wrong about the Headwind. The one and only case where you have to change the Speed to fly (increase the MC setting) is in final glide against head wind when you have sufficient altitude and no need to thermal. In every other case you can forget the earth as reference and think only about the surrounding airmass as reference in which you need to fly and thermal. Thus, the MC setting on a cross country flight is independend of wind. If you would do the math, you would see that if you would fly faster against head wind (as you suggest), you would also spend more time in thermaling while beeing pushed packwards against the "earth" reference.
Thanks for your comment, I really enjoy your videos! I had to re-watch my old video what I was saying, it’s 5y since I made it. But, it is correct. All transportation you do in a glider is earth-fixed, waypoints and next thermals. Thermals are generally generated and triggered in the same place, earth-fixed. Flying in mountains this is more obvious than in flat land, but true for both. If flying a task, your waypoints are also earth-fixed. This might be easier to visualise when looking at an extreme case: wind speed same as best glide ratio speed. If you fly at best glide ratio speed and don’t adjust for headwind you will vertically just sink ,and if you start to thermal you will actually move backwards. The general rule of thumb is to add 1/3 of the headwind to your speed. If your headwind is 30km/h you add 10km/h to you MC speed. If you don’t do that you will just fly at a lower MC.
For my theoretical understanding headwind is calculated into MC as done in the video...as long as you are heading for an earth fixed target (target or turn point) MC setting incl. wind supports your speed. Headwind: fly faster - tailwind fly slower but never below min. sink...where doesn't this match your practical experience?
@@stke1689 @Niklas I would rather try to think as flying on long leg where you have several glides and several thermals first. Thermals are not earth fixed in flatlands. You will immediatly see this if you look at your flight tracks. If you have a 30km/h wind, you are moving backwards with the wind with nearly 30km/h. It is maybe slightly less because a thermal offers some inertia and resistance, but thats nearly negligible. And therefore, you only pay a price if you try to outsmart the MC theory in headwinds, because you need to thermal more... There are situations where you have to adjust the MC with windspeed and that is in earth fixed upwinds and that is usually the case in wave conditions. Please read Cochrane: MacCready Theory in Wave for a better understanding. Cochrane says: In classic thermal lift, the thermals drift with the wind, so MacCready theory is unaffected by wind speed. You fly as fast as you can through the air, the fact that the ground is moving a different way is unimportant. This is really such a common misunderstanding, that people try to fly faster against a headwind and its dead wrong in most "normal" cases. Like Cochrane said, MC theory is UNCHANGED in flatfland thermals. In tasks where you have a short leg remaining against the wind and need to arrive above a certain AGL altitude, situation is more complicated. In some cases if you are low, it can even make sense to fly SLOWER against the headwind to avoid at any costs taking a thermal in the headwind leg (which can be extremyl expensive in weak conditions. But this depends on wind and your average thermal and depends on a lot of factors.
@@LSVFlachkurbler Any chance you could take a look at my video I made a couple weeks ago on Glide Distance vs. Glide Ratio vs. Headwind/Tailwind? I independently figured this stuff out because I didn't know the keywords to research and whatever I found doesn't account for Horizontal Headwind/Tailwind. There are time stamps to skip around me "showing my work" explaining my analysis. th-cam.com/video/t9qqtyzWVj4/w-d-xo.html
Thank you OP, I have a much more simplified idea on this, fly above the line and you stall and sink, fly below and lose altitude though you gain in speed. IMHO this is where the AIR Glide aka Butterfly vario comes in, it can factor in wind. Watching Bruno Vassel's videos I learned a lot. You are right on the MacCready, understanding this concept is fundamental to anything beyond glideport soaring planning, miss a few thermals and ridges and you will outland, or let greed cloud your judgement, like the mavericks at Sugarbush trying to take the shortcut over the forest (gaggle tangle excluded). Disclaimer: Condor 2 simulator seat pilot here, no real experience:(
I Agree! BUT do not fly way too fast either! Again my last competition flight it was one of the mistakes that made me end up 8th place in stead of a podium place. I have analyzed the IGC file of the winner (Dutch Junior champion flying a Cirrus!) and my own. What I found out was that during cruise he loses way less altitude than I do, in fact he has an average CLIMB of 0.2 m/s during cruise, where I had 0.9 m/s SINK during cruise.. a result of me flying way too fast, so I needed more time in thermals to compensate for the unnecessary lost altitude. This was quite an eye opener, as I tend to fly faster and faster between thermals the last few years.. while I do not improve in overall task speed, which starts to feel a little bit frustrating.. To improve overall task speed it might be a good idea to fly a little bit slower during cruise with longer cruises and pay indeed more attention to the mcready value and adjust speed to that. So not really follow the speed command, but fly more or less what is in line with the average Mcready value that LK8000 calculates for me. Next week I go to Klix in Germany, for a 2 week cross country vacation (not a competition) so let see if this idea works.
I agree with this theory when flying a task me and the winner both stayed above 1000m throughout the flight but I thermalled 21 times and he only thermalled 10 times resulting in him finishing 30mins faster. This was in fact the result of me flying too fast in-between thermals. So in conclusion pay much more attention to mc theory!
Hi Niklas, thanks for your nice videos. I agree that instruments have a delay. What do you think of the modern flight computers like ERA or S100? they calculate the wind quite accurately even in straight flight so they are able to estimate the head wind. I assume that their speed to fly command should consider the wind
wrong about the Headwind. The one and only case where you have to change the Speed to fly (increase the MC setting) is in final glide against head wind when you have sufficient altitude and no need to thermal. In every other case you can forget the earth as reference and think only about the surrounding airmass as reference in which you need to fly and thermal. Thus, the MC setting on a cross country flight is independend of wind. If you would do the math, you would see that if you would fly faster against head wind (as you suggest), you would also spend more time in thermaling while beeing pushed packwards against the "earth" reference.
Thanks for your comment, I really enjoy your videos! I had to re-watch my old video what I was saying, it’s 5y since I made it. But, it is correct. All transportation you do in a glider is earth-fixed, waypoints and next thermals. Thermals are generally generated and triggered in the same place, earth-fixed. Flying in mountains this is more obvious than in flat land, but true for both. If flying a task, your waypoints are also earth-fixed. This might be easier to visualise when looking at an extreme case: wind speed same as best glide ratio speed. If you fly at best glide ratio speed and don’t adjust for headwind you will vertically just sink ,and if you start to thermal you will actually move backwards. The general rule of thumb is to add 1/3 of the headwind to your speed. If your headwind is 30km/h you add 10km/h to you MC speed. If you don’t do that you will just fly at a lower MC.
For my theoretical understanding headwind is calculated into MC as done in the video...as long as you are heading for an earth fixed target (target or turn point) MC setting incl. wind supports your speed. Headwind: fly faster - tailwind fly slower but never below min. sink...where doesn't this match your practical experience?
@@stke1689 @Niklas I would rather try to think as flying on long leg where you have several glides and several thermals first. Thermals are not earth fixed in flatlands. You will immediatly see this if you look at your flight tracks. If you have a 30km/h wind, you are moving backwards with the wind with nearly 30km/h. It is maybe slightly less because a thermal offers some inertia and resistance, but thats nearly negligible. And therefore, you only pay a price if you try to outsmart the MC theory in headwinds, because you need to thermal more... There are situations where you have to adjust the MC with windspeed and that is in earth fixed upwinds and that is usually the case in wave conditions. Please read Cochrane: MacCready Theory in Wave for a better understanding. Cochrane says: In classic thermal lift, the thermals drift with the wind, so MacCready theory is unaffected by wind speed. You fly as fast as you can through the air, the fact that the ground is moving a different way is unimportant.
This is really such a common misunderstanding, that people try to fly faster against a headwind and its dead wrong in most "normal" cases. Like Cochrane said, MC theory is UNCHANGED in flatfland thermals.
In tasks where you have a short leg remaining against the wind and need to arrive above a certain AGL altitude, situation is more complicated. In some cases if you are low, it can even make sense to fly SLOWER against the headwind to avoid at any costs taking a thermal in the headwind leg (which can be extremyl expensive in weak conditions. But this depends on wind and your average thermal and depends on a lot of factors.
@@LSVFlachkurbler Any chance you could take a look at my video I made a couple weeks ago on Glide Distance vs. Glide Ratio vs. Headwind/Tailwind? I independently figured this stuff out because I didn't know the keywords to research and whatever I found doesn't account for Horizontal Headwind/Tailwind. There are time stamps to skip around me "showing my work" explaining my analysis. th-cam.com/video/t9qqtyzWVj4/w-d-xo.html
Thank you OP, I have a much more simplified idea on this, fly above the line and you stall and sink, fly below and lose altitude though you gain in speed. IMHO this is where the AIR Glide aka Butterfly vario comes in, it can factor in wind. Watching Bruno Vassel's videos I learned a lot. You are right on the MacCready, understanding this concept is fundamental to anything beyond glideport soaring planning, miss a few thermals and ridges and you will outland, or let greed cloud your judgement, like the mavericks at Sugarbush trying to take the shortcut over the forest (gaggle tangle excluded). Disclaimer: Condor 2 simulator seat pilot here, no real experience:(
I Agree! BUT do not fly way too fast either! Again my last competition flight it was one of the mistakes that made me end up 8th place in stead of a podium place. I have analyzed the IGC file of the winner (Dutch Junior champion flying a Cirrus!) and my own.
What I found out was that during cruise he loses way less altitude than I do, in fact he has an average CLIMB of 0.2 m/s during cruise, where I had 0.9 m/s SINK during cruise.. a result of me flying way too fast, so I needed more time in thermals to compensate for the unnecessary lost altitude. This was quite an eye opener, as I tend to fly faster and faster between thermals the last few years.. while I do not improve in overall task speed, which starts to feel a little bit frustrating.. To improve overall task speed it might be a good idea to fly a little bit slower during cruise with longer cruises and pay indeed more attention to the mcready value and adjust speed to that. So not really follow the speed command, but fly more or less what is in line with the average Mcready value that LK8000 calculates for me.
Next week I go to Klix in Germany, for a 2 week cross country vacation (not a competition) so let see if this idea works.
Marco Nierop hello, so what were your findings?
I agree with this theory when flying a task me and the winner both stayed above 1000m throughout the flight but I thermalled 21 times and he only thermalled 10 times resulting in him finishing 30mins faster. This was in fact the result of me flying too fast in-between thermals. So in conclusion pay much more attention to mc theory!
This could be also flying the energy line problem ?
Hi Niklas, thanks for your nice videos. I agree that instruments have a delay. What do you think of the modern flight computers like ERA or S100? they calculate the wind quite accurately even in straight flight so they are able to estimate the head wind. I assume that their speed to fly command should consider the wind
Why do you have to speak over stupid music?
And what about the squeaky pen ?