I feel like your comment is extreamly stupid. What he do? He simply climbed up like every other climber, here he just had the tools to drill it in and then used it like every other climber Just as "fearless" as every other climber that has climbed that.
Funnily enough, a fall from a few meters above the anchor (resulting in a ~5m fall), can be quite chill if caught well by the belayer. In sport climbing falling is super common (like tens of times per day), in trad climbing (the type in the video), falling is more dangerous because you can never fully trust the gear.
I like the ease of use of those clippable anchors but you have to know you COULD mess up and unclip yourself if you climb past the anchor. Ive heard of this happening once or twice.
@@ninjabearsinc2 These anchors can only hold weight that pulls downward. When they get pulled upward (e.g. from you climbing past them) they get pulled out of the cracks they're in.
@ninjabearsinc2 I think there's some confusion with terms in this comment thread. A cam being placed while climbing can't hold much upwards force - it needs to hold downwards load in a fall, and the orientation means it can't hold much upwards pull. Explanation of what the original commenter was probably going for: The hooks on the end of the anchor chains, called Mussy hooks, have a spring gate closure that's really easy to clip a rope into - it's got that pointed flare to catch on. If you're *already* clipped into the hooks and climb up past the anchor chains, you're in a position where if you fall, downclimb, etc, you could snag the hook and re-clip your rope into it. It'll form the bight and the rope can pull out, dropping you all the way down. Big concern if, say, you just finished cleaning the route and the hooks are your only connection
Worth a note: Please only use the Mussy Hooks for getting lowered off-unless specifically told otherwise by the area maintainers. One should normally supply their own toprope anchor & clip it into the chains. (This isn't because the poster did anything wrong, it is a general reminder.)
This was so difficult to watch solely because of acrophobia - I see any height as a threat to my survival - I’ve done enough messing with death to know I’m not cut out for rock climbing. I’d psych myself out the first time and end up making a fatal error. So I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for anyone who does this, let alone getting video of it! So cheers lol
Super interesting, having permanent anchors on trad climbs is really rare in the UK, we almost exclusively top out and then build a belay with rope, slings, nuts, hexes, offsets and sometimes cams.
Man, can't do it. 180mph on the street on two wheels, 6 months, 6 days a week, 12hr days on S1000RR in Los Angeles area doing delivery's. Almost lost a foot and a hand, but this...just can't do it, climbing walls I was like a spider, but not this. Well done, and to each his own. Cool sport/hobby.
If you're climbing multi pitch. The belayer/ second climber will strip the route. Ideally they then become the lead climber for the next pitch, otherwise they have to transfer back all the gear to the lead climber and reverse the rope. 🧗⛏️
I’ve done probably over 1000 pitches of trad climbing, and never have I lowered off a fixed anchor to retrieve gear, I’ve only ever done that sport climbing!
yeah, in most places it's bad form because running a weighted rope through those fixed biners wears them down. you'd pull the rope to the midpoint and rap down. however, some areas are so well maintained that they replace these every year or two so lowering through them is considered OK because it's safer to clean while being lowered than doing it on rappel.
@@climbingsnowboarder here in the UK, I’ve abseiled off a few fixed chains here and there which are just starting to creep in, but not a bolted anchor like this one, only for sport. Even abseil chains are rare, due to our strong, but sometimes illogical ethics. Also all of our trad routes have top outs, but for the style of rock in Utah, bolted lower offs seem perfect sense
And to anyone wondering about things like multipitch or hike down type climbs, usually your partner climbs up after you and collects the equipment on the way while you belay them from the top.
You see those carribeaners at the top? Those aren’t always there. Instead you have to temporarily clip your harness into the anchors directly and untie and thread the rope through the anchors before tying back in and lowering.
Like usually it’s the I bolt? I saw a solo lead guy do this, once he got to the top he pulled himself close enough to the anchor and caribeenered onto it twice pull his rope all the way up then tied back in after looping through, his spot had the chains tho . Prob the sketchiest part of rock climbing to me
when i go climbing my friends always ask that question and i just have to show them, they are horrified for my life because it’s not everyday they see their friend climb a cliff
Back when I was doing training for this we were taught to never ever trust someone else's bolts in the stone. How do you feel about that and what makes that last step different
I do sport climbing (without cams, only using prepared bolts) and I have question: are there any routes without bolts on top. What are you doing in this case?
So some trad routes don’t have any bolts at the top and they either are a walk off. Like a trail down to the bottom or they have a tree or a big block that you could tie webbing around to rappel off of to get back down.
@@climbingsnowboarderThat just loops back to the original question though. For a "walk off" climb, if you're not coming back down the way you went up, how do you collect your cams?
Please use your own gear to belay or lower off of. Rappel off chains to clean the anchor of your own gear. Friction on any metal to rope causes more replacement of anchors, which is a volunteer service by organizations like Action Fund.
Mussy hooks are placed specifically for this purpose, they are much beefier and can take significantly more wear. They prevent a lot of accidents due to anchor cleaning errors and are becoming the standard when anchors are placed or replaced. If they aren't mussy hooks, then you would be correct.
@@anthonypisano6023 it's not about being correct. It is about saving money and lives. Even better built equipment can last longer without wear being done on the equipment. Ropes expire due to degradation internally, but I have done the studies and even the ceramic coating, anodized aluminum is a ceramic coating wears away with rope loaded on a hook of any kind. So save the gear that was placed for you and clean the anchor with a rappel whenever possible. If you have to bail, use it the safest way possible.
@Spatial_Computer it is about being correct, and about saving lives. Mussy hooks are placed for the purpose of the last person in your party lowering off. This is specifically to save lives via avoidance of climbing accidents. I've cleaned and rapped thousands of times, and was hesitant to embrace this when mussy hooks are present. However, I was educated by people who are more knowledgeable about route and area development. It is the standard and their specific intended purpose (specifically TO save lives). Feel free to disagree, but you're going against general consensus of educated people who develop our climbing areas. I concede that certain areas gave different "ethics" but where I have climbed, Red River Gorge, Northern California, Eastern Tennessee where mussy hooks are present, lowering is absolutely acceptable and preferred.
@@anthonypisano6023 I'm not against anyone. I'm a materials Engineer that did a study on the friction and wear of climbing gear. There aren't much studies out there associated with the topic. My results found the rope generating friction under load of less than a climbers weight will wear the metal and make use of the metal components dangerous. None of what you are saying is wrong, but failure only occurs on any metal gear placed in rocks for the purpose of rock climbing when loaded friction is applied. Using it as a lowering anchor is one of those times. However, reducing the time of use only when cleaning the route certainly is better. It can be argued safer than Rappelling down, due to human error being the most cause of climbing incidents.
This is very rare expect on certain types of rock and certain scenarios. Most of the world climbs to the top and the second follows, cleaning the gear. Sport climbs have bolts al the way and anchors at the top. Trad climbing to top anchors is niche as hell.
I trust them fully. These are typically 5” stainless that can last 20+ years and they’ll get pulled and replaced with glue ins in the same hole giving 50 years of use out of a single hole!
Late to the video, would you go some place where you would have to find another way done where you can’t get your stuff back? Like those mountains/cliffs they show in videos that seem to be out in the middle of nowhere? Second question, how did they drill into the rock face? I would think even with a drill it would take both hands and some weight on the drill? Is there an anchor point at the summit?
Answer to your first question is that in some cases, they are a walk-off. That means you climb to the top of the "mountain" and then walk off the other side. In other cases, there will be a tree or something with slings wrapped around it (this is called tat, I don't know why) and you thread your rope through and rappel from there. These are usually provided by the community over time, and if you aren't confident that the old weathered gear will hold, you add your own to the pile. Oftentimes there will be multiple routes up a face, and they all share a single descent anchor. (This can be either a set of bolts or a tat tree) To answer your second question, when bolting a route, you usually rig a top rope to the top, And then use ascenders / jumars to work out the moves and placements of the belays/bolts, giving you a secure stance to drill everything in. Edit: you can also climb a route on trad, and then use that gear to hold you in place will you drill the bolts.
what fearless bastard drilled the anchors to the wall
A fella with skill and balls of steel
I feel like your comment is extreamly stupid.
What he do?
He simply climbed up like every other climber, here he just had the tools to drill it in and then used it like every other climber
Just as "fearless" as every other climber that has climbed that.
Somebody who either climbed up with gear exactly the way they did, or someone who was lowered down from the top.
@@jasminecollins897 bungee jump down with drill or hanging from a
basket
Same guy who caused the cracks in the rock, presumably
Damm that looks like a fun climb
Blue sun a classic for sure
Does not look fun 😭 yall enjoy crack?
They dont keep you from getting hurt, they hurt you to keep you from dying
They also keep you from getting hurt depending on how far the fall is.
Funnily enough, a fall from a few meters above the anchor (resulting in a ~5m fall), can be quite chill if caught well by the belayer. In sport climbing falling is super common (like tens of times per day), in trad climbing (the type in the video), falling is more dangerous because you can never fully trust the gear.
That’s actually not true. I’ve taken 30 foot falls. it’s not painful in anyway. The rope stretch when they catch you.
What the fuck kind of rope are you using, I've fallen 5+ meters without any significant pain
@@Lazerbadger2did you get a ruler and measure ? More like 3 feet lmao
I like the ease of use of those clippable anchors but you have to know you COULD mess up and unclip yourself if you climb past the anchor. Ive heard of this happening once or twice.
totally you have to be extra careful using them
Could you explain what you mean? Having trouble visualising it
@@ninjabearsinc2 These anchors can only hold weight that pulls downward. When they get pulled upward (e.g. from you climbing past them) they get pulled out of the cracks they're in.
@@the_verTigO thanks, so essentially you need to place a new one as soon as you get level to the last one?
@ninjabearsinc2 I think there's some confusion with terms in this comment thread.
A cam being placed while climbing can't hold much upwards force - it needs to hold downwards load in a fall, and the orientation means it can't hold much upwards pull.
Explanation of what the original commenter was probably going for: The hooks on the end of the anchor chains, called Mussy hooks, have a spring gate closure that's really easy to clip a rope into - it's got that pointed flare to catch on. If you're *already* clipped into the hooks and climb up past the anchor chains, you're in a position where if you fall, downclimb, etc, you could snag the hook and re-clip your rope into it. It'll form the bight and the rope can pull out, dropping you all the way down. Big concern if, say, you just finished cleaning the route and the hooks are your only connection
Fresh prince of belayer
😂 that’s great
@@climbingsnowboarder I’m glad you like it! Delete this comment and pretend you came up with it 😂
🤣😅 I try though I was the only one who thought that 😂😂
Oh my god that’s so fucking great I low key hate that I don’t know you
Good thing those permanent anchors spontaneously develop on good climbing faces!
😂
Worth a note: Please only use the Mussy Hooks for getting lowered off-unless specifically told otherwise by the area maintainers. One should normally supply their own toprope anchor & clip it into the chains.
(This isn't because the poster did anything wrong, it is a general reminder.)
Yup please don't die guys.
Valid point!
On belay. Belay on. Climbing. Climb
That starting routine have always stuck with me since high school
If u guys r real good and been climbing with each other for years u don't even have to talk lol
This was so difficult to watch solely because of acrophobia - I see any height as a threat to my survival - I’ve done enough messing with death to know I’m not cut out for rock climbing. I’d psych myself out the first time and end up making a fatal error. So I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for anyone who does this, let alone getting video of it! So cheers lol
I have quite literally wondered about this for years. Thank you!
Thank you for this video.
I have wondered about this for years, thank you
Super interesting, having permanent anchors on trad climbs is really rare in the UK, we almost exclusively top out and then build a belay with rope, slings, nuts, hexes, offsets and sometimes cams.
I’ve heard UK climbing is gnarly!
Thank you. I have always wondered how this worked.
That was informative and answered a question that I’ve always had.
@@scottperine8027 🍻
Omg wow you're such a good climber
Man, can't do it. 180mph on the street on two wheels, 6 months, 6 days a week, 12hr days on S1000RR in Los Angeles area doing delivery's. Almost lost a foot and a hand, but this...just can't do it, climbing walls I was like a spider, but not this.
Well done, and to each his own. Cool sport/hobby.
Gets hand stuck: *grabs knife*
If you're climbing multi pitch. The belayer/ second climber will strip the route. Ideally they then become the lead climber for the next pitch, otherwise they have to transfer back all the gear to the lead climber and reverse the rope. 🧗⛏️
Pls also make a 2nd part explaining to people the multi-pitch method
SUCH A GREAT QUESTION, SO GREAT, SOOOOOOOO GREAAAAAAT!!!!!!
Bro is rawdogging Blue Sun without tape gloves
Theres also nuts (dont be dirty rn) if you get high enough you use them
Thanks Bel Air, you were a good show!
Best part about cams... they do NOT damage the rock. Second, typically easier to remove than chocks.
I’ve always wanted to know things like this Ty
I have always wondered. Thanks.
I’ve done probably over 1000 pitches of trad climbing, and never have I lowered off a fixed anchor to retrieve gear, I’ve only ever done that sport climbing!
yeah, in most places it's bad form because running a weighted rope through those fixed biners wears them down. you'd pull the rope to the midpoint and rap down.
however, some areas are so well maintained that they replace these every year or two so lowering through them is considered OK because it's safer to clean while being lowered than doing it on rappel.
This is one of those rare places!
Wild! here in Utah because of the amount of traffic tons of trad routes have bolted anchors.
@@climbingsnowboarder here in the UK, I’ve abseiled off a few fixed chains here and there which are just starting to creep in, but not a bolted anchor like this one, only for sport. Even abseil chains are rare, due to our strong, but sometimes illogical ethics. Also all of our trad routes have top outs, but for the style of rock in Utah, bolted lower offs seem perfect sense
Dam that wall u climbing is *_smooth_*
@@UnknownEntityMXES it’s so crazy people don’t realize there is nothing to grab onto usually just jamming and twisting body parts into the crack!
And to anyone wondering about things like multipitch or hike down type climbs, usually your partner climbs up after you and collects the equipment on the way while you belay them from the top.
Thanks for this information
Oh man I love MGSV
Great explanation I am asked this all the time and I’ll send this everyone who asks me
Thx!
So much trust put in gear it is crazy
So much money spent on gear because nobody can trust the cheap ones
The faith in the "permanent anchors" at the top. Gahh
❤🎉
the anchor is safe.....the problem is the rock, infact I only go in place that I know someone do maintenance
You see those carribeaners at the top? Those aren’t always there. Instead you have to temporarily clip your harness into the anchors directly and untie and thread the rope through the anchors before tying back in and lowering.
Like usually it’s the I bolt? I saw a solo lead guy do this, once he got to the top he pulled himself close enough to the anchor and caribeenered onto it twice pull his rope all the way up then tied back in after looping through, his spot had the chains tho . Prob the sketchiest part of rock climbing to me
If there are rings instead of clip anchors, you don't have to untie. You can feed a bite through the loops and go from there
@@lachepro6860 that’s correct! It’s been nice so many routes down here are using muzzys now!
What's the point of that? Are they afraid that the carabiners will go bad?
@@MrCmon113they will crack and break over time
Bro probably top roped through the mussies with his 800 friends. Class creek top rope domination
when i go climbing my friends always ask that question and i just have to show them, they are horrified for my life because it’s not everyday they see their friend climb a cliff
This reminds me of that one climb in Jusant
Stay safe. God bless
When the video started to speed up my heart skipped a beat 😂😅
I love rock climbing
And if it’s a route whoever is below pick up the gear as you ascend. I don’t know about solo though cause I haven’t done that
How convenient that Mother Nature creates permanent steel anchors at the top of every mountain for climbers!
It should be lead climbing method. First one sets last one picks up. It's how you do a multi pitch climb
Yeah, totally trash video and confusing explanation. But 53K of idiots liked it.
Ok, then they're both stuck at the anchor, lol.
Thanks i always wondered that!
I used to free climb and not having the chance of death makes this basically a jog.
The simple things, teamwork helps
What if the cam breaks???
Well, that’s pretty cool
What are other safety measures you can take when going on a climb?
I got a cramp watching this
I would never I have the fear of heights
You wont typically find those anchors in the UK. You either have to leave some tatt behind or find something natural to rappell from.
Those cams have a surprising amount of grip - how do they stay so firmly in the crack, while still being easily removable?
That’s genius
Who ensures and checks the pernament anchors are still safe to use.
Back when I was doing training for this we were taught to never ever trust someone else's bolts in the stone.
How do you feel about that and what makes that last step different
@@BrokenAtari good question I’ll have to do a video reply
They dont keep you from getting hurt. Taking a whipper or blowing some pro can definitely hurt. Hopefully gear keeps us from getting dead.
@@thisisgettingold if you’re 😢 climbing you’re doing something seriously wrong.
Yeah good set of 40 stairs scares the s*** out of me. I could not imagine getting on a rock face😅😅😅😅😅
Wow
When you reach the top you swan dive and snatch all your gear out by the time you decend to the floor safely
So, I think the original question was, what if there isn't a magical permanent anchor conveniently up top? 🤔
I usually do bouldering and indoor climbing. I am wondering what gear and how to find places like this.
google
How do set a permanent anchor?
I do sport climbing (without cams, only using prepared bolts) and I have question: are there any routes without bolts on top. What are you doing in this case?
So some trad routes don’t have any bolts at the top and they either are a walk off. Like a trail down to the bottom or they have a tree or a big block that you could tie webbing around to rappel off of to get back down.
@@climbingsnowboarderThat just loops back to the original question though. For a "walk off" climb, if you're not coming back down the way you went up, how do you collect your cams?
@larsreed7116 The belayer climbs up as well and collects them on the way up. Then both walk out together with all your gear.
Yup what Joe said
@@joe.odonovan same as multi pitch climbing technique
Ok, but what if you DON'T HAVE a permanent anchor?
I've always wondered after a big clime what's the recovery time?
So who put the permanent anchors up there and how? I can only imagine having to do the drilling etc at height.
Please use your own gear to belay or lower off of. Rappel off chains to clean the anchor of your own gear. Friction on any metal to rope causes more replacement of anchors, which is a volunteer service by organizations like Action Fund.
Mussy hooks are placed specifically for this purpose, they are much beefier and can take significantly more wear. They prevent a lot of accidents due to anchor cleaning errors and are becoming the standard when anchors are placed or replaced. If they aren't mussy hooks, then you would be correct.
@@anthonypisano6023 it's not about being correct. It is about saving money and lives. Even better built equipment can last longer without wear being done on the equipment. Ropes expire due to degradation internally, but I have done the studies and even the ceramic coating, anodized aluminum is a ceramic coating wears away with rope loaded on a hook of any kind. So save the gear that was placed for you and clean the anchor with a rappel whenever possible. If you have to bail, use it the safest way possible.
@Spatial_Computer it is about being correct, and about saving lives. Mussy hooks are placed for the purpose of the last person in your party lowering off. This is specifically to save lives via avoidance of climbing accidents. I've cleaned and rapped thousands of times, and was hesitant to embrace this when mussy hooks are present. However, I was educated by people who are more knowledgeable about route and area development. It is the standard and their specific intended purpose (specifically TO save lives).
Feel free to disagree, but you're going against general consensus of educated people who develop our climbing areas.
I concede that certain areas gave different "ethics" but where I have climbed, Red River Gorge, Northern California, Eastern Tennessee where mussy hooks are present, lowering is absolutely acceptable and preferred.
@@anthonypisano6023 I'm not against anyone. I'm a materials Engineer that did a study on the friction and wear of climbing gear. There aren't much studies out there associated with the topic. My results found the rope generating friction under load of less than a climbers weight will wear the metal and make use of the metal components dangerous. None of what you are saying is wrong, but failure only occurs on any metal gear placed in rocks for the purpose of rock climbing when loaded friction is applied. Using it as a lowering anchor is one of those times. However, reducing the time of use only when cleaning the route certainly is better. It can be argued safer than Rappelling down, due to human error being the most cause of climbing incidents.
There are so many more ascent clips out there tht ppl think every climber is freebirdin' off the cliffs 😂
Who is responsible for maintaining the permanent anchors? Do they get checked and replaced from time to time?
But what happenes if there is no permanent anchors to hook into?
This is very rare expect on certain types of rock and certain scenarios. Most of the world climbs to the top and the second follows, cleaning the gear. Sport climbs have bolts al the way and anchors at the top. Trad climbing to top anchors is niche as hell.
What if there's no permanent anchor at the top?
What do you do if you cant reach the top where the permanent anker is?
What if there are no permanent anchors?
Guy who installs the permanent anchors 🗿
You should rap off fixed anchors if possible, lowering wears a groove in them.
I live in Utah😮
But who/how did they put that chain in the top for you to hook into?
Mussy hooks at the top! Love to see that
At first i was like "but how do you get the rope back from the permanent hooks?" Then i remembered ropes have ends 😅
what if there is no permanent anchors ?
Fully removable. 😂
If placed/used properly.
I have foung many many "in situ" cams 😂
I have enough arthritis I probably have extra grip.... 😂
And what if you have to make you own anchor at the top.
And remember, don't bite the hand that lowers you😂😂😂
Imagine you're hiking or driving nearby and you just see some dude with a milwaukee hammer drill putting chains anchors in on a cliff edge lmao
Raw dogging the crack is crazy
I'm much more of an indoor-rock-climbing kinda guy. This just looks like too much risk of injury.
Not to mention requiring more time and equipment.
Dood say belayer like he’s the fresh prince. Probably goes home and cooks dinner in his meecrowavay
Or, you climb in pairs with the sweep cleaning the hardware as you ascend.
So you fully trust that "permanent" anchor?.. how long does it last and is it just 3" bolts or 3' bolts with epoxy
I trust them fully. These are typically 5” stainless that can last 20+ years and they’ll get pulled and replaced with glue ins in the same hole giving 50 years of use out of a single hole!
I'd be too scared of falling to climb 😔
Late to the video, would you go some place where you would have to find another way done where you can’t get your stuff back? Like those mountains/cliffs they show in videos that seem to be out in the middle of nowhere?
Second question, how did they drill into the rock face? I would think even with a drill it would take both hands and some weight on the drill? Is there an anchor point at the summit?
Answer to your first question is that in some cases, they are a walk-off. That means you climb to the top of the "mountain" and then walk off the other side. In other cases, there will be a tree or something with slings wrapped around it (this is called tat, I don't know why) and you thread your rope through and rappel from there. These are usually provided by the community over time, and if you aren't confident that the old weathered gear will hold, you add your own to the pile. Oftentimes there will be multiple routes up a face, and they all share a single descent anchor. (This can be either a set of bolts or a tat tree)
To answer your second question, when bolting a route, you usually rig a top rope to the top, And then use ascenders / jumars to work out the moves and placements of the belays/bolts, giving you a secure stance to drill everything in.
Edit: you can also climb a route on trad, and then use that gear to hold you in place will you drill the bolts.
They’d probably use a cordless hammer drill
didnt know that - i thought you need to climb down the same tough way but in other direction.
So how they get it back if they climb Patagonia 2000m rock? Do you have to go in team and the second guy collects them?
how do u do it when u repel?
How do you let the bayer know when your like 2000 ft up
Walkie talkies
The guy that put those permanente anchors must have pretty strong arms to pull heavy set of steel balls
because he cant use cams or skyhooks to secure himself there? rethink.