The backhoe pattern just makes more sense to me, not because it's what I learned on, but I like the "big" controls like the boom and the swing to be one the same joystick. Then the two motions I need more fine control over are both on my dominant hand. Plus all excavators from our local rental house come delivered with SAE selected so I don't have to worry with changing it
Man I ran a cat mini today for the first time and I wanted to trash it because I'm used to the "backhoe" controls. It just makes no sense and it's seems very unnatural with CAT controls. It was way more challenging than I thought
Personal preference. I cut my teeth on backhoe controls. I prefer them on everything. I can run CAT controls but look like a asshat doing so... I still think backhoe makes more sense. The stick is attached to bucket. One control for that. The main boom is attached to cab... one control for that. Bata-bing! 😁
They definitely make more sense! Other than "My Daddy taught me " on Cat controls......I get the muscle memory aspect as to why they think it's better......but if you really think about the controls themselves, Deere controls (backhoe) are the most efficient !
I was looking to see if anyone would say this. I have dug thousands of stumps with a JD 510 backhoe. Most of them were lighter stumps in my Florida potato fields. I would pull the right lever in on a diagonal curl the bucket and pull in on the stick while at the same time pulling up on the boom and swinging it back and forth with the other hand to wiggle them out. I got on an excavator to do that and as soon as I pulled the "stick" the bucket jumped out of the ground. Using both hands to curl and pull the bucket was just wrong. Plus with the long boom the machine wanted to tilt. With the backhoe if the stump didn't move everything just stopped. I could just dig some more and try again.
Agree 100% Use backhoe setup on both of my machines (both Cat). But have had a hard time running a wobble stick machine with same pattern. I believe it is all muscle memory even though I cut teeth on a 4stick Case as a teenager.
I learned two things from this video. One is that a backhoe can have a extendable stick. Which is cool by the way. The second is that everybody needs a pile of dirt to take apart and put back together for practice and fun. lol
One of the things that puzzle me is why no one makes an extendable dipper stick for an excavator. It sure would be handy for a mini ex. especially when truck loading.
I’ve been paying really close attention to your recent (2024) videos to see if I could figure out the pattern. But one of your commenters put a link to this video which demonstrates it all! Thanks!
Chris. Thank You very much for showing everyone the different machians with their different control stick patterns. Thank You for the ride along video's. Take Care and be safe.
I’m glad they are switchable, I run everything on backhoe pattern, the other day for fun I switched to cat controls and tried loading trucks with the 320 and it was hilarious, kinda scary too!
We have a John deere 250 excavator that is setup like his mini. We also have 2 gradalls that are set up similar to a backhoe. It's a hell of a learning curve when you start to go from one machine to the other.
Thank for that great video. I worked for city of Kalamazoo in Mi. for 30 years,26 yrs on backhoe Started with Ford 4 stick. Then to JD310. On Ford 555 a little. Had JCB and Case, but liked Deere best Smooth controls. Good stability. Keep up the great vids. Thanks again!
You are still above average on that pattern you dont prefer! And you are by far the best opperator I have ever seen on the pattern you do prefer! Super great opperator!! Great video!! Thanks!
Just for fun make a video of you running either machine with your left hand on the right joystick and your right hand on the left joystick! Seriously though- It's pretty cool that you can run both patterns.
My hat's off to you, sir. I recently had a job where I had two pieces of equipment, a skidsteer and a mini excavator- just switching between the machines was a problem. Had to sit there for a second and remember what I was sitting in, and what the hell I had to do. Pretty close up to a house, too, lucky I didn't knock a wall in...
Congratulations on knowing how and operating different patterns. Operators can train themselves on various machines with efficiency....that is one of the designations of a great operator! I, like you and others, have owned and operated different patterns, "just some time in the seat"! For a fun time on an excavator with a 5 y.o. grandson, I set him on the seat in front of me and had him place each of his hands on top of mine. After a few repeat movements (20-30 minutes) I noticed that he was trying to help...lol.
What I've been able to determine, is the location of the hands.......... joysticks are out and to the side where you sit comfortable in the seat (relaxed state). Wobble sticks are out in front with hands closer together.... typically in a more upright position. Those are the differences where the mind/position tells you subconsciously what to do with your hands.......... still with scratcher (backhoe) controls, periodically, I can still find myself goofing up.
Its what ever you are used to, backhoe control pattern is usually used by old guys its what they are used too as backhoes were a lot more common back in the 70s-80s. A friend of mine he is in his mid 30s he learned on a gray market excavators which were backhoe controls he can't operate "Cat" controls.
Yep can definitely tell when you changed in the yanmar you did alright but it was funny as hell it does look confusing when you have 2 different control patterns 🤔
As an operator myself, and a musician, I always compare it to switching from iso to sae is like playing guitar left handed on a right hand guitar then given a left hand guitar to play. Your brain has a harder time unlearning something than it does learning.
@@Digginok I thought about you when I watched a video on mrzygy3 today.. they had an S90. Let's just say, they don't take care of it like you do yours!! Lol (I think it's Philippines)
@@azwrenchmaster5334 Indonesia. One thing I noticed in the Philippines and Indonesia is I never saw women working on any sort of construction. Not once in any capacity. Now I'm going to have to look through his channel and others and see if I see any.
I have always been able to go from excavators to backhoe and then back. I hate operating a excavator in backhoe controls. But strangely I can operate a backhoe in either one.
@@ut000bs I've never seen any either, and I've watched a ton of their vids. Even with their worn out equipment, those boys sure know how to move dirt tho.....and smoke cigarettes!
Honestly a hardcore video gamer wouldn't have any problems with either pattern. It only takes me a very short time to figure out left right up and down in whatever game I'm in
Never operated in my life, but for my taste SAE is just more "intuitive" Left control handles the first two movements of the arm Right control handles the last two movements BTW: Never thougth I'd ever say that US>ISO... - normally metric systems wins for being more intuitive.
Same as you .can’t get the whole boom crowd thing going with backhoe controls on our excavators but on our Deere 410g backhoe no problem with backhoe controls. From my experience is most plumbers,electricians and some concrete company operators use backhoe pattern. Site guys typically run excavator pattern. Nothing worse than someone using your machine and when you return the pattern is swapped.
I used to be able to run backhoe controls on a wobble stick and excavator controls in a excavator. My old boss would always say “your going to end up killing someone someday, just run backhoe all the time!” (Cause that’s what he ran). Haven’t ran backhoe controls since I left that company and if I had to do it today it would be an awful mess lol
Wow, that’s pretty good that you can run either, so you could handle any situation. I learned on a backhoe, SAE controls, so that’s how I run both types of machines. But I’m not a proffesional so I guess that’s not really that surprising.
@letsdig18 I know a few men like yourself they run backhoe as a backhoe and excavator as excavator. However when they purchase a new backhoe with excavator style joystick (mounted to the seat) they then run the backhoe as an excavator
I grew up on Backhoe pattern with JCB being on an X instead of +. I hadn't run any construction equipment for 17 years then a guy asked me to diagnose a Hitachi UH07 excavator. I fired it up ran it for 2 minutes then the backhoe pattern came into my head of 2 functions swapped and I was done. it completely threw me out of whack I never thought that would happen after all those years. My Latest JCB has a pattern box on it so it's converted from X to + like the Deere. I don't have a problem with that as the levers still do the same thing, and I like it better than the X I drove for years. On the construction forums you can tell the operators that have never driven JCB on X pattern, They say the blocks messed up they get 2 functions working together all the time when they pull the levers. That is what happens when they try driving the X pattern as the + they are used to. It's nice to know even a professional can get screwed up between the 2 patterns sometimes. Thanks for the video.
What about a newer backhoe with joy sticks can you run it “backwards”? We have a new Deere that we can switch back and forth. The controls that really screw with me are the skid loaders when one stick is both wheels and the other is boom and bucket, first time I got in a bobcat set up that way I almost took out a new pickup next to it!
I hate bobcat foot controls. just like I hated case foot controls on their backhoes for the swing. I love joysticks, all controls in the hands. I can run backhoes that have the excavator controls with the excavator pattern. But I still don't like backhoes. The dozers that I like are the John Deere dozers with the joystick controls, same as a skid steers.
Thanks for documenting this definitely helped me to understand the difference in controls my dad has a little CAT excavator I haven't run yet but I have run backhoes which is what he had before he got the CAT
I’m used to backhoe controls but i can run excavator controls once I warm up to it. If I’m on working on steep ground I prefer backhoe controls because it’s completely instinctive to me. That way if something wanky happens, I don’t have to think about it. I just naturally react.
Thank you so much for talking about the way control patterns are set up. I will talk about the way the Factory set up my Dynahoe-190. The standard 4 control was basically set up like ( Case 580 series) except on Dynahoe the stabilizers control were in the middle instead of on Sides. The swing was so far Right controls. If my Dynahoe-190 came from the factory with what they called (Twin-A- Trol) basically two joy sticks. It was Factory (JD) my TWO Levers Dynahoe is set up with the ( CAT) control. Boom on the Right lever. A back story I got Laid off a job because I had already run (Case) control. I did a terrible job at Digging with Joy sticks being used to Case control. If you look back at the 1970s the (S.A.E. Standard J-983) the swing was on the left side and the Boom on the Right side. Looking back at the Hydraulic Excavator coming on the market for the time. The Swing was forward and back on the left Joy stick, the boom was on the Right joy stick. You look back a Koehring and BUCYRUS-ERIE even though they had Joy sticks they keep the swing forward and back on Left and boom on Right. Different manufacturing made Foot control for Dipper and Tool. That's what they called the (Bucket) Case & Drott were the only ones to make a true Joy stick. Whether you wanted boom or Dipper on Left or Right control. They also made 4 foot pedals for Dipper or bucket. You just need a Factor guy to "CHANGE" the pattern you wanted. Many early Hydraulic Excavators were set up basically like the cable machine, guess back then it was only for guys that could be a good operator with that pattern of control. Anyway Thank you so much for doing the demonstration. My personal beliefs are the way the boom is set up. Is it an excavator boom or backhoe type boom, the arch might be a "BIG" factor in how controls are set up.CATS first Excavator the (225) and the massive ( 245) had the Boom on Right control. Maybe that's where the term ( Cat or S.A.E.) started from. Those were the FIST excavator (CAT)brought to the market. Personally I have a lot of operators manuals from the 1970s and they show the control set ups from Factory. This is something that has always been very interesting to me on CONTROL set up be it a backhoe or excavator. Don't let me get started on (FORD & M.F.) or International for that matter. International had the Levers on each side of the seat. Two on each side.
Should do another fun video like this. It’s funny watching skilled people struggle sometimes. I hate iso. I carried wobble stick controls with me to the excavators. Just feels more natural. But the struggle is real between the too.
Thanks for sharing @letsdig18 I didn't know that, which if I do remember right I think someone told me once but am not quite to sure though, cuz I thought before backhoes and excervters controls operates the same way, so I'll bet it does get confusing...lol but inerways again thanks for sharing. But good work.
I like the four stick setup myself. Not sure if that's a Case exclusive thing or not. John deere makes a great backhoe, though. I'd sooner run an excavator before a backhoe either way. Cheers.
Good operators can run both on anything 😏 so I was told anyway. I still prefer cat though. I actually think most newer machines have a little valve you can turn to change between them depending on your preference.
That's not true most people can only run whatever they learned on I consider myself a good operator I've been running machines for almost 30 years and I can only run on cats style most new machines like newer than early 2000s do have a valve and it's very easy to switch to either pattern
I don't think I've ever met anyone who can easily switch back and forth to either pattern it is very hard to run a machine that is opposite the pattern you used to trust me I've tried it many times
@@jamescoli3209 yeah I've tried it too its difficult. But I haven't been in a piece of equipment for a while so maybe if I started on deere controls if i get back to it I'd be ok. Skid steers too something he didnt mention here I drove a JD one once and you could toggle the joysticks. That was hard to try and run usually I have one stick for machine movement and one for boom/bucket but you could change it to where both sticks did movement and one side did boom other side bucket. Crazy all computerized stuff too. I'm not a big fan of electric over hydraulic either not as responsive if you're trying to shake stuff out
@@angrytrucker3628 yeah everything's electric over hydraulic now most Bobcats you run the bucket with your feet and you drive with your hands that's all I'm used to running a bobcat but I have ran a bobcat the other way too where you use your hands to drive and for the bucket I don't have much experience in a Bobcat with I don't own one I mostly run excavators bulldozers and front end loaders but the first machine I learned on was a Case 580 backhoe loader with the five sticks in the back to run the backhoe I was driving one of those when I was 5 years old my dad owns equipment
@@jamescoli3209 I run JD controls on my excavator and my backhoe. I get fatigued fast trying to operating cat controls with any accuracy and efficiency.
I learned ISO/cat once when I had to operate a 325 that had fixed plumbing. First few stump pulls were ugly, after an hour or so I got the hang of it. By end of first day I was pretty fluid, but not as comfortable as SAE/deere pattern.
I learned to run backhoe on an international harvester with 4 sticks so going to a Ford 4 valve is no problem and going to a case 3 lever with foot swings is also no problem. They all put the boom control in the right hand and stick in the left. So when I get on a two stick, the iso controls work best. On almost any other type of machine you get on the boom control will be in the right hand.
Only machine I’ve logged many hours on was an old International backhoe from the mid 60s it has 6 levers 3 on each side of the seat. Right side of the seat stabilizer swing and bucket Left side of the seat stabilizer stick and boom. Thank you for the great video Chris bet you could dig blindfolded.
Ha ha! Chris on mini in backhoe pattern looks like me on my trackhoe (ISO) after running John Deere controls on my mini. John Deere( backhoe) controls just feel/fit better for me.
I remember the Deere Longreach video you did that had the backhoe pattern cleaning out that water channel. You were pretty rough in that. I been waiting for a video like this. Thanks Chris.
Its the same with me, I can run a backhoe with backhoe controls and an excavator with ISO controls, but can't do excavator with backhoe controls lol. I think it has something to do with the shape of the boom. Excavator booms are more curved than a backhoe and that makes it behave differently.
I used to work with both cat and deere excavators had to learn both patterns. Never associated patterns with machine. Just get in and realize what pattern it is then run with it. Got pretty used to both patterns.
16 years and I hate changing patterns 😁. Excavator or ISO pattern I can get things done in less than half the time using the backhoe pattern. I would rather run joystick than a wobble stick any day. Wobble stick I have to think about every move and the joystick is just an extension of my hands with out even thinking about it. Digging up high pressure gas lines is better done with the equipment you are more comfortable operating.
I grew up operating backhoe as a kid when my Dad had his company and I was taught on Deere. Now I'm older and love Cat controls, but I can still operate Deere controls, just not my preference. Something about using my left hand to Swing and my right hand to Boom up seems to make hogging dirt faster for me.
Anyone know WHY the multiple versions? Was there some patent or something that caused the need for it? JD pattern would drive me nuts by the way. And the old school 3 spool valves OMG
Growing up my old man had 2 bit construction company. He would borrow or his brother would leave is Dyna Hoe 19 at our hobby farm which was the construction lot. I use to spend hours and days in the peat bog digging duck ponds. That old Dyna Hoe had 4 controls, one thing nice it would do 2 functions at one time, then he demoed a Case 480 I think it was the same as the old Dyna Hoe. I love the Dyna Hoe, I think it had a Detroit Diesel in it and the exhaust and sound where different and I loved them both. Then he found an old junk Massey Ferguson Back that he cobbled together, it had the 4 sticks but could not do 2 functions bring the stick in and bring the boom up or curl the bucket. Hated that thing.
I am 67 years old and retired I've ran John Deere rubber tire backhoes since 1972. And in my era when Cat came out with the two stick control it was backwards from John . Deere had the original two stick control and cat just had a fuck everything up and decide to change it. Most excavators before that time were more like the case backhoes of that time and then had either a foot swing in three levers or four levers to run an excavator that was the common. John Deere came out with a 2 lever control before anybody else came out with it.cat had to turn it around which to this day I still can't run a goddamn cat trackhoe or for that matter a cat backhoe well for that matter a case backhoe. When you start to run one thing it becomes that you only look at the teeth of the bucket and your arms your hands automatically do what your eyes are seeing or what your eyes are telling them to do. I admire somebody that can run several type of controls but anyway is my day cat was backwards when they came out with the two stick controls John Deere was the common two sticks that's when they started making backhoes they continued on keeping their pattern and everybody else follows caterpillar after caterpillar changed it around so that's how everything got all screwed up in that direction. If you ask me the John Deere's makes more sense common the left hand runs the boom up and down and to each side makes you turn right or left so that's all connected together you go over to your right hand your stick goes out we push it out and it comes in when you pull it in you don't you go to the push it to the right and to the left you curl the bucket now you can combine those all together and make it nice smooth pattern the caterpillar screwed it up far as I'm concerned they put the boom and what the bucket on the left side and a swing in the Dipper it just doesn't make sense it doesn't go follow the dots you're separating the sequence of how the thing is put together swing boom Dipper and bucket one man's opinion that doesn't count anymore because he doesn't work anymore LOL
Backhoes I learned on were the same as yours but the Cat 311B Excavator I ran had the swing and bucket changed. Boom and Dipper were left and right respectively.
You should try the old Case 4 stick TLB, Thats what I learned on Then moved on to a Cat 235 excavator and I thought I was in heaven. That was back in the 70`s. I`m retired now but you bring back a lot of memories Thanks. I worked mostly on sewers and water mains building subdivisions in Ontario Canada. Again thanks for the memories.
Really good vid... will help new operators a lot. I started with backhoe controls and even up to 800T machines this was the pattern to use because having slew and boom together made it possibe to use the radio with a free hand. It wasn't until I had to use a machine with excavator pattern that I couldn't change which forced me to learn the excavator pattern but glad I did. Still takes half hour to switch comfortably though.
I only have like an hour of practice on both and whenever I switched from an excavator to a backhoe I was always confused why something didn’t feel right. It makes sense now
Thanks, Chris....It's as clear as the mud at the bottom of the big pond you just finished with. Fortunately, whereas you are an artist with the machines. I would be the first patient at the Massachusetts Institute for the mechanically Inept/Stupid. Thank God I never had to earn a living working with machines. I can praise you and Timmy, and mean every word of it; and also enjoy watching your videos, which I most certainly do, every day. Thank you.
Nice video, instructive. Someday get me to tell you about my brief and frustating work with a 1955, Gallian "Grade-O-Matic". Talk about trash, in a far away land.
Chris....what I'd like to see is a side by side of what the excavator is doing and how you manipulate the controls to get it to do it. Your ability on using the controls to get dirt moved is impressive. I've recently got a small "Orange" KX040 excavator and it drives me crazy trying to figure out how to bring the bucket back level using the dipper and boom controls.
I drive an -18 Doosan Dx235 lcr-5 and tracking forward with the pedals on that one is with the drive motors in the back and idlers in front of you haha.
I've trained myself to run both. Here in the north it seems everyone runs either. Instead of digging for valves or crying for the lines to be switched I just dealt with it. After growing up running a gradall with 4 straight sticks foot swing with no brake and a screaming detroit sitting on a wooden crate.. I'm just happy to have arm rest controls.. like the videos big guy.
Great video. I'm a homeowner looking to build our retirement home, w/basement next year. Do you have a preference for a backhoe i.e., Cat, Case Volvo, John Deere? I favoring the Cat 420F2 IT, or the Case 580SM. Thanks.
We have a JD 35D mini excavator with excavator and backhoe controls. Half of us run excavator and the other half runs backhoe. Always having to switch back and forth.
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The backhoe pattern just makes more sense to me, not because it's what I learned on, but I like the "big" controls like the boom and the swing to be one the same joystick. Then the two motions I need more fine control over are both on my dominant hand. Plus all excavators from our local rental house come delivered with SAE selected so I don't have to worry with changing it
Man I ran a cat mini today for the first time and I wanted to trash it because I'm used to the "backhoe" controls. It just makes no sense and it's seems very unnatural with CAT controls. It was way more challenging than I thought
Very smooth operator on the excavator and no slouch on the backhoe! Thanks for the show!
Personal preference. I cut my teeth on backhoe controls. I prefer them on everything. I can run CAT controls but look like a asshat doing so... I still think backhoe makes more sense. The stick is attached to bucket. One control for that. The main boom is attached to cab... one control for that. Bata-bing! 😁
They definitely make more sense! Other than "My Daddy taught me " on Cat controls......I get the muscle memory aspect as to why they think it's better......but if you really think about the controls themselves, Deere controls (backhoe) are the most efficient !
I was looking to see if anyone would say this. I have dug thousands of stumps with a JD 510 backhoe. Most of them were lighter stumps in my Florida potato fields. I would pull the right lever in on a diagonal curl the bucket and pull in on the stick while at the same time pulling up on the boom and swinging it back and forth with the other hand to wiggle them out. I got on an excavator to do that and as soon as I pulled the "stick" the bucket jumped out of the ground. Using both hands to curl and pull the bucket was just wrong. Plus with the long boom the machine wanted to tilt. With the backhoe if the stump didn't move everything just stopped. I could just dig some more and try again.
Bucket and stick in the same hand make so much more sense to me. Feels more natural and I tried both patterns at the start.
Worst part is if you work out of the Hall or just work for other Contractors in general, i bet 80%+ have Cat controls on their Hoes.
Agree 100% Use backhoe setup on both of my machines (both Cat). But have had a hard time running a wobble stick machine with same pattern. I believe it is all muscle memory even though I cut teeth on a 4stick Case as a teenager.
Lmao. That long dipper pond excavator you rented before was deere pattern. I remember that
Backhoe not deere
Todd Reynolds qwe
fake
I learned two things from this video.
One is that a backhoe can have a extendable stick. Which is cool by the way.
The second is that everybody needs a pile of dirt to take apart and put back together for practice and fun. lol
One of the things that puzzle me is why no one makes an extendable dipper stick for an excavator. It sure would be handy for a mini ex. especially when truck loading.
@@davidmorse8432 they have them here, extendahoe i've seen it called
The Backhoe The One That Dug Up The Furlings With Its Back Bucket While They’re Trying To Run Away From It
Should've thrown the classic 3 stick case in for haha's.
The piano players. 😀
I hate case!
Thank you for doing this! Recently purchased my first backhoe and this vid gave me an idea of what a good operator looks like and what Im capable of!
I’ve been paying really close attention to your recent (2024) videos to see if I could figure out the pattern. But one of your commenters put a link to this video which demonstrates it all! Thanks!
Chris.
Thank You very much for showing everyone the different machians with their different control stick patterns. Thank You for the ride along video's. Take Care and be safe.
Thanks for taking the time to explain the controls on the 2 different machines
When your worst operating is still better than mine 😂
It is pretty clear. Thanks for taking the time.
Thanks for explaining the difference sir. Never ran either but always wondered how it's done. Excellent video.
I'm 100% with you man. When you can turn 360 degrees. From 180. It just changes everything.
I’m glad they are switchable, I run everything on backhoe pattern, the other day for fun I switched to cat controls and tried loading trucks with the 320 and it was hilarious, kinda scary too!
Did this today. I’ve e never felt so inept. My spotter got ton the two-way and was like: “you ok, dude? Do you need a break?” 😂😂😂
We have a John deere 250 excavator that is setup like his mini. We also have 2 gradalls that are set up similar to a backhoe. It's a hell of a learning curve when you start to go from one machine to the other.
Thank for that great video. I worked for city of Kalamazoo in Mi. for 30 years,26 yrs on backhoe
Started with Ford 4 stick. Then to JD310. On Ford 555 a little. Had JCB and Case, but liked Deere best
Smooth controls. Good stability.
Keep up the great vids. Thanks again!
Another four stick man! Deere control are the best!
You are still above average on that pattern you dont prefer! And you are by far the best opperator I have ever seen on the pattern you do prefer! Super great opperator!! Great video!! Thanks!
Definitely different Chris plus you make it look so easy 👍🏻
Just for fun make a video of you running either machine with your left hand on the right joystick and your right hand on the left joystick! Seriously though- It's pretty cool that you can run both patterns.
Awseome video Chiss. Love the information and watching your vids... Not boring at all. Great to learn this way. Thanks!
My hat's off to you, sir. I recently had a job where I had two pieces of equipment, a skidsteer and a mini excavator- just switching between the machines was a problem. Had to sit there for a second and remember what I was sitting in, and what the hell I had to do. Pretty close up to a house, too, lucky I didn't knock a wall in...
Great learning video. Thanks for the show.
Congratulations on knowing how and operating different patterns.
Operators can train themselves on various machines with efficiency....that is one of the designations of a great operator!
I, like you and others, have owned and operated different patterns, "just some time in the seat"!
For a fun time on an excavator with a 5 y.o. grandson, I set him on the seat in front of me and had him place each of his hands on top of mine. After a few repeat movements (20-30 minutes) I noticed that he was trying to help...lol.
arkansas13, Congratulations for having the most retarded comment under this video!
What I've been able to determine, is the location of the hands.......... joysticks are out and to the side where you sit comfortable in the seat (relaxed state). Wobble sticks are out in front with hands closer together.... typically in a more upright position. Those are the differences where the mind/position tells you subconsciously what to do with your hands.......... still with scratcher (backhoe) controls, periodically, I can still find myself goofing up.
It's like a righty learning to use his left hand...very awkward looking, but gets the job done
Its what ever you are used to, backhoe control pattern is usually used by old guys its what they are used too as backhoes were a lot more common back in the 70s-80s. A friend of mine he is in his mid 30s he learned on a gray market excavators which were backhoe controls he can't operate "Cat" controls.
i always wondered what the difference was between the two. Thanks!
Yep can definitely tell when you changed in the yanmar you did alright but it was funny as hell it does look confusing when you have 2 different control patterns 🤔
As an operator myself, and a musician, I always compare it to switching from iso to sae is like playing guitar left handed on a right hand guitar then given a left hand guitar to play. Your brain has a harder time unlearning something than it does learning.
But did you run over your camera case you left on the track Chris?
Just gotta use what your use to and they make it easy to switch it for different operators!! Thanks for sharing!!
LIKE the Fun Facts ... nice to hear it from Owner / Operator viewpoint
All about time in the seat..nice demonstration.
Nothing wrong with backhoe controls 😉🤣 it’s definitely all about what you are use too. I’m that way on something all depends what machine you are on
Use what works best!
@@Digginok I thought about you when I watched a video on mrzygy3 today.. they had an S90. Let's just say, they don't take care of it like you do yours!! Lol (I think it's Philippines)
@@azwrenchmaster5334 Indonesia. One thing I noticed in the Philippines and Indonesia is I never saw women working on any sort of construction. Not once in any capacity. Now I'm going to have to look through his channel and others and see if I see any.
I have always been able to go from excavators to backhoe and then back. I hate operating a excavator in backhoe controls. But strangely I can operate a backhoe in either one.
@@ut000bs I've never seen any either, and I've watched a ton of their vids. Even with their worn out equipment, those boys sure know how to move dirt tho.....and smoke cigarettes!
Honestly a hardcore video gamer wouldn't have any problems with either pattern. It only takes me a very short time to figure out left right up and down in whatever game I'm in
Never operated in my life, but for my taste SAE is just more "intuitive"
Left control handles the first two movements of the arm
Right control handles the last two movements
BTW: Never thougth I'd ever say that US>ISO...
- normally metric systems wins for being more intuitive.
Same as you .can’t get the whole boom crowd thing going with backhoe controls on our excavators but on our Deere 410g backhoe no problem with backhoe controls. From my experience is most plumbers,electricians and some concrete company operators use backhoe pattern. Site guys typically run excavator pattern. Nothing worse than someone using your machine and when you return the pattern is swapped.
I used to be able to run backhoe controls on a wobble stick and excavator controls in a excavator. My old boss would always say “your going to end up killing someone someday, just run backhoe all the time!” (Cause that’s what he ran). Haven’t ran backhoe controls since I left that company and if I had to do it today it would be an awful mess lol
Wow, that’s pretty good that you can run either, so you could handle any situation. I learned on a backhoe, SAE controls, so that’s how I run both types of machines. But I’m not a proffesional so I guess that’s not really that surprising.
@letsdig18 I know a few men like yourself they run backhoe as a backhoe and excavator as excavator. However when they purchase a new backhoe with excavator style joystick (mounted to the seat) they then run the backhoe as an excavator
Thanks for the informational vid . great job
I grew up on Backhoe pattern with JCB being on an X instead of +. I hadn't run any construction equipment for 17 years then a guy asked me to diagnose a Hitachi UH07 excavator. I fired it up ran it for 2 minutes then the backhoe pattern came into my head of 2 functions swapped and I was done. it completely threw me out of whack I never thought that would happen after all those years.
My Latest JCB has a pattern box on it so it's converted from X to + like the Deere. I don't have a problem with that as the levers still do the same thing, and I like it better than the X I drove for years. On the construction forums you can tell the operators that have never driven JCB on X pattern, They say the blocks messed up they get 2 functions working together all the time when they pull the levers. That is what happens when they try driving the X pattern as the + they are used to. It's nice to know even a professional can get screwed up between the 2 patterns sometimes. Thanks for the video.
What about a newer backhoe with joy sticks can you run it “backwards”? We have a new Deere that we can switch back and forth. The controls that really screw with me are the skid loaders when one stick is both wheels and the other is boom and bucket, first time I got in a bobcat set up that way I almost took out a new pickup next to it!
Hahaha
I hate bobcat foot controls. just like I hated case foot controls on their backhoes for the swing.
I love joysticks, all controls in the hands.
I can run backhoes that have the excavator controls with the excavator pattern. But I still don't like backhoes.
The dozers that I like are the John Deere dozers with the joystick controls, same as a skid steers.
Thanks for documenting this definitely helped me to understand the difference in controls my dad has a little CAT excavator I haven't run yet but I have run backhoes which is what he had before he got the CAT
I’m used to backhoe controls as soon as I step in something with iso I’m like alright where’s the switch at haha
I’m used to backhoe controls but i can run excavator controls once I warm up to it. If I’m on working on steep ground I prefer backhoe controls because it’s completely instinctive to me. That way if something wanky happens, I don’t have to think about it. I just naturally react.
Thank you so much for talking about the way control patterns are set up. I will talk about the way the Factory set up my Dynahoe-190. The standard 4 control was basically set up like ( Case 580 series) except on Dynahoe the stabilizers control were in the middle instead of on Sides. The swing was so far Right controls. If my Dynahoe-190 came from the factory with what they called (Twin-A- Trol) basically two joy sticks. It was Factory (JD) my TWO Levers Dynahoe is set up with the ( CAT) control. Boom on the Right lever. A back story I got Laid off a job because I had already run (Case) control. I did a terrible job at Digging with Joy sticks being used to Case control. If you look back at the 1970s the (S.A.E. Standard J-983) the swing was on the left side and the Boom on the Right side. Looking back at the Hydraulic Excavator coming on the market for the time. The Swing was forward and back on the left Joy stick, the boom was on the Right joy stick. You look back a Koehring and BUCYRUS-ERIE even though they had Joy sticks they keep the swing forward and back on Left and boom on Right. Different manufacturing made Foot control for Dipper and Tool. That's what they called the (Bucket) Case & Drott were the only ones to make a true Joy stick. Whether you wanted boom or Dipper on Left or Right control. They also made 4 foot pedals for Dipper or bucket. You just need a Factor guy to "CHANGE" the pattern you wanted. Many early Hydraulic Excavators were set up basically like the cable machine, guess back then it was only for guys that could be a good operator with that pattern of control. Anyway Thank you so much for doing the demonstration. My personal beliefs are the way the boom is set up. Is it an excavator boom or backhoe type boom, the arch might be a "BIG" factor in how controls are set up.CATS first Excavator the (225) and the massive ( 245) had the Boom on Right control. Maybe that's where the term ( Cat or S.A.E.) started from. Those were the FIST excavator (CAT)brought to the market. Personally I have a lot of operators manuals from the 1970s and they show the control set ups from Factory. This is something that has always been very interesting to me on CONTROL set up be it a backhoe or excavator. Don't let me get started on (FORD & M.F.) or International for that matter. International had the Levers on each side of the seat. Two on each side.
Should do another fun video like this. It’s funny watching skilled people struggle sometimes. I hate iso. I carried wobble stick controls with me to the excavators. Just feels more natural. But the struggle is real between the too.
Very informative
Yep did enjoy bro. I guess it is like going to a country that is right hand drive it would take a bit of getting used too.
Ive never operated either machine but from seeing this the backhoe looks easier to me. Like the big moves are on the same lever less confusing to me.
Thanks for sharing @letsdig18 I didn't know that, which if I do remember right I think someone told me once but am not quite to sure though, cuz I thought before backhoes and excervters controls operates the same way, so I'll bet it does get confusing...lol but inerways again thanks for sharing. But good work.
Even with the unfamiliar pattern, you are 100 times better than me.
I may have run diggers, but it was in the 70's and it had wires.
I like the four stick setup myself. Not sure if that's a Case exclusive thing or not. John deere makes a great backhoe, though. I'd sooner run an excavator before a backhoe either way. Cheers.
Good operators can run both on anything 😏 so I was told anyway. I still prefer cat though. I actually think most newer machines have a little valve you can turn to change between them depending on your preference.
That's not true most people can only run whatever they learned on I consider myself a good operator I've been running machines for almost 30 years and I can only run on cats style most new machines like newer than early 2000s do have a valve and it's very easy to switch to either pattern
I don't think I've ever met anyone who can easily switch back and forth to either pattern it is very hard to run a machine that is opposite the pattern you used to trust me I've tried it many times
@@jamescoli3209 yeah I've tried it too its difficult. But I haven't been in a piece of equipment for a while so maybe if I started on deere controls if i get back to it I'd be ok. Skid steers too something he didnt mention here I drove a JD one once and you could toggle the joysticks. That was hard to try and run usually I have one stick for machine movement and one for boom/bucket but you could change it to where both sticks did movement and one side did boom other side bucket. Crazy all computerized stuff too. I'm not a big fan of electric over hydraulic either not as responsive if you're trying to shake stuff out
@@angrytrucker3628 yeah everything's electric over hydraulic now most Bobcats you run the bucket with your feet and you drive with your hands that's all I'm used to running a bobcat but I have ran a bobcat the other way too where you use your hands to drive and for the bucket I don't have much experience in a Bobcat with I don't own one I mostly run excavators bulldozers and front end loaders but the first machine I learned on was a Case 580 backhoe loader with the five sticks in the back to run the backhoe I was driving one of those when I was 5 years old my dad owns equipment
@@jamescoli3209 I run JD controls on my excavator and my backhoe. I get fatigued fast trying to operating cat controls with any accuracy and efficiency.
I'm use to backhoe control in excavator I've tryed excavator patron I just get it confused.
I learned ISO/cat once when I had to operate a 325 that had fixed plumbing. First few stump pulls were ugly, after an hour or so I got the hang of it. By end of first day I was pretty fluid, but not as comfortable as SAE/deere pattern.
I learned to run backhoe on an international harvester with 4 sticks so going to a Ford 4 valve is no problem and going to a case 3 lever with foot swings is also no problem. They all put the boom control in the right hand and stick in the left. So when I get on a two stick, the iso controls work best.
On almost any other type of machine you get on the boom control will be in the right hand.
Except for the small places an excavator can go, the backhoe seems superior.
Only machine I’ve logged many hours on was an old International backhoe from the mid 60s it has 6 levers 3 on each side of the seat.
Right side of the seat stabilizer swing and bucket
Left side of the seat stabilizer stick and boom.
Thank you for the great video Chris bet you could dig blindfolded.
Ha ha! Chris on mini in backhoe pattern looks like me on my trackhoe (ISO) after running John Deere controls on my mini. John Deere( backhoe) controls just feel/fit better for me.
I did enjoy very much. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos.
How are you at running the older style backhoe design, the ones with 4 levers?
dangerous
I remember the Deere Longreach video you did that had the backhoe pattern cleaning out that water channel. You were pretty rough in that. I been waiting for a video like this. Thanks Chris.
Its the same with me, I can run a backhoe with backhoe controls and an excavator with ISO controls, but can't do excavator with backhoe controls lol. I think it has something to do with the shape of the boom. Excavator booms are more curved than a backhoe and that makes it behave differently.
Just like anything in life, practice makes perfect or at least damn close to perfect.
Thanks for the video.
I used to work with both cat and deere excavators had to learn both patterns. Never associated patterns with machine. Just get in and realize what pattern it is then run with it. Got pretty used to both patterns.
@@neilgelinas9926 That's the way to do it.
I've never used an excavator or a backhoe, but the backhoe controls seem to make more sense.
Any good on 4 lever and foot swing?
Man you can really run that Excavator like a champ !!!
16 years and I hate changing patterns 😁. Excavator or ISO pattern I can get things done in less than half the time using the backhoe pattern. I would rather run joystick than a wobble stick any day. Wobble stick I have to think about every move and the joystick is just an extension of my hands with out even thinking about it. Digging up high pressure gas lines is better done with the equipment you are more comfortable operating.
You are an honest man Chris, you are noticeably a bit off on the second part!!!
3s
I grew up operating backhoe as a kid when my Dad had his company and I was taught on Deere. Now I'm older and love Cat controls, but I can still operate Deere controls, just not my preference. Something about using my left hand to Swing and my right hand to Boom up seems to make hogging dirt faster for me.
Anyone know WHY the multiple versions?
Was there some patent or something that caused the need for it?
JD pattern would drive me nuts by the way. And the old school 3 spool valves OMG
Wow essential Craftsman preview video wow!!!!! Pretty cool
I've operated excavators that much that I can see theres such wonderfully smooth hydraulics on that Yanmar💪💪
I have learned the backhoe pattern is what I'm used too. Guess you could learn the track hoe pattern if you used it alot.
It’s actually a really simple fix. Switch the hoses at the spool block assembly. My Case Backhoe is the same as an excavator.
Growing up my old man had 2 bit construction company. He would borrow or his brother would leave is Dyna Hoe 19 at our hobby farm which was the construction lot. I use to spend hours and days in the peat bog digging duck ponds. That old Dyna Hoe had 4 controls, one thing nice it would do 2 functions at one time, then he demoed a Case 480 I think it was the same as the old Dyna Hoe. I love the Dyna Hoe, I think it had a Detroit Diesel in it and the exhaust and sound where different and I loved them both. Then he found an old junk Massey Ferguson Back that he cobbled together, it had the 4 sticks but could not do 2 functions bring the stick in and bring the boom up or curl the bucket. Hated that thing.
I am 67 years old and retired I've ran John Deere rubber tire backhoes since 1972. And in my era when Cat came out with the two stick control it was backwards from John . Deere had the original two stick control and cat just had a fuck everything up and decide to change it. Most excavators before that time were more like the case backhoes of that time and then had either a foot swing in three levers or four levers to run an excavator that was the common. John Deere came out with a 2 lever control before anybody else came out with it.cat had to turn it around which to this day I still can't run a goddamn cat trackhoe or for that matter a cat backhoe well for that matter a case backhoe. When you start to run one thing it becomes that you only look at the teeth of the bucket and your arms your hands automatically do what your eyes are seeing or what your eyes are telling them to do. I admire somebody that can run several type of controls but anyway is my day cat was backwards when they came out with the two stick controls John Deere was the common two sticks that's when they started making backhoes they continued on keeping their pattern and everybody else follows caterpillar after caterpillar changed it around so that's how everything got all screwed up in that direction. If you ask me the John Deere's makes more sense common the left hand runs the boom up and down and to each side makes you turn right or left so that's all connected together you go over to your right hand your stick goes out we push it out and it comes in when you pull it in you don't you go to the push it to the right and to the left you curl the bucket now you can combine those all together and make it nice smooth pattern the caterpillar screwed it up far as I'm concerned they put the boom and what the bucket on the left side and a swing in the Dipper it just doesn't make sense it doesn't go follow the dots you're separating the sequence of how the thing is put together swing boom Dipper and bucket one man's opinion that doesn't count anymore because he doesn't work anymore LOL
Backhoes I learned on were the same as yours but the Cat 311B Excavator I ran had the swing and bucket changed. Boom and Dipper were left and right respectively.
You should try the old Case 4 stick TLB, Thats what I learned on Then moved on to a Cat 235 excavator and I thought I was in heaven. That was back in the 70`s. I`m retired now but you bring back a lot of memories Thanks. I worked mostly on sewers and water mains building subdivisions in Ontario Canada. Again thanks for the memories.
Really good vid... will help new operators a lot. I started with backhoe controls and even up to 800T machines this was the pattern to use because having slew and boom together made it possibe to use the radio with a free hand. It wasn't until I had to use a machine with excavator pattern that I couldn't change which forced me to learn the excavator pattern but glad I did. Still takes half hour to switch comfortably though.
I only have like an hour of practice on both and whenever I switched from an excavator to a backhoe I was always confused why something didn’t feel right. It makes sense now
Thanks, Chris....It's as clear as the mud at the bottom of the big pond you just finished with. Fortunately, whereas you are an artist with the machines. I would be the first patient at the Massachusetts Institute for the mechanically Inept/Stupid. Thank God I never had to earn a living working with machines. I can praise you and Timmy, and mean every word of it; and also enjoy watching your videos, which I most certainly do, every day. Thank you.
Its just a mental game on why u can't ran the excavator on JD pattern, u would probably struggle on a backhoe with excavator controls
I have ran mini-ex for 14 yrs and I prefer the stick on my right hand and boom on my left.
Excellent video,
Which machine do you prefer for a particular job?
Nice video, instructive.
Someday get me to tell you about my brief and frustating work with a 1955, Gallian "Grade-O-Matic". Talk about trash, in a far away land.
Chris....what I'd like to see is a side by side of what the excavator is doing and how you manipulate the controls to get it to do it. Your ability on using the controls to get dirt moved is impressive. I've recently got a small "Orange" KX040 excavator and it drives me crazy trying to figure out how to bring the bucket back level using the dipper and boom controls.
I learned on the three stick and pedals for swing.
Both patterns seem logical.
I was taught to think about hand placement. Pilot controls are always ISO to me, and wobble sticks are SAE.
I drive an -18 Doosan Dx235 lcr-5 and tracking forward with the pedals on that one is with the drive motors in the back and idlers in front of you haha.
I've trained myself to run both. Here in the north it seems everyone runs either. Instead of digging for valves or crying for the lines to be switched I just dealt with it. After growing up running a gradall with 4 straight sticks foot swing with no brake and a screaming detroit sitting on a wooden crate.. I'm just happy to have arm rest controls.. like the videos big guy.
beautiful video nice work
Great video. I'm a homeowner looking to build our retirement home, w/basement next year. Do you have a preference for a backhoe i.e., Cat, Case Volvo, John Deere? I favoring the Cat 420F2 IT, or the Case 580SM. Thanks.
We have a JD 35D mini excavator with excavator and backhoe controls. Half of us run excavator and the other half runs backhoe. Always having to switch back and forth.
We’ve got one too and it’s a pain in the ass to switch because you need to turn off the machine to use the key to unlock the door!
Thank you!