Film Development. Distilled Water or Tap Water? Let's experiment!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ม.ค. 2021
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ABOUT THIS VIDEO
I wanted to see if was worth my time using distilled water for my development. It's a no brainer if you shoot film at a high end level but for me as a fundamental shooter I thought I'd experiment and see the difference between Distilled, Tap Water and the water that we have in the tank for showers!
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EQUIPMENT USED
CAMERA - Mamiya RZ67
FILM - Lomo Earl Gray
DEVELOPER - Rodinal 1/50 8 mins
STOP & FIX - Fotospeed
ENLARGER - DURST M605
PAPER -
DEVELOPER -
STOP & FIX - FOTOSPEED
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CANON 6D, GOPRO 7 BLACK, TASCAM DR10L MIC, SENHEISSER SHOTGUN MIC,
NEEWER LED PANELS, GVM COLOUR PANELS,
Editing - FCP, PHOTOSHOP, LIGHTROOM
ABOUT MY VIDEOS
If my videos inspire, create ideas and help others in film photography and darkroom work then it's worth making them.
I always welcome comments that are useful towards the video subject that will help others understand the process within.
Keep shooting and thanks for watching.
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Definitely seemed to be a bit more sharpness in the distilled. Really interesting watch. Hands down one of the best film photography channels around at the moment.
I forgot to mention the light outside was mid overcast all day. It is possible that the light changed on the first neg. But I don't think so.
the purity of the water affects not so much the quality of the first development, but how quickly your solution dies or on which film in the account, minus the number of films on distilled water.
Otherwise, everything will be perfect at the first development! Who would doubt that. )))) you will compare at 9-10 development.
I've been using bottled drinking water for development these last few years because I found my tap water could on occasion leave deposit of something on my negatives. Also having bottles at room temperature really makes development consistent.
Buxton? Evien?
I tried de-ironised, as I could not get distilled water around here, anyway I found no real benefit over bottled drinking water, Buxton is good. Once I decided to mix up Ilfotol in de-ironised water and just use it for final rinse, to see what would happen, it did not go well, either leaving a sticky layer on film if mixed to strong or having drying marks on negs if mixed at recommend 1 to 200. So the bottle then ended up sitting unused for a while, I don't know why but the next time I opened the bottle I just happened to glance inside it, glad I did, brown mould was growing in the water, it was horrible, if I had just poured it into the Dev tank i wouldn't have known anything about the brown slime until to late. Now I just use Buxton or whatever and never mix up a large batch of Ilfotol.
The highlights seem more pronounced in the distilled as well as there seems to be a bit more sharpness.
I agree. If you look at the comparison at 4:07, the distilled is clearly sharper than the other two. Makes me want to dump my gallon of D76 I just made
If getting distilled water is a pain, it is for me due to space at home, an R-O system or good filter system will give you the same results. I use a Brita filter for all chemistry water and I find that it performs functionally the same as distilled water. We also have hard water that, sometimes, smells a good bit off.
Wooah, David's here. You two should do a collab one day. You might be some of the most knowledgeable people on you tube about film photography.
Thanks. I do the same with the filters but I did not know if it makes any difference it just seemed like a good thing to do.I will keep using filters :)
I did think of filtered water but thought maybe it would still hold crap. Interesting. Thanks David.
The only time I used distilled water, was when I was processing E6. Primarily for wedding imagery.
I’ve always used tap water for B&W.
Honestly, you’re producing stellar images! The proof is in the pudding! Whatever you’re doing, keep it as your basic routine. It doesn’t make a ton of sense to me to add the extra cost of distilled water to a process that you’ve got a solid workflow for already? Just my opinion.
You’re doing great!
Thanks for the kind words Jon!
Roger do what you like to do. You can take anything to extremes and some people do.
That is really a comprehensive test you did! Thanks for sharing :)
Excellent follow up. Kudos to you for undertaking a comprehensive assessment.
Distilled water image is definitely sharper. Great experiment!
I've been processing film and paper for 65 years now - yeah, old wrinkly. I've never used anything other than tap water - for mixing my own formulae from raw chemicals and for all my working solutions. The only difference I've ever encountered was a few (38) years ago when I moved from Lancashire to South Wales - all my film dev times needed adjusting - increasing to get the same results. My water supply comes from a local reservoir and is gravity fed from a treatment works on the hillside. No idea what 'mysteries' are in this water but it works fine for me. Thanks for the tests Roger - makes for some interesting observations.
So you instantly noticed the change in your negs?
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Hi Rog, At the time I moved home I was using my own 'variation' of ID-11 diluted 1:3. Normal dev time for FP4 was 11 mins @ 22C. To get the same tonal range I had to increase the time to 14 mins and have used this 'new' time ever since. The only difference was the local water supply. I live in the Rhondda Valley, South Wales. A friend living in Lincolnshire uses the same film and developer but has to dev his film for 16 mins. Only difference - water!
In 47 years of darkroom work Ive only ever used tap water .. however .. I’m in British Columbia Canada and my tap water is glacier fed spring water. Other locations may not have the same level of water quality so it varies from region to region. The only way to know for sure is to try developing with both and see if there is a difference.
Ours is hard and I'm guaranteed water spots when I hang up film to dry if I'm not careful. Photo-flo is a godsend.
I use distilled water for my D76 and fix simply because I don't want particulates settling out in my jugs for weeks or months on end. For one shot it doesn't matter.
Thanks a lot for your content
Thanks for this! When you use the prince aid is it the last bath or do you rinse it afterwards as well? I will use Kodak Photo Flo. Is one drop of Photo Flo in a Patterson tank too much? Thanks in Advance. Do you use a squeegee or just your fingers?
Seems like something I'll have to try out too. Having soft water here in Wales, I haven't seen any issues when developing.
Another interesting video! Very hard water here in Kent, seems to only be an issue with the drying though. Thanks Roger.
I just realised Dean you can check you water hardness online! Ours is hard. Still tasted nice lol
Very insightful. I was definately intrigued, having previously dismissed the whole "thow must use distilled...", but maybe it does make a difference. Not sure I am too fussed about it right it now, but will keep it in mind going forward.
I use tap water which is hard in our area, but it’s always boiled and cooled and haven’t seen any issues, well I’m happy with it.
Pretty cool - thanks for putting in the effort and test these :).
It makes sense that there are some slight different results. Each country/region gets their water supply from different sources and it makes sense they will treat that water with different chemicals and have a slightly different PH value.
I guess, as you said, for hardcore film photographers this is very important... especially if they care about consistency.
It would be. Spending days/weeks shooting 10x8 negs to sell for £££ and use tap water. you wouldn't surely.
When I worked in a lab, all of our solutions were made using distilled water. Distilled water has no impurities dissolved into it, like calcium carbonate, which makes water hard and scales your kettle that comes from the rocks it’s flowed through and why water is harder in different parts of the UK, fluoride is added for better teeth, chlorine is added to kill bacteria, the list goes on. All these impurities are ok to drink, but can alter the properties or effectiveness of the solutions. Distilled water is a bit expensive for rinsing, so tap water and rinse aid is ok. De-ionised water isn’t the same as distilled for lots of complicated reasons 😁.
Thanks for doing all the things we were going to do but never got round to.
Well done.
My pleasure!
Thanks a lot for sharing this cool experiment :-) I have been wondering as well as we have hard tap water here in Copenhagen. I will definitely try out distilled water. Cheers!
Thanks for the fun test. I'm in Montreal. When I started developing b&w at home I used distilled water to be safe. Eventually I tried tap water as the distilled contributed almost half my cost per roll. For 120 film tap water seems fine with either Ilfosol 3 or HC-110. However for 35mm, tap water in the final wash led to lots of spotting, even with washaid. Someone online said 120 and 35mm have some different coatings. I haven't explored this extensively, I just use distilled with washaid in the final rinse for 35mm, so far no spotting issues. One point, developers are basic (pH >7) solutions so alkaline water should probably not affect that aspect. Metal contaminants or even chlorine might be another matter. Stop is acid, if it has an indicator dye and stays yellow in your tap water then again pH not a problem.
When I first started developing my own films, I asked around and almost everyone said to us distilled water for all my chems.. main reason being where I live in South Australia our tap water is very hard, and was told it was bad for causing streaking and spotting on films. I do use tap water when I do my stop bath, but then rinse with distilled water before putting in the fixer, then another final rinse with distilled water after the last washing. I've never had any issues so far so have stuck to my method. I'm lucky with being able to get large 10 litre containers of distilled water quite cheaply form my local auto parts store, a few minutes from my place.
Stick with it if it works for you. No need to change. Great on the availablily and price
I don´t process black & white, but mostly C-41, RA-4 and E-6. With films I use distilled water with stabilizer after final wash to avoid drying marks caused by very hard water in my area. Otherwise I find using distilled water unnecessary in photographic processes.
I usually mix my chems with tap since it's easier to get the tap up to a certain temp than it is to get distilled chems up to temp (talking mostly C-41 here) and I just do the final 30-60s of my wash with distilled water and/or mix in a few squirts of stabilizer with just enough distilled water to cover the reels. Since I started washing with distilled water, I've been getting much better results! Less spotting, less dust/specks, etc.
Going all Dragons Den on us with the Three Tank Agitation Cradle. If I lived in a hard water area I would consider using distilled water only because of the white sediment which can appear, thing is, you have been getting stunning results for years now with seemingly no issues.
My kitchen sink water goes through two filters. One is an activated charcoal so the water is pretty good but a mate installed a reverse osmosis system in his house. I’ll be getting mine from there from now on.
Litmus paper is cheap to buy and will give you a reasonably accurate measure of the ph of your water.
I think I'll need to try some distilled!
I’ve always used tap water but wondered if distilled would make a difference. I live on the west coast of Canada so our water is very clean. You solved my curiosity 👍
Hahahaha just found this after asking you this very question on another video...lol
I've always wondered about this! Thank you. Do you have a video on agitation? I feel like when I agitate it by rotating/shaking it vigoursly I see more grain vs simply spinning it gently. Is that generally true?
I have a few Wednesdays ago.
I'm not surprised at your results. Many municipalities will treat their drinking water to have a PH of 8 or 9 and freshly distilled water typically has a PH of 7, but as it's exposed to air, it tends to absorb carbon dioxide from the air, and so the PH has a tendency to drop over time to 5.8 or 6. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter as long as the water is consistently the same PH over time. For that reason I use distilled water and limit its exposure to air as my local municipality gets most of its water from a river source and the PH changes over the course of the year. The goal more than anything is consistency.
When I started developing film, I used distilled water to be safe. Later I did as well some tests with distilled and our soft tap water. Because I didn't notice any quality differences, I stayed with tap water.
B/W devs are buffered solutions so with my non-extreme tap water I don't bother.
I have 4l of photo-flo in distilled water that I reuse dozens of times, takes care of minerals from tapwater that may show up in drying.
I do however use distilled with C41 and E6. Those are very pH sensitive.
Tap water changes one a regular basis at a single source as well, just check the water companies reports; generally a minimum, mean and maximum figure for each feature is given and there is often a wide swing. I figure you'd see a lot more variance in your negatives if anything was having an impact. The only impact I have noticed is at the washing stage, I have to be more thorough else I get deposits from my slightly hard tap supply compared to bottled water.
I since checked. It's hard! 111.2 mg/l calcium
If you have good quality tap water, all should be fine. It's the high calcium content in hard to very hard water that could leave spots or rings after drying. A stop bath will not be effected very much in practice. Just to be sure, I use the wetting agent in distilled water to avoid any calcium stains. I have excellent spring water from the Alps, but it is very hard. Normally, you can check with your water supplier. Careful, even within the same town, there can be big differences, depending on the source.
Another fun video. Dark areas seem the same, but the highlights of the distilled seem brighter (not faded). Could be natural light variations. The tiny bit of sharpness variation could be minor camera vibration differences. I'll continue using distilled, but now may need to test it myself with mirror locked, weighted tripod, and controlled lighting. Maybe you could get a still and distill your own. :-)
My Mamiya was mirror up taking the pics. It was dull overcast outside and I took the shots quick. I was careful scanning using the DSLR so not to cause vibrations. But you never know!
I only use distilled water with xtol as it's known for behaving badly with iron contamination over time. Water is very hard why I am so I also use distilled water for final rinse.
I had two XTOL batches last year that after mixing had tiny floaters in it. I had to keep filtering it. A real pain. That was tap water. And I have mixed plenty of XTOL. I went over to ID-11 for a while.
Interestinnnng Mrrrr Bonnnnnnd :-)
For me, I use jug filtered water for mixing the dev. Deionised or bottled still water with the lowest ph (6.5 or lower and as cheap as poss) for the stop and the rinsing, i dont use a rinse aid and I get nice clean negs with no drying marks at all. If i use tap for rinsing on its own it leaves a mess. The water in Berkshire where I live is very hard with a ph of 8.
If I don't use rinse aid I sometimes get streaks. I always use it or a drop of washing up liquid.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss thats the chalky residue in the water 😑. I use the Ilford method of rinsing with three seperate tank fulls of water but I always forget how many inversions ive done so Im stood there agitatin for ages 😂. But as long as ive done 3 or 4 rinses its all nice and streak free negs 👍🏽.
Very interesting test. Here in Texas, we have 150 ppm calcium in the water, so, not too hard (IIRC, about 400 ppm is considered hard water, and it can go up from there). I always use distilled water for the developer (Kodak XTOL) and the film wash (Kodak PhotoFlo), and tap water for everything else. Seems to work well, and my development seems to follow manufacture's published times/dilutions with good contrast. BTW, I am transitioning to Ilford products so support the good people in Mobberley.
I just checked online. Our water is HARD. 111.2 mg/ of calcium.
What does it mean when your negatives are sticky after developing using Cinestill Monobath? I have some distilled water for the next wash out.
They will be tacky until dry
I too thought that the highlights were a little more prominent by using the distilled water. But there are so many variables, such as temp, time, agitation and post processing etc, is it really worth the expense of buying water? Although, I have considered using distilled water for washing film because it doesn’t have the minerals and impurities that could be left on the film from the drying process. Distilled water is available from motor factors (it’s used in the coolant system).
I tried two gas stations. No distilled there! We used to use it for car batteries.
I don't know, seems to be quite a difference honestly. Look at the NS and the texture in the leather at 4:06, distilled looks sharper. Right?
I can't see it! A few have said the same. I need new glasses!
I actually use reverse osmosis water for developing and the darkroom paper. Mainly because I have to make it anyway for the reef tank, though it is free of all TDS's
Is 4x5 more susceptible to issues than 35mm or MF? Being a larger area?
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss I don't think so but it would be more noticeable on the negative. I know good development techniques is crucial for even development in big areas of of plain sky, but it really isn't that hard.
I have never used distilled water to develop my negatives, always used tap water. I had remorse at times, but now I know that the imperfections in my negatives came from other reasons. ;-)))
Very interesting! Never bothered with distilled water myself, but I tried filtering tap water once. Didn't see much of a difference, but the tap water here in Norway is generally pretty neutral and clean. Denmark on the other hand... If you ever find yourself developing film in Denmark, use distilled water!
Interesting! That's what I read Don. From area to area people have seen a difference
Greetings for Greece!
Great video, as always :)
I used distilled water when I started developing film but switched to filtered tap water because getting distilled was a hassle where I live. I could only find the kind with perfumes in it, used for ironing.
I couldn't see any discernible difference between distilled and filtered tap water. Though I should mention that I haven't tried developing with unfiltered tap water as , where I live, it has visible particles floating in it.
Holidaying in Greece many years ago we never drank the tap water as you say it wasn't clear.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Yes, it is a major problem around the country, even in big cities. It's not that it is untreated or anything, it's the grime from the 50 - 70 year old pipes between the treatment plant and the tap.
Developing for 20+ years I have never ever considered using tap water. The pH is one thing but all the minerals and chlorine they add to it, who knows which one does what with the chemicals.
Think I am going to try Bottled water when I make my next batch up. Interesting Video
It's cheap Kathatine. I did think about that
I just checked online. Our water is HARD. 111.2 mg/ of calcium.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss mine tastes yukky always drink bottled water
The deionised looked sharper and with more contrast. I can't see a difference with the other 2.
I couldn't see the sharpness, others have. Interesting. And worrying!
Heh. You must be a few years younger than I am -- the photos of me when I was that age are black and white.
The advice from the experts for many years has been to mix your stock solution with distilled (primarily for longevity), but dilute with tap if you like (unless you see a seasonal change, as happens some places). The last rinse, with rinse aid, is widely advised to be done with distilled water (just to reduce the chance of junk from the water or the pipes landing on your negatives). Your test with Rodinal probably reduces the effect of hard tap water, however, because Rodinal has such a high pH to begin with. If you did the same test with D-23, the starting pH of the water would make a lot more difference (because D-23 has no added alkali, only the slight alkalinity of the sodium sulfite).
But kudos to you for actually testing it. I've never done so -- distilled water isn't expensive (at least where I am, just over a dollar a gallon) and now I have immediate access to deionized water we produce for a salt water aquarium; I mix stock solution with that, and run replenished Xtol (and replenished Flexicolor for C-41), so I don't use *any* water in my process except the wash. My well water is pretty clean, but my final rinse is mixed with the DI water.
And now I'm (kinda) famous! I've been mentioned on the channel! Woo-hoo!
1972. All our school pics were colour. We used to have a flower growing competition at school from bulb to flower. The winner got a colour photo of a flower and the runners up for a black and white photo of a flower. How times change! Anyway, thanks for the value. Appreciate it. I am going to move forward mixing the powder in distilled and rinse too. Normal tap for everything else.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Okay, you got me, school pictures were color even in first grade (1965). Photographer came in with a long-roll camera, umbrella flashes, sat each student on a stool, focused with a string, and *pop* -- first time I ever saw a flash photo that didn't run on one-shot bulbs. Didn't even really register until I had a camera of my own and had to pay almost as much for a dozen bulbs as for a a 12 exposure roll of Verichrome Pan.
Nothing to lose using distilled water where it might matter. Especially now that you know where to get it locally.
Interesting. I find it impossible to find distilled water but easy to find deionized water, I wonder if the results will be the same. Thank you for the test.
Demineralized and deionized should be practically the same. Some places call it battery water. Distilled should be even cleaner than those. At least that's my understanding of it.
Distilled is water boiled and the vapour is collected. De-ionised has a different process but probably both as good as each other for film.
I noticed a bit more grain detail in the distilled one.
Not sure if it's grain or that it's just sharper.
Definitely getting my eye checked!
If there is somebody who drinks (distilled)water from the supermarkt you better study it first there is a lot to find on the internet about this
Distilled water is an idea which I think came from America, lot is photography friends seem to use it. Always used tap water- well our is soft.
I speak to there US film shooters a lot and they used distilled. How do we test if out water is soft or hard?
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss your local water authority should tell you. Got to their website and put your town in and it should come up. I did it with our to check it was soft like I thought it was as we get our water from the same place as Liverpool.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss just googled the water for the Isle of Wight and your very hard water- which means it’s hard to get a lather for bubble bath ,shampoo and dish washing also means you kettle gets furred up quickly
the purity of the water affects not so much the quality of the first development, but how quickly your solution dies or on which film in the account, minus the number of films on distilled water.
Otherwise, everything will be perfect at the first development! Who would doubt that. )))) you will compare at 9-10 development.
So you're saying powder developer mixed in distilled water will develop more rolls of film consistantly over time than tap water?
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss solutions mixed with tap water are much less stored, much more likely to be defective, stains and other defects from time to time developing.
It is not for nothing that they are recommended to be developed in distilled water - precisely because of the absence of salts and other solutes that spoil solutions. This is basically the basics of film development.
The most that can be done is to dilute a disposable solution in tap water, for example 1 + 3 id-11 or Rodinal.
then POSSIBLY there will be no defects.
If you have trouble finding distilled water then maybe get car battery water from a gas station or such?
That's what I use. It's called deionised water.
I tried two gas stations. No water at all! Apart from Buxton!
I'm number 1 again. !!!!!!!!! I've just used distilled water. It's cheap. I also use it in auto drip coffee makers, so the small ports don't get plugged with miners, which is a proplem where I live at the moment.
almost forgot, its a nice composition. I would gladly have it on the wall in my den/mancave/bunker
Can you drink it?
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss my wife does. I hate coffee, I have only drank one cup in my life and I was ordered to drink it by the corporal of the guard. Seems that when you are guarding nuclear weapons they want you to stay awake
What is LOFT water ?
Ha ha, tank water for showers and baths. Tank sits in the loft. We don't drink that stuff.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss precipitation?
To my eye the distilled water image of the close up of the lock seemed to have more detail than the other two. If you look at the area of above and to the left of the NS it seems more detailed. Also, possibly, maybe the leather area directly to the right of the rivets seem to have the most detail in the distilled water version, second best in the tap water, and third place for the hot water tap; but the those differences to me are much less obvious than the ones near the NS. It could all be due to the scan, camera movement, or possibly just natural variation in the film itself, maybe. OR maybe it is some form of madness on my part, is the moon full? Does silver halide work like a silver bullet? Which is most real: the Yeti, the chupacabra, global warming, taxes, or space aliens, or women's hot flashes, you must choose ONE answer only. You may not consult a female or friend before choosing. Depending on your answer you will, or possibly not be awarded something at some future date, maybe, but it won't be valuable and it won't be that discontinued Fuji 400 whatever film. It may only be a thumbs up. ;) (Nice video.)
LOL! Space Aliens.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss You have chosen most wisely my son! Also I surmise you are married having avoided the only other wise choice and the discussion of which is always to be avoided and brings merely the wrath of women. I shall now activate the positive, and non-driving, digit of communication.
hi Roger, I only use distilled water that I get to the canisters. in this I can hand in the used chemicals to the disposal site. It doesn't matter to me, what I drink myself is also good for my films. Otherwise we will be so far at some point that you should only use "hand-scooped" water blessed by the priest.
Greeting
Rolf
www.bildgestalter.ch
I do the same Rolf. Save the containers for used chemicals.
I would not bother . Tap water is good enough for me.
That's the spirit!
If you buy destilled water in a supermarket its not destilled !
I used underground filtered water, my water is really soft it wouldn't even register in the water testing machine. I've never tried anything else.
Destilled water is 0 ppm real destilled water is like rain also 0 ppm And never drink (distilled) water from a supermarkt !!!!
So rain water in a bucket then filtered would be distilled?
If its raining for a while so the sky is clean of dust etc and then you collect rainwater you can drink it and it is zero parts per million
And there is a bit hydrogen in it what is good for your health and plants
And tap water is full of shi...
@@saintpaul9462 I was, instead of loft water going to use rain water that has been collected in a bucket for weeks... How about if I filtered it? Think it would be clean?