So is God to protect *ALLLLL* believers? Just who is getting their heads lopped off? You do realize, that 1/4 of the world's population will be killed off by the time the 6th seal is opened, don't you? The scripture tells us that we (the church) are kept *FROM* the hour of trial, not kept safe DURING or while going THROUGH it.
I'll sometimes look at Exodus. The Israelites were still in Egypt during the 10 plagues but we know that God protected them during that time. The Scripture is clear that during at least some of the plagues, God kept them from affecting the a Israelites.
Think about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Jesus did what he promises us. Be "there" with them. Get them through it. Not remove them from it. This is where my hope lies, for end times. Not in a rapture.
@@shelterdog31 The Jews God protects through the Great Trib are a type of Noah and come through alive to the Millennium, but The Bride of Christ, what an unfathomable love He has for His Church, which is a type of Enoch: Hebrews 11:5 KJV By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
@@shelterdog31 No one knows if its post or pre. Either way no one knows the hour the commandments are still the same and no one on earth can save us. Salvation is through the Lord Jesus Christ no matter what people want to believe. All believers should pray for the will of the father and let it be that. I do not believe people who believe in pre tribulation are going to loose salvation if it doesn't happen, they may be sad but the Lord said no one can pluck them from my hand. They will not be fooled by satan.
The Tribulation is the Time of "Jacob's Trouble" (Jer 30:7) so it's sure NOT to protect the "Israelites".... It's time to TEST them.... and the Church is gone and no reason to test her.... - (Rev 3:10/see also that the Rapture is .... "But of that day and that knoweth no man"...Mark 13:32). It ... there are no pre-conditions to happen before the Rapture. (...unless you think it's appropriate for the Bridegroom (Christ) to take his Bride (Christians) into the 7 years of horror for their HONEYMOON! The horror begins in Rev 6... when the wrath of the Lamb "is come!" says verses 16,17.
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. John 15:18-20 NKJV I agree with Dr. Brown and others that the PreTrib Rapture is a false teaching. Short answer for me is like Dr. Brown if you spend time in the Word, you will not find a PreTrib Rapture. You can only find it after someone teaches it to you or walks you through it. Anyone can be "Solo Raptured" today if they die and stand before the Lord. Darby and Scofield and the history of the teaching reveals even more truth about it. And it is predominantly taught is the US and western churches. I cant imagine in countries where they are facing death for their faith in Christ this teaching would be believable. In my opinion this creates a false gospel that perpetuates easy believism, escapism and is a plague in the church similar to the "Sinners Prayer". JESUS said make disciples not converts, pick up your cross and follow Him.(Matthew 16:24) Narrow is the gate and difficult is the way that leads to life and there are few who find it (Matthew 7:14). May no one divide over this. God bless you all!
Jesus said he went to prepare a place for us. And if he goes to prepare a place for us then he will come back for us to bring us unto him. Where does the post trib leave room for this verse? When would I get to see that mansion if Jesus comes and raptures us to conquer the world and create his millenial kingdom? I am also curious if you think Jesus didn't understand the tradition Hebrew wedding when claiming us to be his bride? I am also curious why the church suffers through the last week of Daniel but was not established in the first 69? Why is is that tribulation is called "Jacob's trouble"? And who is Jacob in the Bible? Israel Why is it that the church is not mentioned through the wrath of God in tribulation throughout Revelation? Why does the book of Revelation say that certain Churches will be SPAIRED FROM THE HOUR OF TRIAL THAT CONSUMES THE WHOLE EARTH? Why not just say endure? This is just scratching the surface of the pre trib rapture belief. I disagree with this video completely and think that you come to these conclusions by a lack of spirit and insight from God. I do know that your eschatology does not save you though... simply rewards will be given to those who understand the Word of God.
The Thessalonians were facing such heavy persecution that they started to believe judgement day - the day of the Lord had arrived. What scared and puzzled them was that Paul had previously encouraged them that Christ would soon snatch them out of this world PRIOR to that day. He then had to write to them to correct this so they would remain encouraged. Therefore, if Paul had any doubt that the rapture could occur after the start of the tribulation, his epistle becomes irrelevant and illogical. The purpose of the 70th week is to bring judgment to an unrepentant world and bring Israel to salvation. Our judgement has already been laid upon Christ at the cross. To even imply that we still need to go through some judgment, either partially or totally, is blasphemy to the perfect redemption plan of God at calvary
@@wserthmar8908Pre- trib is wrong Revelation 20:4-6 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and Holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. As you can read this is the FIRST FIRST FIRST RESURRECTION. And Christian were fighting against mark of the beast.
"As in the Days of Noah..." (Luke 17:26-10) What can we learn from the Days of Noah? 1. The wicked had no clue what was about to happen, while the righteous (Noah and family) knew and were prepared. 2. Judgment and salvation occur on the same day. The very day Noah and family were sealed in the ark, the rain fell. And "As in the days of Lot...", the very day Lot and family were guided out of Sodom, fire fell on the wicked. Read about the 6th Seal (Rev 6:12 - 7:17) and consider the possibility that Christ's return, the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the rapture of the saints all happen on the same day... the day that the sun turns black and Jesus appears in the clouds. Consider also that the breaking of the 7th Seal (Rev 8:1-6) is the beginning of God's wrath and that the 6th Seal (salvation) and the 7th Seal (judgment) are broken on the same day.
When I think of the saints being martyred in end times, I immediately think of Stephen and his delight in being persecuted and murdered in the name of his Lord - how his face glowed by the Holy Spirit. He undoubtedly arrived to paradise with glory. I can only imagine the many saints during the tribulation that will be taken in similar manners during the great out-pouring of the Holy Spirit. In today's world we think worldly and not on eternal views. While dying in such a manner might seem horrific, its only a few moments in time, then comes great glory. Stay focused, be enduring in your faith and do not fear. The Lord promised that He would be with us through it all and the prize of crown(s) await.
The rapture and the second coming of Christ are often confused. Sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a scripture verse is referring to the rapture or the second coming. However, in studying end-times Bible prophecy, it is very important to differentiate between the two. The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16. The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows: 1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14). 2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10). 3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41). 4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30). 5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6-18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54). Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct? 1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10). 2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent-there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30). 3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6-19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation-also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)-God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31). The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.
The church is all over the book of revelation. Not sure which book you’re reading, but the book of Revelation is a huge description of the churches role in the tribulation
I have never been able to find the scriptural basis for a “secret rapture”. Unexpected? Yes. Sudden? Certainly. Secret? I don’t know the contextual verse or verses that clearly (without inference) show it.
@@Joel-dl1mx for the record, there's no such thing as the Secret Rapture because the Secret Rapture is a myth! Except for the real rapture we and others need to see with our own eyes 👀
Jesus said a LOT of things, but He never said He's coming for the church AFTER the tribulation. You've _s k i p p e d_ and skated thru an entire chapter to draft THREE words from a passage where you've not even taken the time to establish the CONTEXT. You're guilty of contextomy brother.
@elizabethramirez2517 You're resorting to defining WORDS on your own terms it seems, 'eh? Just like Mr Bill Clinton when his sin was found out, & in his interrogation he said, "It depends on what the meaning of *IS* is". Look, we could ask a GRADE SCHOOL child if there's a difference between coming *FOR,* & coming *WITH,* & they would u/stand. At the RAPTURE, Christ does NOT...I repeat, does *NOT* "_c o m e_" all the way to earth, however @ the *2nd* coming, He DOES "come" to earth. There's the coming *FOR* the saints & the rapture, & coming *WITH* the saints @ the 2nd coming. If there's no rapture that precedes the "COMING" to earth, & He only "COMES" @ what we point to as the 2nd advent, then there are a *HOST* of things that can't be reconciled with the Word. Some of the _MANY_ things that scenario has problems with... *1* You literally get *John 14:3* sdrawkcab & TwiStEd, for the verse makes quite clear, that @ the rapture, WE go to where HE is...He's not coming to where WE are. HE receives us...WE don't receive Him. *2* Both the marriage & the Bema take place in heaven, & having ONLY a 2nd coming where there's no RAPTURE in advance, you're literally scrubbing HEAVEN from the believer's future. Like I say, there's a *HOST* of other issues with a "POST-trib" rapture position, but hey...all the best to you in your search for truth, & *MARANATHA!*
2:43. No, it is not one event. Matthew 24:39-31 and 1st Thessalonians 4:16-18 are not the same event. They are different in context. Matthew 24 is in reference to the Redemption of Israel. When the Son of Man descends directly down to the Mount of Olives and executes the judgment of separating the wheat from the tares. 1st Thessalonians 4:16-18 is written to the Church, concerning the resurrection and our meeting Jesus in the air. Matthew 24:29-31 is separate from 1st Thessalonians 4:17. Who is speaking? Who are they speaking to? The contexts are different. It’s not complicated
Ppl of God let's live "rapture" ready. Whether it be pre, mid or post...watch therefore because you do not know the hour when our Lord shall come/return Matthew 24vs 42🙏
No one knows the truth for pre tribulation or post either way the commandments are the same. Salvation is through the Lord Jesus Christ and no one one earth can save you.
Actually, the very mission Jesus gives the Church is to save sinners by giving them God's grace (Mark 16:15). Read carefully.... "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." (1 Tim 4:16)
The saving is saving from the second death not being saved from this planet ...Jesus prays to his father a nice long prayer about- protecting the disciples.. I don't pray that you take out of the world but keep them from the evil..
I don't think you are right about this. First of all Paul talks about judgement here. Focus is Christ's coming for his righteous takeover. That is why Paul makes such a complex scentence. He just does not define how much earlier the rapture/gathering happens and clearly he describes Christ's glorious coming with saints for the judgement of unrighteous ... I stay with pre-tribulation stand. Judgement of saints= rapture/gathering, judgement of unrighteous = second coming in glory and fire... if you put them in same scentence because of focus on judgement it does not mean they happen at the same time... God bless you and keep you! 🔥😎👍
He does define it . He says you who are troubled receive your rest WHEN THE LORD IS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS IN FLAMING FIRE TAKING VENGEANCE ON THOSE WHO KNOW NOT GOD....that's what it says WHEN he says when clearly .
@@bentonvillefamily Yes! Spot on brother! Like many erroneous teachings, the post-tribulation rapture fails in its lack of distinction between Israel and the Church.
@@bentonvillefamily the problem with that question is that it takes away any meaning to those Paul was writing to. We have to understand it in light of the context of the letter and authorial intent.
If the pre-trib rapture is so clearly taught by the Bible, why is it that nobody but nobody taught it until 200 years ago? When you read the writings of the early Church Fathers, you will find that every one of them who wrote about the end times taught post-trib rapture.
You are mistaken about the early church fathers and their position...if THAT is what you're banking on to support and validate your position. Regardless, the closed canon (bible), needs to be our final authority. But as far as early church believers go, most all of them taught a *PRE* tribulation position, not a post position. Consider these... "You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then you prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord *it will be possible for you to escape it* if your heart be pure and spotless, and you spend the rest of the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly" (from the The Shepherd of Hermas). Irenaeus wrote in his treatise, _Against Heresies_ the following... "Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance - in fact, as nothing; so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, *when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this* it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.* For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption". Ephraim the Syrian who lived from 306-373 in a work titled _On The Last Times 2_ said, "Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” *For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world* because of our sins." Shalom
@@raedradha6403 I spoke of *THREE* yet you're referring to "A" person(?). Either way, who are you trying to fool, because your comment is flat out logically fallacious. Should you want a list of *OTHERS* who will validate & support a *PRE-tribulation* rapture, let me know...ugh, better yet, a cursory search will net you with a number of them. And if you want to pass over early church leaders, there are *PLENTY* of folks that can be listed who made their mark *PRIOR* to 200 years ago like the other poster stated. Better yet... It is the closed canon of scriptures that are used so substantiate the position...I don't know what you use to fall back on, as you've only offered an objection with nothing to prop up what it is you believe. Cheers~~~:)
@@Kman.I suggest you get a more rounded view by researching this, THE RAPTURE IN TWENTY CENTURIES OF BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION - The Master's Seminary tms.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/tmsj13e.pdf
Dr. Brown, I agree with you on a lot of things, however this is one thing that I would have to disagree with you on. While not explicitly stated in the scripture, we can infer from the Old Testament that God's unchanging. While the world was flooded, he called out Noah to save him, while Lot was in the midst of Sodom and Gammorah, God called him to leave. All throughout the Old Testament you see the people of God taken out of what they would consider their tribulations BEFORE the punishment was given. Since God is unchanging, we could assume that that day of wrath is not reserved for Bible Believing Christians. One verse that comes to mind is Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Christ declaring that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE shows that it would be impossible for this to occur. If that's the case, would that mean that the elect are no longer here to be deceived? Again, you've studied this far more than I have, and I'm not just going to wait around for a Rapture to happen because that's not what Christ has called us to do. Again, I love the dialogues that you share, and look forward to more in the coming future.
The Church is not a type of Noah (saved through to continue on the earth), we're a type of Enoch (which explains the Rapture of the Church). Hebrews 11:5 KJV By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
@@cjpark5748 @cj park Can you be one of those brought through alive? The Jews God supernaturally protects for 3.5 years in Israel and brings through alive to the Millennium (a type of Noah) will first believe the Anti-Christ is the Messiah. You already know the A.C is Satan. Church Age Believers (a type of Enoch) will be completely spared from Jacob's trouble and return to earth with Jesus after a 7-year Marriage Supper. How does the Church go up in a post Trib Rapture AFTER we come down from Heaven with Him? We will be unaffected by the Millennium or the 2nd Resurrection. We already have eternal life. Hebrews 11:5 KJV By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
God is unchanging in character but it doesnt mean He cant change the way He does things because we cannot always predict what God will do next, that is His mystery, but we can always predict who He will always will be.
@@buckle-upbuttercup9345 still doesn't make sense. Enoch wasn't in tribulation or suffering at the time. Enoch was just a special case. Noah was in tribulation and he preached to those people to change just like Believers today are supposed to preach.
I grew up in a church that taught the pre-tribulation Rapture. The more I have studied the Bible myself, after spending time away from the Lord and the Church as a season of being a prodigal daughter, I have come to the same conclusion as you, Dr Brown.
I too stepped aside from teachers and everything going on in the visible church. When I started reading again, thats when you see the scriptures in the light of truth, even tho I dont totally have a full picture, I know that I will be here if God wills, to be His witness to the people around me in the great tribulation hour.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The New Covenant: Bob George th-cam.com/video/Rj7NQffg_NE/w-d-xo.html
The context here is the wrath of man associated with persecution. The Tribulation is the wrath of God and it’s an hour of testing for the unbelievers (“dwellers of the earth.”) Two very different things! Context context context. Context is king.
How does one explain this scripture Jesus will receive us to Himself, and not us to receive Him (John 14:2-3). Jesus said He would prepare a place for the Church in heaven, and then He would come again to receive us to Himself. Why would Jesus prepare a place for us in heaven and then not take us there? At the Rapture, He will come to receive us to Himself, "that where I am (heaven), there you may be also." If the Rapture occurred at the same time as the Second Coming, we would go up to the clouds and then immediately come back to earth. That would contradict John 14:2-3. Rapture Jesus doesn’t come to earth we meet Him in the Air... second coming is when we come down here with Him to rule with Him And how does one explain Jesus returns from the wedding. When Jesus returns to earth at the Second Coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the Rapture, Jesus is married to His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth. I believe Rapture and the second coming are two different events. The reason being just because one believes in a Pre-Trib or Post-Trib rapture does not make it a false doctrine. What is important is you must be ready to be raptured when Jesus comes , or endure the tribulation...at whatever point He comes.
Products are "prepared" in country A and shipped off or delivered to country B all the time. The new Jerusalem will DESCEND from Heaven to the new Earth... Rev. 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God... I hope that helps!
Because, generally speaking, it's the most lukewarm as represented by the church of Laodicea: Rev. 3 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
The bible tells the exact time when the rapture takes place, and it takes place during the tribulation and to be specific during the 4th trumpet of God, just read the verses below and you will see that they are part of the same story, the rapture and the 4th trumpet of God, mic dropped. Matthew 24:29-31 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Revelation 8:12-13 The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened, and a third of the day might be kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night. Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!” 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
@Anninos Christoforou The great falling away comes before the tribulation that is the beginning .... I think if pre trib is wrong then the people who believe it will focus on the Lord and know what is going on. I honestly don't know what's the truth about the rapture and I think its an area that both has valid scripture proof and believes. I will point out that salvation is through Jesus Christ and those who know him can not be deceived. So don't be so quick to throw out doctrine of devil's when its a minor disagreement. What where Jesus most important commandments?
The ministry at my local church does get everything right (Salvation through Jesus, walking like Jesus Christ, etc.) EXCEPT the Tribulation, they from time to time warn about the pre-trib rapture whenever they do gospel seminars, but I'm now convinced about the post-tribulation... should I say something to my brothers and sisters there? God bless
There's a reason why Jesus said these words in Matthew 24. To encourage us to endure during the last days, not for any "escape "/"pre-rapture". I believe Jesus' words stand the test of time & are to be trusted💯 4 Jesus told them, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, 5 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah.’ They will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and threats of wars, but don’t panic. Yes, these things must take place, but the end won’t follow immediately. 7 Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world. 8 But all this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come. 9 “Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers.[b] 10 And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. 11 And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. 12 Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. So whenever in doubt, do the safest thing, believe in what the Bible says. Read also what Paul says in Acts 14:22
Question #1: If the rapture occurs at the second coming, who will populate the millennium? According to the post-tribulation rapture theory, at the second coming all Christians will receive resurrected bodies and all lost people go to the lake of fire. Who will be left to repopulate the world during the millennium? Because people in their resurrected bodies can’t reproduce (Matt. 22:30), it will require people in their natural bodies. (Answer: These are people saved after the rapture.)
That is not correct. The post-tribulationist does not believe that. The only ones thrown into the lake of fire are the beast and the false prophet. And clearly those who will die at that time are those who are present for the war against Israel. Not everyone will go to fight against them nor is everyone marked by the beast, the Bible does not say that. So it still fits perfectly with the biblical narrative. In Zechariah it indicates that one must go up to worship, and whoever does not do so will not have provision. That gives us an image that even with Jesus as king there will be people who will prefer not to follow him, in fact in the final attack of Satan after the thousand years says that his army will be large. The bible speaks then of a large population in the world. I don't see the contradiction, based on the fact that argument in itself is not part of the belief.
Certainly Dr Brown has a handle on a number of bible subjects/doctrines, but I'll have to agree to disagree with him on this one. Now, while he uses *II Thess 1:5-8* as a _strong_ passage to support his position, it doesn't afford time for the sheep/goat separation found in *Matt 25,* nor does it allow time for the Judgment Seat of Christ that is found in *II Cor **5:10**.*
Matthew 25 is about unbelievers being taken away, not believers. Just as in Noah's day, the believers remained, and the unbelievers were swept away. So this is the opposite of a rapture. Also what does the 2 Cor passage have to do with a rapture? I'm not following your argument here
@@BuildingApologetics As far as *II Cor **5:10* goes, I u/stand this to have taken place *PRIOR* to the 2nd coming, as the rapture and the 2nd coming are TWO DISTINCT events, & they're not rolled into one like the position that Dr Brown holds to. I find that to be supported by *Rev 19:7* where it says, that when Christ DOES return _WITH_ his bride, the bride is *"READY".* I take that to mean, that if they're "READY", the Bema Seat has already taken place: "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and HIS WIFE HATH MADE HERSELF READY". With the rapture/2nd coming being a single event, there would be no time for that judgment to have taken place.
The Book of revelation chapter 5:9 and they sang a new song saying You are worthy to take the scroll and to open the seals For You were slain And have redeemed us to God By Your Blood out of every tribe and tongue and People and Nation. Out Here we find people of every tribe and tongue and nation before the throne room of God. Even before the Beginning of Tribulation we find people out of every tribe and tongues and nations. Even before the seals and the scrolls are open we find ourselves in Heaven. We are there before the throne and singing Jesus You are worthy to open the scrolls and seals. If we are not in heaven before the Tribulation begins in Chapter 6 then who are these People mentioned in Chapter 5?? In chapter 4:4 we find 24 elders 12 from the old Testament and 12 are the 12 disciples of Christ. So if there is the mention of 12 elders then we also will be there. Because inorder for the 12 elders to be in Heaven they have to be raised from the dead. As Jesus said the dead in Christ will rise first so the 12 elders will rise and caught up in the air with us. The Book of Revelation is progressive. Firstly we find the Church and the letters written to the Churches. Jesus also said to the Church of philadelphia that He would keep them out of the hour of trial that will come upon the whole earth. Jesus also said in the Gospel that we ought to watch and Pray that we would be counted worthy to escape all these things the Tribulations. In Revelation 4:1 John heard a Shout from heaven come up. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, what's is the Shout?? The Shout is come up. John heard that shout come up before the Tribulation. The Book of Thessalonians also tells us that we are not appointed for the day of wrath(7 years Tribulation) Jesus said I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not Prevail against it. The Church is hindering for the Antichrist to be revealed and so unless the Church is removed the antichrist will not be revealed. These are only some of the Biblical proof through which I believe in Pre-tribulation Rapture. Now here is another Proof. Jesus said no one knows the time of His coming not the angles, not even He Himself, but only the Father. So if Rapture happens after the Tribulation we will certainly be able to say or point out a out about His coming. And there is another thing that I would like to point out, and that is we have the second Coming of Christ and no third coming. When we talk about the second coming or the coming of Christ we talk about His coming on the earth. His first coming on the earth was 2000 years ago and His second coming will be after the Tribulation according to the Book of revelation. So lastly Just look up to revelation chapter 4:4 where we find the 12 elders which obviously they have to be Raptured and Revation chapter 5:9,10 where we find People out of every tribe and tongue and nation redeemed by the Blood of Jesus and all of these before the throne of God the 12 elders and People out of every tribe and tongue and Nations. All of these appear before even the seals and scrolls are opened. Does this not tell us that Rapture happens before the Tribulation?? It does. I thank God that He helped me see this from the Scripture. And This is the Bible Proof on why I believe in Pre Tribulation Rapture
@@rickylimbu3668 I think you need to follow up your scriptures to Revelation 7 to see the sealing of God's servants who are still on the Earth. You are not more special to escape tribulations when the early Church themselves faced it.
@@skylightoutdoors7374 Not necessarily true Jordan..[ I am 73 and have studied eschatology for over 40 years].Evangelism instructor, sunday school teacher, [ many courses in Bible college.....multiple secular Univ. degrees]..the truth or proof of any biblical doctrine will be exposed in your exegesis and hermeneutics, even using the same scriptures to support opposing sides of the argument. That is the reason that we have the Calvinism versus Armenian debate, the present work of the Holy Spirit in the cessation/ non cessation debate and a multitude of lesser important doctrines. I am still on the fence with the pre or post trib doctrine as the Lord has not chose to positively prove me to either side. What He has done is convince me that it is imperative that we be ready and willing to undergo any amount of persecution as He deems necessary and that we get the Gospel out to all who will listen, receive and respond as time is growing short ![ Of that, we should have little doubt.] If we are prepared...the pre/post trib argument does not really matter..I am going to ask the Lord why... was it so difficult for us to understand the truth of the main doctrines that Have divided the Church over time? That is the bigger question to me...I am so happy that the Lord made the Gospel of Jesus Christ simple enough for us to understand and respond...yes we can even argue the finer points of soteriology but God's plan of Redemption is a guiding light onto our feet. Maranatha...see you in Glory..db
1)Direct proofs of pre-trib rapture: -> Rev 3:10, Luke 21:34-36, All of Rev chapter 12 -> The first two references are obvious but the strongest proof is found in Rev 12. The Woman is the church. The firstborn caught up tp heaven are the saints in the chuch who will be raptured. The Woman after giving birth is still the church but is now the "left behind" church. 2)Refutation for Dr.Browns argument from 2 Thess 1:5-8: -> Even pre-trib rapture does not disagree that the second coming will be the redemption of all saints and final victory over satan. After all during the rapture only some saints who are found sinless before God when he comes a theif will be taken up. -> Also even after the pre-trib rapture satan will still be around, so even the raptured saints will be eagerly awating to come down to with the LORD during his second coming to see GOD's vengance and victory over the anti-christ, false prophet, satan and their believers -> In short: Even in pretrib rapture doctrine it makes perfect sense that the second coming is the final redemption not the rapture 3)Refutation for the best argument against pre-trib: -> The strongest counter-argument for the pre-trib rapture is Matt 24:29-31.Thats because during the second coming (after the rapture) there will be a gathering of belivers all over the world to meet Christ for Armageddon/Second Coming. During this gathering there wont be glorification of the body because those who pass through the 7 year tribulation are the only ones left to enter the 1000 year rule of christ where there will still be death (Isaiah 65:20), so if there is no glorification in this gathering than it is not the rapture (1 Thess 4:15-18) but is merely to transport all the saints of God still on Earth to meet the LORD Jesus and his Saints who come down with him (some of whom will be the rapture saints) like God had transported Philip supernaturally in Acts 8:38-40. -> Now if you still are not convinced about Matt 24:29-31 not being the rapture, its actually part of a teaching the LORD gave about the end times and it's present in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. Now this is important because Luke 21 contains one of the direct pre-trib rapture proofs (Luke 21:34-36) Matt 24:29-31 is repeated in Luke 21:25-28 AND AFTER Jesus talks about this gathering at the second coming he later mentions how we can escape all these things, i.e. the sufferings of the Great Tribulation, in Luke 21:34-36. So these two are different events Edit: I apologise to everyone who replied to me since I heavily added to my comment and you guys probably replied before you saw 2) and 3), although the original comment i made in 1) is still unchanged
Revelation 3:10 Is not pre tribulation rapture proof . Because you have kept my commandments I will keep you from the hour of trial . " KEEP BY THE WAY HAS MULTIPLE DEFINITIONS , PRESERVE, PROVIDE SUSTENANCE FOR AND MORE .....Anyways those that keep the commandments are kept .....but in revelation 12 war is being waged on those that keep the commandments of God . Interesting but sure whatever helps you sleep at night
Ankith Devanaboina Interesting 🧐 like a hybrid view of the two... it kind of makes sense when you think about the parable of the wise and unwise virgins. Bith groups are still virgins yet one was prepared and the other wasn’t... it als kind of makes sense when you think about Jesus addressing the churches at the beginning of Revelation.. only one group is kept from the “hour of temptation”. I assume the others that he addresses are not kept
@@skylightoutdoors7374 Yea you are right that "keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world" could possibly mean that we are kept through the tribulation not kept outside of the tribulation. Now you actually proved yourself that the best interpretation is kept outside of the tribulation because those who are in the tribulation will still be martyred even though they are faithful to God! What do you think about Luke 21:34-36 Brother?
@@superjam18 Im not sure why you call it a hybrid view. In pre-trib rapture view it's always the case that we have both the rapture and second coming. Maybe you are talking about the fact that just like there is a gather in the rapture there is also a SEPERATE gathering during the second coming which is not the rapture? edit: accidentally wrote post trib rapture view when I meant to say pre-trib rapture view
Show me one verse that says we’ll be raptured before the tribulation. I can show you a verse that says immediately after the tribulation of those days.
@@BeingConsciousness-yw3zw LOL...the "CHALLENGE" is it? No disrespect, but hey...we all know what verse you're speaking of *SMH* There's no silver bullet, ONE VERSE that supports either position, but allow me to weigh in if I may... 1st off, for you to just try and snatch *THREE WORDS* from the bible that happen to be consecutive ("after the tribulation), makes you guilty of pulling s/thing from scripture *OUT OF CONTEXT* to try to support what it is you believe. The argument is actually quite weak, & worn out...easy to refute once you put it in context & u/stand just what it's speaking about. Number "NEXT"... If you're wanting *ONE* verse to support a *PRE-tribulation* rapture, there's actually a few, but here... *Rev 3:10* provides ample support for the position where it states, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." I don't mind sharing what I believe the verse to mean (if you're not familiar), but if you know of the verse and are wanting to fire back and say, "That's not proof!" or s/thing along those line, please...go ahead and take a stab at sharing why the verse does *NOT* support a *PRE-tribulation* rapture, and offer up your explanation of the verse at the same time :)
@@Kman. Rev 3:10 has no mention of the word tribulation, or anything about a rapture in this verse. You're reading that verse with a preconceived idea. Temptation does not equal tribulation. The Bible does not relate (even symbolically) the tribulation to 1 hour. Revelation 14:7 which takes place after the antichrist making war with the saints says "Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the HOUR of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." So Rev 3.10 could be referring to the hour of God's wrath coming. By the way, it says "is come" which would indicate that it had not come before that time. The tribulation is not God's wrath, it's the antichrist making war the saints (Christians) Look at every mention of the word "hour" in Revelation. It's always related to God's wrath poured out on the wicked world AFTER the tribulation. Please take a King James Bible and align Matthew 24:5-31 with Revelation 6 and you'll see that they match perfectly.
@@BeingConsciousness-yw3zw Your assumption is fallacious. Here... For you to say that *Rev 3:10* has no mention of the WORD "tribulation" is no argument at all. Must you see T-R-I-B-U-L-A-T-I-O-N spelled out for the verse to take on a what is clearly being described? The fact is, the WORD "rapture" is not found in the bible either, so again...that's no argument. You conveniently took a pass on explaining then just what the verse means and only stated, "That's not what it means". You're incorrect about the tribulation not being spoken of in different terms, when in *FACT* it's spoken of *NOT* just an "HOUR", but also a "DAY"...a "TIME"...a "PERIOD", and a "WEEK". I'm sure you're aware of the verses/passages that note the uses of those words, so that too takes the wind out of any argument (or lack thereof) you're wanting to suggest. You also made a truth statement ("The tribulation is not God's wrath..."), yet you stated such with *ZERO* supporting evidence. Again...do you have to read a verse that says, "Yes my beloved...the tribulation is the wrath of God" for you to see that it is? You would agree that when *GOD* flooded the earth, that that indeed was His "WRATH", right? Yet you won't find any verses using the word "WRATH" when it speaks of the flood. This further deflates any "argument" you're wanting to provide. But again... Take time to break down...unpack...exegete...speak to...or however you'd like to term it, but do so with *Reve **3:10* as opposed to basically saying, "It aint so" and just move on, because there is *MUCH* in the verse that can be opened up to enlighten you to the truth, that yes...we *WILL* be kept *FROM* a period of time known as the tribulation~~~:)
@@Kman. Please take a few minutes and read how Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 match up perfectly with Revelation 6 and prove a Post trib, pre wrath rapture Revelation 6: 1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. Matthew 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Mark 13: 5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: 6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Luke 21: 8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. Revelation 6: 3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. Matthew 24: 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: Mark 13: 7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. 8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: Luke 21: 9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. 10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: Revelation 6: 5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. Matthew 24: 7 and there shall be famines Mark 13: 8 and there shall be famines and troubles Luke 21: and famines Revelation 6: 7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Matthew 24: 7 and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. Mark 13: 8 and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. Luke 21: 11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. Revelation 6: 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Matthew 24: 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Mark 13: 9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Luke 21: 12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. 16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. 18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish. 19 In your patience possess ye your souls. Matthew 24: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (THE ELECT IS HERE FOR THE TRIBULATION) Mark 13: 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. Revelation 6: 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mark 13: 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. Luke 21: 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. Revelation 6: 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mark 13: 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. Luke 21: 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Revelation 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Dr Brown, If the rapture occurs at the second coming as you are suggesting how does the earth get repopulated during the millennial kingdom if all believers recieve their glorified bodies at the second coming? Do unsaved people enter into the millennial kingdom? If so what scripture supports this? Can people who have glorified bodies be given in marriage and bare children? If so what scripture supports this as well?
The bible teachers some believers will be gathered up and some will be left behind the ones who are left behind will repopulate the earth when Jesus sets his kingdom on earth and the ones who ate in heaven will be sent out to bring the Gospel un to the people remember just because you refuse the devils mark and hide in the woods doesn't mean u was a christian as not just christians gonna be hiding.
@@Trumpmakeliberalscryagian Just one problem your either a believer or an unbeliver there are no in-betweens now or then. If the rapture occurs at the second coming that would mean every believer that is alive on earth would recieve their glorified bodies. Unsaved people can not enter into the millennial kingdom john 3 3 says you must be born agian to see the kingdom of God and the millennial kingdom is God's kingdom on earth. Mathew 13 30 50 mathew 25 41 makes it very clear that the unsaved people that are alive on earth when jesus returns are cast into the lake of fire before the millennial kingdom begins. So if the rapture occurs at the second coming there is no way the earth gets repopulated during the millennial kingdom the only way the earth gets repopulated during the millennial kingdom is via a pre daniels 70th week catching away. The people who become born agian believers during daniels 70th week and survive to see Jesus return to earth are the sheep in the sheep and goat judgement they are born agian believers and still in their natural bodies and can be given in marriage and bare children. Its their children and grandchildren etc...who repopulate the earth.
@@tonyeaton671 if you look into revelation you can see that not all who believed in Jesus will be taken during the second coming as only a 3rd of each national will be taken And revelation also tells us those who worship and received the devils mark will be cast into hell then those who has not received the mark will live in peace for a thousand years while satan is in chains and God will send his priest out into the world to proclaim the words of God to those who was left behind for a thousand years until satan gets released for the last time to make war with Heaven and Earth.
Orthodoxy has taught and believed this for many, many years. Perhaps the most compelling argument against the pre/mid tribulation rapture theory is that no Christian believed it or even knew about it for the first 1800 years of Christianity. When it comes to Christianity, the “faith once delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3), there is simple rule: “if its new, it just can’t be true!”
What you said is flat out incorrect. A cursory search will yield much to deflate & debunk what you said. Either... *A* You've not studied up on the matter & you're just parroting what you've heard/read, or... *B* You know it to be incorrect & you're not honest about it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're just not researched it on your own.
This isn't hard folks. 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trumpet. Dr. Brown is correct. It's all one event. It's called The Day of the Lord.
Dr loved your teachings for years.....but this one is really a weak argument. That verse didn’t even speak of end times events .....sorry I’ll stick with Jesus on what he said ....we are not appoint to wrath, Jesus said as it was in Noah and Lot’s days so shall it be when He returns....all I know was this, not one rain drop fell on Noah he was lift above it and not one brimstone fell on lot’s head and Lot looked down on the destruction. Both were saved from it. I’ll see birth pains before Jesus comes but not His wrath.
Both Noah and Lot remained on the earth, but were saved from wrath. Neither were raptured/harpazo'd/caught up. Lot did not look down on the destruction, or he would have suffered the same fate as his wife.
@@nightday5080 Yes, we are not appointed to wrath.Also the antichrist must be revealed before the rapture and he does not show up at the end.He has a job to attack Israel.
But look at the Israelites, they were in Egypt when God brought the ten plagues. God kept them safe. God didn’t take them out until the plagues were over.
@@wem-c9f Christians will go through the tribulation and we must trust God to be safe but the Great Tribulation is when Christians will be killed for the faith.Then comes the cosmic signs before we are raptured.Tribulation period is satan doing the damage with God's consent like with Job.After the rapture Christians are gone up and God's wrath is poured out.
@Anninos Christoforou The "great falling away"? Are you wanting to use *II Thess 2:3* to support that position? I would argue o/wise. In addition to offering up a single verse to support what you said, could you please exegete the passage of scripture to validate that? I will take an alternate position.
I mostly agree but I am not sure completely. I think Christ returns in the clouds in 14:14-16 just before the seven last plagues. I am not sure I can reconcile the image of the sickle however instead of a trumpet except that no reason is given other than to harvest the souls on the earth BEFORE the second angel uses his sickle in the "great winepress of God". 1 Corinthians 15:52 says the rapture will take place at "the last trumpet". The last trumpet sounding in revelations is in chapter 9, so this trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 may not be listed in the revelations event and it is as you say, at the return of Christ to the earth, or it is in the analogy of the sickle. Either way we as Christians go through most of the tribulation or all of it. 1Thes 4:15-17 says we which "remain to the coming of the Lord" which I believe references remaining alive after most of the earths population has already died. I am just not convinced either way yet because the reference is meeting him in the clouds, not on earth. This is key... The second coming during the tribulation can be broken down into him coming in the clouds.. and then all the way to the earth.
@@burleyant274 I do not agree so lets look at it together. 1 Thes 4:14-17 15, For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord shall not precede them which are asleep. 16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. This is saying Christ has come back and is in the clouds. So if it was pretribulation is there going to be a third coming? I maintain this passage not only doesn't give credence to a pretribulation but adds more to credence for a his return after the 3.5 year (great tribulation but prewrath). So lets look at 1 Cor 15:51-55 51, Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53, For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54, So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55, O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory? Again... nothing in it puts this as pretribulation. In fact the very statement found in vs 52 tells us otherwise... it is the LAST trumpet.. not the first. If this is specific to the later days there are 6 trumpets that have to blow first per Revelation. I do not mean to disallusion you brother but we will have to go through at least part of the tribulation. We are no better than ANY martyr today in other countries who routinely stand on their faith on penalty of death. Our Lord was crucified and all the apostles but John were martyred. Why would we think that we are somehow better than they are? Math 24:29-31 is a trump card for the timing (and no.. this was not about the Jews. He was talking to his apostles who were messianic Jews. The elect are his believers who stand in the later days regardless of the cost. Vs 29 is AFTER the tribulation of those days and AFTER the sign of the coming of the Son of man in the clouds. 29, Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30, And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31, And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
@@burleyant274 I disagree. Nothing in those passages indicate a pre tribulation rapture. Coming as a thief in the night was toward those that were not watching. It had nothing to do with those watching for they would know the season so the pre-empt of taking the church before the tribulation is not valid since we will not be caught off gaurd no matter when it happens. Also, why does the church even think that we will not endure what so many of our brothers and sisters have endured? Brothers and sisters are martyred almost daily so somehow we think we will be spared what they were not? Mathew 10:21-22 states to the disciples 21, And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22, And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved. That they had to endure to the "end" to be saved. End of what? Their affliction. What does Math 24:12-13 state? 12, And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13, But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved. Again.. enduring to the end will be saved. I am sorry brother but I do not believe we will be caught up before the tribulation begins.. We may be caught up before the bowls of wrath phase begins but I just do not see anything that alludes to a pre-tribulation rapture. If the Lord did not come and save us, none would be saved. Mark 13:20 20, And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he has chosen, he has shortened the days.
You are bastardizing Paul's work, but really Jesus's revelation, esp. in Thessalonians and Corinthians. Think about that for a minute. let it sink in. Paul clearly taught a pre-trib rapture. The thessalonian church believed that they had missed the Lord's coming, probably because someone taught no pre-trib rapture in between Paul's letters. Paul wrote in second Thessalonians that they had not missed it and that they had forgotten his teaching on it. then in 2 Thess. 2 Paul clearly indicates that there would be a "departure" before the man of lawlessness is revealed. DEPARTURE. The new editions of the bible call it falling away or apostasy, but much earlier versions, including the 4th century Vulgate have DEPARTURE. he apostasia can also mean departure, but in modern times it is more like rebellion. did you know that the word was likely transliterated during the time when the catholics and protestants were fighting? the KJV he apostasia was transliterated to mean falling away from faith or apostasy, but many earlier texts had departure. and this is just for this one phrase. let's not even go to the more conspicuous scripture on the matter.
Regardless if you believe in pre-tribulation or post or during. You need to understand that it's two separate events. Read 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 into chapter 5
Thessalonians wasn't meant to be a full account if the coming of Christ. Instead see Matthew 24. And revelation for example, "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days" it comes after the tribulation. allot of people will fall short because of that doctrine. Atheists say "we'll see when Jesus comes" but they will loose out on salvation because there are no 2nd chances. There's a reason he calls it the 2nd coming not the third.
@@estellexlx you are correct. The first coming is to the earth, and the second coming will be also, since Jesus will touch down in Mount of Olives. The rapture, meanwhile, is not a coming to earth but a meeting in the clouds. Where Jesus will fulfill His promise in John 14:3. So even with a separate rapture, there are still only two comings. It's actually post-tribbers who are confused about Second Coming. They say it is the same event as rapture. But they agree that we are not appointed to wrath, which they say are only the 7 bowls of the 7 last plagues after the 7th trumpet. So.. Jesus needs to come after the 7th trumpet, then again for Rev. 19/Matthew 24?
NEWS CONCERNING THE RAPTURE! The beheaded christians from revelation 20: 4-5 have gone through the great tribulation and take part in the first resurrection. In the rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17 the dead in Christ will rise first,before the living will be caught up together with them. This means that the rapture can not be before the tribulation!
the dead in Christ will indeed rise first. Your error is in assuming that there is only one resurrection. First the believers in Matthew 27:52-53 when Jesus rose from the dead. Second in 1 Thes. 4:13-18, which is pre-trib. Note that the trumpet here is administered by God Himself, as opposed to the 7 trumpets of Revelation and the one at the Second Coming in Matthew 24:31 which are all administered by angels. Angels will do the gathering at the Second Coming to separate wheat from tares, but at the rapture there is no mention of angels as Jesus Himself will take His bride home in fulfilment of His John 14:3 promise. Third is the one in Rev. 20:5. The mention of "first resurrection" here is not the usual cardinal order, otherwise there would be none before it, which thru the above i proved otherwise. Instead it is to contrast with that in Rev. 5:13, the second type of resurrection. John 5:29 explains it. The first resurrection is the resurrection of life. The second is the resurrection of condemnation for the great white throne judgment. So you see, it is actually possible to have three first resurrections.
Excellent! I used to believe in a pre-trib rapture when I was younger and a new Christian. Then as I studied and prayed, I learned that a pre-tribulation rapture theory forces someone to preach/teach/believe those "left behind" are saved by "another gospel" - which is a false gospel. If one studies Scripture carefully, they'll also come to the conclusion that the rapture and second coming of Jesus are the same event.
Kasie Morgan Hi Kasie. Excellent point! Thank you. If our scripture is primarily based on Yeshua's second coming, what hope would the remnant hang on to if there is to be a pre-trib rapture?
@@anb.9386 The Book of revelation chapter 5:9 and they sang a new song saying You are worthy to take the scroll and to open the seals For You were slain And have redeemed us to God By Your Blood out of every tribe and tongue and People and Nation. Out Here we find people of every tribe and tongue and nation before the throne room of God. Even before the Beginning of Tribulation we find people out of every tribe and tongues and nations. Even before the seals and the scrolls are open we find ourselves in Heaven. We are there before the throne and singing Jesus You are worthy to open the scrolls and seals. If we are not in heaven before the Tribulation begins in Chapter 6 then who are these People mentioned in Chapter 5?? In chapter 4:4 we find 24 elders 12 from the old Testament and 12 are the 12 disciples of Christ. So if there is the mention of 12 elders then we also will be there. Because inorder for the 12 elders to be in Heaven they have to be raised from the dead. As Jesus said the dead in Christ will rise first so the 12 elders will rise and caught up in the air with us. The Book of Revelation is progressive. Firstly we find the Church and the letters written to the Churches. Jesus also said to the Church of philadelphia that He would keep them out of the hour of trial that will come upon the whole earth. Jesus also said in the Gospel that we ought to watch and Pray that we would be counted worthy to escape all these things the Tribulations. In Revelation 4:1 John heard a Shout from heaven come up. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, what's is the Shout?? The Shout is come up. John heard that shout come up before the Tribulation. The Book of Thessalonians also tells us that we are not appointed for the day of wrath(7 years Tribulation) Jesus said I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not Prevail against it. The Church is hindering for the Antichrist to be revealed and so unless the Church is removed the antichrist will not be revealed. These are only some of the Biblical proof through which I believe in Pre-tribulation Rapture. Now here is another Proof. Jesus said no one knows the time of His coming not the angles, not even He Himself, but only the Father. So if Rapture happens after the Tribulation we will certainly be able to say or point out a out about His coming. And there is another thing that I would like to point out, and that is we have the second Coming of Christ and no third coming. When we talk about the second coming or the coming of Christ we talk about His coming on the earth. His first coming on the earth was 2000 years ago and His second coming will be after the Tribulation according to the Book of revelation. So lastly Just look up to revelation chapter 4:4 where we find the 12 elders which obviously they have to be Raptured and Revation chapter 5:9,10 where we find People out of every tribe and tongue and nation redeemed by the Blood of Jesus and all of these before the throne of God the 12 elders and People out of every tribe and tongue and Nations. All of these appear before even the seals and scrolls are opened. Does this not tell us that Rapture happens before the Tribulation?? It does. I thank God that He helped me see this from the Scripture. And This is the Bible Proof on why I believe in Pre Tribulation Rapture
I’m not really sure where the idea comes from that the rapture actually starts the 7 year tribulation. Also, the 1st event (rapture) he comes for his followers/believers/saints while in the 2nd event (his return) he returns WITH his followers/saints. It’s unfortunate that this topic has ended so many friendships.
1. There is NO 7 year tribulation spoken of in the New Testament. 2. Jesus will have a second coming NOT a third coming, there will not be any secret pre tribulation rapture because it's not Biblical or in scriture.
This cat doesn't know scripture. 1st: Coming of the Lord, (Jesus receives his bride, Church resurrected and taken to the Fathers house) 2nd: The Day of the Lord (Jacobs trouble, Tribulation) 7 year wrath, the culmination of Gods covenant with ISRAEL! 3rd: Second coming of the Lord. We are with him!! We are also with him when he opens the scrolls. "We are NOT appointed to the Wrath" The taking away (Greek: Harpazō Latin: Rapere French: Rapture) can happen anytime, only the Father of the groom knows the date and hour. Not at the end an appointed, stated period of time ...7 year tribulation.
Yes, that is what 2 Thes. 2:6-8 is saying. Restrainer is removed as Spirit-indwelt believers are raptured, anti-Christ is revealed and starts unleashing unrestrained evil for 7 years of trib, then Second Coming where anti-Christ is destroyed.
If God mostly mapped/dealing with Israel what happens to the rest of the church during the tribulation? And if this is the “worst event to happen to humans” I don’t think the Holy loving God would do that that to the church. everywhere else in the world accepted God, Israel hasn’t. It is during the tribulation where the left behind(which happens to be mostly Israel the rest are killed during destruction of the rapture) finally calls on the Lord for help and they are now believers.
If someone wrote a book on the end times about Matthew 24 and 2 Thess 2 and the book of Revelation in order for it to be correct in the future, what would be the correct study. The problem is the correct interpretation takes study. The following studies explain those passages of scripture. MATTHEW 24 Many people have the context of Matthew 24 wrong. Many people don't know what happened on that day. This is what happened: 1. Matthew 24 1-2 was asked about the 2nd temple. This was done in the day time in public. Luke 21 37. 2. At that time Jesus gave Luke 21. Luke 21 had some parts about 2000 years future also. 3. So after hearing Luke 21, Jesus and the disciples walked to the Mount of Olives. On the Mount of Olives at night time, the disciples asked Matthew 24 3 about the ending of Luke 21. 4. These is a gap in time between Matthew 24 1-2 and Matthew 24 3. That makes all the difference in the world. 5. Let me rephrase Matthew 24 3 so people can understand. When will these things you talked about in Luke 21 earlier this day occur? And what will be the sign of your coming in Luke 21 24-28 and Luke 21 29-36 be? 6. Jesus was talking about the ending of 2 different ages in the end times in Matthew 24. Matthew 24 4-31 is in Daniels 70th week. There is no rapture in the 2nd half with Matthew 24 15-31. And Matthew 24 32-51 is the Pretrib rapture and has warnings for believers in this generation. 2 THESS 2 Many people are not understanding 1 Thess 5. That passage only has 2 events unlike 2 Thess 2 which has events in between. 1 Thess 5 has the rapture since we are of the day. We are sober. We are not appointed to wrath. And 1 Thess 5 has the day of the Lord at the 6th seal that starts as birth pangs on the wicked. 1 Thess 5 does not have the apostasy that will start after the pretrib rapture and 1 Thess 5 does not have the man of sin revealed at the 5th seal. Let me rephrase 2 Thess 2 so people can understand: Thessalonians do not be alarmed with a letter saying the day of the Lord at at the 6th seal has already started. That day will not start until the apostasy in the first half starts and the man of sin is revealed at the 5th seal midtrib. Now you know what is holding our gathering and all this evil to come. You are holding all this evil back. You are righteous and of the day. You are restraining all this back. There is no rapture in the 2nd half of Daniels 70th week after the antichrist is revealed midtrib. THE BOOK OF REVELATION How could everyone's interpretation of the end times be wrong? Could the literal interpretation of just three verses in the bible prove everyone wrong. These are the verses: Zech 14 and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. In Rev 1:7 it says every eye will see Him referring to the 2nd coming. Meaning in Russia and America and Africa and China and Europe and every place on earth. This will be a supernatural event. Will that event literally happen at evening time in Israel? Are we limiting God with our understanding of Armageddon and battles? Can God gather armies supernaturally? Can God destroy all the wicked in the entire world in just one day? I have been saying on the very last day of Daniel's 70th week immediately after the tribulation, Zech 14:6-9 will literally be fulfilled. On that day many interpretations will be proven wrong. Zech 14 6-9 is the day in Matthew 24 29-31 and in the book of Revelation it is the day of the 7th trumpet and all 7 bowl judgments. In the book of Revelation that day is Rev 10 7 and Rev 11 15 and Rev 14 14 and Rev 19 11. With the pretrib rapture in the Fig Tree passages and the parable of the 10 virgins, what are the differences between that event and known passages of the 2nd coming? In the pretrib rapture, no man knows the day or the hour. No man knows the watch. No man will know if it will be in the evening time or the midnight watch or when the rooster crows or at dawn. These are the watches for the Feast of Trumpets. At the shout at midnight the righteous are taken and the unrighteous are left behind. The ones left behind later ask for the door to be opened for them also. There is no eternal judgment at the pretrib rapture. The ones left behind are only told to depart from the Lord. The bridegroom is going to the wedding. When He appears, we become like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. The separation does not mention what time of day it is. The judgment on that day is the ones left behind are with the hypocrites. On the day of the 2nd coming the day will be known. It will be the last day of Daniels 70th week. The watch will be evening time in Israel. Only the hour will not be known but it will be sudden. The correct translation is I am coming suddenly. On that day the wicked are taken and the righteous are gathered on earth. There is eternal judgment on that day. Many are told to depart into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. The bridegroom is coming from the wedding. At His appearing the entire world mourns. The separation is in that night after the sun and moon are darkened. The judgment on that day is with unbelievers.
There is a lot of debate in terms of Paul's writings. He authored more than 3/5 of the New Testament and was not one of Christ's 12 disciples/Apostles.
Thank you Dr Brown! This may be a stupid question - what happens to those who reject Christ that are alive during Christ’s return? When is their judgement? And those who are dead in sin-? Resurrection to final judgement after Millennium?
I'd would argue *AGAINST* a post-trib rapture scenario, but to answer your question... When Christ returns @ the end of the tribulation, the unsaved are taken away to judgment, i.e. the "supper of the great God" as noted in *Luke 17:34-37,* & *Rev 19:17.* ONLY the redeemed enter the millennial kingdom here on earth w/Christ.
Man I love this guy. I’ve been studying throughly the end time events and have always believed in a pre-tribulation rapture and I hope it’s pre-tribulation. But the fact of the matter is, it’s looking like post-tribulation. I haven’t quite decided what I believe on it though.
@@chrisa.9977 ??? You're thanking him for WHAT? I do find it "amazing" that two different people can take the same book & come to a different conclusion on any given subject. However, I find *AMPLE* support of a pre-tibulation rapture...an event that is very distinct from His 2nd coming when His millennial reign begins.
@@Kman. one day I drew a timeline of scripture in order. It all made sense. Seriously, buy a huge piece of paper or huge chalk board or something and start with let’s say Matthew 24, in exact order of what Jesus says is going to happen write it down. Jesus tells us in order whats going to happen. And then associate those events with corresponding scripture in Book of Revelations, Daniel, the feasts, etc regarding eschatology of the end times.
@@Kman. 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Thessalonians 4:15-17 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. if you believe these two scriptures I’m quoting are two different events then yes it’s a pre-tribulation rapture, at least that’s one of the ways how this belief is supported. I ask you then, one of these scriptures are the blowing of the 7th trumpet(2nd coming), which one? Plz answer. I believe their both the 7 trumpet and the term last trump means the last trump of Feasts of Trumpets, and the first trump is the onset of the tribulation (sound of the alarm) as in the Old Statement states. Look .. I’m not saying I’m right or wrong, this isn’t what I’m preaching to everyone, this is how i understand it. Truly, I preach Christ crucified. It’s just nice though to have these conversations with fellow believers of Christ. God bless you all!
If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent-there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30). Any thoughts on this?
Yes - If Doctrine has Contradictions should it be look at again? Two Resurrections Right? Let's take a look. (Paul is VERY Explicit in 1 Cor 15:00 with the whole chapter on the resurrection of the Belivers) 1 Cor 15:21-24 *** "resurrection order and then the end" *** (MUST READ) Act 14:22 Go throuth many tribulations? Act 8:1 1) Is the Rapture the 1st Resurrection? Rev 20:4-5 2) Two Resurrections? Rev 20:6 2 Thess 1:5-12 *** Christ coming to be admired by "all" who believe? *** 2 Thess 2:1-4 Our gathering, the falling away, that day? Matt 24:9 Matt 21-22 John 14:18-20 **Deliver you up to tribulation and kill you** Matt 24:13 Call to endurance? Book of John is very interesting on the resurrection in Christ words. (The Last Day) John 11:24 Jesus with Mary on that day and the resurrection John 6:39-40, 44, 54 all on the last day, day of the Lord? 1 John 3:2 When He is revealed we will be like him? Rev 13:7-10 Saints are overcome? Rev 7:13-14 Come out of great tribulation? Rev 11:15-18 7th Trumpet is the 1st resurrection? Yes I agree that we are NOT appointed unto Wrath but tribulation?
The rapture issue is really a simple matter that many people have greatly complicated over the years. How can it be simple? There are only 2 main scriptures you need to know. These are 1. Mt. 13:24-30 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed ears, then the weeds also appeared. “The owner’s servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “`An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, `Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “`No,’ he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’“ The 1st clue is "Let both grow together until the harvest." When you know when that time is you will have the answer. Does the Bible tell us when the harvest will be? Yes. Where in scripture is it? 2. The book of Revelation chapter 14; Re. 14:14-20 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one “like a son of man” with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia. [That is, about 180 miles (about 300 kilometres)] The scripture in Matthew is a parable which is a story Jesus told to make a point. Every parable has truth in it even though some of the scenarios may not actually have happened exactly as described. So an explanation is needed. Mt. 13:10-17 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “`You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ [Isaiah 6:9,10] But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it". What about all the other scriptures about the rapture? Some are legitimate and some have nothing to do with it. This agrees with all the legitimate NT scriptures. I'll reference some here if you want to do further study: Mt. 24:30-31, I Th. 5:1-11, II Th. 2:1-12, I Co. 15:51-58.
@@raedradha6403 So, the rapture and the second coming are different events. The rapture and the harvest of the earth (Rev. 14:14-20) are the same event. The second coming doesn't happen until after God has finished pouring out his wrath on the earth. We are not appointed to wrath and we won't be here during that time.
@@estellexlx That is correct, but it is poured out during the last part of it. Re. 15:1 I saw in heaven another great and marvellous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues - last, because with them God’s wrath is completed. Re. 15:6 Out of the temple came the seven angels with the seven plagues. They were dressed in clean, shining linen and wore golden sashes round their chests. Re. 15:7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls filled with the wrath of God, who lives for ever and ever. Re. 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no-one could enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed. Re. 16:1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”
I also grew up believing in a pre-tribulation rapture. However, when I started studying the Bible for myself, that viewpoint changed. 1. The disciples, prophets, or Christ never spoke of a time that people would be left behind. 2. Pretribulation rapture doctrine states that when the rapture occurs, the Holy Spirit will be removed but people will still come to Christ, which is IMPOSSIBLE according to scripture because we are told that the Holy spirit draws us to Christ John 6:44, 1 Corinthians 3:16,, 2 Corinthians 3:17. We are promised that the Holy Spirit would be with us forever John 14:16-26. 3. I also noted that everywhere in scripture where it spoke of tribulations, it wasn't for unbelievers. Tribulations is ONLY for believers. The wrath of God is for unbelievers. The great Tribulation is not the wrath of God. Only Christians suffer in the Tribulations, unbelievers enjoy themselves untouched by the wrath from the beast, false prophet, and anti-Christ, whose wrath is only directed towards those who worship God. If there were no Christians, there would be no tribulations because again, it is the wrath of evil against Christians. 4. In Luke 17:37, we are given the same parable of one taken and one left that we see in Matthew 24. However, in Luke, Christ is asked where the ones taken will be taken off to. He replies "where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth." (To clarify... HELL) 5. Every parable of Christ agrees that it will be the wicked removed, not the saints. Take for instance in Matthew 22 when Christ was giving a parable of a wedding feast. The wicked was removed. In Matthew 25:14-30, we see the parable of talents, again, the wicked servant is thrown out/removed. In Matthew 13:24-30, we see the parable of the wheat and tares. Notice the reapers never ask to pull up the wheat but they ask to pull up the tares and what does the master say? "Let them both grow together till the harvest." The harvest is at the end. Then which is removed? The tares are removed first. 6. This is a constant theme throughout scripture. Take Noah's ARK and LOT, again, it was the wicked who were removed, while the righteous were protected. 8. When we look at the ten virgins. When the door was shut on the five foolish ones, it was not shut for a time or until they went through tribulations but it was shut on them FOREVER. Also look at the five foolish virgins. They were not expecting the bridegroom to tarry. Which sounds a lot like the pretribulation doctrine. They believe in a rescue and are not preparing to endure. The five wise virgins prepared to endure. Pretribulation doctrine likes to state that Noah and Lot were removed out of the way. True. That was God's protection But WHO WAS REMOVED FROM THE EARTH? We consistently see the wicked removed from the earth. Not the righteous. We see the righteous protected on the earth while the wicked are removed. 7. After looking at scripture I went back to hear a few preachers and demonstrations of the scriptures pertaining to pretribulation rapture because I still wanted to believe a rescue was true. That's when I noticed that THEY were choosing which scriptures were the first secret rapture and which scripture was the "everyone sees him" second rapture. (or as they say one rapture and one return. But again only one is found in scripture) Because one passage says he "comes in the clouds", another says "He comes on the clouds" and one says "His feet touch the ground"... That is adding to scripture to divide these into separate returns that are never spoken of. Scripture NEVER explicitly states that Christ returns twice. 8. If we look back at Jewish tradition because that is What Christ based a lot of his parables on because that was his main audience. IT was tradition for the people of a city, when they heard that someone of special status like a prince or a king was coming to town. The people of the city would run out to greet that special high ranking person and parade them back in with song and dance and shouting. This is what happened when Christ rode into Jerusalem on a donkey and THIS is what scripture means. Christ will return in/on the clouds, the dead will rise first, then those alive will be caught up and the redeemed saints will Parade Christ back down to earth. 9. Pretribulation doctrine likes to use the verse found in Jude 1 about Christ returning with 10,000 holy ones. Which specifically states it was quoting ENOCH. When you look at that verse in Enoch, it is referring to angels NOT redeemed saints!!! It will be ANGELS not REDEEMED SAINTS who are plucking up the evil ones and casting them into the fire. 10. Pretribulation doctrine teaches that the holy spirit is removed from man because He is the restrainer. YET ZERO verses that give us the characteristics of the Holy Spirit, has his character down as a restrainer. Any good behavioral profiler could look at the Holy Spirit's characteristics and say, "He is not a restrainer". Instead of adding to scripture and coming up with all these man made doctrines, its best to believe what the scriptures say and pray for clarification when something such as "WHO THE RESTRAINER" is comes up. Answers will be revealed in their time.
For 30 years I’ve been asking one question: Where in the holy Bible does it say “just before the great tribulation”, that exact timeline specified, is when Jesus he’s going to remove his people from earth? The answer: it’s not there. Stick to what the holy Bible says.
In 1st John 4 vs 1-3 we find written these words : "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the anti-christ, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world". What is so important about Jesus coming in the flesh? It is important because we are flesh that deserves the wrath of God for our sins...but Jesus came , and took on our flesh that he might also take on our wrath. We were saved, from wrath...that is the meaning of SALVATION . That is the purpose and meaning of Jesus coming in the flesh. When you deny that Jesus is going to rapture the church and spare it from the wrath of God, you are denying the SALVATION that we received by Jesus taking on our flesh and taking on our wrath. This is a form of denying that Jesus came in the flesh. What spirit are we listening to in this video ???
Anthony pre trib and post trib debate is making me go crazy haha I still believe in pre trib but apparently majority of Christians I know now are against pre trib
@@margiechism Yes, the wrath will start on the day of the Lord, but if you read Revelation you will see the Wrath is made up of many nasty forms of Judgement on the wicked.
The Book of revelation chapter 5:9 and they sang a new song saying You are worthy to take the scroll and to open the seals For You were slain And have redeemed us to God By Your Blood out of every tribe and tongue and People and Nation. Out Here we find people of every tribe and tongue and nation before the throne room of God. Even before the Beginning of Tribulation we find people out of every tribe and tongues and nations. Even before the seals and the scrolls are open we find ourselves in Heaven. We are there before the throne and singing Jesus You are worthy to open the scrolls and seals. If we are not in heaven before the Tribulation begins in Chapter 6 then who are these People mentioned in Chapter 5?? In chapter 4:4 we find 24 elders 12 from the old Testament and 12 are the 12 disciples of Christ. So if there is the mention of 12 elders then we also will be there. Because inorder for the 12 elders to be in Heaven they have to be raised from the dead. As Jesus said the dead in Christ will rise first so the 12 elders will rise and caught up in the air with us. The Book of Revelation is progressive. Firstly we find the Church and the letters written to the Churches. Jesus also said to the Church of philadelphia that He would keep them out of the hour of trial that will come upon the whole earth. Jesus also said in the Gospel that we ought to watch and Pray that we would be counted worthy to escape all these things the Tribulations. In Revelation 4:1 John heard a Shout from heaven come up. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, what's is the Shout?? The Shout is come up. John heard that shout come up before the Tribulation. The Book of Thessalonians also tells us that we are not appointed for the day of wrath(7 years Tribulation) Jesus said I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not Prevail against it. The Church is hindering for the Antichrist to be revealed and so unless the Church is removed the antichrist will not be revealed. These are only some of the Biblical proof through which I believe in Pre-tribulation Rapture. Now here is another Proof. Jesus said no one knows the time of His coming not the angles, not even He Himself, but only the Father. So if Rapture happens after the Tribulation we will certainly be able to say or point out a out about His coming. And there is another thing that I would like to point out, and that is we have the second Coming of Christ and no third coming. When we talk about the second coming or the coming of Christ we talk about His coming on the earth. His first coming on the earth was 2000 years ago and His second coming will be after the Tribulation according to the Book of revelation. So lastly Just look up to revelation chapter 4:4 where we find the 12 elders which obviously they have to be Raptured and Revation chapter 5:9,10 where we find People out of every tribe and tongue and nation redeemed by the Blood of Jesus and all of these before the throne of God the 12 elders and People out of every tribe and tongue and Nations. All of these appear before even the seals and scrolls are opened. Does this not tell us that Rapture happens before the Tribulation?? It does. I thank God that He helped me see this from the Scripture. And This is the Bible Proof on why I believe in Pre Tribulation Rapture
The rapture and second coming ARE separated by 7 years ... just not the 7 years I was taught and did teach myself until about 7 years ago with pre-trib rapture/immanent Return. post (42 month) tribulation/Pre Wrath of The Lamb ... first the "vanishing" of the nephilim ... Luke 17 tells us where the ones taken went ... THEN the rapture/gathering per 1 Thess 4:16-17, we witness the Lamb's Wrath, which is cut short least no one survive ..... we are evermore with Jesus ... the concurrent 7 years which follow; in Heaven the Bema Seat/Wedding Feast of The Lamb (Rev 19) .... and on Earth, the Ez 39:(9) cleanup of the Meggido Valley (by the 144k which was taken from the dragon 42 mos prior to the prepared place by two wings of a great eagle (Rev 12)) "...to the end" said the Master in Matthew 24. Is the end the beginning of the Dan 9:27 confirmed covenant? is it the resumption of the "regular sacrifice?" The initiation/completion of the 3rd Temple? The revelation of the man of lawlessness (2 Thess 2)? The cessation of the "regular sacrifice?" The desecration of God's Temple? or the aforementioned "vanishing" as it was in the days of Noah that killed all but one nephilim .... Ham's wife ... the mother of Canaan. Jesus' Return/Second Coming is when He puts His feet on the Mount of Olives and enters the Temple via the Suleiman-bricked closed gate in 1536 .... about 10.5 years after the Triune God was revealed in the Temple, just before antichrist declares he's God. Ez 43. this isn't scriptural, but I think the priest on duty when Ez 43 happens is on duty when antichrist does his desecration ... and makes his demand to be worshipped. That priest has had his eyes opened seeing Jesus with the nail scarred hands ... to the antichrist he replies "nuh uh! He was just here a minute ago, you're a faker!" .... and the evac via Bozrah/Petra starts ... and the 42 month Great Tribulation. Good video! subscribed.
the big distinction between the rapture and the second combining millennial reign can literally be seen in the observations Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven, Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Mar 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen The rapture has clouds, the second coming does not have clouds and that is how you tell the difference. Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. This in Zac is the only description that mentions what will be seen as far as the weather and observations about the day itself Zac 14:1-21, Jude 1:14-15, Rev 19:11-21, The rapture has clouds the Start of the millennial reign does not. I believe God did that on purpose as a way that we could distinguish one from the other.
This is not a salvation issue wheather you believe in pre mid post or no rapture but For those of you who believe in pre tribulation rapture did you study the bible for yourself to come to this conclusion or did you hear it preached when you got saved? 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 correlates with Revelation 20:4-6. How can there be a pre tribulation Resurrection if Revelation 20:6 says the first Resurrection takes place after the tribulation? Read the scriptures for yourself independently as if you never heard of certain doctrines or without any influence from popular pastors, biblical scholars or denominations. Ask yourself if you still believe certain doctrines just by reading what the scriptures say.
Daniel 11:36- 12:3 which Jesus pointed us to in Matthew 24:15 also has a resurrection occuring after the abomination of desolation and after the time of great trouble, corresponding with the exact same sequence as the gathering of the elect and the redemption found in Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27, and Luke 21:28. All these occur after the signs in the sun, moon, and stars and after the revelation of Jesus from heaven. Joel 2:31-32 has a deliverance occurring at this time too. This passage was quoted by Paul in Romans 10:12-13. It would be very misleading for Paul to point them to this deliverance if it was not the one intended for them.
Why I Believe in the Pre-tribulation Rapture! There will be little eating, drinking, buying, planting, building and getting married at the end of the tribulation. Everybody is hiding in a cave (Rev 6:15-17) and freaking out (Luke 21:26). One taken, one left is the pre-trib rapture without a resurrection (Luke 17:37). We don't disappear. There is a flash of light and we leave our flesh on earth. 1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming with a resurrection. There is only one resurrection (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6). All respect to Dr. Brown. Maranatha!
Amen!! I truly believed this to since last year. Mathew 24:29-31.AFTER those days of tribulation the the son of man will appear and "GATHERING UP" his saints(Elects). Revelations 3:10. Revelations 2:10 and Revelations 6:9-12. "Since you have kept my commands, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which is gooing to come to those who dwell on earth to test the whole world"
Not to mention how Revelations says that during tribulation, the saints will be thrown in prison, they will become martyrs like the saints throughout history, how they will be overcome by the beast, etc. There is nothing in the Bible that says to Christians, "Oh, don't worry about the tribulation; you'll be raptured out before it happens and you'll be safe and sound." Instead, the Bible teaches for Christians to endure, endure, endure to the very end (that is, to the very end of tribulation). All of the warnings Jesus gives of the tribulation doesn't make sense unless Christians are to go through it theselves.
@@EndTimesHarvest Amen brother and in the vision that prophet Daniel saw about the anti christ and his reigning, The anti christ will be revealed in appointed time bc God will allow that for the kingdom sake and of course Martyres do matter to God if you read Revelation 6:9-11 and the vision that Paul saw th-cam.com/video/nZS6TVqsumc/w-d-xo.html. Watch this prophet of God explain this deeper Revelation that God told him and other prophets in Africa who have got this Revelation. Amen Be bless and be strong! brother
Sorry I’m late but could you answer this, when the Bible says he’s coming back with all his saints what does that mean? All in Greek means “whole” and whole in Greek means “Total” so are we not his saints??? They didn’t say he was returning with “some” of his saints they said all of them
The Lord asked me this simple question. If people go to heaven when they die (as everyone believes), and the church is raptured to heaven before I come (as some believe), when I step foot on this earth, what righteous person would be in the ground for me to resurrect?
Im still learning myself so please bare with me. this is a question i had and have understood that all who are dead in christ now are sleeping until the second coming then the dead in christ shall rise to live in heaven. Until that day they are sleeping. I may be wrong but this so far is my understanding
@@ali-eve4279 there will be a new heavens and a new earth. Earth is our home, not heaven. The dead in Christ will rise as Lazarus rose, to perfect life on a perfected earth free of evil and sin. We will get back what Adam and Eve lost.
@@connierosario9474 thats exactly how i understand it too. Only when peaople die they are sleeping and have not been judged yet!! So when jesus comes the dead will Still be sleeping and on that day they are risen with the church. To live on pur new earth. I dont belive in a secret rapture befote the second coming although i am a young Christian and still learning.
@@ali-eve4279 The Lord is slowly opening people's eyes to see that the pagan belief of a separate soul that goes to heaven, which was popularized by the idolic Catholic church is not what God has planned for us. God did not tell Adam, you are gonna die and return to me. He told Adam, dust you are and to dust you will return. When Jesus told Martha see would see Lazarus again, she said yes, I know we'll see him in the resurrection of the last days. But Jesus resurrected him then and there so we can see what will happen to us when he returns.
Who is the great MULTITUDE of revelation 5:9- 12 before the seals are broken? Then in 6:9 the other multitude of the tribulation saints who were the virgins with no oil get their robes just as their brethren who are under the throne. Proof.
In investigating post Trib viewpoints, I keep running into a question that needs answering. How will a Church Age Believer be ALIVE at the 7th Trumpet? How did the Tribulation Saints get beheaded for Christ and not make it through alive with you?
Paul said "we who remain... " In other words, there will be some who remain until the coming of the Lord. Many will be beheaded, but will all? Remember those days will be cut short for the elect's sake, otherwise all would perish. So before AC can kill all saints, his time gets cut short. But yes, it will be a blood bath with much persecution, but he who endured til the end will be saved.
@@Mike65809 Thanks for answering my questions. I was thinking that "we who remain" are those alive at the time of the Rapture after the dead in Christ go up to meet Him in the air first, followed instantly by the alive Saints: 1 Thessalonians 4:16 KJV For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: People have said the Rapture occurs post Trib at the Last Trumpet, which is likely your interptetation. Here Paul says "with the trump of God" which corresponds with Apostle John being caught up to Heaven listening to a voice that sounds like a trumpet (a voice but not the actual instrument): Revelation 4:1 KJV After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. "Enduring to the end" you believe are Church Saints coming through the Tribulation. I took it to mean the Tribulation Saints enduring to the end of their lives and being beheaded. Lots to think about. Again, thanks for helping.
@@buckle-upbuttercup9345 Okay good. But can't agree with you on your interpretation of Rev. 4. John did to up to heaven, true. But since when can we interpret that to mean the resurrection/rapture of the church? No reason to equate the two. John is not the church. Enduring until the end is for us, we will become the Tribulation saints if we are here at that time. There is not reason to assume we will not be here, since there are no scriptures in context that teach a pre-trib rapture. It is derived and assumed and an idea brought to the text. Context is key to understanding any passage. Each passage reveals that there is no pre-trib rapture. Just let the text speak for itself. God bless.
@@Mike65809 no scriptures in context about pre-trib rapture? Jesus promised that He would go to His Father's house (heaven) and prepare a place for us, then come back to receive us so we may be where He is. John 14:3. This is confirmed in Rev. 19:14 where we are pictured as following Christ out of heaven at the Second Coming. Totally contradicts post-trib, since your version of rapture says you go up in the air then illogically do a U-turn to immediately go back to earth. Jesus also promised in Rev. 3:10 to keep us from the hour of trial. Take note, He did not use THROUGH, He used FROM. He will not merely let us go thru it while protecting us. It's important He added the word hour. It means we are not supposed to be here during the timeframe of the trib. Also, Jesus encouraged us in Luke 21:36 to pray to be accounted worthy to escape ALL these things that are coming to pass. So is Jesus lying to tell us one thing but know that we will actually go thru any part of it? Plus Jesus declared that the gates of hell will not prevail over His Church. Yet in Revelation the saints are overcome. Only plausible explanation is pre-trib rapture, and the saints referred to are trib saints, those who come to faith after the rapture. The anti-Christ will only be revealed AFTER the Holy Spirit-indwelt true believers are taken away. 2 Thes. 2:6-7. Don't you find it contradictory to be filled with the Holy Spirit and be here around the same timeframe as the beast? We are already sealed by the Holy Spirit, and only pre-trib rapture explains why the angels needed to seal God's servants before harming the earth. Jesus said He is coming as a thief, at an hour we do not expect, like in the business-usual-days of Noah. Doesn't sound like Second Coming precisely because they are different events! Jesus reiterated watchfulness. What's the point in watching if you knew you still had at least 7 years? Even little biblical clues point to pre-trib. We are called ambassadors for Christ. Ambassadors get called home before war breaks out. We are called priests. In Isaiah priests are instructed to hide for a little while until indignation is past. We are also called bride. Ancient Galilean wedding traditions indicate the groom goes to his father's house to prepare a place, then come back unexpectedly to snatch his bride away, take her to the prepared chamber and stay there for SEVEN days.
I’m just figuring this out. With much prayer and studying… allowing Yahweh to teach me rather than man. I see it so clearly… I can’t believe how long I was deceived.😢
You're _"just figuring this out with much prayer and studying"_ ? How ' bout, you've come to the conclusion after Dr Brown's video? There's no *"2 for 1 Combo",* where the rapture is combined with the 2nd coming of Christ here to earth.
“Let no one deceive you in any way…” Same day (just as in the days of Noah and Lot, God’s people saved from judgement the day it is poured out). 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
I would be happy to be incorrect, I certainly don’t think this is an issue that should divide us as believers in Jesus, but there is every indication from Scripture-believers, get yourselves ready...Time to get your big boy and big girl pants on.
A lot of people think tribulation and Gods wrath are the same thing. In Matthew it literally says after the tribulation of those days. Then Christ comes in the clouds and we meet him. And then after that is the beginning of the wrath of God.
consider this, in a Jewish wedding Ceremony when the son finished preparing a place in the fathers house for the bride, the father sent the son to return to gather the bride. The son did not know when the father would say his work of preparing the place for the bride was complete, and this corresponds with Jesus saying that he didn’t know the Day of his return nor the angels in heaven but the father alone, this is how we know that this applies to John 14:3. The bride than returns with the son to the fathers house for seven days, john 14:3 pictured. after this they return to the brides house, (earth). If you apply this to us as the bride of Christ and the fact that 7 days in the Old Jewish wedding ceremony correspond with the seven years of the great tribulation that we are in the fathers house with the son celebrating our union you can see where a pre-tribulation rapture is taught in scripture by using the pictures given.
1 Thessalonians 5:9-24 King James Version 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
When I first became a Christian I believed in a pre-trib rapture because it was so popular and no one really questioned it. But the more I studied the Bible the more apparent it became to me that it was simply not true. Ask a pre-tribber to explain Revelation 13:7.
The idea that the Tribulation is only for Israel in contradicted in Rev. 12. She is given wings of an eagle and is flown out into the wilderness where she is protected from the Beast for 3.5 years. So how can it be for Israel? Plus, if Israel "looks upon me that they pierced" and mourn for him, then how can they be saved if they have taken the mark??? They can't.
It seems that in this passage Paul is reassuring the Thessalonians that their suffering will be rewarded at the second coming of Christ. It is at His second coming that He judges those who persecuted the church throughout His Story, and He then sets up His new kingdom on earth for those who's faith will be rewarded for enduring suffering and continuing to persevere in their faith until the end of their lives and the end of the age of the church. Paul who wrote this letter, and those who he wrote it to, are long since dead. So they won't be on earth when Jesus returns. So where will they be? Jesus and His mighty angels will inflict "Vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus". Where are the believers who are alive at His coming? Are they on earth dodging His flaming fire? Or, have we already been taken up to be with those saints who have died before us, as 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17? Will this meeting in the air occur before the tribulation period? Is it possible that the coming Paul is referring to is the beginning of the vengeance of our God? That this coincides with the beginning of the tribulation period? Where does it say in this portion of scripture that Jesus will take believers out of the world? It says He will be "Revealed"? Revealed to those who are on earth? Those "Who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus". Where is the church in this passage? It is very possible that the church is not on the earth but has already been taken, those who were dead followed by those who were living, at a time prior to His return to inflict vengeance on all who remain on the earth. I don't reject the post tribulation rapture. God will do what God will do. I do think that there may be evidence for a pre-trib rapture in the scriptures. However, if Jesus chooses to drag His beloved church, His bride presented to Him without spot or blemish, who He died for, through the tribulation period, I trust that He has a purpose in that as well.
I'm not sure what text you alluded to, but in *II Thess 1,* Paul is telling the believers, that they can rest in KNOWING that the unjust will have their reward in due time, i.e. the *2nd* coming. Now, you ask where does scripture say we're taken OUT, or UP prior to the return of Christ? *John 14:3* is one of _M A N Y_ texts that support the position. For instance, if there's ONLY a return of Christ @ the end of the tribulation w/o having *1st* received the church & taken them to heaven, then you have that verse TOTALLY sdrawkcab, for that verse makes quite clear, that @ the RAPTURE, we go to where HE is...HE'S not coming to where WE are. HE receives us...WE don't receive Him, & by the way, He's in HEAVEN, so this alone tells us that we're taken OUT of this world. All the best to you in your search for truth, & *MARANATHA!*
Zac...but you seem to indicate that *II Thess 1* is the "silver bullet" or s/thing that drives the death knell to any alternate position by saying that. There's a host of scriptures that can be used to validate a *PRE* tribulation rapture, but two passages I just noted in the comment section would be *Matt 25* and *II Cor **5:10**...* neither the sheep and goat separation can be accounted for or the judgment seat of Christ with the two events melded into one.
15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. Rev. 13:15 4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev.20:4 9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.Rev 6:9-11 Why would God forsake us to the wrath of the antichrist only to be killed?
Thank you for your video. If you believe that God is coming to judge the living and the dead. How can you not believe in a pre- trib rapture? Is there even one example in scripture where God did not provide a way of escape for his remnant before His judgement?
With all due respect.... Absolutely wrong. There are many types which establish God’s doctrine of a Pre Tribulation Rapture. Starting with Enoch, Noah, The Exodus, Rahab, Lot, etc. God establishes His doctrine through types in the Bible with the most important one being the practice of offering blood sacrifices in the temple as a type of what Jesus would come to earth to do... give His life and shed His blood for us. The confusion you have is with those who come to accept and believe in Jesus during the Tribulation (Tribulation Saints) after the Rapture. This gentleman’s explanation is very lacking. Look up J.D. Farag and his sermon on the Pre Tribulation Rapture. He goes in depth on the symbolism of a Jewish wedding and solid doctrine taught by the apostle Paul. You could also look up Robert Breaker’s sermon on Pre Tribulation Rapture as well. Both of these sermons are excellent in rightly dividing God’s word so you can understand the end times revelation.
Revelation 9:4 “And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.” There's got to be some with the seal of God that won't be harmed right? On fifth trumpet, locust are to torment only those without the seal of God. Please help me understand this scripture, thanks and God bless you all, in Jesus name amen
@@stevesengpraseuth7707 If corona is killing Christians, do you think during the tribulation people wont be killed ? infact they will be slaughtered, once people take the mark the locusts will harm people with the chip on them or what ever the mark is , this happens during the 5th trumpet we still dont know what the locust truly is. But one thing is sure Jesus said the tribulation is coming on all who dwell on earth. It will be an awful horror which never took place or ever will, which is why the Bible clearly says the " The one who restrain the antichrist should be taken away" This is why the church will be raptured
@@ltj1061 thanks for the reply, I'm not sure if you watch this link, but please tell me your thoughts, there's scriptures in the video that I'm studying and trying to understand. th-cam.com/video/fE81HrKxHoo/w-d-xo.html
@@ltj1061 thanks for reply my friend, like many Christian's before us, many were prosecuted and died for Jesus, Simon/Peter, Apostle Paul, the Two witnesses etc. Then ressurected. Something tells me that we too, followers of Christ may have to lay down our lives and then be ressurected on the second coming of Christ, Revelation 3:10 “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” KJV I think only those who are like the the Philadelphia church will be rapture and the rest will be tested, what do you think? Just trying to understand, I'm learning.
@@ltj1061 Revelation 13:7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” King James Version (KJV) It says the antichrist will make war with the saints, not the two witnesses, what do you think?
i agree..no pre trib..i wish it is...coz we can escape the great trib....but its not...we have to suffer...just like Jesus when he lived here 2000 yrs ago... then once we are all... drained..peesecuted..he will appear in the clouds...then the rapture happens..
Second Thessalonians out right tells us that the rapture happens at the 3 1/2 year mark. Jesus comes when the antichrist sits on the throne. All scholars agree that’s the 3 1/2 year mark. I really don’t see why this is difficult for most people.
I fail to see where it says anything about saints coming with Jesus during that time in these verses. Your trials and tribulations are vindicated when Jesus wages war against the nations at the time of the end - that is all.
The Pre-Tribulation view is correct because of the following: 1. Jesus comes for his church and everyone who believes in Christ and carries out Gods word is taken, including innocent children. Lukewarm Christians not taken. 2. Due to millions of people vanishing, the world goes into global chaos. This allows the opportunity for the Antichrist to reveal himself and rise into power. As soon as the false peace treaty is signed in Israel commences the 7 year tribulation period. 3. Now let’s apply maths to this. If there is no pre-tribulation rapture, we know that either the rapture will take place 3.5 years into the tribulation or 7 years from the agreement. This undermines what the scripture says because everyone will know a time he will come. Therefore, it makes sense that the pre-tribulation view is correct because it can happen at any time! 4. During the tribulation period Jews convert to Christianity and the 144,000 spread the word of God converting non believers into believers. The ones who die a believer during this period and who do not take the mark become tribulation saints. 5. At Jesus seconding coming, which is at the very end of the 7 year tribulation, he brings back the church (the ones raptured) the tribulation saints who died believing in him to defeat the Antichrist and the false prophet. Additionally, satan is locked away for 1,000 years so that no one can be influenced by his lies. 6. Jesus paid for our sins when he died on the cross. Logically doesn’t make sense for his people to suffer Gods wrath when he paid the ultimate penalty for all who believe in him. 7. It’s all in the bible. 8. The rapture is imminent and unpredictable as there are no preceding events required. The seconding coming is predictable based on the start of the tribulation.
2nd comment. In Revelation he says to one of the churches that if they don't repent he will throw them in the tribulation, so if we all go through, why would he say if they don't repent. He also says that we should pray that we are worthy to escape all these things, talking about the tribulation.
Give actual scripture, and if you're talking about the church in Smyrna, the Lord had nothing against them but he told them they will be put in prison and that they WILL have tribulation. Most chillingly he commanded them to be faithful even to the death. I'll wait.
The more I look into the question of pre /mid/post /or no trib at all, the more confused I become. Now I'm beginning to think that born again believers in CHRIST, who have repented, received Christ as their Lord and Savior, get baptized publicly in full Emerson, serve the LORD faithfully, but hold to a pre or mid trib position will lose their salvation and be doomed to the lake of fire for all eternity... Is there any hope in the redemptive work of JESUS at the cross? Will they all be doomed? Lord have mercy upon your people, for we are without hope. Have mercy LORD, Please have mercy.
@@brianweekes7323 God is not the author of confusion, the devil is. God is clear with what he says. If you read the scripture if it was pretrib wouldn’t God clearly outline it, “you won’t endure tribulation”. But no Jesus never said that, he said endure till the end. His message was about endurance
@@brianweekes7323 you see the negative effect of post-trib? Among other things it gets you looking for the anti-Christ. Pre-trib gets you looking for the imminent return of Christ.
@@raedradha6403 yes God actually outlined that we will NOT endure tribulation. It was Jesus Himself who told us in Luke 21:36 to pray to be accounted worthy to escape ALL these things that are coming to pass. Not just some, not just the first part or half, ALL of it.
Yep. They just conveniently dodge/deny/circumvent the distinctions. The fact that they have differences simply means that they are in fact separate events.
When Jesus comes the SECOND time He will appear to those who look for Him and love Him. Hebr 9:28. This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.( Second time.Acts 1:11.) Immediately after the tribulation Jesus shall appear from Heaven. (SECOND TIME) Matt. 24:29-30. When Jesus comes the second time He will descent from Heaven and we will meet Him in the air.( 1Thes 4:16). When Jesus comes the second time we will be gathering together unto Him.(2 Thes 2:1). When Jesus comes the second time He will come in flaming fire and vengeance to those unbelievers who had fallen away from the truth and then Jesus will be glorified in his saints in that day.(2Thes 1:8,10). Before Jesus comes the second time a falling away from the truth must take place for the antichrist to be revealed.(2Thes 2:3) When Jesus comes the second time He will destroy the antichrist with the brightness of His coming and those who had fallen away from the truth..(2Thes 2:8,10). Nobody is going to disappear (raptured) before Jesus comes the second time.
I found post trib in Revelation 20 4&6. Only the beheaded and survivors of the tribulation take part in the First Resurrection, only the tribulation saints reign with Jesus for the thousand years .Daniel 12 2 and Revelation 20 12-15 Christians and unbelievers wake together after the thousand year reign of Jesus. Take heed that no man deceives you. Jesus would love to show you the difference between a Christian and a saint. Just pray, and read Revelation 3 - Revelation 20 18 chapters describing saints
So are you saying that the saints that come back with Jesus are quickly caught up to meet Jesus and apparently the whit horses, change clothes and come back for battle all in the span of less than a few minutes? ( please excuse the way that is phrased and written because I don’t went it to sound like a mockery ).. and can the belief about the timing of the rapture jeopardize one’s salvation?
@Smidlee Well who are the saints and those that keep the commandments of God that the antichrist makes war on in the tribulation ? Or the multitude that no one could number that comes out of the great tribulation ? Why does Paul say we get our rest when the lord is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels taking vengeance on those who know not God ? Why in 1st Corinthians 15 does he say once the dead are raised and we are caught up with the lord that the saying shall come to pass which says Death is swallowed up in victory which comes from Isaiah 25:8 read Isaiah 24and 25 to verse 8 it is speaking of the second coming . Why does Paul tell us in Thessalonians that the day of the lord will not over take us as a theif ? Study the day of the lord once again the second coming . There is not a single verse on the " Pre trib rapture " you can use thessalonians all you want but the verse pre tribulational doctrine claims is the rapture is surrounded by text about the second coming . The pre tribulation rapture is man's doctrine I was taught and believed that way the majority of my life till I did multiple in depth studies in which I found countless scripture proving a post tribulation rapture
Also will those 144,000 be traveling the world witnessing at that time ? because the multitude from the great tribulation is of every tribe tongue and nation . I believe they are called the sealed of Israel not the 144,000 witnesses.....further more Revelation tells us that all those who dwell on the earth will worship the beast except those who's names are written in the lambs book of life since the beginning of time, why are those who's names written in the lambs book of life still here are the rapture ? God just said ok I'm taking all you special people up while the rest of you are beheaded for you testimony? Hmm
I trust God to protect me in the Tribulation just as He protected the Jews who survived the 10 Plagues in Egypt..
So is God to protect *ALLLLL* believers? Just who is getting their heads lopped off? You do realize, that 1/4 of the world's population will be killed off by the time the 6th seal is opened, don't you?
The scripture tells us that we (the church) are kept *FROM* the hour of trial, not kept safe DURING or while going THROUGH it.
I'll sometimes look at Exodus. The Israelites were still in Egypt during the 10 plagues but we know that God protected them during that time. The Scripture is clear that during at least some of the plagues, God kept them from affecting the a Israelites.
Think about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Jesus did what he promises us. Be "there" with them. Get them through it. Not remove them from it. This is where my hope lies, for end times. Not in a rapture.
@@shelterdog31 The Jews God protects through the Great Trib are a type of Noah and come through alive to the Millennium, but The Bride of Christ, what an unfathomable love He has for His Church, which is a type of Enoch:
Hebrews 11:5 KJV
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
@@shelterdog31 No one knows if its post or pre. Either way no one knows the hour the commandments are still the same and no one on earth can save us. Salvation is through the Lord Jesus Christ no matter what people want to believe. All believers should pray for the will of the father and let it be that. I do not believe people who believe in pre tribulation are going to loose salvation if it doesn't happen, they may be sad but the Lord said no one can pluck them from my hand. They will not be fooled by satan.
The Tribulation is the Time of "Jacob's Trouble" (Jer 30:7) so it's sure NOT to protect the "Israelites".... It's time to TEST them.... and the Church is gone and no reason to test her.... - (Rev 3:10/see also that the Rapture is .... "But of that day and that knoweth no man"...Mark 13:32). It ... there are no pre-conditions to happen before the Rapture. (...unless you think it's appropriate for the Bridegroom (Christ) to take his Bride (Christians) into the 7 years of horror for their HONEYMOON! The horror begins in Rev 6... when the wrath of the Lamb "is come!" says verses 16,17.
@@janechristian9130 fool, Jesus will put jews in horrible tribulation and let others chill? God isn't racist or partial. Open your eyes
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
John 15:18-20 NKJV
I agree with Dr. Brown and others that the PreTrib Rapture is a false teaching. Short answer for me is like Dr. Brown if you spend time in the Word, you will not find a PreTrib Rapture. You can only find it after someone teaches it to you or walks you through it. Anyone can be "Solo Raptured" today if they die and stand before the Lord. Darby and Scofield and the history of the teaching reveals even more truth about it. And it is predominantly taught is the US and western churches. I cant imagine in countries where they are facing death for their faith in Christ this teaching would be believable. In my opinion this creates a false gospel that perpetuates easy believism, escapism and is a plague in the church similar to the "Sinners Prayer". JESUS said make disciples not converts, pick up your cross and follow Him.(Matthew 16:24) Narrow is the gate and difficult is the way that leads to life and there are few who find it (Matthew 7:14). May no one divide over this. God bless you all!
Jesus said he went to prepare a place for us. And if he goes to prepare a place for us then he will come back for us to bring us unto him.
Where does the post trib leave room for this verse? When would I get to see that mansion if Jesus comes and raptures us to conquer the world and create his millenial kingdom?
I am also curious if you think Jesus didn't understand the tradition Hebrew wedding when claiming us to be his bride?
I am also curious why the church suffers through the last week of Daniel but was not established in the first 69?
Why is is that tribulation is called "Jacob's trouble"? And who is Jacob in the Bible? Israel
Why is it that the church is not mentioned through the wrath of God in tribulation throughout Revelation?
Why does the book of Revelation say that certain Churches will be SPAIRED FROM THE HOUR OF TRIAL THAT CONSUMES THE WHOLE EARTH? Why not just say endure?
This is just scratching the surface of the pre trib rapture belief. I disagree with this video completely and think that you come to these conclusions by a lack of spirit and insight from God. I do know that your eschatology does not save you though... simply rewards will be given to those who understand the Word of God.
The Thessalonians were facing such heavy persecution that they started to believe judgement day - the day of the Lord had arrived. What scared and puzzled them was that Paul had previously encouraged them that Christ would soon snatch them out of this world PRIOR to that day.
He then had to write to them to correct this so they would remain encouraged.
Therefore, if Paul had any doubt that the rapture could occur after the start of the tribulation, his epistle becomes irrelevant and illogical.
The purpose of the 70th week is to bring judgment to an unrepentant world and bring Israel to salvation.
Our judgement has already been laid upon Christ at the cross.
To even imply that we still need to go through some judgment, either partially or totally, is blasphemy to the perfect redemption plan of God at calvary
Exactly!
Its also explained well in Mathew 13:24-43. The weeds and tares are gathered for burning before the wheat is gathered in the barn.
Good point
@@wserthmar8908Pre- trib is wrong
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and Holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
As you can read this is the FIRST FIRST FIRST RESURRECTION. And Christian were fighting against mark of the beast.
@@mynameis......23, I agree regarding pre-trib being wrong
"As in the Days of Noah..." (Luke 17:26-10)
What can we learn from the Days of Noah?
1. The wicked had no clue what was about to happen, while the righteous (Noah and family) knew and were prepared.
2. Judgment and salvation occur on the same day. The very day Noah and family were sealed in the ark, the rain fell. And "As in the days of Lot...", the very day Lot and family were guided out of Sodom, fire fell on the wicked.
Read about the 6th Seal (Rev 6:12 - 7:17) and consider the possibility that Christ's return, the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the rapture of the saints all happen on the same day... the day that the sun turns black and Jesus appears in the clouds. Consider also that the breaking of the 7th Seal (Rev 8:1-6) is the beginning of God's wrath and that the 6th Seal (salvation) and the 7th Seal (judgment) are broken on the same day.
When I think of the saints being martyred in end times, I immediately think of Stephen and his delight in being persecuted and murdered in the name of his Lord - how his face glowed by the Holy Spirit. He undoubtedly arrived to paradise with glory. I can only imagine the many saints during the tribulation that will be taken in similar manners during the great out-pouring of the Holy Spirit. In today's world we think worldly and not on eternal views. While dying in such a manner might seem horrific, its only a few moments in time, then comes great glory. Stay focused, be enduring in your faith and do not fear. The Lord promised that He would be with us through it all and the prize of crown(s) await.
The rapture and the second coming of Christ are often confused. Sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a scripture verse is referring to the rapture or the second coming. However, in studying end-times Bible prophecy, it is very important to differentiate between the two.
The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.
The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:
1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).
2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).
4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).
5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6-18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).
Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?
1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent-there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).
3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6-19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation-also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)-God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31).
The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.
The church is all over the book of revelation. Not sure which book you’re reading, but the book of Revelation is a huge description of the churches role in the tribulation
I have never been able to find the scriptural basis for a “secret rapture”.
Unexpected? Yes.
Sudden? Certainly.
Secret? I don’t know the contextual verse or verses that clearly (without inference) show it.
@@XX-bo5pb revelations is gods judgement and Israel salvation
@@Joel-dl1mx for the record, there's no such thing as the Secret Rapture because the Secret Rapture is a myth!
Except for the real rapture we and others need to see with our own eyes 👀
@@burleyant274 yes, I am 100% in agreement with you.
Jesus said ... immediately after the tribulation..
Jesus said a LOT of things, but He never said He's coming for the church AFTER the tribulation. You've _s k i p p e d_ and skated thru an entire chapter to draft THREE words from a passage where you've not even taken the time to establish the CONTEXT. You're guilty of contextomy brother.
@elizabethramirez2517 You're resorting to defining WORDS on your own terms it seems, 'eh? Just like Mr Bill Clinton when his sin was found out, & in his interrogation he said, "It depends on what the meaning of *IS* is".
Look, we could ask a GRADE SCHOOL child if there's a difference between coming *FOR,* & coming *WITH,* & they would u/stand. At the RAPTURE, Christ does NOT...I repeat, does *NOT* "_c o m e_" all the way to earth, however @ the *2nd* coming, He DOES "come" to earth.
There's the coming *FOR* the saints & the rapture, & coming *WITH* the saints @ the 2nd coming. If there's no rapture that precedes the "COMING" to earth, & He only "COMES" @ what we point to as the 2nd advent, then there are a *HOST* of things that can't be reconciled with the Word. Some of the _MANY_ things that scenario has problems with...
*1* You literally get *John 14:3* sdrawkcab & TwiStEd, for the verse makes quite clear, that @ the rapture, WE go to where HE is...He's not coming to where WE are. HE receives us...WE don't receive Him.
*2* Both the marriage & the Bema take place in heaven, & having ONLY a 2nd coming where there's no RAPTURE in advance, you're literally scrubbing HEAVEN from the believer's future.
Like I say, there's a *HOST* of other issues with a "POST-trib" rapture position, but hey...all the best to you in your search for truth, & *MARANATHA!*
@elizabethramirez2517No, he’s saying you don’t know how to read the scriptures.
2:43. No, it is not one event.
Matthew 24:39-31 and 1st Thessalonians 4:16-18 are not the same event.
They are different in context. Matthew 24 is in reference to the Redemption of Israel. When the Son of Man descends directly down to the Mount of Olives and executes the judgment of separating the wheat from the tares.
1st Thessalonians 4:16-18 is written to the Church, concerning the resurrection and our meeting Jesus in the air.
Matthew 24:29-31 is separate from 1st Thessalonians 4:17. Who is speaking? Who are they speaking to?
The contexts are different. It’s not complicated
1st Thessalonians 4:16-18, Pre tribulation rapture
And then Matthew 24:29-31, Second Coming of Jesus to Reign the Millennial Kingdom!
Ppl of God let's live "rapture" ready. Whether it be pre, mid or post...watch therefore because you do not know the hour when our Lord shall come/return Matthew 24vs 42🙏
No one knows the truth for pre tribulation or post either way the commandments are the same. Salvation is through the Lord Jesus Christ and no one one earth can save you.
Actually, the very mission Jesus gives the Church is to save sinners by giving them God's grace (Mark 16:15). Read carefully.... "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." (1 Tim 4:16)
The saving is saving from the second death not being saved from this planet ...Jesus prays to his father a nice long prayer about- protecting the disciples.. I don't pray that you take out of the world but keep them from the evil..
we disciples are saving people daily by telling the world the gospel...saved by faith into the grace of God...Rom 5:1,2
I don't think you are right about this. First of all Paul talks about judgement here. Focus is Christ's coming for his righteous takeover. That is why Paul makes such a complex scentence. He just does not define how much earlier the rapture/gathering happens and clearly he describes Christ's glorious coming with saints for the judgement of unrighteous ... I stay with pre-tribulation stand. Judgement of saints= rapture/gathering, judgement of unrighteous = second coming in glory and fire... if you put them in same scentence because of focus on judgement it does not mean they happen at the same time... God bless you and keep you! 🔥😎👍
He does define it . He says you who are troubled receive your rest WHEN THE LORD IS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS IN FLAMING FIRE TAKING VENGEANCE ON THOSE WHO KNOW NOT GOD....that's what it says WHEN he says when clearly .
Jordan Goodman but grant relief to who? Could it be Israelites? Could it be those believers during the 7 year tribulation?
@@bentonvillefamily Yes! Spot on brother! Like many erroneous teachings, the post-tribulation rapture fails in its lack of distinction between Israel and the Church.
@@bentonvillefamily the problem with that question is that it takes away any meaning to those Paul was writing to. We have to understand it in light of the context of the letter and authorial intent.
If the pre-trib rapture is so clearly taught by the Bible, why is it that nobody but nobody taught it until 200 years ago? When you read the writings of the early Church Fathers, you will find that every one of them who wrote about the end times taught post-trib rapture.
You are mistaken about the early church fathers and their position...if THAT is what you're banking on to support and validate your position. Regardless, the closed canon (bible), needs to be our final authority. But as far as early church believers go, most all of them taught a *PRE* tribulation position, not a post position. Consider these...
"You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then you prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord *it will be possible for you to escape it* if your heart be pure and spotless, and you spend the rest of the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly" (from the The Shepherd of Hermas).
Irenaeus wrote in his treatise, _Against Heresies_ the following...
"Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance - in fact, as nothing; so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, *when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this* it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.* For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption".
Ephraim the Syrian who lived from 306-373 in a work titled _On The Last Times 2_ said, "Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time.
Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” *For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world* because of our sins."
Shalom
@@Kman. dude was an orthodox can’t trust him
@@raedradha6403 I spoke of *THREE* yet you're referring to "A" person(?). Either way, who are you trying to fool, because your comment is flat out logically fallacious.
Should you want a list of *OTHERS* who will validate & support a *PRE-tribulation* rapture, let me know...ugh, better yet, a cursory search will net you with a number of them. And if you want to pass over early church leaders, there are *PLENTY* of folks that can be listed who made their mark *PRIOR* to 200 years ago like the other poster stated. Better yet...
It is the closed canon of scriptures that are used so substantiate the position...I don't know what you use to fall back on, as you've only offered an objection with nothing to prop up what it is you believe. Cheers~~~:)
@@Kman.I suggest you get a more rounded view by researching this,
THE RAPTURE IN TWENTY CENTURIES OF BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION - The Master's Seminary tms.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/tmsj13e.pdf
Dr. Brown, I agree with you on a lot of things, however this is one thing that I would have to disagree with you on. While not explicitly stated in the scripture, we can infer from the Old Testament that God's unchanging. While the world was flooded, he called out Noah to save him, while Lot was in the midst of Sodom and Gammorah, God called him to leave. All throughout the Old Testament you see the people of God taken out of what they would consider their tribulations BEFORE the punishment was given.
Since God is unchanging, we could assume that that day of wrath is not reserved for Bible Believing Christians.
One verse that comes to mind is Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
Christ declaring that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE shows that it would be impossible for this to occur. If that's the case, would that mean that the elect are no longer here to be deceived? Again, you've studied this far more than I have, and I'm not just going to wait around for a Rapture to happen because that's not what Christ has called us to do.
Again, I love the dialogues that you share, and look forward to more in the coming future.
God didn't take them out of the world. He just protected them...Noah stayed, he was just shielded in the ark.
The Church is not a type of Noah (saved through to continue on the earth), we're a type of Enoch (which explains the Rapture of the Church).
Hebrews 11:5 KJV
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
@@cjpark5748 @cj park Can you be one of those brought through alive? The Jews God supernaturally protects for 3.5 years in Israel and brings through alive to the Millennium (a type of Noah) will first believe the Anti-Christ is the Messiah. You already know the A.C is Satan.
Church Age Believers (a type of Enoch) will be completely spared from Jacob's trouble and return to earth with Jesus after a 7-year Marriage Supper. How does the Church go up in a post Trib Rapture AFTER we come down from Heaven with Him? We will be unaffected by the Millennium or the 2nd Resurrection. We already have eternal life.
Hebrews 11:5 KJV
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
God is unchanging in character but it doesnt mean He cant change the way He does things because we cannot always predict what God will do next, that is His mystery, but we can always predict who He will always will be.
@@buckle-upbuttercup9345 still doesn't make sense. Enoch wasn't in tribulation or suffering at the time. Enoch was just a special case. Noah was in tribulation and he preached to those people to change just like Believers today are supposed to preach.
I grew up in a church that taught the pre-tribulation Rapture.
The more I have studied the Bible myself, after spending time away from the Lord and the Church as a season of being a prodigal daughter, I have come to the same conclusion as you, Dr Brown.
I too stepped aside from teachers and everything going on in the visible church. When I started reading again, thats when you see the scriptures in the light of truth, even tho I dont totally have a full picture, I know that I will be here if God wills, to be His witness to the people around me in the great tribulation hour.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The New Covenant: Bob George
th-cam.com/video/Rj7NQffg_NE/w-d-xo.html
Ohhh are you sure about that? Read revelation 3:10
@@TheUniqueMoon5 keep us from the hour of trial, temptation, doesn't prove taken away off the earth, this means something else and not pretribulation
@@nonegiven9727 yes, just like in the Lord's prayer when he said, keep us from temptation.
The context here is the wrath of man associated with persecution.
The Tribulation is the wrath of God and it’s an hour of testing for the unbelievers (“dwellers of the earth.”)
Two very different things!
Context context context.
Context is king.
Yes it's so clear.❤
How does one explain this scripture Jesus will receive us to Himself, and not us to receive Him (John 14:2-3).
Jesus said He would prepare a place for the Church in heaven, and then He would come again to receive us to Himself. Why would Jesus prepare a place for us in heaven and then not take us there? At the Rapture, He will come to receive us to Himself, "that where I am (heaven), there you may be also." If the Rapture occurred at the same time as the Second Coming, we would go up to the clouds and then immediately come back to earth. That would contradict John 14:2-3.
Rapture Jesus doesn’t come to earth we meet Him in the Air... second coming is when we come down here with Him to rule with Him
And how does one explain Jesus returns from the wedding.
When Jesus returns to earth at the Second Coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the Rapture, Jesus is married to His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth.
I believe Rapture and the second coming are two different events. The reason being just because one believes in a Pre-Trib or Post-Trib rapture does not make it a false doctrine. What is important is you must be ready to be raptured when Jesus comes , or endure the tribulation...at whatever point He comes.
Products are "prepared" in country A and shipped off or delivered to country B all the time.
The new Jerusalem will DESCEND from Heaven to the new Earth...
Rev. 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God...
I hope that helps!
Of all the hundreds of generations that have existed why would the last one be the only one that has to go through the tribulation?
Because, generally speaking, it's the most lukewarm as represented by the church of Laodicea:
Rev. 3
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
The bible tells the exact time when the rapture takes place, and it takes place during the tribulation and to be specific during the 4th trumpet of God, just read the verses below and you will see that they are part of the same story, the rapture and the 4th trumpet of God,
mic dropped.
Matthew 24:29-31
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Revelation 8:12-13
The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened, and a third of the day might be kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night.
Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
@Anninos Christoforou The great falling away comes before the tribulation that is the beginning .... I think if pre trib is wrong then the people who believe it will focus on the Lord and know what is going on. I honestly don't know what's the truth about the rapture and I think its an area that both has valid scripture proof and believes. I will point out that salvation is through Jesus Christ and those who know him can not be deceived. So don't be so quick to throw out doctrine of devil's when its a minor disagreement. What where Jesus most important commandments?
The ministry at my local church does get everything right (Salvation through Jesus, walking like Jesus Christ, etc.) EXCEPT the Tribulation, they from time to time warn about the pre-trib rapture whenever they do gospel seminars, but I'm now convinced about the post-tribulation... should I say something to my brothers and sisters there? God bless
@Anninos Christoforou AMEN
Talk about divide and conquer
There's a reason why Jesus said these words in Matthew 24. To encourage us to endure during the last days, not for any "escape "/"pre-rapture". I believe Jesus' words stand the test of time & are to be trusted💯
4 Jesus told them, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, 5 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah.’ They will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and threats of wars, but don’t panic. Yes, these things must take place, but the end won’t follow immediately. 7 Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world. 8 But all this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come.
9 “Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers.[b] 10 And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. 11 And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. 12 Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
So whenever in doubt, do the safest thing, believe in what the Bible says. Read also what Paul says in Acts 14:22
Also in 2 Thessalonians 2 the whole chapter
Question #1: If the rapture occurs at the second coming, who will populate the millennium? According to the post-tribulation rapture theory, at the second coming all Christians will receive resurrected bodies and all lost people go to the lake of fire. Who will be left to repopulate the world during the millennium? Because people in their resurrected bodies can’t reproduce (Matt. 22:30), it will require people in their natural bodies.
(Answer: These are people saved after the rapture.)
That is not correct. The post-tribulationist does not believe that. The only ones thrown into the lake of fire are the beast and the false prophet. And clearly those who will die at that time are those who are present for the war against Israel. Not everyone will go to fight against them nor is everyone marked by the beast, the Bible does not say that. So it still fits perfectly with the biblical narrative. In Zechariah it indicates that one must go up to worship, and whoever does not do so will not have provision. That gives us an image that even with Jesus as king there will be people who will prefer not to follow him, in fact in the final attack of Satan after the thousand years says that his army will be large. The bible speaks then of a large population in the world. I don't see the contradiction, based on the fact that argument in itself is not part of the belief.
Certainly Dr Brown has a handle on a number of bible subjects/doctrines, but I'll have to agree to disagree with him on this one.
Now, while he uses *II Thess 1:5-8* as a _strong_ passage to support his position, it doesn't afford time for the sheep/goat separation found in *Matt 25,* nor does it allow time for the Judgment Seat of Christ that is found in *II Cor **5:10**.*
Matthew 25 is about unbelievers being taken away, not believers. Just as in Noah's day, the believers remained, and the unbelievers were swept away. So this is the opposite of a rapture. Also what does the 2 Cor passage have to do with a rapture? I'm not following your argument here
@@BuildingApologetics As far as *II Cor **5:10* goes, I u/stand this to have taken place *PRIOR* to the 2nd coming, as the rapture and the 2nd coming are TWO DISTINCT events, & they're not rolled into one like the position that Dr Brown holds to.
I find that to be supported by *Rev 19:7* where it says, that when Christ DOES return _WITH_ his bride, the bride is *"READY".* I take that to mean, that if they're "READY", the Bema Seat has already taken place: "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and HIS WIFE HATH MADE HERSELF READY".
With the rapture/2nd coming being a single event, there would be no time for that judgment to have taken place.
Explain how the church that’s coming back with Jesus at Armageddon will meet themselves on earth as they are also raptured. Makes zero sense.
spot on
When I studied the bible for myself also, I saw no evidence for Pre-trib rapture.
The Book of revelation chapter 5:9 and they sang a new song saying You are worthy to take the scroll and to open the seals For You were slain And have redeemed us to God By Your Blood out of every tribe and tongue and People and Nation.
Out Here we find people of every tribe and tongue and nation before the throne room of God. Even before the Beginning of Tribulation we find people out of every tribe and tongues and nations. Even before the seals and the scrolls are open we find ourselves in Heaven. We are there before the throne and singing Jesus You are worthy to open the scrolls and seals. If we are not in heaven before the Tribulation begins in Chapter 6 then who are these People mentioned in Chapter 5?? In chapter 4:4 we find 24 elders 12 from the old Testament and 12 are the 12 disciples of Christ. So if there is the mention of 12 elders then we also will be there. Because inorder for the 12 elders to be in Heaven they have to be raised from the dead. As Jesus said the dead in Christ will rise first so the 12 elders will rise and caught up in the air with us. The Book of Revelation is progressive. Firstly we find the Church and the letters written to the Churches. Jesus also said to the Church of philadelphia that He would keep them out of the hour of trial that will come upon the whole earth. Jesus also said in the Gospel that we ought to watch and Pray that we would be counted worthy to escape all these things the Tribulations. In Revelation 4:1 John heard a Shout from heaven come up. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, what's is the Shout?? The Shout is come up. John heard that shout come up before the Tribulation. The Book of Thessalonians also tells us that we are not appointed for the day of wrath(7 years Tribulation) Jesus said I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not Prevail against it. The Church is hindering for the Antichrist to be revealed and so unless the Church is removed the antichrist will not be revealed. These are only some of the Biblical proof through which I believe in Pre-tribulation Rapture. Now here is another Proof. Jesus said no one knows the time of His coming not the angles, not even He Himself, but only the Father. So if Rapture happens after the Tribulation we will certainly be able to say or point out a out about His coming. And there is another thing that I would like to point out, and that is we have the second Coming of Christ and no third coming. When we talk about the second coming or the coming of Christ we talk about His coming on the earth. His first coming on the earth was 2000 years ago and His second coming will be after the Tribulation according to the Book of revelation. So lastly Just look up to revelation chapter 4:4 where we find the 12 elders which obviously they have to be Raptured and Revation chapter 5:9,10 where we find People out of every tribe and tongue and nation redeemed by the Blood of Jesus and all of these before the throne of God the 12 elders and People out of every tribe and tongue and Nations. All of these appear before even the seals and scrolls are opened. Does this not tell us that Rapture happens before the Tribulation?? It does. I thank God that He helped me see this from the Scripture. And This is the Bible Proof on why I believe in Pre Tribulation Rapture
@@rickylimbu3668 I think you need to follow up your scriptures to Revelation 7 to see the sealing of God's servants who are still on the Earth.
You are not more special to escape tribulations when the early Church themselves faced it.
Pre Trib is a Fable that Mocks the Words of Jesus!
@USA MMA If there was any truth or proof of a pre tribulation rapture this argument wouldn't exist and we'd all be on the same page .
@@skylightoutdoors7374 Not necessarily true Jordan..[ I am 73 and have studied eschatology for over 40 years].Evangelism instructor, sunday school teacher, [ many courses in Bible college.....multiple secular Univ. degrees]..the truth or proof of any biblical doctrine will be exposed in your exegesis and hermeneutics, even using the same scriptures to support opposing sides of the argument. That is the reason that we have the Calvinism versus Armenian debate, the present work of the Holy Spirit in the cessation/ non cessation debate and a multitude of lesser important doctrines. I am still on the fence with the pre or post trib doctrine as the Lord has not chose to positively prove me to either side. What He has done is convince me that it is imperative that we be ready and willing to undergo any amount of persecution as He deems necessary and that we get the Gospel out to all who will listen, receive and respond as time is growing short ![ Of that, we should have little doubt.] If we are prepared...the pre/post trib argument does not really matter..I am going to ask the Lord why... was it so difficult for us to understand the truth of the main doctrines that Have divided the Church over time? That is the bigger question to me...I am so happy that the Lord made the Gospel of Jesus Christ simple enough for us to understand and respond...yes we can even argue the finer points of soteriology but God's plan of Redemption is a guiding light onto our feet. Maranatha...see you in Glory..db
100000% percent truth. One event. ALL EYES WILL SEE.
1)Direct proofs of pre-trib rapture:
-> Rev 3:10, Luke 21:34-36, All of Rev chapter 12
-> The first two references are obvious but the strongest proof is found in Rev 12. The Woman is the church. The firstborn caught up tp heaven are the saints in the chuch who will be raptured. The Woman after giving birth is still the church but is now the "left behind" church.
2)Refutation for Dr.Browns argument from 2 Thess 1:5-8:
-> Even pre-trib rapture does not disagree that the second coming will be the redemption of all saints and final victory over satan. After all during the rapture only some saints who are found sinless before God when he comes a theif will be taken up.
-> Also even after the pre-trib rapture satan will still be around, so even the raptured saints will be eagerly awating to come down to with the LORD during his second coming to see GOD's vengance and victory over the anti-christ, false prophet, satan and their believers
-> In short: Even in pretrib rapture doctrine it makes perfect sense that the second coming is the final redemption not the rapture
3)Refutation for the best argument against pre-trib:
-> The strongest counter-argument for the pre-trib rapture is Matt 24:29-31.Thats because during the second coming (after the rapture) there will be a gathering of belivers all over the world to meet Christ for Armageddon/Second Coming. During this gathering there wont be glorification of the body because those who pass through the 7 year tribulation are the only ones left to enter the 1000 year rule of christ where there will still be death (Isaiah 65:20), so if there is no glorification in this gathering than it is not the rapture (1 Thess 4:15-18) but is merely to transport all the saints of God still on Earth to meet the LORD Jesus and his Saints who come down with him (some of whom will be the rapture saints) like God had transported Philip supernaturally in Acts 8:38-40.
-> Now if you still are not convinced about Matt 24:29-31 not being the rapture, its actually part of a teaching the LORD gave about the end times and it's present in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. Now this is important because Luke 21 contains one of the direct pre-trib rapture proofs (Luke 21:34-36) Matt 24:29-31 is repeated in Luke 21:25-28 AND AFTER Jesus talks about this gathering at the second coming he later mentions how we can escape all these things, i.e. the sufferings of the Great Tribulation, in Luke 21:34-36. So these two are different events
Edit: I apologise to everyone who replied to me since I heavily added to my comment and you guys probably replied before you saw 2) and 3), although the original comment i made in 1) is still unchanged
Revelation 3:10 Is not pre tribulation rapture proof . Because you have kept my commandments I will keep you from the hour of trial . " KEEP BY THE WAY HAS MULTIPLE DEFINITIONS , PRESERVE, PROVIDE SUSTENANCE FOR AND MORE .....Anyways those that keep the commandments are kept .....but in revelation 12 war is being waged on those that keep the commandments of God . Interesting but sure whatever helps you sleep at night
Ankith Devanaboina
Interesting 🧐 like a hybrid view of the two... it kind of makes sense when you think about the parable of the wise and unwise virgins. Bith groups are still virgins yet one was prepared and the other wasn’t... it als kind of makes sense when you think about Jesus addressing the churches at the beginning of Revelation.. only one group is kept from the “hour of temptation”. I assume the others that he addresses are not kept
And the saints have war waged on them as well so they obviously didn't get caught up anywhere
@@skylightoutdoors7374 Yea you are right that "keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world" could possibly mean that we are kept through the tribulation not kept outside of the tribulation. Now you actually proved yourself that the best interpretation is kept outside of the tribulation because those who are in the tribulation will still be martyred even though they are faithful to God! What do you think about Luke 21:34-36 Brother?
@@superjam18 Im not sure why you call it a hybrid view. In pre-trib rapture view it's always the case that we have both the rapture and second coming. Maybe you are talking about the fact that just like there is a gather in the rapture there is also a SEPERATE gathering during the second coming which is not the rapture?
edit: accidentally wrote post trib rapture view when I meant to say pre-trib rapture view
I don’t think so, there’s a pre-tribulation rapture to meet Lord Jesus in the air for marriage supper of the lamb. We are not appointed to wrath.
Show me one verse that says we’ll be raptured before the tribulation. I can show you a verse that says immediately after the tribulation of those days.
@@BeingConsciousness-yw3zw LOL...the "CHALLENGE" is it? No disrespect, but hey...we all know what verse you're speaking of *SMH*
There's no silver bullet, ONE VERSE that supports either position, but allow me to weigh in if I may...
1st off, for you to just try and snatch *THREE WORDS* from the bible that happen to be consecutive ("after the tribulation), makes you guilty of pulling s/thing from scripture *OUT OF CONTEXT* to try to support what it is you believe. The argument is actually quite weak, & worn out...easy to refute once you put it in context & u/stand just what it's speaking about. Number "NEXT"...
If you're wanting *ONE* verse to support a *PRE-tribulation* rapture, there's actually a few, but here...
*Rev 3:10* provides ample support for the position where it states, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
I don't mind sharing what I believe the verse to mean (if you're not familiar), but if you know of the verse and are wanting to fire back and say, "That's not proof!" or s/thing along those line, please...go ahead and take a stab at sharing why the verse does *NOT* support a *PRE-tribulation* rapture, and offer up your explanation of the verse at the same time :)
@@Kman. Rev 3:10 has no mention of the word tribulation, or anything about a rapture in this verse. You're reading that verse with a preconceived idea. Temptation does not equal tribulation. The Bible does not relate (even symbolically) the tribulation to 1 hour. Revelation 14:7 which takes place after the antichrist making war with the saints says "Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the HOUR of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." So Rev 3.10 could be referring to the hour of God's wrath coming. By the way, it says "is come" which would indicate that it had not come before that time. The tribulation is not God's wrath, it's the antichrist making war the saints (Christians)
Look at every mention of the word "hour" in Revelation. It's always related to God's wrath poured out on the wicked world AFTER the tribulation. Please take a King James Bible and align Matthew 24:5-31 with Revelation 6 and you'll see that they match perfectly.
@@BeingConsciousness-yw3zw Your assumption is fallacious. Here...
For you to say that *Rev 3:10* has no mention of the WORD "tribulation" is no argument at all. Must you see T-R-I-B-U-L-A-T-I-O-N spelled out for the verse to take on a what is clearly being described? The fact is, the WORD "rapture" is not found in the bible either, so again...that's no argument. You conveniently took a pass on explaining then just what the verse means and only stated, "That's not what it means".
You're incorrect about the tribulation not being spoken of in different terms, when in *FACT* it's spoken of *NOT* just an "HOUR", but also a "DAY"...a "TIME"...a "PERIOD", and a "WEEK". I'm sure you're aware of the verses/passages that note the uses of those words, so that too takes the wind out of any argument (or lack thereof) you're wanting to suggest.
You also made a truth statement ("The tribulation is not God's wrath..."), yet you stated such with *ZERO* supporting evidence. Again...do you have to read a verse that says, "Yes my beloved...the tribulation is the wrath of God" for you to see that it is?
You would agree that when *GOD* flooded the earth, that that indeed was His "WRATH", right? Yet you won't find any verses using the word "WRATH" when it speaks of the flood. This further deflates any "argument" you're wanting to provide. But again...
Take time to break down...unpack...exegete...speak to...or however you'd like to term it, but do so with *Reve **3:10* as opposed to basically saying, "It aint so" and just move on, because there is *MUCH* in the verse that can be opened up to enlighten you to the truth, that yes...we *WILL* be kept *FROM* a period of time known as the tribulation~~~:)
@@Kman. Please take a few minutes and read how Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 match up perfectly with Revelation 6 and prove a Post trib, pre wrath rapture
Revelation 6: 1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
Matthew 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mark 13: 5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Luke 21: 8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Revelation 6: 3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
Matthew 24: 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
Mark 13: 7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
Luke 21: 9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
Revelation 6: 5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Matthew 24: 7 and there shall be famines
Mark 13: 8 and there shall be famines and troubles
Luke 21: and famines
Revelation 6: 7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Matthew 24: 7 and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mark 13: 8 and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
Luke 21: 11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
Revelation 6: 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Matthew 24: 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mark 13: 9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Luke 21: 12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
Matthew 24: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (THE ELECT IS HERE FOR THE TRIBULATION)
Mark 13: 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Revelation 6: 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mark 13: 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Luke 21: 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Revelation 6: 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mark 13: 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Luke 21: 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Revelation 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Dr Brown,
If the rapture occurs at the second coming as you are suggesting how does the earth get repopulated during the millennial kingdom if all believers recieve their glorified bodies at the second coming?
Do unsaved people enter into the millennial kingdom? If so what scripture supports this?
Can people who have glorified bodies be given in marriage and bare children? If so what scripture supports this as well?
The bible teachers some believers will be gathered up and some will be left behind the ones who are left behind will repopulate the earth when Jesus sets his kingdom on earth and the ones who ate in heaven will be sent out to bring the Gospel un to the people remember just because you refuse the devils mark and hide in the woods doesn't mean u was a christian as not just christians gonna be hiding.
@@Trumpmakeliberalscryagian
Just one problem your either a believer or an unbeliver there are no in-betweens now or then.
If the rapture occurs at the second coming that would mean every believer that is alive on earth would recieve their glorified bodies.
Unsaved people can not enter into the millennial kingdom john 3 3 says you must be born agian to see the kingdom of God and the millennial kingdom is God's kingdom on earth.
Mathew 13 30 50 mathew 25 41 makes it very clear that the unsaved people that are alive on earth when jesus returns are cast into the lake of fire before the millennial kingdom begins.
So if the rapture occurs at the second coming there is no way the earth gets repopulated during the millennial kingdom the only way the earth gets repopulated during the millennial kingdom is via a pre daniels 70th week catching away.
The people who become born agian believers during daniels 70th week and survive to see Jesus return to earth are the sheep in the sheep and goat judgement they are born agian believers and still in their natural bodies and can be given in marriage and bare children. Its their children and grandchildren etc...who repopulate the earth.
@@tonyeaton671 if you look into revelation you can see that not all who believed in Jesus will be taken during the second coming as only a 3rd of each national will be taken And revelation also tells us those who worship and received the devils mark will be cast into hell then those who has not received the mark will live in peace for a thousand years while satan is in chains and God will send his priest out into the world to proclaim the words of God to those who was left behind for a thousand years until satan gets released for the last time to make war with Heaven and Earth.
@@Trumpmakeliberalscryagian can you give the verse of scripture that says a third of each nation?
@@Trumpmakeliberalscryagian
Did you ever find that scripture that days one third of every nation will enter into the millennial kingdom?
Orthodoxy has taught and believed this for many, many years.
Perhaps the most compelling argument against the pre/mid tribulation rapture theory is that no Christian believed it or even knew about it for the first 1800 years of Christianity. When it comes to Christianity, the “faith once delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3), there is simple rule: “if its new, it just can’t be true!”
What you said is flat out incorrect. A cursory search will yield much to deflate & debunk what you said. Either...
*A* You've not studied up on the matter & you're just parroting what you've heard/read, or...
*B* You know it to be incorrect & you're not honest about it.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're just not researched it on your own.
@@Kman. it's ok. believe what you want. No problem. :-)
This isn't hard folks.
1 Corinthians 15:51-58
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trumpet.
Dr. Brown is correct. It's all one event. It's called The Day of the Lord.
Dr loved your teachings for years.....but this one is really a weak argument. That verse didn’t even speak of end times events .....sorry I’ll stick with Jesus on what he said ....we are not appoint to wrath, Jesus said as it was in Noah and Lot’s days so shall it be when He returns....all I know was this, not one rain drop fell on Noah he was lift above it and not one brimstone fell on lot’s head and Lot looked down on the destruction. Both were saved from it. I’ll see birth pains before Jesus comes but not His wrath.
Both Noah and Lot remained on the earth, but were saved from wrath. Neither were raptured/harpazo'd/caught up. Lot did not look down on the destruction, or he would have suffered the same fate as his wife.
John Plummer yes Lot did look down on the destruction....we was on the mountain tops.....plus Noah was above the waters.....
@@nightday5080 Yes, we are not appointed to wrath.Also the antichrist must be revealed before the rapture and he does not show up at the end.He has a job to attack Israel.
But look at the Israelites, they were in Egypt when God brought the ten plagues. God kept them safe. God didn’t take them out until the plagues were over.
@@wem-c9f Christians will go through the tribulation and we must trust God to be safe but the Great Tribulation is when Christians will be killed for the faith.Then comes the cosmic signs before we are raptured.Tribulation period is satan doing the damage with God's consent like with Job.After the rapture Christians are gone up and God's wrath is poured out.
Great little video Dr Brown. Spoken in love and with conviction :)
@Anninos Christoforou The "great falling away"? Are you wanting to use *II Thess 2:3* to support that position? I would argue o/wise. In addition to offering up a single verse to support what you said, could you please exegete the passage of scripture to validate that? I will take an alternate position.
Post trib pre wrath. As it has always been.
That is correct
Great job with the Bible reading. BUT you missed a lot.
I mostly agree but I am not sure completely. I think Christ returns in the clouds in 14:14-16 just before the seven last plagues. I am not sure I can reconcile the image of the sickle however instead of a trumpet except that no reason is given other than to harvest the souls on the earth BEFORE the second angel uses his sickle in the "great winepress of God". 1 Corinthians 15:52 says the rapture will take place at "the last trumpet". The last trumpet sounding in revelations is in chapter 9, so this trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 may not be listed in the revelations event and it is as you say, at the return of Christ to the earth, or it is in the analogy of the sickle. Either way we as Christians go through most of the tribulation or all of it. 1Thes 4:15-17 says we which "remain to the coming of the Lord" which I believe references remaining alive after most of the earths population has already died. I am just not convinced either way yet because the reference is meeting him in the clouds, not on earth. This is key... The second coming during the tribulation can be broken down into him coming in the clouds.. and then all the way to the earth.
1st Thessalonians 4:14-18 and 1st Corinthians 15:51-52 is definitely pre-tribulation rapture before 7 years of tribulation 2023-2030!
@@burleyant274 I do not agree so lets look at it together. 1 Thes 4:14-17
15, For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord shall not precede them which are asleep.
16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This is saying Christ has come back and is in the clouds. So if it was pretribulation is there going to be a third coming? I maintain this passage not only doesn't give credence to a pretribulation but adds more to credence for a his return after the 3.5 year (great tribulation but prewrath).
So lets look at
1 Cor 15:51-55
51, Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53, For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54, So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55, O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?
Again... nothing in it puts this as pretribulation. In fact the very statement found in vs 52 tells us otherwise... it is the LAST trumpet.. not the first. If this is specific to the later days there are 6 trumpets that have to blow first per Revelation.
I do not mean to disallusion you brother but we will have to go through at least part of the tribulation. We are no better than ANY martyr today in other countries who routinely stand on their faith on penalty of death. Our Lord was crucified and all the apostles but John were martyred. Why would we think that we are somehow better than they are?
Math 24:29-31 is a trump card for the timing (and no.. this was not about the Jews. He was talking to his apostles who were messianic Jews. The elect are his believers who stand in the later days regardless of the cost. Vs 29 is AFTER the tribulation of those days and AFTER the sign of the coming of the Son of man in the clouds.
29, Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30, And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31, And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
@@burleyant274 I disagree. Nothing in those passages indicate a pre tribulation rapture. Coming as a thief in the night was toward those that were not watching. It had nothing to do with those watching for they would know the season so the pre-empt of taking the church before the tribulation is not valid since we will not be caught off gaurd no matter when it happens.
Also, why does the church even think that we will not endure what so many of our brothers and sisters have endured? Brothers and sisters are martyred almost daily so somehow we think we will be spared what they were not?
Mathew 10:21-22 states to the disciples
21, And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22, And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved.
That they had to endure to the "end" to be saved. End of what? Their affliction.
What does Math 24:12-13 state?
12, And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13, But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.
Again.. enduring to the end will be saved.
I am sorry brother but I do not believe we will be caught up before the tribulation begins.. We may be caught up before the bowls of wrath phase begins but I just do not see anything that alludes to a pre-tribulation rapture.
If the Lord did not come and save us, none would be saved.
Mark 13:20
20, And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he has chosen, he has shortened the days.
You are bastardizing Paul's work, but really Jesus's revelation, esp. in Thessalonians and Corinthians. Think about that for a minute. let it sink in. Paul clearly taught a pre-trib rapture. The thessalonian church believed that they had missed the Lord's coming, probably because someone taught no pre-trib rapture in between Paul's letters. Paul wrote in second Thessalonians that they had not missed it and that they had forgotten his teaching on it. then in 2 Thess. 2 Paul clearly indicates that there would be a "departure" before the man of lawlessness is revealed. DEPARTURE. The new editions of the bible call it falling away or apostasy, but much earlier versions, including the 4th century Vulgate have DEPARTURE. he apostasia can also mean departure, but in modern times it is more like rebellion. did you know that the word was likely transliterated during the time when the catholics and protestants were fighting? the KJV he apostasia was transliterated to mean falling away from faith or apostasy, but many earlier texts had departure. and this is just for this one phrase. let's not even go to the more conspicuous scripture on the matter.
You may have some bad "KHARMA," but you've got some good _DOKTURIN_ ~:)
Regardless if you believe in pre-tribulation or post or during. You need to understand that it's two separate events. Read 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 into chapter 5
Thessalonians wasn't meant to be a full account if the coming of Christ. Instead see Matthew 24. And revelation for example, "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days" it comes after the tribulation.
allot of people will fall short because of that doctrine. Atheists say "we'll see when Jesus comes" but they will loose out on salvation because there are no 2nd chances.
There's a reason he calls it the 2nd coming not the third.
There are no 3 comings.
@@estellexlx you are correct. The first coming is to the earth, and the second coming will be also, since Jesus will touch down in Mount of Olives. The rapture, meanwhile, is not a coming to earth but a meeting in the clouds. Where Jesus will fulfill His promise in John 14:3. So even with a separate rapture, there are still only two comings. It's actually post-tribbers who are confused about Second Coming. They say it is the same event as rapture. But they agree that we are not appointed to wrath, which they say are only the 7 bowls of the 7 last plagues after the 7th trumpet. So.. Jesus needs to come after the 7th trumpet, then again for Rev. 19/Matthew 24?
NEWS CONCERNING THE RAPTURE! The beheaded christians from revelation 20: 4-5 have gone through the great tribulation and take part in the first resurrection. In the rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17 the dead in Christ will rise first,before the living will be caught up together with them. This means that the rapture can not be before the tribulation!
the dead in Christ will indeed rise first. Your error is in assuming that there is only one resurrection.
First the believers in Matthew 27:52-53 when Jesus rose from the dead.
Second in 1 Thes. 4:13-18, which is pre-trib. Note that the trumpet here is administered by God Himself, as opposed to the 7 trumpets of Revelation and the one at the Second Coming in Matthew 24:31 which are all administered by angels. Angels will do the gathering at the Second Coming to separate wheat from tares, but at the rapture there is no mention of angels as Jesus Himself will take His bride home in fulfilment of His John 14:3 promise.
Third is the one in Rev. 20:5.
The mention of "first resurrection" here is not the usual cardinal order, otherwise there would be none before it, which thru the above i proved otherwise. Instead it is to contrast with that in Rev. 5:13, the second type of resurrection. John 5:29 explains it. The first resurrection is the resurrection of life. The second is the resurrection of condemnation for the great white throne judgment. So you see, it is actually possible to have three first resurrections.
Excellent! I used to believe in a pre-trib rapture when I was younger and a new Christian. Then as I studied and prayed, I learned that a pre-tribulation rapture theory forces someone to preach/teach/believe those "left behind" are saved by "another gospel" - which is a false gospel. If one studies Scripture carefully, they'll also come to the conclusion that the rapture and second coming of Jesus are the same event.
Kasie Morgan
Hi Kasie. Excellent point! Thank you. If our scripture is primarily based on Yeshua's second coming, what hope would the remnant hang on to if there is to be a pre-trib rapture?
@@anb.9386 The same hope the rest of us have
Agreed. Amen
@@anb.9386 The Book of revelation chapter 5:9 and they sang a new song saying You are worthy to take the scroll and to open the seals For You were slain And have redeemed us to God By Your Blood out of every tribe and tongue and People and Nation.
Out Here we find people of every tribe and tongue and nation before the throne room of God. Even before the Beginning of Tribulation we find people out of every tribe and tongues and nations. Even before the seals and the scrolls are open we find ourselves in Heaven. We are there before the throne and singing Jesus You are worthy to open the scrolls and seals. If we are not in heaven before the Tribulation begins in Chapter 6 then who are these People mentioned in Chapter 5?? In chapter 4:4 we find 24 elders 12 from the old Testament and 12 are the 12 disciples of Christ. So if there is the mention of 12 elders then we also will be there. Because inorder for the 12 elders to be in Heaven they have to be raised from the dead. As Jesus said the dead in Christ will rise first so the 12 elders will rise and caught up in the air with us. The Book of Revelation is progressive. Firstly we find the Church and the letters written to the Churches. Jesus also said to the Church of philadelphia that He would keep them out of the hour of trial that will come upon the whole earth. Jesus also said in the Gospel that we ought to watch and Pray that we would be counted worthy to escape all these things the Tribulations. In Revelation 4:1 John heard a Shout from heaven come up. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, what's is the Shout?? The Shout is come up. John heard that shout come up before the Tribulation. The Book of Thessalonians also tells us that we are not appointed for the day of wrath(7 years Tribulation) Jesus said I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not Prevail against it. The Church is hindering for the Antichrist to be revealed and so unless the Church is removed the antichrist will not be revealed. These are only some of the Biblical proof through which I believe in Pre-tribulation Rapture. Now here is another Proof. Jesus said no one knows the time of His coming not the angles, not even He Himself, but only the Father. So if Rapture happens after the Tribulation we will certainly be able to say or point out a out about His coming. And there is another thing that I would like to point out, and that is we have the second Coming of Christ and no third coming. When we talk about the second coming or the coming of Christ we talk about His coming on the earth. His first coming on the earth was 2000 years ago and His second coming will be after the Tribulation according to the Book of revelation. So lastly Just look up to revelation chapter 4:4 where we find the 12 elders which obviously they have to be Raptured and Revation chapter 5:9,10 where we find People out of every tribe and tongue and nation redeemed by the Blood of Jesus and all of these before the throne of God the 12 elders and People out of every tribe and tongue and Nations. All of these appear before even the seals and scrolls are opened. Does this not tell us that Rapture happens before the Tribulation?? It does. I thank God that He helped me see this from the Scripture. And This is the Bible Proof on why I believe in Pre Tribulation Rapture
@@anb.9386 There are multiple Rapture even after the pre Tribulation Rapture there is hope for the remnant
I’m not really sure where the idea comes from that the rapture actually starts the 7 year tribulation. Also, the 1st event (rapture) he comes for his followers/believers/saints while in the 2nd event (his return) he returns WITH his followers/saints. It’s unfortunate that this topic has ended so many friendships.
1. There is NO 7 year tribulation spoken of in the New Testament.
2. Jesus will have a second coming NOT a third coming, there will not be any secret pre tribulation rapture because it's not Biblical or in scriture.
This cat doesn't know scripture. 1st: Coming of the Lord, (Jesus receives his bride, Church resurrected and taken to the Fathers house)
2nd: The Day of the Lord (Jacobs trouble, Tribulation) 7 year wrath, the culmination of Gods covenant with ISRAEL!
3rd: Second coming of the Lord. We are with him!! We are also with him when he opens the scrolls. "We are NOT appointed to the Wrath"
The taking away (Greek: Harpazō Latin: Rapere French: Rapture) can happen anytime, only the Father of the groom knows the date and hour. Not at the end an appointed, stated period of time ...7 year tribulation.
No, we go through the tribulation but not the wrath.Th world is in tribulation now but the Israel peace deal has not been signed.See Daniel.
Huh? So the restrainer leaves before the tribulation?
Yes, that is what 2 Thes. 2:6-8 is saying. Restrainer is removed as Spirit-indwelt believers are raptured, anti-Christ is revealed and starts unleashing unrestrained evil for 7 years of trib, then Second Coming where anti-Christ is destroyed.
If God mostly mapped/dealing with Israel what happens to the rest of the church during the tribulation? And if this is the “worst event to happen to humans” I don’t think the Holy loving God would do that that to the church. everywhere else in the world accepted God, Israel hasn’t. It is during the tribulation where the left behind(which happens to be mostly Israel the rest are killed during destruction of the rapture) finally calls on the Lord for help and they are now believers.
Is the fire of vengeance in 2 Thess 1:5-8 connected with Revelation 20:9 after the thousand year reign?
If someone wrote a book on the end times about Matthew 24 and 2 Thess 2 and the book of Revelation in order for it to be correct in the future, what would be the correct study. The problem is the correct interpretation takes study. The following studies explain those passages of scripture.
MATTHEW 24
Many people have the context of Matthew 24 wrong. Many people don't know what happened on that day. This is what happened:
1. Matthew 24 1-2 was asked about the 2nd temple. This was done in the day time in public. Luke 21 37.
2. At that time Jesus gave Luke 21. Luke 21 had some parts about 2000 years future also.
3. So after hearing Luke 21, Jesus and the disciples walked to the Mount of Olives. On the Mount of Olives at night time, the disciples asked Matthew 24 3 about the ending of Luke 21.
4. These is a gap in time between Matthew 24 1-2 and Matthew 24 3. That makes all the difference in the world.
5. Let me rephrase Matthew 24 3 so people can understand. When will these things you talked about in Luke 21 earlier this day occur? And what will be the sign of your coming in Luke 21 24-28 and Luke 21 29-36 be?
6. Jesus was talking about the ending of 2 different ages in the end times in Matthew 24. Matthew 24 4-31 is in Daniels 70th week. There is no rapture in the 2nd half with Matthew 24 15-31. And Matthew 24 32-51 is the Pretrib rapture and has warnings for believers in this generation.
2 THESS 2
Many people are not understanding 1 Thess 5. That passage only has 2 events unlike 2 Thess 2 which has events in between. 1 Thess 5 has the rapture since we are of the day. We are sober. We are not appointed to wrath. And 1 Thess 5 has the day of the Lord at the 6th seal that starts as birth pangs on the wicked. 1 Thess 5 does not have the apostasy that will start after the pretrib rapture and 1 Thess 5 does not have the man of sin revealed at the 5th seal. Let me rephrase 2 Thess 2 so people can understand: Thessalonians do not be alarmed with a letter saying the day of the Lord at at the 6th seal has already started. That day will not start until the apostasy in the first half starts and the man of sin is revealed at the 5th seal midtrib. Now you know what is holding our gathering and all this evil to come. You are holding all this evil back. You are righteous and of the day. You are restraining all this back. There is no rapture in the 2nd half of Daniels 70th week after the antichrist is revealed midtrib.
THE BOOK OF REVELATION
How could everyone's interpretation of the end times be wrong? Could the literal interpretation of just three verses in the bible prove everyone wrong. These are the verses:
Zech 14 and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
In Rev 1:7 it says every eye will see Him referring to the 2nd coming. Meaning in Russia and America and Africa and China and Europe and every place on earth. This will be a supernatural event. Will that event literally happen at evening time in Israel? Are we limiting God with our understanding of Armageddon and battles? Can God gather armies supernaturally? Can God destroy all the wicked in the entire world in just one day? I have been saying on the very last day of Daniel's 70th week immediately after the tribulation, Zech 14:6-9 will literally be fulfilled. On that day many interpretations will be proven wrong. Zech 14 6-9 is the day in Matthew 24 29-31 and in the book of Revelation it is the day of the 7th trumpet and all 7 bowl judgments. In the book of Revelation that day is Rev 10 7 and Rev 11 15 and Rev 14 14 and Rev 19 11.
With the pretrib rapture in the Fig Tree passages and the parable of the 10 virgins, what are the differences between that event and known passages of the 2nd coming?
In the pretrib rapture, no man knows the day or the hour. No man knows the watch. No man will know if it will be in the evening time or the midnight watch or when the rooster crows or at dawn. These are the watches for the Feast of Trumpets. At the shout at midnight the righteous are taken and the unrighteous are left behind. The ones left behind later ask for the door to be opened for them also. There is no eternal judgment at the pretrib rapture. The ones left behind are only told to depart from the Lord. The bridegroom is going to the wedding. When He appears, we become like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. The separation does not mention what time of day it is. The judgment on that day is the ones left behind are with the hypocrites.
On the day of the 2nd coming the day will be known. It will be the last day of Daniels 70th week. The watch will be evening time in Israel. Only the hour will not be known but it will be sudden. The correct translation is I am coming suddenly. On that day the wicked are taken and the righteous are gathered on earth. There is eternal judgment on that day. Many are told to depart into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. The bridegroom is coming from the wedding. At His appearing the entire world mourns. The separation is in that night after the sun and moon are darkened. The judgment on that day is with unbelievers.
There is a lot of debate in terms of Paul's writings. He authored more than 3/5 of the New Testament and was not one of Christ's 12 disciples/Apostles.
Thank you Dr Brown! This may be a stupid question - what happens to those who reject Christ that are alive during Christ’s return? When is their judgement? And those who are dead in sin-? Resurrection to final judgement after Millennium?
I'd would argue *AGAINST* a post-trib rapture scenario, but to answer your question...
When Christ returns @ the end of the tribulation, the unsaved are taken away to judgment, i.e. the "supper of the great God" as noted in *Luke 17:34-37,* & *Rev 19:17.* ONLY the redeemed enter the millennial kingdom here on earth w/Christ.
Man I love this guy. I’ve been studying throughly the end time events and have always believed in a pre-tribulation rapture and I hope it’s pre-tribulation. But the fact of the matter is, it’s looking like post-tribulation. I haven’t quite decided what I believe on it though.
@The Way We Know awe thank you so much! That means a lot. God bless you!
@@chrisa.9977 ??? You're thanking him for WHAT? I do find it "amazing" that two different people can take the same book & come to a different conclusion on any given subject. However, I find *AMPLE* support of a pre-tibulation rapture...an event that is very distinct from His 2nd coming when His millennial reign begins.
@@Kman. one day I drew a timeline of scripture in order. It all made sense. Seriously, buy a huge piece of paper or huge chalk board or something and start with let’s say Matthew 24, in exact order of what Jesus says is going to happen write it down. Jesus tells us in order whats going to happen. And then associate those events with corresponding scripture in Book of Revelations, Daniel, the feasts, etc regarding eschatology of the end times.
@@Kman. 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
if you believe these two scriptures I’m quoting are two different events then yes it’s a pre-tribulation rapture, at least that’s one of the ways how this belief is supported.
I ask you then, one of these scriptures are the blowing of the 7th trumpet(2nd coming), which one? Plz answer. I believe their both the 7 trumpet and the term last trump means the last trump of Feasts of Trumpets, and the first trump is the onset of the tribulation (sound of the alarm) as in the Old Statement states. Look .. I’m not saying I’m right or wrong, this isn’t what I’m preaching to everyone, this is how i understand it.
Truly, I preach Christ crucified. It’s just nice though to have these conversations with fellow believers of Christ. God bless you all!
Check out Robert beaker, he can explain why there is a pre tribulation rapture!
If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent-there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30). Any thoughts on this?
Yes - If Doctrine has Contradictions should it be look at again?
Two Resurrections Right? Let's take a look.
(Paul is VERY Explicit in 1 Cor 15:00 with the whole chapter on the resurrection of the Belivers)
1 Cor 15:21-24 *** "resurrection order and then the end" *** (MUST READ)
Act 14:22 Go throuth many tribulations? Act 8:1
1) Is the Rapture the 1st Resurrection? Rev 20:4-5
2) Two Resurrections? Rev 20:6
2 Thess 1:5-12 *** Christ coming to be admired by "all" who believe? ***
2 Thess 2:1-4 Our gathering, the falling away, that day?
Matt 24:9 Matt 21-22 John 14:18-20 **Deliver you up to tribulation and kill you**
Matt 24:13 Call to endurance?
Book of John is very interesting on the resurrection in Christ words. (The Last Day)
John 11:24 Jesus with Mary on that day and the resurrection
John 6:39-40, 44, 54 all on the last day, day of the Lord?
1 John 3:2 When He is revealed we will be like him?
Rev 13:7-10 Saints are overcome?
Rev 7:13-14 Come out of great tribulation?
Rev 11:15-18 7th Trumpet is the 1st resurrection?
Yes I agree that we are NOT appointed unto Wrath but tribulation?
The rapture issue is really a simple matter that many people have greatly complicated over the years. How can it be simple? There are only 2 main scriptures you need to know. These are 1. Mt. 13:24-30 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed ears, then the weeds also appeared. “The owner’s servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “`An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, `Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “`No,’ he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’“
The 1st clue is "Let both grow together until the harvest." When you know when that time is you will have the answer. Does the Bible tell us when the harvest will be? Yes. Where in scripture is it? 2. The book of Revelation chapter 14; Re. 14:14-20 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one “like a son of man” with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia. [That is, about 180 miles (about 300 kilometres)]
The scripture in Matthew is a parable which is a story Jesus told to make a point. Every parable has truth in it even though some of the scenarios may not actually have happened exactly as described. So an explanation is needed.
Mt. 13:10-17 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “`You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ [Isaiah 6:9,10] But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it".
What about all the other scriptures about the rapture? Some are legitimate and some have nothing to do with it. This agrees with all the legitimate NT scriptures. I'll reference some here if you want to do further study: Mt. 24:30-31, I Th. 5:1-11, II Th. 2:1-12, I Co. 15:51-58.
So what’s ur take on it John
@@raedradha6403 So, the rapture and the second coming are different events. The rapture and the harvest of the earth (Rev. 14:14-20) are the same event. The second coming doesn't happen until after God has finished pouring out his wrath on the earth. We are not appointed to wrath and we won't be here during that time.
That is correct. Rev. 19 is about his second coming, also Zec. 14.
@@johnmclaughlin4496 the wrath isn't the tribulation.
@@estellexlx That is correct, but it is poured out during the last part of it. Re. 15:1 I saw in heaven another great and marvellous sign: seven
angels with the seven last plagues - last, because with them God’s wrath is completed. Re. 15:6 Out of the temple came the seven angels with the seven
plagues. They were dressed in clean, shining linen and wore golden sashes round their chests. Re. 15:7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls filled with the wrath of God, who lives for ever and ever. Re. 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no-one could enter the temple until
the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.
Re. 16:1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven
angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”
I also grew up believing in a pre-tribulation rapture. However, when I started studying the Bible for myself, that viewpoint changed.
1. The disciples, prophets, or Christ never spoke of a time that people would be left behind.
2. Pretribulation rapture doctrine states that when the rapture occurs, the Holy Spirit will be removed but people will still come to Christ, which is IMPOSSIBLE according to scripture because we are told that the Holy spirit draws us to Christ John 6:44, 1 Corinthians 3:16,, 2 Corinthians 3:17. We are promised that the Holy Spirit would be with us forever John 14:16-26.
3. I also noted that everywhere in scripture where it spoke of tribulations, it wasn't for unbelievers. Tribulations is ONLY for believers. The wrath of God is for unbelievers. The great Tribulation is not the wrath of God. Only Christians suffer in the Tribulations, unbelievers enjoy themselves untouched by the wrath from the beast, false prophet, and anti-Christ, whose wrath is only directed towards those who worship God. If there were no Christians, there would be no tribulations because again, it is the wrath of evil against Christians.
4. In Luke 17:37, we are given the same parable of one taken and one left that we see in Matthew 24. However, in Luke, Christ is asked where the ones taken will be taken off to. He replies "where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth." (To clarify... HELL)
5. Every parable of Christ agrees that it will be the wicked removed, not the saints. Take for instance in Matthew 22 when Christ was giving a parable of a wedding feast. The wicked was removed. In Matthew 25:14-30, we see the parable of talents, again, the wicked servant is thrown out/removed. In Matthew 13:24-30, we see the parable of the wheat and tares. Notice the reapers never ask to pull up the wheat but they ask to pull up the tares and what does the master say? "Let them both grow together till the harvest." The harvest is at the end. Then which is removed? The tares are removed first.
6. This is a constant theme throughout scripture. Take Noah's ARK and LOT, again, it was the wicked who were removed, while the righteous were protected. 8. When we look at the ten virgins. When the door was shut on the five foolish ones, it was not shut for a time or until they went through tribulations but it was shut on them FOREVER. Also look at the five foolish virgins. They were not expecting the bridegroom to tarry. Which sounds a lot like the pretribulation doctrine. They believe in a rescue and are not preparing to endure. The five wise virgins prepared to endure.
Pretribulation doctrine likes to state that Noah and Lot were removed out of the way. True. That was God's protection But WHO WAS REMOVED FROM THE EARTH? We consistently see the wicked removed from the earth. Not the righteous. We see the righteous protected on the earth while the wicked are removed.
7. After looking at scripture I went back to hear a few preachers and demonstrations of the scriptures pertaining to pretribulation rapture because I still wanted to believe a rescue was true. That's when I noticed that THEY were choosing which scriptures were the first secret rapture and which scripture was the "everyone sees him" second rapture. (or as they say one rapture and one return. But again only one is found in scripture) Because one passage says he "comes in the clouds", another says "He comes on the clouds" and one says "His feet touch the ground"... That is adding to scripture to divide these into separate returns that are never spoken of. Scripture NEVER explicitly states that Christ returns twice.
8. If we look back at Jewish tradition because that is What Christ based a lot of his parables on because that was his main audience. IT was tradition for the people of a city, when they heard that someone of special status like a prince or a king was coming to town. The people of the city would run out to greet that special high ranking person and parade them back in with song and dance and shouting. This is what happened when Christ rode into Jerusalem on a donkey and THIS is what scripture means. Christ will return in/on the clouds, the dead will rise first, then those alive will be caught up and the redeemed saints will Parade Christ back down to earth.
9. Pretribulation doctrine likes to use the verse found in Jude 1 about Christ returning with 10,000 holy ones. Which specifically states it was quoting ENOCH. When you look at that verse in Enoch, it is referring to angels NOT redeemed saints!!! It will be ANGELS not REDEEMED SAINTS who are plucking up the evil ones and casting them into the fire.
10. Pretribulation doctrine teaches that the holy spirit is removed from man because He is the restrainer. YET ZERO verses that give us the characteristics of the Holy Spirit, has his character down as a restrainer. Any good behavioral profiler could look at the Holy Spirit's characteristics and say, "He is not a restrainer".
Instead of adding to scripture and coming up with all these man made doctrines, its best to believe what the scriptures say and pray for clarification when something such as "WHO THE RESTRAINER" is comes up. Answers will be revealed in their time.
Ez 1:27-28, Heb 1:3, Rev 4:3, think about this and then ask yourself if Chapter 10 of Revealation corresponds to 1 Thess 4:16-18
Doesn't the first resurrection happen at the beginning of the thousand year reign of Christ?
For 30 years I’ve been asking one question:
Where in the holy Bible does it say “just before the great tribulation”, that exact timeline specified, is when Jesus he’s going to remove his people from earth?
The answer: it’s not there.
Stick to what the holy Bible says.
In 1st John 4 vs 1-3 we find written these words :
"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the anti-christ, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world".
What is so important about Jesus coming in the flesh? It is important because we are flesh that deserves the wrath of God for our sins...but Jesus came , and took on our flesh that he might also take on our wrath. We were saved, from wrath...that is the meaning of SALVATION . That is the purpose and meaning of Jesus coming in the flesh. When you deny that Jesus is going to rapture the church and spare it from the wrath of God, you are denying the SALVATION that we received by Jesus taking on our flesh and taking on our wrath. This is a form of denying that Jesus came in the flesh. What spirit are we listening to in this video ???
In this world you will have TRIBULATION but you are NOT appointed to WRATH .Rapture cannot take place at the end Mr Brown.
Anthony pre trib and post trib debate is making me go crazy haha I still believe in pre trib but apparently majority of Christians I know now are against pre trib
@@labae8728 Interesting !
@@labae8728 Pretrib is wrong and it will give people a false sense of security.
Fire...I believe God will bring his Wrath on the Day of the Lord...it is Fire to destroy the wicked.
@@margiechism Yes, the wrath will start on the day of the Lord, but if you read Revelation you will see the Wrath is made up of many nasty forms of Judgement on the wicked.
The Book of revelation chapter 5:9 and they sang a new song saying You are worthy to take the scroll and to open the seals For You were slain And have redeemed us to God By Your Blood out of every tribe and tongue and People and Nation.
Out Here we find people of every tribe and tongue and nation before the throne room of God. Even before the Beginning of Tribulation we find people out of every tribe and tongues and nations. Even before the seals and the scrolls are open we find ourselves in Heaven. We are there before the throne and singing Jesus You are worthy to open the scrolls and seals. If we are not in heaven before the Tribulation begins in Chapter 6 then who are these People mentioned in Chapter 5?? In chapter 4:4 we find 24 elders 12 from the old Testament and 12 are the 12 disciples of Christ. So if there is the mention of 12 elders then we also will be there. Because inorder for the 12 elders to be in Heaven they have to be raised from the dead. As Jesus said the dead in Christ will rise first so the 12 elders will rise and caught up in the air with us. The Book of Revelation is progressive. Firstly we find the Church and the letters written to the Churches. Jesus also said to the Church of philadelphia that He would keep them out of the hour of trial that will come upon the whole earth. Jesus also said in the Gospel that we ought to watch and Pray that we would be counted worthy to escape all these things the Tribulations. In Revelation 4:1 John heard a Shout from heaven come up. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, what's is the Shout?? The Shout is come up. John heard that shout come up before the Tribulation. The Book of Thessalonians also tells us that we are not appointed for the day of wrath(7 years Tribulation) Jesus said I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not Prevail against it. The Church is hindering for the Antichrist to be revealed and so unless the Church is removed the antichrist will not be revealed. These are only some of the Biblical proof through which I believe in Pre-tribulation Rapture. Now here is another Proof. Jesus said no one knows the time of His coming not the angles, not even He Himself, but only the Father. So if Rapture happens after the Tribulation we will certainly be able to say or point out a out about His coming. And there is another thing that I would like to point out, and that is we have the second Coming of Christ and no third coming. When we talk about the second coming or the coming of Christ we talk about His coming on the earth. His first coming on the earth was 2000 years ago and His second coming will be after the Tribulation according to the Book of revelation. So lastly Just look up to revelation chapter 4:4 where we find the 12 elders which obviously they have to be Raptured and Revation chapter 5:9,10 where we find People out of every tribe and tongue and nation redeemed by the Blood of Jesus and all of these before the throne of God the 12 elders and People out of every tribe and tongue and Nations. All of these appear before even the seals and scrolls are opened. Does this not tell us that Rapture happens before the Tribulation?? It does. I thank God that He helped me see this from the Scripture. And This is the Bible Proof on why I believe in Pre Tribulation Rapture
Good exegesis
@@superjam18 do you believe in Pre Tribulation or Mid Tribulation or Post Tribulation
The rapture and second coming ARE separated by 7 years ... just not the 7 years I was taught and did teach myself until about 7 years ago with pre-trib rapture/immanent Return.
post (42 month) tribulation/Pre Wrath of The Lamb ... first the "vanishing" of the nephilim ... Luke 17 tells us where the ones taken went ...
THEN the rapture/gathering per 1 Thess 4:16-17, we witness the Lamb's Wrath, which is cut short least no one survive ..... we are evermore with Jesus ... the concurrent 7 years which follow; in Heaven the Bema Seat/Wedding Feast of The Lamb (Rev 19) .... and on Earth, the Ez 39:(9) cleanup of the Meggido Valley (by the 144k which was taken from the dragon 42 mos prior to the prepared place by two wings of a great eagle (Rev 12))
"...to the end" said the Master in Matthew 24. Is the end the beginning of the Dan 9:27 confirmed covenant? is it the resumption of the "regular sacrifice?" The initiation/completion of the 3rd Temple? The revelation of the man of lawlessness (2 Thess 2)? The cessation of the "regular sacrifice?" The desecration of God's Temple?
or the aforementioned "vanishing" as it was in the days of Noah that killed all but one nephilim .... Ham's wife ... the mother of Canaan.
Jesus' Return/Second Coming is when He puts His feet on the Mount of Olives and enters the Temple via the Suleiman-bricked closed gate in 1536 .... about 10.5 years after the Triune God was revealed in the Temple, just before antichrist declares he's God. Ez 43.
this isn't scriptural, but I think the priest on duty when Ez 43 happens is on duty when antichrist does his desecration ... and makes his demand to be worshipped. That priest has had his eyes opened seeing Jesus with the nail scarred hands ... to the antichrist he replies "nuh uh! He was just here a minute ago, you're a faker!" .... and the evac via Bozrah/Petra starts ... and the 42 month Great Tribulation.
Good video! subscribed.
the big distinction between the rapture and the second combining millennial reign can literally be seen in the observations
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven,
Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Mar 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen
The rapture has clouds, the second coming does not have clouds and that is how you tell the difference.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
This in Zac is the only description that mentions what will be seen as far as the weather and observations about the day itself
Zac 14:1-21, Jude 1:14-15, Rev 19:11-21,
The rapture has clouds the Start of the millennial reign does not. I believe God did that on purpose as a way that we could distinguish one from the other.
Do pretribbers believe in a rapture straight after the 7th trumpet ?
People have a tough time understanding the rapture in the Bible because it was a hidden mystery before God revealed it thru Paul.
This is not a salvation issue wheather you believe in pre mid post or no rapture but For those of you who believe in pre tribulation rapture did you study the bible for yourself to come to this conclusion or did you hear it preached when you got saved?
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 correlates with
Revelation 20:4-6. How can there be a pre tribulation Resurrection if Revelation 20:6 says the first Resurrection takes place after the tribulation?
Read the scriptures for yourself independently as if you never heard of certain doctrines or without any influence from popular pastors, biblical scholars or denominations. Ask yourself if you still believe certain doctrines just by reading what the scriptures say.
Daniel 11:36- 12:3 which Jesus pointed us to in Matthew 24:15 also has a resurrection occuring after the abomination of desolation and after the time of great trouble, corresponding with the exact same sequence as the gathering of the elect and the redemption found in Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27, and Luke 21:28. All these occur after the signs in the sun, moon, and stars and after the revelation of Jesus from heaven. Joel 2:31-32 has a deliverance occurring at this time too. This passage was quoted by Paul in Romans 10:12-13. It would be very misleading for Paul to point them to this deliverance if it was not the one intended for them.
Why I Believe in the Pre-tribulation Rapture!
There will be little eating, drinking, buying, planting, building and getting married at the end of the tribulation. Everybody is hiding in a cave (Rev 6:15-17) and freaking out (Luke 21:26).
One taken, one left is the pre-trib rapture without a resurrection (Luke 17:37). We don't disappear. There is a flash of light and we leave our flesh on earth.
1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming with a resurrection. There is only one resurrection (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6).
All respect to Dr. Brown. Maranatha!
2 Thess 2 says the "gathering" doesn't happen before the antichrist is revealed/apostasy. Can't be "pre trib."
Amen!! I truly believed this to since last year. Mathew 24:29-31.AFTER those days of tribulation the the son of man will appear and "GATHERING UP" his saints(Elects). Revelations 3:10. Revelations 2:10 and Revelations 6:9-12. "Since you have kept my commands, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which is gooing to come to those who dwell on earth to test the whole world"
Not to mention how Revelations says that during tribulation, the saints will be thrown in prison, they will become martyrs like the saints throughout history, how they will be overcome by the beast, etc. There is nothing in the Bible that says to Christians, "Oh, don't worry about the tribulation; you'll be raptured out before it happens and you'll be safe and sound." Instead, the Bible teaches for Christians to endure, endure, endure to the very end (that is, to the very end of tribulation). All of the warnings Jesus gives of the tribulation doesn't make sense unless Christians are to go through it theselves.
@@EndTimesHarvest Amen brother and in the vision that prophet Daniel saw about the anti christ and his reigning, The anti christ will be revealed in appointed time bc God will allow that for the kingdom sake and of course Martyres do matter to God if you read Revelation 6:9-11 and the vision that Paul saw
th-cam.com/video/nZS6TVqsumc/w-d-xo.html. Watch this prophet of God explain this deeper Revelation that God told him and other prophets in Africa who have got this Revelation. Amen Be bless and be strong! brother
Sorry I’m late but could you answer this, when the Bible says he’s coming back with all his saints what does that mean? All in Greek means “whole” and whole in Greek means “Total” so are we not his saints??? They didn’t say he was returning with “some” of his saints they said all of them
@@Cloudsofcora it says to be glorified in his saints. Meaning we will glorify him
@@Cloudsofcora meaning when he comes we’ll be there admiring it, doesn’t say he’ll be coming down w them
The Lord asked me this simple question.
If people go to heaven when they die (as everyone believes), and the church is raptured to heaven before I come (as some believe), when I step foot on this earth, what righteous person would be in the ground for me to resurrect?
Im still learning myself so please bare with me. this is a question i had and have understood that all who are dead in christ now are sleeping until the second coming then the dead in christ shall rise to live in heaven. Until that day they are sleeping. I may be wrong but this so far is my understanding
@@ali-eve4279 there will be a new heavens and a new earth. Earth is our home, not heaven. The dead in Christ will rise as Lazarus rose, to perfect life on a perfected earth free of evil and sin. We will get back what Adam and Eve lost.
@@connierosario9474 thats exactly how i understand it too. Only when peaople die they are sleeping and have not been judged yet!! So when jesus comes the dead will Still be sleeping and on that day they are risen with the church. To live on pur new earth. I dont belive in a secret rapture befote the second coming although i am a young Christian and still learning.
@@ali-eve4279 The Lord is slowly opening people's eyes to see that the pagan belief of a separate soul that goes to heaven, which was popularized by the idolic Catholic church is not what God has planned for us. God did not tell Adam, you are gonna die and return to me. He told Adam, dust you are and to dust you will return. When Jesus told Martha see would see Lazarus again, she said yes, I know we'll see him in the resurrection of the last days. But Jesus resurrected him then and there so we can see what will happen to us when he returns.
@@connierosario9474 like i said im learning but from my study... yes agreed👍✝️
Who is the great MULTITUDE of revelation 5:9- 12 before the seals are broken?
Then in 6:9 the other multitude of the tribulation saints who were the virgins with no oil get their robes just as their brethren who are under the throne.
Proof.
In investigating post Trib viewpoints, I keep running into a question that needs answering. How will a Church Age Believer be ALIVE at the 7th Trumpet? How did the Tribulation Saints get beheaded for Christ and not make it through alive with you?
Paul said "we who remain... " In other words, there will be some who remain until the coming of the Lord. Many will be beheaded, but will all? Remember those days will be cut short for the elect's sake, otherwise all would perish. So before AC can kill all saints, his time gets cut short. But yes, it will be a blood bath with much persecution, but he who endured til the end will be saved.
@@Mike65809 Thanks for answering my questions. I was thinking that "we who remain" are those alive at the time of the Rapture after the dead in Christ go up to meet Him in the air first, followed instantly by the alive Saints:
1 Thessalonians 4:16 KJV
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
People have said the Rapture occurs post Trib at the Last Trumpet, which is likely your interptetation. Here Paul says "with the trump of God" which corresponds with Apostle John being caught up to Heaven listening to a voice that sounds like a trumpet (a voice but not the actual instrument):
Revelation 4:1 KJV
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
"Enduring to the end" you believe are Church Saints coming through the Tribulation. I took it to mean the Tribulation Saints enduring to the end of their lives and being beheaded.
Lots to think about. Again, thanks for helping.
@@buckle-upbuttercup9345 Okay good. But can't agree with you on your interpretation of Rev. 4. John did to up to heaven, true. But since when can we interpret that to mean the resurrection/rapture of the church? No reason to equate the two. John is not the church. Enduring until the end is for us, we will become the Tribulation saints if we are here at that time. There is not reason to assume we will not be here, since there are no scriptures in context that teach a pre-trib rapture. It is derived and assumed and an idea brought to the text. Context is key to understanding any passage. Each passage reveals that there is no pre-trib rapture. Just let the text speak for itself. God bless.
Blood barrier brain transformation through pharmaceutical delievery system is currently Global; nanos.
@@Mike65809 no scriptures in context about pre-trib rapture? Jesus promised that He would go to His Father's house (heaven) and prepare a place for us, then come back to receive us so we may be where He is. John 14:3. This is confirmed in Rev. 19:14 where we are pictured as following Christ out of heaven at the Second Coming. Totally contradicts post-trib, since your version of rapture says you go up in the air then illogically do a U-turn to immediately go back to earth. Jesus also promised in Rev. 3:10 to keep us from the hour of trial. Take note, He did not use THROUGH, He used FROM. He will not merely let us go thru it while protecting us. It's important He added the word hour. It means we are not supposed to be here during the timeframe of the trib. Also, Jesus encouraged us in Luke 21:36 to pray to be accounted worthy to escape ALL these things that are coming to pass. So is Jesus lying to tell us one thing but know that we will actually go thru any part of it? Plus Jesus declared that the gates of hell will not prevail over His Church. Yet in Revelation the saints are overcome. Only plausible explanation is pre-trib rapture, and the saints referred to are trib saints, those who come to faith after the rapture. The anti-Christ will only be revealed AFTER the Holy Spirit-indwelt true believers are taken away. 2 Thes. 2:6-7. Don't you find it contradictory to be filled with the Holy Spirit and be here around the same timeframe as the beast? We are already sealed by the Holy Spirit, and only pre-trib rapture explains why the angels needed to seal God's servants before harming the earth. Jesus said He is coming as a thief, at an hour we do not expect, like in the business-usual-days of Noah. Doesn't sound like Second Coming precisely because they are different events! Jesus reiterated watchfulness. What's the point in watching if you knew you still had at least 7 years? Even little biblical clues point to pre-trib. We are called ambassadors for Christ. Ambassadors get called home before war breaks out. We are called priests. In Isaiah priests are instructed to hide for a little while until indignation is past. We are also called bride. Ancient Galilean wedding traditions indicate the groom goes to his father's house to prepare a place, then come back unexpectedly to snatch his bride away, take her to the prepared chamber and stay there for SEVEN days.
I’m just figuring this out. With much prayer and studying… allowing Yahweh to teach me rather than man. I see it so clearly… I can’t believe how long I was deceived.😢
You're _"just figuring this out with much prayer and studying"_ ? How ' bout, you've come to the conclusion after Dr Brown's video? There's no *"2 for 1 Combo",* where the rapture is combined with the 2nd coming of Christ here to earth.
“Let no one deceive you in any way…” Same day (just as in the days of Noah and Lot, God’s people saved from judgement the day it is poured out).
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Dr Brown doesn't understand the Galilean wedding which began at the Lord's supper when they drank the wine.
I would be happy to be incorrect, I certainly don’t think this is an issue that should divide us as believers in Jesus, but there is every indication from Scripture-believers, get yourselves ready...Time to get your big boy and big girl pants on.
A lot of people think tribulation and Gods wrath are the same thing.
In Matthew it literally says after the tribulation of those days. Then Christ comes in the clouds and we meet him. And then after that is the beginning of the wrath of God.
consider this, in a Jewish wedding Ceremony when the son finished preparing a place in the fathers house for the bride, the father sent the son to return to gather the bride. The son did not know when the father would say his work of preparing the place for the bride was complete, and this corresponds with Jesus saying that he didn’t know the Day of his return nor the angels in heaven but the father alone, this is how we know that this applies to John 14:3. The bride than returns with the son to the fathers house for seven days, john 14:3 pictured. after this they return to the brides house, (earth). If you apply this to us as the bride of Christ and the fact that 7 days in the Old Jewish wedding ceremony correspond with the seven years of the great tribulation that we are in the fathers house with the son celebrating our union you can see where a pre-tribulation rapture is taught in scripture by using the pictures given.
Could you do me a favor and point me to a JEWISH source for this? Thank you
1 Thessalonians 5:9-24
King James Version
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
When I first became a Christian I believed in a pre-trib rapture because it was so popular and no one really questioned it. But the more I studied the Bible the more apparent it became to me that it was simply not true. Ask a pre-tribber to explain Revelation 13:7.
Saints are being persecuted Now and much more through the tribulation.
I'd like to see him in a discussion with another teacher like Arnold Fruchtenbaum, also a messianic jew who teaches exactly the opposite... 🙄
No doubt, or Jimmy DeYoung who lives in Jerusalem most of the year.
The idea that the Tribulation is only for Israel in contradicted in Rev. 12. She is given wings of an eagle and is flown out into the wilderness where she is protected from the Beast for 3.5 years. So how can it be for Israel? Plus, if Israel "looks upon me that they pierced" and mourn for him, then how can they be saved if they have taken the mark??? They can't.
It seems that in this passage Paul is reassuring the Thessalonians that their suffering will be rewarded at the second coming of Christ. It is at His second coming that He judges those who persecuted the church throughout His Story, and He then sets up His new kingdom on earth for those who's faith will be rewarded for enduring suffering and continuing to persevere in their faith until the end of their lives and the end of the age of the church. Paul who wrote this letter, and those who he wrote it to, are long since dead. So they won't be on earth when Jesus returns. So where will they be? Jesus and His mighty angels will inflict "Vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus". Where are the believers who are alive at His coming? Are they on earth dodging His flaming fire? Or, have we already been taken up to be with those saints who have died before us, as 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17? Will this meeting in the air occur before the tribulation period? Is it possible that the coming Paul is referring to is the beginning of the vengeance of our God? That this coincides with the beginning of the tribulation period? Where does it say in this portion of scripture that Jesus will take believers out of the world? It says He will be "Revealed"? Revealed to those who are on earth? Those "Who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus". Where is the church in this passage? It is very possible that the church is not on the earth but has already been taken, those who were dead followed by those who were living, at a time prior to His return to inflict vengeance on all who remain on the earth. I don't reject the post tribulation rapture. God will do what God will do. I do think that there may be evidence for a pre-trib rapture in the scriptures. However, if Jesus chooses to drag His beloved church, His bride presented to Him without spot or blemish, who He died for, through the tribulation period, I trust that He has a purpose in that as well.
I'm not sure what text you alluded to, but in *II Thess 1,* Paul is telling the believers, that they can rest in KNOWING that the unjust will have their reward in due time, i.e. the *2nd* coming. Now, you ask where does scripture say we're taken OUT, or UP prior to the return of Christ?
*John 14:3* is one of _M A N Y_ texts that support the position. For instance, if there's ONLY a return of Christ @ the end of the tribulation w/o having *1st* received the church & taken them to heaven, then you have that verse TOTALLY sdrawkcab, for that verse makes quite clear, that @ the RAPTURE, we go to where HE is...HE'S not coming to where WE are. HE receives us...WE don't receive Him, & by the way, He's in HEAVEN, so this alone tells us that we're taken OUT of this world.
All the best to you in your search for truth, & *MARANATHA!*
Thank you, thank you, thank you for making this video! I've been trying to speak this truth for awhile and people seem to blow it off.
What truth your interpretation
Zac...but you seem to indicate that *II Thess 1* is the "silver bullet" or s/thing that drives the death knell to any alternate position by saying that. There's a host of scriptures that can be used to validate a *PRE* tribulation rapture, but two passages I just noted in the comment section would be *Matt 25* and *II Cor **5:10**...* neither the sheep and goat separation can be accounted for or the judgment seat of Christ with the two events melded into one.
15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. Rev. 13:15
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev.20:4
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.Rev 6:9-11
Why would God forsake us to the wrath of the antichrist only to be killed?
It is to test us.
Thank you for your video. If you believe that God is coming to judge the living and the dead. How can you not believe in a pre- trib rapture? Is there even one example in scripture where God did not provide a way of escape for his remnant before His judgement?
Absolutely Correct! Same event same day
That's what the Bible teaches so yup! Amen!
Exactly! There aren’t 2 events to happen. Same event same day
With all due respect....
Absolutely wrong. There are many types which establish God’s doctrine of a Pre Tribulation Rapture. Starting with Enoch, Noah, The Exodus, Rahab, Lot, etc.
God establishes His doctrine through types in the Bible with the most important one being the practice of offering blood sacrifices in the temple as a type of what Jesus would come to earth to do... give His life and shed His blood for us.
The confusion you have is with those who come to accept and believe in Jesus during the Tribulation (Tribulation Saints) after the Rapture.
This gentleman’s explanation is very lacking. Look up J.D. Farag and his sermon on the Pre Tribulation Rapture. He goes in depth on the symbolism of a Jewish wedding and solid doctrine taught by the apostle Paul. You could also look up Robert Breaker’s sermon on Pre Tribulation Rapture as well. Both of these sermons are excellent in rightly dividing God’s word so you can understand the end times revelation.
@Noé André - no, it’s not. The doctrine is plainly there for all to see who have eyes to see.
Makes perfect sense!
I HAVE NO IDEA HOW PEOPLE BELIEVE IN THE POST TRIB RAPTURE. IT DOES NOT EVEN MAKE SENSE WHY WOULD GOD PUT THE CHURCH THROUGH GREAT TRIBULATION
Revelation 9:4
“And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.”
There's got to be some with the seal of God that won't be harmed right? On fifth trumpet, locust are to torment only those without the seal of God. Please help me understand this scripture, thanks and God bless you all, in Jesus name amen
@@stevesengpraseuth7707
If corona is killing Christians, do you think during the tribulation people wont be killed ? infact they will be slaughtered, once people take the mark the locusts will harm people with the chip on them or what ever the mark is , this happens during the 5th trumpet we still dont know what the locust truly is. But one thing is sure Jesus said the tribulation is coming on all who dwell on earth. It will be an awful horror which never took place or ever will, which is why the Bible clearly says the " The one who restrain the antichrist should be taken away"
This is why the church will be raptured
@@ltj1061 thanks for the reply, I'm not sure if you watch this link, but please tell me your thoughts, there's scriptures in the video that I'm studying and trying to understand. th-cam.com/video/fE81HrKxHoo/w-d-xo.html
@@ltj1061 thanks for reply my friend, like many Christian's before us, many were prosecuted and died for Jesus, Simon/Peter, Apostle Paul, the Two witnesses etc. Then ressurected. Something tells me that we too, followers of Christ may have to lay down our lives and then be ressurected on the second coming of Christ, Revelation 3:10
“Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” KJV
I think only those who are like the the Philadelphia church will be rapture and the rest will be tested, what do you think? Just trying to understand, I'm learning.
@@ltj1061 Revelation 13:7
“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”
King James Version (KJV)
It says the antichrist will make war with the saints, not the two witnesses, what do you think?
192 thousand subs and rejects pre tribulation Bible truth? Sounds about right.
i agree..no pre trib..i wish it is...coz we can escape the great trib....but its not...we have to suffer...just like Jesus when he lived here 2000 yrs ago... then once we are all... drained..peesecuted..he will appear in the clouds...then the rapture happens..
Your truth statement, "WE HAVE TO SUFFER" cannot be validated with scripture...sorry.
Second Thessalonians out right tells us that the rapture happens at the 3 1/2 year mark. Jesus comes when the antichrist sits on the throne. All scholars agree that’s the 3 1/2 year mark. I really don’t see why this is difficult for most people.
Revelation 12:9 and 13:5 clearly state the rapture before Satan is cast down from Heaven, and second coming are separated by 1260 days / 42 months.
I fail to see where it says anything about saints coming with Jesus during that time in these verses. Your trials and tribulations are vindicated when Jesus wages war against the nations at the time of the end - that is all.
The Pre-Tribulation view is correct because of the following:
1. Jesus comes for his church and everyone who believes in Christ and carries out Gods word is taken, including innocent children. Lukewarm Christians not taken.
2. Due to millions of people vanishing, the world goes into global chaos. This allows the opportunity for the Antichrist to reveal himself and rise into power. As soon as the false peace treaty is signed in Israel commences the 7 year tribulation period.
3. Now let’s apply maths to this. If there is no pre-tribulation rapture, we know that either the rapture will take place 3.5 years into the tribulation or 7 years from the agreement. This undermines what the scripture says because everyone will know a time he will come.
Therefore, it makes sense that the pre-tribulation view is correct because it can happen at any time!
4. During the tribulation period Jews convert to Christianity and the 144,000 spread the word of God converting non believers into believers. The ones who die a believer during this period and who do not take the mark become tribulation saints.
5. At Jesus seconding coming, which is at the very end of the 7 year tribulation, he brings back the church (the ones raptured) the tribulation saints who died believing in him to defeat the Antichrist and the false prophet. Additionally, satan is locked away for 1,000 years so that no one can be influenced by his lies.
6. Jesus paid for our sins when he died on the cross. Logically doesn’t make sense for his people to suffer Gods wrath when he paid the ultimate penalty for all who believe in him.
7. It’s all in the bible.
8. The rapture is imminent and unpredictable as there are no preceding events required. The seconding coming is predictable based on the start of the tribulation.
2nd comment. In Revelation he says to one of the churches that if they don't repent he will throw them in the tribulation, so if we all go through, why would he say if they don't repent. He also says that we should pray that we are worthy to escape all these things, talking about the tribulation.
Give actual scripture, and if you're talking about the church in Smyrna, the Lord had nothing against them but he told them they will be put in prison and that they WILL have tribulation. Most chillingly he commanded them to be faithful even to the death. I'll wait.
People will be greatly deceived when there's no rapture before tribulation. Most may even accept the mark
The more I look into the question of pre /mid/post /or no trib at all, the more confused I become. Now I'm beginning to think that born again believers in CHRIST, who have repented, received Christ as their Lord and Savior, get baptized publicly in full Emerson, serve the LORD faithfully, but hold to a pre or mid trib position will lose their salvation and be doomed to the lake of fire for all eternity... Is there any hope in the redemptive work of JESUS at the cross? Will they all be doomed? Lord have mercy upon your people, for we are without hope. Have mercy LORD, Please have mercy.
@@brianweekes7323 God is not the author of confusion, the devil is. God is clear with what he says. If you read the scripture if it was pretrib wouldn’t God clearly outline it, “you won’t endure tribulation”. But no Jesus never said that, he said endure till the end. His message was about endurance
@@raedradha6403 thank you
@@brianweekes7323 you see the negative effect of post-trib? Among other things it gets you looking for the anti-Christ. Pre-trib gets you looking for the imminent return of Christ.
@@raedradha6403 yes God actually outlined that we will NOT endure tribulation. It was Jesus Himself who told us in Luke 21:36 to pray to be accounted worthy to escape ALL these things that are coming to pass. Not just some, not just the first part or half, ALL of it.
Great video!
I am not a pretribulationist but they can't be one event.
Yep. They just conveniently dodge/deny/circumvent the distinctions. The fact that they have differences simply means that they are in fact separate events.
@@anthonyplofino1485Give an example of differences. Not distinctions. Differences.
When the 2 witnesses are called up that's the 1st resurrection or rapture of the dead in Christ 1st then we who are alive and remain
When Jesus comes the SECOND time He will appear to those who look for Him and love Him. Hebr 9:28.
This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.( Second time.Acts 1:11.)
Immediately after the tribulation Jesus shall appear from Heaven. (SECOND TIME) Matt. 24:29-30.
When Jesus comes the second time He will descent from Heaven and we will meet Him in the air.( 1Thes 4:16).
When Jesus comes the second time we will be gathering together unto Him.(2 Thes 2:1).
When Jesus comes the second time He will come in flaming fire and vengeance to those unbelievers who had fallen away from the truth and then Jesus will be glorified in his saints in that day.(2Thes 1:8,10).
Before Jesus comes the second time a falling away from the truth must take place for the antichrist to be revealed.(2Thes 2:3)
When Jesus comes the second time He will destroy the antichrist with the brightness of His coming and those who had fallen away from the truth..(2Thes 2:8,10).
Nobody is going to disappear (raptured) before Jesus comes the second time.
I found post trib in Revelation 20 4&6. Only the beheaded and survivors of the tribulation take part in the First Resurrection, only the tribulation saints reign with Jesus for the thousand years .Daniel 12 2 and Revelation 20 12-15 Christians and unbelievers wake together after the thousand year reign of Jesus. Take heed that no man deceives you. Jesus would love to show you the difference between a Christian and a saint. Just pray, and read Revelation 3 - Revelation 20 18 chapters describing saints
So are you saying that the saints that come back with Jesus are quickly caught up to meet Jesus and apparently the whit horses, change clothes and come back for battle all in the span of less than a few minutes? ( please excuse the way that is phrased and written because I don’t went it to sound like a mockery ).. and can the belief about the timing of the rapture jeopardize one’s salvation?
Rapture timing belief does not effect salvation which is good news for pre tribbers.
@Smidlee Well who are the saints and those that keep the commandments of God that the antichrist makes war on in the tribulation ? Or the multitude that no one could number that comes out of the great tribulation ? Why does Paul say we get our rest when the lord is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels taking vengeance on those who know not God ? Why in 1st Corinthians 15 does he say once the dead are raised and we are caught up with the lord that the saying shall come to pass which says Death is swallowed up in victory which comes from Isaiah 25:8 read Isaiah 24and 25 to verse 8 it is speaking of the second coming . Why does Paul tell us in Thessalonians that the day of the lord will not over take us as a theif ? Study the day of the lord once again the second coming . There is not a single verse on the " Pre trib rapture " you can use thessalonians all you want but the verse pre tribulational doctrine claims is the rapture is surrounded by text about the second coming . The pre tribulation rapture is man's doctrine I was taught and believed that way the majority of my life till I did multiple in depth studies in which I found countless scripture proving a post tribulation rapture
@Smidlee So you answer one question out of all I just said ? Also what verse says the 144000 will witness ?
Also will those 144,000 be traveling the world witnessing at that time ? because the multitude from the great tribulation is of every tribe tongue and nation . I believe they are called the sealed of Israel not the 144,000 witnesses.....further more Revelation tells us that all those who dwell on the earth will worship the beast except those who's names are written in the lambs book of life since the beginning of time, why are those who's names written in the lambs book of life still here are the rapture ? God just said ok I'm taking all you special people up while the rest of you are beheaded for you testimony? Hmm
@Smidlee I answered we're those that keep the commandments of God and the saints the beast is waging war on lol that's us .