The Real Brexit Debate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- As we approach one of the biggest decisions in Britain’s modern history, we explore the options left on the table for the UK: Theresa May’s deal, a softer Brexit, a harder Brexit and a People’s Vote.
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Channel 4 hosts "The Real Brexit Debate” to tackle the key issues that people across the country really care about and considers the genuine options left open for the UK. Politicians from the major parties debate and discuss the outcome they most want.
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Why not have a referendum to ask the people if they want another referendum?
mutantdog or just have a referendum and then the people can confirm the first referendum with their vote. Why are people so scared of democracy
That's the most sensible and _Democratic_ thing i have heard all year :)
Tell that to Corbyn the Eurosceptic!!
@@mendi881 Yeah, because the UK government are a bunch of genius's.
Oh no no no... We need a referendum for that referendum before we can get a referendum.
they should do a debate without an audience because then the viewers can judge their arguments on substance rather than on the number if claps they get
Do you judge someone's arguments on the number of claps they get? I don't.
no but unfortunately alot of the british audience will. Not everyone is as perfect as you I'm afraid.
@@eddevlin72 What a childish reply.
What exactly is so controversial about my comment, i just think we should allow the british public to formulate their own response? please respond as I'm confused as to what is childish.
@@eddevlin72 I was talking specifically about "Not everyone is as perfect as you I'm afraid.", just because the person disagreed with you. Kind of gives your opponent an automatic win, when you stoop to that level when your point is being challenged.
£7bn (after the rebate) is peanuts for what the UK got out of the EU. Largest case of self-harm known to the UK in recent history.
The biggest problem with most of the MP's, they do not know how the EU operate and what their rules say with regard to any country leaving. The EU cannot negotiate with a member country while still in the EU. Therefore we the UK have to be outside the EU before they will negotiate with the UK. The only way we can have meaningful negotiations with the EU is to leave on WTO conditions or at least indicate we are prepared to do so on the 29th March 2019.
All the nonsense spoken by Barry Gardener re -poverty and homelessness etc has nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU as they are all internal issues to the UK.
The only way for the Labour manifesto to get any traction we have to leave on WTO terms.
Caroline Lucas advocated that the vast majority of young voters were for remain -- various studies have shown that when asked most young voters were indoctrinated by their College/ Uni. lecturers in EU propaganda and actively discouraged from finding out about the leave campaign.
Could you provide a link to these studies? And what makes you believe that academics are uneducated about the EU when they literally teach public and EU law
Do you have any idea at al what the WTO terms are? I doubt it or you wouldn't spout such nonsense. For one example only, the EU provides environmental and food standard protections for consumers that the WTO does not. I guess you don't mind chlorinated chicken and mouse droppings in your breakfast cereal...
ITS most young people vote for Common Market only BK 1975 now its not and now same people who Have changed their minds and Vote for leave in June 2016 So Now We R finally got out this EU Nonsense
Well Done Caroline. The only person there who actually makes any sense at all.
@Soloman1001 Probably because the other 3 needed their nannies to wipe the dribble off their chins.
Hi, Jacob Rees-Mogg is a superbrain, he paid his own way to Oxford University, he started standing up for himself aged 12, he's very happily married with 6 little children . He worked very hard to be able to afford to fund himself in politics to give back to people in the nation of Great Britain. He's our inspiration in our West Yorkshire family home. We love him! !!
Unlike the prime minister he can count his own children. What a genius.
Need an actual EU-critical leftist in this debate - the only missing position on this programme as far as I can see.
I thought we had one!??? Lucas is the only one for remain regardless of how many brexiters with victim complexes insist otherwise.
@@siginotmylastname3969 EU critical not in favour
Barry Gardiner.
@Colin Wilson - Not true. They would be centrists and infra-reds, not a genuine socialist among them. If they were, they'd be campaigning for collective representation rights for Greek workers instead of obediently attacking (at the behest of the EU propaganda machine) the generations who clothed and fed them .
My goodness. A second referendum with choice of 'Remain as member' or 'Remain as hostage in the backstop'. Are they nuts??
Yes, they're deluded.
Caroline Lucas says BREXIT IS a project for the right, by the right. Does she even know what the EU is?
FunkyAnimal The Earl of Funkdom you’re suggesting the EU is politically right wing?
Liberal values of freedom of movement of people & goods? The values of pooling together resources & decisions. Of course Brexit was the doings of those on the right.
Caroline is right in that there was no real “lexit” articulated by the left. Brexit was through and through a xenophobic, right-wing fantasy of becoming the next European Singapore or something... and completely tainted by imperial colonial nostalgia. The EU, there is much to criticize there as well, especially in terms of the euro zone and monetary union. But then again the UK had the privileged exception of maintaining its currency and independent monetary policy, so that point is moot. Articulating policy at the regional continental level is very much necessary, of course the EU should become more democratic, but the UK was in fact an extremely reactionary force within that bloc when you consider its voting record. So good riddance, I say. Can’t wait for the Scots to leave you too.
Talk about scripted. Only watched the first 4 audience members and its obvious theyre answers are scripted.
Caroline's referendum question: Would you like to remain or remain in European Union? A: Remain B: Remain
Kshitiz Rai or leave or leave that would be what the people voted for.
Seems Caroline Lucas has the best question and option then...
I'm all for that
@@robertandrewwaite3439 only a good option if you enjoy jack boots on your face.
The only person who is being honest here is Rees Mogg
fr ze different opinions doesn't mean they're not being honest.
Wot the man who's relocated his 2 hedge-fund companies to Eire? You are gullible.
gary morgan - get your facts right - he has not ‘relocated’ he has set up ‘another’ office. Remoaners have a tendency to twist facts to suit their belief system.
Will Malin - good point
Yep. Rees-Mogg who wanted to have a second vote, but forgot about it. He tweeted it. Caroline Lucas had to remind him.
"The real brexit debate" Uhhh it's not a debate when eveyone in the audience is pro remain.
So we know it's an audience with a higher average IQ than that of the UK then......
@@benghiskahn3673 biased
@@benghiskahn3673 what's IQ got to do with it? Would you say Tony Benn had low IQ or Jeremy Corbyn? Because they were anti EU for their whole careers.
How's brexit going now !!!!
@@1ramises Very well actually. Turns out (unsurprisingly) that all the doom and gloom is total bullshit.
This aged well 😂
1 MP from the Green Party in Parliament and yet she's allowed to bring her own audience with her..
And still 1 mp
No deal no problem
They'll be problems alright.
No problems only troubles.
the irony is scary. I saw we throw leavers a squeaky toy so they focus on something else while the adults focus on getting us out of this chaos
Lucas we voted out. Peoples vote is lets rerun until we vote to stay. And what the heck do the greens care for trade and economics.
Exactly, how pathetic that it falls to youtube commenters to debunk the propaganda.
Thanks for this amazing service you provided for people who follow the debate from abroad, I really appreciated it.
Greetings from Italy
We were given a choice, leave or remain, simple, public voted TO LEAVE, we must leave now.
I'm only 8 minutes in but I'm guessing the results are as follows:
1.) Jacob Rees-Mogg
2.) Barry Gardener
3.) James Cleverly
4.) Caroline Lucas
Rees-Mogg is like Iron Man fighting off street muggers.
Matthew Lally did you watch it? If we have a NO Deal our GDP will shrink by 9%. To put that into context the 2008 crash was 2%. Let that sink in.
How could you possibly know that? Do you still believe the predictions? They *never* come true. They are propaganda.
th-cam.com/video/ixFQABe30To/w-d-xo.html
The people voted for the UK to 'leave' the EU and the Oxford Dictionary definition of 'leave' is to "depart from permanently".
Oh so that meas everyone who voted leave wanted a hard brexit? Well then I guess that's that then. That's totally in line with reality.
P Shuckle Nice strawman, to which he said that Leave means leave permanently, which means the UK leaves permanently and never comes back.
To define what people see as leave isn’t what he brought up, so to make a strawman is nothing more than intellectually dishonest.
who even cares what the green party has to say
The media should be totally embarrassed that it’s taken over 2 years to have a “real” debate about Brexit.
If the public had seen this debate earlier we wouldn’t be in this mess. Brexit would have been smothered at birth.
The People's vote are basically arguing no one read the terms and conditions. No we read what was on ballot sheet. DO YOU WANT TO LEAVE OR REMAIN IN THE EUROPEAN UNION. A majority said we want to leave.
I voted Leave - and I was well informed. So if there was another referendum then I'd simply vote LEAVE again. The only thing which has changed for me over the past 2 years is I never realised how biased the politicians are, how one sided the media are and how deluded remoaners are.
Can't wait for the £350m a week to go back into the NHS as promised by the brexiteers
Exactly. We in our ignorance voted stay but we've done loads of research from every stance and we are now fully behind Mr Rees-Mogg!
+jmmypaddy What does Rees-Mogg say on this statistic?
Remainers are delusional? That's rich based on your comment 😂😂😂
Maybe the fact is that mps actually know more about what is in the best interests of the country than the general public.
My pension matures in January and Brexit has destroyed my fund. It was worth every penny to get away from the EU. We joined a common market, we never voted for nor wanted anything more. Parliament never gave the people the chance to reject the EU because they knew the people would vote leave.
The backstop and ECJ continuing jurisdiction isn't Brexit. The backstop would be acceptable if it had a 5 year period and we had the right to leave without EU consent.
As for the people's vote, it took place in June 2016. If remain had won they wouldn't allow demands for a second referendum. They have to realise that we are not going to keep having referenda until we get it right. We voted and they have to accept the result as right.
What happened to no deal is better than a bad deal? The current deal is a bad deal.
We are the 5th largest economy in the world and approached the negotiations like someone begging to join. We should have asked what they give to have access to our economy.
Getting Mogg on was probably the best thing C4 has ever done. He stands alone. A giant amongst mere men.
Hahahha wow he’s really drawn you in, name his actual achievements other than being posh?
@@mwd331 Necroing a 2 year old post. Mogg has principles, not all of which I agree with, but he typically stands by them which I respect.
You need to air the views of all people from various backgrounds, regardless of what you might think of them.
That said, if you think I'm a Tory voter, let alone party member, you are sorely mistaken. If I vote at all, I vote for myself or an independent candidate [I actually defeat Tories locally ;) ]
@@S.ASmith if he has principles, why did he vote for the deal he stood here criticising?
@@adama-k2710 Spinelessness. That and his opinion may have changed in the two year period between my original post and now.
I see you deleted a post about him paying no tax as well?
He does pay tax, and likely a lot more than you ever will. That said, taxation is theft. Appealing to statutory law in a discussion with me is futile as I am apposed to Income Tax as a hold over from the Napoleonic Wars.
.... and about Gibraltar ..... ?
It is part of UK
The problem with this Brexit issue, is that the current day Politicians are a bunch of very incompetent individuals.
Kylie Minogue!!! That came out of nowhere!!!
Absolutely deliberately scripted and purposefully left as the last comment. Channel 4 fake news.
@@frazerduncan356 Saw this comment and knew someone would say he was a plant Give it a rest. Some people have different views to you.
Keith Panton I thought you were gonna say especially as both Tories and Labour are split on Kylie
@@MichaelThomas-op1ts wot
@@frazerduncan356 I can say that Channel 4 had NO idea of the Kylie comment whatsoever before it was made. The comments were entirely the contributor's own. I can say this with more certainty than anyone else because I made the comment! And you accuse Ch4 of fakery? Your comment has no basis in fact whatsoever.
Caroline why would the UK vote out and then vote for a vote???? 😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
So lots of pro Jacob and pro Caroline people in the comments and a few pro Barry people. But not one pro James comment.
Ah its no big deal, this brexit thing will be done easily. Remainers maybe exaggerating ??
Mmmm 6 years later 😄😄
Freedom of movement? I am an American and I can still go to school in Europe. I fail to see why Brexit critics paint it like there will be an impassable dome placed over Europe that the British could not co through.
You'll need visa for that and probably that will not include the right to work in Europe.
The freedom of movement means that EU citizens may move to other member states without visa or work permits.
Yes, you go to school in Europe, you fall in love, you want to bring up a family in Europe, and want to move freely to visit relatives, your children want to go and live in the USA for a few years to get to know their grandparents, and to learn about their father's culture, their heritage, etc. etc. But that wouldn't be so easy, would it? Imagine if you needed to arrange a visa every time you travelled from one State to another in the US? You have full freedom of movement within the United States. At present UK citizens have similar freedom of movement within the EU.
All intelligent people within the UK don't want to leave the European Union, its all the old folk, racists and those on benefits who want to leave, nobody has once come up with what is going to be better, those of us who know the government, know the UK will be turned into a police state with more rules and loss of human rights than the EU ever put on us, food prices will go through the roof and unemployment will be seen on a scale never seen before, don't be fooled into thinking all the immigrants will be going home not for one minute the world is a small place
We voted for Brexit. It must be delivered.
Even if it screws us for a 100 years?
Will Malin even though it won’t? We will be so much better off without the EU.
Miles Clent you don't have a clue how damaging this will be.
If Tories failed to negotiate a batter deal, Labour would fail too because each one of them is weaker than the other.
but the chip shop industry will not be affected
Still clueless the British politicians. You have been giving a very generous opportunity to stop the madness. Stay in the EU and work with us. Greetings from Denmark.
Have the referendum question in essay form and then have parliament debate each and every entry. Seems the most sensible thing to do under the circumstances.
UK R.I P.
Caroline Lucas keeps talking about the young people. Tell me how is the EU helping the youth of Greece, Spain, Italy, France? All have high youth unemployment.
That's because you are not competitive with the Euro. The Euro is too strong for you and too weak for Germany, Netherlands, Austria. The Euro was a mistake, not the EU by itself and not the customs union.
But the UK doesn't have the Euro, so they have to decide in different circumstances.
It's all kept quiet! No one is allowed to know how the EU has damaged people's lives!
Yeah, and imagine how worse off they would be outside of the EU. Being in the EU is the one protection against the wave of right wing populism spreading across Europe.
Caroline Lucas, has an absolutely mental, unrealistic perception of the world. Worse than even the Labour party... and that says alot...
Suggestions for Debate Improvements
1) . Have the audience hold their applause and their laughter
2) Have the moderator be unbiased
3) . Zap the Green Gal every time she interrupts or is disrespectful
4) . Have the Labour Guy in a separate room where his audio feed can be cut off every time he interrupts/laughs/ridicules/gets angry or get a more intelligent and respectful Labour representative
5) . Defend James and Rees-Moggs right to speak. Two classy and respectful debaters!!
WTO
What The Oak
People's vote is remain by the back door. As for young people, who cares what they think. No life experiences to base an opinion upon.
Troll spotted
So sick of "we can take back control of our borders, our money, our laws' nonsense. That argument has been had a million times now, abundantly clear we already had control of those things
Brexit : Turkeys voting for Christmas lol
You're wrong, Turkey has tried for years to get into the EU.
@@iftkhin3317 ...he's talking about food
@@ExistenceAmusement Go ahead and ruin the joke!
1990s: Europhiles: ‘If you don’t join the ERM (Exchange Rate Mechanism) then you will be like turkeys voting for Christmas!’
... As time went on to tell, Europhiles: ‘doh!’
2000s: Europhiles: ‘If you don’t join the EURO then you will be like turkeys voting for Christmas!’
... As time went on to tell, Europhiles: ‘doh!’
2016: Europhiles: ‘If you don’t vote to remain in the EU then the UK economy will crash, you will be like turkeys voting for Christmas!’
... As time went on to tell, Europhiles: ‘doh!’
2018: Europhiles: ‘Brexit: Turkeys voting for Christmas lol’
.... As time will tell, Europhiles: ‘doh!’
This was always inevitable. The EU have been slowly merging countries borders, integrating their financial institutions and soon would be combining the militaries. It’s just a subtle insurgency form of taking sovereignty. The UK won’t be the last to leave. 🧐🧐🧐
Most EU member states seem to be perfectly happy in the EU. Go ask the Baltic countries and Poland whether they want to go back to being in the sphere of Russia and they will laugh at you. Why would any country subject itself to the same amount of self-harm? Also, your facts about borders are wrong. We are not part of the Schengen area, and we were never going to be forced become part of it.
Ont
1. Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Cyprus, Greece and Italy are on the verge of bankruptcy, perhaps you should ask them if they are happy with the EU. I already did, and they hate it.
2. Read what I put about the integration of borders, I didn’t specify the UK, and that’s because the UK was the only one who rightly refused to integrate. The ones who did are all wishing they didn’t.
3. The next countries to leave the EU will be Denmark, Holland and then Estonia (they are part of NATO so will never become a sphere of Russia without triggering article 5 of the NATO treaty so your point is irrelevant).
You do realise that no 'combined military' can happen without unanimous agreement from all member states? Just as Turkey cannot join the EU without the UK's say so, no 'EU Army' can be formed without the UK's say so. (Well it can once we leave of course.)
Paul Mackilligin you answered your own point at the end there when you stated ‘after we leave’. The EU has a way of restricting benefits if you don’t agree to their agenda, and which countries would object to having the UKs army to protect them? You could make the same argument about the EU member states economies, and they have all been integrated into a super state against their will. It’s one big power hungry dictatorship under the guise of democracy.
I must admit, you are really making a resounding success out of Brexit, splendid job, excellent performance.
At least you got your own country divided. I'm interested to see how long the United is in the Kingdom.
No representation from Scotland nor with Westminster’s third largest party. This is a disgrace - I think this just highlights how insignificantly we’re being treated.
Scottish Independence
Who represents you pal.
We cranky.
Rubbish - this was a UK-wide vote. Scotland has its own parliament, the Barnett Formula and helps inflict the West Lothian Question on the rest of us.
Mr Rusty Regarding the WL Question, most Scottish MPs do not vote on English only matters, the SNP never have out of principle. The only time that English Only legislation that doesn’t impact on Scotland is ever voted on has been by Conservative and (more historically) Labour MPs. There’s also legislation and bills proposed within WM that solely affect the other constituent countries of the UK but aren’t devolved to their respective bodies and are still voted upon by English MPs. There’s also specific Legislation that cannot be voted upon by certain MPs, this almost always occurs with Peers in the House of Lords depending on the reason for the Lordship, or depending on English Legislation, will block MPs from Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland from voting. Westminster acts as both UK-Wide and English Parliament in the one building. I’m all for an English Parliament however, as it eliminates the possibility of MPs being able to abuse the double Parliament system to their benefit and block certain legislation, or encourage specific party members from other constituent countries from voting and influencing matters, and also means we’d lose less money from the Barnett Formula.
Regarding the Barnett Formula, this method is in place to the detriment of Scottish Expenditure. It bases the rebate on taxation outwith Scotland’s taxation input, and disregards the tax per capita in favour of a population proportionality. This only, numerically and financially, benefits Scottish tax payers and to the detriment of other constituent tax payers if we pay the least per capita in tax. However, based on HMRC receipts and chancellor budgeting expenditure:
We pay in Scotland £10,700 in tax per capita
The UK as a whole pays £9,000 in tax per capita, outwith Scotland is £8,800 per capita
The Barnett Formula sees us receive an excess of £1,500 based on the rUK tax per capita
This sees us have a total expenditure of £10,300 per head of population
This is a net loss of £400 per capita, or £2.2bn annually
We lose billions in tax from the Barnett Formula, but Unionists would rather you pay attention to the £1,500 more we receive and not the £1,900 we lose
Whilst I agree, this was a UK wide vote. Respecting the 2014 referendum, we voted to remain within the UK, and respecting the 2016 referendum result for the UK will see Scotland leave the EU as the UK, and no second EU referendum as per the 2017 election. However respecting the 2015 election result based on a manifesto and party candidates (voted by a majority of the population) to support a second Scottish Independence Referendum if there was a democratic means to do so, and based on this criteria being met in the 2016 referendum based in Scotland’s result versus the UK as a whole. Democratically, Scotland will leave the EU as the UK, there will be no UK wide second EU referendum, but post-Brexit, Scotland should be given the choice of Independence to rejoin the EU or remain in the UK under Brexit. This outcome matches all the results of every vote since and including 2014’s.
Mogg for pm
@r998
at the moment of that disaster, the last one to leave the UK remember to turn the lights out
Well that’s cleared everything up!!
The SNP are the 3rd largest party in the UK and the largest political party supporting 'remainers'. Why were they not part of the panel?
I don't know much about Brexit or what is going on, but whether you stand with this James Cleverly guy or not, he wasn't treated very respectfully.
As an outsider I`m glad to notice that UK had a long history of backstabbing and finally manged to forge a blade so curled that thrusting forward stabs itself in the back. Squabble more and twist that blade geniuses.
We have a long history of a sovereign parliament too.
And what superiour country are you from ?
@@JonsRegularStuff the uk. If you don't know about the evolution of the UK parliament it's makes for quite interesting reading, the development of common law, the Magna Carta, the Glorious Revolution,etc. Most European nations have top- down constitutions written between the 50s and 90s of the 20th century. The UK is not necessarily superior but its parliament has a long history.
@@CanaryAlien i assume you are replying to someone else. Or using the Remoaner tactic of strawman arguing (putting words in others mouths to avoid actually answering).
The EU is fundamentally flawed and refuse improvements so bye bye.
@@JonsRegularStuff Jonathan Webb i think you meant this comment, and your original comment, for faktuu. I replied to your original comment thinking it was for me. Crossed wires. I tell you my nationality in my original comment.
We did not vote to become poorer,
We did not vote to become richer,
We did not vote for a deal that renegotiates the terms of our membership,
We do not want a 2nd referendum/"People's Vote".
The people's vote has already happened so you will have to come up with a different name for it.
We voted to leave the EU in its entirety. And anyone who doesn't want to honour that decision is an opponent to democracy and has therefore made their position untenable. And so should resign effective immediately.
It's quite impressive how Channel 4 can put trained seals in the audience without them dying from the harsh studio lighting.
Bravo again, Channel 4.
This is my second time watching this, absolutely rich entertainment.
If politicians are unable to do what they were told in the referendum. Then they should all resign and leave politics to people who can.
Gotta love Labours optimism: "we'll just invent a new customs union where we get everything we want and then just tell the EU and they'll just agree and we'll all live happily ever after".
Way to stack that audience with remainers typical channel 4 🤦🏻♂️
I Am NOT surprise about that IN Moaning area channel4 BBC etc
If I'd been told that you can't leave I would not have bothered to vote,it's called the sin of omission.
Let the country be 4% poorer, at least we can have a country a voice and a democracy. Plz dont pis* me off
Musti A but it won’t be poorer. That was the worst scenario.
Well, this is outdated now... especially considering the whole “ON TUESDAY” at the beginning
You can't keep having referendums until you get the vote that you wan't. If people had voted to remain, we wouldn't be hearing anything of this nonsense!
Caroline Lucas is basically saying 'I think we should have a ballot with my ideal outcome and an outcome everyone hates on it, but we should definitely exclude any other outcome because then I might not win.'
I voted to remain but I've changed my mind. Let's get out. I'm quietly impressed by the British people's confidence to say NON to the EU and the way the EU has insulted the UK and its leaders.
My only concern with the leavers is the 17th century squire called mogg..
The crowd are absolutely disgusting.
I give 2 years after Brexit for Scotland to become an independent nation....
Greedst and then have to reapply to rejoin the EU which Scotland wouldn’t be able to as they wouldn’t pass the Copenhagen criteria.
@@Chris-oz9qxI agree with you 3 words to that Lord Have Mercy
@@Chris-oz9qx For one, they will require their own currency first. Secondly, they have a deficit over 9%.
If scots want it thats fine but I think the silent majorty don't - SNP do not represent the majority
Greedst: I hope and pray. Farewell to the Barnett Formula and the West Lothian Question!
Remainer Labour’s MP spoke for 70% of the time. Very balanced as usual, Channel 4.
Nice one C4. Very good debate format in comparison to the normal drivel we get. This format is much more confrontational and gets into the nitty gritty details of each position.
We had the people's vote - called Brexit.
I agree, but I also believe that a society that is largely uneducated about politics cannot make a logical decision about politics. So it was the people's vote, but I don't believe a majority of the british people were in a proper position to make a decision that properly reflects their actual desires. I don't feel I can trust the people's vote when they are voting on a completely unknown thing. This is why we need a mandatory political education. Until then, there is no reason for me to believe that the british public is in a position to understand the implication of their vote.
Brexit is that one comedy relief contestant on X factor that gets through to the finals in spite of not having a good voice or vocal range but gets votes because there's enough people in the world willing to vote because they think the whole thing is a joke
@@nonurbuisness5847 Who determines when a society is 'educated enough' about politics to undertake a direct democratic vote? Because this point is only ever brought up by people who didn't like the result. You either accept democracy or you don't, the people voted and it is not for Caroline Lucas, a journalist or anybody else to tell the dumb filthy peasants what they actually think
@@AngloFPSs I agree with most of what you said. But I think it's pretty clear that General public lack a political education, and I could be wrong, I'm not some super genius who is all knowing obviously. But educating the public about politics is not mandatory, and also not in a lot of politicians best interests. A lot of what they say, I find, is a more convoluted way of repeating what they just said or passing off the question completely. Not only that, but a lot of what they say can be not possible or completely unrealistic, which most people whith a political education can spot. Unfortunately, not a lot of people actually do spot this, leading me to believe that most of the people who don't spot at least some of the jargon lack some basic political education. A lot of people often give me the argumant that teaching people politics is a parents responsibility or their own, but often the parents also have very little education on this. Its not that I don't like the brexit vote, in fact I voted for it, but I also believe that the outcome of the vote, despite my own basic pollitocal education, for these reasons is not representative of the reality of what people would think if they knew a much more realistic outlook on the outcome of the vote, rather than 2 extemes given by two opositions. Even with a political education to a minority of the public, im pretty sure that brexit would still have gone through. Unfortunately, I can't just say that for every vote or for sure.I can't say that, with a better knolage of politics, every past vote would be the same. I can't say that about every future vote. What I can say is that a lot of what people see and base their opinions off is misleading, or extreme.
I believe it would not be in a politicians best intrest to have a pollitically educated General public because that would make them harder to manipulate/persuade. Its just not in their best interest due to this.
Another reason that I believe that the General public is not well educated on politics is due to the backside of a large portion of people on brexit. They voted leave and, in the past month, got a tast of the reality of the situation and decided it wasn't worth it. It wasn't a huge number or people, but enough to worry me.
I also find another reason for this belief to be through my own interactions with people. Often they see the changes happening around them as completely unexpected and completely unnesisary, while they were in reality completely expected, but not well broadcasted by the media. I often also see quite a lot of people confused as to why brexit even started in the first place, as most of them know it's just not simply about imigrants. This in my opinion shows a complete lack of political education, though you are welcome to disagreeing with me.
For these reasons I don't believe the outcome of votes at the moment are fair, even if they turn out in my favor. Im not going to ignore something I see as wrong because it benefits me sometimes.
You brought up about who desides if the public is educated enough, and normally I would say that the education board would. Unfortunately, every teacher I've met so far in my life has agreed (if asked) that the education heads in government don't listen to teachers. I have discussed in depth what they think should be implimented into the education system as mandatory or otherwise, and politics always came up, among other things. For this reason I believe I have it on good authority that the lack of political education is an issue today.
im from Europe and I agree with you ! STOP SENDING MAY FOR A DEAL . don't make deals with us , just leave !!!!
well rehearsed audience would never have guest didn't know channel four done such good comedy.
guessed
I am 70 years old (old enough to have actually watched the Kennedy-Nixon debate of 1960, which was an incredibly good debate) and I believe first of all, that this debate here was over all, on the part of absolutely everyone involved, the best that I have ever witnessed in my entire life. Secondly, One cannot improve upon perfection: Theresa May and Jeremy Corbin could not have helped. Finally, I had never before heard of Caroline Lucas in my entire life. (Even though I know far more about British politics generally and Brexit in particular than most of my fellow Americans). But it's plainly obvious that she is absolutely brilliant. So advice from this aging Southern California surfer (who reads and loves G.E. Moore, Thomas Reid and Dugald Stewart, and counts Purcell, Parry, and Elgar among his favorite composers): Find a way to make her your PM if there is any way possible.
As a Green Party member, I couldn’t agree more
Caroline Lucas is a green party member that has a tiny minority of support in Britain and yet channel 4 managed to fill their audience with her supporters.
“Better the devil you know”
That’s exactly what an abused wife is thinking when she goes back to the husband who just beat her up for the 6th time.
But in what way is the UK being 'abused' by the EU?
thrilla72 my comment is more in reference to people who fear leaving a bad situation because are afraid of facing a big change. All they see are the possible negatives so they put up with a terrible situation.
@@kingbeef5076 I see, my worry is that none of the leavers can give a well thought out plan for the 10 years after brexit.
thrilla72 i think you’ll find that most leavers don’t want a 10 year plan. The main concern for leavers is that the EU is a massively corrupt organisation, and national government is more accountable to the voters. We think we can get the same work done as a group of nations, without the corrupt Eurocrats getting their cut.
In my opinion that is the only difference between leavers and remainers. Remainers think leaving the EU means abandoning all of the projects (Climate, economy, free trade, security, etc.) and leavers think we can do all of the work as a group of nations.
@@kingbeef5076 Well then I'm on the remain side. Unless someone can explain how the government would've done better by us if we were independent?
Even if most don't ask for a 10 year plan it will be called for in the future. It is vital. How much worse off will I be, for how long, how good will it be and when?
17 million "yes" votes are still not 50% of the entire UK electorate. That means less than half of the eligible voters in the UK are imposing their choices on the majority of voters and an even bigger majority of citizens who were not given a choice to vote.
This debate is the result of a Referendum written up poorly. The debate on the meaning of the Referendum is solid proof of that weakness. What must be deduced when the result of a Referendum cannot be clearly interpreted by the people who supported it? The possibility of a very bad outcome is almost assured.
If all citizens are willing to say that leave means the UK must leave NO MATTER WHAT then the issue is clear. Regardless of the "bespoke deal" or no deal or some other mythic deal, the UK is out of the EU.
Starting there, it is clear what is wrong. The UK cannot afford to leave its trading relationship with the EU to chance. There is too much that will be lost and no guarantee the loss can be made up by any future trade deals with farther away countries or farther away emerging markets.
Trying to blame the EU for the very qualities and processes that has brought prosperity and peace to the UK as well as other countries is nonsensical. The imperative action that is pressuring the UK is its own conflicted desire to participate in the EU's blessings but not participate in the responsibilities that make the EU work.
So the UK must take its poor choices and clotted thinking and stand by them or ditch them. That is what the UK must do as its part of the withdrawal agreement. It is nonsense at this point for the people of the UK to think they have much in the way of choices right now, because they don't. Even the Leavers do not seem aware they have practically no wiggle room left at all.
The only two areas of the UK that have any real choices left are the people of Northern Ireland and the people of Scotland. Both can try to withdraw from the UK and either become stand alone countries or merge with another EU country and participate in the EU trade agreement that way. Individual businesses are also given a choice. They can move to an established EU country on the continent if they are a manufacturing company or they can move to Ireland if they are a services country but need employees or businesses in London to be flying commuters.
Leavers must think now about how they will develop ways to counter these choices if they want to keep Scotland and Northern Ireland in the UK. They must also think of ways they can tempt businesses which may want to move to Ireland or the Continent to stay in the UK instead. These are the kinds of future happenings that Leavers must think about. It would be comical to see the people still talking about how to handle the results of a Referendum gone two years old already if it weren't such a serious situation.
C4 mmmm A nice hand picked crowd i see, you end with the Losers Vote panellist and those audience opinions at the end, how weak & that stooge that had the final word, i actually laughed out loud.. The Stage was complete!... so obvious you should be ashamed of yourselves. Well if anyone didn't know the Channel4 position, we do now!
We’ve already had the referendum on leave or stay. We voted leave, the vote now should be hard brexit or soft brexit
Yes Caroline you are right. People voted with not knowledge. Now that we are all well informed we need a second referendum.
Mogg for PM!
Everyone who is loving JRM’s “No Deal” what exactly do you have in mind for the Northern Ireland border? No deal would breach the Good Friday agreement and institute a hard border.
he has explained that already ...did you even listen ...
Listen, There has to be a border somewhere. Either Ireland has a hard border with the EU, which violates the schengen zone, there is a hard border between n. Ireland and Ireland, which violates the goodfriday agreement, or there is a hard border between n. Ireland and the rest of the UK, which violates your countries integrity. Logically the only thing to do is for N Ireland to decide if they want in or out. They can't have it both ways.
@@ThePhantazmya everyone has said they dont want a hard border ....listen to JRM s idea of checks 25 km from actual border ....no need for a hard border
@@vikramnandakumaran2434 All that does is move the border. You still have to stop and get checked, so why does it matter if it's at the border or 25 km away? The idea is to not have to get checked. Well it's just not possible.
@@ThePhantazmya its possible dude ...you just need political will ....
The people that voted to remain for the sake of being richer really should be stripped of any instance of being British
As expected, Jacob comes across as the most rational, common sense, logical person on the panel with the best arguments.
Are you serious?
Who in their right mind would want to stay in the EU after all of this! 😂
Remaining is a good idea its morons who voted leave with racism masked as patriarchy who want out. Im telling you now you'll be wishing we hadn't left when it happens. NOTHING will change other than a sense of pride which is worth nothing.
@@TheMagicalDogex Its remoaners like you that need to get a better criticism than the racist card because it's pathetic. Exactly! "Nothing will change" you said it yourself, so why can't we just be an independent, self-governing nation?!
I do.
What I do know is who will regret the leave afterwards: your workers, especially the many laid-off blue-collar ones in case of a hard Brexit (and nor Farage nor JRM will step in to pay their bills)! Sadly enough, it's gonna be a tragic awakening... But as Trump would put it, "we'll see what happens". In a sense, historically speaking, it will be an interesting and useful experiment... albeit a painful one.
Brexiteers have their view, remainers have their view, but a former Brexiteer advising us to take this deal is just bonkers.
Time for some democracy. Let the people vote on the deal or to remain. Why are the Brexiters so afraid of another vote? Because they know that, having seen the facts, the people will not vote to be poorer. They will vote to remain. We are staying in the EU.
The funniest thing I read yesterday was a hard brexit guy saying having another vote would be anti-democratic.
The only vote should be Teresa’s deal or wto deal. My family & I are aware of a few years of hardship but very happy to be free from the clutches of the eu
Can't you just inflict the hardship on yourself and your family (plenty of charitable causes available to donate to for achieving a net poverty comparable to no deal Brexit) and let the others choose freely?
'few years' 😂😂😂
Spot on Paul...The vote to leave or remain is done ..The only possible second question would be Hard (WTO) or Soft Exit(May)?? Id vote WTO every day.
What is it about the EU specifically that you do not like?
@@thrilla72 you can watch 55 minutes of Yanis at the Oxford Union.
THEN you might be able to work it out for yourself.
Rees-Mogg's political/legislative knowledge is breathtaking. Shame his personal beliefs will stop him ever really using it in a higher position.
@Lolly Logan Well, I really have no stance on whether the chap would be positive or negative for the country, I'm aware he's thoroughly disliked by many, but all of that doesn't much matter to me. What is more interesting and saddening for me is that the man clearly has a first rate mind, no matter what you think of his personal beliefs and it will never get to be used to the full benefit of the country. We need people at that level of intelligence and knowledge, when we don't have them, we end up with average sorts of the May variety in charge and that's no good for anyone.
Jacob Rees-Mogg was the only one that had facts to back up his statements.
Every one else is going on predictions of economic growth and the thoughts of generations to come.
Every economist said the US would be in a recession if Trump got in.
They currently have record growth and low unemployment.
Would people clue up on that guy! He's as bad as Farage. He only wants to profit from shorting the FTSE100.
@@formxshape very much doubt that. He is just not insane. So rather than continue down the path of debt and unhappy towns he like 17.4 million others want to try different direction
@Patrick May lol. That clocks been ticking for years. Debt based currency's mean much to you. Only gold standard works. Basic understanding of money and you understand that simple fact
The people already voted, twice in fact one for Brexit, and then in a GE that voted in a party that said they would honor Brexit, this is beyond tiresome.
But if we had another one we would remain.
I'm in favor of all EU countries having a vote every 20 years, I think it is in the bests interests of all parties and would keep the EU on their toes.
JRM alone against three remainers, a mostly remain audience, and a remain moderator. Wipes the floor with them.
Brexit is being betrayed by cowards in Parliament. We have a remainer PM and a remain (communist) civil servant called Olly Robbins who was in charge of this "deal".
We needed a Brexiteer to lead the country through this, not remoaners who created this mess on purpose, I assume to create calls for a 2nd referendum.
Also, it was unsurprising to see Channel 4 fill the audience with remoaners, and 3/4 of the panel being for remain it seems... what a shock. But as usual the Brexit panelist won the debate here, even with the heavy bias. JRM is a statesmen who handled everything thrown at him with ease.
Someone replied then blocked me before I could see it fully, but I caught the gist. Basically saying there was no question on the referendum about leaving the CU or SM. This is why remoaners didn't understand what they voted for, they didn't pay attention. David Cameron was EXPLICIT in what voting to leave meant. It was also in the propaganda the Government sent to every single home, the referendum pamphlet that told us exactly what will happen if we voted to leave. We were told over and over and over again, like it was a threat, that we would leave the SM and the CU... this is what we wanted. You remoaners might not have understood what you voted for, but it seems we did.
Anyway I'm not here to debate the referendum with you anti democratic losers. You lost, suck it up. Keep crying all you want, I won't respond. I was giving my thoughts on this C4 debate, nothing more.
What utter bull.
@@darrenwithers3628 yeah, wonderful counter point. Remoaner.
@@liammcnulty1987 How else do you counter conspiratorial garbage where right wingers are called Communists?
To a point Jacob Rees Mogg made; The UK’s VAT rate is set at 20% (since 2011) and prior to that at 17.5%. The minimum standard rate set by the EU is only 15%. The idea that the EU is making the UK set its VAT rate higher than it wants to is dishonest and a manipulation of the facts. It is not a policy the UK struggles against. Within the EU the UK is able to reduce its VAT rate, it is domestic UK policy, not the EU which sets it at a higher rate. Jacob Rees Mogg treats facts in a similar way to Donald Trump with the added dangerous ability to wrap his words up in a veneer of “well-spoken” respectability. When dealing snake oil salesman, be careful what you buy.
Give us a vote!
As much as I despise Rees Mogg’s opinions on pretty much everything he’s a very good at sticking to an argument and not looking like a scatterbrained mess
The comments here feel so ridiculous, way too many people seem to be mesmerize by JRM's nonsense. The other 3 at least argue with technical aspects of the situations. Mogg doesn't, he will attack the other 3 positions but he doesn't actually put forth concrete, technical aspect for defense of his Brexit fantasy. And so many people seem not to notice.
...amazing how many "i voted leave but i've changed my mind"-type people that seem to crawl out of the woodwork for such programmes...i mean, i COULD say that "i voted to remain but now i've changed my mind and want to leave instead", but that would be unethical and i'm sure that no-one would do such a thing...
Exactly! Yes! As Mr R-M says, if we want to actually have real democracy, we HAVE to follow how the vote came out BUT, I voted REMAIN but now I would vote LEAVE with a no deal and a hard BREXIT!
People do change their minds. My friend was an ardent Unionist until the brexit vote. He is now a supporter of Scottish independence. I changed my mind a few times over brexit and in the end I decided not to vote on it.
the problem is their are far to many politicians in this country who lack vision for the UK outside this EU dictatorship. we need a political revolution
Young people will suffer??? Compared to what now? Which young people? I have a feeling she doesn't mean native British young people.
Why wasn't one of the questions directed at the audience?
Simple question:- Hands up who voted remain.
We would then see how C4 loaded the debate with a remain supporting audience.
I disagree with Rees-Moog. The UK was already in a Soft Remain mode and not a hard remain.
Apparently the Greens don't understand liner time very well, but if we're going to talk about things remain said wouldn't happen lets perhaps talk about the EU army.