This video and all the wisdom it contains is remarkable! Your guidance through such non-technical principles, like considering costs, is so valuable! Thank you!
Love it!! What Are Those specific limitations for SharePoint you mentioned in the beginning? I heard that SharePoint security goes out the window after like 10k entries but don’t know if that is actually true.. are there any other points?
Sorry for the late response here, glad you liked the video! The limitations that you hit when using SharePoint as your backend for a Canvas App are: - Row level security is only possible / applicable to the original creator of an item (see SharePoint: Item Level Permissions)... i.e. ownership cannot be "reassigned". - You can break permission inheritance on your list or library, and your Canvas App will honor this, but this requires management of permissions at an item level through the SharePoint UI and has all sorts of knock on affects that make supporting this type of permissions scheme very painful. It will be a mess! - Canvas Apps themselves have a 2000 item row limit when retrieving data from a data source. This is not a SharePoint limit, but rather a Canvas App limit. This makes dealing with large datasets challenging in a Canvas App world. - SharePoint as a data source is "not very delegable". This means you cannot apply Filter, Sort, IsBlank, StartsWith functions on your SharePoint data source and expect the logic to be applied at the data source level. This is particularly problematic when trying to apply these functions on SharePoint system fields like Identifier, Name, Path, ContentType, etc. So, when you combine this limitation with the Canvas App 2k rows limit, and your SharePoint list has more than 2k rows, you have to do extra special things to retrieve ALL rows into your Canvas App, and then apply your filters, sorts, etc. because SharePoint won't apply those filters across ALL rows first and then give you a complete result set. Here's a link for the SP delegation documentation... learn.microsoft.com/en-us/connectors/sharepointonline/#power-apps-delegable-functions-and-operations-for-sharepoint
Thanks a lot, excellent video. The $260K only factors developer salaries. If we take into consideration salaries of the ops team, sec team, hosting price, hosting machines licensing price (or cloud licensing), Enterprise Database licensing, features like Built in security, access control, no need for API development, integration through virtual tables and many other costs related needs the organization must take into consideration. The licensing cost of this tool is well worth the investment.
Thank you! I have an E5 account and an F3 (front-line worker) account. Four days ago, I added a Power Apps Premium license and assigned it to the F3 account. However, I still don't see the Dataverse icon atop "Tables" in the left-hand menu of my F3 Power Apps window. Is there any administration or setup that I have to do? Microsoft is extremely slow in getting back to me about it.
When using your F3 account in Power Apps, are you accessing a Power Apps environment that has Dataverse enabled / installed? If Dataverse is not enabled in that environment, there will be no tables. In order to use Dataverse you first need to provision a Dataverse enabled environment. You can do this from the Power Platform Admin Center, provided your account has the Power Platform Admin Role. Also wondering, are you trying to develop a Dataverse app using a front line worker persona? It seems like you would develop the app with a developer account (maybe your E5 license) and then you'd simply share that app with your F3 enabled account so they can use the app, in which case there's no need or expectation that they would be interacting with Dataverse tables directly.
@@BulbDigital I am the only user, the default environment has Dataverse enabled, but not managed, and my F3 account has the admin and app maker roles as well. I'll try moving the Power Apps Premium license to the E5 account.
Whoa now! We would not recommend modifying Dataverse in the Default environment. You only get one Default environment for your organization and this is where all of the "personal" automation takes place. Making changes here might adversely affect many of the out-of-the-box functionality as it pertains to M365 and dependencies on the Default environment. For example, all of the standard Approvals that you may run in Teams, or from SharePoint are all managed within the Default environment within built-in Dataverse tables. The good news is when you stand up a separate / dedicated Dataverse enabled environment, you get all of those baseline tables that you can build on top of.
Thanks for the video.
I have being battling this cost in my head for a while now.
thank you so much for picking up on this topic. this part 07:14 hits home hard. i'm currently going through this.
Happy to help! Glad you found it useful, best of luck with everything - feel free to reach out if you need help!
This video and all the wisdom it contains is remarkable! Your guidance through such non-technical principles, like considering costs, is so valuable! Thank you!
Thanks so much, glad we could help!
Excellent video
Thank you very much!
Love it!! What Are Those specific limitations for SharePoint you mentioned in the beginning? I heard that SharePoint security goes out the window after like 10k entries but don’t know if that is actually true.. are there any other points?
Sorry for the late response here, glad you liked the video!
The limitations that you hit when using SharePoint as your backend for a Canvas App are:
- Row level security is only possible / applicable to the original creator of an item (see SharePoint: Item Level Permissions)... i.e. ownership cannot be "reassigned".
- You can break permission inheritance on your list or library, and your Canvas App will honor this, but this requires management of permissions at an item level through the SharePoint UI and has all sorts of knock on affects that make supporting this type of permissions scheme very painful. It will be a mess!
- Canvas Apps themselves have a 2000 item row limit when retrieving data from a data source. This is not a SharePoint limit, but rather a Canvas App limit. This makes dealing with large datasets challenging in a Canvas App world.
- SharePoint as a data source is "not very delegable". This means you cannot apply Filter, Sort, IsBlank, StartsWith functions on your SharePoint data source and expect the logic to be applied at the data source level. This is particularly problematic when trying to apply these functions on SharePoint system fields like Identifier, Name, Path, ContentType, etc. So, when you combine this limitation with the Canvas App 2k rows limit, and your SharePoint list has more than 2k rows, you have to do extra special things to retrieve ALL rows into your Canvas App, and then apply your filters, sorts, etc. because SharePoint won't apply those filters across ALL rows first and then give you a complete result set. Here's a link for the SP delegation documentation... learn.microsoft.com/en-us/connectors/sharepointonline/#power-apps-delegable-functions-and-operations-for-sharepoint
Thanks a lot, excellent video. The $260K only factors developer salaries. If we take into consideration salaries of the ops team, sec team, hosting price, hosting machines licensing price (or cloud licensing), Enterprise Database licensing, features like Built in security, access control, no need for API development, integration through virtual tables and many other costs related needs the organization must take into consideration. The licensing cost of this tool is well worth the investment.
Yes! Those things spider-web for sure and add up quickly. Glad you enjoyed the video.
Thank you! I have an E5 account and an F3 (front-line worker) account. Four days ago, I added a Power Apps Premium license and assigned it to the F3 account. However, I still don't see the Dataverse icon atop "Tables" in the left-hand menu of my F3 Power Apps window. Is there any administration or setup that I have to do? Microsoft is extremely slow in getting back to me about it.
When using your F3 account in Power Apps, are you accessing a Power Apps environment that has Dataverse enabled / installed? If Dataverse is not enabled in that environment, there will be no tables.
In order to use Dataverse you first need to provision a Dataverse enabled environment. You can do this from the Power Platform Admin Center, provided your account has the Power Platform Admin Role.
Also wondering, are you trying to develop a Dataverse app using a front line worker persona? It seems like you would develop the app with a developer account (maybe your E5 license) and then you'd simply share that app with your F3 enabled account so they can use the app, in which case there's no need or expectation that they would be interacting with Dataverse tables directly.
@@BulbDigital I am the only user, the default environment has Dataverse enabled, but not managed, and my F3 account has the admin and app maker roles as well. I'll try moving the Power Apps Premium license to the E5 account.
Whoa now! We would not recommend modifying Dataverse in the Default environment. You only get one Default environment for your organization and this is where all of the "personal" automation takes place. Making changes here might adversely affect many of the out-of-the-box functionality as it pertains to M365 and dependencies on the Default environment. For example, all of the standard Approvals that you may run in Teams, or from SharePoint are all managed within the Default environment within built-in Dataverse tables.
The good news is when you stand up a separate / dedicated Dataverse enabled environment, you get all of those baseline tables that you can build on top of.
@@BulbDigital thank you!