Thank you for being such a gracious and wonderful host, Johanna! I thoroughly enjoyed learning from you and the rest of our friends, even the devilish ones. 😁
Thank you for participating, Jimmy! It really is the best time to be reading this series! I need to have you back on my channel for future discussions. 😊
I started reading Malazan in the summer of 2020, and at the time there was a fairly limited amount of content about the series on TH-cam. Watching all of you guys and many other creators help grow this community with long form discussions like these, analysis videos, Cam and Steve interviews, and so much more, has been such a joy to watch grow over the last couple years. The Hard work and passion from you lot does not go unnoticed. A sincere thanks to you all and everyone else for making this truly feel like a golden age of Malazan. :)
Thank you so much! That's very meaningful to hear. I'm happy to bring any attention to Malazan Book of the Fallen. This series has moved me in a way no other book or series has, and it's an honor to share these discussions with friends and the community at large. I appreciate it!
The High Mages of the Malazan discussions have gathered! Thank you, for hosting such a great discussion, Johanna! Hearing all your different perspectives in this discussion and on all those other panels has definitely enriched my reading experience of the series. Thank you, to all of you!
Thank you so much for your support! These friends have all been part of my journey reading through the books, so this was a fun and special way to celebrate finishing an incredible, life-changing series!
Ohh how exciting! Although I must say I prefer Jimmy’s strategy of not announcing Allen as a guest and having him show up out of nowhere 20 minutes in. I find that dramatic entrance style more becoming of him
I read Gardens of the Moon in January and will probably get Deadhouse Gates this month, hearing you guys talk about this series is always fun and keeps my interest in it at the maximum. I enjoyed GotM, gave it 4*, it has some pretty good moments and great characters, especially Anomander Rake and Paran who really stole the show in this book for me (and given Raest's badass introduction at the end of the book I'm sure he will eventually be a favorite). But the series is still intimidating because so many things are happening everywhere and books just keep getting longer; so these videos really help me have the courage and motivation to read the books. I hope the pay off for Daedhouse Gates is just as good as Gardens of the Moon.
I’m so glad if this video was encouraging for you! Love hearing your thoughts here on Gardens of the Moon. I can understand the intimidation factor just looking at the word count for the books, and it really is a balance between trusting the process and taking some time to note details. The books are not easy reads, but I think the journey is well worth it. Hope you enjoy Deadhouse Gates!
I just ordered the first 5 books of this series. Malazan has been on my radar for a while now and you all finally convinced me to venture into this world.
Great to see so many diverse and excellent perspectives on a series that is perfectly suited for such discussion. No matter how many Malazan discussion videos I watch, I always pick up something new and interesting from these talks. Thank you to all and looking forward to the next one!🥳🥳🥳
Thank you so much! This is a series I feel like I will never tire of discussing. There’s so much to explore in these books, and they evoke so many different experiences in different readers. Always a pleasure!
50% through Reapers Gale at the moment and really struggling with it. Alot of times i have not a clue whats happening with new characters being introduce but there is something about these books that keep you plodding along.
I had some struggles feeling invested in the some of the new characters introduced in Reaper’s Gale, and my experience shifted as I read on. Hope you find it worthwhile!
Good stuff! Fwiw, Toll The Hounds was my clear favorite of the series. I love Rake and by extension his people, and that book was a great portrait of an enigmatic character. I loved the philosophy, as well.
Thank you! Toll the Hounds is what Erikson considers the cipher in the series and definitely the go-to book for those who love Rake and the Tiste Andii. I enjoyed examining the themes and discussing it with others.
I love this group conversation! It's all I've got since I don't personally know anyone who would read it. My first read (2017) was like Philip's, just pure reading, no referencing anything else for context. It was like being thrown in the deep end and told to sink or swim, but I loved every minute. My second read (2021) I busted out a notepad for notes and unanswered questions, and like Allen I constantly referred to the maps, characters, and glossary (and wiki too). To my surprise I barely needed to take any notes, things made SO MUCH more sense the second time. Even though I didn't remember all the plot beats, it all came flooding back and I easily felt at home in the world the second time through. My favorite books were the "Darujhistan trilogy" - Gardens of the Moon, Memories of Ice, and Toll the Hounds.
@@Johanna_reads I found the Malazan Wiki was very friendly in terms of blocking spoilers from the unwary. It's a good way to refresh yourself on a character mid-read without going too far ahead or revealing too much.
I thank the TH-cam overlords for putting this video on my home page today! I’ve been watching a bit of Malazan videos recently, in an effort to give the series a shot, and I think this discussion gave me the most incentive to do so! Great thoughts from all 5 of you here! I think I’m ready to put Malazan on the TBR for 2023.
Fantastic, Josh! I'm very excited to hear your thoughts on the series. No series has impacted me like this one has, and I hope the discussions are encouraging.
I enjoyed the whole video, but the ending where all you shared who you would say the series is for was what really sold it, because everyone had very different answers and took very different things from the series. I think I'll likely try to recruit some newbie Malazan booktubers to read together so have some noob discussions! It seems like that can be helpful. Thanks again!
@@RedFuryBooks That would be fantastic! I never recommend the series lightly because it is complex, triggering, and not typically what people expect from fantasy, but I actually think there’s a great chance that you and Alex would love it! I’m excited that you’re sold to start it!
It's only been two days since I firmly decided to read it, and I can't stop thinking about it. That looks weird when I type it, but I'm seriously excited to read this series!
I describe this series as “blackbelt level fantasy”. Its good to have a nice base of fantasy books under your belt before diving in. And even then, read Gardens on the Moon twice. It makes sense the second time around
Great video everyone! I am looking forward to starting my Malazan journey this January and am grateful that all of you have Malazan videos on your channel to use as a reference throughout my journey.
I'm just happy this world is getting the attention it deserves. I've been through the series 3 times and each time I get more out of it. I've been ranting for years to anyone who will listen that malazan book of the fallen beats out every other fantasy series.
Only about 30 mins in but really enjoying the chat so far. Really interesting conversation about how much you accept you won't understand everything versus taking detailed notes and trying to make every connection. Looking back I spent so much time writing notes for Memories of Ice and perhaps unsurprisingly it then took me 2/3 months to pick up House of Chains! Generally I try and enjoy the ride and be grateful that I'll get so much more out of a reread.
Thank you for sharing that! I don’t know that I retain the copious amounts of notes I take, but I do think the act of note-taking forces me to absorb things more deeply than if I simply read the books without pause. I’m glad we shared different perspectives on that because I really think there’s a fine balance there, and one set of guidelines does not apply universally.
It's funny, I know I'm _going_ to read MBotF someday, I've been sold that it's a mandatory read for a year at least - I'm sure I won't do it any time too soon, and yet I can't resist my favorite booktuber's many non-spoiler chats/gushing about it - I love the excitement, and the slow-build hype it's giving me. As if it's *the* peak fantasy achievement, along with Neal Stephenson.
Thank you! I hope you enjoy it if you start! As much as I loved the series, it’s still hard to recommend to everyone because it’s not exactly bingeable, escapist fantasy (through there are cool, crazy things and great humor). But if you’re up for a strange, powerful, introspective fantasy series examining humanity, definitely go for it! And then let me know all your thoughts. 😁
Dang! Now I want to restart Malazan. Planning to pick up again in April! I agree that the Malaztube community is really a great support system while going through the series! It surely did help me. :) Thanks for doing this video , Johanna. Loved it!
This was a fantastic video. I'm happy to hear Jimmy say, and you all agree that while Erikson works on the themes first, he's never telling you how to feel about something. I could not feel sorry for a certain character in Deadhouse Gates and I was told that I'm not reading the series right - and that irked me a little but I'm happy to know now that its different for everyone and not the same thing is appealing. hell you guys all like different books in the series so there isn't a definite order either
I’m sorry you had that experience! I do believe discussion deepens the experience of reading Malazan, and there is a skillful way to navigate disagreements that not everyone has mastered. The five of us have had very different experiences with this series. I think mine might be closest to Jimmy’s, and I’m hoping to have Philip’s on reread.
@@Johanna_reads indeed. I will be reading Memories of Ice soon. Finished DG last night and the ending was phenomenal. Looking forward to watching more spoiler discussions.
This stream was a pleasant surprise. Will be jumping on Malazan as soon as I finish "The Wheel". Its my second major book series to read, (Along with Second Apocalypse and The Horus Heresy). But it's gonna be a while I have enough books in my TBR to build a small house so...
Thank you so much! I hope you enjoy Malazan when you get to it. I can empathize with having a massive TBR. I need a book ship to swim through mine. Happy reading!
This was a great video collaboration. I'm now more excited about starting the series, hearing more about the military aspects of the story and the multi-faceted themes focused in different books. Though I am now somewhat concerned about encountering multiple characters with the same or similar names, LOL. Over 600 characters, wow.
I loved the military aspects of this series, and Brittany as well my friend, Ola, dislike military stuff but still appreciated Malazan! As deep as the themes go, there are some pretty awesome battles and convergences too. No better worldbuilding in my opinion as well. As far as characters are concerned, he keeps introducing them even into the final book. I'm terrible with names and had to look them up now and then, but I deeply connected to so many of them. They felt like real people to me at times.
@@Johanna_reads New characters in Book 10 of a series might annoy me, LOL, but we'll find out. It's good to know ahead of time to be prepared for it. :)
My favourite character for the majority of the series was Karsa Orlong but by the end and looking back on the series as a whole, it was Fiddler that became my favourite. And he was a very strong contender since Deadhouse Gates.
I'm a couple of hundred pages into Toll the Hounds, not gonna lie I was nervous initially after not loving Reaper's Gale as much as some of the previous entries (still loved it tho) and given the divisive reception to Toll the Hounds but I am loving it so far.
I’m so glad you’re loving Toll the Hounds! There is a lot to love about the book though I struggled personally connecting to some of it. You’re in for a wild ride with the end of that one, but you could probably have guessed that knowing Erikson’s approach to endings. :)
Reading Toll the Hounds now. I remember people saying if you can get through the first book, the others are way different. Made me worried I wouldn't like them because the first book was great. I liked the first few books more since they were more straightforward warfare and less philosophical. It also seemed his writing style changed around the time of Hounds and characters seemed to be written differently. Kruppe, Tehol, and Quick Ben are my favorites.
I came for the angel and devil memes but stayed for the conversation. I will have to figure out a way to have time to talk with people about this series while I'm reading it. I definitely remember enjoying Stormlight more when I made time to talk about it with people. I still remember some of our RoW conversations. As far as the conversation about looking at maps and other references, I've been doing that less lately, but I think I should go back to doing that more. I like knowing where I am and relative distances, even if they are super important for the plot. It makes everything feel more real to me.
Thank you! I'm honestly terrible when it comes to looking at maps in real life and in fantasy books! 😅 Yes, Gregory, discussing the books is the way to go! I didn't do that much through my journey, but if you can afford to do mid-book chats as well as second-half book chats, you will probably process the books so much better than going at it alone. Glad you came and stayed! 😁
I have been weaving the Erikson and ICE books together as I read through the series. I echo Philip’s comment that the two series complement each other and provide greater insights into their larger world. Great conversation as usual 😊.
Thank you, Francois! I have to believe that's the case, especially considering how often Philip refers to those books in our MBotF discussions. Pretty certain I have an incomplete experience not yet having read them, but wow, what an experience even with just these 10!
@@j.gregoryhenderson6032 Thank you for subscribing! If you’re into discords, I highly recommend checking out Iskar Jarak’s Unabridged Burner’s discord as well as Allen’s (The Library of Allenxandria) #Malazan section of his discord. There are ongoing and welcoming Malazan discussions there, but any of us who do Malazan videos are happy for comment interactions. Happy reading!
I think House of Chains struggles because it follows Memories of ice, which is the high mountain of the beginning, perhaps the best of the series. The second highest peak was the Bonehunters and the third Toll the Hounds, imo.
Thanks for sharing! I think I loved House of Chains more than most readers, but I also thought Bonehunters was brilliantly paced, plotted, and powerful!
I initially struggled with hoc. I put it aside for few months around the halfway point. Three weeks ago I started over with it and for whatever reason it clicked this time. Absolutely loved it. So many amazing moments. I’m going to start midnight tides tomorrow!
I think a lot of the plot confusion I’ve had so far (outside of genuinely difficult to grasp characters like Heboric and the Eres’al) is from how little expositional dialogue Erikson uses. It’s become painfully obvious to notice it reading some other series after Malazan but I guess there’s genuine risk of confusion if you take the other extreme haha.
I've told several people to read Deadhouse Gates before Gardens, just so they could get into the series a little easier. Then read Gardens of the Moon and Memories of Ice and onwards. I personally love Gardens of the Moon but it can be such a slog for new readers to get through.
How interesting! At the time of reading it, I found Deadhouse Gates to be slower-paced and harder to get into than Gardens of the Moon. You have a good point that many readers who don't love Gardens might give up before seeing how much more things open up in DG and beyond!
@@Johanna_reads The reason DG despite being somewhat slower paced than GotM can be a simpler starting point is because it doesn't throw you into what seems to be a story that you "missed" the first book of. There is a lot of rapid fire information for new readers to have to digest that doesn't make sense at first because GotM really can feel like a story that's already been half told, and you're missing the context. I guess when I say slog I don't mean slow paced. Gardens isn't slow in comparison to DG, but it's dense with information that hasn't been set up for you to digest because that was Erikson's writing style. At least that's my opinion about it, other people very likely think I'm wrong lol.
@@tyrantsmisery I appreciate your thoughts on this! I know some have said that it helps to think of Gardens as a prologue, and you know some of the prologues in this series have a very similar feeling. It is a lot to digest, especially as a first time reader!
I felt bad not having Iskar Jarak and other amazing people in this discussion. Four was quite the stretch for me as a host, but I am very much a fan of Iskar Jarak and have much appreciation and respect for what he's done for the Malazan community on BookTube!
I started GoTM 4 different times before I finally got through it (still reading it now), and what I would tell folks now is push through to Book 3. Book 3 is where, finally, all the characters gel, and you know (pretty much) who is who. Before that, its such a large character dump, and that was the challenge for me. Never the story. It was just trying to follow the story and all the characters being thrust at you.
I pressed on though I was tempted to reread the first three. I know several who reread the first few books and enjoyed the series all the more for it. Thanks for sharing your experience!
What is Malazan? Why it’s a series about prehistoric god dogs, gravity-magic wielding cyborg dinosaurs, undead cavemen, psychotic elves, mask wearing samurai and genocidal multi jointed Forkrul Assail that’s what it’s about!!! 😁🧐😁
Malazan is one of those series I want to read but can't start - I can't get through the first book, and I'm a avid fantasy reader who read series like The Wheel of Time and Game of Thrones.
It’s definitely doing it’s own thing. I came into it after reading ASOIAF and a lot of Sanderson. Andy Smith’s video, Malazan: A Postmodern Critique of the Fantasy Genre really helped me understand some of what Erikson was doing differently, but it’s definitely an adjustment and not for every reader or fantasy lover. Best wishes!
I actually think my lack of Fantasy experience was partially why I got into it so easily. I had been far more familiar with classical science fiction stories and structure. But had really only dipped into Tolkien and Sanderson regarding fantasy. (I had read the first asoiaf book and it was not for me) But my lack of Fantasy experience or expectations I credit with why I enjoyed it so much. And the series has made me reach out to read a LOT more fantasy series since. So it's different for every reader and there's nothing wrong with not being into it :)
1.) I love MBotF... but... its not for everyone. I tell anyone who wants to read it, that if you aren't hooked by the end of Deadhouse, you never will be. 2.) Erikson grew a lot as a writer in the time between Gardens being written, and Deadhouse being written. It's okay to start with book 2 (Deadhouse.)
I don't know who he is. But I would like to apologise to Allen for the Malazan fan jumping at him when he was reading MoI. I'm in a Facebook group that's just awesome with it. If we know it's a first read the community comment is just keep reading. Please. So sorry for that dick. But I do look forward to you rereading Allen.
@@Johanna_reads No, thank you, lady .. in my environment hardly anyone knows about "Malazan", let alone Trull Sengar .. or Tehol, who has reached such a level of consciousness that he is above all material, above all prejudices and condemnation; to such an extent, in fact, that the ancient god keeps him company, and even pretends to be his servant .. the dialogues between the two are ingenious .. Hats off to the writer.. So, once again, thank you ..
It's strange that I don't see more people talking about this series. The Wheel of Time seems to be all over these days, despite the fact that, as far as I can tell, at least, it's a pretty average series. But Malazan is the only series I know of that can actually stand up to Tolkien's work in terms of story complexity and lore. But I do feel the need to point out that you are pronouncing "Malazan" wrong. The accent is on the first syllable. MAL-azan, not ma-LA-zan.
Thank you for the pronunciation correction! I hope I can change that after saying it wrong for so long. So true about how this series is comparable to Tolkien's in complexity and lore. Malazan is certainly worthy of the attention it's been receiving, and I believe it will stand the test of time.
Having read all the Malazan books, by both authors, including the Karkanas duo, my only comment is that Erikson increases his expressions of disappointment with the human race of of which he is part with every book. Every fault,failure, and excess from human history is mapped onto the characters and races of his stories and repeated ad nauseam. These are not stories with a moral aspect, they are (at least the later books are) moral treatises draped over stories which struggle to be heard. The latest post MBotF book suffers from the same faults although the telling is enlivened by the characters this time.
I'm starting to get the feeling that y'all want us to read Malazan.
If Philip's wings and Allen's horns don't do it, I don't know what will! 😄
@@Johanna_reads haha
Thank you for being such a gracious and wonderful host, Johanna! I thoroughly enjoyed learning from you and the rest of our friends, even the devilish ones. 😁
Thank you, Philip! I love having you and Allen on my shoulders when reading or discussing Malazan! 😁
Thanks so much for hosting this and having us all on. What a great time for a great series 😁
Thank you for participating, Jimmy! It really is the best time to be reading this series! I need to have you back on my channel for future discussions. 😊
I started reading Malazan in the summer of 2020, and at the time there was a fairly limited amount of content about the series on TH-cam. Watching all of you guys and many other creators help grow this community with long form discussions like these, analysis videos, Cam and Steve interviews, and so much more, has been such a joy to watch grow over the last couple years. The Hard work and passion from you lot does not go unnoticed.
A sincere thanks to you all and everyone else for making this truly feel like a golden age of Malazan. :)
Thank you so much! That's very meaningful to hear. I'm happy to bring any attention to Malazan Book of the Fallen. This series has moved me in a way no other book or series has, and it's an honor to share these discussions with friends and the community at large. I appreciate it!
There's definitely been a Malazan renaissance over the past 3 years or so
The High Mages of the Malazan discussions have gathered!
Thank you, for hosting such a great discussion, Johanna! Hearing all your different perspectives in this discussion and on all those other panels has definitely enriched my reading experience of the series. Thank you, to all of you!
Thank you so much for your support! These friends have all been part of my journey reading through the books, so this was a fun and special way to celebrate finishing an incredible, life-changing series!
What are iskar and AP?
@@Isaiah_McIntoshElder Gods!
@@Isaiah_McIntosh Iskar = Iskar Jarak
A.P. = A.P. Canavan = A Critical Dragon
Two BookTubers. Great channels.
Love the thumbnail
Thanks! I might have had a little too much fun making this one!
Ohh how exciting!
Although I must say I prefer Jimmy’s strategy of not announcing Allen as a guest and having him show up out of nowhere 20 minutes in. I find that dramatic entrance style more becoming of him
Accurate
That entrance even surprised me! Happy to have Allen appear anytime!
I read Gardens of the Moon in January and will probably get Deadhouse Gates this month, hearing you guys talk about this series is always fun and keeps my interest in it at the maximum. I enjoyed GotM, gave it 4*, it has some pretty good moments and great characters, especially Anomander Rake and Paran who really stole the show in this book for me (and given Raest's badass introduction at the end of the book I'm sure he will eventually be a favorite). But the series is still intimidating because so many things are happening everywhere and books just keep getting longer; so these videos really help me have the courage and motivation to read the books. I hope the pay off for Daedhouse Gates is just as good as Gardens of the Moon.
I’m so glad if this video was encouraging for you! Love hearing your thoughts here on Gardens of the Moon. I can understand the intimidation factor just looking at the word count for the books, and it really is a balance between trusting the process and taking some time to note details. The books are not easy reads, but I think the journey is well worth it. Hope you enjoy Deadhouse Gates!
Hearing this discussion kinda makes me want to give Malazan another try! I really enjoyed listening to this!
Thank you so much! Malazan is unlike anything else I’ve ever read, and I hope you enjoy the series if you start!
Thanks again Johanna, holy smokes what a great mega panel of perspectives.
My pleasure! Thank you so much for your support!
I just ordered the first 5 books of this series. Malazan has been on my radar for a while now and you all finally convinced me to venture into this world.
That’s wonderful! I’m so excited for you and hope you enjoy the journey!
Great to see so many diverse and excellent perspectives on a series that is perfectly suited for such discussion. No matter how many Malazan discussion videos I watch, I always pick up something new and interesting from these talks. Thank you to all and looking forward to the next one!🥳🥳🥳
Thank you so much! This is a series I feel like I will never tire of discussing. There’s so much to explore in these books, and they evoke so many different experiences in different readers. Always a pleasure!
I’m going to start Malazan later this year. None of my friends will be reading it so I’m grateful for the discussion videos you all have!
I’m very excited for you and hope you enjoy the journey! I appreciate your support!
It's fucking brilliant. I hope you like the series.
This was so amazing to watch and really has me excited to get to book 6!
I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on Midnight Tides, Angela! Thank you so much! 😊
Well done, Johanna! Great 'prismatic' video. Those five voices all shared their own perspective very eloquently. And you chaired it expertly.
Thank you so much, Johan! I'm honored hearing that!
50% through Reapers Gale at the moment and really struggling with it. Alot of times i have not a clue whats happening with new characters being introduce but there is something about these books that keep you plodding along.
I had some struggles feeling invested in the some of the new characters introduced in Reaper’s Gale, and my experience shifted as I read on. Hope you find it worthwhile!
Good stuff!
Fwiw, Toll The Hounds was my clear favorite of the series. I love Rake and by extension his people, and that book was a great portrait of an enigmatic character. I loved the philosophy, as well.
Thank you! Toll the Hounds is what Erikson considers the cipher in the series and definitely the go-to book for those who love Rake and the Tiste Andii. I enjoyed examining the themes and discussing it with others.
@@Johanna_reads can you elaborate what you mean by “cipher” in a non-spoiler way?
@@joecoffee7750 I take it to mean the most important, defining book or part in the series.
I love this group conversation! It's all I've got since I don't personally know anyone who would read it. My first read (2017) was like Philip's, just pure reading, no referencing anything else for context. It was like being thrown in the deep end and told to sink or swim, but I loved every minute. My second read (2021) I busted out a notepad for notes and unanswered questions, and like Allen I constantly referred to the maps, characters, and glossary (and wiki too). To my surprise I barely needed to take any notes, things made SO MUCH more sense the second time. Even though I didn't remember all the plot beats, it all came flooding back and I easily felt at home in the world the second time through. My favorite books were the "Darujhistan trilogy" - Gardens of the Moon, Memories of Ice, and Toll the Hounds.
Wow! You made such a strong case for rereading the series. What an amazing experience! Thank you so much for sharing!
@@Johanna_reads I found the Malazan Wiki was very friendly in terms of blocking spoilers from the unwary. It's a good way to refresh yourself on a character mid-read without going too far ahead or revealing too much.
Currently on memories of ice. Absolutely blown away so far. Fully intend to read whole series.
Wonderful! Memories of Ice is such a powerful. I hope you enjoy the journey!
Great video!!! Love the discussion.
Thank you, Michael!
Not fully done yet, but this has been amazing! Great host and so many interesting characters here and takes!
Thank you so much, Brandon! It was fun having this discussion with these amazing friends!
I thank the TH-cam overlords for putting this video on my home page today! I’ve been watching a bit of Malazan videos recently, in an effort to give the series a shot, and I think this discussion gave me the most incentive to do so! Great thoughts from all 5 of you here! I think I’m ready to put Malazan on the TBR for 2023.
Fantastic, Josh! I'm very excited to hear your thoughts on the series. No series has impacted me like this one has, and I hope the discussions are encouraging.
I enjoyed the whole video, but the ending where all you shared who you would say the series is for was what really sold it, because everyone had very different answers and took very different things from the series. I think I'll likely try to recruit some newbie Malazan booktubers to read together so have some noob discussions! It seems like that can be helpful. Thanks again!
@@RedFuryBooks That would be fantastic! I never recommend the series lightly because it is complex, triggering, and not typically what people expect from fantasy, but I actually think there’s a great chance that you and Alex would love it! I’m excited that you’re sold to start it!
It's only been two days since I firmly decided to read it, and I can't stop thinking about it. That looks weird when I type it, but I'm seriously excited to read this series!
I describe this series as “blackbelt level fantasy”. Its good to have a nice base of fantasy books under your belt before diving in. And even then, read Gardens on the Moon twice. It makes sense the second time around
“Blackbelt level fantasy” is a great description for Malazan Book of the Fallen. I’m really looking forward to rereading Gardens of the Moon someday.
Great chat guys, you have me very intrigued to get to the last few books of the series!
Would love to hear your thoughts! Those last 3 are a bit divisive, but I actually really appreciated all the books!
Great video everyone! I am looking forward to starting my Malazan journey this January and am grateful that all of you have Malazan videos on your channel to use as a reference throughout my journey.
Thank you so much, Manzano! I hope you enjoy the series!
Nice. I'm just finishing House of Chains. Love it.
Hooray for another House of Chains fan! Such a powerful book. Thanks!
This was fantastic, I can´t wait to continue my journey, beginning bonehunters next month
Thank you! I loved the Bonehunters! Hope you enjoy it!
The Bonehunters finding the Snake damn near broke me when reading it.
I love the Bonehunters!
I'm just over halfway through Deadhouse Gates. I'm really enjoying the story so far. Currently reading the Chain of Dogs part.
Wow, the Chain of Dogs stuff is powerful in that book! I hope you enjoy the rest of Deadhouse Gates!
I definitely want to read this some day. You did a good job coordinating all of this, looks intimidating to me.
Thank you, Jason! I really appreciate that! I hope you enjoy Malazan if you do pick it up!
I'm just happy this world is getting the attention it deserves. I've been through the series 3 times and each time I get more out of it. I've been ranting for years to anyone who will listen that malazan book of the fallen beats out every other fantasy series.
Wonderful! I’m happy to offer any attention to it. I can only imagine how much you would want that message shared after your 3rd read-through. Cheers!
Only about 30 mins in but really enjoying the chat so far. Really interesting conversation about how much you accept you won't understand everything versus taking detailed notes and trying to make every connection. Looking back I spent so much time writing notes for Memories of Ice and perhaps unsurprisingly it then took me 2/3 months to pick up House of Chains! Generally I try and enjoy the ride and be grateful that I'll get so much more out of a reread.
Thank you for sharing that! I don’t know that I retain the copious amounts of notes I take, but I do think the act of note-taking forces me to absorb things more deeply than if I simply read the books without pause. I’m glad we shared different perspectives on that because I really think there’s a fine balance there, and one set of guidelines does not apply universally.
Cool discussion, and you’ve convinced me to start reading Malazan! I hope I can make it through Gardens on the Moon, it sounds daunting!
Thank you! I hope you don’t feel intimidated by the series and that you enjoy your experience!
It's funny, I know I'm _going_ to read MBotF someday, I've been sold that it's a mandatory read for a year at least - I'm sure I won't do it any time too soon, and yet I can't resist my favorite booktuber's many non-spoiler chats/gushing about it - I love the excitement, and the slow-build hype it's giving me. As if it's *the* peak fantasy achievement, along with Neal Stephenson.
Thank you! I hope you enjoy it if you start! As much as I loved the series, it’s still hard to recommend to everyone because it’s not exactly bingeable, escapist fantasy (through there are cool, crazy things and great humor). But if you’re up for a strange, powerful, introspective fantasy series examining humanity, definitely go for it! And then let me know all your thoughts. 😁
Dang! Now I want to restart Malazan. Planning to pick up again in April! I agree that the Malaztube community is really a great support system while going through the series! It surely did help me. :) Thanks for doing this video , Johanna. Loved it!
Thank you, Angie! So glad you'll be returning to it soon. It's truly a remarkable time to read this series!
Love this discussion. Thank you.
My pleasure! Thank you for watching!
@@Johanna_reads Thank you. I'm halfway through Reapers Gale. It's literally mind blowing stuff.
@@heathmotley9675 It's a great book!
This was a fantastic video. I'm happy to hear Jimmy say, and you all agree that while Erikson works on the themes first, he's never telling you how to feel about something. I could not feel sorry for a certain character in Deadhouse Gates and I was told that I'm not reading the series right - and that irked me a little but I'm happy to know now that its different for everyone and not the same thing is appealing. hell you guys all like different books in the series so there isn't a definite order either
I’m sorry you had that experience! I do believe discussion deepens the experience of reading Malazan, and there is a skillful way to navigate disagreements that not everyone has mastered. The five of us have had very different experiences with this series. I think mine might be closest to Jimmy’s, and I’m hoping to have Philip’s on reread.
@@Johanna_reads indeed. I will be reading Memories of Ice soon. Finished DG last night and the ending was phenomenal. Looking forward to watching more spoiler discussions.
@@Nxrth2001 I’m thrilled that you loved DG! Memories of Ice is powerful in a totally different way, and I hope you enjoy it!
This stream was a pleasant surprise. Will be jumping on Malazan as soon as I finish "The Wheel". Its my second major book series to read, (Along with Second Apocalypse and The Horus Heresy). But it's gonna be a while I have enough books in my TBR to build a small house so...
Thank you so much! I hope you enjoy Malazan when you get to it. I can empathize with having a massive TBR. I need a book ship to swim through mine. Happy reading!
great discussion as always. thank you so much
Thank you so much!
This was a great video collaboration. I'm now more excited about starting the series, hearing more about the military aspects of the story and the multi-faceted themes focused in different books. Though I am now somewhat concerned about encountering multiple characters with the same or similar names, LOL. Over 600 characters, wow.
I loved the military aspects of this series, and Brittany as well my friend, Ola, dislike military stuff but still appreciated Malazan! As deep as the themes go, there are some pretty awesome battles and convergences too. No better worldbuilding in my opinion as well. As far as characters are concerned, he keeps introducing them even into the final book. I'm terrible with names and had to look them up now and then, but I deeply connected to so many of them. They felt like real people to me at times.
@@Johanna_reads New characters in Book 10 of a series might annoy me, LOL, but we'll find out. It's good to know ahead of time to be prepared for it. :)
@@jeremyfee I somehow found myself loving them, but I can understand how that would seem frustrating 😅
My favourite character for the majority of the series was Karsa Orlong but by the end and looking back on the series as a whole, it was Fiddler that became my favourite. And he was a very strong contender since Deadhouse Gates.
Both are wonderful characters! I feel like Fiddler was always relatable and realistic to me. Karsa was fascinating in every scene. Thanks for sharing!
I've just started the series
I'm going to back here when I'm done, I hope to finish it this year
Wonderful! I hope you enjoy your time with each book. Thanks for stopping by!
I'm a couple of hundred pages into Toll the Hounds, not gonna lie I was nervous initially after not loving Reaper's Gale as much as some of the previous entries (still loved it tho) and given the divisive reception to Toll the Hounds but I am loving it so far.
I’m so glad you’re loving Toll the Hounds! There is a lot to love about the book though I struggled personally connecting to some of it. You’re in for a wild ride with the end of that one, but you could probably have guessed that knowing Erikson’s approach to endings. :)
Reading Toll the Hounds now. I remember people saying if you can get through the first book, the others are way different. Made me worried I wouldn't like them because the first book was great. I liked the first few books more since they were more straightforward warfare and less philosophical. It also seemed his writing style changed around the time of Hounds and characters seemed to be written differently. Kruppe, Tehol, and Quick Ben are my favorites.
It is interesting how much the series changes with each book, but it's also fascinating how well they all connect! Thanks for sharing!
I came for the angel and devil memes but stayed for the conversation. I will have to figure out a way to have time to talk with people about this series while I'm reading it. I definitely remember enjoying Stormlight more when I made time to talk about it with people. I still remember some of our RoW conversations.
As far as the conversation about looking at maps and other references, I've been doing that less lately, but I think I should go back to doing that more. I like knowing where I am and relative distances, even if they are super important for the plot. It makes everything feel more real to me.
Thank you! I'm honestly terrible when it comes to looking at maps in real life and in fantasy books! 😅 Yes, Gregory, discussing the books is the way to go! I didn't do that much through my journey, but if you can afford to do mid-book chats as well as second-half book chats, you will probably process the books so much better than going at it alone. Glad you came and stayed! 😁
I have been weaving the Erikson and ICE books together as I read through the series. I echo Philip’s comment that the two series complement each other and provide greater insights into their larger world. Great conversation as usual 😊.
Thank you, Francois! I have to believe that's the case, especially considering how often Philip refers to those books in our MBotF discussions. Pretty certain I have an incomplete experience not yet having read them, but wow, what an experience even with just these 10!
I'll have to jump on this later. I'm on book three currently. Still reeling from...yeah....lol
It's such a great series! We did keep this spoiler-free though I understand wanting to formulate personal thoughts first!
@@Johanna_reads yeah. I've been looking for a community around the books for a while. So I'll definitely subscribe up.
@@j.gregoryhenderson6032 Thank you for subscribing! If you’re into discords, I highly recommend checking out Iskar Jarak’s Unabridged Burner’s discord as well as Allen’s (The Library of Allenxandria) #Malazan section of his discord. There are ongoing and welcoming Malazan discussions there, but any of us who do Malazan videos are happy for comment interactions. Happy reading!
200th Like. What an excellent video!
Honored! Thank you so much!
I think House of Chains struggles because it follows Memories of ice, which is the high mountain of the beginning, perhaps the best of the series. The second highest peak was the Bonehunters and the third Toll the Hounds, imo.
Thanks for sharing! I think I loved House of Chains more than most readers, but I also thought Bonehunters was brilliantly paced, plotted, and powerful!
I initially struggled with hoc. I put it aside for few months around the halfway point. Three weeks ago I started over with it and for whatever reason it clicked this time. Absolutely loved it. So many amazing moments. I’m going to start midnight tides tomorrow!
I think a lot of the plot confusion I’ve had so far (outside of genuinely difficult to grasp characters like Heboric and the Eres’al) is from how little expositional dialogue Erikson uses. It’s become painfully obvious to notice it reading some other series after Malazan but I guess there’s genuine risk of confusion if you take the other extreme haha.
Possibly the case! There is also a lot to keep track of when you’re dealing with such an expanded cast, world, history, etc.!
I loved being confused while reading this story.
😂
I've told several people to read Deadhouse Gates before Gardens, just so they could get into the series a little easier. Then read Gardens of the Moon and Memories of Ice and onwards.
I personally love Gardens of the Moon but it can be such a slog for new readers to get through.
How interesting! At the time of reading it, I found Deadhouse Gates to be slower-paced and harder to get into than Gardens of the Moon. You have a good point that many readers who don't love Gardens might give up before seeing how much more things open up in DG and beyond!
@@Johanna_reads The reason DG despite being somewhat slower paced than GotM can be a simpler starting point is because it doesn't throw you into what seems to be a story that you "missed" the first book of. There is a lot of rapid fire information for new readers to have to digest that doesn't make sense at first because GotM really can feel like a story that's already been half told, and you're missing the context. I guess when I say slog I don't mean slow paced. Gardens isn't slow in comparison to DG, but it's dense with information that hasn't been set up for you to digest because that was Erikson's writing style.
At least that's my opinion about it, other people very likely think I'm wrong lol.
@@tyrantsmisery I appreciate your thoughts on this! I know some have said that it helps to think of Gardens as a prologue, and you know some of the prologues in this series have a very similar feeling. It is a lot to digest, especially as a first time reader!
This series calls to me like a siren song 😊
I love that! Such an enticing song. Hope you enjoy Malazan if you start!
Where was the homey iskar jarak on this stream?
I felt bad not having Iskar Jarak and other amazing people in this discussion. Four was quite the stretch for me as a host, but I am very much a fan of Iskar Jarak and have much appreciation and respect for what he's done for the Malazan community on BookTube!
3rd run-through of both series and STILL putting plot points and characters together
That's amazing! Such a complex and well-orchestrated world.
I started GoTM 4 different times before I finally got through it (still reading it now), and what I would tell folks now is push through to Book 3. Book 3 is where, finally, all the characters gel, and you know (pretty much) who is who. Before that, its such a large character dump, and that was the challenge for me. Never the story. It was just trying to follow the story and all the characters being thrust at you.
I pressed on though I was tempted to reread the first three. I know several who reread the first few books and enjoyed the series all the more for it. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Do yourself a favor and read Esslemont's books too...and Erickson's other Malazan offerings as well.
Good tip!
What is Malazan? Why it’s a series about prehistoric god dogs, gravity-magic wielding cyborg dinosaurs, undead cavemen, psychotic elves, mask wearing samurai and genocidal multi jointed Forkrul Assail that’s what it’s about!!! 😁🧐😁
Haha! Fantastic description 😁
I’m still reading (only on book 8) and all I gotta say is
Tehol gang rise up
Yay, Tehol! You’re getting close! Enjoy!
Malazan is one of those series I want to read but can't start - I can't get through the first book, and I'm a avid fantasy reader who read series like The Wheel of Time and Game of Thrones.
It’s definitely doing it’s own thing. I came into it after reading ASOIAF and a lot of Sanderson. Andy Smith’s video, Malazan: A Postmodern Critique of the Fantasy Genre really helped me understand some of what Erikson was doing differently, but it’s definitely an adjustment and not for every reader or fantasy lover. Best wishes!
I actually think my lack of Fantasy experience was partially why I got into it so easily. I had been far more familiar with classical science fiction stories and structure. But had really only dipped into Tolkien and Sanderson regarding fantasy. (I had read the first asoiaf book and it was not for me)
But my lack of Fantasy experience or expectations I credit with why I enjoyed it so much. And the series has made me reach out to read a LOT more fantasy series since. So it's different for every reader and there's nothing wrong with not being into it :)
1.) I love MBotF... but... its not for everyone. I tell anyone who wants to read it, that if you aren't hooked by the end of Deadhouse, you never will be.
2.) Erikson grew a lot as a writer in the time between Gardens being written, and Deadhouse being written. It's okay to start with book 2 (Deadhouse.)
I don't know who he is. But I would like to apologise to Allen for the Malazan fan jumping at him when he was reading MoI. I'm in a Facebook group that's just awesome with it. If we know it's a first read the community comment is just keep reading. Please. So sorry for that dick. But I do look forward to you rereading Allen.
Fortunately, most of the fan base is very kind and supportive. That sounds like a great group on Facebook. Thanks!
1:23:00 non-spoiler Discussion challenge accepted :D :D
Yay! 🎉
I just enjoyed what I did which was the majority and treated everything else like Mulholland Drive 🤣
That sounds like my approach exactly! 😂
Brittney is mad pretty
Lmao what book does “that dude” show back up
He's in 1,2,4,6, & 9, I think 🤔. I was confused!
Trull Sengar, is the best character in the whole series.. peace..
Loved Trull! Thanks!
@@Johanna_reads No, thank you, lady .. in my environment hardly anyone knows about "Malazan", let alone Trull Sengar .. or Tehol, who has reached such a level of consciousness that he is above all material, above all prejudices and condemnation; to such an extent, in fact, that the ancient god keeps him company, and even pretends to be his servant .. the dialogues between the two are ingenious .. Hats off to the writer.. So, once again, thank you ..
@@GnotkeAugust I totally agree about Tehol and Bugg as well! Cheers!
is it meant to be pronounced Milaarzin?
Honestly, I don’t know. I thought so, but someone commented that I wasn’t pronouncing it correctly. I would trust whatever Philip Chase does! 😅
@@Johanna_reads it was an honest question so thanks for the reply
It's strange that I don't see more people talking about this series. The Wheel of Time seems to be all over these days, despite the fact that, as far as I can tell, at least, it's a pretty average series. But Malazan is the only series I know of that can actually stand up to Tolkien's work in terms of story complexity and lore.
But I do feel the need to point out that you are pronouncing "Malazan" wrong. The accent is on the first syllable. MAL-azan, not ma-LA-zan.
Thank you for the pronunciation correction! I hope I can change that after saying it wrong for so long. So true about how this series is comparable to Tolkien's in complexity and lore. Malazan is certainly worthy of the attention it's been receiving, and I believe it will stand the test of time.
Thats how you pronounce "Malazan"???
I understand it to be pronounced "Muh-la-zuhn." I could still be wrong!
Having read all the Malazan books, by both authors, including the Karkanas duo, my only comment is that Erikson increases his expressions of disappointment with the human race of of which he is part with every book. Every fault,failure, and excess from human history is mapped onto the characters and races of his stories and repeated ad nauseam. These are not stories with a moral aspect, they are (at least the later books are) moral treatises draped over stories which struggle to be heard. The latest post MBotF book suffers from the same faults although the telling is enlivened by the characters this time.
That’s an interesting take! I haven’t read the other books in the Malazan world yet. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts!