100%.... Whod wanna look like phil or kai....what girl wants to date a dude who has a bigger gut then them pregnant imagine those baby photoshots😂😂😂😂 "So whose giving birth"?
I gotta say, it takes a lot of balls to make a video that disagrees with the general consensus, especially as a youtuber. You had a lot to lose by making this video, and I gotta respect you sticking to your guns man. As for the analysis, I felt you were just about spot on. I'd give a slight edge to Kai, but just because how bad Phil's front lat spread was that year. Kai gained more ground with that pose than Phil did with his most muscular...slightly.
Thanks yeah the one thing I won't do is kiss ass and play favourites. I try to tell it like I see it. You'll notice even though I say Phil won I still criticize him for a lot of things because nobody's perfect. As for balls... I have barely any views or subscribers lol, the channel's a month old I don't have much to lose by being honest :P Thanks for the feedback!
@@Tomn8er Hey Tom still remember this comment? Crazy how time flies huh? I saw this comment when it was only a few days old 😂😂 now it's been over 5 freaking years! Now over 70k followers later here we are. P.s. I still think Kai should've taken this. Despite that it certainly wasn't a robbery. Phil winning wasn't too hard to believe. Hope you're doing well my friend.
I feel like if the 2014 Olympia would happen in the 70's Rhoden would mop the floor with the other two. It's crazy how someone can tell you this is beautiful and this is ugly and you have to go by it because " this are the rules " that we judge by. Amazing aesthetics Shawn, it's statuesque 💪💪💪💪
Nah, it'd be the same. Arnold won for the same reason Ronnie did. Bigger than those who were more conditioned and more conditioned than those who were bigger. If Ronnie went to the 70's you'd see him winning.
Gotta disagree here Tom. Phil's midsection makes him 3rd at best in the front double, and the abs and thigh. Just can't win with that midsection. Kai has lost his share of events to his midsection, Phil should've lost this one.
@@mixedpleasure4324 Kai - traps, forearms. Phil - outsized (objectively Phil is small by olympia contender standards), structure famously narrow, arms too large for his chest, washed out abs with a bloated midsection at this show, narrow in the rear shots with traps taking up half his rear lat spread. Abs and thigh (esp), front lat spread, front double are all very poor for this level - thats 3 of the 8 poses. I struggle to see how Phil has fewer weaknesses at this show if we are being objective
Yes, it is because long bicep head and brachialis fights over your arm flexion, both do the same thing on the elbow joint, so you will have either one or another,very rarely people.will.haveboth
I think the reason you are confused about Kai's rear lat spread is that he has so much fullness in his low lats that there is no taper. It's because he has so much lat thickness that they just don't taper down the way the other two guys do. In my opinion he has so much muscle in his back that his rear lat spread doesn't look like what people have come to think it should - we just can't comprehend the freakishness!
Kai was previously told by the judges that he didn't win because his traps were too small and lack of detail in the rear lat spread. He then changed his most muscular and rear lat spread accordingly. After the show one of the head judges said Kais traps overpowered his physique, which is hilarious. It's no wonder he quit after this one as he was able to beat Phil pre olympia (yet Phil won here with a perfect score with one of the worst showings of his career). As fair as the analysis tries to be here I don't think still photos do justice to the difference between Phil huffing and puffing with a big washed out belly on a narrow frame compared to Kais masterful display (of course Phil is standing ahead of Kai in most shots too, less so that 2012, but that gets forgotten in still photos too, so instead of Kai looking 20lb bigger he looks 10)
I was in the 4th row at the Orleans. When you’re that close, it’s not even a contest. Phil is far, far better than Kai. Seeing Phil in person is quite amazing. 2013 was his best year for me. I’ve been going since 2006 and I’ve never seen a bodybuilder as impressive as Heath.
Phil was "The Gut" rather than the gift in this show. This was Kai's show. 2nd place should have been Rhoden. Phil's conditioning was off, his gut was distended, and he didn't bring that 3-D look that he's normally known for.
I think it wasn't for lack of muscle. It came down to genetics. Kai came up against someone who had more pleasing to the eye. Kai was amazing, but at this level, there isn't a way to get beyond genetics.
Phil doesn't genetically have the feathers in his lats, cross straited quads, has a narrow structure with over powering arms relative to his chest and inner thighs that dwarf his quads (of course he's significantly smaller too). All of that is forgiven on Phils side. Phil had conditioning most years that Kai didn't bring without sacrificing fullness - Phil could bring both, and conditioning was massively emphasised when Phil had the crown, and size no longer mattered unlike in historical judging. It's hard to call Phil more pleasing to the eye at this particular show given the gut on a narrow frame, the unsightly neck - he looks pretty ugly in all the front poses, and from the side he's less impressive than usual and certainly not pleasing to the eye. From the back he looks conditioned but narrow, with his traps taking up half his back in the rear lat spread
Lee Priest had thick forearms but I think it's mostly the meaty underside if that makes sense. Phil also has the meaty underside, maybe not quite as big, but his brachioradialis on the 'top' of the forearm which ties in to the outside of the bicep is probably the best there has ever been
I honestly don't like your analysis. *Kai* I'd say Kai's front double bicep is the best front double bicep of all time...reasons: the name indicates that this is a frond double biceps...his biceps from the front are so peaky, reminds me of the golden era. Also how one arm is slightly higher than the other..it's something else, not as clear as an alternative biceps pose as Victor Martinez used to do, but still I'd put him in top of all time for this pose, it's aesthetic and freaky at the same time, a combination I don't often get to see. Kai's withness does him justice in both latspreads, I do like his back latspread as well, it's so meaty..just compare the lower back thickness, and that's what a lot of judges and youtubers point out about phil: "thick lower back" but Kai's on another level. His front latspread is not perfect but you really can't critique him on anything (besides not showing a neck haha) I mean he's complete in this pose. Kai shows more striations in the left pec in the side chest pose, he's surprisingly good at hiding his small forearms, two negative things tho: not a controlled midsection and glutes could have been sharper in this side pose. The transition pose: this proves Kai's potential, it's like a small Ronnie 2003, same striations in the lower back department. In the side triceps pose he could have had a sharper midsection, but also: his triceps just lacks thickness in this pose, I'd say his lateral head is undersized, long head is just fine, again: glutes could have shown more details as well. Abs&thighs: your winner right there, standing in the middle...it's called 'abs&thighs' and he shows a proper midsection and one of the most shredded thighs/quads of all time, this reminds me of Jay 2009. Most muscular: please Kai, for the love of god..don't do the crab pose! Do it with one hand on the thigh, the other in front, looks way more aesthetic and this way his arms don't look like those of a marathon runner. *Phil* Phil is narrow upstairs but has impressive legs, this combination explains his horrible abs&thigh, he doesn't show a clear V-taper and one of his legs is the size of his entire upperbody...but the worst pose for Phil is the front latspread, it's a front latspread, not a front bicep/delt shot...In the front double biceps his extended midsection ruins everything. His side chest is complete, nothing negative to point out, maybe his glutes could have been more conditioned but that's nitpicking. Back latspread: it's quite controversial but his back latspread is probably his best pose (although I'd still give it to Kai for the withness and overall mass) while his front latspread is his worst. Back double biceps is in top 5 of that pose, ever. His tricep overshadows that of Kai in the side triceps pose, so do the details in his legs. Most muscular: overrated I'd say but still impressive to say the least, this year I actually think his crab pose was way better than the hand on the thigh. *Shawn* Not too much to say about him, one thing tho: he comes alive in the side poses and hands closed most muscular. He was way too soft in the other front poses, indeed. I actually have him winning the 2 side poses, based on aesthetics, but Phil destroyed it in terms of sheer size. If I were the Judge I'd hold these 3 positions the way they're standing...champ in the middle, Phil 2nd and Shawn 3rd.
phil beats kai ( regardless of conditioning) on most muscular( any version), side chest, side triceps, back lat spread FLAT DOWN. Back double biceps is debatable, most experts give it to phil, kai only wins abs & thighs and front lat spread,FDB depends on the year for phil.I dont like the way kai hits it, hit the pose like in the manual.Straight on, if you have weaknesses that the judges willnotice tough luck.Even if kai won the BDB, phil still has superior condition , overall shape.Kai has a slight size advantage but nothing too decisive.
TheLusianPopa Yes most of the years Kai couldn't really touch Phil, but this year Phil was off, he was lacking conditioning and shape...while Kai was in one of his best shapes of his entire life, it was close. I think Phil mostly won because you have to KO the champ, which Kai just couldn't do. I like Kai his FDB, it has something extra and I think it flows very well. Phil genetically has a better shape, Kai lacks some bodyparts like forearms, triceps (lateral head) and upper traps. I feel like 2014 was Kai's year, he was definately conditioned. The thing is people think in winpose = +1, lose pose=-1...but the fact of the matter is, most poses Phil wins he doesn't really create a distance, except for the back latspread, most muscular (but not if Kai hits it right...then it is still Obvious but not 'owning') where as if Phil lacks in a pose he doesn't just 'lack' he just looks awkward...front latspread and abs&thigh.
phil was off but kai wasnt mad shredded imo, just better but not alot better conditioning. the whole you have to ko the champ "rule" is BS.Some years the champ was indeed ko and it still didnt happen, 97 and 07 come to mind.Problem with kai is that his relation with ifbb was never the best, and wih his stupid hair and funky posing. and philosophy answers he might be considered too "unconventional". i thik we can agree that was a close contest, and in general when the contest is fairly close the reigning champ gets the nod.I cant think of any contest in which a somewhat off champ was dethroned, maybe sergio in 1970 but that was a long time ago.Other than that never happen
TheLusianPopa Same thing happened with Colemen 2001 and 2002, Jay and Gunther were the clear winners but for some reason Coleman wasn't dethroned until his loss was so Obvious that everybody, literally everybody could see it and IFBB had no other choice but to dethrone him, this however wasn't the case in 97 and 07 in my opinion and yes IFBB doesn't like single-year champs, which might have been another reason for 92 and 93 Yates wins.
its amazing to me that you guys can take a picture of a couple of lumpy guys and tell me that one looks better because his lumps have crisper borders. but seriously I dont have a clue how these guys judge these, they all look fine to me.
Good comment. Guess they get points for each area of the body and for how well they pose. Sometimes it appears to be the judge making his personal choice. I would hate it, after training hard, to be in last place when another person won who was not in as good of shape.
Ronnie Colman. He trained but when he came 17th or close he didn't complain he just worked harder than boom as soon as you know it he came first place and he won 8 Mr Olympia titles
Nobody worked harder than Kai though right? Phil trained on machines and looked like a random guy at the gym throughout the year. Kai and Phil went back and forth before Phils Mr O win. 2012 was a coin flip, Kai flattened out at the finals after looking fantastic at prejudging. Other years Kai didn't bring it. In 2014 Kai came in well and Phil was at 70. In prior years you could say 'Phil was more pleasing to the eye', 'He was more conditioning', and say that it compensates for the size difference and Phils structural issues (and be right most years), but Phil and Kai were in comparable conditioning in 2014, Phil's gut in video was a massive black eye, esp when already giving up so much in size, structure, presentation and having glaringly weak poses (abs and thigh he'd be ranked near last in the field, the front lat not much better)
Kai 100% did not get robbed! Only casual people and fanboys say that. Phil at his worst beats him fair and square. Poses: Fron double bi: Kai, Front lat spread: Kai even though he looks pretty bad, plus he would get smoked if Phil didn't have a midsection problem, Side chest: Phil, Side tricep: Phil, Back double: Phil, Back lat spread: Phil, Abs and thighs: Kai, Most muscular: Phil. Phil beats him shoulders, back, arms, legs and chest. Pretty simple.
Phil was more composed, had proper stance in his poses, regardless of facial expression. Kai's forearms are too small for his upper arms. That's the #1 most neglected muscle imo, whether you're pro or amateur joe. You hardly ever see people work out their forearms in the gym. People think they get a worked out enough during other exercises but it doesnt work like that.
you really sound like a phil apologist here, in your other videos you are incredibly harsh on distended and washed out midsections and then you say phils abs and thighs here is pretty good? you've called dorians monstrously super abs garbage before and you're calling that washed out nonsense pretty good? you cant even see seperation there are no abs
Right said, if Phil had the better side triceps and most muscular crab, then Kai had all the other poses. The rear lat spread here wasn't even a complete pose for kai, not fully ready.
@@Akkiben FDB Kai FLS Kai SC Phil ST Phil BDB Kai (close) BLS draw A&T Kai M&M Phil (Not even close) 4 Kai, 3 Phil, 1 draw. Really close but imo Kai is winning.
@@kingryuga9710 Kai is not objectively winning the BDB. He looks several weeks out and has weak traps and forearms. His hams and glutes looks soft and his because is nowhere near Phil's level of 3D, detail and hardness. Phil also has tricep feathering. Kai's lower body is dwarfing his upper body and making Phil's back look bigger. Abs and thighs is the close one, Kai again soft.
Phil was better in almost every aspect. His belly was sticking out that's the only thing you can point out. They are both maxed out Phil just happen to have more mesomorphic build. Thicker muscles everywhere, in todays bodybuilding that's what matters. I like Kai better, but there's nothing he can do more to be better. You can see all his muscles are separated from his skin :D there's no more muscles to grow there or define.
Honestly kai in my opinion is just not nice to look at, his torso is just a block and then his arms look gangly in comparison, and his legs just look odd. Overall just not pleasant to look at
If you want to see someone who had some of the world's best genetics, look up Flex Wheeler. Flex had small joints and waist than one would typically expect in a 240lb man.
That was Kai’s show! Man he got robbed! Rhodens arms and back literally suck. When you don’t have a good back, you should be out of the top 10 at the Olympia! Do you realize how hard it is to get a good back? It is easy to keep your waist small if you don’t train back. Heavy bent over rows and deadlifts will increase your waist consequently these guys have a bigger waist. Shaun has great lines which are God given. I don’t think there is a lot of effort goes in Shaun’s physique!
In the first photo, Phil is the only one in focus. If you look at Shawn, he is completely out of focus. I think Kai is slightly out of focus as well. You can see it mostly in their faces.
Both Kai and Phil had stomach distention though so I never understood why people thought Kai was robbed because he wasn't. Should Kai have won maybe but it wasn't a robbery just a little controversial
phil has better hammies popping out and back thickness WITH detail also the radial brachialis really closes the show along with traps Kai doesn't have a good V taper either out of all 3
I gotta disagree. It's always apples to oranges when it comes to judging. This was Kai's year. Kai lost in forearms and triceps (always gonna lose there), but won biceps and even shoulders in a few poses. Chest was pretty even, coin toss on size vs definition. From the front, Kai won in lats (most stand out part this year), midsection, again biceps, and had legs as well. Kai annihilated Phil from the back all day long (that's 50% of the game). I can honestly say that Phil's body flows better, but Kai really brought an impressive physique this year that showed excellent symmetry to a mass monster body (he even looked athletic). Kai definitely beat phil on conditioning (what I feel is most important). That is why everyone likes to say that it was so close in 2014 because Kai's conditioning made him stand out far, far more. You don't just overlook a huge flaw like Phil's gut, that should cost you serious points. Flat out, there was no impressive factor to Phil in 2014. Just to put things simply, who's physique jumps out at you more in the first picture shown?
I understand people saying that you have to dethrone the Champ. What isn't taken into account is the flip side to that coin. The Champ needs to keep coming back with the same champion level product (in Phil's case 2011, 2012) or at least something different and interesting. If you fall from grace, you automatically deserve to lose. Otherwise, you are just creating a weaker Mr Olympia show by giving it to the champ that's coming in worse every year. Kai reinvented himself in 2014 and it showed, impressively.
Respect you but Kai was slightly better overall , Unfortunately to beat the reigning champ "slightly" is not enough ! He must knock him in order to win ! But I think Arnold 2016 version of Kai could of win easily VS 2014 version of Phill !
Personally the only poses Phil decisively wins is side tricep and most muscular. Maybe even the back lat spread but kai wins the others plus he is bigger. Phil was more conditioned but I his gut looks so awful from the front. I would probably give it to kai tbh
Yes, he got robbed lol... he got robbed because his gut was sticking out past his chest? He got robbed because judges liked the smaller waist of Phil Heath?
Geez!! In one pose you say Kai looks like sh*t because he has no neck, and then in the RDB pose you're suggesting he should do more work on his traps because they are underdeveloped. That's absurd as the reason he doesn't should be quite clear. You say you're not biased, but it's quite clear you are.
you can not judge based on video and pics. you have to be there in person and next to the judges. a little closer or a little farther and things change.
dude i just understppd how fcking smart bodybuilding pics are. Based on you looks better for a magazine, or if he really has big musckebellies and and uses the angle to make your muscles look bigger. and how it isnt just corrupt.
Don't get how you think Kai and Phil were close in the Front Double Bicep. Phil's midsection completely destroys the aesthetics of it. His facial expression and the way it looks like he's straining so bad... It's BY FAR the least aesthetic of the three even. Kai looks good. Shawn looks good. Phil just plain doesn't. Kai especially has beautiful flow from top to bottom in this pose and Phil doesn't have flow at all. It's not close between the two. I think even Shawn beats Phil in this pose. Aesthetics should play a role in this.
"Just can't win with that midsection." Hey, speaking of which, take a look at Phil's midsection from 2 years prior, which at that time was phenomenal. "Was" phenomenal, relatively. And didn't Kai say, under some pressure, that dwelling on past form, and making dedications about a competition that hasn't happened yet, creates some kind of bias? Because people still think of you because of how you were. Compare Arnold's overall size in 1973 vs 1980. Now gauge how Mentzer had improved that year. Didn't Mentzer say that bodybuilding doesn't stay still and hasn't stayed still? Compare Dorian's torn left bicep with before the tear. Kai's improvements were amazing on the year before. I can't do what they do, but I can admire them and see a few things. That is one weird points split for the top four. You'd have thought they'd be closer? No commentary in the video, just music. I loved it when Shawn Ray had a word. He was so incisive.
Phil's head and neck look like a digglet from Pokemon lol
Ahahahahahahahaahha
Hahahaha too good
xDDDD
Oh no you didn’t 🤣
Captain Zoltan77 legendary
If the contest was based on “who you’d rather look like”, Shawn Rhoden would win
100%....
Whod wanna look like phil or kai....what girl wants to date a dude who has a bigger gut then them pregnant imagine those baby photoshots😂😂😂😂
"So whose giving birth"?
@@ArMiNiSfUCkinRedicK rhoden has a bigger gut than kai
well, thats not how its judged now is it
@@qtime5286 you serious?
100%
I gotta say, it takes a lot of balls to make a video that disagrees with the general consensus, especially as a youtuber. You had a lot to lose by making this video, and I gotta respect you sticking to your guns man.
As for the analysis, I felt you were just about spot on. I'd give a slight edge to Kai, but just because how bad Phil's front lat spread was that year. Kai gained more ground with that pose than Phil did with his most muscular...slightly.
Thanks yeah the one thing I won't do is kiss ass and play favourites. I try to tell it like I see it. You'll notice even though I say Phil won I still criticize him for a lot of things because nobody's perfect.
As for balls... I have barely any views or subscribers lol, the channel's a month old I don't have much to lose by being honest :P
Thanks for the feedback!
@@Tomn8er Hey Tom still remember this comment? Crazy how time flies huh? I saw this comment when it was only a few days old 😂😂 now it's been over 5 freaking years! Now over 70k followers later here we are.
P.s. I still think Kai should've taken this. Despite that it certainly wasn't a robbery. Phil winning wasn't too hard to believe. Hope you're doing well my friend.
@@jamesdjl4359 bruh you ain't never tried a fish sandwich from up art mel's. de fuck ya yeppin bout?
Dude Kai when he his that crab most muscular actually looks like he doesn’t train arms. It looks alien-like how his arms are so small
You’d think it’d be impossible to win the top bodybuilding contest in the world if you don’t have well defined six pack abs.
Dude you need to talk more efficently. You need so many words to make your point
Lmao yea
his videos have improved immensely over the years. the newer videos are night and day compared to these earlier ones....
i personally watch his old videos in 1.25x
I feel like if the 2014 Olympia would happen in the 70's Rhoden would mop the floor with the other two.
It's crazy how someone can tell you this is beautiful and this is ugly and you have to go by it because " this are the rules " that we judge by.
Amazing aesthetics Shawn, it's statuesque 💪💪💪💪
In the 70s there was a similar judging system. The always were searching for mass and conditioning.
Nah, it'd be the same. Arnold won for the same reason Ronnie did. Bigger than those who were more conditioned and more conditioned than those who were bigger. If Ronnie went to the 70's you'd see him winning.
Gotta disagree here Tom. Phil's midsection makes him 3rd at best in the front double, and the abs and thigh. Just can't win with that midsection. Kai has lost his share of events to his midsection, Phil should've lost this one.
In the FDB I just can't stand the gap between Kai's biceps and forearms
Phil won like he should Kai had more weakness than Phil
@@mixedpleasure4324 Kai - traps, forearms. Phil - outsized (objectively Phil is small by olympia contender standards), structure famously narrow, arms too large for his chest, washed out abs with a bloated midsection at this show, narrow in the rear shots with traps taking up half his rear lat spread. Abs and thigh (esp), front lat spread, front double are all very poor for this level - thats 3 of the 8 poses. I struggle to see how Phil has fewer weaknesses at this show if we are being objective
Phil’s 🧬 are SERIOUSLY CARRYING HIM HERE in 2014
The thing I’m starting to notice is that bodybuilders with longer bicep heads tend to have better forearms then those with mountain peaks for biceps
Kris Del Cid except lee priest he had huge forearms
j rv very true.
Yes, it is because long bicep head and brachialis fights over your arm flexion, both do the same thing on the elbow joint, so you will have either one or another,very rarely people.will.haveboth
Ronnie Coleman has something to say about this
You nailed the review. I always come back to this when I forget whya happened that year. LoL. Keep it up.
I put respect on your analysis!!! Keep making videos they're always entertaining.
thanks man
I think the reason you are confused about Kai's rear lat spread is that he has so much fullness in his low lats that there is no taper. It's because he has so much lat thickness that they just don't taper down the way the other two guys do. In my opinion he has so much muscle in his back that his rear lat spread doesn't look like what people have come to think it should - we just can't comprehend the freakishness!
Its his last insertions that take away the v taper, not thickness. His lats insert at the waist, crazy low
Kai was previously told by the judges that he didn't win because his traps were too small and lack of detail in the rear lat spread. He then changed his most muscular and rear lat spread accordingly. After the show one of the head judges said Kais traps overpowered his physique, which is hilarious. It's no wonder he quit after this one as he was able to beat Phil pre olympia (yet Phil won here with a perfect score with one of the worst showings of his career). As fair as the analysis tries to be here I don't think still photos do justice to the difference between Phil huffing and puffing with a big washed out belly on a narrow frame compared to Kais masterful display (of course Phil is standing ahead of Kai in most shots too, less so that 2012, but that gets forgotten in still photos too, so instead of Kai looking 20lb bigger he looks 10)
Shawn looks like a god next to those bloated stomachs.
34:06 " CAN U SMELL WHAT THE GUT IS COOKING"
Kai has the taper though...Phil doesn’t. And kais quads.
That alone is a case for Kai's win. Phil looks out of balance.
I was in the 4th row at the Orleans. When you’re that close, it’s not even a contest. Phil is far, far better than Kai. Seeing Phil in person is quite amazing. 2013 was his best year for me. I’ve been going since 2006 and I’ve never seen a bodybuilder as impressive as Heath.
I mean yeah, you missed the primes of Coleman and Yates. Arguably the only 2 to beat Phil.
@@samraizshoaib585 😴
@@samraizshoaib585 Exactly
@@samraizshoaib585 jay in 2001 as well imo
Dude, you know your shit, and your commentaries almost always make me laugh - you should have waaayy more subs.
i swear when you look too long at this pictures and listening to your voice the pictures start moving!!!!
33:59 I died laughing
simply accidently farting......
I like your videos man but I disagree I totally think Kai won hands down
what pose Kai win ? even Phil have bubble gut, his still looks crazy, crazy arms, wide lats, back detail. Shawn Ray said Phil deserved every win
Phil was "The Gut" rather than the gift in this show. This was Kai's show. 2nd place should have been Rhoden. Phil's conditioning was off, his gut was distended, and he didn't bring that 3-D look that he's normally known for.
Xavier Vega true. Lmao. Very true.
Xavier Vega but his posing isn't as good as Phil.
King Tolbs arnold said that kai is the greatest ppsert
Ice J his posing routine. his mandatory poses are total shit.
I was at this show I think everyone knows that Kais gut was even worse. Phil was off but 80% of Phil is better than 100 of Kai
Shawn Rhoden is looking good in the pic
I think it wasn't for lack of muscle. It came down to genetics. Kai came up against someone who had more pleasing to the eye. Kai was amazing, but at this level, there isn't a way to get beyond genetics.
Phil doesn't genetically have the feathers in his lats, cross straited quads, has a narrow structure with over powering arms relative to his chest and inner thighs that dwarf his quads (of course he's significantly smaller too). All of that is forgiven on Phils side. Phil had conditioning most years that Kai didn't bring without sacrificing fullness - Phil could bring both, and conditioning was massively emphasised when Phil had the crown, and size no longer mattered unlike in historical judging. It's hard to call Phil more pleasing to the eye at this particular show given the gut on a narrow frame, the unsightly neck - he looks pretty ugly in all the front poses, and from the side he's less impressive than usual and certainly not pleasing to the eye. From the back he looks conditioned but narrow, with his traps taking up half his back in the rear lat spread
Dude, facial expressions haha...Kai has zero traps in front Lat spread...Phils arms are super dominant that covers his lats unfortunately
Lee Priest also had great forearms. Especially in his victory poses.
Lee Priest had thick forearms but I think it's mostly the meaty underside if that makes sense. Phil also has the meaty underside, maybe not quite as big, but his brachioradialis on the 'top' of the forearm which ties in to the outside of the bicep is probably the best there has ever been
Bruh you just skipped Shawn in the side chest. He looked so good
I honestly don't like your analysis. *Kai* I'd say Kai's front double bicep is the best front double bicep of all time...reasons: the name indicates that this is a frond double biceps...his biceps from the front are so peaky, reminds me of the golden era. Also how one arm is slightly higher than the other..it's something else, not as clear as an alternative biceps pose as Victor Martinez used to do, but still I'd put him in top of all time for this pose, it's aesthetic and freaky at the same time, a combination I don't often get to see. Kai's withness does him justice in both latspreads, I do like his back latspread as well, it's so meaty..just compare the lower back thickness, and that's what a lot of judges and youtubers point out about phil: "thick lower back" but Kai's on another level. His front latspread is not perfect but you really can't critique him on anything (besides not showing a neck haha) I mean he's complete in this pose. Kai shows more striations in the left pec in the side chest pose, he's surprisingly good at hiding his small forearms, two negative things tho: not a controlled midsection and glutes could have been sharper in this side pose. The transition pose: this proves Kai's potential, it's like a small Ronnie 2003, same striations in the lower back department. In the side triceps pose he could have had a sharper midsection, but also: his triceps just lacks thickness in this pose, I'd say his lateral head is undersized, long head is just fine, again: glutes could have shown more details as well. Abs&thighs: your winner right there, standing in the middle...it's called 'abs&thighs' and he shows a proper midsection and one of the most shredded thighs/quads of all time, this reminds me of Jay 2009. Most muscular: please Kai, for the love of god..don't do the crab pose! Do it with one hand on the thigh, the other in front, looks way more aesthetic and this way his arms don't look like those of a marathon runner. *Phil* Phil is narrow upstairs but has impressive legs, this combination explains his horrible abs&thigh, he doesn't show a clear V-taper and one of his legs is the size of his entire upperbody...but the worst pose for Phil is the front latspread, it's a front latspread, not a front bicep/delt shot...In the front double biceps his extended midsection ruins everything. His side chest is complete, nothing negative to point out, maybe his glutes could have been more conditioned but that's nitpicking. Back latspread: it's quite controversial but his back latspread is probably his best pose (although I'd still give it to Kai for the withness and overall mass) while his front latspread is his worst. Back double biceps is in top 5 of that pose, ever. His tricep overshadows that of Kai in the side triceps pose, so do the details in his legs. Most muscular: overrated I'd say but still impressive to say the least, this year I actually think his crab pose was way better than the hand on the thigh. *Shawn* Not too much to say about him, one thing tho: he comes alive in the side poses and hands closed most muscular. He was way too soft in the other front poses, indeed. I actually have him winning the 2 side poses, based on aesthetics, but Phil destroyed it in terms of sheer size. If I were the Judge I'd hold these 3 positions the way they're standing...champ in the middle, Phil 2nd and Shawn 3rd.
phil beats kai ( regardless of conditioning) on most muscular( any version), side chest, side triceps, back lat spread FLAT DOWN. Back double biceps is debatable, most experts give it to phil, kai only wins abs & thighs and front lat spread,FDB depends on the year for phil.I dont like the way kai hits it, hit the pose like in the manual.Straight on, if you have weaknesses that the judges willnotice tough luck.Even if kai won the BDB, phil still has superior condition , overall shape.Kai has a slight size advantage but nothing too decisive.
TheLusianPopa Yes most of the years Kai couldn't really touch Phil, but this year Phil was off, he was lacking conditioning and shape...while Kai was in one of his best shapes of his entire life, it was close. I think Phil mostly won because you have to KO the champ, which Kai just couldn't do. I like Kai his FDB, it has something extra and I think it flows very well. Phil genetically has a better shape, Kai lacks some bodyparts like forearms, triceps (lateral head) and upper traps. I feel like 2014 was Kai's year, he was definately conditioned. The thing is people think in winpose = +1, lose pose=-1...but the fact of the matter is, most poses Phil wins he doesn't really create a distance, except for the back latspread, most muscular (but not if Kai hits it right...then it is still Obvious but not 'owning') where as if Phil lacks in a pose he doesn't just 'lack' he just looks awkward...front latspread and abs&thigh.
phil was off but kai wasnt mad shredded imo, just better but not alot better conditioning.
the whole you have to ko the champ "rule" is BS.Some years the champ was indeed ko and it still didnt happen, 97 and 07 come to mind.Problem with kai is that his relation with ifbb was never the best, and wih his stupid hair and funky posing. and philosophy answers he might be considered too "unconventional".
i thik we can agree that was a close contest, and in general when the contest is fairly close the reigning champ gets the nod.I cant think of any contest in which a somewhat off champ was dethroned, maybe sergio in 1970 but that was a long time ago.Other than that never happen
TheLusianPopa Same thing happened with Colemen 2001 and 2002, Jay and Gunther were the clear winners but for some reason Coleman wasn't dethroned until his loss was so Obvious that everybody, literally everybody could see it and IFBB had no other choice but to dethrone him, this however wasn't the case in 97 and 07 in my opinion and yes IFBB doesn't like single-year champs, which might have been another reason for 92 and 93 Yates wins.
you mean 94 and 97 yates, 92 and 93 were fairly dominant wins for dorian, especially 93
its amazing to me that you guys can take a picture of a couple of lumpy guys and tell me that one looks better because his lumps have crisper borders. but seriously I dont have a clue how these guys judge these, they all look fine to me.
Yep you know nothing about bb
Good comment. Guess they get points for each area of the body and for how well they pose. Sometimes it appears to be the judge making his personal choice. I would hate it, after training hard, to be in last place when another person won who was not in as good of shape.
And Phill stand more forward and that's cheating
Tom, you're so on point. You should do color on the event. Very entertaining.
thanks man
Ronnie Colman. He trained but when he came 17th or close he didn't complain he just worked harder than boom as soon as you know it he came first place and he won 8 Mr Olympia titles
Nobody worked harder than Kai though right? Phil trained on machines and looked like a random guy at the gym throughout the year. Kai and Phil went back and forth before Phils Mr O win. 2012 was a coin flip, Kai flattened out at the finals after looking fantastic at prejudging. Other years Kai didn't bring it. In 2014 Kai came in well and Phil was at 70. In prior years you could say 'Phil was more pleasing to the eye', 'He was more conditioning', and say that it compensates for the size difference and Phils structural issues (and be right most years), but Phil and Kai were in comparable conditioning in 2014, Phil's gut in video was a massive black eye, esp when already giving up so much in size, structure, presentation and having glaringly weak poses (abs and thigh he'd be ranked near last in the field, the front lat not much better)
Crazy bruh Heath is being dwarfed , with a gut especially between poses
Gottagotomoes debatable but ok lol
Kai also had a guy aswell so shouldn’t they just cancel each other out, and judge the rest of the physique
brooklyn mitrica check the video they all have issues some control it better then others here Phil did not Kai did
That crab most muscular is just unsightly on Kai. He would’ve lost just by that pose, man that’s ugly.
I still had Green winning
I had Kai winning this one. Kai's only glaring weakness is the forearms.
Kai 100% did not get robbed! Only casual people and fanboys say that. Phil at his worst beats him fair and square. Poses: Fron double bi: Kai, Front lat spread: Kai even though he looks pretty bad, plus he would get smoked if Phil didn't have a midsection problem, Side chest: Phil, Side tricep: Phil, Back double: Phil, Back lat spread: Phil, Abs and thighs: Kai, Most muscular: Phil. Phil beats him shoulders, back, arms, legs and chest. Pretty simple.
Isn't this fucked up stomach just disqualifing? How come you can win Mr Olympia with no visible abdominal muscles?!
Phil was more composed, had proper stance in his poses, regardless of facial expression. Kai's forearms are too small for his upper arms. That's the #1 most neglected muscle imo, whether you're pro or amateur joe. You hardly ever see people work out their forearms in the gym. People think they get a worked out enough during other exercises but it doesnt work like that.
I highly doubt Kai neglects his forearms mate. He's an IFBB pro he will hit them hard and often! It's down to his genetics?
Lee Priest never trained forearms
you really sound like a phil apologist here, in your other videos you are incredibly harsh on distended and washed out midsections and then you say phils abs and thighs here is pretty good? you've called dorians monstrously super abs garbage before and you're calling that washed out nonsense pretty good? you cant even see seperation there are no abs
I understand your points and views. I respect them. However, I personally disagree. Yes, Phil may have the edge in a few poses, Kai had the majority.
Right said, if Phil had the better side triceps and most muscular crab, then Kai had all the other poses.
The rear lat spread here wasn't even a complete pose for kai, not fully ready.
@@Akkiben
FDB Kai
FLS Kai
SC Phil
ST Phil
BDB Kai (close)
BLS draw
A&T Kai
M&M Phil (Not even close)
4 Kai, 3 Phil, 1 draw. Really close but imo Kai is winning.
@@kingryuga9710 Kai is not objectively winning the BDB. He looks several weeks out and has weak traps and forearms. His hams and glutes looks soft and his because is nowhere near Phil's level of 3D, detail and hardness. Phil also has tricep feathering. Kai's lower body is dwarfing his upper body and making Phil's back look bigger. Abs and thighs is the close one, Kai again soft.
@@kingryuga9710 come on, the rear double is not even close and in the rear double Kai has no traps, that is a tie
@@kingryuga9710 JAJAJAJA, Kai the BDB?😂.
only 3D effect phil has is his gut
15:30.
kais forearms let him down, so much smaller than phils
phil won for sure because of facial muscles
20:40
Back double bicep was 100% phils in my opinion
Not really. If Phil had the definition, Kai had the lat width and biceps peak.
Kai wins this one imo.
100%, not even close. Kai looks several weeks out with weak traps and forearms.
Kai's got Phil beat in everything except the arms.
Phil has better back, glutes, hamstrings, shoulders, traps, forearms, adductors and most importantly conditioning
In between posing is where his gut was out of control, you should always be in control of your midsection whilst in stage...
Kais physique sucks it lacks a lot
YES! Kai was way better except Forearms and Hamstrings. But in every other area (including midsection), Kai was inarguably better
Phil was more diced and had better traps, glutes, shoulders, arms and the midsection was a wreck for both of them
Kai got involved with some gay BS (grapefruit) stuff. He will never be a champion because of that.
kai is actually looking better in rear double bicep...
Phil was better in almost every aspect. His belly was sticking out that's the only thing you can point out. They are both maxed out Phil just happen to have more mesomorphic build. Thicker muscles everywhere, in todays bodybuilding that's what matters.
I like Kai better, but there's nothing he can do more to be better.
You can see all his muscles are separated from his skin :D there's no more muscles to grow there or define.
Honestly kai in my opinion is just not nice to look at, his torso is just a block and then his arms look gangly in comparison, and his legs just look odd. Overall just not pleasant to look at
People thought kai should won because his abs and nothing else
Ive always said Rhoden looked better than both of them that year. Finally people will take that opinion seriously
I love your videos but kai got robbed hands down.2014 was kai moment
yannick willems 212 too
If you want to see someone who had some of the world's best genetics, look up Flex Wheeler. Flex had small joints and waist than one would typically expect in a 240lb man.
Love the channel, but disagree. Phil was inferior at this show.
No way
I miss those Arnie antics in the intros.
The Grapefruit defeated Kai.
That was Kai’s show! Man he got robbed! Rhodens arms and back literally suck. When you don’t have a good back, you should be out of the top 10 at the Olympia! Do you realize how hard it is to get a good back? It is easy to keep your waist small if you don’t train back. Heavy bent over rows and deadlifts will increase your waist consequently these guys have a bigger waist. Shaun has great lines which are God given. I don’t think there is a lot of effort goes in Shaun’s physique!
In the first photo, Phil is the only one in focus. If you look at Shawn, he is completely out of focus. I think Kai is slightly out of focus as well. You can see it mostly in their faces.
Yes certainly... Kai got robbed of Mr. Bubble Gut Olympia title.
you should change your intro bro lmao
The fact that KAI openly did HOMOSEXUAL CONTENT and G4P ruined his chances. Phil has always been more low key about the G4P stuff he’s done.
Kai Greene should be going for his 4th Mr Olympia title!Phils poses do not look natural.Kai Muscles are much more mature.
in the side chest kai over arches his lower back, he is just a horrible poser, but his stomach is not distended.
Literally almost 15 minutes with one background... Come on man.
I know. Old video
@@Tomn8er Didn't even realize. Sorry for bitching man, you make great content.
Kai beat in every pose shame
Oh come on, you’re ridiculous to say so
Both Kai and Phil had stomach distention though so I never understood why people thought Kai was robbed because he wasn't. Should Kai have won maybe but it wasn't a robbery just a little controversial
Phil was horrible on the first day and came in better on the second day. Kai was great on both days and was robbed.
phil has better hammies popping out and back thickness WITH detail also the radial brachialis really closes the show along with traps Kai doesn't have a good V taper either out of all 3
We could see the bubble gut of Phill coming even in 2014!
I gotta disagree. It's always apples to oranges when it comes to judging. This was Kai's year. Kai lost in forearms and triceps (always gonna lose there), but won biceps and even shoulders in a few poses. Chest was pretty even, coin toss on size vs definition. From the front, Kai won in lats (most stand out part this year), midsection, again biceps, and had legs as well. Kai annihilated Phil from the back all day long (that's 50% of the game). I can honestly say that Phil's body flows better, but Kai really brought an impressive physique this year that showed excellent symmetry to a mass monster body (he even looked athletic). Kai definitely beat phil on conditioning (what I feel is most important). That is why everyone likes to say that it was so close in 2014 because Kai's conditioning made him stand out far, far more. You don't just overlook a huge flaw like Phil's gut, that should cost you serious points. Flat out, there was no impressive factor to Phil in 2014. Just to put things simply, who's physique jumps out at you more in the first picture shown?
I understand people saying that you have to dethrone the Champ. What isn't taken into account is the flip side to that coin. The Champ needs to keep coming back with the same champion level product (in Phil's case 2011, 2012) or at least something different and interesting. If you fall from grace, you automatically deserve to lose. Otherwise, you are just creating a weaker Mr Olympia show by giving it to the champ that's coming in worse every year. Kai reinvented himself in 2014 and it showed, impressively.
Kay was the best that period
Respect you but Kai was slightly better overall , Unfortunately to beat the reigning champ "slightly" is not enough ! He must knock him in order to win ! But I think Arnold 2016 version of Kai could of win easily VS 2014 version of Phill !
Kai version 2016 Arnold can't KO Cedric, and you think he can beat Phil version 2014, lol
George Peterson's shape reminds me of Kai Green
save the Arnold man.
Personally the only poses Phil decisively wins is side tricep and most muscular. Maybe even the back lat spread but kai wins the others plus he is bigger. Phil was more conditioned but I his gut looks so awful from the front. I would probably give it to kai tbh
Phil had bubble gut for days. Kai got robbed
Yes, he got robbed lol... he got robbed because his gut was sticking out past his chest? He got robbed because judges liked the smaller waist of Phil Heath?
@@marijancorluka4500 smaller waist. What about his gut that looked like he was 8 months pregnant, are you joking?
@@mellowman1020 If Phil was 8 months pregnant then Kai was 18 months pregnant. 15:30.
Im more concerned with shawn roden getting robbed, he was the best out of the 3.
Wth? Did you watch the same video I did!
I hate Phil's double bi's. its stupid, guy had best guns in the world and his worst pose was front double biceps, what an irony
Geez!! In one pose you say Kai looks like sh*t because he has no neck, and then in the RDB pose you're suggesting he should do more work on his traps because they are underdeveloped. That's absurd as the reason he doesn't should be quite clear. You say you're not biased, but it's quite clear you are.
13:27 - 14:00 lmao :') your humor is on point dude
you can not judge based on video and pics. you have to be there in person and next to the judges. a little closer or a little farther and things change.
Kia Greene try not to laugh at Phil most muscular face ,rhoden face say who man is this 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
13:46 every time 😂
Kai is better here apart from forearms
To be fair, the detail in Kai's triceps are superior to Phil's, as you said Phil destroyed Kai in that department
Overall phil is damn good then rest both of them. Its very right decision making phil mr. Olympia.
dude i just understppd how fcking smart bodybuilding pics are. Based on you looks better for a magazine, or if he really has big musckebellies and and uses the angle to make your muscles look bigger. and how it isnt just corrupt.
Don't get how you think Kai and Phil were close in the Front Double Bicep. Phil's midsection completely destroys the aesthetics of it. His facial expression and the way it looks like he's straining so bad... It's BY FAR the least aesthetic of the three even. Kai looks good. Shawn looks good. Phil just plain doesn't. Kai especially has beautiful flow from top to bottom in this pose and Phil doesn't have flow at all. It's not close between the two. I think even Shawn beats Phil in this pose. Aesthetics should play a role in this.
Phil is the best!!!!!! Most 3D best arms and chest forearms traps and calves he is legit winner
"Just can't win with that midsection." Hey, speaking of which, take a look at Phil's midsection from 2 years prior, which at that time was phenomenal. "Was" phenomenal, relatively. And didn't Kai say, under some pressure, that dwelling on past form, and making dedications about a competition that hasn't happened yet, creates some kind of bias? Because people still think of you because of how you were. Compare Arnold's overall size in 1973 vs 1980. Now gauge how Mentzer had improved that year. Didn't Mentzer say that bodybuilding doesn't stay still and hasn't stayed still? Compare Dorian's torn left bicep with before the tear. Kai's improvements were amazing on the year before. I can't do what they do, but I can admire them and see a few things. That is one weird points split for the top four. You'd have thought they'd be closer? No commentary in the video, just music. I loved it when Shawn Ray had a word. He was so incisive.
All kai.. especially this shot
100% agree....Phil won but Kai behaved badly didn't help...Phil claims some sort of allergic reaction...judges excused it probably.
Bro your way wrong traps are majorly part of the rdb pose
Not robbed. But Kai should’ve won this year
Dudes belly is bloated my guy. Kai won. 😂
No need for analysis. A quick look is enough. Winner Kai, 2. Shawn, 3. Phil.
dude, midsection issue is due to how they flex their abs in this shot 9.00.