Complicating the issue of jails in Los Angeles is the fact that a pretty significant percentage of inmates have severe mental illness. Our jail system has been referred to as the largest mental health hospital in the world but the problem is, it isn't set up to be a hospital. California shut down most of the hospitals and asylums because they became places where people were being inhumanely warehoused but instead of community based models filling the gap, prisons became the answer for now. Great video and really key to understanding the power of architecture to foster relationships.
Same thing happened here in Italy in the past decades and still we don't have enough communities which will be able to provide the necessary hospitality and treatment for such people. Making the jailed people work will both reduce the public spending for the prisons and give these people the chance to find a new "dimension" for themselves. It won't be easy with everyone, but surely better than having to deal with suicides, riots and criminals who reiterate their crimes, once they are freed
"Complicating the issue of jails in Los Angeles is the fact that a pretty significant percentage of inmates have severe mental illness. " Prisoners everywhere. We cage, we do not treat. (to the extent that we can effectively treat mental illness, which we cannot)
I recall hearing of a prison where everyone was given a cat to care for. Many of them began to grow empathy and responsibility in caring for their cats and those who abused cats were dealt with severely, by the other inmates.
Maryland Correctional Institute for Women has both a cat and a dog program...alas the current warden hates the idea, hopefully that changes soon. They adopted animals from the local shelter that were about to be euthanized so the prison cats are every bit as rowdy as you'd expect. And as you said the inmates are quite protective of their critters.
one thing about the prison in andor having windows is that it proves to the prisoners that there are others competing against them. otherwise they might not believe that they are actually competing and won’t work as hard
I'm so glad you mentioned Norway. Our prison system has caught so much flak from other countries. Notably comedians from America. The prison director of Halden once said in an interview "Who do you want living as your neighbour? A person that's been treated like a dog for 10 years, or someone that got help with their addiction, financial troubles, mental health and treated with dignity?"
To be fair, the prisons in Norway seem better than a lot of normal living conditions in America. Hell, spending $125,000 on me a year? I'll take it. That's some pretty good wages, more than the actual people that work at those prisons are paid.
Yeah but they are worse then most livingcondisons in Norway. Those prisoners aren't treated better then any other citizen, insted they are treated worse because their fredom is taken away. This sentiment only shows that the USA treats it citizens like shit.
@@erikelenstrom9685 This!! Americans and others who think prisoners have a better standard of living than them, consider that it's _you_ who has it worse than you should've and not the prisoners who have it too good.
@@erikelenstrom9685 You’re right. I’m from the USA and there’s a sinister undercurrent of selfishness and cruelty here. There are many, many wonderful, compassionate, loving, joyful people, but the institutions and structures are remarkably inhumane.
Current society is controlled by panopticon effect so yea. That's why knowledge cannot be labeled to a general subject and every knowledge can be used in various ways.
@@Jewels___very heavy book, and hard to read (both in terms of subject matter and literary style unless you're well versed in how philosophers write and in reading translated books, unless you speak french) but absolutely worth reading, along with his other book The Birth of the Clinic, which does a similar investigation into how the sick, mentally ill and socially intolerated have been treated throughout history in Western Europe
whenever i think about prison and recidivism, i think about experiencing school as an autistic kid. In middle school, I would sometimes get so overwhelmed i'd stay in a bathroom stall for an entire class period. They would send me to ISS for skipping class, but I kept having to skip classes. All ISS did was stress me out about my attendance, make me more stressed, and i'd have more and more meltdowns that I felt the need to contain privately. In high school, my 504 counselor (who was much more competent than my IEP counselor in middle school) helped me build a system where I could communicate with my teachers and do my work in the guidance office, where I could be supervised in a relaxed environment and get my work done. When you punish bad behavior, you lose the chance to fix the issue at it's source.
I'm having a similar problem that you did in middle school here in university as a late-diagnosed autistic student. Due in part to stress and autistic burnout - as well as a regression in emotional regulation skills - I am currently on probation with my university, meaning they'll suspend me if I screw up again. Punishing someone who is having trouble with a condition like you and I, for example, isn't helpful. Working with them to get to the bottom of why it's happening and addressing THAT is. Thankfully, my therapist and I are trying to work through my struggles. I decided to start some anger management classes soon as well. Especially after a traumatic and abusive roommate relationship a couple of years prior, which still has remnants of an impact on me, I have a long ways to go. However, I'm trying; it's just taking longer than most people.
Ponder this, if rehabilatipn and accommodation is to be met, what prevents people from lying about their rehabilitation. Would a deterrent of punishment be more powerful
@@indykkowalski9366 would that be any worse than a system that encourages private companies to have a high recidivism rate by rewarding them with more money for releasing non-rehabilitated prisoners into society? Putting people in a system that has little to no rehabilitation aspect to it and in which simply being formerly incarcerated cuts your ability to even attempt to live a normal life by a substantial amount seems to be worse than "some people will lie about being rehabilitated."
One neat thing that often gets overlooked when people discuss Bentham's panopticon design is that, not only can the whole thing theoretically be managed by a single guard in the centre tower (since no prisoner knows if they're being watched at any time, they must assume that they are), but that eventually you can remove even that one guard, and the behaviour of the prisoners should remain the same, since they don't know there's literally no one watching anymore, and they still must assume the eyes are on them at any moment.
I think it would start to fail when prisoners begin testing small stuff and see that theres no consequence at all. They'd have to work up the courage to start probing though, maybe when an accident or misunderstanding doesn't get reacted to
@@danielhahn55 Yeah this would be inevitable with new prisoners arriving. Introducing new elements into established situations most always leads to the questioning of the establishment.
@@danielhahn55prisoners would immediately test every bit of the prison. How long until a guard or other worker is bribed, threatened, or tricked into revealing security lapses. The inmates may be violent, unreasonable, and aggressive, but they are not stupid.
The latter half of your statement would only work theoretically, for reasons already elaborated by those above me. inmates behave not only because they realize that they're constantly being watched, but also the consequences of what they do while constantly being watched. criminals are lawbreakers after all, & all lawbreakers who deliberately go out of their way to break laws, without exceptions, have habits of testing water & see what they can get away with.
My brother served a sentence in a Norwegian prison, and it was low security which is pretty lax. My aunt told him that she heard that Bastøy was like a vacation resort, with barely any rules or guards. And wondered if he wanted to be sent there instead of (iirc) Larvik Prison. My brother very gently, but firmly shut her down. He said that Bastøy is strictly regulated, by the inmates. You have access to chainsaws and lots of power-tools. And the inmates have an innate hierarchy that makes sure that other new inmates don't "ruin the status quo" for the rest of them. So while it looks chill, it's pretty stressful.
@@v-bait sounds like these “hierarchies” are built around respect and not violence, for example an inmate who’s been there for a couple years knows how everything works and the other inmates would go to him for help. Here in American prisons we have people joining gangs just to avoid the threat of violence from other inmates.
@@richardgeorge2250 I doubt it; it sounds more like a system where behaviour is rewarded based upon the status quo, so if one of you acts up you all get punished for it. That explains the hierarchy and the regulation by the inmates. Why have extra guards when your inmates will regulate themselves for you? It also wouldn't work for highly dangerous inmates which is why they don't go there. These prisons sound like they're used more for minor criminals than terrorists or murderers for example.
@@peachesandcream8753 I can just imagine "Don't you dare do that, we like our privileges and the way things are going, so if you screw it up for us, you wont like the outcome, trust me." *One of the senior inmates says to a newcomer menacingly.* The guards just sit back as the criminals regulate themselves lol.
its insane that private companies can own prisons and make profit off of cheap prison labor it is literally slavery and I do not think anyone deserves that
I was so disappointed Californians didn't vote to illegalize slavery this year. (Most state constitutions have exceptions allowing slavery as a form of punishment. considering the racial bias in imprisonment... we have slavery with extra steps.)
I worked in "Corrections" at the national level in Canada for many years. This analysis is one of the best that I have ever seen. Prisons, at best, 'incapacitate' as Dami said, they (in most of the world) do not rehabilitate, and are, in fact, a very expensive way of making a 'bad' man worse. Great work Dami.
And, of course, there are a lot of ways that societies can prevent crime in the first place. She alluded to that in Norway where the actual number of inmates is so low. When people have a warm bed, roof over their heads, food, clothing, healthcare, etc., they're a lot less likely to disrupt society's laws.
They don't rehabilitate because most crooks are beyond rehabilitations. The only thing that changes most of them is getting older, and even then not always. Look at the American mafia, most of guys running it are in their 70s or 80s.
I just did 43 months in federal prison in Seattle Washington. One of the hardest parts for me was the complete separation from nature, it was a multistory building with no access to an outside yard and frosted windows inside the cells. Also there were no real programs to help people work on themselves. One of the worst experiences of my life, alot of days of nothing but suicidal thoughts, thank God I made it through and I'm doing great now.
Don't thank God, thank yourself. You deserve credit for the strength you showed. It's okay to praise yourself for your successes. You're free now, and you can be more than you were before. I'm sorry you were kept in a cage like an animal. You're not an animal. I hope you find peace and happiness in life.
@@tomb7942 im sure it does make people not want to go back. i think it does so that people would do anything to not go back. so the next time they are in a normal traffic stop they will run from the police and risk other peoples live in fear that there could be a chance that that normal traffic stop could result in them going back. For some people there fear might get so strong that they would kill to not go back...
The American prison system isn't designed for rehabilitation nor do they care about rehabilitation.. The system is designed for a person to fail when they are released from prison.. The lack of employment , housing and a Probation/Parole Department's aren't going to help anyone to stay out .. But they'll sure as hell will help you go back..
@@redpillcommandobecause criminals without jobs are significantly more likely to keep committing crimes to survive. and that effects people who dont commit crimes far more. if you want to improve the quality of living for everyone, you need to help out everyone, even if that means that sometimes you do good for someone you think “doesn’t deserve it”. besides, nearly half of the unemployed in the US have already been convicted anyways. its as if the two are connected.
@@redpillcommando Are you sure they haven't committed any crimes though? How many people have downloaded an mp3, a movie, a videogame..? Taken something from a person or an institution? Exceeded the speed limit or operated a vehicle under influence? Possessed/used a controlled substance? Probably a solid 80% of this country are criminals, technically. And we could argue about some crimes being worse than others but that gets complicated quickly.
@@ogre706 So now you are trying to compare a minor copyright violator with some punk who beat an old lady to death for her pension check. Not going to buy it, but nice try kiddo.
@@redpillcommandoA criminal who has served their sentence has paid their debt to society and should be treated like a normal civilian. The only reason you'd be concerned is if you had the sneaking suspicion that the prisoners hadn't been rehabilitated. As of now, that's a correct assumption more times than not, but it doesn't have to be like this This is also completely ignoring that the definition of "criminal" is completely arbitrary, and that just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily mean it's also immoral, but that's a conversation too big for a TH-cam comment
12:31 It wouldn't be the First Time in the Star Wars unniverse that an Architectural/Engeneering "flaw" was implemented intentionally by someone in order to sabotage the Empire from the inside. Ironically, both stories featuring this have Cassian Andor in it.
@@DamiLeeArch i enjoy your chanel's videos from time to time; regarding this one, i have to say frames 1:00 to 1:01 don't portray a view of san francisco (usa) - the landscape is a view you can get of almada from lisbon (portugal)
at one point i worked at an endangered bird breeding center in Hawaii that was a repurposed prison on Maui. the prison had been shut down in the 80s and just barely remodeled to accommodate the birds and staff caring for them as of 2005). it still had most of the old prison fixtures, including the solitary confinement cells near the watchtower. Solitary was the designated storm shelter for the birds, if there was a bad storm or wildfire that cut the center off the birds and staff would move into the hole. Solitary was absolute hell, even being there for half an hour a week to check on the airline kennels and clean and dust was stressful. the smallest sound echoed horribly. We all hated it, and i was glad we never needed to use it while i was there. Even though the facility was no longer used by the prison system and the only people there were employees of the conservation program that room had an impact on you. i can only imagine what living in one for days or months would be like
I've been so impressed by your content over the years. Expanding the concept of 'just architecture' to all these philosophies etc. I've been following you for a long time and it's been a joy to see the growth and a pleasure to watch. Thank you!
i learned about various prison systems in my civics class. basically, both are trying to reduce recidivism rates, but in wildly different ways. the first focused on rehabilitation, and the second focused on scaring you away from crime so you wouldn't go back to the prison. the teacher never mentioned about the incentive of companies to keep recidivism rates high so they could keep a profit with a full prison. it must be a fine line of looking like you're trying to improve the people contained inside, while ensuring they come back.
*it must be a fine line of looking like you're trying to improve the people contained inside, while ensuring they come back.* Not if you literally can indirectly buy the politicians and maybe even judges to look the other way, or even help ensure a certain prison population size.
It's even worse. Look up the "kids for cash" scandal in Pennsylvania. A for-profit private prison was bribing two judges to convict children _who had not committed any crimes_ and send them to the prison, in order to maximize their profitability. There had been enough suspicion that an investigation had already been held - which cleared both judges of any wrongdoing _just a few days_ before indisputable evidence of the bribery came to light. How many other places is something like this going on? How many laws are on the books to criminalize common but generally harmless activity just to increase the number of prisoners? How much has public opinion been manipulated to assure that most will approve of such horrors? And if the for-profit prisons are in the business of creating prisoners to make a profit off of, are they going to target populations naturally inclined toward violence and brutality or are they going to target the most inoffensive populations possible in order to maximize compliance and profits? Put that all together, and for-profit prisons create an incentive for powerful people to manipulate the general public into hating and persecuting the least violent and most pro-social elements of the population while simultaneously encouraging the most violent and antisocial elements of society to run wild in order the frighten the public into providing more funding for the prisons.
There is absolutely zero reason to have for-profit prisons. Prison should never, ever be a MONEY MAKING opportunity. Such a perverted profit motive and ultimately dangerous mindset.
But as always the verdict is dependent on the person judging, a person that has no tolerance for criminality would judge a country that doesn’t punish criminals as unjust and broken.
The problem with the author's position, is that the premise is that outstanding citizens, criminals are treated as a either/or service, but when the society treats it outstanding citizens, criminals better than other elements of the society, there is an even greater problem. If one is homeless, they don't necessarily have food, shelter, clothing, they may have freedom but with no shelter, food, clothing, that is not a great lifestyle. If they are physically challenged, unable to work, how much can they afford? In some cases, being homeless isn't a crime, but they are treated worse because they aren't fed, clothed, or sheltered. Has one ever visited some elderly cared facilities with senile patient's incapable of moving or able to function? Was Dostoyevsky a prisoner treated better than some people of the time and era?
@@tracyalan7201 i don't remember the quote being about homeless people. You missed the part where a lot of convicts end up homeless after leaving prison, I think that's a bit relevant. Also if I'm remembering correctly it's from a writing of his that was an indictment of the russian governments treatment of their homeless/poor population and prisoners.
Andor’s worldbuilding and writing is second to none in Star Wars imo. Not even the OT has such consistently well written plots, characters, and worlds. God I love that show.
@@n8moHelps that Andor is in the OT era, which helps. The makers of the show are under rated. Same for Rouge One, which they made the movie The Creator, which is a very good movie. Also watch Monsters. Those groups of people are very good with the emotional/human element of storytelling. When Star Wars can have a mom giving her adult son a bowel of Space Cheerios and you can relate.
I worked providing mental health services in a state prison for about five years. Spent most of that time working on high security yards (4 yards). One of the major issues is that the residence didn’t have to do normal activities of day-to-day life, things like putting your clothes in a washing machine, managing your own schedule, etc. It’s that combined with neglect, if the plumbing stopped working in someone’s cell the only way that they could get it fixed in a timely fashion was by acting out. (barricading cell, refusing to lock back down, becoming threatening). So the prison system reinforced those kind of behaviors, and didn’t give people the opportunity to learn the kinds of things that would make them successful on the outside. And everything there is broken, or in a state of general disrepair, living in a place where everything is broken, doesn’t really help somebody grow, or improve themselves. And the correctional officers bring drugs in. All this is the say that the system is way worse than most people realize.
the system is designed to keep prisoners in Slavery is legal if the slave is a convict, and most prisons stand to gain money from selling “prison labor”
I spent several years in prison in Florida, this is so true it isn't funny. How can we want to improve ourselves if the system doesn't even care enough to fix or maintain anything beyond the security measures to keep us there? I don't even understand how this country survives anymore honestly.
The Panopticon in the game Control is actually really interesting. It serves the same purpose of constant observation, but it's because the objects contained within are easier to contain as long as they're given attention.
Minus a unifying architectural design, the situation is similar to Oak Ridge in the 1940's and 50's where top physicists worked on components of thermonuclear weapons without knowing what they were building, all while having their professional and private lives closely surveilled. I believe this divide-and-control strategy is still applied in public and private institutions.
Of course it is. I work in security and surveillance. I have been paid to watch people do very mundane things for months on end simply because their employer wanted them to know they were being watched. When it makes sense I have no problems doing it (such as if the individual is working on a military project). When it is petty crap I refuse.
2:56 I remember when I was in grade school when I broke the rules they locked me in a closet all day and it kind of reminds me of that but with padded walls and nothing in it but a broken chair, I still have nightmares about that, they called it the cool down room.
I'd be really curious to see you do a deep dive on architecture in Video Games. Particularly a game called Control which features a sentient building called the Oldest House. It came to mind when you were talking about the Panopticon design because they actually kinda used it. Overall, great video!
Dami’s channel is crash course in architectural design theory mixed with her geeky love of sci-fi and I’m loving it. The establishing shot to Narkina 5 looked to me like the gaping maw to the underworld. Props for using clips from George Lucas’s film THX-1138, which covered dystopian themes of dehumanization and brutality in a futuristic police state, and I believe heavily influenced Andor.
in 2020 I killed a man in self defense and was arrested for the first time in my life on first degree murder charges. I spent the next two years and two months in a panopticon style jail with no windows awaiting trial. The lights were on 24 hours a day. There was zero privacy. I couldn't even shit without being watched. Everything was white concrete with teal accents. There was no sound dampening, sometimes inmates would scream all night and the sound filled the entire facility. Three meals a week we had a prepared meal of actual food, the rest was peanut butter and jelly or bologna with chips. My mental and physical health quickly declined. I lost several teeth, had to wait sometimes three months to see a dentist. If I needed something, I had to write it on a piece of paper and leave it in a crack in the cell door for a guard to pick up. Minimum 24 hours response time , even for something as simple as painkillers. My life devolved into a state of almost total detachment. Every day was the same. It was more than a year before I saw grass or a tree again. It took the jury less than 45 minutes to find me innocent. I was released in December of 2022, now homeless, with no support or even counselling from the system. Thank god I have some very good friends that were able to take me in. I'm still not right. I lost everything, including most of my sense of self. Still trying to process everything. Random breakdowns still happen. I am not the same man I was. I guess there's not really a point to all this other than to say its not just criminals that face these conditions, sometimes even the innocent can be caught in this system. Post incarceration care is basically nonexistent in the US.
Because in the US the prisons are the modern Cotton fields, they are the modern slave plantations and they are specifically designed to make you as violent as possible so that you become as criminal as possible and return to prison as soon as possible. So they first break you and then reprogram you to become a violent repeated offender so that they can lock you up forever and force you to work for free for them (allowed in most states) And Jails are designed to break your mental health in the Shortest amount of time to make you to attack the guards (out of pure desperation) so that they can send you right to a permanent arrest in a prison. *Prison Industrial complex* for short.
I’m an interior design student from the 🇵🇭 and I want to know your take on the 1981 accident in the “Mania Film Center”. This horror story had been a cautionary tale to engineers, architects, and designers on how poor construction can cause so much casualties and death.
I read about this and what’s wild to me is 1, this sounds like an amazing place for a Jujutsu Kaisen OVA if true, and 2, I cannot find a primary source/explanation for the 169 deaths vs the official 1981 report of 7 deaths. All I can find is the same sentence that it killed “some 169 men” in articles from later than 2000. One paper, 1, cites Lico 2003 for this figure, but failed to include that citation in the references. I understand that this was an authoritarian regime and I’m not going to find an article from 1981 with this figure, but that’s a very specific number to not have an article from a forensic group or labor statistics from the build. In fact, there’s an article from 2017(2) that interviews the original architect and he affirms it was only 7 deaths. He also says the inflated numbers were due to psychics attempting to connect with the dead. 1) www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10357820903153715 2) opinion.inquirer.net/108458/account-1981-manila-film-center-deaths
I always learn something about human nature and our relation to our environment through these videos. They've also changed the way I look at buildings and their design function, aesthetics, etc. Thank you for the intriguing and VERY well produced content. Cheers!
I think the big question is moreso the "idea" of justice rather than the implementation of how poorly it is handled. We see this very commonly in the US where a falsely accused can spend half their life in prison or a petty theft/low level marijuana/small traffic infraction can lead to hard time. While the incredibly disturbing crimes committed by those with political or financial power, can get off with barely even a court case. Up until recently the police force in many US cities could and in some cases with the federal police force still can, immediately resort to deadly force with no trial or even investigation. Which paints a grim and horrifying picture for pretty much anyone who has the unfortunate outcome of getting cause "on the wrong side" of the law. A side which gets determined by those in political power. Not the people in the society.
Also the indelible nature of being tied to crime. They don't want you to do better, or you could get a job. The system forces people to reoffend to feed themselves. So even the people who could help themselves, the people who want to do better and have hope are stuck.
I didn't know about the code of ethics for architecture. I saw a video about aggressive urban architecture meant to make life more difficult for homeless up in New York City. I would love to see this 'anti homeless' architecture discussed from your viewpoint.
How have I never known about your channel. The way you articulate your words, then follow with a punchy delivery into your point/topic is so entertaining and educational at the same time. Found a new fav channel
Btw, I don't think the windows in the corridors were a mistake. Watching the wide shots with the colourless colours,best way to describe it, the windows literally tell the prisoners that they a buried alive. There is no escape. Basically another form of control.
Yeah and some people sleep in coffins while others have deep claustrophobia, the point is that for MOST people, this is lITERALLY TORTURE. @@redcherry8137
@@redcherry8137 That is all kinds of wrong sentiment. Encouraging torture, emotional or physical, and pretending as if redemption does not exist, arguably is so much worse than just killing the persecuted. And yes, believing so means that you are a horrible person as well
This is such an important topic to bring up. Prisoners are still people, and they need to be treated as such. If we ever want these people to be able to live in society ever again, then we have to treat them with dignity and knowledge of human well-being.
Damn, I did not expect you to mention Norway's prson system here. It's important to note that the only thing special about Halden is it's facilities. The principles and freedoms of the inmates are similar, if not broader, in other Norwegian prisons.
Yeah, especially since Halden is the super max of Norway. I think it’s normally used as it’s a pretty “new” prison that has implemented the ideals from the start in its architecture.
@@benjamintomassennordahl7911 Yeah, what makes Halden special is that it has to cater for its inmates staying most of their sentence _inside_ the prison walls. In many other prisons in Norway, inmates can pretty much leave the facility quite often.
@@Henoik Yeah, the prison, therefore, has to "stand on it's own feat" when it comes to recreating normalcy as other prisons will often have work release programs for non-violent offenders.
@@arnimzola1139 The justice system works differently in Norway to the US with all prisons in Norway being "national" as in once you have been sentenced it is only in a national court and you are sent to a national prison. So Halden prison is not only for the 30,000 people but for the entirety of Norway's maximum security prisoners.
Agree. Perhaps about school structure difference across the world and how it contributes to the quality of education. I remember one research where they changed the type of lighting and it markedly improved the behavior of the kids in that class.
That's a beautiful insight Dami. American prisons are punishment, not rehabilitation. And they're FOR PROFIT. There's no incentive to help or educate the prisoners. That's pretty disgusting but the idea of rehabilitation is absolutely inspirational when applied with compassion and ethics. Thank you for sharing this
@@douglasvankammen2916 What are you even trying to say here? That we should continue treating prisoners inhumanely because they might… throw bodily fluids at you?
It’s interesting that most sci-fi dystopias model themselves on an extreme version of the American system (the 13th amendment allows it to continue with people incarcerated). Also in Germany it’s a human right to want to escape prison so you aren’t penalised for the attempt.
I think the Norwegian system needs a system that isn’t so reliant on using workers for the gains of a few, what comes to mind is how well it would work in the solar punk environment you spoke about recently.
In Singapore, the punishment cells in prison only have a hole in the floor that functions as a toilet and the only water source. The lights are left on 24/7 and you sleep on the ground next to the toilet on concrete. Meals come blended like a smoothie making even the food not something to look forward to a lot of people come out loosing 30 to 50 pounds.
I prefer this than what we're doing in the Nordic countires were the victimizer is usually better treated than the victims. I believe it was Sweden that literally had a rapist, who had to stay in the arrest for a few days longer than planned. Get a much higher payout than the rape victim got in compensation. I also believe that the victim's payout was from an insurance vs the rapists payout was from taxpayer money.
The issue is with the Swedish and Norwegian system is, how do you fair ante they won’t change? Humans don’t like to change and when they do something against the law they do it for a reason. If you can’t get rid of this reason you are wasting your time and money because eventually the exact same issue is going to happen again.
There's something kind of poetic in the fact that just letting inmates see nature and sunlight has such a positive outlook on not only them, but on society itself. While conversely, stripping that view down as much as possible literally _breaks_ human minds.
I'm glad I found this channel. You really have a knack for being able to talk about the most terrifying, depressing subjects in a way that makes them appear solvable and normal. I don't know how to talk about this stuff without exploding into military science, Clausewitz, asymmetric warfare, Napoleonic Wars, etc.
I would say the idea of the windows in NARKINA was to show the inmates how small and insignificant they are. Also, by showing they are underwater, it would dissuade the inmates from escaping. The Flaw of the prison was it was understaffed. It should not have been 1 per 100 prisoners. They talk about it when Andor arrives.
They literally said it was because of manpower issues due to the literal Civil War lmao...you're acting like they just decided to have so little manpower by choice
@@ChristoffRevansir, this is star wars. the empire could have used droids as part of security, but they chose not to. it was an intentional decision on the part of the empire.
@@LexYeen the Empire using droids??? They have like one K2SO per patrol squadrons or something but using fleets of droids is not something that'd ever happen in this universe. The whole point of Andor is showing how arrogant and fat and satisfied the empire is, they believe that by designing the perfect prison they have won. Also this is just one prison of many it seems (when Andor leaves the beach planet and there's multiple destinations), and most likely according to the creators, many of the escapees were later tracked down and killed. Also they were able to kill an entire floor when they wanted to, so that made them very self-assured.
Absolutely love this view on narkina 5, I thought it was absolutely terrifying, a prison that was both ‘noninvasive’ but utterly dehumanizing. And what happens when that fear factor fails, and people rise up. I absolutely love the narkina arc. I love andor over all (actually wrote an essay on it) and absolutely love your take on it
I think when most people see this kind of ideology in prisons or jails, they immediately assume that it’s being weak on people who have committed crimes that are truly heinous. In the US we see crime as very black and white (no pun intended) when most of the time the reasoning for crime comes from a state of survival, or underlying issues in that person’s life that can be changed. I do think that there is a very rare individual who shouldn’t be let back into functioning society because they’re truly without remorse or want to change, but the exception shouldn’t be the rule.
During the late 1970's and early 80's in El Salvador, there were floors with spikes like sharpened gutter nails used as traps. An unauthorized person enters and the nails pop up through boots.
Your stunning production is only second to your masterful and thought-provoking storytelling. Amazing work! Thank you for your time and effort. It is highly appreciated.
I've actually had some study classes in one of those circular prisons. It looks a lot like the one shown at 2:09, Koepelgevangenis in Breda. Such a weird building to look at and now it's a cultural place where people have classes, workshops, film tv shows and the circular prison hosts a prison escape experience. Thanks for the nice insight in that kind of architecture!
A phenomenally good video. 'New Dami vid' is the thing that makes me drop everything else and reprioritise, and it's because you guys at Nolli are able to discuss complex things with apparent ease, and without heavy-handedness or any preaching involved.
14:02 I said yes to both hesitatently but instant no for "the worst" because if am honest while everyone can change, that doesn't mean everyone will. And so some people were unfortunate enough that their life produced scars so deep that they simply refuse any help and refuse to get any better and just rather rot away instead of getting or just accepting help. Yes everyone can change, but we should be more worried and about the ones that don't want to change
I found your choice of topics and how you link them to architecture and its sense of purpose fascinating. Prisons are very daunting in general and how countries deal with prisoners sometimes makes no sense, for what the purpose of a prison is supposed to be. Thank you for the thorough analysis.
i cant believe anyone who says that theyre actually surprised that people (prisoners) would act out and get violent when they get treated like dirt from people "above" them everyday and feel like they have nothing to live for, while also basically never seeing the outside world and sunlight. like....that kind of treatment would make literally the sweetest, kindest, healthiest person on earth act hostile, let alone people who already probably have severe (mental) problems. i feel like no one in charge *actually* expects this type of system to rehabilitate anyone, they just dont give a fuck because if there were less prisoners, they literally would make less money. theres just such an OBVIOUS incentive here its infuriating.
Really good video! And I fully agree at the end. A prison really represents if countries want change or just keep going with their "efficient" designs. And it's sad to see that many of the American prisons are private, it doesn't give the prisoners a fair chance.
Great production value on the video. As for the current systems, while the US undoubtedly needs serious reform in the department of prisoner rehabilitation, I do believe it should still be a prison’s job to contain first, punish second, and rehabilitate third. The simple fact of the matter is that not everyone is capable of change, and it is gullible to think that way. The top priority should be keeping dangerous people away from society for obvious reasons. If any of the later priorities or even humanitarian concerns significantly compromise security, they should not be implemented. The secondary priority should be punishment. While I admittedly don’t know anything about that prison in Norway short of what has been shown, I still despise the perception that prison there can be fun. What right does someone who committed a violent crime, or anyone for that matter, to have a fun day of arts and crafts without the responsibility and burdens of a job and bills. Prison is for people who did bad things, it’s not a vacation. Furthermore, there is validity in the argument that those who are incapable of understanding empathy will understand punishment. If prison consists of hard but fair labor, not only do they pay for themselves instead of wasting taxpayer money, it also teaches them about work ethic while still being unpleasant enough to make them not want to go back. Lastly, rehabilitation. Not every prisoner is capable of change or even wants it, and often I think the punishment is needed first. Perhaps the best approach would be to begin rehabilitation a few years prior to release or whenever the prisoner displays signs of being open to rehabilitation. That way, resources aren’t wasted on prisoners who don’t care and the more important priorities of a prison come first. Lastly, and somewhat unrelated to my prior points, prison culture is a huge issue. There are too many “tough guys” who aren’t afraid of being in prison because it’s really not that bad. Consistent trouble makers need to be broken up and separated from those actively receiving rehabilitation. Tying back into my previous points, during the rehabilitation stage then I would find it appropriate for a prisoner to be transferred away from their current group and placed in a much nicer rehabilitation based prison where they are treated better and their progress is monitored. Also the whole “good behavior” thing that people get out early for could be tied in to this process.
It really depends on what type of inmate you're housing. If you have a large population of gang members, rival gangs will try to harm each other. So some prisons are designed not only to keep prisoners in, but to also keep them alive to serve their time. It's a really complicated issue and there's no one-size-fits-all prison design.
Generally my stance is prisons should be divided into ones that the main goal is to punish the one that deserves it and impossible to rehabilitate and the one that might still deserve punishment but not on same level and can rehabilitate
@@chimera9818 criminals don't really care about how bad prisons are as much as you think. usually only people that don't want to commit crimes to begin with tend to be worried about going to prison. so the entire idea of deterrent doesn't work. meaning its not about punishing, if they ABSOLUTELY can't be rehabilitated its about keeping them away from society so they don't hurt anyone. anything besides that its just sadism disguised as revenge. meaning the main goal of prisons should always be rehabilitation. however its important to note that rehabilitation is useless without societal changes, there is no point in giving a inmate mental help and teach them a trade if they are going to be sent to the same society that turned them into what thy are.
If your prison design exacerbates mental stresses and induces paranoia, you're likely to see more gang activity and hostile behavior. You can create conditions where gangs are unlikely to form and where people are less likely to give in to violent tendencies. There have been dominant philosophies around running prisons that suggest encouraging the formation of gangs, reasoning that the behavior of a few opposing groups of people is easier to control than that of dozens of individuals. You can choose to see prisoners as people with needs and desires, or as animals that need to be controlled. And they'll behave accordingly.
@@danilooliveira65801) some people deserve to be treated in a watch tower type prison. 2) you don’t wants to put all the money Norway put on prisoners that won’t rehabilitate
@@bartz0rt928and some ended up there because they mistreated people on level that horrific, so why should we treated in humane way to people that didn’t treat their fellow people in humane way
Used to be a CO, this opened my eyes to the purpose of the structure but also the change in the value of security. Love Andor, that story arch was such a good arch, your channel is dope.
Im a simp for all things Andor, and a lot of thought has been put into its architecture. The prison arc was great, and your analysis on its prison concept is very informative. Thanks! Would be interesting to know your take on Coruscant's architecture too.
Note: in the shot at 1:00, that's Lisbon, not Alcatraz. The statue you see in the horizon is Cristo Rei, the Portuguese version of Cristo Redentor in Rio de Janeiro. Furthermore, on the left you have a Cacilheiro, a "traditional" boat used to cross the river.
A traditional talking point arguing to make prisons less humane and more psychologically terrifying to people, centers around deterrence. Yet these types of prisons seem to end up having the opposite effect to deterrence, given the rates of recidivism. At that point, are we actually encouraging crime by promoting a harsher approach to crime?
I'd say that for those who have yet to commit any crime that's more serious than stealing a piece of bread, the dread projected by the existence of such prisons right around us would serve as a very, very effective deterrence. yet, for those who've crossed the line, such dread would instead serve as a reminder that there's no turning back, no chance of redemption, where the only way to continue to survive & thrive, is to become a worse person, as the other, better side of the line, becomes near unachievable.
@@FalconWindblader yet the US, with its horrifying prisons, still has a notably higher per-capita crime rate than Norway. Deterrence against first offences doesn't seem to work either.
@@pplesandoranges That's for a few reason. Desperation breeds crime. If you're starving and have no money, stealing is easier, drugs even more of an enjoyable escape. Better than doing nothing. And there are a lot of desprate people. Then there's the other issue of th massive problem with police abusing their power. There was an NYC detective who was just discovered to have faked evidence in at least 50 of his 200 cases just recently. Now, not only are people being released a decade to two later but our tax money is going to paying damages for these individual totally in the high millions so far, and that's only for like 10 cases so far. Not saying it shouldn't be to be clear, they absolutely deserve recompense. I'm saying that the cop still hasn't been charged any fee, penalty, or jail time for KNOWINGLY faking evidence. He's retired and still receiving a pension despite the egregious abuse of power. I guarantee you, there's a TON more cases like this. So, you could be an upstanding citizen, the wrong place, at the wrong time, and end up in jail. Then when you get out two decades later, you can't get a job because no one hires "criminals," so you get desprate, do a little dealing, stealing, or drugs to numb the pain, and bam, back in prison. You are now stuck in the prison cycle. America is actually hell for anyone not white and making $150,000 a year or more. Which is most of us.
There is very small minority of individuals who thrive in solitary confinement as they are able contain their composed thoughts in serenity. However for the majority of people who need social interaction, it is maddening to the point of insanity.
I think the poster is confusing being solitary with “solitary confinement”. Solitary confinement in most situations is damn near sensory deprivation. As was stated in the video this is a well known torture technique. Even if you are the biggest introvert in the world…if we deny you too much of your senses, you will lose it.
I just discovered you guys and you've fast become my favorite youtube channel! Thank you for creating such great & unique content. With a mix of pop culture, and insights on society, art, biology and of course architecture! My eyes have been opened to new ideas and views.
Prison should focus on rehabilitation. Focusing on punishment leads to the mental decline of the people within. The dehumanizing way that guards see the prisoners is absolutely disgusting and I dont think is something you can really change easily since it is so cop adjacent that people who can't be cops become prison guards.
@@shadowdawg04There's more truth in fiction than reality these days. It's only a trap if you start to believe in neat conclusions where everything is wrapped up, mythical closure is attained and and no questions remain. That's an ideal state that rarely occurs but it represents hope for many people - even in the saddest and most terrifying stories there is meaning and structure. It's the same kind of world-defining metanarrative that draws people to religion or political ideology, but deeper and older than both.
@@Josh_Quillan We are where we are as a world, as a species, because we have been deceived by our imaginations - our vanities will not yield to facts. "These days.."? You cannot be serious... wishing a thing does not make it so. Arrogance wears many garbs - but it is the bane of humanity.
@@shadowdawg04 We are where we are because we've been both deceived and inspired by imagination. And yes, I feel I can understand more about the world from absorbing a culture's arts and artists than I can by paying attention to bad-faith, agenda-pushing 'non fiction'. Engaging properly with fiction gives us the analytical skills to examine things around us and think critically for ourselves.
Let me clear in saying that I think our justice system in general is incredible broken and a very large part of that reason is the inhumane conditions, attitudes, and architecture of our current prison system. I abhor punishment based prisons, and they ultimately cause more harm than good. Having said that... I think its also very important to note that there are massive cultural differences between criminals you find in Norway and criminals you find in the US. There are ALWAYS exceptions on an individual basis, but I would argue that, on a general basis, hard criminals in the US are much more aggressive and unstable compared to what you might find in Norway, who are typically a more peaceful people in a general cultural sense. The prison in Norway is absolutely something we badly need here in the US, but I think its safe to say that it would only really work for a certain calibre of criminal. These prisons would be a wonderful place for all the unfortunate, hundreds of thousands of people that have been incarcerated on drug possession alone, especially marijuana. The vast majority of people convicted by those means are not thugs, they're not gangsters, and they generally aren't violent criminals. They're pot heads at best and illicit entrepreneurs at worst. They won't be hurting any body, and they have no incentive to be harming or antagonising others unless they are otherwise encouraged to by a system that treats them like they are less than human. That said... there are also criminals who are very, very much a problem to handle and manage in a safe way. I hate to use a fictional character as example, but Tuco Salamanca from Breaking Bad is a good example of the kind of criminal that populates the harshest of US prisons. These kind of criminals are unpredictable, violent, aggressive, territorial, and often as a product of upbringing and environment and not just through drug addiction alone. A path for those kind of people to find redemption or at least help should always exist, but I think we should be realistic in our expectations of what kind of environments we can safely let those kind of criminals roam around in without some kind of supervision. From a humanity standpoint, I'm glad the prisoners in Norway have at least some connection with nature. From a security standpoint, however, the building layout of the compound absolutely horrified me. A terrifying number of blind spots to easily get shanked in, trees with limbs that can be turned into clubs and spears, or to hang people from... you would not want unstable, violent criminals to be wandering around this kind of environment with relative impunity. Many of those poor kinds of people have been forced into a territorial mindset as a means of survival in the outside world, and that will not change on the inside of a prison, it only makes the territory they need to control smaller, but they will still be equally as aggressive in defending it and taking it from others. For those kind of prisoners, in the US, we will still need *some* prisons that require more harsh means of control... but avenues to rehabilitation should always be open and encouraged, and I think programs should exist where if those kind of prisoners have shown true change that they should be allowed to transfer to prisons like the one you see in Norway to continue their rehabilitation, with severe repercussions for violence of course.
As an aspiring urban designer and architect, you are exactly what I strive to employ, I've always seen the beuaty in architecture and urban design to be such a manifestation of things so much greater and almagamation of so many factors and interplay. Its fascinating beyond belief.
I've been inside prison at 2:13 in an abandoned state and before it was eventually demolished, creepy as all hell. Still have the bathroom area imprinted in my memory. Central dome area had super brutalist vibes from inside, all concrete.
Great video, this is the first time I've watched you....and now I'm subscribed. Thank you for addressing this issue with humanity and in a way that makes it interesting.
Prisoners can be: rehabilitated; punished; made a visible example of to deter others; separated from the rest of society because they are a threat to others; or work to compensate society for the crime or damage they have done. All of these goals are in conflict with each other.
I think one prison idea you don't see intentionally, it happened accidentally in Venezuela for a while when the gangs took over, but in the story Coventry by Robert Heinlein civilization made a prison where everyone is dumped in a forest reserve with a forcefield around it. Basically its just letting the prisoners figure out things for themselves. Venezuela did this accidentally when their gangs took over the prisons and they built their own little civilizations.
This was an interesting take! And related to my professional work as a professor of epidemiology, including a focus on injury (violence, overdose, motor vehicle crashes, etc) and social justice issues like homelessness and incarcerated populations. One piece I didn't hear was the reliance of policing/enforcement on "deterrence theory" - broadly, the idea of impacting / regulating behavior by risk of harm (violence, fines, etc.). So *US* prison architecture, as it focuses on punishment / retribution instead of rehabilitation, to me, unsurprisingly uses harm caused by architecture to attempt behavior control - as US risk of violence by police or financial violence/fines in low income populations attempt to curb undesirable behavior. However, like in prisons, (1) humans have needs and desires and dignity that can't be repressed without harm and (2) structural solutions (like architecture / built environment!) are key. Like sidewalks and driving infrastructure vs. deterrence of "bad" driving / pedestrian behavior. Like "Vision Zero" approaches in motor vehicle crash prevention, where humans are seen as necessarily imperfect animals that benefit from robust structural solutions to support better decision making, "crime" prevention - and prison architecture - might do better to follow suit. Instead, we in the US pretend behavior can be well-deterred by, effectively, threat of and actual harm to prevent harm; inhumanity to enforce humanity.
I think you hit the nail on head with this comment. Dami's videos usually have a theme of hostile versus non hostile architecture where the hostile archectiture is meant to punish or needs additional enforcement to enact the desired outcome. The non-hostile architecture is usually designed more to encourage good behaviours. It is all very carrot and stick.
Public deterrence doesn't work. Most criminals do not thing that they will be caught, and if you ask them what the penalty for their behaviour is, they don't know, or care. Personal deterrence has 'some' effect, depending on factors, like age, and personal circumstances, inter alia.
@@gary7vn Public deterrence does work, but only to those who've yet to commit any serious crimes. for those who've crossed the line, yep, such deterrence measures only serve to encourage further bad behavior, as like it or not, they've 'gotten used to the pain'.
The prison system in the US is hell. It is there to generate profit. Not to rehabilitate people. Prisons in Norway are there to rehabilitate people. Not to generate profit.
i love your architectural breakdowns. as a level designer you are really helping me improve my level and game design. if you take requests can you please do a study of how underground/cave architecture would look like? like say a small city or a military facility is underground so how would that look like? and what principles would be utilized in its creation and design
Here in the US, I would like to see a system based on performance and integrity results. That way inmates could earn their way into a better environment based on performance ( work, classroom/higher learning, trades, counseling ) and integrity tests ( leaving food on a table, a door open etc... A situation where the inmate would learn not to be opportunistic when it could negatively affect others ). This would be tailored according to the type of crime, severity of the crime and length of the sentence.
We also had this thought but didn’t get to fully explore it for this video. Maybe they “earn” their way to different parts of the prison with more amenities. Potential for further exploration in another video!
This is basically what they already do at the more ethical prisons they mentioned, but you don’t have to qualify. They assume you will behave, if you don’t, then logical consequences will follow and you will need to prove yourself to regain the trust. This is much more efficient because it communicates to the prisoners that the environment is trying to help, rather than test, them, creating a more cooperative atmosphere.
Though I'm curious about prisoners who have such high sentences and parole dates so far into the future, their sentences are or might as well be life. I wonder what you do with those who are basically never getting out. Do you spend time to help them do better in society even though they lost the right to be apart of it ever again? Or does it just not matter?
@@mill2712 They are still part of the Society, even if they are separated from it. There are some very successful programs in which participation is a PRIVILEGE for good behavior. Some of these involve pairing a shelter dog with an inmate, who cares for and trains the dog for use as a Therapeutic Service Dog or other S.D. RECIVIDISM in these is very low. Other programs have farms inside the prison grounds, and inmates grow their own fruits and vegetables. Skills training for high demand jobs should always be provided for inmates who show themselves to be cooperative.
@@mill2712 In the systems of the Nordic Countries, though they work differently in detail, "life sentence without possibility of parole" simply isn't a thing, nor is giving up on convicts. Any prisoner safe enough to keep in normal-security prisons is free to apply for parole regularly (here in Sweden it's once a year after completing 20% of the sentence), and the justice system will say yes when convinced you can be safely released.
If you haven't seen _Andor_ -- I think it's one of the gretest seasons of any sort of television ever made. Don't worry if you aren't a _Star Wars_ person, this is a dead-serious story about fascism and resistance. No plasma swords or space wizards. Definitely _Star Wars_ for grown-ups with full attention spans, with fantastic dialogue and real sets shot on location. It doesn't look or sound like a cartoon.
It's interesting, because the Norway model sounds really helpful for the prisoner's mental health, but also expensive. I also wonder if it makes crimes seem "not so bad" if prison is so nice.
also this should only work for ppl who are reahbilitable, you wont change a psychopath with any kind of rehabilitation, also reoffending is not as simple to compare when there are different rules in the different countries, so its possible that something thati is crime in the us is not crime at all in norway so there is less chance to reoffend, seems to me there are many laws that are too strict and "make" you commit crime in the us
considering the USA has a prison population per capita 9x that of norway, and only spends 1/6th less than norway per prisoner, the US system is more expensive, add in recidivism. With the caveat of Norway having much stronger social security/public healthcare/education than the US. Humane prisons arent a quick fix for the many problems in the US, but the philosophy behind them applied across society would begin to help fix a lot
That unfortunately would never work in the US just for that exact reason, plus, every homeless person would have a nice place to live, if they wanted one. And why obey the law if the punishment is as nice as this?
@@jerrynix5206 then you just do what Norway did to solve homelessness. Give them homes. Now they dont have to commit a crime to get a roof over their head. Easy.
Complicating the issue of jails in Los Angeles is the fact that a pretty significant percentage of inmates have severe mental illness. Our jail system has been referred to as the largest mental health hospital in the world but the problem is, it isn't set up to be a hospital. California shut down most of the hospitals and asylums because they became places where people were being inhumanely warehoused but instead of community based models filling the gap, prisons became the answer for now. Great video and really key to understanding the power of architecture to foster relationships.
Same thing happened here in Italy in the past decades and still we don't have enough communities which will be able to provide the necessary hospitality and treatment for such people.
Making the jailed people work will both reduce the public spending for the prisons and give these people the chance to find a new "dimension" for themselves.
It won't be easy with everyone, but surely better than having to deal with suicides, riots and criminals who reiterate their crimes, once they are freed
Nobody gonna mention how Regan and the ACLU destroyed the mental health system without any replacement?
"Complicating the issue of jails in Los Angeles is the fact that a pretty significant percentage of inmates have severe mental illness. "
Prisoners everywhere. We cage, we do not treat. (to the extent that we can effectively treat mental illness, which we cannot)
Could be that the prisons are causing mental illness
@gary7vn mostly just Regan's mess he left in California and the whole country
I recall hearing of a prison where everyone was given a cat to care for. Many of them began to grow empathy and responsibility in caring for their cats and those who abused cats were dealt with severely, by the other inmates.
Maryland Correctional Institute for Women has both a cat and a dog program...alas the current warden hates the idea, hopefully that changes soon. They adopted animals from the local shelter that were about to be euthanized so the prison cats are every bit as rowdy as you'd expect. And as you said the inmates are quite protective of their critters.
I'm not a criminal, but I'm also not a cat person. This would be torture for me.
No cat should be subjected to a forced caregiver 🤢
@@politereminder6284 I think they have to apply to get one after they earn the privilege. So no one is forced to have an animal.
@@politereminder6284such a near sighted comment
@@isaaccardenas8829 how so?🤔
one thing about the prison in andor having windows is that it proves to the prisoners that there are others competing against them. otherwise they might not believe that they are actually competing and won’t work as hard
People also need hope to survive. They would work less if they never saw the freedom and open sky they hoped to one day recieve.
I'm so glad you mentioned Norway. Our prison system has caught so much flak from other countries. Notably comedians from America. The prison director of Halden once said in an interview "Who do you want living as your neighbour? A person that's been treated like a dog for 10 years, or someone that got help with their addiction, financial troubles, mental health and treated with dignity?"
To be fair, the prisons in Norway seem better than a lot of normal living conditions in America. Hell, spending $125,000 on me a year? I'll take it. That's some pretty good wages, more than the actual people that work at those prisons are paid.
Yeah but they are worse then most livingcondisons in Norway. Those prisoners aren't treated better then any other citizen, insted they are treated worse because their fredom is taken away.
This sentiment only shows that the USA treats it citizens like shit.
@@erikelenstrom9685 This!! Americans and others who think prisoners have a better standard of living than them, consider that it's _you_ who has it worse than you should've and not the prisoners who have it too good.
@@erikelenstrom9685
You’re right. I’m from the USA and there’s a sinister undercurrent of selfishness and cruelty here. There are many, many wonderful, compassionate, loving, joyful people, but the institutions and structures are remarkably inhumane.
difference in culture. educated countries can self reflect. America is egotistical and stubborn, its harder to rehabilitate
I can appreciate the crossover from architecture to philosophy, human rights, and psychology
:3
That’s why Dami’s the best;)
Current society is controlled by panopticon effect so yea. That's why knowledge cannot be labeled to a general subject and every knowledge can be used in various ways.
Check Foucault, Discipline and Punish (1975)
@@Jewels___very heavy book, and hard to read (both in terms of subject matter and literary style unless you're well versed in how philosophers write and in reading translated books, unless you speak french) but absolutely worth reading, along with his other book The Birth of the Clinic, which does a similar investigation into how the sick, mentally ill and socially intolerated have been treated throughout history in Western Europe
whenever i think about prison and recidivism, i think about experiencing school as an autistic kid.
In middle school, I would sometimes get so overwhelmed i'd stay in a bathroom stall for an entire class period. They would send me to ISS for skipping class, but I kept having to skip classes. All ISS did was stress me out about my attendance, make me more stressed, and i'd have more and more meltdowns that I felt the need to contain privately.
In high school, my 504 counselor (who was much more competent than my IEP counselor in middle school) helped me build a system where I could communicate with my teachers and do my work in the guidance office, where I could be supervised in a relaxed environment and get my work done.
When you punish bad behavior, you lose the chance to fix the issue at it's source.
I'm having a similar problem that you did in middle school here in university as a late-diagnosed autistic student. Due in part to stress and autistic burnout - as well as a regression in emotional regulation skills - I am currently on probation with my university, meaning they'll suspend me if I screw up again. Punishing someone who is having trouble with a condition like you and I, for example, isn't helpful. Working with them to get to the bottom of why it's happening and addressing THAT is. Thankfully, my therapist and I are trying to work through my struggles. I decided to start some anger management classes soon as well. Especially after a traumatic and abusive roommate relationship a couple of years prior, which still has remnants of an impact on me, I have a long ways to go. However, I'm trying; it's just taking longer than most people.
Ponder this, if rehabilatipn and accommodation is to be met, what prevents people from lying about their rehabilitation. Would a deterrent of punishment be more powerful
@@indykkowalski9366 can you rephrase your question
@@indykkowalski9366 would that be any worse than a system that encourages private companies to have a high recidivism rate by rewarding them with more money for releasing non-rehabilitated prisoners into society?
Putting people in a system that has little to no rehabilitation aspect to it and in which simply being formerly incarcerated cuts your ability to even attempt to live a normal life by a substantial amount seems to be worse than "some people will lie about being rehabilitated."
@@indykkowalski9366 this is what we have now and its not efficient.
One neat thing that often gets overlooked when people discuss Bentham's panopticon design is that, not only can the whole thing theoretically be managed by a single guard in the centre tower (since no prisoner knows if they're being watched at any time, they must assume that they are), but that eventually you can remove even that one guard, and the behaviour of the prisoners should remain the same, since they don't know there's literally no one watching anymore, and they still must assume the eyes are on them at any moment.
Dang. I wish I said this in the video. 🤦🏻♀️
I think it would start to fail when prisoners begin testing small stuff and see that theres no consequence at all. They'd have to work up the courage to start probing though, maybe when an accident or misunderstanding doesn't get reacted to
@@danielhahn55 Yeah this would be inevitable with new prisoners arriving. Introducing new elements into established situations most always leads to the questioning of the establishment.
@@danielhahn55prisoners would immediately test every bit of the prison. How long until a guard or other worker is bribed, threatened, or tricked into revealing security lapses. The inmates may be violent, unreasonable, and aggressive, but they are not stupid.
The latter half of your statement would only work theoretically, for reasons already elaborated by those above me. inmates behave not only because they realize that they're constantly being watched, but also the consequences of what they do while constantly being watched. criminals are lawbreakers after all, & all lawbreakers who deliberately go out of their way to break laws, without exceptions, have habits of testing water & see what they can get away with.
My brother served a sentence in a Norwegian prison, and it was low security which is pretty lax. My aunt told him that she heard that Bastøy was like a vacation resort, with barely any rules or guards. And wondered if he wanted to be sent there instead of (iirc) Larvik Prison.
My brother very gently, but firmly shut her down. He said that Bastøy is strictly regulated, by the inmates. You have access to chainsaws and lots of power-tools. And the inmates have an innate hierarchy that makes sure that other new inmates don't "ruin the status quo" for the rest of them. So while it looks chill, it's pretty stressful.
Interesting. Wouldn't these hierarchies lead to more organized crime in the "outside world"?
@@v-bawhy would it? Hierarchies exist in the “outside world” as well. There are literal criminal organisations created in the “outside world” haha
@@v-bait sounds like these “hierarchies” are built around respect and not violence, for example an inmate who’s been there for a couple years knows how everything works and the other inmates would go to him for help. Here in American prisons we have people joining gangs just to avoid the threat of violence from other inmates.
@@richardgeorge2250 I doubt it; it sounds more like a system where behaviour is rewarded based upon the status quo, so if one of you acts up you all get punished for it. That explains the hierarchy and the regulation by the inmates. Why have extra guards when your inmates will regulate themselves for you? It also wouldn't work for highly dangerous inmates which is why they don't go there. These prisons sound like they're used more for minor criminals than terrorists or murderers for example.
@@peachesandcream8753 I can just imagine "Don't you dare do that, we like our privileges and the way things are going, so if you screw it up for us, you wont like the outcome, trust me." *One of the senior inmates says to a newcomer menacingly.* The guards just sit back as the criminals regulate themselves lol.
its insane that private companies can own prisons and make profit off of cheap prison labor it is literally slavery and I do not think anyone deserves that
I was so disappointed Californians didn't vote to illegalize slavery this year. (Most state constitutions have exceptions allowing slavery as a form of punishment. considering the racial bias in imprisonment... we have slavery with extra steps.)
I worked in "Corrections" at the national level in Canada for many years. This analysis is one of the best that I have ever seen.
Prisons, at best, 'incapacitate' as Dami said, they (in most of the world) do not rehabilitate, and are, in fact, a very expensive way of making a 'bad' man worse.
Great work Dami.
Thank you 🙏
And, of course, there are a lot of ways that societies can prevent crime in the first place. She alluded to that in Norway where the actual number of inmates is so low. When people have a warm bed, roof over their heads, food, clothing, healthcare, etc., they're a lot less likely to disrupt society's laws.
criminal college
They don't rehabilitate because most crooks are beyond rehabilitations. The only thing that changes most of them is getting older, and even then not always. Look at the American mafia, most of guys running it are in their 70s or 80s.
That's crazy because the most violent members of Canadian society are regularly released to re-offend.
I just did 43 months in federal prison in Seattle Washington. One of the hardest parts for me was the complete separation from nature, it was a multistory building with no access to an outside yard and frosted windows inside the cells. Also there were no real programs to help people work on themselves. One of the worst experiences of my life, alot of days of nothing but suicidal thoughts, thank God I made it through and I'm doing great now.
❤
Don't thank God, thank yourself. You deserve credit for the strength you showed. It's okay to praise yourself for your successes. You're free now, and you can be more than you were before. I'm sorry you were kept in a cage like an animal. You're not an animal. I hope you find peace and happiness in life.
@@chrismanuel9768Even your god give punishment to the ones who had did bad deeds in their life in hell
Did it make you determined to never do anything again to ever be sent back?
@@tomb7942 im sure it does make people not want to go back. i think it does so that people would do anything to not go back. so the next time they are in a normal traffic stop they will run from the police and risk other peoples live in fear that there could be a chance that that normal traffic stop could result in them going back. For some people there fear might get so strong that they would kill to not go back...
The American prison system isn't designed for rehabilitation nor do they care about rehabilitation.. The system is designed for a person to fail when they are released from prison.. The lack of employment , housing and a Probation/Parole Department's aren't going to help anyone to stay out .. But they'll sure as hell will help you go back..
Why should a criminal get a job when many Americans who have not committed crimes are unemployed?
@@redpillcommandobecause criminals without jobs are significantly more likely to keep committing crimes to survive. and that effects people who dont commit crimes far more. if you want to improve the quality of living for everyone, you need to help out everyone, even if that means that sometimes you do good for someone you think “doesn’t deserve it”. besides, nearly half of the unemployed in the US have already been convicted anyways. its as if the two are connected.
@@redpillcommando Are you sure they haven't committed any crimes though? How many people have downloaded an mp3, a movie, a videogame..? Taken something from a person or an institution? Exceeded the speed limit or operated a vehicle under influence? Possessed/used a controlled substance? Probably a solid 80% of this country are criminals, technically. And we could argue about some crimes being worse than others but that gets complicated quickly.
@@ogre706 So now you are trying to compare a minor copyright violator with some punk who beat an old lady to death for her pension check. Not going to buy it, but nice try kiddo.
@@redpillcommandoA criminal who has served their sentence has paid their debt to society and should be treated like a normal civilian. The only reason you'd be concerned is if you had the sneaking suspicion that the prisoners hadn't been rehabilitated. As of now, that's a correct assumption more times than not, but it doesn't have to be like this
This is also completely ignoring that the definition of "criminal" is completely arbitrary, and that just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily mean it's also immoral, but that's a conversation too big for a TH-cam comment
12:31 It wouldn't be the First Time in the Star Wars unniverse that an Architectural/Engeneering "flaw" was implemented intentionally by someone in order to sabotage the Empire from the inside. Ironically, both stories featuring this have Cassian Andor in it.
The “flaw” drives the narrative!
The “flaw” provides opportunity and hope.
@@DamiLeeArch i enjoy your chanel's videos from time to time; regarding this one, i have to say frames 1:00 to 1:01 don't portray a view of san francisco (usa) - the landscape is a view you can get of almada from lisbon (portugal)
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@@DamiLeeArch As @newmember89 said, without hope workers will be much less effective. They need to see the open sky they long to have again.
at one point i worked at an endangered bird breeding center in Hawaii that was a repurposed prison on Maui. the prison had been shut down in the 80s and just barely remodeled to accommodate the birds and staff caring for them as of 2005). it still had most of the old prison fixtures, including the solitary confinement cells near the watchtower. Solitary was the designated storm shelter for the birds, if there was a bad storm or wildfire that cut the center off the birds and staff would move into the hole. Solitary was absolute hell, even being there for half an hour a week to check on the airline kennels and clean and dust was stressful. the smallest sound echoed horribly. We all hated it, and i was glad we never needed to use it while i was there. Even though the facility was no longer used by the prison system and the only people there were employees of the conservation program that room had an impact on you. i can only imagine what living in one for days or months would be like
I apologise, but your job Kunde interesting as someone interested in wildlife as a career. What was it like? The job, I mean.
I've been so impressed by your content over the years. Expanding the concept of 'just architecture' to all these philosophies etc. I've been following you for a long time and it's been a joy to see the growth and a pleasure to watch.
Thank you!
i learned about various prison systems in my civics class. basically, both are trying to reduce recidivism rates, but in wildly different ways. the first focused on rehabilitation, and the second focused on scaring you away from crime so you wouldn't go back to the prison. the teacher never mentioned about the incentive of companies to keep recidivism rates high so they could keep a profit with a full prison. it must be a fine line of looking like you're trying to improve the people contained inside, while ensuring they come back.
*it must be a fine line of looking like you're trying to improve the people contained inside, while ensuring they come back.*
Not if you literally can indirectly buy the politicians and maybe even judges to look the other way, or even help ensure a certain prison population size.
thats my biggest problem with for profit prisons
It's even worse. Look up the "kids for cash" scandal in Pennsylvania.
A for-profit private prison was bribing two judges to convict children _who had not committed any crimes_ and send them to the prison, in order to maximize their profitability.
There had been enough suspicion that an investigation had already been held - which cleared both judges of any wrongdoing _just a few days_ before indisputable evidence of the bribery came to light.
How many other places is something like this going on? How many laws are on the books to criminalize common but generally harmless activity just to increase the number of prisoners? How much has public opinion been manipulated to assure that most will approve of such horrors?
And if the for-profit prisons are in the business of creating prisoners to make a profit off of, are they going to target populations naturally inclined toward violence and brutality or are they going to target the most inoffensive populations possible in order to maximize compliance and profits?
Put that all together, and for-profit prisons create an incentive for powerful people to manipulate the general public into hating and persecuting the least violent and most pro-social elements of the population while simultaneously encouraging the most violent and antisocial elements of society to run wild in order the frighten the public into providing more funding for the prisons.
There is absolutely zero reason to have for-profit prisons.
Prison should never, ever be a MONEY MAKING opportunity. Such a perverted profit motive and ultimately dangerous mindset.
Did they address that punishment genaraly is more likly to worsen behavior than to improv it?
“A society should be judged not by how it treats its outstanding citizens but by how it treats its criminals.”
Fyodor Dostoyevsky
He was so fucking based, he had an absolutely amazing grasp on human morailty and he'd fucking hate how prisoners are exploited.
But as always the verdict is dependent on the person judging, a person that has no tolerance for criminality would judge a country that doesn’t punish criminals as unjust and broken.
@@wolfengod8277 and there will always be people to oppose them.
The problem with the author's position, is that the premise is that outstanding citizens, criminals are treated as a either/or service, but when the society treats it outstanding citizens, criminals better than other elements of the society, there is an even greater problem. If one is homeless, they don't necessarily have food, shelter, clothing, they may have freedom but with no shelter, food, clothing, that is not a great lifestyle. If they are physically challenged, unable to work, how much can they afford? In some cases, being homeless isn't a crime, but they are treated worse because they aren't fed, clothed, or sheltered. Has one ever visited some elderly cared facilities with senile patient's incapable of moving or able to function? Was Dostoyevsky a prisoner treated better than some people of the time and era?
@@tracyalan7201 i don't remember the quote being about homeless people.
You missed the part where a lot of convicts end up homeless after leaving prison, I think that's a bit relevant.
Also if I'm remembering correctly it's from a writing of his that was an indictment of the russian governments treatment of their homeless/poor population and prisoners.
I never thought i would be into architecture, but ive been binging your videos the past few days
So its a very efficient prison. Disturbing but efficient. That's why Andor is an amazing show, lightyears away from anything else Disney made!
Andor’s worldbuilding and writing is second to none in Star Wars imo. Not even the OT has such consistently well written plots, characters, and worlds.
God I love that show.
@@n8moHelps that Andor is in the OT era, which helps.
The makers of the show are under rated. Same for Rouge One, which they made the movie The Creator, which is a very good movie. Also watch Monsters.
Those groups of people are very good with the emotional/human element of storytelling. When Star Wars can have a mom giving her adult son a bowel of Space Cheerios and you can relate.
I worked providing mental health services in a state prison for about five years. Spent most of that time working on high security yards (4 yards).
One of the major issues is that the residence didn’t have to do normal activities of day-to-day life, things like putting your clothes in a washing machine, managing your own schedule, etc.
It’s that combined with neglect, if the plumbing stopped working in someone’s cell the only way that they could get it fixed in a timely fashion was by acting out. (barricading cell, refusing to lock back down, becoming threatening). So the prison system reinforced those kind of behaviors, and didn’t give people the opportunity to learn the kinds of things that would make them successful on the outside.
And everything there is broken, or in a state of general disrepair, living in a place where everything is broken, doesn’t really help somebody grow, or improve themselves.
And the correctional officers bring drugs in.
All this is the say that the system is way worse than most people realize.
Thank you for sharing this!
Don’t forget the guards taking bets on which inmates will survive fights… and not stepping in whatsoever
Literally killing floor
the system is designed to keep prisoners in
Slavery is legal if the slave is a convict, and most prisons stand to gain money from selling “prison labor”
I spent several years in prison in Florida, this is so true it isn't funny. How can we want to improve ourselves if the system doesn't even care enough to fix or maintain anything beyond the security measures to keep us there? I don't even understand how this country survives anymore honestly.
The Panopticon in the game Control is actually really interesting. It serves the same purpose of constant observation, but it's because the objects contained within are easier to contain as long as they're given attention.
Your videos are somehow remarkably emotive, educational, calming and stimulating... at the same time. A joy to experience every time.
Thank you 🙏
I agree 200%
Minus a unifying architectural design, the situation is similar to Oak Ridge in the 1940's and 50's where top physicists worked on components of thermonuclear weapons without knowing what they were building, all while having their professional and private lives closely surveilled. I believe this divide-and-control strategy is still applied in public and private institutions.
Of course it is. I work in security and surveillance. I have been paid to watch people do very mundane things for months on end simply because their employer wanted them to know they were being watched. When it makes sense I have no problems doing it (such as if the individual is working on a military project). When it is petty crap I refuse.
ouch, spoilers! xD
2:56 I remember when I was in grade school when I broke the rules they locked me in a closet all day and it kind of reminds me of that but with padded walls and nothing in it but a broken chair, I still have nightmares about that, they called it the cool down room.
I'd be really curious to see you do a deep dive on architecture in Video Games. Particularly a game called Control which features a sentient building called the Oldest House. It came to mind when you were talking about the Panopticon design because they actually kinda used it. Overall, great video!
Wow looks like it could be a tv show! I will check it out, thanks!
Control was a great game and the spaces in the house was just so intriguing and funny😊
Will never forget the maze!!
Dami’s channel is crash course in architectural design theory mixed with her geeky love of sci-fi and I’m loving it.
The establishing shot to Narkina 5 looked to me like the gaping maw to the underworld. Props for using clips from George Lucas’s film THX-1138, which covered dystopian themes of dehumanization and brutality in a futuristic police state, and I believe heavily influenced Andor.
if you know Star Wars original history it is set in the future and ties into THX-1138. it isn't a police state. computers took over
Yeah, loved how they kept that theme up. What's also funny is that THX1138 is also the same number of letters and numbers for my log-in ID at work.
in 2020 I killed a man in self defense and was arrested for the first time in my life on first degree murder charges. I spent the next two years and two months in a panopticon style jail with no windows awaiting trial. The lights were on 24 hours a day. There was zero privacy. I couldn't even shit without being watched. Everything was white concrete with teal accents. There was no sound dampening, sometimes inmates would scream all night and the sound filled the entire facility. Three meals a week we had a prepared meal of actual food, the rest was peanut butter and jelly or bologna with chips. My mental and physical health quickly declined. I lost several teeth, had to wait sometimes three months to see a dentist. If I needed something, I had to write it on a piece of paper and leave it in a crack in the cell door for a guard to pick up. Minimum 24 hours response time , even for something as simple as painkillers. My life devolved into a state of almost total detachment. Every day was the same. It was more than a year before I saw grass or a tree again.
It took the jury less than 45 minutes to find me innocent.
I was released in December of 2022, now homeless, with no support or even counselling from the system. Thank god I have some very good friends that were able to take me in.
I'm still not right. I lost everything, including most of my sense of self. Still trying to process everything. Random breakdowns still happen. I am not the same man I was.
I guess there's not really a point to all this other than to say its not just criminals that face these conditions, sometimes even the innocent can be caught in this system. Post incarceration care is basically nonexistent in the US.
Sorry for what happened to you, thx for sharing.
Because in the US the prisons are the modern Cotton fields, they are the modern slave plantations and they are specifically designed to make you as violent as possible so that you become as criminal as possible and return to prison as soon as possible.
So they first break you and then reprogram you to become a violent repeated offender so that they can lock you up forever and force you to work for free for them (allowed in most states)
And Jails are designed to break your mental health in the Shortest amount of time to make you to attack the guards (out of pure desperation) so that they can send you right to a permanent arrest in a prison.
*Prison Industrial complex* for short.
I’m an interior design student from the 🇵🇭 and I want to know your take on the 1981 accident in the “Mania Film Center”. This horror story had been a cautionary tale to engineers, architects, and designers on how poor construction can cause so much casualties and death.
I read about this and what’s wild to me is 1, this sounds like an amazing place for a Jujutsu Kaisen OVA if true, and 2, I cannot find a primary source/explanation for the 169 deaths vs the official 1981 report of 7 deaths. All I can find is the same sentence that it killed “some 169 men” in articles from later than 2000. One paper, 1, cites Lico 2003 for this figure, but failed to include that citation in the references. I understand that this was an authoritarian regime and I’m not going to find an article from 1981 with this figure, but that’s a very specific number to not have an article from a forensic group or labor statistics from the build. In fact, there’s an article from 2017(2) that interviews the original architect and he affirms it was only 7 deaths. He also says the inflated numbers were due to psychics attempting to connect with the dead.
1) www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10357820903153715
2) opinion.inquirer.net/108458/account-1981-manila-film-center-deaths
Caribbean abandoned prisons must be very interesting
as a fellow filipino i agree!
This channel covering that topic sounds fascinating. what a bummer this suggestion hasn't been taken up.
This is your best video yet. You've kept it architecture focused while bringing light to a huge issue that affects all of us basically every day.
I always learn something about human nature and our relation to our environment through these videos. They've also changed the way I look at buildings and their design function, aesthetics, etc. Thank you for the intriguing and VERY well produced content. Cheers!
it’s crazy how you step up your production level with each video! love these vids :D
me too!
I think the big question is moreso the "idea" of justice rather than the implementation of how poorly it is handled. We see this very commonly in the US where a falsely accused can spend half their life in prison or a petty theft/low level marijuana/small traffic infraction can lead to hard time.
While the incredibly disturbing crimes committed by those with political or financial power, can get off with barely even a court case. Up until recently the police force in many US cities could and in some cases with the federal police force still can, immediately resort to deadly force with no trial or even investigation.
Which paints a grim and horrifying picture for pretty much anyone who has the unfortunate outcome of getting cause "on the wrong side" of the law. A side which gets determined by those in political power. Not the people in the society.
Also the indelible nature of being tied to crime. They don't want you to do better, or you could get a job. The system forces people to reoffend to feed themselves. So even the people who could help themselves, the people who want to do better and have hope are stuck.
LITERALLY THIS
I didn't know about the code of ethics for architecture. I saw a video about aggressive urban architecture meant to make life more difficult for homeless up in New York City. I would love to see this 'anti homeless' architecture discussed from your viewpoint.
How have I never known about your channel. The way you articulate your words, then follow with a punchy delivery into your point/topic is so entertaining and educational at the same time. Found a new fav channel
Same here. A fantastic video essay.
I know!! And her sponsored section is like a second long. What an angel
Btw, I don't think the windows in the corridors were a mistake. Watching the wide shots with the colourless colours,best way to describe it, the windows literally tell the prisoners that they a buried alive. There is no escape. Basically another form of control.
For the right people this is perfect.
Yeah and some people sleep in coffins while others have deep claustrophobia, the point is that for MOST people, this is lITERALLY TORTURE. @@redcherry8137
@@redcherry8137 That is all kinds of wrong sentiment.
Encouraging torture, emotional or physical, and pretending as if redemption does not exist, arguably is so much worse than just killing the persecuted.
And yes, believing so means that you are a horrible person as well
@@kingol4801 I'm pretty sure they only got out because of the windows, in the show. That's why they said it's perfect for the right people.
This is such an important topic to bring up. Prisoners are still people, and they need to be treated as such. If we ever want these people to be able to live in society ever again, then we have to treat them with dignity and knowledge of human well-being.
Damn, I did not expect you to mention Norway's prson system here. It's important to note that the only thing special about Halden is it's facilities. The principles and freedoms of the inmates are similar, if not broader, in other Norwegian prisons.
Yeah, especially since Halden is the super max of Norway. I think it’s normally used as it’s a pretty “new” prison that has implemented the ideals from the start in its architecture.
@@benjamintomassennordahl7911 Yeah, what makes Halden special is that it has to cater for its inmates staying most of their sentence _inside_ the prison walls. In many other prisons in Norway, inmates can pretty much leave the facility quite often.
@@Henoik Yeah, the prison, therefore, has to "stand on it's own feat" when it comes to recreating normalcy as other prisons will often have work release programs for non-violent offenders.
The city of Halden has a population of 30,000. This is not comparable to any major city in the US.
@@arnimzola1139 The justice system works differently in Norway to the US with all prisons in Norway being "national" as in once you have been sentenced it is only in a national court and you are sent to a national prison. So Halden prison is not only for the 30,000 people but for the entirety of Norway's maximum security prisoners.
Ms. Lee - i would love to see you tackle schools from pre-school through universities in a future video.
Agree. Perhaps about school structure difference across the world and how it contributes to the quality of education. I remember one research where they changed the type of lighting and it markedly improved the behavior of the kids in that class.
Go Watch Andor! It is (by far) one of the best Star Wars series ever made in recent years.
That's a beautiful insight Dami. American prisons are punishment, not rehabilitation. And they're FOR PROFIT. There's no incentive to help or educate the prisoners. That's pretty disgusting but the idea of rehabilitation is absolutely inspirational when applied with compassion and ethics. Thank you for sharing this
How much compassion will you have when a convict throws bodily fluids on you?
@@douglasvankammen2916 What are you even trying to say here? That we should continue treating prisoners inhumanely because they might… throw bodily fluids at you?
@@douglasvankammen2916maybe if they were treated like humans, they would behave like humans. just saying.
It’s interesting that most sci-fi dystopias model themselves on an extreme version of the American system (the 13th amendment allows it to continue with people incarcerated). Also in Germany it’s a human right to want to escape prison so you aren’t penalised for the attempt.
I think the Norwegian system needs a system that isn’t so reliant on using workers for the gains of a few, what comes to mind is how well it would work in the solar punk environment you spoke about recently.
In Singapore, the punishment cells in prison only have a hole in the floor that functions as a toilet and the only water source. The lights are left on 24/7 and you sleep on the ground next to the toilet on concrete. Meals come blended like a smoothie making even the food not something to look forward to a lot of people come out loosing 30 to 50 pounds.
Sounds effective.
I prefer this than what we're doing in the Nordic countires were the victimizer is usually better treated than the victims.
I believe it was Sweden that literally had a rapist, who had to stay in the arrest for a few days longer than planned. Get a much higher payout than the rape victim got in compensation. I also believe that the victim's payout was from an insurance vs the rapists payout was from taxpayer money.
Least brutal part of Singapore justice system
The issue is with the Swedish and Norwegian system is, how do you fair ante they won’t change? Humans don’t like to change and when they do something against the law they do it for a reason. If you can’t get rid of this reason you are wasting your time and money because eventually the exact same issue is going to happen again.
I'd choose Singapore over Sweden any day.
There's something kind of poetic in the fact that just letting inmates see nature and sunlight has such a positive outlook on not only them, but on society itself. While conversely, stripping that view down as much as possible literally _breaks_ human minds.
I'm glad I found this channel. You really have a knack for being able to talk about the most terrifying, depressing subjects in a way that makes them appear solvable and normal. I don't know how to talk about this stuff without exploding into military science, Clausewitz, asymmetric warfare, Napoleonic Wars, etc.
You just found this channel because you came from TH-cam Shorts. And the channel has over a million suscribers, which makes this an enormous platform.
wowwww, you’re so smart and educated
I would say the idea of the windows in NARKINA was to show the inmates how small and insignificant they are. Also, by showing they are underwater, it would dissuade the inmates from escaping. The Flaw of the prison was it was understaffed. It should not have been 1 per 100 prisoners. They talk about it when Andor arrives.
They literally said it was because of manpower issues due to the literal Civil War lmao...you're acting like they just decided to have so little manpower by choice
@@ChristoffRevansir, this is star wars. the empire could have used droids as part of security, but they chose not to. it was an intentional decision on the part of the empire.
@@LexYeen the Empire using droids??? They have like one K2SO per patrol squadrons or something but using fleets of droids is not something that'd ever happen in this universe. The whole point of Andor is showing how arrogant and fat and satisfied the empire is, they believe that by designing the perfect prison they have won. Also this is just one prison of many it seems (when Andor leaves the beach planet and there's multiple destinations), and most likely according to the creators, many of the escapees were later tracked down and killed. Also they were able to kill an entire floor when they wanted to, so that made them very self-assured.
I'm so glad you brought this topic up....
Totally different places for different purposes but disguised and said that they're the same..
Absolutely love this view on narkina 5, I thought it was absolutely terrifying, a prison that was both ‘noninvasive’ but utterly dehumanizing. And what happens when that fear factor fails, and people rise up. I absolutely love the narkina arc. I love andor over all (actually wrote an essay on it) and absolutely love your take on it
Your voice is so soothing and endearing regardless of the grim subject matter
I think when most people see this kind of ideology in prisons or jails, they immediately assume that it’s being weak on people who have committed crimes that are truly heinous. In the US we see crime as very black and white (no pun intended) when most of the time the reasoning for crime comes from a state of survival, or underlying issues in that person’s life that can be changed. I do think that there is a very rare individual who shouldn’t be let back into functioning society because they’re truly without remorse or want to change, but the exception shouldn’t be the rule.
Having a shockable floor is next level insanity
More like "shocking floor", no?
The floor is lava
During the late 1970's and early 80's in El Salvador, there were floors with spikes like sharpened gutter nails used as traps. An unauthorized person enters and the nails pop up through boots.
Maybe our entire country should have a shock floor to stop conservatives from saying all those hateful things
@@tneveca My... What a 'hateful thing' to say. #liberalprojection
Your stunning production is only second to your masterful and thought-provoking storytelling. Amazing work! Thank you for your time and effort. It is highly appreciated.
I've actually had some study classes in one of those circular prisons. It looks a lot like the one shown at 2:09, Koepelgevangenis in Breda. Such a weird building to look at and now it's a cultural place where people have classes, workshops, film tv shows and the circular prison hosts a prison escape experience. Thanks for the nice insight in that kind of architecture!
A phenomenally good video. 'New Dami vid' is the thing that makes me drop everything else and reprioritise, and it's because you guys at Nolli are able to discuss complex things with apparent ease, and without heavy-handedness or any preaching involved.
Am I the only one bummed when I start seeing the credits at the end of the video? I'm always so engrossed that I want to learn more!
14:02 I said yes to both hesitatently but instant no for "the worst" because if am honest while everyone can change, that doesn't mean everyone will. And so some people were unfortunate enough that their life produced scars so deep that they simply refuse any help and refuse to get any better and just rather rot away instead of getting or just accepting help.
Yes everyone can change, but we should be more worried and about the ones that don't want to change
I found your choice of topics and how you link them to architecture and its sense of purpose fascinating. Prisons are very daunting in general and how countries deal with prisoners sometimes makes no sense, for what the purpose of a prison is supposed to be. Thank you for the thorough analysis.
i cant believe anyone who says that theyre actually surprised that people (prisoners) would act out and get violent when they get treated like dirt from people "above" them everyday and feel like they have nothing to live for, while also basically never seeing the outside world and sunlight. like....that kind of treatment would make literally the sweetest, kindest, healthiest person on earth act hostile, let alone people who already probably have severe (mental) problems. i feel like no one in charge *actually* expects this type of system to rehabilitate anyone, they just dont give a fuck because if there were less prisoners, they literally would make less money. theres just such an OBVIOUS incentive here its infuriating.
i love your subject content....it is so relevant but with the added unseen, or unthought related issues.
Thanks for making aware of the torture aspects of the modern prison systems. You are an excellent video essayist. Love your work!
Really good video! And I fully agree at the end. A prison really represents if countries want change or just keep going with their "efficient" designs.
And it's sad to see that many of the American prisons are private, it doesn't give the prisoners a fair chance.
Great production value on the video. As for the current systems, while the US undoubtedly needs serious reform in the department of prisoner rehabilitation, I do believe it should still be a prison’s job to contain first, punish second, and rehabilitate third. The simple fact of the matter is that not everyone is capable of change, and it is gullible to think that way. The top priority should be keeping dangerous people away from society for obvious reasons. If any of the later priorities or even humanitarian concerns significantly compromise security, they should not be implemented. The secondary priority should be punishment. While I admittedly don’t know anything about that prison in Norway short of what has been shown, I still despise the perception that prison there can be fun. What right does someone who committed a violent crime, or anyone for that matter, to have a fun day of arts and crafts without the responsibility and burdens of a job and bills. Prison is for people who did bad things, it’s not a vacation. Furthermore, there is validity in the argument that those who are incapable of understanding empathy will understand punishment. If prison consists of hard but fair labor, not only do they pay for themselves instead of wasting taxpayer money, it also teaches them about work ethic while still being unpleasant enough to make them not want to go back. Lastly, rehabilitation. Not every prisoner is capable of change or even wants it, and often I think the punishment is needed first. Perhaps the best approach would be to begin rehabilitation a few years prior to release or whenever the prisoner displays signs of being open to rehabilitation. That way, resources aren’t wasted on prisoners who don’t care and the more important priorities of a prison come first. Lastly, and somewhat unrelated to my prior points, prison culture is a huge issue. There are too many “tough guys” who aren’t afraid of being in prison because it’s really not that bad. Consistent trouble makers need to be broken up and separated from those actively receiving rehabilitation. Tying back into my previous points, during the rehabilitation stage then I would find it appropriate for a prisoner to be transferred away from their current group and placed in a much nicer rehabilitation based prison where they are treated better and their progress is monitored. Also the whole “good behavior” thing that people get out early for could be tied in to this process.
This is a wonderful comment, and I agree with everything said! We really shouldn’t be grouping troublemakers with people who want change.
It really depends on what type of inmate you're housing. If you have a large population of gang members, rival gangs will try to harm each other. So some prisons are designed not only to keep prisoners in, but to also keep them alive to serve their time. It's a really complicated issue and there's no one-size-fits-all prison design.
Generally my stance is prisons should be divided into ones that the main goal is to punish the one that deserves it and impossible to rehabilitate and the one that might still deserve punishment but not on same level and can rehabilitate
@@chimera9818 criminals don't really care about how bad prisons are as much as you think. usually only people that don't want to commit crimes to begin with tend to be worried about going to prison. so the entire idea of deterrent doesn't work. meaning its not about punishing, if they ABSOLUTELY can't be rehabilitated its about keeping them away from society so they don't hurt anyone. anything besides that its just sadism disguised as revenge. meaning the main goal of prisons should always be rehabilitation.
however its important to note that rehabilitation is useless without societal changes, there is no point in giving a inmate mental help and teach them a trade if they are going to be sent to the same society that turned them into what thy are.
If your prison design exacerbates mental stresses and induces paranoia, you're likely to see more gang activity and hostile behavior. You can create conditions where gangs are unlikely to form and where people are less likely to give in to violent tendencies. There have been dominant philosophies around running prisons that suggest encouraging the formation of gangs, reasoning that the behavior of a few opposing groups of people is easier to control than that of dozens of individuals. You can choose to see prisoners as people with needs and desires, or as animals that need to be controlled. And they'll behave accordingly.
@@danilooliveira65801) some people deserve to be treated in a watch tower type prison.
2) you don’t wants to put all the money Norway put on prisoners that won’t rehabilitate
@@bartz0rt928and some ended up there because they mistreated people on level that horrific, so why should we treated in humane way to people that didn’t treat their fellow people in humane way
Used to be a CO, this opened my eyes to the purpose of the structure but also the change in the value of security. Love Andor, that story arch was such a good arch, your channel is dope.
2:19 in and you're dropping serious knowledge. LOVE this video already.
Im a simp for all things Andor, and a lot of thought has been put into its architecture. The prison arc was great, and your analysis on its prison concept is very informative. Thanks! Would be interesting to know your take on Coruscant's architecture too.
This Team puts in the effort. very impressive ! keep it up and i can see the channel grow massivly in the upcoming year! great work!
Note: in the shot at 1:00, that's Lisbon, not Alcatraz. The statue you see in the horizon is Cristo Rei, the Portuguese version of Cristo Redentor in Rio de Janeiro. Furthermore, on the left you have a Cacilheiro, a "traditional" boat used to cross the river.
A traditional talking point arguing to make prisons less humane and more psychologically terrifying to people, centers around deterrence. Yet these types of prisons seem to end up having the opposite effect to deterrence, given the rates of recidivism. At that point, are we actually encouraging crime by promoting a harsher approach to crime?
Dead people don’t reincide.
I'd say that for those who have yet to commit any crime that's more serious than stealing a piece of bread, the dread projected by the existence of such prisons right around us would serve as a very, very effective deterrence. yet, for those who've crossed the line, such dread would instead serve as a reminder that there's no turning back, no chance of redemption, where the only way to continue to survive & thrive, is to become a worse person, as the other, better side of the line, becomes near unachievable.
@@FalconWindbladerand when you put it that way it sums up the relationship between Jean Valjean and Javert from Les Miserables
@@FalconWindblader yet the US, with its horrifying prisons, still has a notably higher per-capita crime rate than Norway. Deterrence against first offences doesn't seem to work either.
@@pplesandoranges That's for a few reason. Desperation breeds crime. If you're starving and have no money, stealing is easier, drugs even more of an enjoyable escape. Better than doing nothing. And there are a lot of desprate people. Then there's the other issue of th massive problem with police abusing their power. There was an NYC detective who was just discovered to have faked evidence in at least 50 of his 200 cases just recently. Now, not only are people being released a decade to two later but our tax money is going to paying damages for these individual totally in the high millions so far, and that's only for like 10 cases so far. Not saying it shouldn't be to be clear, they absolutely deserve recompense. I'm saying that the cop still hasn't been charged any fee, penalty, or jail time for KNOWINGLY faking evidence. He's retired and still receiving a pension despite the egregious abuse of power. I guarantee you, there's a TON more cases like this. So, you could be an upstanding citizen, the wrong place, at the wrong time, and end up in jail. Then when you get out two decades later, you can't get a job because no one hires "criminals," so you get desprate, do a little dealing, stealing, or drugs to numb the pain, and bam, back in prison. You are now stuck in the prison cycle. America is actually hell for anyone not white and making $150,000 a year or more. Which is most of us.
There is very small minority of individuals who thrive in solitary confinement as they are able contain their composed thoughts in serenity. However for the majority of people who need social interaction, it is maddening to the point of insanity.
Even people who prefer solitude need some amount of social interactions, even if they also need solitude for a larger portion of their time.
Do you have any examples of people thriving in solitary confinement?
@@sxftenbyyes exactly. Show proof.
I’ve been to jail and I can tell you you there is not a single human being who would agree with you.
I think the poster is confusing being solitary with “solitary confinement”. Solitary confinement in most situations is damn near sensory deprivation. As was stated in the video this is a well known torture technique. Even if you are the biggest introvert in the world…if we deny you too much of your senses, you will lose it.
I don't think everyone is redeemable, but I think most people really underestimate how rehabilitation can prevent crimes from happening
I just discovered you guys and you've fast become my favorite youtube channel! Thank you for creating such great & unique content. With a mix of pop culture, and insights on society, art, biology and of course architecture! My eyes have been opened to new ideas and views.
Wow, I was hoping you would cover this prison architecture!
Prison should focus on rehabilitation. Focusing on punishment leads to the mental decline of the people within. The dehumanizing way that guards see the prisoners is absolutely disgusting and I dont think is something you can really change easily since it is so cop adjacent that people who can't be cops become prison guards.
so excited to see the comparison between fictitious prison from star wars and those in reality based on architecture theories
Searching for truth in fiction is a trap.
@@shadowdawg04There's more truth in fiction than reality these days. It's only a trap if you start to believe in neat conclusions where everything is wrapped up, mythical closure is attained and and no questions remain. That's an ideal state that rarely occurs but it represents hope for many people - even in the saddest and most terrifying stories there is meaning and structure. It's the same kind of world-defining metanarrative that draws people to religion or political ideology, but deeper and older than both.
@@Josh_Quillan We are where we are as a world, as a species, because we have been deceived by our imaginations - our vanities will not yield to facts. "These days.."? You cannot be serious... wishing a thing does not make it so. Arrogance wears many garbs - but it is the bane of humanity.
@@shadowdawg04fiction has always been used to critique reality.
@@shadowdawg04 We are where we are because we've been both deceived and inspired by imagination. And yes, I feel I can understand more about the world from absorbing a culture's arts and artists than I can by paying attention to bad-faith, agenda-pushing 'non fiction'. Engaging properly with fiction gives us the analytical skills to examine things around us and think critically for ourselves.
I found your channel a few weeks ago and have been binging it. Thank you and keep up the great work!
Let me clear in saying that I think our justice system in general is incredible broken and a very large part of that reason is the inhumane conditions, attitudes, and architecture of our current prison system. I abhor punishment based prisons, and they ultimately cause more harm than good.
Having said that... I think its also very important to note that there are massive cultural differences between criminals you find in Norway and criminals you find in the US. There are ALWAYS exceptions on an individual basis, but I would argue that, on a general basis, hard criminals in the US are much more aggressive and unstable compared to what you might find in Norway, who are typically a more peaceful people in a general cultural sense.
The prison in Norway is absolutely something we badly need here in the US, but I think its safe to say that it would only really work for a certain calibre of criminal.
These prisons would be a wonderful place for all the unfortunate, hundreds of thousands of people that have been incarcerated on drug possession alone, especially marijuana. The vast majority of people convicted by those means are not thugs, they're not gangsters, and they generally aren't violent criminals. They're pot heads at best and illicit entrepreneurs at worst. They won't be hurting any body, and they have no incentive to be harming or antagonising others unless they are otherwise encouraged to by a system that treats them like they are less than human.
That said... there are also criminals who are very, very much a problem to handle and manage in a safe way. I hate to use a fictional character as example, but Tuco Salamanca from Breaking Bad is a good example of the kind of criminal that populates the harshest of US prisons. These kind of criminals are unpredictable, violent, aggressive, territorial, and often as a product of upbringing and environment and not just through drug addiction alone. A path for those kind of people to find redemption or at least help should always exist, but I think we should be realistic in our expectations of what kind of environments we can safely let those kind of criminals roam around in without some kind of supervision.
From a humanity standpoint, I'm glad the prisoners in Norway have at least some connection with nature. From a security standpoint, however, the building layout of the compound absolutely horrified me.
A terrifying number of blind spots to easily get shanked in, trees with limbs that can be turned into clubs and spears, or to hang people from... you would not want unstable, violent criminals to be wandering around this kind of environment with relative impunity. Many of those poor kinds of people have been forced into a territorial mindset as a means of survival in the outside world, and that will not change on the inside of a prison, it only makes the territory they need to control smaller, but they will still be equally as aggressive in defending it and taking it from others.
For those kind of prisoners, in the US, we will still need *some* prisons that require more harsh means of control... but avenues to rehabilitation should always be open and encouraged, and I think programs should exist where if those kind of prisoners have shown true change that they should be allowed to transfer to prisons like the one you see in Norway to continue their rehabilitation, with severe repercussions for violence of course.
As an aspiring urban designer and architect, you are exactly what I strive to employ, I've always seen the beuaty in architecture and urban design to be such a manifestation of things so much greater and almagamation of so many factors and interplay. Its fascinating beyond belief.
I've been inside prison at 2:13 in an abandoned state and before it was eventually demolished, creepy as all hell. Still have the bathroom area imprinted in my memory. Central dome area had super brutalist vibes from inside, all concrete.
Wow! I came here from the Shorts version and couldn't put it down! Great video and very well-organized.
babe wake up new dami dropped🚨🚨
Oh you have literally summed up my entire first year criminology lecture on penal architecture, I will be setting this video as seminar homework 😂😁
Thanks!
Great video, this is the first time I've watched you....and now I'm subscribed. Thank you for addressing this issue with humanity and in a way that makes it interesting.
Prisoners can be:
rehabilitated;
punished;
made a visible example of to deter others;
separated from the rest of society because they are a threat to others;
or
work to compensate society for the crime or damage they have done.
All of these goals are in conflict with each other.
I feel like punishment, forced work, and societal separation, are all possible and being done within America currently
remember the battle field 4 map with the panopticon? you could set up with an LMG in the watch tower and go on the craziest kill streaks
I think one prison idea you don't see intentionally, it happened accidentally in Venezuela for a while when the gangs took over, but in the story Coventry by Robert Heinlein civilization made a prison where everyone is dumped in a forest reserve with a forcefield around it. Basically its just letting the prisoners figure out things for themselves.
Venezuela did this accidentally when their gangs took over the prisons and they built their own little civilizations.
Australia moment.
This was an interesting take! And related to my professional work as a professor of epidemiology, including a focus on injury (violence, overdose, motor vehicle crashes, etc) and social justice issues like homelessness and incarcerated populations. One piece I didn't hear was the reliance of policing/enforcement on "deterrence theory" - broadly, the idea of impacting / regulating behavior by risk of harm (violence, fines, etc.). So *US* prison architecture, as it focuses on punishment / retribution instead of rehabilitation, to me, unsurprisingly uses harm caused by architecture to attempt behavior control - as US risk of violence by police or financial violence/fines in low income populations attempt to curb undesirable behavior. However, like in prisons, (1) humans have needs and desires and dignity that can't be repressed without harm and (2) structural solutions (like architecture / built environment!) are key. Like sidewalks and driving infrastructure vs. deterrence of "bad" driving / pedestrian behavior. Like "Vision Zero" approaches in motor vehicle crash prevention, where humans are seen as necessarily imperfect animals that benefit from robust structural solutions to support better decision making, "crime" prevention - and prison architecture - might do better to follow suit. Instead, we in the US pretend behavior can be well-deterred by, effectively, threat of and actual harm to prevent harm; inhumanity to enforce humanity.
Wow, thank you for such an enlightening comment, really puts the video into perspective.
I think you hit the nail on head with this comment. Dami's videos usually have a theme of hostile versus non hostile architecture where the hostile archectiture is meant to punish or needs additional enforcement to enact the desired outcome. The non-hostile architecture is usually designed more to encourage good behaviours. It is all very carrot and stick.
Public deterrence doesn't work. Most criminals do not thing that they will be caught, and if you ask them what the penalty for their behaviour is, they don't know, or care. Personal deterrence has 'some' effect, depending on factors, like age, and personal circumstances, inter alia.
@@gary7vn Public deterrence does work, but only to those who've yet to commit any serious crimes. for those who've crossed the line, yep, such deterrence measures only serve to encourage further bad behavior, as like it or not, they've 'gotten used to the pain'.
I do 100% believe in rehabilitation, that anyone can be good no matter the crime that they commit
Congratulations, DamiLee. You either die an architecture channel, or live long enough to become 40k/Star Wars lore channel!
She's been doing scifi architecture for a while now, across MANY IPs.
Hey could you please look into Babylon 5 and how it's O'Neil cylinder system is set up for habitation.
The prison system in the US is hell.
It is there to generate profit. Not to rehabilitate people. Prisons in Norway are there to rehabilitate people. Not to generate profit.
Totally love and agree with everything you said. How do we as architects have discussions with our clients about the need to uphold those standards?
i love your architectural breakdowns. as a level designer you are really helping me improve my level and game design.
if you take requests can you please do a study of how underground/cave architecture would look like? like say a small city or a military facility is underground so how would that look like? and what principles would be utilized in its creation and design
I wonder if they would reuse deep salt mines...
One thing I can get from this is that, on extremes, the best and worst prison is an invisible one.
Here in the US, I would like to see a system based on performance and integrity results. That way inmates could earn their way into a better environment based on performance ( work, classroom/higher learning, trades, counseling ) and integrity tests ( leaving food on a table, a door open etc... A situation where the inmate would learn not to be opportunistic when it could negatively affect others ). This would be tailored according to the type of crime, severity of the crime and length of the sentence.
We also had this thought but didn’t get to fully explore it for this video. Maybe they “earn” their way to different parts of the prison with more amenities. Potential for further exploration in another video!
This is basically what they already do at the more ethical prisons they mentioned, but you don’t have to qualify. They assume you will behave, if you don’t, then logical consequences will follow and you will need to prove yourself to regain the trust. This is much more efficient because it communicates to the prisoners that the environment is trying to help, rather than test, them, creating a more cooperative atmosphere.
Though I'm curious about prisoners who have such high sentences and parole dates so far into the future, their sentences are or might as well be life. I wonder what you do with those who are basically never getting out. Do you spend time to help them do better in society even though they lost the right to be apart of it ever again? Or does it just not matter?
@@mill2712
They are still part of the Society, even if they are separated from it.
There are some very successful programs in which participation is a PRIVILEGE for good behavior. Some of these involve pairing a shelter dog with an inmate, who cares for and trains the dog for use as a Therapeutic Service Dog or other S.D. RECIVIDISM in these is very low.
Other programs have farms inside the prison grounds, and inmates grow their own fruits and vegetables.
Skills training for high demand jobs should always be provided for inmates who show themselves to be cooperative.
@@mill2712 In the systems of the Nordic Countries, though they work differently in detail, "life sentence without possibility of parole" simply isn't a thing, nor is giving up on convicts. Any prisoner safe enough to keep in normal-security prisons is free to apply for parole regularly (here in Sweden it's once a year after completing 20% of the sentence), and the justice system will say yes when convinced you can be safely released.
So beautiful and elegant. Love the tonality of your voice
what a great thought provoking episode. Especially the closing remarks. Thank you for sharing
If you haven't seen _Andor_ -- I think it's one of the gretest seasons of any sort of television ever made. Don't worry if you aren't a _Star Wars_ person, this is a dead-serious story about fascism and resistance. No plasma swords or space wizards. Definitely _Star Wars_ for grown-ups with full attention spans, with fantastic dialogue and real sets shot on location. It doesn't look or sound like a cartoon.
Agreed 👍
It's interesting, because the Norway model sounds really helpful for the prisoner's mental health, but also expensive. I also wonder if it makes crimes seem "not so bad" if prison is so nice.
6:37 Halden has a recidivism rate of 20%.
also this should only work for ppl who are reahbilitable, you wont change a psychopath with any kind of rehabilitation, also reoffending is not as simple to compare when there are different rules in the different countries, so its possible that something thati is crime in the us is not crime at all in norway so there is less chance to reoffend, seems to me there are many laws that are too strict and "make" you commit crime in the us
considering the USA has a prison population per capita 9x that of norway, and only spends 1/6th less than norway per prisoner, the US system is more expensive, add in recidivism. With the caveat of Norway having much stronger social security/public healthcare/education than the US. Humane prisons arent a quick fix for the many problems in the US, but the philosophy behind them applied across society would begin to help fix a lot
That unfortunately would never work in the US just for that exact reason, plus, every homeless person would have a nice place to live, if they wanted one. And why obey the law if the punishment is as nice as this?
@@jerrynix5206 then you just do what Norway did to solve homelessness. Give them homes. Now they dont have to commit a crime to get a roof over their head. Easy.
Amazing topic and an amazing presentation!
14:16 It is possible. We see that in Norway all the time.