Daniel, I just wanted to say thank you so very much for your time, efforts and hard work at doing what you are doing here, I know it's appreciated by many! I've been doing live sound professionally for 40+years now and have worked with many very big names and have seen many changes throughout the years. I have to say I really like your style; you have a way of teaching and keeping it interesting and so very informative that even a dinosaur like myself can learn and finally make sense of all this new fancy technology. Please keep up the great work! I wish you the best of luck at everything you do. If you didn't want to do sound anymore, you can certainly be an awesome teacher! I hope you have a very prosperous 2024! Thanks again!
Omg how did I not know about this! I've been using REW for years to tune studios and concert venues and it's a pain in the ass, though it gets the job done. This looks way smoother and more straightforward. Thank you 🙏
i've been running sound for ~1 year and man i wish i had found your channel sooner. i have learned so so much from these videos and my mixes are becoming significantly better every time i apply something you've taught me. thanks so much man, i hope you understand how many people you're helping with all of this info. now i just need to get a reference mic and tune my dang speakers lol
Been doing sound for 40+ years, but never really got into the overall tuning--somebody else always did that for me. Your video is amazing, and helped me understand the process end-to-end. Now to wait for the ECM8000 to arrive!
I really like both your Channels! With Drew Brasher you three made my career kick start! Drew with the overall Tutorials on my Mixer, Daniel with Sound Concepts, and tips, tricks and tweaks & Michael with his charming character & knowledge which he provides. Thanks a lot guys! I really need to say thank you!
this is a terrific video. i had no idea this software existed. i didn't need smaart bad enough to pay for it, and room eq wizard was pretty janky-feeling. thank you!
It's not that common, that I leave a comment. I really wanted to get startet with system Tuning & Live Sound. Watched so may Tutorials but this one helped me a lot! I understood the most things & this really helped me, to get to know the Software and get started! THANKS A LOT MAN!
this video is like a gift to me i tried to get the perfect tutorial of Open Sound Meter or how system tuning works close to a year by now awesome @danielkharat thank you so much for all of this
Daniel, you are an amazing teacher. I just watched almost all your videos. How do I use an mp3 file as reference material instead of the generator? Thank you in advance.
@ thank you for the prompt response. I binged on your videos man, I love them. I think I got it. Basically, play the mp3 file out to the “Card 1 & 2” of X32. Thank you
Hey loving your videos man. Firstly, when using a mic like the sound ID mic with a calibration file how do you import the file correctly and are there any extra calibration processes or even hardware you’d recommend. My frustration is that using different mics on or off axis and not flipping polarity for the mic if supposed to could affect the entire measurement process. My goal is to have all of my OSM settings correct, mic setup correctly including polarity and setup on/off axis correctly. There are so many variables and I want to be able to be confident with basic measurements such as time aligning mains with subs and all of my in fill speakers and then achieve a smooth eq, work to a consistent target curve and monitor levels correctly. I feel like this video covers 80 percent of what I need to understand but would be great to understand these additional points.!?
Hi Daniel I'm one of your fans of audio lessons you explained carefully and basically. Thank you for making videos and hoping for more videos about mixing live performances... By the way, can I ask what is the brand and model you are using of audio interface and mic measurement?
I dont think im understanding how the EQ changes you're doing towards the end get sent to the console, Does that mean the signal flow now is audio into OpenSoundMeter, processed in sound meter then back into console?
No the filters i apply in open sound meter are a prediction of what will happen if i do the same moves on the console After i know that this filter at this frequency with this much gain and cue will do this to my sound I go and do the same eq move on the console
Hello Daniel, I have a problem: I did the setup as you indicated for the external soundcard option but I'm getting my measurement mic back into the PA and it creates horrible feedback, I have a 2-channel interface so I'm sending pink noise on both outputs: output 2 goes straight back to the interface with the cable loop for reference and output 1 goes to a console channel to output pink noise into the mixer and PA, BUT, since I have my measurement mic connected to input 1 it's also sending that mic on output 1, How do I stop that?, I have a Behringer UMC202HD
@askkwok5411 you have to do these eq moves on the console. the software just gives you a preview of how the eq moves will affect the frequency response so you can know exactly what filters to use and try blindly on the mixer
Hi Daniel .just quick question: I have analog mixer with built in usb interface,can I use open sound meter with the built in interface in my mixer without getting external interface?
@hassannassereddine6021 it depends on the model of your mixer. Most analog mixers that have a built-in interface won't give you the ability to choose a channl input it usually sends out the main mix. In the case no you can't use it for that purpose
@ThalamusGhipopotamus to eliminate variables. You're passing both signals through the same digital to analog converters with the same electronics, same preamps, same latency... Both signals are getting "affected" in the same manner so the difference between them is what's happening with the speakers in the room nothing else
thanks for the video its really helpfull... anw have you ever experience where the right speaker and left speaker its have difference sound profile? althought its have the same model speaker and theres no tone knob on the speaker and im not doing any processing on the speaker yet the sound profile its different... is it factory defect? or something happen make it like that? thankss
Watch out for reflections. If there's a hard surface next to one speaker and it's causing delayed reflections it might make the speaker sound too boomy or to bright...if you can put the speakers side by side away from any walls or har surfaces, and listen to one of them then listen to the other one If they sound the same, your problem is a reflection If the still sound different, the problem is in the speaker itself
I think it is worth noting that speakers DO WEAR OUT... !!! All speakers are linear motors, and all motors wear out and break down eventually (to use an automotive comparison). The earliest wear points for a LF driver are the surround, the spider and the tinsel leads from the voice coil to the connector tabs or posts. In a HF compression driver, it depends a lot on the material the diaphragm is made of, but aluminum and titanium can develop cracks along the "surround" area (it's not really a surround, but it is a thin area with the greatest stress & movement). This is super simplified, and assumes NO ABUSE of the speaker, accidental or otherwise. If the speaker has been abused, you can easily have damaged, but not completely burnt out drivers that give anywhere from a somewhat to vastly different sound to a new, perfectly functioning driver. You didn't mention HOW the speaker sounds different, but here are a few notable examples I've personally repaired whereby the speaker was still functioning to an extent, but sounded vastly different that a good one: HF titanium diaphragm shattered by excessive power - still produced some HF, but distorted & very low volume. HF titanium diaphragm cracked along the "surround" - reduced HF volume, odd distortion at some frequencies. HF Mylar diaphragm & magnetic structure contaminated with dried beverage - sounded nearly normal but with distortion at some frequencies. LF surround partially de-bonded from cone - weak floppy bass with notable distortion at some frequencies. LF spider de-bonded from frame - lots of distortion & clacking noise from voice coil rubbing / hitting magnet. Might be worth running some measurement tests on the speakers to ensure you don't have a driver fault.
the speaker was hanging on the ceiling with no walls the problem its on the speaker itself.... can we just tune each speaker to match each other?? I know its a lot of work ... thanks anw@@danielkharrat
@handihasan8823 you can do that if the difference is not huge. If there's 5 db or more difference in certain ranges you can eq it theoretically but it won't sound good
Hey, I need your help. I want to have a default scene saved on all our M32. No matter what I try it won't work. On one of them I somehow managed to save a preset which loads every time I switch it on. Unfortunately it's not my default scene. It's always saying that the loaded scene is the last one I saved, but it isn't. It's a competely different one and I can't figure out why and I did a lot of research on that with no results. Thx
@@curly_ thx, I finally managed to get what I wanted. Unfortunately it is only possible by using a USB drive an saving a scene to it which must be (re)named "CustomBootState.scn". Everytime you switch on it will ask you if you want to load that scene. So I took it even further and named it "CustomBootState_NoPopUp.scn". Since all our M32 consoles are equipped with a dedecated USB drive anyway, it now works perfctly. Everytime I switch on, my default scene is immediatly loaded. Saves tons of time. No more routing or programming required in 99% of my setups. Using cutom channel presets, it takes little to no time to get ready.
Any idea why my DN 32 is showing up as a microphone in the audio input device list? And as speakers in the audio output device list? I’m using the same set up M32c and DN16 stage box.
Hi! Great video! Will useit now for our church new install of Behringer Wing. Where do I get a hold of Lawrence target trace and how do I import it in to Open Sound meter?
I think that tools like Smaart, OSM and REW are mainly developped for audiofiles that want to tune their listening room. Live sound engineers may benifit from the tools to pinpoint issues and correct the room and speaker situation, but not to the same extend. A live sound engineer should learn to hear problematic frequencies, and recognize phase or polarity issues by ear.
I hope you are referring to setting up a couple speakers on sticks & a couple subs at a local bar.... I roll out to a local artisanal brew pub to do sound for some hacks every couple Saturdays, basically in open air with a permanent awning, and I just throw down some K12.2's & a couple 15" subs & done. But I'd never dream of setting up the array system at a festival, or doing the installed sound for a rock & metal bar or dance club (or an ancient stone church) without proper measurement tools. Sure, you still need listening skills, but human ears are so easily fooled, more so when the eyes are not blind folded. Sorry, no offense intended, but if you are referring to all venues, all circumstances, this is a really terrible take on giving the audience the best results.
@radioflyer2030 , I think I understand what they meant as "be able to identify issues by ear" is more about the differences of why something isn't right, and what is. Measurements for accuracy in correctional delay timing is really, really important. I dont think the comment was just disregarding it altogether. Without tools, you can get close - but it's really a science of physics... ya know?
I don't agree, A lot of great, professional sound engineers have had their ears so battered during their career that any visual aid is a welcomed gift.
A live sound MIXING engineer should use his ears, but not a system tech... I mean can you hear phase or can you average with your ears.... come on man... Audiofiles scared of measureing their eqvipment😂
@@laszloturi9633 Lolz... you must be a first worlder... in my country, you are always BOTH (mix eng & system tech). I'm frequently amused that our 3rd world restaurants & department stores have 2 to 4 times more employees that their first world counterparts (and still often have sub par service), meanwhile they will send you to do sound at a festival with a guy (or maybe two) who's only skill is lifting things, and think that is plenty good enough to get the job done. 🤣😂🤣 (BTW, I say all this in a lighthearted way, just highlighting the differences between first world ways and 3rd world ways - no offense intended to anyone from any part of the world).
Anyone have issues running OSM with Mac os ventura 13.4? It keeps crashing my 2019 15"MBPro even after deleting and re-instal. It was working fine a few weeks ago before i upgraded to ventura. Running the latest version of OSM thanks
You shall improve your knowledge what the window function is, as seems your knowledge is lacking there a lot. And the rectangular windows is exactly a "no window". Staying with the Hann window function is the safest bet to begin with.
Sir How to Manage 2 Type Sub. I mean 2 /3 types bass reflex sub , example - 1) Front Loaded 2) Hornload 2) Revers speaker sub In one venue. How to manage it
Download my church measurement OSM File: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FiYv6mftySdWk67oc6dvGrew46rThinn?usp=sharing
Daniel, I just wanted to say thank you so very much for your time, efforts and hard work at doing what you are doing here, I know it's appreciated by many! I've been doing live sound professionally for 40+years now and have worked with many very big names and have seen many changes throughout the years. I have to say I really like your style; you have a way of teaching and keeping it interesting and so very informative that even a dinosaur like myself can learn and finally make sense of all this new fancy technology. Please keep up the great work! I wish you the best of luck at everything you do. If you didn't want to do sound anymore, you can certainly be an awesome teacher! I hope you have a very prosperous 2024! Thanks again!
Omg how did I not know about this! I've been using REW for years to tune studios and concert venues and it's a pain in the ass, though it gets the job done. This looks way smoother and more straightforward. Thank you 🙏
i've been running sound for ~1 year and man i wish i had found your channel sooner. i have learned so so much from these videos and my mixes are becoming significantly better every time i apply something you've taught me. thanks so much man, i hope you understand how many people you're helping with all of this info.
now i just need to get a reference mic and tune my dang speakers lol
Been doing sound for 40+ years, but never really got into the overall tuning--somebody else always did that for me. Your video is amazing, and helped me understand the process end-to-end. Now to wait for the ECM8000 to arrive!
Tried this yesterday with some headphones and a regular mic. Made a huge difference.
Nice job here, Daniel!
Thanks Michael 🙌🏻 i appreciate it coming from you
@@danielkharrat You got it! Keep up the good work.
I really like both your Channels! With Drew Brasher you three made my career kick start! Drew with the overall Tutorials on my Mixer, Daniel with Sound Concepts, and tips, tricks and tweaks & Michael with his charming character & knowledge which he provides. Thanks a lot guys! I really need to say thank you!
Looks like you have been watching Michael Curtis videos. I follow him too. Good video. Keep up the good work.
Absolutely brilliant content! Thank you for being comprehensive! I always need something to convey to new audio techs, and this is really solid!
God knows how this thing intimidates me. Thanks to your video now it makes sense and about to try this.
this video really helped me wrap my head around all of this
Hi Daniel, you great hope you feeling better
this is a terrific video. i had no idea this software existed. i didn't need smaart bad enough to pay for it, and room eq wizard was pretty janky-feeling. thank you!
It's not that common, that I leave a comment. I really wanted to get startet with system Tuning & Live Sound. Watched so may Tutorials but this one helped me a lot! I understood the most things & this really helped me, to get to know the Software and get started! THANKS A LOT MAN!
Great video for beginner! When i did begin with this topic there were any good videos like this
Thank you. It was very helpfull.
Informative video. Helped me a lot to understand the measure display in smaart. Thank you 🙏
Great video! An open sound meter tutorial on sub and main time alignment would be awesome too.
Great video. Could you do one that aligns the sub and front fills?
this video is like a gift to me i tried to get the perfect tutorial of Open Sound Meter or how system tuning works close to a year by now awesome @danielkharat thank you so much for all of this
awesome video - thank you very much!
thank you, ive learn a lot from you!
Daniel, you are an amazing teacher. I just watched almost all your videos. How do I use an mp3 file as reference material instead of the generator? Thank you in advance.
you can just play the file on your computer normally and everything else stays the same
@ thank you for the prompt response. I binged on your videos man, I love them. I think I got it. Basically, play the mp3 file out to the “Card 1 & 2” of X32. Thank you
Thank you so much
Great video! Tell me how to measure delay in a mixer aND AMPs?Thank you
Hey loving your videos man. Firstly, when using a mic like the sound ID mic with a calibration file how do you import the file correctly and are there any extra calibration processes or even hardware you’d recommend. My frustration is that using different mics on or off axis and not flipping polarity for the mic if supposed to could affect the entire measurement process. My goal is to have all of my OSM settings correct, mic setup correctly including polarity and setup on/off axis correctly. There are so many variables and I want to be able to be confident with basic measurements such as time aligning mains with subs and all of my in fill speakers and then achieve a smooth eq, work to a consistent target curve and monitor levels correctly. I feel like this video covers 80 percent of what I need to understand but would be great to understand these additional points.!?
Dude, you are awsome!!
Hey thanks for the video. Can you explain how to route m32/x32 without the aes50A?
Great tutorial!
But why power math average, not a polar?
Hi Daniel I'm one of your fans of audio lessons you explained carefully and basically. Thank you for making videos and hoping for more videos about mixing live performances... By the way, can I ask what is the brand and model you are using of audio interface and mic measurement?
Audient evo 4 and behringer ECM 8000
@@danielkharrat many thanks daniel...
Bro you can explain smart v8 graphics
@@artistboys538 I don't have a smaart license, but it is very similar to this
I dont think im understanding how the EQ changes you're doing towards the end get sent to the console, Does that mean the signal flow now is audio into OpenSoundMeter, processed in sound meter then back into console?
No the filters i apply in open sound meter are a prediction of what will happen if i do the same moves on the console
After i know that this filter at this frequency with this much gain and cue will do this to my sound
I go and do the same eq move on the console
Hello Daniel, I have a problem: I did the setup as you indicated for the external soundcard option but I'm getting my measurement mic back into the PA and it creates horrible feedback, I have a 2-channel interface so I'm sending pink noise on both outputs: output 2 goes straight back to the interface with the cable loop for reference and output 1 goes to a console channel to output pink noise into the mixer and PA, BUT, since I have my measurement mic connected to input 1 it's also sending that mic on output 1, How do I stop that?, I have a Behringer UMC202HD
@@h.o.2078 your first input is probably going out of the outputs. Open the control panel of your interface on your computer and turn down input 1
@@danielkharrat Ok, I'll try that thanks
Thank you Daniel~Just wanna know about the eq adjustment，do I have to adjust on my console or just in the software？
@askkwok5411 you have to do these eq moves on the console. the software just gives you a preview of how the eq moves will affect the frequency response so you can know exactly what filters to use and try blindly on the mixer
@@danielkharrat got it！thanks so much！
hello,nice doing daniel what course did you take to learn all this info?
@elieee88 rational acoustics have a playlist on TH-cam for smaart v8 th-cam.com/play/PLbQ6rmufsxd7gk8N25gtjfPS_E2494Vwm.html&si=yS7n9hYRXi_z3q07
Hi Daniel .just quick question: I have analog mixer with built in usb interface,can I use open sound meter with the built in interface in my mixer without getting external interface?
@hassannassereddine6021 it depends on the model of your mixer. Most analog mixers that have a built-in interface won't give you the ability to choose a channl input it usually sends out the main mix. In the case no you can't use it for that purpose
@@danielkharrat thank you
Why use a physical wire for the reference signal if the operating system has a virtual send to the channels from the master?
@ThalamusGhipopotamus to eliminate variables. You're passing both signals through the same digital to analog converters with the same electronics, same preamps, same latency...
Both signals are getting "affected" in the same manner so the difference between them is what's happening with the speakers in the room nothing else
@@danielkharrat But the program itself calculates the delay and sets it to the measured signal for coherence
thanks for the video its really helpfull...
anw have you ever experience where the right speaker and left speaker its have difference sound profile? althought its have the same model speaker and theres no tone knob on the speaker and im not doing any processing on the speaker yet the sound profile its different... is it factory defect? or something happen make it like that?
thankss
Watch out for reflections. If there's a hard surface next to one speaker and it's causing delayed reflections it might make the speaker sound too boomy or to bright...if you can put the speakers side by side away from any walls or har surfaces, and listen to one of them then listen to the other one
If they sound the same, your problem is a reflection
If the still sound different, the problem is in the speaker itself
I think it is worth noting that speakers DO WEAR OUT... !!! All speakers are linear motors, and all motors wear out and break down eventually (to use an automotive comparison). The earliest wear points for a LF driver are the surround, the spider and the tinsel leads from the voice coil to the connector tabs or posts. In a HF compression driver, it depends a lot on the material the diaphragm is made of, but aluminum and titanium can develop cracks along the "surround" area (it's not really a surround, but it is a thin area with the greatest stress & movement). This is super simplified, and assumes NO ABUSE of the speaker, accidental or otherwise. If the speaker has been abused, you can easily have damaged, but not completely burnt out drivers that give anywhere from a somewhat to vastly different sound to a new, perfectly functioning driver.
You didn't mention HOW the speaker sounds different, but here are a few notable examples I've personally repaired whereby the speaker was still functioning to an extent, but sounded vastly different that a good one: HF titanium diaphragm shattered by excessive power - still produced some HF, but distorted & very low volume. HF titanium diaphragm cracked along the "surround" - reduced HF volume, odd distortion at some frequencies. HF Mylar diaphragm & magnetic structure contaminated with dried beverage - sounded nearly normal but with distortion at some frequencies. LF surround partially de-bonded from cone - weak floppy bass with notable distortion at some frequencies. LF spider de-bonded from frame - lots of distortion & clacking noise from voice coil rubbing / hitting magnet.
Might be worth running some measurement tests on the speakers to ensure you don't have a driver fault.
the speaker was hanging on the ceiling with no walls the problem its on the speaker itself.... can we just tune each speaker to match each other?? I know its a lot of work ... thanks anw@@danielkharrat
well the speaker its relatively new.. I thought wearing its not the problem thanks anw@@radioflyer2030
@handihasan8823 you can do that if the difference is not huge. If there's 5 db or more difference in certain ranges you can eq it theoretically but it won't sound good
Hey, I need your help. I want to have a default scene saved on all our M32. No matter what I try it won't work. On one of them I somehow managed to save a preset which loads every time I switch it on. Unfortunately it's not my default scene. It's always saying that the loaded scene is the last one I saved, but it isn't. It's a competely different one and I can't figure out why and I did a lot of research on that with no results. Thx
Get a usbstick
@@curly_ thx, I finally managed to get what I wanted. Unfortunately it is only possible by using a USB drive an saving a scene to it which must be (re)named "CustomBootState.scn". Everytime you switch on it will ask you if you want to load that scene. So I took it even further and named it "CustomBootState_NoPopUp.scn". Since all our M32 consoles are equipped with a dedecated USB drive anyway, it now works perfctly. Everytime I switch on, my default scene is immediatly loaded. Saves tons of time. No more routing or programming required in 99% of my setups. Using cutom channel presets, it takes little to no time to get ready.
Any idea why my DN 32 is showing up as a microphone in the audio input device list? And as speakers in the audio output device list? I’m using the same set up M32c and DN16 stage box.
Disregard it was a driver issue 😑
Does this software works on windows only?
No it works on macos and Linux also
@@danielkharrat what about ipadOS and Android?
@Elior1030 iPad os yes but it's not free
Android no
@danielkharrat ok, thank you sir.
Hi! Great video! Will useit now for our church new install of Behringer Wing. Where do I get a hold of Lawrence target trace and how do I import it in to Open Sound meter?
Would you recommend using the autoEQ in mixing station?
No
I think that tools like Smaart, OSM and REW are mainly developped for audiofiles that want to tune their listening room.
Live sound engineers may benifit from the tools to pinpoint issues and correct the room and speaker situation, but not to the same extend.
A live sound engineer should learn to hear problematic frequencies, and recognize phase or polarity issues by ear.
I hope you are referring to setting up a couple speakers on sticks & a couple subs at a local bar.... I roll out to a local artisanal brew pub to do sound for some hacks every couple Saturdays, basically in open air with a permanent awning, and I just throw down some K12.2's & a couple 15" subs & done. But I'd never dream of setting up the array system at a festival, or doing the installed sound for a rock & metal bar or dance club (or an ancient stone church) without proper measurement tools. Sure, you still need listening skills, but human ears are so easily fooled, more so when the eyes are not blind folded. Sorry, no offense intended, but if you are referring to all venues, all circumstances, this is a really terrible take on giving the audience the best results.
@radioflyer2030 , I think I understand what they meant as "be able to identify issues by ear" is more about the differences of why something isn't right, and what is.
Measurements for accuracy in correctional delay timing is really, really important. I dont think the comment was just disregarding it altogether.
Without tools, you can get close - but it's really a science of physics... ya know?
I don't agree, A lot of great, professional sound engineers have had their ears so battered during their career that any visual aid is a welcomed gift.
A live sound MIXING engineer should use his ears, but not a system tech... I mean can you hear phase or can you average with your ears.... come on man... Audiofiles scared of measureing their eqvipment😂
@@laszloturi9633 Lolz... you must be a first worlder... in my country, you are always BOTH (mix eng & system tech). I'm frequently amused that our 3rd world restaurants & department stores have 2 to 4 times more employees that their first world counterparts (and still often have sub par service), meanwhile they will send you to do sound at a festival with a guy (or maybe two) who's only skill is lifting things, and think that is plenty good enough to get the job done. 🤣😂🤣 (BTW, I say all this in a lighthearted way, just highlighting the differences between first world ways and 3rd world ways - no offense intended to anyone from any part of the world).
Anyone have issues running OSM with Mac os ventura 13.4? It keeps crashing my 2019 15"MBPro even after deleting and re-instal. It was working fine a few weeks ago before i upgraded to ventura. Running the latest version of OSM thanks
Superb Tutorial, but
the video stopped at 25.55 !
It plays normally on my side
Thank's @@danielkharrat
Nice with the mic straight into the mixer no wire..much cleaner signal haha
You shall improve your knowledge what the window function is, as seems your knowledge is lacking there a lot. And the rectangular windows is exactly a "no window". Staying with the Hann window function is the safest bet to begin with.
Sir How to Manage 2 Type Sub. I mean 2 /3 types bass reflex sub , example - 1) Front Loaded
2) Hornload
2) Revers speaker sub
In one venue. How to manage it
jesus there is no easy way xd
Changing your voice to different voice is very distracting and creates confusion
No it doesn't