Why The MASSIVE Price Difference? $149 Seagull 1963 v $549 Sea-Gull 1963
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2024
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FINALLY! After a build up of several years, I get to compare the 'Official' Sea-Gull 1963 with the 'Unnoficial' Seagull 1963. How can one possibly be worth so much more than the other? Watch on, my friends. Cheers, Jody
Less text on the dial, display case back, and the option for sapphire? I think I prefer the cheaper option!
That’s the one I’ve had for 10 months. It’s working perfectly and looks great.
The text is significant though - Jody should have found someone to translate it:
- official watch says: China, Tianjin Watch Factory (which is the official name of the 1955 founded watch company)
- unofficial says just: China, Tianjin
@@alectang1614 one of my friends told me it means Tianjin Watch Factory or something like that.
@@alectang1614 significant for some absolutely, still not sure that it's a $400 significance
100% a no brainer, cheaper wins hands down.
As a general point, what I really like about it as well as a few similar watches (e.g. the Red Star chronograph) is the fact that it’s openly, proudly Chinese. It’s not trying to knock something else off or trying to hide what it is.
Even if Chinese watches are (massively) less desirable than Swiss or Japanese watches, the mere fact that it’s something authentic makes it desirable in its own right.
Not really. I mean, I could crap in a box and it would be an authentic turd, but does that make it desirable?
@@genghiskhan7041 what a retarded point
@@genghiskhan7041 Depends. Is the author of said turd Marcel Duchamp or Jeff Koons?
@@Max_Mustermann Hey, how did you know I'm Marcel Duchamp?
I own two of these. A 40mm Chrono Heritage M1963/X - SEA-GULL ST1901 bought directly from Sugess Watch in China and a 40mm limited edition Red Star bronze Seagull 1963 that came from the official Seagull 1963 store in Belgium. The Seagull is a watch that is hard to fault and I‘m quite fond of both of mine but my customer experience with both companies was hardly satisfactory. In sum I was swindled twice. The Sugess was supposed to come with the Swan Neck movement but didn‘t and unfortunately too much time had elapsed before I found out for me to be able to do anything about it. As for the Belgian Seagull 1963, it was only after I had received it that I found out that they do not individually number their limited edition watches (instead all 300 are numbered 1/300) and that it was missing it‘s tag, manual and registration QR code. It was also shipped about two months past it‘s preassigned shipping date. The company in Belgium casually dismissed my concerns and when I asked to return it they informed me that the 14 day return policy had expired. Be very careful who you buy from. The Seagull 1963 company in Belgium seems rotten to the core. I wouldn’t deal with them again if they paid me. BEWARE.
I own the unofficial one. Seeing them compared side by side. I prefer the warmer look and the larger bezel of the unofficial one, it gives it a more vintage feel. Last time I checked it's accuracy was within +-2 seconds
The fake 1963 does not use a Seagull movement, the quality is very poor, and it supports the genuine 1963.
@@zhu8404, what movement has the unofficial inside?
@@J0hnny8ravo same same
@@zhu8404 lol
I think the official one is more beautiful. I have both, and the official strap is much more soft. Serial number on the case back makes the watch so special. The most important is the genuine 1963 has 2 years warranty. The fake one was a trash, it struck after 5-months running.
Sea-gull are shooting themselves in the foot by overpricing these and making them limited. If they made these 200 dolars and regular production, they would effectively kill the market for other variants.
They are all probably owned by the same Chinese firms and wouldn't be surprised if they are made in the same factory... so the official may be there to be a high margin cash grab while the rest are there for the average Joe looking for a bargain.
Bought an unofficial one recently and I'm very happy. The sapphire is worth it even though the bezel is a bit chunky and the display back is nice. A good watch.
Thanks for the video Jody! For the bottom Chinese text, the unofficial version says "China, Tianjin", while official version says "China" on the top, and "Tianjin watch factory" on the bottom.
Another interesting thing is that if you do a bit of digging around, some Aliexpress stores also list an unofficial version that is advertised to have a modified movement with a gooseneck regulator for about $10 extra - I don't have that version, or know if they are as advertised, but it's something people might want to look into.
Glad someone pointed the text out. I actually think it's significant because Tianjin Watch Factory was the original name of Sea-gull and that original name was used in 1955 when it was founded.
Oh great - now I have to wait for Jody's "Is a gooseneck regulator worth $10" video! ;-)
Oh the irony 😉 That China, the master's of the copycat get ripped off by - the Chinese 😁👍
@@simonrobbins8357 My Seagull 1963 has "Made in China" written on it, but in Traditional Chinese rather than Simplified Chinese (中國製造) rather than (中国制造). I guess it would be accurate if it was trying to look like it was made before China switched to the simplified system.
@@simonrobbins8357 Yeah, I'm from Taiwan so the characters didn't even stand out as being wrong until I saw this video lol
I remember talking about this 3 years ago in a previous video. Nice research.
One more thing I'd like to add, the movement on the genuine is signed by Seagull and visibly has more quality than the 3rd party one. Btw got mine on 11/11/2019 at the great price of 250 euros (sales + coupons)
Hey Jody. Glad you did a comparison video. Nice to see the two side by side. The ST19 is one of the nicest movements to look at. It deserves to have an exhibition caseback. IMO. Good video, buddy.
Hi Jody, I got the unofficial one at your recommendation some time ago with the sapphire crystal. Been pleased with it ever since you are right about the straps, I am planning on putting mine on a SS Milanese strap.
Great video. The movement is regardless excellent. The back story is fascinating, with Seagull buying the design and equipment to make it, and add more jewels.
Thanks for this video, I’ve often wondered the exact same thing as I went to buy my 63 two months ago. I bought through Red Star the apparent non-official, 42mm, sapphire, display case back, and I love it, took off the green nato and put on the leather strap. It’s one of the few mechanicals I bought that I’ve never opened to regulate, it keeps crazy excellent time.
i went red star as well, really wanted the display case back and a factory made watch. Though i really like the smaller bezel on the orginal now that i see it, the bezel reflects a bit of light and toneing that down through a smaller bezel could be really nice.
@@eric21881The larger bezel is only on the unofficial one on this video because he chose the sapphire crystal. You can have the unofficial one identical to the official with the exception of the face printing.
I was wondering the same thing while browsing on Aliexpress. Thanks for clarifying!
Jody I am really glad it was you who made this video as it’s been screaming out to be made for years. You have the cams conclusion as me and many others. It’s far too expensive for what it is and for the old tech. The Sea-Gull movements tend to have a swan neck regulator which for tinkerers like me is useful but for an owner who can’t even see it under the case back it’s pointless.
I have the cheaper version and love it for what it is. A very affordable double register mechanical chronograph. Brilliant to learn how the movement works on too.
You would have to be a bit mad to buy the same watch for $600 especially when the cheap one also comes on sapphire if you want it.
For the price they want there are far better watches out there so like you say you would have to REALLY want one.
Good video mate.
I have the unofficial version and prefer it. The display case back and sapphire crystal are improvements that I like. I am not a fan of cloth straps so I put a shark mesh band on mine. The polished mesh works well with the all polished case.
What’s the best place to purchase this watch?
I bought a 38mm official version for $350USD about four years ago. The movement winds smooth and has a quality feel to it.
Wow you are lucky now it's 628 USD!!! I really like the official one but I'm kinda torn on if I should get the official or unofficial
@@johnking9999 Wow, had no idea they cost so much now. On the other hand its a well made watch and the movement seems first class.
Thank you Jody for this video. For a good interpretation it would have been even more explicit to compare two versions with the same acrylic glass. For information, since 2 or 3 years the unofficial versions have a transparent back with a larger opening than the one in the video. It would also have been nice to open the official version to see if the finish is better as claimed by some people. I think that the official version benefits from selected movements, the standard movements being intended for the other suppliers but nothing imho that justifies such a huge price difference.
The fake 1963 does not use a Seagull movement, the quality is very poor, and it supports the genuine 1963.
@@zhu8404 thats completely false bro
I've scoured reddit threads and apparently people are saying that the unofficial version starts to show signs of weakness after a few months or years (1 or 2 years, depending on how often the watch is worn), with some saying that the watch can't be a daily driver. Apparently, on the official version, the movements are checked and inspected, so they don't suffer from the weaknesses of the unofficial version, and even though it's more expensive, that's why I'm leaning towards buying the official version. I want to keep this watch for years, even my whole life, so I go for quality! (I lived in China for years, so there's also a sentimental value for me in having this Chinese watch).
I also went for the official one. . . Too many variants out there for the unofficial ones, I was at a loss which to pick. . .
I'm not buying the "official" label. We've been over this before Jody, and I reckon that Sea-Gull have a very tenuous at best claim to being official, they had not made this watch for decades until an ex-employee set up a deal to revive it in Hong Kong and Sea-Gull would supply movements. I reckon Sea-Gull got greedy.
Great video Jody, I love my little 1963 with acrylic crystal and view it for what it is - a Chinese watch where every second batch has differences, usually in the sub-dial hands
They are a great watch but I will be sticking to the cheaper option.
But was great seeing them side by side
Another enjoyable video where you could get away buying the imitation as just as nice. Great review Jody!
The fake 1963 does not use a Seagull movement, the quality is very poor, and it supports the genuine 1963.
I bought mine from Marc at LIW and gave $379.00 USD for the sapphire sandwich and the swans neck regulator. About 18 months ago. I also bought an inexpensive stainless mesh strap that really makes it pop. Fine reviewJody! Thanks
Big UPS to Marc & the team at LIW 💯
Jazz, do you know of an oyster or other stainless steel bracelet that will fit reasonably well on this 18 mm lug-lug case? I will greatly appreciate any suggestions you have. It seems difficult shot as the lugs are unusually long.
The extra line of text on the official watch is just two characters but I think it looks better with the single line. It's a minor thing really but all of the other differences are pretty trivial as well. It would never enter my mind to pay that much for one of these. Great video!
First line means China = Zhōngguó (as in made in China). The second line means Tianjin Watch factory = Tiānjin shōubiăo chăng (where the original Sea-Gull was made back in 1963)
I just picked up the “unofficial” version and really like the display back & that’s what caused me to go “unofficial”. Cheaper with more features & still the same movement, case and dial? Yea. It was a no brainer for picking up another fun military inspired timepiece
My 1963 came from Seakoss. The NATO strap it came with was much nicer, and it came with a brown leather that's nice too. That brown leather strap dresses it up way nicer than I expected.
I still think that the Red Star one is more original than the original, as it was Mr. Red Star himself, when he worked for Sea-Gull, to resurrect this watch from the dead and launch it back in the early 2000s.
I was literally searching for a video like this yesterday. Was not able to find any on youtube. Thank you.
I bought the unofficial one because of the exhibition caseback. It's a beautiful movement to be seen
Love my unauthentic seagull.
Think if I was so inclined (I am not) I would get the official one. It would make you feel like a Prince knowing everyone else is rocking a unauthentic knockoff and you have the real deal.
Great lesson and always fun learning. Thanks for sharing Mate!
I heard the story that both are actually official. A manufacturer in HK got the official authorization from seagull to produce the ‘unofficial’ one.
Actually that comes up in Jody’s previous video. I always thought Sea-Gull was protesting too much on that basis alone.
Great video mate, very useful, thanks! There is also a manufacturer in Hong Kong who makes different and very interesting versions of these watches, they are called HKED, it would be cool if you could review one of their pieces.
I bought the unofficial version from the Sugess store about a year ago. 40mm with Sapphire, it's working great, keeping fine time. Looks great with different straps from various companies.
I understood that Tianjin Seagull Watch Group produce movement for Shenzhenshi Sugess Timepiece Development Company. ST19 Chronograph Movement produced by Tianjin Seagull Watch Group for the iconic Sugess chronograph model known as (21 Zuan) Seagull 1963. I bought from Sugess also and for me it's Official because it's produced by Tianjin Seagull Watch Group.
And is mechanical chrono?
Definitely the display back is a huge advantage. That movement is the most beautiful in the budget space
I bought my '63 from Watchunique some decade ago or so, it has the same 2 lines of text as the new new 'official' watch and a closed case-back as standard, though the engraving is painted red. The see-through back option wasn't around when I bought mine, came out a bit later.
Great video, it really makes me want a 1963 of some sort! Thanks for the comparison!
I dunno, I think I would feel like I was on guard duty in Outer Mongolia wearing that watch. Maybe a cheerier setting for the movement, like the Sugess chrono Breitling homages.
Picked up a 1963 a few months ago thinking it had an acrylic crystal. Turned out it had a double dome AR crystal and in 40mm
Thank you. This had been my on-going question until someone finally answered it for me on reddit.
I have the unofficial but it has the signed crown and slimmer bezel and I love it.
Very interesting. Thank you!
Thanks for all your research and thanks for sharing the Facts about this SEA-GULL story.
You draw a compelling conclusion.
Un-official versus so called Official
Great video Jody, I own the unofficial version and I am happy with it, no need to spend de extra money, i am waiting on a moonswatch to arrive.
Very good and fair explanatation, thank you for sharing your thoughts based on well information, very helpful.
Great comparo, Jody. Thanks for clearing that up.
I can't bring myself to get one because of that red star and it's implications, yet I have zero problem getting a flieger. I'm not saying it makes sense, but that's the only reason I haven't bought one. Maybe one day I'll get over it. 😎
Same for me. Buying one of these watches is like endorsing active and horrendous human rights abuse. Like, it's happening right now.
@@TheMainCore lmao
My cheap 1963 off AliExpress has the two lines of text on the dial and the signed crown, but the sapphire crystal and exhibition caseback. Came in a box that said Sea-Gull, but without the Sea-Gull logo.
Hi Jodie i have one that resembles A -the official one 2 lines of text domed crystal etc but has a display caseback and no QR code ..so is that an unofficial one then ?
Here was me just last night, trawling AliEx & wondering about this difference. Nice one Jody.
>$1k AUD for a 1963 is absolutely insane. The watch is just NOT worth that kind of money. You're talking a really nice Swiss auto for that, even maybe a Valjoux chrono. That's nuts.
I have a Sugess 40mm. Was inexpensive. I love it, it's great
Been looking on ebay and they have them for £180, they look amazing, thanks for the video about them
This is the dilemma I run into in everything that I collect. Fragrance, sneakers, etc.
If someone is making the exact same thing for a quarter of the price, it makes it difficult to buy the 'official' product.
If it can be sold at a quarter of the price it means that the original has artificially inflated the price due to the brand name, so I don't really feel bad buying the dupe/clone/rep.
If the price is within 20-30% then sure I don't mind supporting the original company, and celebrating their IP, but when companies wildly inflate the price because they are dining out on reputation and brand name I feel less likely to do so.
Of course, often the cheaper version is much lower quality
Hi Jody, thanks for the video. I really like the leather straps shown at 7:20. Any suggestions on where i can buy them?
Justifying over $200 on that movement is insanity. I could leave a watch with that movement in the next city and hear it ticking while in my bedroom and a pillow over my head. I dig the aesthetic, and respect to the design. But the noise of that thing. OOF! Thanks for the video Jody!
That T-shirt is so cool! Love this review, I went with the unofficial version.
Thanks for the video - entertaining and informative, as always.
I need an acrylic crystal and it's a Red Star from Marc at Long Island and believe he sells the Red Star brand, my hope is the domed crystal is the same on both watches and i can find a new piece!
Jody, I have one that I bought for £20 on AliExpress! My one looks identical to both these two watches. However my one is quartz and the dimensions seem a bit bigger
I just pulled the trigger on the Sugess unofficial Segull 1963! It’s far better than the original as it has a sapphire crystal and a see through case back with the gold plated swan neck adjuster. There is zero reason to buy the official one for 3x the price when the movement infact is from the Tianjin factory so essentially both are same!
I bought mine unofficial sapphire version in 2020 for about 125$,some good discount then,movement is smooth,the best timegrapher results of all my chinese collection.There are also "knock-offs" with Hangzhou movement available now.
Is there a difference in the quantity of the movements between the official and unofficial versions? I've bought the unofficial version 3 times and all 3 watches were returned due to faulty movements. Separately, I have two Lorier Gemini's, which have the same movement but their QC is excellent resulting in no issues. Could there be a reliability benefit from buying the official version at the higher price point?
I do like the Sea-Gull Chronograph,its odd i feel hard pressed to buy the Official Sea-Gull because of the price,however I am less bothered the price of the Baltic Bicompax.They both use the Sea-Gull ST1901 movement.Maybe I will get all 3.
Just got my Redstar Seagull delivered. I love it!
Super helpful, thanks.
Awesome, insightful video. Thank you...
If it were to have official versions, we would all have omega's, rolex's and other original high-end watches... but it is not like that... thanks for clarifying the doubts of millions of people my dear, greetings from Caracas, Venezuela
The applied indices are more refined in the Sea-Gull version and better looking, IMHO. I also prefer the bezel on the Sea-Gull version. But is it $400 better looking? I don't think so.
Thanks for the comparison!
Wondering why the Pagani PD-1703 Isn’t getting any love during the 11/11 sale. I got the one that resembles the IWC Mercedes Formula 1 watch. Can’t wait for it to arrive.
This is an important video. Thanks for making it!
Amen! So many have been wondering about the same thing! So much value add in this vid👍
Thank you for the video! Do you happen to know on the unofficial version what the difference is between the Z, SS and Swan Neck versions?
I've had a Red Star 38mm with acrylic for about a year, with display caseback, slightly different hand on one sub-register and "19 zuan" on the dial, though as it is the same movement as all the others, it actually has 21 jewels. I gather the original release in 1963 had 19 jewels and that's why it's on the dial.
I didn't opt for the goose-neck regulator as it looked suspiciously like I'd have to remove the movement from the case to regulate it.
I just bought the 38mm unofficial version. Beautiful watch. I love wearing it. I don't care what others think.
That's the way to go 👌
I've been an admirer of the 63 for a while now & was genuinely flummoxed why they had a huge price difference. I've seen an unofficial watch for £105 & an official for £549. Now, as much as I would prefer an official, I'm not prepared to lay five times more. Great video, I know more now. 👍🏼
Based on reviews on this trusted watch channel, I have a champagne and Orange Sugess ‘Top Time’ homage with the ST1901 that is sold under the ‘1963’ style and it’s one of my favorite watches to look at. I purchased 2 from the Sugess store and the other one uses an automatic movement with an intricate silver dial and blued hands that is almost too nice to wear. I like these because they have a vintage vibe about them and are different from the ‘diver’ style that comprises most of my collection. Thanks to this channel, I have broadened my tastes and purchased a few pieces that I would not have otherwise considered. I’m not quite ready for a Vostok yet but maybe someday, until then I’ll be watching for Just one more watch that I can’t live without! 😂
Thanks for watching Ricky Bobby! Engage slingshot!
It's interesting and refreshing to see an unapologetic Chinese product. Proudly Chinese and not pretending to be a European or Japanese watch.
Word is that the expensive version has such things as actual quality control with their movements. What kept me from buying one of the cheaper ones was the number of posts of people complaining about their watch failing within the first year of ownership. Right now, I would go for a quartz (!) version of the watch. The cheapest option, also made in china with the iconic look but reliable.
mine has two lines of text and a display caseback 🙂 Clearly unofficial, but still a stunning little watch
I have one with 2 lines of text and display case back!
The two lines are actually
China
Tianjin Watch Factory (former seagull factory name)
I bought the Sea-gull when I was living in China around 2018 for around $250. Love it.
Color scheme reminds me of the old Sarb 017. Fine vid Jody …..my bad…Dr. Jody! Thanks
I was always wondering about it. Tnx for info.
It's an interesting comparison.....
I love your t-shirt.
Please advise the swanneck option. What is the difference with the others?
I think you needed to pop the case back off & see if that movement appeared to be of a different (higher) grade for a more decisive conclusion . I've broken one of those just by winding it slowly ten times from a dead stop . 🥺
For the minor differences and the cost of a decent strap I would buy the unofficial version. The Official one doesn't justify the price difference. Enjoyable comparison video Jody. 👍⌚😎
i guess it's really just for purists who feel their honor tainted somehow if they have "Just an imitation" :P
I ordered the new Pagani Design GMT with the NH34 from your affiliate link. I was curious if it's normal for them not to ship right away expecially during a busy sale. Most times it's shipped within a day. Just being impatient. Looking forward to a review!
One of the replicas has been on my list for a few years now, but I can never decide on saphire crystal or not because I'm not super keen on how much extra polished metal there is on it.
I sold the acrylic and bought the sapphire because I was uncomfortable with the idea of scratching it. I guess that is the trade off?
Very interesting video dear Jody but i'm more interested in your T-shirt ... Looks cool Bro !!!
the replica does say "复刻版“ or "replica version" on the case back.
Thanks! Objective as always!
And mine is a mash of both... two text lines and see through case back. Text on dial says "China", and below "Tianjin Watch Factory". At least according to Google translate.
The back says "Replica of the First Aviation Chronograph Watch Made for The Chinese Air Force", and the dial is cream color.
Bought it from the Sugess official store.
Interesting video. I have the unofficial one. But I think I prefer the official one
That huge domed crystal on the Sea-Gull looks nice, but I'd rather have a sapphire and the display caseback, and, of course, the lower price.
A big difference used to be that the left chrono blue hand was unequal to the right one on the official and simetric on the unofficial.
Just ordered my first Brent!!! AM132-RD… no reviews online that I can see.
Hi Jody! Year ago I had conversations with man from channel "Sea Gull 1963" and he wrote me: "Tomas from the Red Star is the original designer from this homage (!!) watch in the yearly 2000's when he was working for Tianjin Watch Group Honkong (back then Sea Gull was split up in different sisters companis over different locations). All watches you see on line use genius Sea Gull ST 1901 movements from Tianjin but since Tomas never registered intellectual propertys of this watch design wich has based on the watch 1963 but looks completely different, in theory everyone could produce this piece :) The discussion between fake and real is s funny one since Red Star is the original producer of this homage watch but use a Sea Gull movement!" So, I hope this information will be useful to you!
One of the few Ali watches I want. Anyone recommend an Ali store to buy from. I hate the endless search with all the horrible or non existent descriptions. Thanks for the video man.
The official non-sale price is starting to get close to Swiss chrono prices, like it's over half the price of some of Hamilton's offerings. I'd be hard pressed to pick an octogenarian movement over that at that price. But the cheap one is still a great buy.
LOVE THE WATCH - BUT ….
I think there may be more of a difference between the two.
I bought an unofficial one through your affiliate link. Out of the box it didn’t run after winding. A google search suggested tapping the watch on a hard surface. I did this gingerly and eventually it started. Two months later the minute hand came loose. You may be able to fix that but I don’t have the tools or the knowledge. A message to the vendor and he said to send it back (and declare that it is ‘stationery’ and valued at $10 so that duty would not be charged!) I did not want to risk it being confiscated by China customs, So I had it fixed in Australia .
A month later I was caught in the rain. To my surprise the watch had water in it. I put it under a lamp with the crown out- it took a few days to dry out.
The next thing was the chrono stopped working. I took it to a very highly regarded watch repairer and he advised that it would be cheaper to get a new movement!
I asked him about the water ingress and he explained that the crown seal had failed ( after 6 months).
After a few months I had also noticed flecks appearing on the watch face and underside of the crystal. I asked the watch repairer about this and he cleaned it for me and explained that the crystal (sapphire) does not have a seal but is glued in place, and the flecks were fragments of dry glue breaking off.
So as much as love the watch ( I get more compliments about it than any other watch I own) I am a disappointed with the quality and the suspect process involved in returning the watch for repair under warranty.
Cheers
Beached As.
For the unofficial one, the display case back says"Seagull "Reissue of the First Aviation Watch of the Chinese Air Force"