Drop invis base kit so they gotta bring invis pot with appropriate stats (wouldn’t be against raising that stat requirement as well) or just completely drop that one stealth mechanic.
@@PopularParts yes I mean with gear with health affix. Even then the health boost to the class will still carry a brokie running whites and greens in a fight.
@gambitenjoyer_ Not every match but since you called it bis means they should be. I watched 3 hours of my mans getting obliterated by rogues with max health being 140-150.
@@PopularParts for solos, creep is probably the best perk in the game. no footstep sounds is insane. I go dagger mastery, ambush, 10 step invis perk, creep w/ weakpoint and hide
rogue is basically face checking people by just running into them and holding M1, its not good game design. ive said this since PT5, rogue needs a whole rework because in their current state the class is either OP or useless or just spams hand crossy
Its a give and take in my opinion, hard to balance a hard versatile/solo yolo class as rogue, I'd say nerf the damage slightly movement slightly, and I wouldn't even touch the skills that would slight overkill
I think the game will benefit from removing true invis altogether, including invis pots. and nerfing creep to make it so that you’ll hear the rogue only when they are already very close to you.
I have to agree with rogue needing a complete rework at this point. I've been playing since release and the problem with the class is that the class itself is MISERABLE to balance. He is either absolutely weak and nearly unplayable or he is oppressively strong and nobody and i mean nobody likes land mine metas. And from the rogue pov it feels horrible to play that class cause when you play hit and run style making use of its movement speed it ends up turning into a make 1 mistake and getting instantly one tapped by a barb, cleric, fighter or any relevant melee (funny spear users) class.
The main problem is not that rogue is op, which it is. The main issue is there IS NO MELEE COMBAT you just smash left click 0 brain combat now imagine rogue with combat like in mordhau. that is a different story. The fact that you can t time parry in a melee game, takes away from the ability to balance or counter such landmine rogues.
Just get rid of ambush and make creep either be extremely quite or slower so you can’t really chase people well. Land mine would be truly the name of the game being such a small radius they can get you
Just a timmy opinion, think it depends on gear bracket outside of HR. Solos, there is an infestation of rogues. So a rework may be needed. Remove creep for sure, or change it to be something else. Otherwise i say buff the other classes to be viable in solos. Low bracket gear i wanna say rogue is trash but once you get a little bit of True phys and health. Ggs. I only have 200hrs in so im still not versed in match ups, but regardless we need to say some things are just a bad match up. Like zangief vs guile in street fighter. Its an uphill battle for Gief
Could also be an issue with how stilleto has no damage falloff, idk the term for it, but like how halberd gets reduced damage when hittling someone with the hilt
I just think the concept of invisibility in dark and darker is a bad idea, maybe replace hide with an ability that makes it so they emit zero noise for like 20 seconds as somebody who plays rogue a little I wouldn’t mind this
Honestly, I think you need to play rogue and see the strengths and weaknesses. Your build in general doesn’t do well against rogues, a spell keeps them from stealthing hydra helps as well. The first fight, he actually played it bad by seeing the shadow but he blocked you in a door so your attack would miss and he outgeared you. Crystal sword still isn’t that good. The second, you’re in a very dark area and warlocks are insanely loud it’s easy to sound where you will be. If I play rogue I don’t like playin with warlocks for that reason. The third, both your hits were arm hits slow it down he dodged around them , and he barely lived he built his kit bad. Noob hard pushed a warlock direct infront of you and almost died. I’m a wizard main 350 fame and casters are rough in the meta. Fighters barbs and clerics easily counter rogues. You really should play it and see the positives and negatives. Could it use some balancing? Sure but you’re slow ms in this ten steps. You could have demon formed in the last on and won everytime. Demon is still pretty troll atm
Rogues are overtuned rn. Creep should not be used with invis. Idc about pickpocket build, i cant play the game cause every corner can have landmine rogue sitting with no audio q waiting for you. On top, rogues if you dont nerf their damage, nerf their hp. 130-140 hp in good kit is a joke. 3 hits with zwei dude survives 40 hp against my agi barbarian, and it only takes him 3 super fast hits with stiletto to kill me. Finally, i agree with your point about hydra. You cant just hydra every corner all the game, it slows you down a lot. On top of that, the range hydra attacks invis rogue is very short. The dude can come close to you and because of movespeed buff he just jumps and 2 taps you. So yea, delete creep, make rogues do less damage or have less hp(and dont touch the damage). Thats what i think about all of it
i play no rat rouge and i can so without invis rouge is still very good i think invis shouldnt be a thing and creep. Maybe remove them perks and give rouge some other tuned feature
Rogue has a combination of problems, and largely suffers from perk-bloat. I personally believe, at the foundation of these problems, ambush is the issue. It is largely considered the best perk for rogue, regardless of needing Hide as a pre-requisite. Hide, creep, poison weapon, and cutthroat are all strong in their own right but in what world is a 50% physical power bonus for a single hit considered "balanced"? Most classes don't even have the ability to reach these levels of physical power bonuses, barring Bard with reinforced instruments perk for the 50% physical power bonus; which is luckily a slept on perk and is busted in the "under 125" gearscore lobbies.
I was pdr fighter with like 60% pdr with my shield out around 152 hp and i heard something in the rubble move so i was ready and i was on rapier fighter with the sword mastery so i was on 30 base dmg on my rapier and i was ready for the rogue cuz i heard something but he still came out of invis and just killed me lol...
rogue is way too strong right now, especially in solos, and the solution is not a nerf, by just tweaking the numbers you can only make landmine too weak or too strong. rogue needs to be completely reworked or removed. but ironmace is completely incapable of any creative balance changes it seems. just "lets turn 0.1 into 0.05 instead, I'm sure that will solve it"
The problem is the number of rogues using cheats to find you. Perhaps get your health low and bait them into a trap. Warlock: drop your hydra, Wizard: light spell, Fighter/Cleric: Shields, Barbarian: kill rogue, Druid: crouch jump doors, Bard/Ranger: ??? I personally think if said rogue has crossed 12 door ways making a direct path to you, their footstep audio should be increased maybe even have an on screen indicator of where they are coming from. What if they step in sh*t and leave a trail.
Im not gonna lie though rogue is a warlocks worst fear. I think I have 15-20 warlock kills vs maybe dying 2-3 times since the recent patch. I always tell them im coming for them in the lobby LOL
Personally I think rogues are too strong, but only in solo gc. I really don’t have a problem dealing with them in other queues or on other maps.
Yeah Goblin Caves high gear/HR is insane right now with rogues
I think rogue having both creep and invis is just too much if they’re gonna have 150hp. Either lose creep and/or invis or tank the base hp back down.
Drop invis base kit so they gotta bring invis pot with appropriate stats (wouldn’t be against raising that stat requirement as well) or just completely drop that one stealth mechanic.
150hp? u smokin crack? unless u mean FULLY kitted + max health
@@PopularParts yes I mean with gear with health affix. Even then the health boost to the class will still carry a brokie running whites and greens in a fight.
@@in00yasha i been goin crazy w this rogue but dk how to get more health ha what clothes do that cheap
@gambitenjoyer_ Not every match but since you called it bis means they should be. I watched 3 hours of my mans getting obliterated by rogues with max health being 140-150.
Rogue needs a whole ass rework.
Without landmine it's garbage.
With landmine it's almost cheating in solos.
what landmine do and is it perk or skill
@@PopularParts invis + ambush + creep = landmine
@@thelostspaceman1783 creep worth it tho? i feel like thrust is better 20% armor pen
@@PopularParts for solos, creep is probably the best perk in the game. no footstep sounds is insane. I go dagger mastery, ambush, 10 step invis perk, creep w/ weakpoint and hide
@@xxelhomm1327 before fighter buff str hp no hide rogue was on the come up.
rogue is basically face checking people by just running into them and holding M1, its not good game design. ive said this since PT5, rogue needs a whole rework because in their current state the class is either OP or useless or just spams hand crossy
Its a give and take in my opinion, hard to balance a hard versatile/solo yolo class as rogue, I'd say nerf the damage slightly movement slightly, and I wouldn't even touch the skills that would slight overkill
Bro that outro animation fuckin slaps
Thanks bruh 🫡
I think the game will benefit from removing true invis altogether, including invis pots. and nerfing creep to make it so that you’ll hear the rogue only when they are already very close to you.
I agree complete silence is insane.
I have to agree with rogue needing a complete rework at this point.
I've been playing since release and the problem with the class is that the class itself is MISERABLE to balance.
He is either absolutely weak and nearly unplayable or he is oppressively strong and nobody and i mean nobody likes land mine metas.
And from the rogue pov it feels horrible to play that class cause when you play hit and run style making use of its movement speed it ends up turning into a make 1 mistake and getting instantly one tapped by a barb, cleric, fighter or any relevant melee (funny spear users) class.
The main problem is not that rogue is op, which it is.
The main issue is there IS NO MELEE COMBAT
you just smash left click 0 brain combat
now imagine rogue with combat like in mordhau. that is a different story.
The fact that you can t time parry in a melee game, takes away from the ability to balance or counter such landmine rogues.
Dragging, spacing, dodging (Not including parrying and blocking). But yea its very bare bones, def need some more mechanics
For warlock i think the best think would be go demonlock BOC halberd or bardiche i think
This is what I concluded as well
Rogue = Absolutely slopped on
😂😂
Just get rid of ambush and make creep either be extremely quite or slower so you can’t really chase people well. Land mine would be truly the name of the game being such a small radius they can get you
Just a timmy opinion, think it depends on gear bracket outside of HR.
Solos, there is an infestation of rogues. So a rework may be needed. Remove creep for sure, or change it to be something else. Otherwise i say buff the other classes to be viable in solos.
Low bracket gear i wanna say rogue is trash but once you get a little bit of True phys and health. Ggs.
I only have 200hrs in so im still not versed in match ups, but regardless we need to say some things are just a bad match up. Like zangief vs guile in street fighter. Its an uphill battle for Gief
Could also be an issue with how stilleto has no damage falloff, idk the term for it, but like how halberd gets reduced damage when hittling someone with the hilt
Solid opinion.
I just think the concept of invisibility in dark and darker is a bad idea, maybe replace hide with an ability that makes it so they emit zero noise for like 20 seconds as somebody who plays rogue a little I wouldn’t mind this
Has BOC Crystal sword Demon being working for you or not ? I wanna give it a try.
It was working but I kept getting landmines by Rouge a i gotta retry and Duos and trios
🚫 Stop the discrimination against us rouge mains 🚫
😂😂
i bet rogue mains smell like cheese, but not a good cheese, that smelly cheese like cheetos type shit
This is pretty much a fact.
are u the same guy who ambush solo players whit their butt budies? lol
What are your thoughts on the latest warlock nerfs?
Torture masteries a bit cooked, but the crystal sword buff makes for some interesting new viable builds.
Awesome video
Honestly, I think you need to play rogue and see the strengths and weaknesses. Your build in general doesn’t do well against rogues, a spell keeps them from stealthing hydra helps as well. The first fight, he actually played it bad by seeing the shadow but he blocked you in a door so your attack would miss and he outgeared you. Crystal sword still isn’t that good. The second, you’re in a very dark area and warlocks are insanely loud it’s easy to sound where you will be. If I play rogue I don’t like playin with warlocks for that reason. The third, both your hits were arm hits slow it down he dodged around them , and he barely lived he built his kit bad. Noob hard pushed a warlock direct infront of you and almost died. I’m a wizard main 350 fame and casters are rough in the meta. Fighters barbs and clerics easily counter rogues. You really should play it and see the positives and negatives. Could it use some balancing? Sure but you’re slow ms in this ten steps. You could have demon formed in the last on and won everytime. Demon is still pretty troll atm
Rogues are overtuned rn. Creep should not be used with invis. Idc about pickpocket build, i cant play the game cause every corner can have landmine rogue sitting with no audio q waiting for you. On top, rogues if you dont nerf their damage, nerf their hp. 130-140 hp in good kit is a joke. 3 hits with zwei dude survives 40 hp against my agi barbarian, and it only takes him 3 super fast hits with stiletto to kill me. Finally, i agree with your point about hydra. You cant just hydra every corner all the game, it slows you down a lot. On top of that, the range hydra attacks invis rogue is very short. The dude can come close to you and because of movespeed buff he just jumps and 2 taps you. So yea, delete creep, make rogues do less damage or have less hp(and dont touch the damage). Thats what i think about all of it
Nailed it. 🫡
i play no rat rouge and i can so without invis rouge is still very good i think invis shouldnt be a thing and creep. Maybe remove them perks and give rouge some other tuned feature
W view
Rogue has a combination of problems, and largely suffers from perk-bloat. I personally believe, at the foundation of these problems, ambush is the issue. It is largely considered the best perk for rogue, regardless of needing Hide as a pre-requisite. Hide, creep, poison weapon, and cutthroat are all strong in their own right but in what world is a 50% physical power bonus for a single hit considered "balanced"? Most classes don't even have the ability to reach these levels of physical power bonuses, barring Bard with reinforced instruments perk for the 50% physical power bonus; which is luckily a slept on perk and is busted in the "under 125" gearscore lobbies.
I was pdr fighter with like 60% pdr with my shield out around 152 hp and i heard something in the rubble move so i was ready and i was on rapier fighter with the sword mastery so i was on 30 base dmg on my rapier and i was ready for the rogue cuz i heard something but he still came out of invis and just killed me lol...
Tragic bro..
rogue is way too strong right now, especially in solos, and the solution is not a nerf, by just tweaking the numbers you can only make landmine too weak or too strong. rogue needs to be completely reworked or removed. but ironmace is completely incapable of any creative balance changes it seems. just "lets turn 0.1 into 0.05 instead, I'm sure that will solve it"
I agree 1000%
I miss one shotting rogues. Now it takes 5 hits to beat them with falchion and they three tap me in the back
The HP buff was tragic
Warlock needs a nerf
brooooo I HATE rogues sooooo muuuuuch!!! lol even when I play as one I get mad at myself when I kill people so easily
Bro lmao 😂😂
You panic so much against rogues
Bruh 😂💀
The problem is the number of rogues using cheats to find you. Perhaps get your health low and bait them into a trap.
Warlock: drop your hydra, Wizard: light spell, Fighter/Cleric: Shields, Barbarian: kill rogue, Druid: crouch jump doors, Bard/Ranger: ???
I personally think if said rogue has crossed 12 door ways making a direct path to you, their footstep audio should be increased maybe even have an on screen indicator of where they are coming from. What if they step in sh*t and leave a trail.
rogue is so easy to kill.
Im not gonna lie though rogue is a warlocks worst fear. I think I have 15-20 warlock kills vs maybe dying 2-3 times since the recent patch. I always tell them im coming for them in the lobby LOL