Strangely I'd never seen this video before Ian, but it perfectly demonstrates why the old school pattern disc is king. I was actually in Singapore on the date you published this video!
The phone was offset from the center of the platter. As the phone gets closer to the center, it gets more accurate. I stacked slipmats on the platter so the phone with RPM Wow & Flutter app could be placed exactly over the spindle, and got a speed of 33.37 (ranging 33.35 to 33.38), and a Wow & Flutter 0.04. If I just laid the phone on the platter, so that it orbited the spindle, the speed was farther from 33 1/3, and the wow and flutter was much higher. Since you placed the phone offset from the spindle, I'm not sure this was a fair test of the accuracy of the app.
I agree. The phone has to be placed directly over the center of the spindle for the best accuracy. On my old 1985 vintage Technics SL1200mk2 speed was measured at exactly 33.33rpm which is balls on accurate. I believe this because when I compare to a CD of same music the speed sounds the same. Speed variance however was -.07-.08% to +.05-.06%. The app showed weighted W&F at .06%. I can hear flutter on the inner tracks of some of my records of which I'm not sure is caused by my records, my turntable, or both. I can only hear wow if my records are badly eccentric.
Hah :) This why I like a good vintage turntable with "warts" as some friends on a German turntable forum call the platters with stroboscope markings :) I also modified one of my Dual turntables, a model 1242, with a small transformer in the base, to feed AC current to a bright red LED on the far left side (so it is away from the arm and cartridge), for checking speed and drift. The pulley on these old Dual turntables can be adjusted for speed control, despite having an AC motor. I would in any case recommend to just get a small transformer, a piece of wire, and an LED with the appropriate resistor for connecting the LED to the transformer. This will make for a perfect strobe light, that will make viewing the markings on any strobe disc very easy. This can be very difficult to see with many fluorescent lamps, and incandescent lamps (which are now also illegal in many countries anyway).
Hehheh!!! the "warts"!!! :-D thank you Buddy Owen for coming back again to chat up with me!!! Dual turntables from the past are just superb....very yummy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have seen something with a 1Khz test tone. When the audio device is producing exactly 1Khz measured by an oscilloscope, the device rotating on the right speed.
Hello Jan, after seeing this video I've immediately ordered a Stroboscope Giro Disc from Amazon... I too have used until today the RPM Calculator app on my Xiaomi phone but I'm not sure the measurements were accurate. Thanks for this video and for your great YT channel! A big fan from Italy!
Question. Do you measure the turntable speed with a record on or off? Do you measure with the tonearm on the record or not? These will all produce different results. For example, if I set my turntable speed to 33.5 with the tone arm off the record, then when I put the needle on the first song, the song will play at 33.2. The first third of the vinyl side will play around 33.2, then transition between 33.2 and 33.3, then play for 33.3 for the second third of the vinyl side. Then the last part of the vinyl side it will transition from 33.3 to 33.4, then play the rest of the side at 33.4. So, what's the proper way to measure? If you measure with a stroboscope, is that the same weight as a vinyl record? And if the needle isn't on the stroboscope, your speed test isn't going to be accurate because having the needle in a certain position on the record will affect the speed. So just wondering what is the proper way to measure speed?
I have led lamps in my house the 60cycle US current doesn’t give me a reading on the visual gages, I used iPhone 7 with RPM in the center of plater and get the best reading I can. You do great work thank you.
Very nice demo Ian. I'll look to do the same since with my next set of tests on my turntable since the Stroboscopic discs are relatively inexpensive to buy.
oh yes Paul! I wanted to message you earlier to tell you that I have planned to do this video 3 months ago when my audiophile friend Mr Yeo who passed me this stroboscope disc to ensure my correct platter speed as he has a few extras... so after I watched your video on the Rega drive belts....i felt a bit shy to want to continue to do this video because i really didn't mean to reflect off on you that you're in anyway wrong to use the phone app... But I know you'd trust me that I did it out of my own plans not bouncing off on anybody... :-) thank you for being such a great friend all the while!!! I have been happilyusing my phone app since I picked up vinyl music playback...up until Mr Yeo passed me this stroboscope speed test disc to properly align my platter speed. Best of regards to you and your family Paul! Glad to hear from you all the time, Sincerely, Ian.
No issues Ian at all and I am happy to learn from others as what I am doing is far from perfect. There is nothing worse in life than naiveté and ignorance. I like you prefer to be more scientific about things and all tools have limits to their accuracy. Precision is another matter altogether. I am curious to see how my iPhone fairs against a strobescope disc. Regardless of the outcome, I'll reference you video when I get around to doing my comparison. Likewise on the regards to the family. Take care.
+BarakaPDub Yes Paul... :-D yes all tools have limits. My friend bought the Dr Feickert Adjust+ to hope to align perfect Azimuth but in the end he ended up opting to use the Fozgometer due to ease of use. I also think that the gyroscope within the different phones would have varying degrees of accuracy e.g. iPhone 5, 6, 6s, 6s plus, Huawei, Galaxy S5, S6, Note 5, HTC, Xiaomi, etc... :-D I believe some would be more correct than others!!! If my good audiophile friend Mr Yeo has not given me a free Stroboscope Speed Test Disc because he has a few, I wouldn't know my Samsung S6 isn't entirely correct with the phone app's "calculating powers" for revolutions per minute. :-D look forward again to your encyclopedia worth of knowledge on Jazz and pressings... and I enjoy all that goodwill and warmth emanating from your heart towards all other Vinyl Community friends!!! Best Regards! from Ian.
Hello, i was just watching your video, i am wondering, if you have used some strobe light during recording the video, because i have tried couple of strobe discs available on internet and they just didnt work, well i havent try A3 format as i dont have a A3 printer. Squares are just blured they dont stop when the speed is correct, as on your video...Thank you for reply in advance
Thank you. Have new 2xperience with the speed box and thought I'd check RPM. I have the same app as you and was disappointed to get readings of 33.1 and 32.2. Feel much better after watching this video. Thank you
Have fun buddy!!! It is good to have a manual speed controller to help things out. Enjoy your vinyl journey my friend :-D.. thank you for catching up! Warmest Regards :-D ! ~ ian.
HiViNyws channel great to hear from you Ian. Thoroughly enjoying getting back into vinyl and have watched so many of your great videos which are a huge help. Was going to get arcam rphono to match arcam amp but instead got a schiit mani after you recommended it. OH MY GOODNESS what a great sound from such a little box. You have saved me £250 and given me better sound. Thank you.
Michael Barrett Dear Buddy Michael😄you are very welcomed!!! We deserve the very best😁😁😁💪🎶🎶🎶!!! See you again Buddy...i feel so happy hearing about your getting the MUCH better Mani over the rPhono. Wise choice 👍😄✌!!
Cool thanks for posting I need one I'm still working on getting my Yamaha YP-B4 to the right speed. I can't find any manuals or service manuals for this model, and I'm still not sure if the motor is supposed to be hanging, I have the C-clips then red washers, then rubber motor mounts then the motor & pulley & belt.
Interesting test and, like some of the others, I've always been curious about the accuracy of those phone apps. However, what REALLY surprises me is that you hear such a noticeable difference on a 0.1 RPM deviation. I'm not sure I could hear that, but then again I've never done an A/B RPM test before. My older Rega runs faster than 0.1 RPMs from 33.3 and I don't really notice. Perhaps one day I'll get a second turntable and see if I can tell the difference. As always, thank you SOOOOOOOOO much for your outstanding videos. You are a VC Superstar, without question. Cheers!
This assumes your local power grid operates at exactly 50Hz. There's clearly room for error here, quick audiophile community, take to the streets - towards the power plants!
Hello Ian. I've have that app and mine reads about the same (33.1-33.2). What's your opinion on record clamps vs weights. Which one is better? I'm concerned that the extra weight might put stress on the motor over time. Thanks.
I usually set the speed slightly faster than 33.3 as shown on the strobe or phone apps, to allow for stylus drag when the needle is dropped on the record during play.
Hi Ian I did watch your video that u ve a Rega P6 turntable which u love . I have just purchased a P2, on line & delivery from US, which uses a 110V 60Hz adapter to AC supply. I have used a converter to step down 220V to 110V for the connection of the Rega using the adapter provided. However, the Motor runs in a speed slower than standard. Do u know this is a malfunction of the motor or problem caused by power supply adaptation?
The apps are quite accurate. I get the exact same reading with my strobe platter and RPM app to my iPhone. The trick is to balance the phone on the spindle, using e.g. a spindle weight like shown in the video. This way I get 100% similar readings down to 0,5%. The strobe platter gets me as close as 33,32-33,34rpm and then I fine tune to 33,33 using the app while adjusting the speed on my turntable.
So how do you fix it if it is turning too fast, like mine is at 34.18 rpm? It's a new Sony bluetooth turntable. I've reinstalled the belt twice and it's still revolving too fast. What do I do now?
Dear friend, welcome to the vinyl community! Yes, regarding your Sony new BT turntable, i apologize but i think that it does not sport any function that allows the user to alter its speed of revolution. Thank you for catching up buddy! I hope you find a good used mint SL1200Mk3/3D/5 from hifido.co.jp and get from rakuten.co.jp the Ariake UT-030 step-down transformer for your future vinyl playing days :-D
For AC motors, you can buy an external AC generator with frequency control. This will adjust the speed of the motor by changing the AC frequency. Some manufacturer may call it a speed box, or something similar.
Dear Buddy :-D apologies as it was given to me by an audio friend :-D!.... Thank you for catching up over here my friend! Sorry that i did not reply your message a month ago, and only until now. Warmest Regards my friend and have a lovely vinyl music-filled weekend!! ~ ian
Hi In order to be sure that the strobedisc is accurate, you need to get a 50 or 60Hz light. if you're using the grid as your electricity soure the frequency might wobble by ±10%. That means that a strobedisc is inaccurate also, unless you're using some kind of power source with stable 50 or 60Hz AC. Avi
HiViNyws channel A friend of mine also mentioned the difference between the different hardwares i. e. phones and different versions of Android. my conclusion : everyone should calibrate his own phone with a strobedisc from time to time as you did. btw thanks for the time and hard work that you spend on your videos.
" the frequency might wobble by ±10%"? Oh, no, this is completely off base, for several reasons. First, I have certain knowledge of the fact that the power companies know that many people, devices, companies, and processes depend on exacting maintenance of the nominal AC frequency, and strive very effectively to ensure that. This commitment dates from way, way back, when every home and business had electric clocks (some still do) that are powered by synchronous motors, which precisely maintain their speed as a function of the AC frequency; that's why electric clocks never needed to be reset except after losing power - and back to when power stations first became linked into a grid. Second, anyone can deduce from first principles (and, again, I have certain knowledge) that, since virtually every power station in the entire U.S. (and every other country) and much of the rest of the continent are linked by a massive power grid, it is absolutely essential for every single one to maintain the nominal frequency precisely, because disaster would ensue if different power stations started to feed the grid out of phase with each other. In fact, equipment is in place that will instantly disconnect a generator from the grid if it deviates even a tiny bit from the nominal AC frequency. I don't know where you heard what you thought you did, but I have the suspicion that you're confusing frequency with voltage, which is a much less critical parameter and can both deviate from the nominal between different end users, and vary by as much as you say for any given user, depending on many factors. A deep sag in voltage due to air-conditioning demand during very hot weather, for example, produces "brownouts" if generating capacity is overwhelmed. The fact is that if you have a mains-powered fluorescent or other gaseous lamp that cycles its illumination to a sufficient degree with the AC cycle that it is possible to see the strobe effect on the disc markings, that is entirely sufficient and very precise.
This is true. Mains frequency varies all of the time. The electrical companies try to maintain an average over the month. wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/misc/mains.html www.leapsecond.com/pages/mains/
Hi Ian, just wondering how/what can we do to adjust the motor rotational speed since my Rega power is either 33 or 45rpm (ie the Stroboscope speed disc indicate straying too fast/slow) thanks!
Dear Mr Chua, :-) very good question! My Rega RP6 also runs fast!... 33.8rpm! I realised this last year soon after I've gotten it and I asked my local retailer... he said "with great apologies because the Rega RP6 platter motor speed cannot be adjusted... " I didn't pursue the matter further... and seems like the common observation that "Rega turntables run fast." is really true :-D. What is the model of your Rega again? :-)
hello , nice channel ! one last detail , you must check the speed when playing a real record , counting the needle drag . try a small stroob disc on top of a lp .
Very good, revealing demonstration! These phone apps cannot do everything. I believe that we should have specialized tools, and exact methods to test, and adjust things that are hi fi audio. In this case the turntable's exact speed of rotation; 33 1/3, or 45 rpm.
just got an app from apple store with reads the stroboscope for you. you turn this app on and the camera does the work. this type of app is better than the human eye. - new tool to be used w/ the gold standard
Interesting but, once the pickup arm is lowered onto the record causing drag your measurement will be wrong. Better to obtain a smaller strobe disk so you can put it on top of the record, then do your adjustment when the Pickup is lowered and music is playing.
I use a crystal generated pulse circuit to emulate 50Hz to light up a high brightness LED as strobe. The grid is good source of 50Hz and there are no difference. I developed circuits to generate 50Hz 110v ac sine wave to power my Linn or Dual turntables. Some times, you need to check the speed when the record is playing. These are simple circuits, but manufacturers sell at ridiculous prices on the strobe or sine wave power.
No worries Brother!... i have always been using the phone apps ever since I started vinyl playback...and have only been introduced to the use of the stroboscope speed test disc only recently and found it important, meaningful and interesting :-D to share with all of you.... Just my humble efforts. Best Regards my friend!!! Hope to see more of your ranch again! Ian.
Hi Ian. I wonder if you agree with the Rega founder...he said a slightly faster speed is desired. In fact ALL Rega turntables run at 33.4. He got to this conclusion after decades of experience and manufacturing of turntables. I think he's right...on piano pieces playing on inexpensive turntables (say an RP1 or Project Debut) at a precise 33.3 you might hear the notes slippin' away slightly because the speed is not very stable (low mass platter and cheap components such as the belt and beltdrive) With a slightly higher speed these small speed irregularities become harder to hear..rather you just "feel" a certain drive to the music.
SpaghettiKillah Brother with cm5s2/superbAria!!!!!!! 😄🖑hello!!!! sorry brother... having a walk now with my dearest wife and doggie... I AM pondering about your question!!! Thank you for speaking it out loud!!😄🖑 I catch up with you again asap!...
I'm doing very well and for vinyl, I just traded in my Musical Surrounding Phonomenia battery operated phono stage for a Audio Research PH8, I also listened to the PH6, but ultimately decided on the PH8 and wow, it's a detail freak, I also listened to the SimAudio Moon 310LP, which is very, very good with balanced outs.
+szidon mcnulty Wow wow wow!!! What have you got here?!!!!! A NEW Audio Research PH8!!!!!! My goodness what a modern classic! You must be relishing the extreme musical performance from such a high end phonostage, revealing juicy and delicious nuances and musicality for you and your family. I said family because upgraded my vinyl based setup has always yielded smiles on my family members faces as they CAN hear and they WILL appreciate the differences in sound quality and musicality. I am very very happy for you Mr McNulty :-D! Congratulations to your purchase. Not cheap but I'm sure you're comfortable with it!!! Just to let all our friends here know: we are all still able to appreciate great vinyl music played back through a simple Rega RP1 or ProJect Debut or Technics through a Shure 97 or AT95E or Ortofon 2M Red... MM based.... affordable and superb musicality!!! :-) I hate snobs. Some of them even told me that the vinyl magic can only be enjoyed when one spends $20k and upwards on a turntable tonearm & cartridge. Disappointing words from snobs. I regularly play my Rega MM based system through a simple affordable active speaker system (Aktimates) in my room everyday. Enjoy it everyday. Audio Research enjoys a cult loyal following in Singapore as well for many years and this must be because they've been doing it right year after year. Hahaha. .. my local sole distributor for Audio Research is called High End Research!!! Google map it and you'd see its location in downtown Singapore. A very popular hang out for audiophiles in Singapore...as they also retail Wilson speakers, SME kit. Thank you Mr McNulty. Let's keep the passion for the vinyl analogue sound alive.
Great video - many thanks! I wonder if the Smartphone problem is not due to the app but the gyroscope hardware? I used a strobe test disc to set up my turntables (Dual CS 505-3 and Technics SL1210) to run at exactly 33.3333 and 45... but RPM Calculator running on my old Samsung Galaxy S2 reports 32.6 and 44.4RPM, so even less accurate than the readings that you got!!
Yes... probably so Dave!!! You ARE right!!! :-D Paul from "barakapdub" TH-cam channel also did a video on phone apps' ability to measure turntable speeds! :-D Do pop by there and say hi to him too!!! I find it interesting to hear from you and your RPM calculator getting speeds of 32.6 (instead of 33.3) and 44.4 (instead of 45), when the Gold Standard strobe disc measures Perfectly Sweetly for your Dual CS 505-3 and Technics SL1210 at 33.3RPM!!!! :-D THANK YOU FOR SHARING WITH ALL OF US HERE. IT IS INVALUABLE!!! THANK YOU BROTHER DAVE! :-D Best Regards, ian.
I got a pro-ject debut carbon dc and the rpm caltulator shows 33.6 and 44.5. Is it possibled that the app or the phones gyro (LG G3) are off by half a RPM?
Necroguttural Yes my friend :-) it could be that the phone app is off. Mine is as off as well. Mine is a Samsung Galaxy S6. Phone apps are never as accurate as the strobedisc.😄😄😄 May you enjoy your ProJect and years of vinyl record listening!!! - ian
I did the test several times, and with the phone placed on the weight in the middle I got a near correct result ; 33.33 rpm (min 33.30 / max 33.36 ) Wow 2sigma ± 0.07% - test on a Mofi Studiodeck with MoFi Super HeavyWeight. But as said the results are always slightly different when done again.
Yep, my experience as well. Using both strobe and phone app I get exactly same result. Use app to fine tune to exact 33.33 rpm from eg 33.32 using only strobe.
Thank you dear friends Mr Willems and Mr Gabriel :-D for catching up and very kindly, taking time to write and share your experience with all other fellow buddies and friends!!! Warmest Regards to you both, and may you all have a lovely vinyl analogue journey of blissful listening and engagement! ~ ian.
I just used a digital copy of a song (DDD - digital master, digital mixing, digital transfer) I have on vinyl and listened to both songs at the same time, syncing them up. If my record starts to lag behind the digital version than the record rotation is too slow, if it's start to get ahead of the digital version than the record is playing too fast. As soon as it doesn't go out of sync anymore the record player is set at the correct speed. Cause remember... the speed of the platter doesn't matter but the speed of the playback itself (the music). :)
No problem. Since I didn't have a strobe I was thinking and it reminded me of adjusting the pendulum of a grandfather clock. It doesn't matter how fast the pendulum swings, as long as it stays on time. For which you'd use an accurate source to measure against. So I simply applied the same principle, although it came from a rather odd source yet identical source in terms of that they need an accurate tempo... analog clocks with pendulum. Plus best of all... anyone can do it without any need for special purchases and just a bit of spare time. :)
have you any idea of how much pressure you are putting onto the plate? the cell phone is much heavier than a disc + you are putting an irregular pressure stressing the mechanism. Not advisable at all. I'm sure the gyros work perfectly, but using the cell phone like that is no the way to go, maybe with a really high torque machine you could depreciate the mass of cell phone, but i dont think so...
Dear Darren, the stroboscope disc has 3 rings for checking 33.3, 45 and 78rpm at 50Hz of lighting conditions, and 33.3, 45 and 78rpm at 60Hz of lighting conditions. Have fun and keep our vinyl dream alive! Best Regards, Ian.
Like mentioned before, the 50hz is not accurate and can also differ up to 1%, same as the app differs. So your comparison is not really correct. For more info, look at: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/57878/how-precise-is-the-frequency-of-the-ac-electricity-network
Thank you Buddy for telling all of us about it!!! Great link my friend!!! Thank you for your help :-Dand warmest regards! See you soon, anytime! ~ ian.
I avoid turntables that do not have a variable pitch control. It's worth noting that some records are not always properly mastered at 33-1/3 itself and can sound slightly "off" even if the turntable is properly regulated for speed. And sometimes the speed of the original recording itself was not properly regulated when the recording was made. So the proper turntable speed to play each individual record can slightly vary for a number of reasons, including the improperly manufacturing of the record or a slightly off tape speed when it was recorded. But with a variable pitch control, one can adjust the speed according to its PITCH by comparing it to the pitch of an accurate tuner, such as for a guitar or tuning a piano. Those who have perfect pitch can find listening to vinyl at a different pitch than what it was recorded at to be unpleasant, though for the average listener they most likely will be unable to tell if the record is being played at the proper speed. A variable pitch control is also important for those musicians who want to play along with certain records for practice, and the sound of the record must exactly match the pitch of the instrument the person is playing, especially if its the piano. These comments are from a musician's standpoint. But in general, if your platter is spinning as close as possible to an accurate speed of 33-1/3, most of your records will be close to playing at the right pitch. For me, the impact of the music is greater when it's being played at exactly the right pitch, and I've noticed this over many years, and the strobe wheel is the way to go.
Brother :-D thank you for speaking so well and sharing with all of us your wisdom and experience!!! Love them!!!!! THUMBS UP AND MAY THE FORCE be with you! Thank you!!
Hello. Love your channel. The accuracy of the strobe disk depends on the accuracy of the line frequency you're getting where you live. I don't think that frequency is as accurate as you think. Additionally, you're positioning the phone on the side rather than on top of the turntable, this might be an issue. Finally, the clocks on most consumer electronics will be so good that I do not think this is an issue with your phone. Consider this for example: leapsecond.com/pages/mains/
I always wondered about the accuracy of these apps. Now i know.
Good job!
MrVinylObsessive Hi brother🤗! How do you do? Nice to see you around always!!!
Thank you Sir, you have a great channel!
MrVinylObsessive And thanks for Jobim and Sade!!!😄👌and indulging us regularly of your love for beautiful vinyl music!!!
Strangely I'd never seen this video before Ian, but it perfectly demonstrates why the old school pattern disc is king. I was actually in Singapore on the date you published this video!
The phone was offset from the center of the platter. As the phone gets closer to the center, it gets more accurate. I stacked slipmats on the platter so the phone with RPM Wow & Flutter app could be placed exactly over the spindle, and got a speed of 33.37 (ranging 33.35 to 33.38), and a Wow & Flutter 0.04. If I just laid the phone on the platter, so that it orbited the spindle, the speed was farther from 33 1/3, and the wow and flutter was much higher. Since you placed the phone offset from the spindle, I'm not sure this was a fair test of the accuracy of the app.
I agree. The phone has to be placed directly over the center of the spindle for the best accuracy. On my old 1985 vintage Technics SL1200mk2 speed was measured at exactly 33.33rpm which is balls on accurate. I believe this because when I compare to a CD of same music the speed sounds the same. Speed variance however was -.07-.08% to +.05-.06%. The app showed weighted W&F at .06%. I can hear flutter on the inner tracks of some of my records of which I'm not sure is caused by my records, my turntable, or both. I can only hear wow if my records are badly eccentric.
okay okay i will set it tomorrow in the middle of the spindle again and try it this way. Hope to get more accuracy from it :)
Hah :) This why I like a good vintage turntable with "warts" as some friends on a German turntable forum call the platters with stroboscope markings :) I also modified one of my Dual turntables, a model 1242, with a small transformer in the base, to feed AC current to a bright red LED on the far left side (so it is away from the arm and cartridge), for checking speed and drift. The pulley on these old Dual turntables can be adjusted for speed control, despite having an AC motor.
I would in any case recommend to just get a small transformer, a piece of wire, and an LED with the appropriate resistor for connecting the LED to the transformer. This will make for a perfect strobe light, that will make viewing the markings on any strobe disc very easy. This can be very difficult to see with many fluorescent lamps, and incandescent lamps (which are now also illegal in many countries anyway).
Hehheh!!! the "warts"!!! :-D thank you Buddy Owen for coming back again to chat up with me!!!
Dual turntables from the past are just superb....very yummy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for taking the time to put this out here. Will be testing this out later on.
Dear Henry,
:-D thank you for coming by as well!! Have fun along your vinyl journey!!!
Best Regards!!!
I have seen something with a 1Khz test tone. When the audio device is producing exactly 1Khz measured by an oscilloscope, the device rotating on the right speed.
What kind of lamp are you using above? An incandescent, cfl, led?
Hello Jan, after seeing this video I've immediately ordered a Stroboscope Giro Disc from Amazon... I too have used until today the RPM Calculator app on my Xiaomi phone but I'm not sure the measurements were accurate. Thanks for this video and for your great YT channel! A big fan from Italy!
Question. Do you measure the turntable speed with a record on or off? Do you measure with the tonearm on the record or not? These will all produce different results. For example, if I set my turntable speed to 33.5 with the tone arm off the record, then when I put the needle on the first song, the song will play at 33.2. The first third of the vinyl side will play around 33.2, then transition between 33.2 and 33.3, then play for 33.3 for the second third of the vinyl side. Then the last part of the vinyl side it will transition from 33.3 to 33.4, then play the rest of the side at 33.4.
So, what's the proper way to measure? If you measure with a stroboscope, is that the same weight as a vinyl record? And if the needle isn't on the stroboscope, your speed test isn't going to be accurate because having the needle in a certain position on the record will affect the speed.
So just wondering what is the proper way to measure speed?
I have led lamps in my house the 60cycle US current doesn’t give me a reading on the visual gages, I used iPhone 7 with RPM in the center of plater and get the best reading I can. You do great work thank you.
Very nice demo Ian. I'll look to do the same since with my next set of tests on my turntable since the Stroboscopic discs are relatively inexpensive to buy.
oh yes Paul! I wanted to message you earlier to tell you that I have planned to do this video 3 months ago when my audiophile friend Mr Yeo who passed me this stroboscope disc to ensure my correct platter speed as he has a few extras... so after I watched your video on the Rega drive belts....i felt a bit shy to want to continue to do this video because i really didn't mean to reflect off on you that you're in anyway wrong to use the phone app... But I know you'd trust me that I did it out of my own plans not bouncing off on anybody... :-) thank you for being such a great friend all the while!!!
I have been happilyusing my phone app since I picked up vinyl music playback...up until Mr Yeo passed me this stroboscope speed test disc to properly align my platter speed.
Best of regards to you and your family Paul!
Glad to hear from you all the time,
Sincerely,
Ian.
No issues Ian at all and I am happy to learn from others as what I am doing is far from perfect. There is nothing worse in life than naiveté and ignorance. I like you prefer to be more scientific about things and all tools have limits to their accuracy. Precision is another matter altogether. I am curious to see how my iPhone fairs against a strobescope disc. Regardless of the outcome, I'll reference you video when I get around to doing my comparison.
Likewise on the regards to the family. Take care.
+BarakaPDub Yes Paul... :-D yes all tools have limits. My friend bought the Dr Feickert Adjust+ to hope to align perfect Azimuth but in the end he ended up opting to use the Fozgometer due to ease of use. I also think that the gyroscope within the different phones would have varying degrees of accuracy e.g. iPhone 5, 6, 6s, 6s plus, Huawei, Galaxy S5, S6, Note 5, HTC, Xiaomi, etc... :-D I believe some would be more correct than others!!! If my good audiophile friend Mr Yeo has not given me a free Stroboscope Speed Test Disc because he has a few, I wouldn't know my Samsung S6 isn't entirely correct with the phone app's "calculating powers" for revolutions per minute.
:-D look forward again to your encyclopedia worth of knowledge on Jazz and pressings... and I enjoy all that goodwill and warmth emanating from your heart towards all other Vinyl Community friends!!!
Best Regards!
from Ian.
Hello, i was just watching your video, i am wondering, if you have used some strobe light during recording the video, because i have tried couple of strobe discs available on internet and they just didnt work, well i havent try A3 format as i dont have a A3 printer. Squares are just blured they dont stop when the speed is correct, as on your video...Thank you for reply in advance
Thank you. Have new 2xperience with the speed box and thought I'd check RPM. I have the same app as you and was disappointed to get readings of 33.1 and 32.2. Feel much better after watching this video. Thank you
Have fun buddy!!! It is good to have a manual speed controller to help things out. Enjoy your vinyl journey my friend :-D.. thank you for catching up! Warmest Regards :-D ! ~ ian.
HiViNyws channel great to hear from you Ian. Thoroughly enjoying getting back into vinyl and have watched so many of your great videos which are a huge help. Was going to get arcam rphono to match arcam amp but instead got a schiit mani after you recommended it. OH MY GOODNESS what a great sound from such a little box. You have saved me £250 and given me better sound. Thank you.
Michael Barrett Dear Buddy Michael😄you are very welcomed!!! We deserve the very best😁😁😁💪🎶🎶🎶!!! See you again Buddy...i feel so happy hearing about your getting the MUCH better Mani over the rPhono. Wise choice 👍😄✌!!
Cool thanks for posting I need one I'm still working on getting my Yamaha YP-B4 to the right speed. I can't find any manuals or service manuals for this model, and I'm still not sure if the motor is supposed to be hanging, I have the C-clips then red washers, then rubber motor mounts then the motor & pulley & belt.
Paul C all the best my friend💪😊...thanks for catching up Buddy!!!!!!! Great to see you again!! 33.33333333 for youuu!
I wish but I can't get it!!! still runs slow ):!
Did you able to fix the issue? Cheers 🍻
Interesting test and, like some of the others, I've always been curious about the accuracy of those phone apps. However, what REALLY surprises me is that you hear such a noticeable difference on a 0.1 RPM deviation. I'm not sure I could hear that, but then again I've never done an A/B RPM test before. My older Rega runs faster than 0.1 RPMs from 33.3 and I don't really notice. Perhaps one day I'll get a second turntable and see if I can tell the difference. As always, thank you SOOOOOOOOO much for your outstanding videos. You are a VC Superstar, without question. Cheers!
This assumes your local power grid operates at exactly 50Hz. There's clearly room for error here, quick audiophile community, take to the streets - towards the power plants!
Hello Ian. I've have that app and mine reads about the same (33.1-33.2). What's your opinion on record clamps vs weights. Which one is better? I'm concerned that the extra weight might put stress on the motor over time. Thanks.
I usually set the speed slightly faster than 33.3 as shown on the strobe or phone apps, to allow for stylus drag when the needle is dropped on the record during play.
Thanks for keeping it simple and precise
Your phone is acting as a counter weight, it actually corosponds with your strobedisc. Interesting video!
Thank you for your sharing and input too Buddy✌😄🙏
Hi Ian I did watch your video that u ve a Rega P6 turntable which u love . I have just purchased a P2, on line & delivery from US, which uses a 110V 60Hz adapter to AC supply. I have used a converter to step down 220V to 110V for the connection of the Rega using the adapter provided. However, the Motor runs in a speed slower than standard. Do u know this is a malfunction of the motor or problem caused by power supply adaptation?
When we will watch a new video from you?
Keep the vinyl spinning
Brother!!!!.... I just launched one about 10 days ago!🙏😄👋👍👍✌😅😅😅
Thank you for coming by Buddy!!!!😄😄😄🖖🖖🖖🎶🎶🎶
The apps are quite accurate. I get the exact same reading with my strobe platter and RPM app to my iPhone. The trick is to balance the phone on the spindle, using e.g. a spindle weight like shown in the video. This way I get 100% similar readings down to 0,5%. The strobe platter gets me as close as 33,32-33,34rpm and then I fine tune to 33,33 using the app while adjusting the speed on my turntable.
It is not accurate enough laying the phone next to the spindle. Has to be centered on top. I use an iPhone SE.
Did you try putting the phone dead in the center of the platter? I believe that's what the app specifies.
So how do you fix it if it is turning too fast, like mine is at 34.18 rpm? It's a new Sony bluetooth turntable. I've reinstalled the belt twice and it's still revolving too fast. What do I do now?
Dear friend, welcome to the vinyl community! Yes, regarding your Sony new BT turntable, i apologize but i think that it does not sport any function that allows the user to alter its speed of revolution. Thank you for catching up buddy! I hope you find a good used mint SL1200Mk3/3D/5 from hifido.co.jp and get from rakuten.co.jp the Ariake UT-030 step-down transformer for your future vinyl playing days :-D
Hi! I have a stir it up of house of marley and it is accelerated. I set it up at 33 but I checked with the same app and its at 42. How do I fix it?
I watched this video even though on my turntable, (VPI Traveler), there is no way to adjust the speed if it's either too fast or too slow. Good job.
Hi Buddy, great to see you catch up🙏😄👋👋👋👋 may you enjoy your beautiful vinyl analog journey💪😍🎶🎵🎶🎶🎶
For AC motors, you can buy an external AC generator with frequency control. This will adjust the speed of the motor by changing the AC frequency. Some manufacturer may call it a speed box, or something similar.
Wondering who makes the record speed strobe disc you are using?
Dear Buddy :-D apologies as it was given to me by an audio friend :-D!....
Thank you for catching up over here my friend!
Sorry that i did not reply your message a month ago, and only until now.
Warmest Regards my friend and have a lovely vinyl music-filled weekend!!
~ ian
Hi
In order to be sure that the strobedisc is accurate, you need to get a 50 or 60Hz light. if you're using the grid as your electricity soure the frequency might wobble by ±10%. That means that a strobedisc is inaccurate also, unless you're using some kind of power source with stable 50 or 60Hz AC.
Avi
Avi Ulus Thank you my friend!!!!! Thanks for telling me this and fellow vinyl brothers!!💪😄✌ Great message indeed!!!!
Warmest Regards,
ian.
HiViNyws channel
A friend of mine also mentioned the difference between the different hardwares i. e. phones and different versions of Android.
my conclusion : everyone should calibrate his own phone with a strobedisc from time to time as you did.
btw thanks for the time and hard work that you spend on your videos.
" the frequency might wobble by ±10%"?
Oh, no, this is completely off base, for several reasons. First, I have certain knowledge of the fact that the power companies know that many people, devices, companies, and processes depend on exacting maintenance of the nominal AC frequency, and strive very effectively to ensure that. This commitment dates from way, way back, when every home and business had electric clocks (some still do) that are powered by synchronous motors, which precisely maintain their speed as a function of the AC frequency; that's why electric clocks never needed to be reset except after losing power - and back to when power stations first became linked into a grid. Second, anyone can deduce from first principles (and, again, I have certain knowledge) that, since virtually every power station in the entire U.S. (and every other country) and much of the rest of the continent are linked by a massive power grid, it is absolutely essential for every single one to maintain the nominal frequency precisely, because disaster would ensue if different power stations started to feed the grid out of phase with each other. In fact, equipment is in place that will instantly disconnect a generator from the grid if it deviates even a tiny bit from the nominal AC frequency.
I don't know where you heard what you thought you did, but I have the suspicion that you're confusing frequency with voltage, which is a much less critical parameter and can both deviate from the nominal between different end users, and vary by as much as you say for any given user, depending on many factors. A deep sag in voltage due to air-conditioning demand during very hot weather, for example, produces "brownouts" if generating capacity is overwhelmed.
The fact is that if you have a mains-powered fluorescent or other gaseous lamp that cycles its illumination to a sufficient degree with the AC cycle that it is possible to see the strobe effect on the disc markings, that is entirely sufficient and very precise.
This is true. Mains frequency varies all of the time. The electrical companies try to maintain an average over the month. wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/misc/mains.html
www.leapsecond.com/pages/mains/
Hi Ian, just wondering how/what can we do to adjust the motor rotational speed since my Rega power is either 33 or 45rpm (ie the Stroboscope speed disc indicate straying too fast/slow) thanks!
Dear Mr Chua, :-) very good question! My Rega RP6 also runs fast!... 33.8rpm! I realised this last year soon after I've gotten it and I asked my local retailer... he said "with great apologies because the Rega RP6 platter motor speed cannot be adjusted... "
I didn't pursue the matter further... and seems like the common observation that "Rega turntables run fast." is really true :-D.
What is the model of your Rega again? :-)
+HiViNyws channel hHehe. it's also RP6. rpm app is a nice 33,3. let me try the test disc :)
+Martin Chua alright! Same RP6. Keep me updated! :-D
Best Regards,
Ian.
I'm waiting for the platter to arrive
Then I will follow this video.
Great upload 👏👏👏
Is it possible to make it rotate to the left
hello , nice channel ! one last detail , you must check the speed when playing a real record , counting the needle drag . try a small stroob disc on top of a lp .
Very good, revealing demonstration! These phone apps cannot do everything. I believe that we should have specialized tools, and exact methods to test, and adjust things that are hi fi audio. In this case the turntable's exact speed of rotation; 33 1/3, or 45 rpm.
just got an app from apple store with reads the stroboscope for you. you turn this app on and the camera does the work. this type of app is better than the human eye. - new tool to be used w/ the gold standard
Interesting but, once the pickup arm is lowered onto the record causing drag your measurement will be wrong.
Better to obtain a smaller strobe disk so you can put it on top of the record, then do your adjustment when the
Pickup is lowered and music is playing.
Thank you for your kind time and inputs Gary👋😊👍🎶🎵🎶🎶... very glad for your time which help others here too! Warmest Regards Buddy.
HiViNyws channel Thank you. Keep up the excellent work, I love watching your programmes 👍
@@geez-hd6dn thank you my friend🤗!!! Best Regards for you and your family on your weekend!
Thank you for everything you do!
Thank you my friend :-D
May you be well and happy too!
The Phone needs to be in the center. Just put in on the weight and test again. Itll produce a higher speed reading.
Thank you my friend :-D!!!
I use a crystal generated pulse circuit to emulate 50Hz to light up a high brightness LED as strobe. The grid is good source of 50Hz and there are no difference. I developed circuits to generate 50Hz 110v ac sine wave to power my Linn or Dual turntables. Some times, you need to check the speed when the record is playing. These are simple circuits, but manufacturers sell at ridiculous prices on the strobe or sine wave power.
Bravo Brother Jonathan :-D!!! Thank you for your input for all of us!!!
Have fun and may you have a lovely vinyl'ing 2020 :-D !!!
~ ian.
Very cool rpm check system :-)
So interesting! I always wondered if the apps were accurate enough.
No worries Brother!... i have always been using the phone apps ever since I started vinyl playback...and have only been introduced to the use of the stroboscope speed test disc only recently and found it important, meaningful and interesting :-D to share with all of you....
Just my humble efforts.
Best Regards my friend!!!
Hope to see more of your ranch again!
Ian.
Hi Ian. I wonder if you agree with the Rega founder...he said a slightly faster speed is desired. In fact ALL Rega turntables run at 33.4.
He got to this conclusion after decades of experience and manufacturing of turntables.
I think he's right...on piano pieces playing on inexpensive turntables (say an RP1 or Project Debut) at a precise 33.3 you might hear the notes slippin' away slightly because the speed is not very stable (low mass platter and cheap components such as the belt and beltdrive)
With a slightly higher speed these small speed irregularities become harder to hear..rather you just "feel" a certain drive to the music.
SpaghettiKillah Brother with cm5s2/superbAria!!!!!!! 😄🖑hello!!!! sorry brother... having a walk now with my dearest wife and doggie... I AM pondering about your question!!! Thank you for speaking it out loud!!😄🖑
I catch up with you again asap!...
Rega always runs fast, it's suppose to be part of their dynamic drive, I had a P3-24, good video Ian.
Hi Mr McNulty :-D, I'm. very happy to hear from you again!!!... how have you been doing lately?! Kit & vinyl wise?
I'm doing very well and for vinyl, I just traded in my Musical Surrounding Phonomenia battery operated phono stage for a Audio Research PH8, I also listened to the PH6, but ultimately decided on the PH8 and wow, it's a detail freak, I also listened to the SimAudio Moon 310LP, which is very, very good with balanced outs.
+szidon mcnulty Wow wow wow!!! What have you got here?!!!!! A NEW Audio Research PH8!!!!!! My goodness what a modern classic! You must be relishing the extreme musical performance from such a high end phonostage, revealing juicy and delicious nuances and musicality for you and your family. I said family because upgraded my vinyl based setup has always yielded smiles on my family members faces as they CAN hear and they WILL appreciate the differences in sound quality and musicality.
I am very very happy for you Mr McNulty :-D! Congratulations to your purchase. Not cheap but I'm sure you're comfortable with it!!! Just to let all our friends here know: we are all still able to appreciate great vinyl music played back through a simple Rega RP1 or ProJect Debut or Technics through a Shure 97 or AT95E or Ortofon 2M Red... MM based.... affordable and superb musicality!!! :-) I hate snobs. Some of them even told me that the vinyl magic can only be enjoyed when one spends $20k and upwards on a turntable tonearm & cartridge. Disappointing words from snobs.
I regularly play my Rega MM based system through a simple affordable active speaker system (Aktimates) in my room everyday. Enjoy it everyday.
Audio Research enjoys a cult loyal following in Singapore as well for many years and this must be because they've been doing it right year after year. Hahaha. .. my local sole distributor for Audio Research is called High End Research!!! Google map it and you'd see its location in downtown Singapore. A very popular hang out for audiophiles in Singapore...as they also retail Wilson speakers, SME kit.
Thank you Mr McNulty.
Let's keep the passion for the vinyl analogue sound alive.
Science over hype every time. Thanks for the info!
Hi Buddy :-D thank you so much for your time catching up!!!! Hope you continue to enjoy your beautiful vinyl analogue music journey!
We win.
Great video - many thanks! I wonder if the Smartphone problem is not due to the app but the gyroscope hardware? I used a strobe test disc to set up my turntables (Dual CS 505-3 and Technics SL1210) to run at exactly 33.3333 and 45... but RPM Calculator running on my old Samsung Galaxy S2 reports 32.6 and 44.4RPM, so even less accurate than the readings that you got!!
Yes... probably so Dave!!! You ARE right!!! :-D Paul from "barakapdub" TH-cam channel also did a video on phone apps' ability to measure turntable speeds! :-D Do pop by there and say hi to him too!!!
I find it interesting to hear from you and your RPM calculator getting speeds of 32.6 (instead of 33.3) and 44.4 (instead of 45), when the Gold Standard strobe disc measures Perfectly Sweetly for your Dual CS 505-3 and Technics SL1210 at 33.3RPM!!!! :-D
THANK YOU FOR SHARING WITH ALL OF US HERE.
IT IS INVALUABLE!!! THANK YOU BROTHER DAVE! :-D
Best Regards,
ian.
I got a pro-ject debut carbon dc and the rpm caltulator shows 33.6 and 44.5. Is it possibled that the app or the phones gyro (LG G3) are off by half a RPM?
Necroguttural Yes my friend :-) it could be that the phone app is off. Mine is as off as well. Mine is a Samsung Galaxy S6. Phone apps are never as accurate as the strobedisc.😄😄😄
May you enjoy your ProJect and years of vinyl record listening!!!
- ian
I did the test several times, and with the phone placed on the weight in the middle I got a near correct result ; 33.33 rpm (min 33.30 / max 33.36 ) Wow 2sigma ± 0.07% - test on a Mofi Studiodeck with MoFi Super HeavyWeight. But as said the results are always slightly different when done again.
Yep, my experience as well. Using both strobe and phone app I get exactly same result. Use app to fine tune to exact 33.33 rpm from eg 33.32 using only strobe.
Thank you dear friends Mr Willems and Mr Gabriel :-D for catching up and very kindly, taking time to write and share your experience with all other fellow buddies and friends!!!
Warmest Regards to you both, and may you all have a lovely vinyl analogue journey of blissful listening and engagement!
~ ian.
I just used a digital copy of a song (DDD - digital master, digital mixing, digital transfer) I have on vinyl and listened to both songs at the same time, syncing them up. If my record starts to lag behind the digital version than the record rotation is too slow, if it's start to get ahead of the digital version than the record is playing too fast. As soon as it doesn't go out of sync anymore the record player is set at the correct speed. Cause remember... the speed of the platter doesn't matter but the speed of the playback itself (the music). :)
Thank you my friend!!! :-D
That sure helps!!!! Succinct and sweet!
Thank you!!!!
Sincerely,
ian.
No problem. Since I didn't have a strobe I was thinking and it reminded me of adjusting the pendulum of a grandfather clock. It doesn't matter how fast the pendulum swings, as long as it stays on time. For which you'd use an accurate source to measure against.
So I simply applied the same principle, although it came from a rather odd source yet identical source in terms of that they need an accurate tempo... analog clocks with pendulum. Plus best of all... anyone can do it without any need for special purchases and just a bit of spare time. :)
.... :-D Brilliant brother!!!!!
YES!@!!!!!
Great video, thanks.
Hi,
What's the applicaition name?
Dear Friend :-D,
On my android phone, this app is called "RPM Calculator".
Warmest Regards,
~ ian.
have you any idea of how much pressure you are putting onto the plate? the cell phone is much heavier than a disc + you are putting an irregular pressure stressing the mechanism. Not advisable at all. I'm sure the gyros work perfectly, but using the cell phone like that is no the way to go, maybe with a really high torque machine you could depreciate the mass of cell phone, but i dont think so...
Was is it for 45?
Dear Darren, the stroboscope disc has 3 rings for checking 33.3, 45 and 78rpm at 50Hz of lighting conditions, and 33.3, 45 and 78rpm at 60Hz of lighting conditions.
Have fun and keep our vinyl dream alive!
Best Regards,
Ian.
Like mentioned before, the 50hz is not accurate and can also differ up to 1%, same as the app differs. So your comparison is not really correct.
For more info, look at: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/57878/how-precise-is-the-frequency-of-the-ac-electricity-network
Thank you Buddy for telling all of us about it!!! Great link my friend!!! Thank you for your help :-Dand warmest regards!
See you soon, anytime!
~ ian.
Thanks! This was helpful.
Lynn Kaighin-Shields Thank you my friend and have fun along the way!!😄🖑
Excelente.
Thank you my friend :-)
great thanks it was of help !
Thank you too Buddy for coming by to catch up with me👋😄...may you have a lovely vinyl'ing journey ahead💪🤗🎶🎵🎶🎶🎶🎶
I avoid turntables that do not have a variable pitch control. It's worth noting that some records are not always properly mastered at 33-1/3 itself and can sound slightly "off" even if the turntable is properly regulated for speed. And sometimes the speed of the original recording itself was not properly regulated when the recording was made. So the proper turntable speed to play each individual record can slightly vary for a number of reasons, including the improperly manufacturing of the record or a slightly off tape speed when it was recorded. But with a variable pitch control, one can adjust the speed according to its PITCH by comparing it to the pitch of an accurate tuner, such as for a guitar or tuning a piano. Those who have perfect pitch can find listening to vinyl at a different pitch than what it was recorded at to be unpleasant, though for the average listener they most likely will be unable to tell if the record is being played at the proper speed. A variable pitch control is also important for those musicians who want to play along with certain records for practice, and the sound of the record must exactly match the pitch of the instrument the person is playing, especially if its the piano. These comments are from a musician's standpoint. But in general, if your platter is spinning as close as possible to an accurate speed of 33-1/3, most of your records will be close to playing at the right pitch. For me, the impact of the music is greater when it's being played at exactly the right pitch, and I've noticed this over many years, and the strobe wheel is the way to go.
Brother :-D thank you for speaking so well and sharing with all of us your wisdom and experience!!! Love them!!!!! THUMBS UP AND MAY THE FORCE be with you! Thank you!!
Hello. Love your channel. The accuracy of the strobe disk depends on the accuracy of the line frequency you're getting where you live. I don't think that frequency is as accurate as you think. Additionally, you're positioning the phone on the side rather than on top of the turntable, this might be an issue. Finally, the clocks on most consumer electronics will be so good that I do not think this is an issue with your phone.
Consider this for example: leapsecond.com/pages/mains/
Thanks for this.
+Richard Riley Thank you Brother RIchard :-D
keep the vinyl spinning!!!
Oh yes!! We love vinyl music :-D~
The problem is due to the inaccuracy of the Samsung Phone. Repeat the test with an iPhone!
Popfilter
Matt Deezly 😄hi there 🖑
cheers cheers!!!
haha :P no hate, dont worry !~
***** Hahaha...it is alright brother! 😄🖑
people rely too much on smart phones...
Hi friend!! Happy listening!!! :-D