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Not enough people are pointing out how Dylan continuously robbing orange just for wheat while they were offering to trade is such a bad blunder, especially considering how much of a quick threat black had become. Like if he plays normally and just steals from black while taking the extortion deals with orange he wins almost every time here I think
yeah this game was kind of sloppy for him, and also bad mannered since he kept extorting and not holding the bargain, lame I dont like playing vs guys like Dylan, they ruin the game for everyone.
Yeah it was just a bit scatty. Dylan is normally great at extorting, I think it was just an example of where online play can come up short against table talk. The actual plays were fine, just the comms were the issue
@@H3llequin blue had one wheat in hand that he literally got the roll before Dylighted tried to steal from oj and he even admitted it, nothing to do with online play, dylan was just straight up ahole i think the table should have buried dylan right there and then, I would totally done what oj did
@@elian958 I think he admitted he just missed that. With him narrating the game at the same time I think he was just so focused on orange he wasn't even contemplating blue. Definitely a bad decision with how that played out but the robbing of orange itself was still fine, just not when he asked for a wheat and then went back on it
in fairness to orange it would tilt anyone to get extorted twice agree to it and still get robbed especially when someone else has the card guaranteed and there is a bigger threat on the table
I can kinda understand orange tbh... what you did to him, even when black was in a far better position, would have tilted me too. Especially with the extortions, where he agrees and then you just rob him twice in a row. You lost this one on diplomacy.
Yeah, his lack of awareness was the issue this game. Sometimes you have to play the players, not just the game. Catan has the option to be one of the most deadly games just bc people want revenge over whoever screwed them first. I lose more games bc I play like a ruthless businessperson than my family who play like complete morons but are so friendly they give eachother ridiculous deals
Orange with those trades man.. I guess was unfair to rob him but they were your army competitor so i am not sure. BTW think u should have taken 9/10/11 with 8/4/5 and got wheat and chance to connect
You earned that L. Mocking orange for being emotional, when you act like a smooth brain by repeatedly extorting, but stealing anyway... I get it, extortion is your go to move, but no one likes it. So when you do it and back out, they like you even less.
Losing this one was entirely your own fault. Orange felt rightfully slighted, when black was the bigger threat. It wasnt him throwing the game, it was you.
Do you think that your role in creating YT content, along with other creaters like dandydrew, have raised the skill floor of the average player? Feels like the bulk of the player base is a similar (higher than before) skill level than before with some variation based on how actively they're thinking/how emotional they are.
you absolutely f'd oj. At least you kinda copped to it post game. Black was always the threat in game. I'm starting to think players disconnect on purpose to take the heat off them before they take over.
Catan was known to turn friends into enemies, even when it was played solely between family members on cardboards. It's an intrigue-inducing game by design.
@@nickydekorte5620It's the game. The same people who are manipulative and judgmental when playing 4P Catan, become polite when they play Chess (unless they suspect that you are using an engine!)
@@andysmythe3077 are you playing online, or on a physical board? If you play online, do you pay attention to the chat? If you play on a physical board, is it mostly 3P or 4P games? With how many different people? And how many games? I am not asking for precise numbers, just a rough estimation.
I don't think orange threw the game, you forcing army for you just threw the table balance over without army and with you and orange battling, orange has 0 chances to win. When they're completely dead, they have no reason to not just revenge on you, a more BTT approach with efficient trades would've probably been better this game, when you pull the mono early and get such a beautiful setup for it with a settle + city + dev turn you shouldn't loose (also in that turn choosing the Dev over the city can't be right when you pull the knight, you pull and on a non-knifht you pull again, and on a knight you build your city because you already can defend army)
I can understand Orange's anger, absolutely. But there's a difference between solo blocking someone that pisses you off, and outright throwing the game through trades n shit. I want Colonist to start banning cheaters. It's getting ridiculous on their site. I really don't understand why they even have a "report" feature when I've never seen or heard of a single person even a warning, and I've seen complete throws and like death threats. Sucks.
They might had thought that the mere existence of the "Report" button would deter some players from misbehaving. And then they quickly realized that acting on the massive influx of the submited reports would be a ginormous time-sink for their devs.
Nope, Mother Nature gave you feelings for a reason. Without feelings you are just a bot. If you think that playing against entities without feelings is enjoyable, try playing against bots.
@@JohnSmithEx I have and do. its much more enjoyable than listening to someone cry and complain about how life isnt fair when they cant have their way. Not sorry for being an emotionally stable adult. its a game and has no effects on your life so why slam your emotions into something that doesnt matter?
@@jc0326OK, I've played with bots too, but not recently. Back on 2015 I was playing against Cadamir, Hildegard, Jean and Vincent on my tablet, hearing the calm music of Catan Universe. Super relaxing. More recently I tried doing it a couple of times on Colonist, and it was a zero thrill experience. Let me change my question. Do you think that you would enjoy watching recorded games on Colonist, between Dylighted and three bots?
@JohnSmithEx let's rebuttal that question how many times have you seen the you seen Dylighted get fucked and go on an all out revenge game? Or does he swallow his emotions and do the best he can to win? Exactly. Put your emotions away and play your game to the best of your abilities. Leave petty emotions out or don't play. Bro I play high level rocket league I see the stupidity nonstop. Peeps just too damn sensitive these days.
They don't throw the game, they just change goals. Instead of trying to win, they try to prevent someone else from winning. Achieving either goal can be equally satisfactory. Actually from all Catan games you'll ever play, the most memorable will be the games where you worked hard to punish an obnoxious opponent. Most normal wins and losses are forgettable. I am talking from experience.
@@JohnSmithEx meh I disagree. The goal of the game is to win yourself. Giving up on that goal 25% into a game and feeding other people resources because you’re tilted is way more obnoxious than stealing from somebody a couple times. It ruins the game for everybody rather than one person. As far as these things go what D did was not very toxic at all and getting tilted to the point of doing what orange did is pretty petty and lame
@@Bozomozo- 4-5 years ago I was playing on the now defunct PlayCatan.exe platform, and after placing my second settlement Blue complained that I took his spot. I explained to Blue that I had no other better place to build. My position was claustrophobic, with very few expansion spots. Two turns later Blue built 3 roads and a settlement, taking ALL my expansion spots. I was left with no space to built whatsoever. Blue could built 2 roads instead of 3 and leave me one spot, but he intentionally placed 3 to kill me. He said in the chat: "That's what happens when someone messes with me". My winning chances had dropped from 25% to a meager single-digit number, since now mathematically I needed at least 4 VPs to win. What happened next made this game my most memorable. I wasn't going to make any unfair trade with anyone, but my goal was clear, to teach Blue a lesson. Blue came very close to winning. I bought tons of dev cards, but not enough VPs. All my knights and 7s had the same destination. My happiest moment was when Blue traded 9 resources with the bank for 3 ores, and in my turn I played my mono, took his ores and bought more dev cards. After Blue's initial offense, the only thing that I typed in the chat was "gg". That happened when one of the other two players won. I am pretty sure that if Blue is alive today, he still remembers this game. 🙂
@@Animexenjoyer yes, I think that _"It’s the non-Americans that always gets pissed at the game"_ is exactly the same as "Every non-American always gets pissed at the game". If you mean something else, please clarify.
@@JohnSmithExthis is illogical. All X are Y. If Y, therefore X. This is invalid reasoning. Even if every person who gets annoyed is non-American, as OP claims, it doesn’t follow that every non-American (as you claim) must get annoyed.
Am I the only one that doesn't see what "rude" thing Dylighted did? He just robbed orange a few times. Does that validate oj ruining the game for everyone by kingmaking?
Dylan, I have to say, recently you have been playing in a way that I really don't feel comfortable with. Too much plowing (but pretending like you don't like doing it), too much extortion, too much partial truthing. I have been following you for a long time and it saddens me to say that you are not setting a good example anymore to young people who look up to you.
Dylan's goal in this series is to become the #1 on ranked Colonist. His goal is not to teach Cristian values to kids. He is currently #60. He is doing pretty well regarding his goal, and this is all that matters. Lying, extorting, robbing, bullying, elbowing, suffocating, is all fair play in Catan, as long as it's done in the context of the game, and doesn't escape outside in the real life.
@@JohnSmithEx I am a behavioral scientist and I can tell you, everything that we do in a game affects or is an indication of our behavior in real life. I wish it was different but it is not. When someone is as great of a player as Dylan, he can win without completely destroying the other players' game. And, in many cases, you can do equally well by playing in a more respectful way.
@@armaoskI am a random guy in the internet, and I can tell you that your claims contradict common wisdom. People of all ages play violent computer games for decades, and humanity as a whole is more peaceful than ever. Apparently humans are amazing at distinguishing between virtual and real environments.
@@JohnSmithEx yes, you are totally right about that. Behaviors do not transfer from games to reality in a literal way. Maybe I was not clear on what I meant. The thing that transfers is the habits we get about justifying our 'selfish - immoral' habits from the game to reality. So, for example, imagine I plow someone and say 'oh come on, it was obvious I was going to do it, he should have seen it (thus, he brought it to himself with his placement and he is responsible for my plowing, not me)'. It might be true but it might not be, it depends on the situation. And deep inside we know when it is justified and when it is not. However, by consistently playing this way and always justifying our 'selfish / immoral' decisions (be that plowing, extortion, lying, etc.) in order to feel ok with them, we acquire this bad habit also in real life. I hope I explained this a bit better now. And I apologize if I made it look like I was trying to end the conversation by mentioning my profession. That was my bad too.
@@armaoskNo worries. I am still trying to make sense of your arguments though. The Settlers of Catan is an inherently selfish and immoral game. Your goal is to be the first to reach 10 points, at which point your are the exclusive winner of the game, and your 3 opponents are the losers. That's selfish. You don't cooperate with the other players towards a common goal. Alliances are britle and short-lived, because eventually if you don't win, you lose. Next, the only way that you can influence the speed of your progression in relation to the other players' progression, is by stealing their resources, blocking their production, and restricting their expansion. That's immoral. If you want to be a moral Catan player you must 1) move always the robber to the desert, 2) monopolize the resource that nobody has and 3) built to the 9 points, wait for all other players to do the same, and then declare the game a draw. That's not how this game is intended to be played. At the moment you realize this, phrases like "too much plowing, too much extortion, too much partial truthing" make no sense. From a moral standpoint, ANY amount of robbing, extorting or lying is too much. Would you teach a kid that it's OK to tell at most one lie per day, and steal at most one smartphone per month? Of course not. So regarding kids and Catan, what you can do is to teach them the difference between doing immoral actions in a game and doing immoral actions in real life. Or, if you don't trust their ability to make this distinction, just don't let them play Catan at all.
catan is a game or 247 toxic ruiners i think so catan must be a game on money like poker...microlimits, mid, high stakes... this pseudorankings dont separate ruiners from skilled players. but IF this is was a microlimit 1$ game they not to do what they do for free.
Not enough people are pointing out how Dylan continuously robbing orange just for wheat while they were offering to trade is such a bad blunder, especially considering how much of a quick threat black had become. Like if he plays normally and just steals from black while taking the extortion deals with orange he wins almost every time here I think
yeah this game was kind of sloppy for him, and also bad mannered since he kept extorting and not holding the bargain, lame
I dont like playing vs guys like Dylan, they ruin the game for everyone.
Yeah it was just a bit scatty. Dylan is normally great at extorting, I think it was just an example of where online play can come up short against table talk. The actual plays were fine, just the comms were the issue
@@H3llequin blue had one wheat in hand that he literally got the roll before Dylighted tried to steal from oj and he even admitted it, nothing to do with online play, dylan was just straight up ahole
i think the table should have buried dylan right there and then, I would totally done what oj did
@@elian958 I think he admitted he just missed that. With him narrating the game at the same time I think he was just so focused on orange he wasn't even contemplating blue. Definitely a bad decision with how that played out but the robbing of orange itself was still fine, just not when he asked for a wheat and then went back on it
@@elian958 I don't think Dylan as a type of player is problematic, Imo he just missanalyzed the situation here almost the whole game.
in fairness to orange it would tilt anyone to get extorted twice agree to it and still get robbed especially when someone else has the card guaranteed and there is a bigger threat on the table
I can kinda understand orange tbh... what you did to him, even when black was in a far better position, would have tilted me too. Especially with the extortions, where he agrees and then you just rob him twice in a row. You lost this one on diplomacy.
I think the tipping point for him was robbing orange then rolling a 7 and robbing orange for wheat when blue had a 100% wheat
Yeah, his lack of awareness was the issue this game. Sometimes you have to play the players, not just the game. Catan has the option to be one of the most deadly games just bc people want revenge over whoever screwed them first. I lose more games bc I play like a ruthless businessperson than my family who play like complete morons but are so friendly they give eachother ridiculous deals
Yea just ignoring him. Not cool
Not sure why Dylan would be surprised when so many of his opponents find him insufferably annoying, considering how obnoxiously he plays.
Lol, you trolled orange too much😂
Black was so far ahead. Feels like you lost this bc of the robs on orange
Perfect timing, my guy. Literally just sat down on the shitter to do battle with the taco bell I had for dinner.
Honest W
Catan is a lot of diplomacy, doing orange dirty like that will make alot of players tilt
The real rage point is that you asked for trade everytime and then just ignored their response XD
I can’t believe I passed on 9 😅. Gg. sorry Orange was targeting.
-OpenSesame
You have a tendency to overthink things
And also to overthing thinks. :-)
Orange with those trades man.. I guess was unfair to rob him but they were your army competitor so i am not sure. BTW think u should have taken 9/10/11 with 8/4/5 and got wheat and chance to connect
@@Peter-q1p7t I know i am just saying it would have better for him regardless
You earned that L. Mocking orange for being emotional, when you act like a smooth brain by repeatedly extorting, but stealing anyway... I get it, extortion is your go to move, but no one likes it. So when you do it and back out, they like you even less.
You definitely did it to yourself this time bro. Orange was right
Editor, flexing like arnold every vid💪
Losing this one was entirely your own fault. Orange felt rightfully slighted, when black was the bigger threat. It wasnt him throwing the game, it was you.
orange threw the game its an online game and he got angry😂😂😂
@michaelh9544 calm down orange
and remember, no grain no gain
I would focus you if i was orange that was savage
Justice for orange lol
Dylan a little classic these days assuming placements for someone to do something totally different and then going “this changes things”
you playing an ows game without wheat?
while having to rely on getting fast ports?
you only had the winning position because you got an early mono
ב"ה
As a wise catan youtuber use to say - "no wheat equal defeat" ^_^
Do you think that your role in creating YT content, along with other creaters like dandydrew, have raised the skill floor of the average player? Feels like the bulk of the player base is a similar (higher than before) skill level than before with some variation based on how actively they're thinking/how emotional they are.
you absolutely f'd oj. At least you kinda copped to it post game. Black was always the threat in game. I'm starting to think players disconnect on purpose to take the heat off them before they take over.
What about settling in 11 4 taking 1 more point , you would have better resources for city the final point?
Why not go 9/10/11 for your 2nd pick?
Dylan was afraid that if he took the 11-10-9, eventually Black would be left with no 3-hex spots left, and they would take his 3:1 port at 10-8.
Hi Dylan I love your videos
I love your videos so much
How’d you manage to post this LITERALLY as I’m updating my suggestions? Haha
lmao. crazy how a game like Catan is super toxic.
Catan was known to turn friends into enemies, even when it was played solely between family members on cardboards. It's an intrigue-inducing game by design.
People are toxic, not the game
@@nickydekorte5620It's the game. The same people who are manipulative and judgmental when playing 4P Catan, become polite when they play Chess (unless they suspect that you are using an engine!)
@@JohnSmithEx nope. I play a lot of catan with a lot of people. Dylan’s incessant table bullying is fucking obnoxious. Also the way he talks.
@@andysmythe3077 are you playing online, or on a physical board? If you play online, do you pay attention to the chat? If you play on a physical board, is it mostly 3P or 4P games? With how many different people? And how many games? I am not asking for precise numbers, just a rough estimation.
nice
One day you'll fix the spelling on "Position" in the intro as opposed to "Positon"
You deserved it😂
So good to see this lost, you completely deserve it
The calculations and exploiting don't work well together
it's always super fun to tilt people on this game lmfao
I don't think orange threw the game, you forcing army for you just threw the table balance over without army and with you and orange battling, orange has 0 chances to win.
When they're completely dead, they have no reason to not just revenge on you, a more BTT approach with efficient trades would've probably been better this game, when you pull the mono early and get such a beautiful setup for it with a settle + city + dev turn you shouldn't loose (also in that turn choosing the Dev over the city can't be right when you pull the knight, you pull and on a non-knifht you pull again, and on a knight you build your city because you already can defend army)
Orange absolutely threw the game, since at no point in the game they were actually dead.
@@alexandernater6284 After Dylan locked army they were definitely dead. And I'd say orange was behind all game.
Not plowing to the 9/10 was a choice.
Unlike poker, there’s no financial incentive to play GTO.
orange robbing you the first few times if fine but throwing the whole game is just toxic and stupid
this game I didnt like
don’t be like orange
Also don’t be like Dylan this game lol. Poor gamesmanship by both of them
I can understand Orange's anger, absolutely. But there's a difference between solo blocking someone that pisses you off, and outright throwing the game through trades n shit. I want Colonist to start banning cheaters. It's getting ridiculous on their site. I really don't understand why they even have a "report" feature when I've never seen or heard of a single person even a warning, and I've seen complete throws and like death threats. Sucks.
Yeah not having a proper report system by now is just poor from colonist, yet at the same time if I say “idiot” in chat I get banned from typing
They might had thought that the mere existence of the "Report" button would deter some players from misbehaving. And then they quickly realized that acting on the massive influx of the submited reports would be a ginormous time-sink for their devs.
Orange being a crybaby. Leave your feeling somewhere else and play your game. Win or lose it is what it is.
Nope, Mother Nature gave you feelings for a reason. Without feelings you are just a bot. If you think that playing against entities without feelings is enjoyable, try playing against bots.
@@JohnSmithEx average road rager cope
@@JohnSmithEx I have and do. its much more enjoyable than listening to someone cry and complain about how life isnt fair when they cant have their way. Not sorry for being an emotionally stable adult. its a game and has no effects on your life so why slam your emotions into something that doesnt matter?
@@jc0326OK, I've played with bots too, but not recently. Back on 2015 I was playing against Cadamir, Hildegard, Jean and Vincent on my tablet, hearing the calm music of Catan Universe. Super relaxing. More recently I tried doing it a couple of times on Colonist, and it was a zero thrill experience.
Let me change my question. Do you think that you would enjoy watching recorded games on Colonist, between Dylighted and three bots?
@JohnSmithEx let's rebuttal that question how many times have you seen the you seen Dylighted get fucked and go on an all out revenge game? Or does he swallow his emotions and do the best he can to win? Exactly. Put your emotions away and play your game to the best of your abilities. Leave petty emotions out or don't play. Bro I play high level rocket league I see the stupidity nonstop. Peeps just too damn sensitive these days.
Never understand why people throw a game they’re stuck in for the next 30 min anyways
They don't throw the game, they just change goals. Instead of trying to win, they try to prevent someone else from winning. Achieving either goal can be equally satisfactory.
Actually from all Catan games you'll ever play, the most memorable will be the games where you worked hard to punish an obnoxious opponent. Most normal wins and losses are forgettable. I am talking from experience.
@@JohnSmithEx meh I disagree. The goal of the game is to win yourself. Giving up on that goal 25% into a game and feeding other people resources because you’re tilted is way more obnoxious than stealing from somebody a couple times. It ruins the game for everybody rather than one person.
As far as these things go what D did was not very toxic at all and getting tilted to the point of doing what orange did is pretty petty and lame
@@Bozomozo- 4-5 years ago I was playing on the now defunct PlayCatan.exe platform, and after placing my second settlement Blue complained that I took his spot. I explained to Blue that I had no other better place to build. My position was claustrophobic, with very few expansion spots. Two turns later Blue built 3 roads and a settlement, taking ALL my expansion spots. I was left with no space to built whatsoever. Blue could built 2 roads instead of 3 and leave me one spot, but he intentionally placed 3 to kill me. He said in the chat: "That's what happens when someone messes with me".
My winning chances had dropped from 25% to a meager single-digit number, since now mathematically I needed at least 4 VPs to win. What happened next made this game my most memorable. I wasn't going to make any unfair trade with anyone, but my goal was clear, to teach Blue a lesson. Blue came very close to winning. I bought tons of dev cards, but not enough VPs. All my knights and 7s had the same destination. My happiest moment was when Blue traded 9 resources with the bank for 3 ores, and in my turn I played my mono, took his ores and bought more dev cards. After Blue's initial offense, the only thing that I typed in the chat was "gg". That happened when one of the other two players won. I am pretty sure that if Blue is alive today, he still remembers this game. 🙂
orange needs to take a chill pill
It’s the non-Americans that always gets pissed at the game for some reason
This is factually incorrect. I do know of one non-American who didn't got pissed at one game for no reason. QED.
@@JohnSmithEx bro you didn’t even understood what I said.
@@JohnSmithEx did i say every non-American always gets pissed at the game
@@Animexenjoyer yes, I think that _"It’s the non-Americans that always gets pissed at the game"_ is exactly the same as "Every non-American always gets pissed at the game". If you mean something else, please clarify.
@@JohnSmithExthis is illogical.
All X are Y.
If Y, therefore X.
This is invalid reasoning. Even if every person who gets annoyed is non-American, as OP claims, it doesn’t follow that every non-American (as you claim) must get annoyed.
Am I the only one that doesn't see what "rude" thing Dylighted did? He just robbed orange a few times. Does that validate oj ruining the game for everyone by kingmaking?
Dylan, I have to say, recently you have been playing in a way that I really don't feel comfortable with. Too much plowing (but pretending like you don't like doing it), too much extortion, too much partial truthing. I have been following you for a long time and it saddens me to say that you are not setting a good example anymore to young people who look up to you.
Dylan's goal in this series is to become the #1 on ranked Colonist. His goal is not to teach Cristian values to kids. He is currently #60. He is doing pretty well regarding his goal, and this is all that matters. Lying, extorting, robbing, bullying, elbowing, suffocating, is all fair play in Catan, as long as it's done in the context of the game, and doesn't escape outside in the real life.
@@JohnSmithEx I am a behavioral scientist and I can tell you, everything that we do in a game affects or is an indication of our behavior in real life. I wish it was different but it is not.
When someone is as great of a player as Dylan, he can win without completely destroying the other players' game. And, in many cases, you can do equally well by playing in a more respectful way.
@@armaoskI am a random guy in the internet, and I can tell you that your claims contradict common wisdom. People of all ages play violent computer games for decades, and humanity as a whole is more peaceful than ever. Apparently humans are amazing at distinguishing between virtual and real environments.
@@JohnSmithEx yes, you are totally right about that. Behaviors do not transfer from games to reality in a literal way. Maybe I was not clear on what I meant. The thing that transfers is the habits we get about justifying our 'selfish - immoral' habits from the game to reality.
So, for example, imagine I plow someone and say 'oh come on, it was obvious I was going to do it, he should have seen it (thus, he brought it to himself with his placement and he is responsible for my plowing, not me)'. It might be true but it might not be, it depends on the situation. And deep inside we know when it is justified and when it is not. However, by consistently playing this way and always justifying our 'selfish / immoral' decisions (be that plowing, extortion, lying, etc.) in order to feel ok with them, we acquire this bad habit also in real life. I hope I explained this a bit better now.
And I apologize if I made it look like I was trying to end the conversation by mentioning my profession. That was my bad too.
@@armaoskNo worries. I am still trying to make sense of your arguments though. The Settlers of Catan is an inherently selfish and immoral game. Your goal is to be the first to reach 10 points, at which point your are the exclusive winner of the game, and your 3 opponents are the losers. That's selfish. You don't cooperate with the other players towards a common goal. Alliances are britle and short-lived, because eventually if you don't win, you lose. Next, the only way that you can influence the speed of your progression in relation to the other players' progression, is by stealing their resources, blocking their production, and restricting their expansion. That's immoral. If you want to be a moral Catan player you must 1) move always the robber to the desert, 2) monopolize the resource that nobody has and 3) built to the 9 points, wait for all other players to do the same, and then declare the game a draw.
That's not how this game is intended to be played. At the moment you realize this, phrases like "too much plowing, too much extortion, too much partial truthing" make no sense. From a moral standpoint, ANY amount of robbing, extorting or lying is too much. Would you teach a kid that it's OK to tell at most one lie per day, and steal at most one smartphone per month? Of course not. So regarding kids and Catan, what you can do is to teach them the difference between doing immoral actions in a game and doing immoral actions in real life. Or, if you don't trust their ability to make this distinction, just don't let them play Catan at all.
catan is a game or 247 toxic ruiners i think so catan must be a game on money like poker...microlimits, mid, high stakes... this pseudorankings dont separate ruiners from skilled players. but IF this is was a microlimit 1$ game they not to do what they do for free.
so many children playing these days
def should have plowed oj even more on the 4 ore to piss him off, coz when a player feeds another its way too hard to win