I'm pretty happy that nobody has identified any of the people in these stories. I think that means I anonymized them enough. Did you catch the "tunes" tho? I was playing the real tunes from the stories on the drums (with the exception of the jazz singer one, which I don't remember). Can anybody tell what the tune is in the Cleo's Needle story?
The 80/20 Drummer dude random Q, but what brand is your zip up hoodie? Been looking high and low for one like that for a long time. Thank you in advance
The best jams are when you get into a crazy groove with a bunch of self-taught illiterates who are surprised that they could make something so cool. When you finally stop after 10 minutes straight of flowing in a trance, everyone is all jacked up: "Holy shit! How did we just do that!?" Those moments are so inspirational because they can't be contrived. It's harder to achieve that kind of experience with a bunch of know-it-all nerds, because they've already been there so many times, and their standards are way higher.
I did this on Saturday with my kids (11 & 8) who refuse be taught music but definitely love an unstructured session on parts of the drum kit while i keep time and basic melody on keys, guitar, bass, whatever I have to hand. Music is in us all but we tap into it in our own ways.
"vibe...encourages emotional infancy and poor communication..." well said. This observation somewhat applies even to self-vibe; its an anxiety feeding head game that messes with your playing.
I had my own Fletcher, when I worked at The Collective in NYC. I was a Bass student there in the early aughts... And was hired on as the facility manager for about two years. The gentleman that was in charge of the flag ship program if you will, who has since passed, and I will say his name as he had a reputation in the community I’m not speaking ill of the dead just truth. His name was Kim Plainfield. Everybody was terrified of him, except for me. I’d come there in my early 30s, already having played professionally for about eight years. Though I liked the knowledge, and due to undiagnosed ADHD, my school experience wasn’t brilliant but that’s a whole other conversation. Part of my responsibility was to make sure that rooms were set up for classes, sessions, and to handle the teaching artists that would come through for master classes. As Mr. Plainfield ran several of the ensembles for the advanced students, I had to work with him fairly regularly making sure that his room was ready to go. This wasn’t the issue. The issue was that he like to bust balls, and he wasn’t used to anybody returning the favor. As I had a really good relationship with the rest of the faculty, his occasional Barb’s didn’t really bother me all that much. I found it amusing. But I grew up in a family where when somebody bust your balls, you bust back. So Kim would hit me with some bullshit, and I’d give him the eyebrow, and make some dead pan, and return with a mild grin on my face, all in good fun. But he didn’t care for this. And I didn’t care that he didn’t care. This went on for quite some time but came to ahead one night when he was desperate for a bass player. The pianist on the gig one of the teachers there, whom I’ve always had a mess respect for Bob Quarranta, Whom I had worked with in his Latin jazz ensemble. He was one of those good teachers that really pushed me past my comfort zone and into levels of groove I didn’t even know existed. So he says to Plainfield, “why don’t you ask Boden to grab his bass from the office?” Plainfield was not pleased but he had no other options. I wasn’t pleased either, cause frankly my bebop chops sucked. I had moved to NYC with the dream of becoming some incredible jazz bassist, only to struggle wrapping my head around harmony, and sight reading. Again all due to an undiagnosed ADHD, which I have since gotten treated meant for and I am back to playing. So I grab my bass and I go in a room and I set up and they put a chart in front of me, it’s a bebop burner man I don’t even remember what it was, 240bpm, 3,000,000 miles an hour 2 feet off the ground you know what I mean? And I can’t get the time right. Bob’s on piano, and we have this amazing student on the drum kit from Italy. But he can’t get it together either because this is a really tough chart. Plainfield comes over and stand next to me with this look of death on his face, and then he starts tapping his pencil on my music stand a hard aggressively violently. And I am trying not to stand up and punch him in the face at this point. Because I am already dealing with enough shame without this asshole riding me, And I’m doing this motherfucker a favor here. It gets to the point where even Bob looks up at Plainfield and says “chill your jets sport.” Not to me, to Plainfield! I finally start to relax into it a bit. But our star student still can’t quite wrap his head around what’s going on. What happened next will to the day I die give me the best kind of goosebumps. It was straight out of a goddamn movie. Plainfield is trying to work with the student, and then tells the kid to get up and he sits behind the drum kit. Flips the sticks around and gives me a look. “You ready Boden?” “Do it.” Plainfield counts off and it feels like it’s twice the speed, and I don’t know what happened man but we were just off and fucking running! It was amazing we hit the weird dead ran through the choruses, and then started trading fours like we had planned it. And we are aggressive we’re going at each other but we’re both smiling because the shit is clicking like a motherfucker! I am so tense, because I’m not at that time a relaxed player, I’m leaning back in the chair so far that I’m almost balancing on the light on the back two legs, we trade fours again come around the head and boom we and then fucking tune like we have been playing together for 30 years. The room is quiet, Plainfield and I just stare at each other for a second. And he says “damn Boden! You got a good hands brother! What the hell are you doing working here?” And that’s the story. He had told me following that he and Bob both if I could learn how to read, they would get me gigs no problem. I had no idea what I was struggling with. Anyway that’s my story, I’ve been vibe many times but, that one was the most intense
@@JoshuaDb_The_Witness hey man tenor sax player here ive been diagnosed with adhd since i was a kid and have been off meds since about 2018 now and have been shedding my chops heavily just trying to break through and really get out there sometimes i can tell the adhd can mess up the understanding of advanced concepts and retaining information in jazz and i was thinking if going back on them for that reason and a few others. do you think overall it has improved your musicianship and your ability to memorize and retain information better ?
It makes a big difference, especially in my generation. I had a drum instructor senior year of high school who I credit to this day as one of the biggest reasons I ended up not pursuing music into college. It was the first time in my life that I felt like I wasn't having fun playing music. And he wasn't even yelling at me! The elitism, the pretentiousness - at the time I thought, "if this is how it's going to be, then fuck it I don't want to do music anymore". Looking back on it now, I probably would have been fine seeing how people like that instructor are the minority, but sometimes I feel like teachers/experienced musicians don't quite realize the effect their attitude can have on the younger generation of musicians.
Those who survive it though are tremendous. His story number 4, about the bass player assholishly making it clear that he wasn't doing a good enough job of keeping time, an embarrassing thing to do to a drummer at a gig. That straightened his timing issues out! It's like tough love, maybe without the love.
It’s a way more social genre, everyone plays with everyone including the best “cats”. It’s common for high level legends to get stuck playing with younger inexperienced up-n-comers. Lots of times the heavies are supportive cause they themselves had gotten lucky and been mentored along the way. Other times the less experienced guys really do make the music bad and no ones got time for that
That wasn't my experience. When I got serious about being a musician, and I was completely self-taught for the first few years of my career, the guys that took me under their wings we're all jazz guys. I mean I was the least experienced guy, and the bass player in a 10 piece funk band, with cats that have 15 to 20 years on me, all jazz backgrounds. They took me on because I had the feel, Even though I didn't even know where the notes were on the neck of the bass at first. But the same Katz helped me out, or my friends and honestly my first musical family. Now granted this was in Richmond Virginia, not the cultural epicenter that New York City is. I have to wonder, if the "jazz-ittude" Is actually brought by the less experience players. Because whenever I have spent time with the real deal cats, I worked at the Collective part of my job was helping out anybody that came through to do master classes. I'm not gonna sit here and name drop, but I got to work hand-in-hand with some of the best jazz musicians of that time. And they were all lovely… Well, Steve Smith was a little bit challenging when I first met him but he warmed up. But, he was a rockstar for a long time before he actually became a "jazz musician "so maybe that doesn't count so much LOL
This is really great and sadly relatable. I quit playing jazz when I moved to Seattle because I got so sick of the bullshit. I was making a great living doing sessions in other styles so I dropped out. Now when I do anything I hire my own guys and run the project myself. I love jazz, love playing it, but hate, hate, hate, jazz snob fuckheads.
I am yet to find a situation where being passive aggressive is helpful in music. I believe we should always make the best of a musical situation even if a player is not up to snuff. If someone really sucks I will politely tell them I am having trouble playing with them and move on, but NEVER in an unfriendly way. There's all sorts of reasons why people don't meet the standard - that's ok - life can be difficult enough without some smartarse being a prick because you didn't nail the music.
To make things a tad political, its funny how musicians (generally very liberal) want inclusiveness and socialist policies on a political level but, are the first (in music circles) to exclude, berate and not share the stage with lesser musicians because they are not up to their own subjective standard. Their philosophy of society is at direct odds with their own direct social network which is a 'harsh' meritocracy or survival of the fittest philosophy. Not all the time of course, some people are nice, and are happy to give a hand up. Its partly agreeableness vs disagreeableness or dutch-ness as referred to in the video but with a touch of nihilism. p.s Nate we want some live gig footage!
Sooooo true dude lol. I noticed the same thing growing up. It was a huge eye opener. They just want other people to give them shit. And they smoke all of your pot!
Real talk. I have a friend who's almost exactly like that. Very liberal and outspoken. But she goes to art school and she definitely puts herself on a pedistool towards people who don't know anything about art, or who are just beginners. What you describe is very real and people act self righteous in politics but don't realize that their actions don't align with their beliefs.
For jazz cats and gospel musicians , it’s much easier to have a political stance, than to walk in congruence . Some guys idolize the greats but have no friends that grew up like (or near) the people they admire. It’s the same way wherever there’s people and money. People want control and as much money as possible .
In some way some jazz musicians seems to be like "oh man they was so bad too me when I was a young player trying to figure out how to be great on a session and now I'm good enough to have revenge for all my hurt feelings and I'm beeing mad at every one who sucks like me when I'm on a session again so we can never break this circle of uncomfort vibes"
@@8020drummer pls don't get me too serious. It really wasn't about hate just a stereotyping which sounded funny for me. And your videos are great and helped me a lot! greetz
Next time call ahead and say your running late, then when you show up say “I called ahead that’s more than most m-fr’s would’a done.” It works! I saw “beep beep” do this back in the 90’s, made a huge impact on me
Totally agree with this. We all make mistakes and shit happens even when we don't. Respecting others time and being accountable goes a long way in dealing with the situation.
"Vibe" has the same connotation in metal, especially extreme metal, but we usually don't have to pull the vibe card out nearly as much as it seems to happen in jazz. Or rather, we don't FEEL the need to pull it out. I have plenty of times, because I don't tolerate fools, and professionalism is paramount, but there are times when education (nurturing, if you will) is more important than attitude.
Dude, I got vibed by Dianne Schuur, live on stage on a one off concert I got the call for. A drummer friend of mine who came to the concert was like, "oh, I just sunk down in my seat. You could feel the ice on the walls." The deal was, she called a drum solo, which we never rehearsed. Cool. So I do some stuff, built it up and then cooled out. She was like, "you gotta give me more than that!" So, I went back in and smiled and continued a solo. You could tell. The unspoken was thick man. In other words, I did the professional thing. Unlike her. Ed Shaunessy got vibed live by Ray Charles about "rushing". Ed never forgot that shit and talked about it in print and in person to me while at dinner. Anyway, I did not go back into the dressing room to suck up after the gig. B.S. I packed up, got my $200.00 and left.
I heard Ray Charles had a reputation for vibing drummers on slow tempos especially? I seem to remember an interview with one of his horn players saying he felt sorry for any drummer playing with Ray Charles; it was the gig you didn't want as a drummer.
Dude I just love your channel, super honest stuff. The cuts to other versions of you talking to you are awesome, really enjoy the introspection and the self-aware nature.
Honesty + Respect. If you respect someone, you will be honest with them about their performance. If you are honest with someone who wants to become better at their trade, they will recognize that honesty and respect you for it. "Vibe" is an awkward mixture of knee-jerk emotional aggression towards awkward logistic and musical situations, but when you can engage those situations with tact, honesty, and respect, the music will, in the end, be exalted.
Vibing people, in my experience, is found in basically every artform in the world. One can make a fairly convincing argument that the "vibe gauntlet" through which every artist seemingly must pass ultimately produces better art. But conversely one has to wonder how many people with more sensitive personalities have been discouraged from sharing their gifts with society due to just one negatively formative "vibing" experience from someone who carelessly or callously called them out in public. I don't know that it ever stops either - even if you reach the highest levels of career success in your field. It does seem especially common in music - and specifically jazz music - because that's literally what the entire art form is composed of: vibrations. Your whole job is to create the right vibe for people and that job is always hanging in the balance of being in or out of time with your bandmates. So it's little wonder that some people get so upset about errors. Vibers also often fail to realize how few fucks people in the audience give about it as long as you can creatively recover from a missed note or beat and not entirely trainwreck the song. I'll never forget when a person whom I considered more of a music scene buddy than a musical colleague called me "amateur" in front of the whole band onstage. It was completely unnecessary and only made the gig go worse. As years went on and social media started to become more prevalent I noticed how much he would post about how other people in the industry always excluded him and his crew from gigs and that they could never get "mainstream" credibility, even after literally doing an opening tour for the Black Eyed Peas. I started to realize that often this urge to publicly vibe or criticize someone often comes from some form of internal insecurity. Perhaps your error reminds someone else of some major flub they had earlier in their careers that got similarly vibed on and their own emotional trauma from that moment resurfaces in an instant, only to be passed onto to you, who will likely remember it the rest of your life because the human mind invariably seems to reinforce negative experiences more than positive ones. All this is to say that, at this point, it's probably better to just be kind to people when they fuck up because you never know how your one negative comment will affect someone. It happens in other arenas too. Hell, I think half the reason we've got Trump as president now is because Obama publicly eviscerated him in front of an entire room of famous people during the 2011 correspondents dinner. I laughed my ass off at the time but I don't find it so funny these days. Vibes matter!
I wonder how many people vibe'd Van Gogh? Personally I have thought if someone is going to vibe me...they better be bloody good and make no mistakes because the ones that have, I've had the pleasure of letting them clearly know they have just fucked up.
Meh, too much bullshit. Life is short. Don't have time to be overthinking if I'm getting vibed. I just move on. Fuk em. Obviously, if you have skin in the game, it's not that easy.
This is probably one of my favorite videos you’ve made - it’s super therapeutic to hear someone else’s vibing experiences...I’m not alone! Also, I love the references to Jiu-Jitsu. Studying BJJ has really helped me immensely as a drummer.
@@thecourierNCR nothing is more childish than this passive agressive attitude, this "vibe" thing. When you are like this, you're not the tough guy, you're the "snowflake"
Read the story in Bill Bruford's autobiography of how he and Tony Levin (bass) was hired for a session by Al DiMeola and DiMeola showed up incredibly late (as in many hours late). It's pretty savage.
These kinds of stories are nice to hear, and I don't hear this from a lot of the other channels I follow considering that your drum channel and others are different in approach. But I'd say for this video in particular I'd want others to take away that vibing isn't you helping other musicians out. It's you just being an asshole and not communicating well. We all make mistakes whether it's being late or having sloppy time, we're human and we can work that stuff out. I'd hope sooner rather than later we start treating others with more dignity because we all have been there, and we start kicking vibing out. Giving someone the cold shoulder is not helpful and won't solve any issues. Just my thoughts though, I appreciate this.
Vibing is necessary to ensure the music is played to the highest form. Most of our culture is satisfied with a watered down version of things, and that, I don’t vibe with. Work for it. Sacrifice for it. Channel your {hurt} feelings thru the music and really really a story
@@jambajoby32 really, i dont think it helps people play at the highest level, especially at a gig... who cares if you mess up really, as long as you know you did it, you know what to work on, being pissy because someone slipped doesnt help anyone
fattyjaybird what I’m trying to say is, if you don’t spend the time to excel and work out ideas on your own, why should you dump unmanaged, uncared nonsense onto others and why should audiences come out to listen if you don’t take the time to invest in your own playing?
Nate, I so get where you're coming from! I'm a new drummer, so I recognise those feelings well! But hey, everyone starts somewhere, so thank you so much for showing us that it's all part of the learning curve and not to worry about taking it on board. Thank you my friend, see you again very soon, Ciao!
This is a good video and a good topic to put out there. Getting vibed, and self vibing will mess with your confidence and playing ability across all genres and ability levels.
I was born in '57 at some hospital in Burbank, California, (then grew up there) Which is is approx. 8 miles north of Hollywood. At the time, Hollywood was becoming the music capital of the U.S.A (if not the entire planet). So in the mid 60's (when I was around 8) we had Hippies. Lots of Hippies. They were everywhere. Although I was too young to be a Hippy, I experienced some cultural drift. The word Vibe, (being short for vibration) was a very important word in the vernacular of not only Hippies, but a smaller % of non Hippies as well. It was used much in music, but it was never exclusive to music!! If someone was being described as mean spirited, nasty, angry, verbally distasteful or resentfully behaved, a person referring to that target someone would say "That person gave me a really bad vibe". Inversely, if someone was nice, accommodating, uplifting, good humored etc... that person would be described as giving off a "good vibe". Also used (but not quite as commonly) was the word 'aura'. That word could sometimes be employed as the transport mechanism for the type of 'Vibe' the source subject was telegraphing to the destination subject. If used with context sensitivity the way you have associated it with Jazz then it was a negative thing to get the vibe. If not then, the word by itself would have an empty distinction. In order for it to be useful in a sentence, it would need to be prefaced with 'good' or 'bad'. The Beach Boys gave proper application to the word in their popular 60's hit song 'Good Vibrations', from the lyric "She is giving me good vibrations". Ok now, I like your videos and I like your channel. Please honor my take on this subject as serious journalism, and not malarkey.
As someone who graduated from music school in 2018, I can attest that younger jazz musicians DO toss “vibe” “vibing” “vibey” around, if only in an ironic tone lol
When I was starting out in the early 70s it was much harder than today to find the level of instruction that I have now for free, back then you had to pay high fees and travel long distances to find this kind of instructors in a small town like I grew up in.
I love this video. So I have a vibed story. Took a gig with a band years ago. “Acme trucking company”. Three piece Jazz, motown gig. I was tinkering in jazz at the time. The bass player was a total “ time controller “. He vibed me the entire gig. Trying pull me back, push me forward. Staring the entire gig. It was a horrible experience and I was tense and uncomfortable the entire gig which we all know makes us play even worse. Needless to say it was a hard lesson for me and in the end it did make me work harder to play better. But man was it no fun!
I've been there too. It's a harsh lesson that you don't forget soon. It does make you work harder. However, when you're sitting in on a gig, it's a totally different situation than a rehearsal. If I find I'm not locking with the bassist I will suggest listening to each other more. Though that doesn't always work either. Live is trial by fire, but playing in a cold sweat isn't good for anybody.
When you paddle out at break that is not your local spot and you instantly get the death stare. You feel it more than see it. That's what we called getting 'Vibed". I feel you brah!
Your exposé of narcissistic society in music circles, applies to many social groups these days, and this behavior is a very common occurrence everywhere. Thanks for speaking out!
I've heard skaters use "vibed" in that negative way. Like you'll get vibed by the locals at a spot if you seem like a poser or a kook. Or if you're just... not local. Same thing can happen at skate shops too.
I did a couple years of jazz band in college in the late 90s. The director was a grizzled old saxophone player who was like a cross between Fletcher and Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino. I loved Whiplash because it brought me back to those days. It was a little scary but I learned a lot and ended up impressing the old man.
Back in 2012 I was filling in for a local hard rock band. It was a Sunday, my one day off from my day job. This husband and wife duo ask me to come over and help them audition a new vocalist. He was a very animated, well known front man from another local band. I agree... The guy shows up and we start the audition process. Can't hear him... So we turn him up. He stops singing into the mic. I stop the song. Dude, did you learn any of the songs? I asked. He replies: well, uh, yeah, I had them, but can't remember them (lyrics) right now. To which I replied - Ok, no problem. Let's call it a day, and call us when you have the songs down. Then he left. I asked the band leaders never to call me for that again, unless they plan on paying me hourly. I kept my cool, but I was fucking livid. A waste of a beautiful sunday.. The dude never called back. In 2013 their relationship ended, and I had a very good run with the band with a new bassist and vocalist. It was fun, but I wish I had played better, and wish our recordings weren't "doctored" up by the local blowhard, piece of shit "producer/engineer" that's apparently best friends with every celebrity that ever existed... Bit, in my defense, I had just bought a car wash business in the worst winter our state would have in 100 years.. Possibly being in the band saved my life..
A quick personal story. Back in 2014 played in a Mowtown band. The leader kept gaslighting me. It was really hard on my sprit and mentally effected me. So I left the band. The band eventually broke up due to internal infighting. Fast forwards 2019. Playing gigs with a another band. They love the way I approach the music and treat me like a drum hero. Band chemestry and sure can make or break the situation. There are players that can be a handful to deal with, others a joy to play with. Anyways I enjoy your channel as the #1 of all drum channels.
This is really interesting from a social commentary point of view. Well thought out/written (seeing as how you're a jazz guy, maybe you just have a lead sheet for the script and just improvise the rest). Really enjoyed it, thanks very much.
None of it would've happened if you could play reggae and count out loud the smallest subdivisions in whatever phrases you're playing while you practice I'll troll you until you do both of these things: - Seriously apply Dave di Censo's method for 3 months - Seriously study roots reggae (Carlton Barrett etc) for 3 months Then I'll disappear as I arrived, and won't even charge you a dollar
I played garage band rock in my yout [sic], then got an engineering degree and had a career at that. As I neared retirement, I dusted off my '64 Slingerlands and began to practice, even taking lessons again. After I thought I was good enough, I cautiously approached a jam night at a blues club, where you sign up and they mix and match players for short sets. Yes, East Tennessee has a blues club. I went periodically for a few months and got acquainted with the house drummer, who dropped subtle hints that I missed, about how to not play too loud, and being ahead or behind the beat. I honestly thought I was holding my own, but NO ONE EVER SPOKE TO ME AFTERWARDS (a clue for some people, but for me? Nooooo. I kept coming back) Finally, after a few months of this, the house bass player said to me "You know you're late on everything, don't you?" A-HAH! Now it all makes sense. I was the poop in the punchbowl, and they were putting off telling me. Maybe the un-vibe approach? I wish that they had told me sooner, to reduce my eventual embarrassment. At that point in time, I decided to stop playing altogether. At 65, if you have lost the One, it is hard to find again. I entertain myself by watching drumming TH-cam channels. Yours is good, and this one resonated with me. I'll eventually donate the drums to a local volunteer music school. I apologize for the long post. No one was around to vibe me into stopping.
Don't let what happened discourage you. Now that you know you were a bit late on the timing, you can target it in practice with metronome etc.. maybe get together with some local non professional musicians and just jam together in living room/man cave for fun.. not in a pressure performance situation.. Sounds like you have more than enough skill to at least enjoy that. Just my thoughts.
"Live sparring with higher belts" lol! Great analogy. My friend who is a amazing Roma violinist always refers to the whole experience as a battle. The more experienced or capable the player the higher the rank, ie solider or general... It make for awesome and hilarious introductions at gigs. Hopefully your all on the same side....
Hmm... almost never experienced this myself tbh, and I've played in several bands and music ensebles. maybe I was too 'thick' to ever notice or rather I was lucky to play with people who were a pleasure to be around and also good musicians. Maybe in one of the ensembles in Gymnasium ( Senior High School ) the conductor made us know ( in a 'Whiplash' way ) when we weren't up to the point or messed up, but in the end most of us never took it personaly, bcs we knew him pretty well and accepted that he's also but a human and everyone's got one of those days. When I critiqued or had a suggestion/tip I've always tried to be contructive and get on the same line so the in the end the music ( and that's what's import imho ) and overall experience was enriching and doing it worthwhile. Even if you're not happy or angry with the other musician ( for whatever reason ), there's a way to make your opinion clear without being passive aggressive/pissy about it! I mean in the best case you've ruined the session for everyone. In the worst case you may have discouraged an aspiring and talented musician to evolve or even worse; to give up playing alltogether
After nearly 20 years of drumming, I recently had one of my worst "vibe" experiences on a jazz gig. The acoustics were horrible, making it difficult for the players to hear each other, the audience was completely unengaged and talking loudly over the music, and I was called in without enough time for a rehearsal. As a consequence my dynamics were way, way off and I couldn't lock with the bass player. He was noticeably unhappy with my inability to find the pocket, which resulted in completely locking up my playing and "sweat flopping" throughout an entire set of normally easy tunes. I honestly surprised myself with how bad I could sound. Everybody was super polite although I knew I had blown it. I subsequently reached out to the bass player to apologize and get his advice on how to deal with similar situations, to which he responded gracefully. With all that said, the experience was simultaneously horrifying and immensely educational. It's driven me to study and practice systematically throughout the last several weeks in the same way that getting your ass handed to you by an upper belt makes you think you should make it to training more often. I really appreciate this video for reminding me that I'm far from the only person that has experienced something like this. Thanks for your openness to putting some of your drum "failures" out into the world.
I am, by all means, an amateur on drums. Not that I didn't practice, but I didn't put a lot of time in because I had too many hobbies (and still do). But my experience with people who were extremely experienced musicians had always been great. In fact, the hardest time I got was from the manager of a band I tried out for, but not on the instrument I could play (I wanted to play drums, and they needed a bass player... I didn't get the gig, to say the least; still, it was a fun get-together and sleepover). With that said, passive-aggressive is a poor standard to do anything by. Sure, once in a while someone has an off-day or something, and maybe, by some miracle, it works out. However, I've had several people play passive-aggressive with me, and it never works out for either of us, because I'm either unsure of their intentions and try to be polite (which makes them more frustrated), or if I do catch on enough to be sure, I just close down the conversation. I was contemplating giving a guy a $20 discount on speakers I was selling him (because the next day they didn't sound as good as the night before, and I don't like swindling anyone), but he got passive-aggressive as I was doing said contemplating, and I just sold it to him at the original price. Or a guy who drove 2 hours to try and undercut me when I sold a large toolbox. He got passive aggressive, and instead of negotiating for a more fair deal (which the next guy did, and I sold it to him), he starts going on about how he drove 2 hours just for my toolbox. I told him no deal, and wouldn't give it to him unless he paid my sticker price (he lost his ability to negotiate any price). As I said, next guy was reasonable, explained that my price was a bit out of touch (and it was), and then asked for a reasonable price; I sold it to him, even though I could have gotten a bit more for it. I'd probably refuse to work in a part of an industry where something as immature as passive-aggressive behaviour was a norm. I thought we're supposed to be professionals when working in a profession. I can't tell you how many times I would have been fired for being passive-aggressive because someone else did something genuinely stupid. I actually had a coworker yell at me for doing my job, and telling me not to do what the supervisor said. I go into a polite, sarcastic rant (no yelling, no swearing, no name-calling; just me telling him to stop contradicting the boss and let me pause him for less than a minute to move something past him, and how his behaviour is making things worse for both of us... though he was looking flustered and a bit flush when I was done), and the next day I'm out of a job. Passive-aggressive is no proper behaviour for any industry, even if the person deserves it. On a side note, I said something about you not looking very relaxed while playing on one of your older videos. You look in much better form in these recent videos, so maybe the advice I gave was uncalled for. Sorry.
Greaat vid. Also, goddamn even I felt how ashamed/embarrassed you were when you were telling the late story at the start of the vid HAHA. I think being "vibed" is something everyone will encounter in life, even in other situations. The first time I was vibed like that was by my teacher during arts class. I was not used to that AT ALL and I was mad (and I mean MAD) about what he said to me, even if other people won't be as affected by it. Like I said, I wasn't used to it. Although you mention in the end that the whole vibing thing is toxic (Which, it is if it's too much to handle), I feel like experiencing something like that at least once is crucial in life
Last time I got vibed, it was a guy who actually did it nicely, but made it clear that he was leaving the project because my drumming wasn't good enough. He went on to be a session player for a number of well-known Death Metal projects. And I decided to double my practice time. And it paid off. So yeah, I agree. It's a wake-up call that most people will need to hear unless they are naturally driven. And for those who aren't (or think they are but aren't, like I did), it can be a catalyst.
I never knew what vibed meant until I experienced it happened in a friendly jam. I was playing guitar or bass, my friend was playing drums, and this cat was playing piano. My friend was self taught, played heavier music, blast beats, double kick, 8 string sweeping arpeggios, and had a natural sense of conecting emotion in his playing. The cat was just robotic, jazzy, yet he was smart and he studied music so he had a lot to pull from his tool bag. I thought both of them would get along but as soon as we started the cat started vibing out the drummer. I noticed it. It sucked. Like why? This isn't a competition. That isn't how you make friends. Who cares how good you are? Maybe yourself? But yeah I always despised musicians who see themselves better than others, it is just like when jocks are jocking. Don't be so pretentious, learn to love, live a little, it was just a simple attic jam.
Yeah “vibe/vibes” is usually used in a positive context. I’m younger, from the west coast and not an “authentic” jazz musician so idk why contributes to that def difference.
When I was coming up we called people like you a 'Goofball' Im not sure exactly what it means but I gravitated more towards the goofball crowd, always.....and still. Good stuff. Thank you.
What, like a clown? Nate's here for your amusement? No,...its, just, just funny. You know, the way he tells a story. Now, I might be a little fucked up, but everyone's been, "vibed," at sometime, or another. Chances are they are afflicted with the, "Dunning Krueger Effect." In some cases, the douchebag syndrome, which I call the, "shit sandwich syndrome," or the three S's; is that proper grammar? Quite possibly, it's a lack of meilen, or some other congenital condition, which effects the firing, of one's dendrites, or synapses. Whatever it may be our personal afflictions bleed over from one discipline to the next. Business vs. Music, and whether it's a business, or definitively, business... Man. Peace out!
Interesting topic, I think this kind of behaviour happens at all levels of music. I've seen very accomplished musicians do this as well as mediocre ones, it seems that some people just feel entitled to engage in this behaviour for whatever reasons. There was a story Vinnie Colaiuta told of feeling a very icy vibe off a producer at a recording session, the next day was told he was being replaced, so this can happen to anyone. My red line is when people do this on the stage during a performance, I have never seen this approach have positive results, more often than not it just makes thing worse. This kind of behaviour killed Frank Zappa's band during his 1988 tour, he ended up losing $400,000 cancelling dates and vowed never to tour again...………..that was a great band, what a waste!
At a local club my ride cymbal was very ringy as i was using a crash ride and i got vibedso hard, a bit of moon gell during the break saved my ass though
Man it’s kind of a right of passage, but mainly the self vibe. If you don’t feel bad when you make a mistake, it means you aren’t emotionally invested in your playing. And that’s kinda what it’s all about yeah? Caring.
Thank you so much for this cathartic video. I sometimes have to deal with a passive aggressive curmudgeon bassist who is an emotional vampire. But I'm too chicken shit to say anything. Anyway, your story telling is exactly the way I want my solos to come out.
I only have experience in the Metal community and only on a hobbyist level where, since nobody gets paid, the most important factor is having a motivated band. I've been in bands with really capable musicians where mistakes were an "end of the world" level drama and "we are never going to get anywhere if you can't even nail this" and I've been in bands with "good enough" musicians that treated mistakes as a natural part of playing together and had fun isolating difficult parts and playing them over and over until the mistakes were ironed out. Guess what type of band creates songs at an alarmingly fast rate, gets regular gig offers in their local area and has every member stoked about being in said band...
I try and not be too vibey, but to be fair, I try to have a convo w those who I’d normally vibe and they take it way more offensively as I giving them words of encouragement and support. It’s usually bandmates who don’t practice or get too drunk/high to perform at a high (pun not intended) level
I love Jazz and love to learn about it, love to play it but I will continue to make my money with the country, blues, & pop gigs. I’ve been hesitant about stepping more into the jazz scene for the same reason. Yes I am completely in support about preserving the history of the music and yes we should always push one another as musicians to make beautiful fluid music, but not to the point where you shame someone and quickly throw him to the burner. Not all of us have the same experiences and opportunities. From what I’ve seen and heard a lot of jazz guys take it too seriously and to that I say there are other things to life than just jazz. So with that said I’ll keep playing jazz for fun in my bedroom jaja
The musicians around me aren't the most talented, but I'm sure glad they aren't this pretentious! What good will come of treating a drummer like $*** in the middle of a performance? His time isn't going to improve to your liking on the spot.
I’ve had several vibe sessions- bass players can be this most self-righteous pr!cks when it comes to swing. Like dragging a bag with f boulders through the mud. Ironically, I’ve found that the major cats are easier to play with!
I'm pretty happy that nobody has identified any of the people in these stories. I think that means I anonymized them enough. Did you catch the "tunes" tho? I was playing the real tunes from the stories on the drums (with the exception of the jazz singer one, which I don't remember). Can anybody tell what the tune is in the Cleo's Needle story?
The 80/20 Drummer I’m totally bummed that they’ve closed down.
Is it a Monk tune?
ludicovic has
The 80/20 Drummer dude random Q, but what brand is your zip up hoodie? Been looking high and low for one like that for a long time. Thank you in advance
Not monk. Kind of sounds like night in tunisia played straight ahead. Am I even close?
The best jams are when you get into a crazy groove with a bunch of self-taught illiterates who are surprised that they could make something so cool. When you finally stop after 10 minutes straight of flowing in a trance, everyone is all jacked up: "Holy shit! How did we just do that!?" Those moments are so inspirational because they can't be contrived. It's harder to achieve that kind of experience with a bunch of know-it-all nerds, because they've already been there so many times, and their standards are way higher.
I did this on Saturday with my kids (11 & 8) who refuse be taught music but definitely love an unstructured session on parts of the drum kit while i keep time and basic melody on keys, guitar, bass, whatever I have to hand. Music is in us all but we tap into it in our own ways.
We had a vibes player sit in last night. He was killing. What's the problem?
Was his name Roy Ayers? That's one of the coolest cats I know, man!
You mean the xylo-like thing that sounds like so many doorbells?
I thought that destroying the egos and psyches of other musicians was the number one point of jazz.
Hahaha, interesting point
"vibe...encourages emotional infancy and poor communication..." well said. This observation somewhat applies even to self-vibe; its an anxiety feeding head game that messes with your playing.
I had my own Fletcher, when I worked at The Collective in NYC. I was a Bass student there in the early aughts... And was hired on as the facility manager for about two years. The gentleman that was in charge of the flag ship program if you will, who has since passed, and I will say his name as he had a reputation in the community I’m not speaking ill of the dead just truth. His name was Kim Plainfield. Everybody was terrified of him, except for me. I’d come there in my early 30s, already having played professionally for about eight years. Though I liked the knowledge, and due to undiagnosed ADHD, my school experience wasn’t brilliant but that’s a whole other conversation. Part of my responsibility was to make sure that rooms were set up for classes, sessions, and to handle the teaching artists that would come through for master classes. As Mr. Plainfield ran several of the ensembles for the advanced students, I had to work with him fairly regularly making sure that his room was ready to go. This wasn’t the issue. The issue was that he like to bust balls, and he wasn’t used to anybody returning the favor.
As I had a really good relationship with the rest of the faculty, his occasional Barb’s didn’t really bother me all that much. I found it amusing. But I grew up in a family where when somebody bust your balls, you bust back. So Kim would hit me with some bullshit, and I’d give him the eyebrow, and make some dead pan, and return with a mild grin on my face, all in good fun. But he didn’t care for this. And I didn’t care that he didn’t care. This went on for quite some time but came to ahead one night when he was desperate for a bass player.
The pianist on the gig one of the teachers there, whom I’ve always had a mess respect for Bob Quarranta, Whom I had worked with in his Latin jazz ensemble. He was one of those good teachers that really pushed me past my comfort zone and into levels of groove I didn’t even know existed. So he says to Plainfield, “why don’t you ask Boden to grab his bass from the office?”
Plainfield was not pleased but he had no other options. I wasn’t pleased either, cause frankly my bebop chops sucked. I had moved to NYC with the dream of becoming some incredible jazz bassist, only to struggle wrapping my head around harmony, and sight reading. Again all due to an undiagnosed ADHD, which I have since gotten treated meant for and I am back to playing. So I grab my bass and I go in a room and I set up and they put a chart in front of me, it’s a bebop burner man I don’t even remember what it was, 240bpm, 3,000,000 miles an hour 2 feet off the ground you know what I mean? And I can’t get the time right. Bob’s on piano, and we have this amazing student on the drum kit from Italy. But he can’t get it together either because this is a really tough chart. Plainfield comes over and stand next to me with this look of death on his face, and then he starts tapping his pencil on my music stand a hard aggressively violently. And I am trying not to stand up and punch him in the face at this point. Because I am already dealing with enough shame without this asshole riding me, And I’m doing this motherfucker a favor here. It gets to the point where even Bob looks up at Plainfield and says “chill your jets sport.” Not to me, to Plainfield!
I finally start to relax into it a bit. But our star student still can’t quite wrap his head around what’s going on.
What happened next will to the day I die give me the best kind of goosebumps. It was straight out of a goddamn movie.
Plainfield is trying to work with the student, and then tells the kid to get up and he sits behind the drum kit. Flips the sticks around and gives me a look.
“You ready Boden?”
“Do it.”
Plainfield counts off and it feels like it’s twice the speed, and I don’t know what happened man but we were just off and fucking running! It was amazing we hit the weird dead ran through the choruses, and then started trading fours like we had planned it. And we are aggressive we’re going at each other but we’re both smiling because the shit is clicking like a motherfucker! I am so tense, because I’m not at that time a relaxed player, I’m leaning back in the chair so far that I’m almost balancing on the light on the back two legs, we trade fours again come around the head and boom we and then fucking tune like we have been playing together for 30 years.
The room is quiet, Plainfield and I just stare at each other for a second. And he says
“damn Boden! You got a good hands brother! What the hell are you doing working here?”
And that’s the story. He had told me following that he and Bob both if I could learn how to read, they would get me gigs no problem. I had no idea what I was struggling with. Anyway that’s my story, I’ve been vibe many times but, that one was the most intense
Thanks for sharing that story! Glad you got your condition diagnosed and treated.👍🏽
Mark Foster Thank you Mark! Kind of you man. Yes it has been a life changer, in ways that are indescribable
@@JoshuaDb_The_Witness I can only imagine...Thanks,again,your story was inspiring!
I've heard stories about Plainfield.
Thanks for sharing!
@@JoshuaDb_The_Witness hey man tenor sax player here ive been diagnosed with adhd since i was a kid and have been off meds since about 2018 now and have been shedding my chops heavily just trying to break through and really get out there sometimes i can tell the adhd can mess up the understanding of advanced concepts and retaining information in jazz and i was thinking if going back on them for that reason and a few others. do you think overall it has improved your musicianship and your ability to memorize and retain information better ?
It makes a big difference, especially in my generation. I had a drum instructor senior year of high school who I credit to this day as one of the biggest reasons I ended up not pursuing music into college. It was the first time in my life that I felt like I wasn't having fun playing music. And he wasn't even yelling at me! The elitism, the pretentiousness - at the time I thought, "if this is how it's going to be, then fuck it I don't want to do music anymore". Looking back on it now, I probably would have been fine seeing how people like that instructor are the minority, but sometimes I feel like teachers/experienced musicians don't quite realize the effect their attitude can have on the younger generation of musicians.
You’re the only drum related channel I actively follow. Top tier stuff 👌🏻
My observation has been that jazz musicians are mostly horrible to each other.
replace "jazz" with "every breed of" and you right
I've been in multiple jazz bands and everyone was kind to each other, so I guess every band is different
Those who survive it though are tremendous. His story number 4, about the bass player assholishly making it clear that he wasn't doing a good enough job of keeping time, an embarrassing thing to do to a drummer at a gig. That straightened his timing issues out! It's like tough love, maybe without the love.
It’s a way more social genre, everyone plays with everyone including the best “cats”. It’s common for high level legends to get stuck playing with younger inexperienced up-n-comers. Lots of times the heavies are supportive cause they themselves had gotten lucky and been mentored along the way. Other times the less experienced guys really do make the music bad and no ones got time for that
That wasn't my experience.
When I got serious about being a musician, and I was completely self-taught for the first few years of my career, the guys that took me under their wings we're all jazz guys. I mean I was the least experienced guy, and the bass player in a 10 piece funk band, with cats that have 15 to 20 years on me, all jazz backgrounds. They took me on because I had the feel, Even though I didn't even know where the notes were on the neck of the bass at first. But the same Katz helped me out, or my friends and honestly my first musical family. Now granted this was in Richmond Virginia, not the cultural epicenter that New York City is. I have to wonder, if the "jazz-ittude" Is actually brought by the less experience players. Because whenever I have spent time with the real deal cats, I worked at the Collective part of my job was helping out anybody that came through to do master classes. I'm not gonna sit here and name drop, but I got to work hand-in-hand with some of the best jazz musicians of that time. And they were all lovely… Well, Steve Smith was a little bit challenging when I first met him but he warmed up. But, he was a rockstar for a long time before he actually became a "jazz musician "so maybe that doesn't count so much LOL
Getting vibed at a jazz gig is really just failing a vibe check
This is really great and sadly relatable. I quit playing jazz when I moved to Seattle because I got so sick of the bullshit. I was making a great living doing sessions in other styles so I dropped out. Now when I do anything I hire my own guys and run the project myself. I love jazz, love playing it, but hate, hate, hate, jazz snob fuckheads.
And people think 'dropping out and just playing music' is the easy way out...
Entertaining video.
I am yet to find a situation where being passive aggressive is helpful in music. I believe we should always make the best of a musical situation even if a player is not up to snuff. If someone really sucks I will politely tell them I am having trouble playing with them and move on, but NEVER in an unfriendly way. There's all sorts of reasons why people don't meet the standard - that's ok - life can be difficult enough without some smartarse being a prick because you didn't nail the music.
Could just be having an off night.
Just self-vibed an audition. Thank you for sharing this. Needed this at this time!
To make things a tad political, its funny how musicians (generally very liberal) want inclusiveness and socialist policies on a political level but, are the first (in music circles) to exclude, berate and not share the stage with lesser musicians because they are not up to their own subjective standard. Their philosophy of society is at direct odds with their own direct social network which is a 'harsh' meritocracy or survival of the fittest philosophy. Not all the time of course, some people are nice, and are happy to give a hand up. Its partly agreeableness vs disagreeableness or dutch-ness as referred to in the video but with a touch of nihilism. p.s Nate we want some live gig footage!
This is a great comment.
Sooooo true dude lol. I noticed the same thing growing up. It was a huge eye opener. They just want other people to give them shit. And they smoke all of your pot!
Real talk. I have a friend who's almost exactly like that. Very liberal and outspoken. But she goes to art school and she definitely puts herself on a pedistool towards people who don't know anything about art, or who are just beginners. What you describe is very real and people act self righteous in politics but don't realize that their actions don't align with their beliefs.
it's not socialism's fault you can't play, dude
For jazz cats and gospel musicians , it’s much easier to have a political stance, than to walk in congruence . Some guys idolize the greats but have no friends that grew up like (or near) the people they admire. It’s the same way wherever there’s people and money. People want control and as much money as possible .
In some way some jazz musicians seems to be like "oh man they was so bad too me when I was a young player trying to figure out how to be great on a session and now I'm good enough to have revenge for all my hurt feelings and I'm beeing mad at every one who sucks like me when I'm on a session again so we can never break this circle of uncomfort vibes"
You sound like my bostonian reenactment
@@8020drummer pls don't get me too serious. It really wasn't about hate just a stereotyping which sounded funny for me. And your videos are great and helped me a lot! greetz
Next time call ahead and say your running late, then when you show up say “I called ahead that’s more than most m-fr’s would’a done.” It works! I saw “beep beep” do this back in the 90’s, made a huge impact on me
Totally agree with this. We all make mistakes and shit happens even when we don't. Respecting others time and being accountable goes a long way in dealing with the situation.
"Vibe" has the same connotation in metal, especially extreme metal, but we usually don't have to pull the vibe card out nearly as much as it seems to happen in jazz. Or rather, we don't FEEL the need to pull it out. I have plenty of times, because I don't tolerate fools, and professionalism is paramount, but there are times when education (nurturing, if you will) is more important than attitude.
Dude, I got vibed by Dianne Schuur, live on stage on a one off concert I got the call for. A drummer friend of mine who came to the concert was like, "oh, I just sunk down in my seat. You could feel the ice on the walls." The deal was, she called a drum solo, which we never rehearsed. Cool. So I do some stuff, built it up and then cooled out. She was like, "you gotta give me more than that!" So, I went back in and smiled and continued a solo. You could tell. The unspoken was thick man. In other words, I did the professional thing. Unlike her. Ed Shaunessy got vibed live by Ray Charles about "rushing". Ed never forgot that shit and talked about it in print and in person to me while at dinner. Anyway, I did not go back into the dressing room to suck up after the gig. B.S. I packed up, got my $200.00 and left.
Your nicer than me. Someone who feels that important about their stature, should pay more than $200/man! 👊
I heard Ray Charles had a reputation for vibing drummers on slow tempos especially? I seem to remember an interview with one of his horn players saying he felt sorry for any drummer playing with Ray Charles; it was the gig you didn't want as a drummer.
@@Squirrelconga well, this was 1992 and my guess is the contact was taking his cut. Good experience even if negative.
"Play simply and listen." Priceless advice.
Dude I just love your channel, super honest stuff. The cuts to other versions of you talking to you are awesome, really enjoy the introspection and the self-aware nature.
Nate you allow us the opportunity to know your thoughts and feelings. Thank you for being honest and your creativity extends beyond the kit.
Honesty + Respect. If you respect someone, you will be honest with them about their performance. If you are honest with someone who wants to become better at their trade, they will recognize that honesty and respect you for it. "Vibe" is an awkward mixture of knee-jerk emotional aggression towards awkward logistic and musical situations, but when you can engage those situations with tact, honesty, and respect, the music will, in the end, be exalted.
Vibing people, in my experience, is found in basically every artform in the world. One can make a fairly convincing argument that the "vibe gauntlet" through which every artist seemingly must pass ultimately produces better art. But conversely one has to wonder how many people with more sensitive personalities have been discouraged from sharing their gifts with society due to just one negatively formative "vibing" experience from someone who carelessly or callously called them out in public. I don't know that it ever stops either - even if you reach the highest levels of career success in your field. It does seem especially common in music - and specifically jazz music - because that's literally what the entire art form is composed of: vibrations. Your whole job is to create the right vibe for people and that job is always hanging in the balance of being in or out of time with your bandmates. So it's little wonder that some people get so upset about errors. Vibers also often fail to realize how few fucks people in the audience give about it as long as you can creatively recover from a missed note or beat and not entirely trainwreck the song.
I'll never forget when a person whom I considered more of a music scene buddy than a musical colleague called me "amateur" in front of the whole band onstage. It was completely unnecessary and only made the gig go worse. As years went on and social media started to become more prevalent I noticed how much he would post about how other people in the industry always excluded him and his crew from gigs and that they could never get "mainstream" credibility, even after literally doing an opening tour for the Black Eyed Peas. I started to realize that often this urge to publicly vibe or criticize someone often comes from some form of internal insecurity. Perhaps your error reminds someone else of some major flub they had earlier in their careers that got similarly vibed on and their own emotional trauma from that moment resurfaces in an instant, only to be passed onto to you, who will likely remember it the rest of your life because the human mind invariably seems to reinforce negative experiences more than positive ones.
All this is to say that, at this point, it's probably better to just be kind to people when they fuck up because you never know how your one negative comment will affect someone. It happens in other arenas too. Hell, I think half the reason we've got Trump as president now is because Obama publicly eviscerated him in front of an entire room of famous people during the 2011 correspondents dinner. I laughed my ass off at the time but I don't find it so funny these days. Vibes matter!
I wonder how many people vibe'd Van Gogh? Personally I have thought if someone is going to vibe me...they better be bloody good and make no mistakes because the ones that have, I've had the pleasure of letting them clearly know they have just fucked up.
@@npg68 Vibe not lest ye be vibed in kind
Meh, too much bullshit. Life is short. Don't have time to be overthinking if I'm getting vibed. I just move on. Fuk em. Obviously, if you have skin in the game, it's not that easy.
This is probably one of my favorite videos you’ve made - it’s super therapeutic to hear someone else’s vibing experiences...I’m not alone! Also, I love the references to Jiu-Jitsu. Studying BJJ has really helped me immensely as a drummer.
Thanks for your good and often helpful attempts at Realism/transparency. (..and i always appreciate the tone of your kit.)
Being nice is professional and will 100% gain you more respect and love from your peers
I'm at music school. We definitely still use the term vibe.
this jazz "community" looks way too toxic for me.
Oh boy I can't wait for the session tomorrow!
*Watches this video*
Mom pick me up I'm scared
Good, we make it look that way on purpose so we don’t have to deal with big babies like you
Its not everyone most people are fine
@@thecourierNCR nothing is more childish than this passive agressive attitude, this "vibe" thing. When you are like this, you're not the tough guy, you're the "snowflake"
they want to protect the integrity of their dying art form 🤷♀️
"What's the difference between Bill Bruford and Steve Gadd? One of them shows up on time."
Yup. I was the asshole.
Read the story in Bill Bruford's autobiography of how he and Tony Levin (bass) was hired for a session by Al DiMeola and DiMeola showed up incredibly late (as in many hours late). It's pretty savage.
@@aliensporebomb And Tony's response was epically professional. One take only.
These kinds of stories are nice to hear, and I don't hear this from a lot of the other channels I follow considering that your drum channel and others are different in approach. But I'd say for this video in particular I'd want others to take away that vibing isn't you helping other musicians out. It's you just being an asshole and not communicating well. We all make mistakes whether it's being late or having sloppy time, we're human and we can work that stuff out. I'd hope sooner rather than later we start treating others with more dignity because we all have been there, and we start kicking vibing out. Giving someone the cold shoulder is not helpful and won't solve any issues. Just my thoughts though, I appreciate this.
Vibing is necessary to ensure the music is played to the highest form. Most of our culture is satisfied with a watered down version of things, and that, I don’t vibe with.
Work for it. Sacrifice for it. Channel your {hurt} feelings thru the music and really really a story
@@jambajoby32 really, i dont think it helps people play at the highest level, especially at a gig... who cares if you mess up really, as long as you know you did it, you know what to work on, being pissy because someone slipped doesnt help anyone
fattyjaybird what I’m trying to say is, if you don’t spend the time to excel and work out ideas on your own, why should you dump unmanaged, uncared nonsense onto others and why should audiences come out to listen if you don’t take the time to invest in your own playing?
@@jambajoby32 agreed...
I'm Dutch and I agree.
(Not about to headbutt anyone though)
Hee Yvo man, jij ook hier! :D
Ha die Kees :D Fancy meeting you here :D
Nate, I so get where you're coming from! I'm a new drummer, so I recognise those feelings well! But hey, everyone starts somewhere, so thank you so much for showing us that it's all part of the learning curve and not to worry about taking it on board. Thank you my friend, see you again very soon, Ciao!
6:28 the frustrated bassist lol
This is a good video and a good topic to put out there. Getting vibed, and self vibing will mess with your confidence and playing ability across all genres and ability levels.
I was born in '57 at some hospital in Burbank, California, (then grew up there) Which is is approx. 8 miles north of Hollywood. At the time, Hollywood was becoming the music capital of the U.S.A (if not the entire planet). So in the mid 60's (when I was around 8) we had Hippies. Lots of Hippies. They were everywhere. Although I was too young to be a Hippy, I experienced some cultural drift. The word Vibe, (being short for vibration) was a very important word in the vernacular of not only Hippies, but a smaller % of non Hippies as well. It was used much in music, but it was never exclusive to music!! If someone was being described as mean spirited, nasty, angry, verbally distasteful or resentfully behaved, a person referring to that target someone would say "That person gave me a really bad vibe". Inversely, if someone was nice, accommodating, uplifting, good humored etc... that person would be described as giving off a "good vibe". Also used (but not quite as commonly) was the word 'aura'. That word could sometimes be employed as the transport mechanism for the type of 'Vibe' the source subject was telegraphing to the destination subject. If used with context sensitivity the way you have associated it with Jazz then it was a negative thing to get the vibe. If not then, the word by itself would have an empty distinction. In order for it to be useful in a sentence, it would need to be prefaced with 'good' or 'bad'. The Beach Boys gave proper application to the word in their popular 60's hit song 'Good Vibrations', from the lyric "She is giving me good vibrations". Ok now, I like your videos and I like your channel. Please honor my take on this subject as serious journalism, and not malarkey.
The mic stand bass made me bust out laughing 😂
I would hang out with you if I lived in the same city. You are unique and brave. Please, don’t get tired of doing this! :)
*Your vibe has been checked*
As someone who graduated from music school in 2018, I can attest that younger jazz musicians DO toss “vibe” “vibing” “vibey” around, if only in an ironic tone lol
Awesome Man. I have felt your pain numerous times during my life.
When I was starting out in the early 70s it was much harder than today to find the level of instruction that I have now for free, back then you had to pay high fees and travel long distances to find this kind of instructors in a small town like I grew up in.
I love this video. So I have a vibed story. Took a gig with a band years ago. “Acme trucking company”. Three piece Jazz, motown gig.
I was tinkering in jazz at the time. The bass player was a total “ time controller “. He vibed me the entire gig. Trying pull me back, push me forward. Staring the entire gig. It was a horrible experience and I was tense and uncomfortable the entire gig which we all know makes us play even worse. Needless to say it was a hard lesson for me and in the end it did make me work harder to play better. But man was it no fun!
I've been there too. It's a harsh lesson that you don't forget soon. It does make you work harder. However, when you're sitting in on a gig, it's a totally different situation than a rehearsal. If I find I'm not locking with the bassist I will suggest listening to each other more. Though that doesn't always work either. Live is trial by fire, but playing in a cold sweat isn't good for anybody.
When you paddle out at break that is not your local spot and you instantly get the death stare. You feel it more than see it. That's what we called getting 'Vibed". I feel you brah!
Your exposé of narcissistic society in music circles, applies to many social groups these days, and this behavior is a very common occurrence everywhere. Thanks for speaking out!
I've heard skaters use "vibed" in that negative way. Like you'll get vibed by the locals at a spot if you seem like a poser or a kook. Or if you're just... not local. Same thing can happen at skate shops too.
the Harvard Yard survival of the vibest
8:27 Nice IKEA prints in the background... I have them hanging in my basement as well.
how the heck am i supposed to retain what you say in the first bit when your intro song is mind meltingly laid back
I did a couple years of jazz band in college in the late 90s. The director was a grizzled old saxophone player who was like a cross between Fletcher and Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino. I loved Whiplash because it brought me back to those days. It was a little scary but I learned a lot and ended up impressing the old man.
I can't remember the last time i was offered a gig with more than a few days to prep. You gotta be able to learn fast!
You left it on a cliffhanger to finish with yeah we played a little longer and bonded lmao
Your rim click to toms transformation is flawless
Back in 2012 I was filling in for a local hard rock band.
It was a Sunday, my one day off from my day job. This husband and wife duo ask me to come over and help them audition a new vocalist. He was a very animated, well known front man from another local band.
I agree...
The guy shows up and we start the audition process.
Can't hear him... So we turn him up. He stops singing into the mic.
I stop the song.
Dude, did you learn any of the songs? I asked.
He replies: well, uh, yeah, I had them, but can't remember them (lyrics) right now.
To which I replied - Ok, no problem. Let's call it a day, and call us when you have the songs down.
Then he left.
I asked the band leaders never to call me for that again, unless they plan on paying me hourly. I kept my cool, but I was fucking livid. A waste of a beautiful sunday..
The dude never called back.
In 2013 their relationship ended, and I had a very good run with the band with a new bassist and vocalist. It was fun, but I wish I had played better, and wish our recordings weren't "doctored" up by the local blowhard, piece of shit "producer/engineer" that's apparently best friends with every celebrity that ever existed... Bit, in my defense, I had just bought a car wash business in the worst winter our state would have in 100 years.. Possibly being in the band saved my life..
Man, especially at drummers. The worse Vibe is when someone gives you the "..." lol.
as a guy at Jazz School, can safely say that "Vibe" was something we all quickly figured out the meaning of
A quick personal story. Back in 2014 played in a Mowtown band. The leader kept gaslighting me. It was really hard on my sprit and mentally effected me. So I left the band. The band eventually broke up due to internal infighting. Fast forwards 2019. Playing gigs with a another band. They love the way I approach the music and treat me like a drum hero. Band chemestry and sure can make or break the situation. There are players that can be a handful to deal with, others a joy to play with. Anyways I enjoy your channel as the #1 of all drum channels.
This is really interesting from a social commentary point of view. Well thought out/written (seeing as how you're a jazz guy, maybe you just have a lead sheet for the script and just improvise the rest). Really enjoyed it, thanks very much.
The "Dutch" Approach! Love that...spot on.
Fuck, stomping bass players make me cringe just thinking back to when 16 year old me got vibed every time he played lol
None of it would've happened if you could play reggae and count out loud the smallest subdivisions in whatever phrases you're playing while you practice
I'll troll you until you do both of these things:
- Seriously apply Dave di Censo's method for 3 months
- Seriously study roots reggae (Carlton Barrett etc) for 3 months
Then I'll disappear as I arrived, and won't even charge you a dollar
I'm starting to respect this
All I know is blast beat
I was in a band with constant 'vibing'. Made me practise more! Eventually came to a place where the vibing lessened.
I played garage band rock in my yout [sic], then got an engineering degree and had a career at that. As I neared retirement, I dusted off my '64 Slingerlands and began to practice, even taking lessons again. After I thought I was good enough, I cautiously approached a jam night at a blues club, where you sign up and they mix and match players for short sets. Yes, East Tennessee has a blues club. I went periodically for a few months and got acquainted with the house drummer, who dropped subtle hints that I missed, about how to not play too loud, and being ahead or behind the beat. I honestly thought I was holding my own, but NO ONE EVER SPOKE TO ME AFTERWARDS (a clue for some people, but for me? Nooooo. I kept coming back) Finally, after a few months of this, the house bass player said to me "You know you're late on everything, don't you?" A-HAH! Now it all makes sense. I was the poop in the punchbowl, and they were putting off telling me. Maybe the un-vibe approach? I wish that they had told me sooner, to reduce my eventual embarrassment. At that point in time, I decided to stop playing altogether. At 65, if you have lost the One, it is hard to find again. I entertain myself by watching drumming TH-cam channels. Yours is good, and this one resonated with me. I'll eventually donate the drums to a local volunteer music school. I apologize for the long post. No one was around to vibe me into stopping.
Don't let what happened discourage you. Now that you know you were a bit late on the timing, you can target it in practice with metronome etc.. maybe get together with some local non professional musicians and just jam together in living room/man cave for fun.. not in a pressure performance situation.. Sounds like you have more than enough skill to at least enjoy that. Just my thoughts.
Haha you're so right, when you "want them to yell at you" and they don't, it's kinda like well, I guess the bar just got a whole lot lower.
"Live sparring with higher belts" lol! Great analogy. My friend who is a amazing Roma violinist always refers to the whole experience as a battle. The more experienced or capable the player the higher the rank, ie solider or general... It make for awesome and hilarious introductions at gigs. Hopefully your all on the same side....
I been subscribed for awhile as yours is my all time favorite of all drum education due to superior, interesting and artistic content.
Musicians being late? Shocking... Rob Trujillo went to the Metallica-audition totally hungover.
Hmm... almost never experienced this myself tbh, and I've played in several bands and music ensebles. maybe I was too 'thick' to ever notice or rather I was lucky to play with people who were a pleasure to be around and also good musicians.
Maybe in one of the ensembles in Gymnasium ( Senior High School ) the conductor made us know ( in a 'Whiplash' way ) when we weren't up to the point or messed up, but in the end most of us never took it personaly, bcs we knew him pretty well and accepted that he's also but a human and everyone's got one of those days.
When I critiqued or had a suggestion/tip I've always tried to be contructive and get on the same line so the in the end the music ( and that's what's import imho ) and overall experience was enriching and doing it worthwhile. Even if you're not happy or angry with the other musician ( for whatever reason ), there's a way to make your opinion clear without being passive aggressive/pissy about it!
I mean in the best case you've ruined the session for everyone. In the worst case you may have discouraged an aspiring and talented musician to evolve or even worse; to give up playing alltogether
Great video Nate. You are the steven pinker of instructional, motivational, practical you tube drumming channels. Drumming. Youdaman.
Great video, 80/20, I really dig your natural character! Good stuff!
After nearly 20 years of drumming, I recently had one of my worst "vibe" experiences on a jazz gig. The acoustics were horrible, making it difficult for the players to hear each other, the audience was completely unengaged and talking loudly over the music, and I was called in without enough time for a rehearsal. As a consequence my dynamics were way, way off and I couldn't lock with the bass player. He was noticeably unhappy with my inability to find the pocket, which resulted in completely locking up my playing and "sweat flopping" throughout an entire set of normally easy tunes. I honestly surprised myself with how bad I could sound. Everybody was super polite although I knew I had blown it. I subsequently reached out to the bass player to apologize and get his advice on how to deal with similar situations, to which he responded gracefully. With all that said, the experience was simultaneously horrifying and immensely educational. It's driven me to study and practice systematically throughout the last several weeks in the same way that getting your ass handed to you by an upper belt makes you think you should make it to training more often. I really appreciate this video for reminding me that I'm far from the only person that has experienced something like this. Thanks for your openness to putting some of your drum "failures" out into the world.
I am, by all means, an amateur on drums. Not that I didn't practice, but I didn't put a lot of time in because I had too many hobbies (and still do). But my experience with people who were extremely experienced musicians had always been great. In fact, the hardest time I got was from the manager of a band I tried out for, but not on the instrument I could play (I wanted to play drums, and they needed a bass player... I didn't get the gig, to say the least; still, it was a fun get-together and sleepover). With that said, passive-aggressive is a poor standard to do anything by. Sure, once in a while someone has an off-day or something, and maybe, by some miracle, it works out. However, I've had several people play passive-aggressive with me, and it never works out for either of us, because I'm either unsure of their intentions and try to be polite (which makes them more frustrated), or if I do catch on enough to be sure, I just close down the conversation.
I was contemplating giving a guy a $20 discount on speakers I was selling him (because the next day they didn't sound as good as the night before, and I don't like swindling anyone), but he got passive-aggressive as I was doing said contemplating, and I just sold it to him at the original price.
Or a guy who drove 2 hours to try and undercut me when I sold a large toolbox. He got passive aggressive, and instead of negotiating for a more fair deal (which the next guy did, and I sold it to him), he starts going on about how he drove 2 hours just for my toolbox. I told him no deal, and wouldn't give it to him unless he paid my sticker price (he lost his ability to negotiate any price). As I said, next guy was reasonable, explained that my price was a bit out of touch (and it was), and then asked for a reasonable price; I sold it to him, even though I could have gotten a bit more for it.
I'd probably refuse to work in a part of an industry where something as immature as passive-aggressive behaviour was a norm. I thought we're supposed to be professionals when working in a profession. I can't tell you how many times I would have been fired for being passive-aggressive because someone else did something genuinely stupid. I actually had a coworker yell at me for doing my job, and telling me not to do what the supervisor said. I go into a polite, sarcastic rant (no yelling, no swearing, no name-calling; just me telling him to stop contradicting the boss and let me pause him for less than a minute to move something past him, and how his behaviour is making things worse for both of us... though he was looking flustered and a bit flush when I was done), and the next day I'm out of a job. Passive-aggressive is no proper behaviour for any industry, even if the person deserves it.
On a side note, I said something about you not looking very relaxed while playing on one of your older videos. You look in much better form in these recent videos, so maybe the advice I gave was uncalled for. Sorry.
Greaat vid. Also, goddamn even I felt how ashamed/embarrassed you were when you were telling the late story at the start of the vid HAHA. I think being "vibed" is something everyone will encounter in life, even in other situations. The first time I was vibed like that was by my teacher during arts class. I was not used to that AT ALL and I was mad (and I mean MAD) about what he said to me, even if other people won't be as affected by it. Like I said, I wasn't used to it. Although you mention in the end that the whole vibing thing is toxic (Which, it is if it's too much to handle), I feel like experiencing something like that at least once is crucial in life
Last time I got vibed, it was a guy who actually did it nicely, but made it clear that he was leaving the project because my drumming wasn't good enough. He went on to be a session player for a number of well-known Death Metal projects. And I decided to double my practice time. And it paid off. So yeah, I agree. It's a wake-up call that most people will need to hear unless they are naturally driven. And for those who aren't (or think they are but aren't, like I did), it can be a catalyst.
I never knew what vibed meant until I experienced it happened in a friendly jam. I was playing guitar or bass, my friend was playing drums, and this cat was playing piano. My friend was self taught, played heavier music, blast beats, double kick, 8 string sweeping arpeggios, and had a natural sense of conecting emotion in his playing. The cat was just robotic, jazzy, yet he was smart and he studied music so he had a lot to pull from his tool bag. I thought both of them would get along but as soon as we started the cat started vibing out the drummer. I noticed it. It sucked. Like why? This isn't a competition. That isn't how you make friends. Who cares how good you are? Maybe yourself? But yeah I always despised musicians who see themselves better than others, it is just like when jocks are jocking. Don't be so pretentious, learn to love, live a little, it was just a simple attic jam.
Yeah “vibe/vibes” is usually used in a positive context. I’m younger, from the west coast and not an “authentic” jazz musician so idk why contributes to that def difference.
When I was coming up we called people like you a 'Goofball' Im not sure exactly what it means but I gravitated more towards the goofball crowd, always.....and still. Good stuff. Thank you.
Hmm, back in my day if the musicians showed but AT ALL you were happy LOL
Top notch as always nate, one of your best.
What a great video. I think you are spot on.
I was looking down at my smartphone waiting for the train at my platform when I opened this video.... Creepy
Dude, you’re stories are funny and you deliver them with a straight face. 😁👍🏼
What, like a clown? Nate's here for your amusement? No,...its, just, just funny. You know, the way he tells a story. Now, I might be a little fucked up, but everyone's been, "vibed," at sometime, or another. Chances are they are afflicted with the, "Dunning Krueger Effect." In some cases, the douchebag syndrome, which I call the, "shit sandwich syndrome," or the three S's; is that proper grammar? Quite possibly, it's a lack of meilen, or some other congenital condition, which effects the firing, of one's dendrites, or synapses. Whatever it may be our personal afflictions bleed over from one discipline to the next. Business vs. Music, and whether it's a business, or definitively, business... Man. Peace out!
Interesting topic, I think this kind of behaviour happens at all levels of music. I've seen very accomplished musicians do this as well as mediocre ones, it seems that some people just feel entitled to engage in this behaviour for whatever reasons. There was a story Vinnie Colaiuta told of feeling a very icy vibe off a producer at a recording session, the next day was told he was being replaced, so this can happen to anyone. My red line is when people do this on the stage during a performance, I have never seen this approach have positive results, more often than not it just makes thing worse. This kind of behaviour killed Frank Zappa's band during his 1988 tour, he ended up losing $400,000 cancelling dates and vowed never to tour again...………..that was a great band, what a waste!
Of course learning stuff quick is a useful skill!
Video idea?
Is rock (music) drumming “easy”?
80 percent feeling 20 percent skill 100 percent quality kick-ass fills
At a local club my ride cymbal was very ringy as i was using a crash ride and i got vibedso hard, a bit of moon gell during the break saved my ass though
Man it’s kind of a right of passage, but mainly the self vibe. If you don’t feel bad when you make a mistake, it means you aren’t emotionally invested in your playing. And that’s kinda what it’s all about yeah? Caring.
Dug this video. I'm not in this league or in this genre, but the stories and their lessons resonate. Thanks!
Great video and enjoyed the goofing at the end!😁
My high school jazz bandleader was such a dick, he was honestly terrifying but gosh i learned my chords.
Thank you so much for this cathartic video. I sometimes have to deal with a passive aggressive curmudgeon bassist who is an emotional vampire. But I'm too chicken shit to say anything. Anyway, your story telling is exactly the way I want my solos to come out.
*ensemble
I only have experience in the Metal community and only on a hobbyist level where, since nobody gets paid, the most important factor is having a motivated band. I've been in bands with really capable musicians where mistakes were an "end of the world" level drama and "we are never going to get anywhere if you can't even nail this" and I've been in bands with "good enough" musicians that treated mistakes as a natural part of playing together and had fun isolating difficult parts and playing them over and over until the mistakes were ironed out. Guess what type of band creates songs at an alarmingly fast rate, gets regular gig offers in their local area and has every member stoked about being in said band...
The Bro in this video is way too relatable. Scale it back man, my flatmates are sleeping, I can't be laughing this loud.
I try and not be too vibey, but to be fair, I try to have a convo w those who I’d normally vibe and they take it way more offensively as I giving them words of encouragement and support.
It’s usually bandmates who don’t practice or get too drunk/high to perform at a high (pun not intended) level
I’m a guitar teacher...not a drummer...and I LOVE your channel!!!
I love Jazz and love to learn about it, love to play it but I will continue to make my money with the country, blues, & pop gigs. I’ve been hesitant about stepping more into the jazz scene for the same reason. Yes I am completely in support about preserving the history of the music and yes we should always push one another as musicians to make beautiful fluid music, but not to the point where you shame someone and quickly throw him to the burner. Not all of us have the same experiences and opportunities.
From what I’ve seen and heard a lot of jazz guys take it too seriously and to that I say there are other things to life than just jazz.
So with that said I’ll keep playing jazz for fun in my bedroom jaja
I played billies bounce in the wrong key at a session
This is probably why a lot of people just give up playing with other people and just do their own thing on a computer in their basement
The musicians around me aren't the most talented, but I'm sure glad they aren't this pretentious! What good will come of treating a drummer like $*** in the middle of a performance? His time isn't going to improve to your liking on the spot.
I’ve had several vibe sessions- bass players can be this most self-righteous pr!cks when it comes to swing. Like dragging a bag with f boulders through the mud.
Ironically, I’ve found that the major cats are easier to play with!