@Celticsaint777 it is very stable, no adjustments needed since new.
@@ericoswood1856
That's because you bought it.
I got mine at Christmas, it comes with Gibson medium strings. It sounded good but went out of tune prety rapidly from both playing and humidity changes. I finally just changed the damn strings after eight months of daily playing. It had become an abomination with weird intonation issues and went rapidly out of tune. Since I put new strings on, I’ve only tuned it that once getting it to pitch and then a sligt adjustment affter hours of playing and it is holdig it’s tuning very nicely now and the intonation is good and more correct. The factory strings sounded fine, it was definitely an impressive sound at first, but lookig back now I realize I should have changed the strings like a month in, not wait for eight freakin months! It has no other issues at all, perfectly playable right out the box etx didn’t need any setup or whatever.
Both guitars were excellent... the Guild just has more chime & fuller at the same time.
Don’t let the barebones of the guild fool you ,they play great for the price .sounds better than the epi hummingbird.
I think the eppie sounds better.
I know my Guild is better!
The Epi has excellent string separation for finger picking, but the Guild has a full sound from the Jumbo body. It comes down to what it is you want to get from the instrument most.
@@lynnglidewell7367 wow, my new F2512 E Deluxe has a way eider nevk than my Yamaha 12 string. I have skinny fingers and the Yamaha was making those finger teister chords more difficult. Buy the Guilds' wider neck makes reaching to the bass strings, especially for barring, take a lot more finger strength. It is easier to arpeggiate with a flat oick and fingerpick, though I have to get used to the longer distances with both hands.
You should compare the Epiphone to an all solid Guild like the F1512.
Just got a Guild F-2512E, Deluxe...basically the same instrument as you're demoing, just a bit fancier. If you like the looks of the Hummingbird, Cooper, I believe you'd like the look and vibe of the Deluxe. Love the Guild....fantastic sound, great build quality, and a very decent price!
I just bought that guitar a couple of weeks ago. I haven’t played a better 12 string. Had an Ibanez, Yamaha, and now the Guild. Tunes up SO close!.
There’s something special that takes place when listening to one . The Guild F 2512 sounds great, still absolutely love my Taylor 250ce Thanks Cooper
The 250ce is my dream Taylor. I’m a beginner just starting out, so I’m nowhere near ready to attempt a 12 string. But if I could play it and afford it, the 250ce would probably be near the top of my 12 string list. I bet yours sounds fantastic.
I own the Guild 2512. I also own Taylor 355 and 458 12 stringers. And an Epi IBG J-200 six. Jumboes forever. So first off, the nut width on the 2512 is the same as the Taylors at 1+7/8". And the tuning keys are exactly as Cooper described. (Sigh) I played the 2512 in the store and it followed me home. Amazing sound and had a great set-up already. Price was important, since I use it to play in wicked high humidity. Large body laminates are affected a lot less sonically than solid-wood large bodies when the humidity gets gross. And I think 12 strings never sound in tune because of all the conflicting sound waves including overtones going on inside the box. Need two passes to tune them correctly. I tune my 12ers down a semi-tone to D# for less tension, deeper sound, and easier play. Also old habits die hard; used to tune 12s to D back in the day. Guild makes a 1512 solid wood model too, which might make for a better comparison to the Epi Hummingbird 12, though at a slightly more expensive but closer price tag.
;-{ >
Great reviews. The Guild sounded much more articulate to me.
I have a bought new Guild G-37 from 1984 and a beat up '67 Gibson B-45. Both have their sound. Years ago I had the lesser Guild brand Madeira 12 string in the same body shape as your Guild. If I recall it was about $400.00 in the early 1980's. From old recordings I hear the brightening vs my Gibson today. Your comparison is great with good details. I like the looks of the Eppiphone, sort of the Gordon Lightfoot 12 string look.
Just bought the hummingbird 12 and I’m beyond happy. Thx y’all
I just bought a F2512E deluxe a couple of weeks ago. Antique Burst.I haven’t played a better 12 string. Had an Ibanez, Yamaha, and now the Guild. Tunes up SO close!. The arch back with reduced bracing projects superbly. Wider neck than my Yamaha 12, which made arpeggios with a pick and fingering finger twister chords more difficult.
The Guild has the history behind and has that nice 12 string jangle but as a dedicated Dread player, I'm drawn to the Epiphone as it has more of that low end oomph I love about Dreads. Great playing Cooper!
Cooper, you're hired! Just the man for the job.
GUILD sounds pretty good but the tone on the Epiphone was noticeable at the first strum as well as the last.
Important point to note about most of Guilds laminate back and side guitars is that they are arch backs. Although the Asian made examples are significantly cheaper than the all solid models, the same is not true of the American versions, with the arch backs having a distinctive sonic signature, which is every bit as good as all solid. In my opinion, in this demo, the Guild sounded far better than the Epiphone. Even without the price difference, I would definitely choose the Guild😎
The Guild, like all Guilds seem to, has a brighter more vibrant chime to the tone! Every Guild I have ever played has that bright and chimey aspect to it! The Epiphone seems to be more balanced between the high end and the mid-range! It makes for a more mellow and solid sound! When you are singing the Guild will stand out more between the vocals whereas the Epi maybe not so much!
Because I'm limited to the sound from my phone vs being in the room with them, I have to go with the Guild on this one...
Guild has really impressed me lately, if anyone is going to take me away from Martin it's going to be Guild.
Guild is SHIT
I preferred the brighter, more present sound of the Guild personally, but excellent comparison video guys!
When I started playing 12-string guitars I was told to expect to spend half my time tuning it and the other half playing it out of tune. I’m looking for a better 12 now and the Epiphone is a beautiful guitar. The solid wood construction is another plus for the price. Enjoyed the video!
Get a Guild 1512, you won´t regret it.
@@alejdr Yes, that's a real step up from the 2512. Well worth a look.
On the cutaway version of the Guild, the f2512ce, the nut width is wider, more like 1 15/16". I've been playing 12-stringers for 50 years, have large but thin hands, and long fingers. The 2512ce is the first 12-string guitar I've owned that's a perfect fit for me--and it's a big factor in comfort and making improvements. Excellent advice about working on striking both strings in each pair solidly & evenly! Overall, your video is a great listen.
P.S.: I forgot to add that, when I bought it, this came with a Fishman under-saddle pickup installed. I'm no fan of that type of pickup and its sound, generally. Early under-saddle pick-ups sometimes were ribbon-style, thin, but didn't raise the action. Modern piezo's look like lollipop sticks, and raise the action significantly. SO...I uninstalled the whole mechanism; tricky work, but when done, the saddle dropped into its bridge slot; voila--PERFECT action! For stage work, either adding a mag-mike soundhole pickup combo or playing through an instrument microphone projects more of the purely acoustic tone. BTW, the originally installed pickup is attached inside by a hot glue gun; can fall off inside--but makes the start of the removal process fairly easy. BTW#2: the arched back adds something fuller to the sound. Overall, it's hard to stop playing it!
I love both 12 strings y’all are reviewing but I own the Epiphone DR 212 and I am very satisfied with the feel and the playability of the DR212.
That Guild's body is massive!!!! Great playing as always Cooper!
I prefer the sound of the Guild, but I had really hoped you guys would have used the pickup systems as well.
Wonderful comparison, really fun to listen to. I loved the look and the sound of the Guild.
You guys always do a great job thanks for helping those of us who never get to go to a real guitar store… I would love to see a comparison of the guild f512 verses 1512
It's easy to read the actual specifications of each guitar, considering that you actually sell them.
Back and sides: Flamed maple
Top: Solid spruce
Fretboard: Pau ferro
White dot fretboard inlays
Nut width: 48 mm
Scale length: 648 mm
20 Frets
Pickup system: Fishman GT-1
Bridge material: Pau ferro
So pleased with epiphone very awesome in this price range. Amazing how they can build it for this price. Playability is very good the action feeling really nice. Top semi gloss finish is really nice and maybe seems like cherry sunburst changes depend on lighting.
I did purchase the Epiphone Hummingbird 12 string and it arrived two days ago safe & sound. Comparing it to my old 1967 Gibson B-45 and it is hands down easier to play. The Gibson neck is wider two inches at the nut and a bit fatter. The Epiphone is one and seven eighths wide at the nut. I have fairly large hands, but the Epiphone neck works better for me. Bar chords are achievable with less pain and clearer sounding. The sound of both instruments are different, yet you can tell they are cousins. I have Ernie ball strings on the B-45, and they are over six months old. To do a real accurate sound comparison I would restring them both the same day with the same strings. Should be fun. Thank you guys again for your video. It helped me in choosing the Hummingbird.
What I hear is that the Guild has a boomy bass and jangly highs that somewhat overshadow the midrange. The Epiphone seems more balanced across the spectrum. It all depends on what kind of sound you are looking for, but between these two, I like the Epiphone.
I had the Guild. It made a tremendous racket. I went up-market for a Taylor that plays more easily, sounds even better plugged in, and is built to last. That IBG Hummingbird would have done the job OK though. Just wish that 'burst was darker.
My guess is that body style rather than brand accounts for the sound differences. It would be great if you guys could demo jumbo vs jumbo and dreadnought vs dreadnought
I had this guild 12 string. It got too chimey and jangly. It was also harder to capo up the neck and keep the sound.
I now have this very hummingbird epi 12 string. It has a deep,balanced, incredibly beautiful sound.
I don’t think the Guild compares, and the solid body on the epi stands out.
I’ve had 5 twelve strings, and this has been the best, easily.
The Guild brought back the flavor of the '60s 12 string sound. If you want to fit in with bluegrass players you might prefer the Epiphone. My first guitar was Guild. I love the Epiphone 6 string, especially their parlor series. But for 12 string this 70 year old early rock guitarist must go with the Guild.
Great review and comparison! I would challenge the tuning assessment part however! The tonal complexities come from the double strings an octave apart but tuned as close to perfect as the guitar allows! The Guild needs an uncompromising setup, hours of work, but when it’s there, its truly the best Asian guitar there is and out performs most of the pricy ones! My 2512 has a 1-7/8 nut however! I own Guilds and I’ve demoed the Epiphone,(excellent guitar) but if the price was reversed I would still walk out with the Guild. Thank you
Agreed I think it was kind of amateur when he said it’s meant to be out of tune… I mean, come on, that’s ridiculous, it doesn’t sound good like that, it just sounds wonky as hell and I tell you what, you will know this is an indisputable FACT if you use any kind of effect that octave shifts it through your mic. For example a free ios app called Candle Chorus, put it on with only the low C octave on, and as soon as any pair strings drift from pitch, you’ll hear how truly awful they now sound struck together, all they do is clash and not in any kind of a good way, for some reason wh you can hear it all an octave lower the dissonance becomes much more obvious and once you hear it you will understand that 12 strings are in fact best if the pairs are as exactly in tune together as possible. And pssst, guys, you can use a chorus effect after, while perfectly tuned, and it will beat the sort of randomized chaos chorus of an out iof tune 12 strig!
Both are fantastic sounding guitars having very different tonal characters from each other. I can't decide. The Guild may be 19 20'ths of the Epi based on tonal qualities alone, so being a cheapskate, at 2/3'rds the price, I'd probably go for the Guild.
Great review, and playing.
Great playing Cooper. Based on what I heard, both sound very good, and very different from each other.
I picked up the Guild F2512 with a Roadrunner case. I found that to get it in tune, I had to tune the bass strings and get those right on with my phone tuner, and then tune the octave strings by ear. Next thing will be to adjust the truss rod , which is located at the end of the fretboard.
The Epi sounded great to my ears. I liked the deeper tone but both was good.
Would have been nice to hear the pickups. As that's the way I would be playing them.
Perhaps you should try a Seagull 12-string... they tune beautifully and stay in tune unless subjected to major temp changes. The action is brilliant -- from the factory. But of course, Seagull isn't a "designer" name so I doubt you'll put it to a test comparison...
Me thinks the necks are probably the same weight. The body of the guild and its lower bout act as a counter weight. But seriously great reviews as usual guys - thank you! Really appreciate the in depth looks and engagement with the audience. Definitely one of the best on YT!
Install some white plastic or ebony buttons on the tuning machines to reduce the headstock weight. They both sound nice but I slightly prefer the Guild.
I have the Epiphone Hummingbird 12. They are MINI tuners. I haven't had any balance problems at all. Put on your strap!!!
I’m a proud owner of the epiphone. I’ve had it for almost a year now and love it every day. Its playability is incredible and holds tune well and surprises me often. Affordable, beautiful, and durable . Hope to upgrade to a true hummingbird some day ! Thanks for the honest video boys, cheers!
Have you restrung it from the factory strings? What strings do you use now? I’m eight months in and only just changed the strings yesterday lol, it had been sounding pretty bad for at least a few months and the intonation went weird and I didn’t realize it was all due to the strings. But now it’s great again, Ddadario lights, the only 12 pack that GC had locally
A/B'ing them back and forth, I very much prefer the Guild: deeper low end, a bit more articulate highs (not as thick in the midrange).
I’d rather have very close tuning. The public can’t tell you why, but they like it better. I think there is enough harmonic cancellation/reinforcement (what he calls the chorus effect) in twelve strings to begin with. He’s right about the wider neck. I’m experiencing that with the new guitar from the narrow Yamaha neck. Better for some things, but clumsy for certain fingerings as he said.
I love the current Epiphone acoustic guitars, but, in this one i thought the Guild was slightly better - if we are evaluating sound, alone, and not looks. The Guild has the wonderful contrast that the Hummingbird has, plus it has an extremely charming flange wave in the sound that is quite remarkable.
Thanks to y'all, Gentlemen, for the fine contrast video!
I've had bad luck with Guild 12 strings. That bat wing type bridge lends itself to lifting from the top, especially on their budget 12s. Bought two of them. Returned two of them. Saw two more in local shops - both had lifting bridges, despite being "new" instruments. I have the Epiphone IBG Hummingbird 12, and it's really solid. As you say, if you're only playing a couple 12-string songs a night, or using it to record, it's hard to beat. I also have an acoustic and an electric strung in Nashville High Strung. More tools. More options. More input for ideas.
I have recently acquired a Guild D25 12 string (1995) which has Grover machine heads. Mine is fairly neck heavy although not quite as much as your Epiphone appears to be. Therefore I think it probably is the Grovers that do it.
I preferred the sound and look of the Guild.
The Guild 12 string USA built is the best sounding!
The fact that the Guild punches up to a guitar that costs nearly twice as much speaks volumes. The 2512 has a solid spruce top with laminated maple back and sides, but it's laminated b/c its an archback jumbo. Even my F412 has a laminated maple back. Its a moot point with an archback, imo. I also own an F1512 (solid wood) and the 2512 is still my preferred go-to 12 string of the three. Just love the sound in contrast to my indian rosewood D-55. Something to consider if you're like me, seeking to put some variety in your quiver.
I actually preferred the sound of the Guild.
Guild 512 is the absolute best if you can swing it!$$
I don't know why, maybe because Guild has maple back, but it's sounds just different, for me better. Hummingbird sounds quality as well, but not touching as much as Guild.
Both sounded great to me. I can only justify a single 12-string in my collection and is currently a Taylor 362e 12-Fret. I previously had a Taylor 150e which is also great bang for the buck.
Any chance of getting the tabs on this? Love it.
Also, really liked the Guild. More output, more complexity. Gorgeous.
Anyway, about those tabs.....
Out here in TH-cam land the Guild sounds more clear and present. The Epiphone sounds slightly muddy and distant. With price taken into account, Guild hands down!! No decision to be made I feel. Cheers.
I totally agree! The Guild sings open, bright and clear to me. The Epi tone sounds warmer with less clarity. Both guitars deliver excellent tone! Buy the one that sounds the best to you!
My thoughts exactly!
Picked up a 2021 pretty much unplayed (mint) second hand version of this for £300 ($370). Incredible value for money!!!
Anyone got any info on what gig bag that the Guild would fit into or are they one size fits all. I've never had to buy the bag before. Thanks.
Good sounding instruments, gentlemen. Some years ago, I bought an older Washburn Cumberland w/flawless condition @ a fair price. It has a quilted maple back & sides w/solid spruce top. The tone is sweet to my ear. I'll never have the skill like you guys, but I have fun finger picking arpeggios.
Washburn makes some very fine instruments and their higher-end guitars really sound sweet!
how long does it take to re string a 12 string ? 2 generations
I changed my strings for first time yesterday. Seriously took so long unwinding them because the factory strings came wound around a billion times, my hand ached just from doin one side lol. Quicker putting new strings on because I don’t wind them around as much but still a little tricky making sure strings don’t overlap and get stuck etc.
For the price I think they both sounded good, great value either way
I strongly prefer the tone of the Guild.
That Guild reminds me of John Denver in his early days. Sure mis the man but, his music will live forever.
I am always tuned down to D to D. So, thinking of the Guild 8 string Baritone. String with medium strings, the D and G strings double octaves, like a half Nashville tuning. This will keep a good bass response and the jangle from the double octave strings. And, a 1.75” nut.
@OLX kidstaff Taylor has a 9 string available through custom… octave D and G and paired B. Sound great! But +$3500…But, for that kinda cash, has to stay in it’s case humidifying, which is not my style. Also, Michael Kelly makes an inexpensive 10 string, single strings on low E and A. Worth a look.
@OLX kidstaff actually, price is close, $3,00+ … and the Furch 9 string has just one octave string, on the G. The B and high e are paired strings. On the Taylor 9 string, the D and G are octaves, the B paired, and the high e is a single string. I like this better, and the Taylor is a 1.75” nut, and the Furchs are 1.78”…. Guess we can’t have everything? Maybe RainSong will build one for me with the same specs as the Taylor? I have a RainSong Jumbo, and it is killer!
If the epi is the “inspired by” version then you should compare it with the Guild 1512. The epi pro is closer to the 2512. To be fair. And the pro is only $500
Thx so much for this- been looking at both these 12’s.
The Epiphone Inspired to by Gibson Hummingbird 12 string has a two way truss rod.
Guild...hands down!
Being a complete newbie to guitar playing, I don't know much about either or how much or how much each costs. I actually preferred the sound of the Guild personally... I felt it sounded brighter and more defined. The blending of notes that was mentioned about the Humming Bird may be something that as I continue, I will appreciate more but I really did enjoy the sound of the Guild
Stringjoy sells a Nashville Tuning set of strings. Works well on a Martin 000-18 VTS!
Guild hands down
I like the deeper tones of the hummingbird
Guild has a cleaner brighter timber
Epiphany bit more bass
Good job!!
Which is easier to play? I own a Martin 6 string d18…narrow frets!!
Martin Martin Martin...but in their absence Guild before Epiphone
Great video, great playing, great sound.
Listening through good headphones they sound completely different. The Guild has a very nice high end, the Hummingbird speaks to me more. I liked what sounded fuller to me.
But if you needed a guitar for one or two songs, the Guild is a great price.
Thank you again for these videos.
wood and shape make the difference ; the guild is a jumbo and maple back and side ! so mush more bright !the Epi is hog and spruce !
Can you tell me what strings you have on each guitar? The Guild sounds so much brighter, crisper and articulate but still has a nice tone on the low end. Is that all in the guitar or possibly different strings?
also wondering about the strings
The epiphone comes from factory with Gibson mediums 12-string pack, mine did anyway bought at Christmas time
Tuning the strings pales into insignificance when compared to changing the strings!
I used to have that 12 string. Its STIFF to play. Its got a Fender 25.5" scale length. Same as all Guilds. The Epiphone has the standard Gibson 24.75" scale length which is better for a 12 string in terms of stiffness. I own 2 vintage Guild Acoustics and used to own a vintage Guild D2512 (same as Tom Petty), all made in Westerly RI. Even that 12 string was tough to play. ALWAYS go for the shorter scale and tune to Eb or D on a 12 string. ALWAYS.
I tune to 432hz E standard, on this epiphone. It’s perfectly fine, also jsut changed strings yesterday, took all factory strings off together, cleaned it, restrung etc, no issues at all like I’ve heard in the past abot other 12, I really don’t think this one was designed to be limited to being played in D or Eb, though nothig stopping it
I don't know, that Guild has a beautifully wonderful eerie sound when Cooper plays a Dbm at the 7:49 mark. I'm a bit torn between the two. While I like that mysterious and unusually moving sound from the Guild, I am missing the authoritative lower end of the Epiphone. Hmm...
Don't have much to say about these guitars; I am kinda sorta in for a 12-string at some point, but these don't appeal, for various reasons,
I will say you two are very congenial presenters and I have started listening to your podcast. Actually found it surprisingly funny.
I liked the epiphone better...richer sounding. Guild sounded great too
And what about de Martin DX2E 12?
Can't beat Guild for a 12 string. I prefer the old Guilds when they were made in Rhode Island.
plus nearly double the price for the epiphone so not a fair comparison compare same price that's the only way to compare seems like me they are trying to trash the GUILD
I haven't watched the video yet, but it's going to be the Guild.
I prefer the Epiphone 12-string..sounds warm and bright ❤
I liked the sound of the Guild more.
Some of those harmonics you talk about are the tone woods. Maple isn’t going to have a lot of the harmonics that the mahogany will have. It will give you a “cleaner” more accurate representation of each string, where on some other tonewoods, when you start strumming it can start sounding muddy. Second, even the top of the like 4,000 dollar F-512 maple is a laminate wood, just like the F-412 was. These are Archback guitars, and I am pretty sure there isn’t any bracing on the back, compared to the F1512, which is the solid rosewood back and side version. An argument could be made that you chose the wrong two models to compare. The Hummingbird is 899, the 2512 is 529 or 370 dollars apart. The Guild 1512 is 1049 or 150 dollars apart. In addition, the construction and wood choices are much closer. You normally have really good videos, but it seems you didn’t do your homework this time around
I went through 3 g-2612ce's all of them had neck issues. I was ghosted on the last email with the factory. Returned them all.
Epiphone has a great balanced sound.
Finally!! Been begging for this haha
To my ears the Epiphone sounded more balanced (but could need a little more chime).
Personally I liked a used 2015 Taylor 562 (cedar & Rosewood small body). Their new one is great.
Just picked up the hummingbird 12. What cases do you recommend?
I recently went to a local guitar store here in Cincinnati to purchase a new 12 string. Never owned one, but always wanted to get one. So I get to the store and of course the several that they had were all out of tune. I swear, I spent about 30 minutes trying to get a couple tuned up so I could try them. I got so frustrated that I left without even playing one… ughhhh. Guess I didn’t need one after all. !!
Helpful tip: get a reliable tuner that shows the exact hertz numerical frequency, don’t use the arrow or green red lights at all, memorize the frequencies for each string (keep a reference tuning sheet till you memorize them naturally) and tune to the exact numbers, that’s literally the secret to quickly tuning 12 strings without any issues at all. I use a free app called Key tuner on iOS, I ignore the arrow and jsut look at the numerical frequencies readout and tune that way. Perfectly in tune. If you rely on the vague green red lights or arrows or meters or whatever, you won’t even get any pair in tune together because those have too much margin for error, for example most tuners will show Green even if -5/+5 flat or sharp, which is a nightmare on 12 string, if one octave is -5 flat and the other is +5 sharp, striking both tigether is a dissonant disaster! But if you just use the numbers you get both exact and yknow you get used to the method and can do it quick