🔴 Investing in NEW OLD Lenses | Light Lens Lab Elcan 50mm vs Cooke Speed Panchro SPII 50mm
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Testing LLL Light Lens Lab Cooke Speed Panchro SPII 50mm f2 + Elcan vs Leica / Voigtlander
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The speed pancro is a special lens and perfect for cinematic portraits. Shout it with Kodak's vision 3 T-films or something like Cinestill 800T and you'll get very nice results.
Alternatively with digital and a pro mist filter 👌
Thanks Mike! Yes agree. I have cans of V3 film in the fridge but I test to shoot B&W
I have over 100 vintage lenses. Recently bought a Voightlander Nokton 35mm f1.4 and 7Artisans 50mm f1.05 and gotta say I love these new "vintage" lenses. No adapters, modern coatings and wow a beautiful look.
Great, yes some of the newer M lenses are excellent. I really like the 7A 50 1.1 I reviewed recently and I used to own the 35mm f1.4
If you’re able to pick up Lomography’s Jupiter 3+, I love the results on mine. Vintage lenses are the best
Thanks! I have a J3, agree, great lens and nice bokeh!
Nice overview - I have been waiting for the Cooke replica to arrive, so looking forward to using it. I have had the Elcan for a year or so and it is a fantastic lens, as is their 8 element 35mm sum micron replica. you may not know this but the Elcan is being discontinued by Light Lens Lab - once they are out of existing stock, there will be no more production of it. they put out a notice to their email subscribers about a week or so ago.
Thanks Robert and yes. I'll mention that in the full video, thanks.
So much information to process... props for putting all these lenses side by side and keeping track, I would've gone mad!
Hey Thomas, thanks, you could see I was losing the plot mid way myself but I strangely like this stuff. My auditor roots!
I really like what I see from the Elcan, I think that is my favorite one. It is really nice that it is available in LTM as well, that makes this lens extremely versatile since you can use it to shoot film on an LTM camera, it comes included with the adapter to shoot film/digital on a M camera, and then you can farther adapt to any mirrorless camera 😻🤤🤤❤
Absolutely!! Mr Dumbass here was so excited I bought it without seeing the LTM option (as no one had ever mentioned it).. so now I might be getting that too for all my loved Leica iii cameras.
I just managed to bag one of the last LLL 50mm f/2 Elcans in black. This is now a discontinued item and no longer available in M mount from Light Lens Lab. Thank you so much for the video.
Great! I pushed the video out early for this reason so i'm glad you managed to get one (and in black!). Full video to follow.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Delivered this morning. Nine days from China that included the Easter holiday. This is a stunning lens! The weighty feel in the hand from the brass is exquisite. I now have to save up to buy the LLL 35mm f/2 8 element 🙂
8 months later, it’s still available. “Discontinued” is just a game Chinese like to play. Before you blame me as a racist I’m a born Chinese.
So I got my copy. This lens is just strange. In a good way. It really just makes the lighter white yellows just glow. But keeps the darker colors contrasted but not sticking out
Congrats Andy! I still love mine (both!)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom two of the first photos i took were of my cat (white) and a group of friends and family at a graduation (400tmax) and after developing and scanning, he was glowing. The photo of the group: the menus were near glowing.
This is just a strange lens. I do like it a lot.
Been waiting for this video. I’m blown away by the Elcan which I got myself just last week. Even wide open the sharp rendering extends into the outer third or so of the frame when you focus and recompose.
It’s great to see how the SP2 compares in size to the Elcan. I’m keeping an eye open for when it’s available in black.
Looking forward to seeing some of your work using these lenses
Thanks Paul! I was raving about them on Patreon so I thought it would be easier to make a pre-vidoe video to show how they compare. Yes i'm dying to get some sun and models so I can really show what they do. So impressed with the Elcan!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom can’t wait to get away with it myself. It’ll probably be a mainstay on my M Monochrom. My only dislike is the push on lens cap doesn’t feel very secure and won’t stay on with a filter (an orange Helliopan filter is usually on any lens I fit to the Monochrom)
@@paulanderson24 I swap to pitch cap plastic eBay alternatives straight away.
@@paulanderson24 ..and agree I think I’m going to be using this lens a lot! (Film too)
Thank you, a great useful comparison!
I think the SPii vs Summarit was particularly interesting to me, I’d also suggest you re-review your video (around 6:30) because what I saw was not well aligned with what you commented on. You specifically mentioned a lot of glow on the Summarit lens, but what I noticed is that it depended upon where you looked. The ‘Lens Lab’ wording I agree had more glow on the Summarit, but the “China” & “564/998” text looked like it had more glow on the SPii to my eyes. I would agree that the SPii looked sharper on the “1:2” text where you said you used critical focus on. I think the biggest difference between the two was the bokeh balls, with the Summarit looking bigger/smoother/creamier, it looked like it might have been shot at f1.5 and not f2 to me, the difference was that great. I actually like soap bubble bokeh though so did not find the SPii bokeh offensive (I own a MOG trioplan). The SPii looked like it had more 3D pop to my eyes though, which I liked.
Thanks Lawrence, yes I was really impressed vs. the Summarit as I know I can take nice portraits with that lens so the SPII will be even better. Agree depending on the angle the lenses give more/less glow in areas. Thanks for feedback and yes if bokeh balls were larger it was probably knocked to closer to 1.5. (Most video clips were shot with the Summarit at f1.5 for the close ups*)
Sold me on it. I saw Ted Forbe's video on it and for him to recommend a product goes a long way. Yours sealed deal. My other 50 is a 50mm f1.4 ttartisan (which is a great lens), but it's a beast. I also found that lenses that bring the center of gravity back closer to the body of the lens, makes it steadier at 1/50 or even 1/30th. if I'm having to go low handheld. So this hits the spot.
Yes great lens. I still use my copies
Oh this is fantastic, Thank you!
Thanks!
What is your opinion of a collapsible summicron 50mm f2 in good condition, without scratches?
If you can find one then great, it should give you nice results
Thanks for the comparisons, I appreciate the honesty and clarity of the explanations.
Thanks Michael! Full videos still to come. I’m loving them so far.
awesome review! Thank you Matt!
Thanks Fredick! Another one to come :)
Very nice Matt. Thank you
Thanks!
Okay Matt let's get geeky as you always says.
First of all, for this type of vintage lenses this video comparison is good enough but for a real test it is insufficient.
The focus is all on the center of the frame and not on the corners and half way but for what we can see in your test it wouldn't really matter to go "geekier".
BUT FOR A TEST OF VINTAGE LENSES IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHICH CAMERA YOU USED TO TAKE THE TEST IMAGES AND IN PARTICULAR THE SENSOR (THE MP)
People forget that a low MP sensors take better (sharper and better contrast) pictures with those vintage lenses than high MP sensors.
That's why for those newer 40 MP + cameras, newer versions of the latest lenses are made and they are much more expensive.
But it is always nice to see those vintage lenses and if with the worst ones a good photographer can make beautiful dreamy shots.
Thanks for sharing
BTW In the contact area of the Mr. Leica site I will send you a message with some revealing information on those two new 35 and 50 mm "cheaper" Leica lenses that I have not read until yet.
If I had that information when I commented on the Leica Store video I would have rattle the cage even more.
Thanks Rob! Sorry to just get to this. Agree it was only a quick and dirty test snd sorry I thought I mentioned all photos with 24MP SL. Good point on 40MP+
You can also get the Light Lens Lab 50mm Elcan in LTM mount for your Leica III cameras :)
I know.. Mr Dumbass here totally missed that so now I have to buy twice and stay homeless for a few more years! (Renting, not on the street!) ..once i've tested the Elcan with models I will know 100% and full vidoes to come.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I'm curious to see if you will like the Elcan for portraits...it would seem on paper to be a nice mix of sharp enough but old world.
@@shanecaut1063 yes seeing it next to my DR I’m excited to use it.
Thanks Matt
Thanks, no problem!
Matt have you thought of using a diffusion filter on modern lens designs vs New manufacture older design lenses? I’ve found Glimmerglass is really nice.
Hi, I wish I was in the US as GG are expensive in the UK. I shoot most old lenses close to wide open so I need the detail without a filter but I could add them added softness.
Interesting comparison! Lovely lenses it seems!
Thanks Hidde! I need the Spain sun (and models!) to test them .. UK rain isn't helpful haha
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I hear you 😎☀️
Lovely lenses,good review , on the same range get a look over Ms-optics. Myazaki San is a real craftsman
Thanks Irimie! Some of my Patreons have the MS lenses so maybe I can try for a future video.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom always eager to watch your reviews
Interesting comparison. It looks like the LLL Elcan replica aperture ring turns in the opposite direction compared to modern Leica M lenses.
As the original was a military commission, supposedly the direction was reversed to match military Nikon lenses.
Thanks John yes, Ric replied with the spot on answer. It was the lens designed for the US military and it needed to make the direction of the Nikon gear they were using. See the Ted Forbes video for a full history. Linked below.
Thanks Ric, yes spot on!
Matt, I just bought a Leica Valoo aperture adjusting lens hood for my IIIf f3.5 50mm Elmar. It simultaneously converts from the old f stop numbers to the more normal f. numbers. It appears to be a rare item. Thanks for all your informative videos.
Hi Graham, ah very cool. I've not seen one of those so it sounds like it was a great find.
I know you say you like the elcan for film, as someone who likes 50mm for street photos in the day at f8-11 and regularly shoots at night on 800T/500T is the cinematic look worth going after on the Cooke Replica for wide open on film? Or would you still stick with the elcan? Thanks!
Cooke SPII you'd need to stop down 1-2 stops more verses Elcan on film for sharper results. I shot a roll on my M3 so I can soon put a video together to share the results
I don't know. I do not dispute the quality. But I really dislike the branding and styling of the lens.
For my small walk around lens, I will stick with my converted Contax G Zeiss 45mm f2. That is as sharp as lenses get I guess.
Yes I didn't like "CHINA" on the front and I told them, but if it said "UK" that would be just the same. Converted G lens.. nice, yes you're fine with what you have :)
I've got a Funleader helicoid mounted Contax Zeiss 45mm and it is astonishingly sharp.
Matt, you're a big tease... getting us all interested in the 50mm f/2 ELCAN when you know perfectly well that Light Lens Labs announced (in their blog on March 20) that they've decided to stop manufacturing it, and the supply is limited to retailers' stock on hand. So far the retailers don't seem to be taking advantage by jacking up the prices on remaining inventory... but after people see your video, I suspect there may be a sudden run on the last examples!
BTW, did you say [at 04:20] that the ELCAN is a "Summicron clone"? I remember reading about the original Leitz ELCAN in Jason Schneider's "Modern Photography" magazine column back in the 1970s, when the lens first appeared on a special Leica M4 model made to order at Leitz' Canadian plant for the US military and called the KE-7a (E. Leitz Canada ended up with a few extras beyond the Army's order and was allowed to put them on sale to the public.) Schneider said the interesting thing about the 50/2 ELCAN was that it had only four elements, far fewer than normally found in 50mm f/2 lenses (which usually have at least six elements, as the 1970s-vintage Summicron does) and speculated that this was because the military wanted a more compact lens and wasn't too worried about full-aperture corner sharpness. The info from Light Lens Lab says they replicated this four-element design, which it makes your results seem even more impressive!... and even more too bad that LLL has decided to pull the plug on production!
Bonus fun fact: ELCAN is still around; it belongs to defense contractor Raytheon now, and apparently will be happy to whip up a custom optic for your latest satellite or combat drone or weapons-targeting system, presumably as long as you have a national-defense-size budget...
Ha thanks James, I thought I should tell people now rather than in several weeks when I do a likely rave review in case people wanted to grab a copy. Clone? - "Optically, it's basically a vintage Summicron. At f/2, faint highlight glow, some vignetting. Interesting bokeh wide open, sometimes. Cleans up stopping down. Sharp to very sharp. Medium-high contrast to my eye, as someone who prefers low contrast. Compared to a v4 Summicron, it's the same rendering except for the higher contrast and interesting bokeh wide open". (Yes a shame they will stop production for sure, that's why I got one asap!)
I see the Light Lens Lab 35mm f2 in the background...if you are going to review, could you possibly compare with the 40mm f2.8 heliar ltm. These are probably the only wide screw mount lenses being made new at the moment.
Hi Shane, i'm glad you spotted that little teaser! Absolutely.. we think alike. I'm on it. Stay tuned.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I look forward to it :)
Great stuff Matt.. Would love to know if you have ever taken a look at the vintage Cannon 50mm 1.5
Thanks Roger! Not yet but I know of it. A Sonnar design so different to my 1.4 and 1.8 Canon lenses
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Yep I have the 1.8 which is as crisp as my 40mm Summicron. So very interested in the 1.5 seems quite overlooked. But the images I have seen are really beautiful.
Hi Matt, Thank you for another wonderful video. Great to have the technical comparison of the Elcan and the Skopar f/2.5. It's my current walk around lens as well.
I have been trying to determine the weight of the Elcan. A lot of websites say "200-235g (Depending on finishes)"
I definitely want whichever colour way is 200g.
Did you put your chrome version on a scale ?
Did you find anywhere specifying which colour way is 200g ?
Thanks Lasse! The Skopar is slightly lighter I think.. but if you want lightweight and small the clear winner is the Heliar 40mm f2.8 LTM - crazy light
Thank you! Yes that’s what I thought. I emailed Light Lens Lab, this is what I got back: “All lenses are around 235g, as the planned aluminum ELCAN was never made. ”
Elcan 50 f2 vs voigtlander 50mm f1.5ii (brass body version) thoughts on which you would go for? for use on digital (adapted to gfx100s)
Elcan for me, that's what I bought. The 1.5 is beautiful but was a bit too soft up close. Full Elcan video still to come
SUPER :)))
Thanks!
😊
Have the light lens lab 35…. It’s a great lens…. It’s just a shame they cost so much more in Europe than in Asia.,, paid about £600 equivalent for mine..
Hi Simon, £600 sounds pretty good compared to the list prices.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom chinese prices much cheaper and lot of companies also convert cine lenses
@@simonkimber1152 shipping is expensive (they told me yesterday.. for UPS)
Bummer. I chose to buy a Ruger bolt action rifle over the Light Lens Lab Elcan 50/2 repro. I could only afford one or the other this month. Not both. The rifle won out. Might have missed my shot (no pun intended) at the Elcan 50/2 repro since it seems they have been discontinued.
Edited: But then again, I probably have more vintage genuine Leica lenses (and a few new) than most out here should... no... there is never enough.😎
Ha thanks Don. They still have some stock of ELCAN in case you "need" one next month.. but yes stopped production and some versions already OOS.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thanks Matt. In spite of my other hobby (long range Target Rifle Shooting) I do desperately want to get the Light Lens Lab Elcan remake. I think it has a signature I might like, and I like Leica mount lenses with a signature.
Great vid Matt, now even more looking forward to the delivery of my Elcan tomorrow to join my LLL35mm ‘cron copy. It will live on my M3 for sure. Ken
Thanks Ken! I'd done the tested for myself so I thought it might interest others. Yes really impressed with the LLL gear so far!
7artisans 50 1.1 has similar glow at 1.1 that disappears at 1.4 and great sharpness at f2. i don't get why id pay double the price for them. same story with 35mm, just get voigtlander
Thanks, it's not just the glow, it's the bokeh and everything else. I totally agree though you can get the vintage vibe with many much cheaper lenses.
Just received my panchro speed ii. If you hold the very top of the lense above the aperture ring and turn it does yours move ever so tiny. More like a wobble. It won't screw off and would not try too but you feel an ever so slight wobble in it. It's bugging me but not sure if it’s meant to be build like that.
I don't have mine with me currently but it feels solid from memory. The ELCAN has some wobble. There is probably some sample variation.
Ok thanks for letting me know. Elcan is coming next week. So will see how that one is. Panchro is a great lens. I also put it on my Sony fx3 and it’s producing great video. Great lens
hello Matt at 2:56 both lens are LLL 35mm - on Left image it is not Voiglander APO 50mm ?
Hi Daniel, subject is LLL 35mm for all photos but the commentary is for the lens used to take those photos.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom yes my mistake .
Hello Matt， has your copy of your cooke come with a front cap? mine hasn't.
Hey Fu, no they are supplied without caps (I chatted with the guys) BUT a cheap 39mm plastic eBay cap fits great so I use that :)
yay light lens lab stuff! Maybe take a look at the kipon iberet leica m lenses next?
Thanks Kevin! Remind me in a few months :)
I had the 35mm Iberit. While it was great optically - and unnecessarily large given the max aperture, I returned it because it was shipped new w oily aperture blades! I did some research and for some weird reason it was common on the 35 Iberit. Oily blades will eventually haze the inside of the lens.
@@husshardan3511 could you have the lens CLA’ed to correct that?
@@husshardan3511 thanks for info and yes to oil on blades.
@@kevinmarkham6385 yes you can get it fixed/cleaned up but as this was a brand new lens I wasn’t going to pay for that and so just returned it.
Help me, Matt.
I'm looking for a compact 50mm for my M5. Zeroed in on the Voigtlander 50 color skopar f2.5 LTM and the LLL 50mm Elcan LTM.
Color Skopar: half the price of the Elcan; about the same size as the Elcan; 2.5 vs 2.0; about the same weight (?)
ELCAN: based on 70s design (purely sentimental since I'm a 70s baby); might go well with the 70s M5.
Yes both small.. still testing the Elcan, it can render very nicely in the right conditions..
I came in wanting to hate these lenses but I’m impressed. I just wished it didn’t say CHINA in the front. 😅
Thanks Carlos. I thinks that's why i've given LLL no time in the past too.. "another Chinese lens co" but when I saw what they were doing I was sold. Yes I fed back to them about the CHINA logo too but that's like asking a Brit to remove "Made in Britain" so I get it. A UV filter or hood will hide it. ;)
if it is a decent prodcut, then why a chinese company needs to be shameful for putting their country on their product? I guess there was also a peroid when people all hated made in japan as well
@@frankhu8692 everyone does it. Just not right in the front in giant letters. Except for at one point Leica put Canada in the front.
…why would that bother you?
Hi Matt. How would the Elcan compare to the CZ Sonnar and Planar? I’m considering selling both (sonnar, planar) for the single LLL Elcan to simplify my kit. (Also want the LTM ability of the Elcan.)
As you know, Sonnar vs Planar vs Summicron are 3 different looks and optical designs. The Elcan should be the smallest in use and gives nice results. I have it for my M3 but yes LTM is a big bonus too.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom thank you. LLL 35 8E and 50 Elcan purchased. I prefer smaller designs for how I carry
@@bjmarchives great, me too!
Hey Matt, how is the focus breathing on the SPII?
Hey Stanley, I'll do a full review later this month.. I've not had chance to test it properly yet.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I'm mostly looking to get it for video and if the focus breathing is very little, that's a big bonus. Looking forward to your full review. Thanks Matt!
The essential/unfair question - you can only afford one, Elcan replica or Cooke replica?
That's why I made this video. Pick the one that ticks YOUR boxes. (Full videos to come on both but I will use for different purposes).
Just have the best, don't collect loads of tat, it gets in the way and gets you down.
Less is more.
Thanks Bernard, test plenty, keep what works the best and sell the rest. (Still in that phase!)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I hated photography for ages, too much stuff. Got rid, love it again. Recommended.
It's a shame that Light Lens Lab discontinued the ELCAN.
Yes, agreed
Looks like it's back!
@@mgscheue wait… what?!
@@mgscheue yes! I bought a second one in LTM :)
I don't get why everyone here has such prejudice against the CHINA in the front. They have every right one proud of their origins, and it's not like they are making cheap products, they came out with amazing reproductions of prohibitively-priced vintage lenses. It's obvious they want to overturn the unfair stereotypes on Chinese products and we should never fault them for it. It's honestly slightly racist to ask them to remove their prideful badge of honour.
Thanks Erwin, yes I said that to them in an email (a UK company like to have made in UK sticker so it’s the same concept).
I'll have to hide my wallet in the future if I want to watch your reviews. ;o) The LLL Panchro appears to have a UV filter in front. Is there a filter which comes with this lens?
Haha sorry Zoltan.. I need to find a way to protect my own wallet too! (I'll be living in a tent for ever at this rate haha) .. Yes they do some lenses with built in filter but can remove it. You'll see on another lens to come.
WTF is a Cook Pankros? A Greek knock off of the Chinese knock off?
Haha, it takes nice photos though!