I was sitting on the edge of my seat waiting in hope that what you said at 9:50 was going to be a reality, not just a hope!!! that little box is a swiss army knife or the glue that will allow lots of bits to come together. using my 4k cameras and my atme mini pro is going to be so much more epic with a few of these. Amazing!!!
Oh this will come in very handy. I can have four or five of these next to my smart Videohub and not only will they convert PCs/HMDI cameras coming in, I can use it to send other feeds back out to various monitors. Fingers-crossed they are as reliable as their predecessors.
It isn’t in the manual. That’s why I was surprised when it did. I checked on multiple combinations of monitors and video sources, and it most definitely does down-convert to HD with a UHD source when a monitor isn’t capable of displaying UHD.
Hi Doug, very interesting these new 12G mini Converters .. like you mentioned the USB-C for power must be disconected it terms of configuration wit a Computer .. I solved this particular Problem wit a Powered 7-Port USB Hub (Lindy 7 Port USB 3.0 Hub) who has enough Power to seve it to 7 Converters .. a side effect is, it can also conneted to a Computer at the same time .. I build this in my Boxed Production Studio that was inspired by your build. I use a Neutrik NA USB-3-B (flipped the insert 180°) .. now I'm able to connect the Hub via a standard USB-A to USB-B 3.0 Cable to configure the attached Micro Converter inside the Box ..
Yeah, I had thought of that before the video but failed to mention it. But that's one of the reasons I mentioned renaming the converters so you know which is which when you have multiple connected with a USB hub.
Thank you for this video. Selling my hdmi-sdi 3g converters now and ordering bidirectional ones. Your excellent tip saves me a splitter at each camera what I currently use to have an external monitor at the camera and a sdi out at the same time :) Less is better :)
Hello, im so glad i found your channel to be honest!!!! Quick question can i apply the lut on HDMI in to HDMI out signal? and sdi in to sdi out? or the signals have to cross? thank you :)
Maybe this is a stupid question but... can you color correct the output(s ) of this bidirectional converter, though the ATEM control software, when connected in SDI or HDMI, as if it would be a kind of "virtual camera" ?
No. You have to create a .cube file containing the LUT. Resolve will do this, and the controls are similar, but ultimately it does have to be converted to a .cube file so it can be uploaded into the converter.
Last time I checked, they said this couldn't convert in both directions at the same time. Because of that, I ended up buying the Decimator Design 12G-CROSS in the end which also includes a built-in scaler.
Their website and product manual make it pretty clear that it will convert in both directions simultaneously. And clearly from the demonstration here it certainly does. The 12G-Cross is a great product, though. I have several and love them. But I only use them when I need scalers/frame rate converters.
Great video. Blackmagic does not have anything to this level of detail. I have a question I hope you can help me with. I was trying to understand the chaining function when I found your videos. I'm going from a Windows PC using Propresenter and I would like to send my presentation to two 1080P monitors. If I connect the HDMI out of the PC to the first Micro Converter IN port. Then, from the first Micro Converter, HDMI OUT to my fist monitor. Then, from the first Micro Converter SDI OUT to a second Micro Converter SDI IN. Then, from the second Micro Converter HDMI OUT to my second monitor. Does this sound correct, and should it work? Thank you!
Thank you for the video! Really well done! Do you know if Blackmagic has any Converter, which can convert 4K SDI to 1080p SDI? I know the Decimator, but I'd like to use BMD products. Currently I am doing it with two converters: Teranex SDI to HDMI (4K to 1080p) and then BiDirectional 3G HDMI to SDI... Is there a better way with BMD devices?
If you are interested in buying a hyperdeck then HD+ converts 2160p30 (max) to 1080p from sdi in and hdmi in to sdi mon out (toggle between osd and clean output)
Hi Doug. Thanks a lot for this lesson! I'm dealing with an issue that my Hollyland Pyro H 4K transmitter that can't lock his signal into my ATEM Studio Production 4K HDMI input. All resolutions, frame rates and firmware updates are set. The only condition I got this worked was connecting this signal through a Atomos Ninja V and than ATEM was able to lock. Now I'm hoping I can lock Pyro's signal into my ATEM SDI input by puting trhough this BiDirectional 12G converter to SDI before ATEM. Would you have some explanation for this matter and do you think it's going to work out? Greetings from Brazil!
Most likely the Pyro is not outputting the resolution and frame rate that you want it to, so the ATEM doesn't recognize the signal. You could try an EDID emulator to force it to a specific resolution/frame rate, or a converter like a Decimator 12G-CROSS, to force the right format.
Hi Doug, thanks for the informative review. I have an output monitor that will only receive a 60hz signal. so far the only way I have found to get it to work is to set my ATEM to 60fps. But I want to record in 25fps. Will this device enable me to do both?
Hey Doug, thanks for the demo. Question: Any advantage graphics wise running laptop at 4k with a high resolution slides into these as it downscales the 4k to 1080 and gives you a more detailed slide image ? thinking of using in this regard for adding detail to slides are used in virtual presentations...or as a way to get 4k content into my HD switcher.
There wouldn't be a visual advantage using this particular converter -- it is designed to give a "quick and dirty" conversion rather than a high quality conversion, and does so by basically throwing away 3 out of 4 pixels, which results in a lower quality image than you'd get with native 1080p. Higher quality conversions are available with other hardware, like the Teranex AV/Express products, but it isn't likely to look any better than a native 1080p output. One thing you can do to improve the appearance of text on slides would be to turn off subpixel rendering. I have a video on that here: th-cam.com/video/tfni1annzyc/w-d-xo.html
#ProTip everyone. Can't speak for all cameras but on the Sony A7IV and A7Siii when applying a lut to a 1080p hdmi signal, you will get a green tint. I believe it is a software issue that hopefully blackmagic will fix. The work around I found is setting your hdmi out to 4k. The lut will work properly then and with the BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G Micro Converter's secret down scaling feature, it will send a 1080p signal with the lut to your atem.
Thanks for that, very helpful, But I have an issue. I im connecting from a laptop HDMI to the Bidirectional converter from the SDI out then to an atem 2 M/E Production studio 4k.. But I get nothing out.. Can you provide some assistance?
The Production Studio series of switchers don't have built-in scalers. So the video format on the input has to match the internal format exactly. So, if for example, your laptop was outputting 1080p30, but your switcher was set to 1080p29.97, the switcher wouldn't "see" the input source and you'd just have black video on that input.
Hi there. Question. I have a Camera with only a HDMI output and I need to send a SDI signal to large screens but I would also like to get a HDMI signal to connect a HDMI only 7" monitor. So this should work right? Plugin in a HD HDMI signal will give me a HD sDI out and ALSO a HDMI loop that i can use for my monitor. Sorry to bother u. I wish I had a camcorder with both HDMI and SDI out. Thanks for your help
Yes, that would work. Many camcorders that do have both SDI & HDMI will only output to one or the other -- they won't do both at the same time. This includes the models that I use -- I have to select which output I want to use in the menu.
I have a BMD Bi-Directional SDI/HDMI 3G converter. 1) This works fine when I connect a video source to SDI IN and HDMI OUT to Monitor #1. 2) It also works if I connect a laptop to HDMI IN and SDI OUT to Monitor #2 with BMD Micro Converter SDI to HDMI. This also works if I have the above plus HDMI OUT to Monitor #1. It also works if I replace this second monitor with a different monitor. This will be important in a bit. 3) The problem occurs when I connect the video source to SDI IN and SDI OUT to Monitor #2 and HDMI OUT to Monitor #1. What I see is that both monitors flash on and off. The same thing occurs if I replace Monitor #2 with another monitor. If I disconnect Monitor #2, the other Monitor (#1) works just fine. If I have Monitor #2 connected and disconnect Monitor #1, the problem is still there. I bought a second BMD Bi-Directional SDI/HDMI 3G converter and it did the same thing. Monitor #2 is not the problem as I tried a different monitor in step 2) with good results, and the problem repeated itself in 3). I also tried a two other SDI to HDMI converters (BMD and cheap Chinese model) at Monitor #2 with the same results. To summarize: If I connect a video source to SDI IN and SDI OUT goes to Monitor #2, I get both Monitors flashing. If I disconnect Monitor #2 from the SDI connection, Monitor #1 works just fine. Any ideas what is wrong or something else I need to try?
I’d guess the most likely cause to be a ground loop through the SDI cable. Test a setup where all equipment is plugged into a single power source and if that works you can try replacing devices or changing their power source one at a time until you identify which combination causes the issue.
Thank you for the video. Just to confirm, you can only use the SDI portion of the converter, correct? I will be attempting to downscale 12G to 1080 via SDI and do not have the option for HDMI. Thank you again!
To down-convert to 1080p HDMI just connect an HDMI display device which doesn't support 4K. The original source could be coming in on HDMI or SDI -- SDI because it's the main signal path, but HDMI works too because when no SDI source is connected the converter uses the HDMI source instead.
Thanks so much for this! I have a quick and just wanted your thoughts. I have a consumer monitor that I use as a reference monitor (saving up for that FSI! lol). To improve my colour accuracy and reproduction, I've enabled reference mode on the NVDIA GPU so that it doesn't have OS colour management, thus it's won't be using any ICM profiles. Unfortunately I'm on an ITX system so I can't have decklink card. I'm thinking of using one of these to load a calibration LUT before it hits the monitor. Would you say that this would be a good idea/is my thinking sound?
If your system has a Thunderbolt port you could use an UltraStudio instead of a DeckLink. Using the LUT feature of one of these converters is the next best thing when a purpose-made output device/card isn't an option.
This looks like a good way to add luts between the camera and Atem Mini. Thank you for sharing that! My friend just asked me if I knew a way. You mentioned that the SDI would loop if the HDMI input was not used. Does the same apply to the HDMI - will it loop if no SDI input is used? If so can l apply luts to the HDMI looped out? If not, I guess he could just run the SDI out back in the SDI in :)
Nice video To clear my doubts, i want to know if conversion from hdmi to sdi and sdi to hdmi can be done simultaneously... And if it dies, will the signal be affected?
You can go in both directions simultaneously. When one input is disconnected or is shut off, the signal from the other input is automatically routed. For example if you had a computer connected to the HDMI input and a video switcher connected to the SDI input and both are turned on, the computer signal would be available at the SDI output and the switcher signal would be available on the HDMI output. But if the computer is disconnected or turns off the signal from the switcher would appear on both the SDI and HDMI outputs. Same if the switcher is disconnected or powered off -- the signal from the computer would appear on both the SDI and HDMI outputs.
Hey there, Quick question : I'm using an old Panasonic wj-mx12 for vjing. That convertor seems to not receive any signal from the device, nor sending it :( any idea why ? Thank you for your video
The WJ-MX12 is an analog, standard definition switcher. It takes (and creates) analog composite, standard definition video. SDI is a digital signal, and these days is nearly always high definition. The two signals are very different and are not compatible. If you are wanting to send the output of your switcher to an HDMI display, you can get a component to HDMI converter (like amzn.to/4cDJYo2) along with an RCA to BNC adapter/cable. If you have an HDMI source that you want to get into your switcher, an HDMI to composite converter (like amzn.to/3VXEPBX) will do that. But more than likely an HDMI source is going to be high definition, so you'll experience pretty significant loss of detail going through the conversion. And you might have to watch out for differences in frame rate. The WJ-MX12 is only going to be capable of either 25 or 30 frames per second (depending on what region it was made for).
@@djp_video Thank you for your answer ! I already have those little converters and wanted to upgrade to something better 😅I guess I'll send back the product and keep digging the topic. Best,
Nice video, very helpful. If you connect it to the laptop with hdmi, does the laptop see it as a monitor? Can i use it like an extended desktop as I would with a second monitor, and it only sends the extended desktop to the SDI? For presentations it would really be helpful, if the audiance doesnt see the main monitor, I can just show on the extended desktop what I want.
The computer sees it as a monitor, capable of resolutions up to 4120x2160 at 60 fps. So, yes, it can be used to either extend or duplicate the desktop.
A tip: consider doing some of your content/presentation inside OBS Studio and sending your program output to the extended screen so you can have a lot more control of what you send to your audience, and even more scenes, too!
It will work like this?: From the PTZ camera output HDMI 2160p30 to HDMI input to Blackmagic BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G Micro Converter. From BMD BiDi output SDI 2160p30 to HyperDeck studio mini to 2160p30 SDI input for 4K recording and simultaneously from BMD BiDi output HDMI 1080p50 to HDMI input on ATEM Television Studio Pro HD which is set to 1080p50 format. Will the ATEM TVS Pro HD accept this 1080p50 signal downconverted from 20160p30? Thank you for your reply.
@@djp_video Thank you for answer. When I set the HDMI output from the PTZ camera (Canon CR-N300) to 2160p25 and ATEM TVS Pro HD to 1080p25, will it work?
Hi! We have a use case where we have inputs from SDI and HDMI but we want to have the HDMI output shown always when it’s active regardless of the state of the SDI input. Is it possible to achieve the same?
Active inputs take precedence over the pass-through functionality... so connecting an SDI source will turn off the HDMI -> HDMI pass-through... just as an active HDMI source will turn off the SDI->SDI pass-through.
@@djp_video Actually SDI input is overriding the HDMI input always regardless of the order of the input’s active state. Should we do some configurations to make the HDMI input be converted in the output whenever it’s active first?
That's the way it is meant to work. Connecting an SDI signal will interrupt the HDMI pass-through. It's a bi-directional converter. If the SDI input was ignored, it would only be converting in one direction, and the SDI input would be useless.
Thank you for this video, I have been searching a lot for information about this converter last weekend. I want to try out virtual production so I still need to know if this converter can do timecode. I hoped you would touch this subject but you did not. I hope you have an answer to this question?
I didn't include that as part of my testing. Certainly any timecode on the SDI input will be passed to the SDI output. As far as the HDMI ports, I"ll have to do some testing to find out.
@@djp_video The 12G bidi adapters pass the timecode in HDMI-CEC from the Atem to Atem cameras (BMPCC 4k, 6k, 6k Pro) to jam the camera timecode. The 3G bidi adapters don't.
Thanks for this! Can you confirm whether I can use this to send Prores RAW from my GH5S via HDMI, and convert to 12G SDI so that my Atomos Shogun 7 can record it in Prores RAW? They bloody promised PRR over HDMI for more than a year before telling me it wasnt possible and only 12G SDI was ... thoughts? Thanks!
HI SIR I USING BI DIRECTIONAL CONVERTER TAKING HDMI OUT FROM LAPTOP IN PUT TO DEVICE AND TAKING SDI OUTPUT IT COMES RESOLUTION ABOVE 3000 I NEED 1920X1080 HOW I GET SIR
As many as you want. It's just a signal format converter, so if you have 100 source video signals you can have 100 converters. If you're looking for a video interface for a computer and have Thunderbolt on your computer, take a look at the UltraStudio products from Blackmagic Design.
@@djp_video could u run off a quick demo. The reason: I'm considering the advantages of buying a Studio Television Pro 4K ATEM over a Mini Extreme ISO. SDI cable runs needed so if this is that low, the mini Extreme ISO would be more advantageous as the prior is fairly long in the tooth now and doesn't record ISOs.
The TVS doesn’t have any internal recording or streaming capabilities at all. And no SuperSource, and only one DVE. But having SDI and a high quality panel with real buttons (not just the cheap rubber ones) are certainly big pluses.
Which one? They've made quite a few over the years. With their current lineup they tend to indicate the speed as part of the name: 12G, 6G, 3G, etc. for 12G-SDI, 6G-SDI, and 3G-SDI respectively. Older models sometimes used different naming variations: 4K (6G-SDI), HD (could be 3G-SDI or HD-SDI). The Micro Converters have always been just 3G up until just a few months ago when they launched the 12G lineup. The Teranex Mini line models are all 12G. For models that don't explicitly state their speed in the name you'll want to consult the BMD website to be absolutely sure.
Thank you for the helpful video Doug! I've got an existing production system with 3 cams that top out at 720p. I want to add a fourth cam capable of being controlled by an ATEM 2ME SDI switcher. Looking at the BMD Studio Cam 4K Plus to give me some future 4K options but its minimum output resolution 1080p so need to downscale to 720p for now. So here's the question ... Would this work? Camera Video Path: Studio Cam 4K Plus [HDMI (1080p)] --> Bi-Directional 3G [SDI Out (1080p)] --> BMD UpDownCross [SDI Out (720p)] --> ATEM 2ME Camera Control Return Path: ATEM 2ME [Program Out (720p)] --> [on SDI In] Bi-Direction 3G [on HDMI In (720p)] --> [on HDMI] Studio Cam 4K Plus . Sorry if my "text-based diagrams" is confusing!
In case anyone is interested, I posed the same question on the Blackmagic Forum and Gary Adams posted that he confirmed in his lab that the combo of a BMD UpDownCross + BMD Bi-directional 3G successfully downscaled a Studio Cam 4K Plus output to 720p while providing Cam Control from an ATEM SDI switcher. Here's a link to the post: forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=155861 Thanks again for the video Doug!
Hi Doug, great walk through on these converters, thanks. I am using 2 of these converters from the output of decklink 4k mini monitor's (hdmi output). Converter 1 and Converter 2: converter 1 takes the hdmi in and hdmi out to monitor 1 which reports RGB 444 10 bit 2160p. Converter 1 is also running SDI out to the SDI in of converter 2 which then runs HDMI out to monitor 2. Monitor 2 is reporting 12 YUV 422. I was led to believe (from another guy on liftgammagain) that 10 bit rgb 444 2160p would be achievable with this setup. The SDI cable is rated at 12g in is well reviewed on BH photo (it is Canare 12G-SDI UHD 4K Single-Channel BNC Cable). Is my workflow not possible or should i try another cable? Thanks Doug.
It's not a cable issue. 4:4:4 over SDI is really, really rare -- it's almost always 4:2:2. Additionally, 4:4:4 requires 50% more bandwidth than 4:2:2, pushing it past the 12Gbps limit of 12G-SDI (at 2160p50/2160p60). This is why Ultra HD HDMI cables are rated to 18 Gbps, as that is the bandwidth required to do RGB at 2160p50/60. Additionally, SDI is almost never RGB. It's nearly always YCrCb. It's possible to do RGB over SDI, but I'm not aware of any hardware which supports it. The normal format for SDI is 10-bit 4:2:2 YCrCb. That is, by far, the most common video format used in professional video production, including everything you watch on broadcast television. Online streaming is also almost always YCrCb and is in most non-HDR cases just 8-bit. I don't believe 4:4:4 or RGB over SDI is supported by any Blackmagic converter. And I can't think of any that do. If the HDMI output of converter 1 is really 4:4:4 RGB, it means that the output is just mirroring the input and the signal isn't passing through a HDMI->SDI->HDMI conversion internally. The signal format is obviously being converted to 10-bit 4:2:2 YCrCb on the SDI, though. Are you sure you need 4:4:4? Unless you have very tight patterns made up of very different, high saturation and high brightness colors you'd be hard pressed to see the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2.
@@djp_video Thanks a lot Doug, couldn't have asked for a more comprehensive and enlightening answer, great. I think moving forward I'll invest in an Hdfury integral2 with the aim of calibrating 2 monitors at full levels. I'll use one of the biconverters to hold a lut for an LGC1 Oled. Thanks again for your reply.
I'd really love it if these converters offered the option of HDMI pass through when connected to an ATEM Switcher. It's rare I want to show a camera operator the program feed. Much more likely, is I have a Pocket 6K connected to the ATEM SDI Pro Iso (using SDI send and return) and I want to pass through the camera signal to an on-camera monitor for the operator. On my URSA G2, with two outputs, that's no problem, but with a Pocket camera the only option is to pass the signal through a monitor before the converter. Not an ideal signal flow in the event the monitor battery dies.
You could have the switcher set to send you your own camera feed back over the connected SDI output. It'd be slightly delayed, but you wouldn't need any additional hardware or for BMD to modify their converter.
I’m looking to do multiple channels of 12G to 3G conversion (within a mixed system). I’m currently looking to use 4 Decimator 12G-Crosses, but they are $495 each. Do you know if using one of these 12G micro converters->HDMI jumper-> 3G micro converter be a viable option? Does the 3G micro converter’s edid trick the 12G micro converter into downscaling? If so, that would save me almost $300 per converted channel.
Doug, You did not address SDI transmission cable length regarding 3g, 6g, and 12g using standard cables such as Belden 1694a. maybe a new video with real-world testing?
I'm not really equipped to do that testing. If I need to go farther than about 100 feet I use fiber instead of coax. I really don't even own any coax cable much longer than that. It is also going to vary a lot based on what other equipment you have in the mix, and the environment where you're going to be using it. So even if I did get the gear and take the time to test that, the results are likely to not be relevant for everyone else.
have you or anyone ever had one of these just quick working out of no where?? I have one of these to use with my Ursa 12k camera for my atem extremes, has literally never moved in my studio and one day it just stopped sending picture let alone any other camera controls. when everything is connected properly indication lights on the converter shine like normal. when connected to a computer the converter shows up. I have tried literally everything. updates were done after they stopped working and still nothing
It does happen occasionally. Based on my own personal experience, Blackmagic's failure rate might be slightly higher than other manufacturers, but it isn't excessively high. Reach out to their support personnel and they'll help you out.
Can I use BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G, and use only HDMI ports, connect from M1 Max macbook pro to a HDR Monitor or TVs like Asus PA32UCX or LG C1, this little box will become a 4K Monitor/Output card, sending clean Video data, at the same time use 33 point LUT to calibrate 4K HDR Monitor/48" LG C1? because BMD only has Mini Monitor 3G for Now.(1080p without LUT output) it's an amazing low budget 4K HDR Monitoring Solution without buying another LUT box.(only monitoring, not for Grading).
I know this might be a stupid question, but is there a way of sending 2 SDI input feeds to 2 HDMI output feeds? For example, if you wanted to send a Camera and a Laptop over SDI to your switcher, could you send both of these signals down the SDI feeds?
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I was sitting on the edge of my seat waiting in hope that what you said at 9:50 was going to be a reality, not just a hope!!! that little box is a swiss army knife or the glue that will allow lots of bits to come together. using my 4k cameras and my atme mini pro is going to be so much more epic with a few of these. Amazing!!!
Just saved me from buying an HDMI splitter and then hdmi to sdi convertor. Big thanks 🙏🏽
This was a good one Doug! Thanks for the overview.
Oh this will come in very handy. I can have four or five of these next to my smart Videohub and not only will they convert PCs/HMDI cameras coming in, I can use it to send other feeds back out to various monitors. Fingers-crossed they are as reliable as their predecessors.
thanks for your clear description, and practical advice.
Looking in the Blackmagic Converter manual, I could not find any mention of the Bidirectional Converter 12G down-converting UHD to HD.
It isn’t in the manual. That’s why I was surprised when it did. I checked on multiple combinations of monitors and video sources, and it most definitely does down-convert to HD with a UHD source when a monitor isn’t capable of displaying UHD.
Great video and great product. If I don't use SDI at all, could this device apply a LUT from HDMI in to HDMI out?
Yes.
@@djp_video Nice. Thank you.
Hi Doug, very interesting these new 12G mini Converters .. like you mentioned the USB-C for power must be disconected it terms of configuration wit a Computer .. I solved this particular Problem wit a Powered 7-Port USB Hub (Lindy 7 Port USB 3.0 Hub) who has enough Power to seve it to 7 Converters .. a side effect is, it can also conneted to a Computer at the same time .. I build this in my Boxed Production Studio that was inspired by your build. I use a Neutrik NA USB-3-B (flipped the insert 180°) .. now I'm able to connect the Hub via a standard USB-A to USB-B 3.0 Cable to configure the attached Micro Converter inside the Box ..
Yeah, I had thought of that before the video but failed to mention it. But that's one of the reasons I mentioned renaming the converters so you know which is which when you have multiple connected with a USB hub.
Had the same idea the other day. With a pelican type case. Good to know that it works.
dear Doug, thank you verry much for this introduction. regards, Uwe
Wow! That is SUPER slick!! I could DEFINITELY use these in my studio. Very nice.
Thank you for this video. Selling my hdmi-sdi 3g converters now and ordering bidirectional ones. Your excellent tip saves me a splitter at each camera what I currently use to have an external monitor at the camera and a sdi out at the same time :) Less is better :)
DJP at it again, thank you so much! You make my life a lot easier!
Hello, im so glad i found your channel to be honest!!!! Quick question can i apply the lut on HDMI in to HDMI out signal? and sdi in to sdi out? or the signals have to cross? thank you :)
Yes. Both of those options work.
@@djp_video Thanks doug :)
Maybe this is a stupid question but... can you color correct the output(s ) of this bidirectional converter, though the ATEM control software, when connected in SDI or HDMI, as if it would be a kind of "virtual camera" ?
No. You have to create a .cube file containing the LUT. Resolve will do this, and the controls are similar, but ultimately it does have to be converted to a .cube file so it can be uploaded into the converter.
This is great overview my man. Thanks for putting this together. New sub
Thanks for the sub!
Last time I checked, they said this couldn't convert in both directions at the same time. Because of that, I ended up buying the Decimator Design 12G-CROSS in the end which also includes a built-in scaler.
Their website and product manual make it pretty clear that it will convert in both directions simultaneously. And clearly from the demonstration here it certainly does.
The 12G-Cross is a great product, though. I have several and love them. But I only use them when I need scalers/frame rate converters.
Great video. Blackmagic does not have anything to this level of detail. I have a question I hope you can help me with. I was trying to understand the chaining function when I found your videos. I'm going from a Windows PC using Propresenter and I would like to send my presentation to two 1080P monitors. If I connect the HDMI out of the PC to the first Micro Converter IN port. Then, from the first Micro Converter, HDMI OUT to my fist monitor. Then, from the first Micro Converter SDI OUT to a second Micro Converter SDI IN. Then, from the second Micro Converter HDMI OUT to my second monitor. Does this sound correct, and should it work? Thank you!
Yes, that would work.
Is the LUT applied to the daisy chain output in SDI or HDMI? In other words: can you use it as a LUTbox?
Yes. You can turn it on for the SDI or HDMI output, or both.
@@djp_video Thanks! That is great news. It probably makes it the cheapest 4K LUTbox among the non bi models.
Thank you for the video! Really well done!
Do you know if Blackmagic has any Converter, which can convert 4K SDI to 1080p SDI? I know the Decimator, but I'd like to use BMD products. Currently I am doing it with two converters: Teranex SDI to HDMI (4K to 1080p) and then BiDirectional 3G HDMI to SDI... Is there a better way with BMD devices?
The better way is to use a Teranex Express or Teranex AV. But they’re a lot more expensive. Honestly, the Decimators are the best option.
I prefer decimator as it's easier to change settings from the lcd.
If you are interested in buying a hyperdeck then HD+ converts 2160p30 (max) to 1080p from sdi in and hdmi in to sdi mon out (toggle between osd and clean output)
Hi Doug. Thanks a lot for this lesson!
I'm dealing with an issue that my Hollyland Pyro H 4K transmitter that can't lock his signal into my ATEM Studio Production 4K HDMI input. All resolutions, frame rates and firmware updates are set. The only condition I got this worked was connecting this signal through a Atomos Ninja V and than ATEM was able to lock.
Now I'm hoping I can lock Pyro's signal into my ATEM SDI input by puting trhough this BiDirectional 12G converter to SDI before ATEM.
Would you have some explanation for this matter and do you think it's going to work out?
Greetings from Brazil!
Most likely the Pyro is not outputting the resolution and frame rate that you want it to, so the ATEM doesn't recognize the signal.
You could try an EDID emulator to force it to a specific resolution/frame rate, or a converter like a Decimator 12G-CROSS, to force the right format.
Hi Doug, thanks for the informative review. I have an output monitor that will only receive a 60hz signal. so far the only way I have found to get it to work is to set my ATEM to 60fps. But I want to record in 25fps. Will this device enable me to do both?
If the monitor tells the converter that it only accepts 60Hz it should convert it. I can double check though and let you know for sure
Hey Doug, thanks for the demo. Question: Any advantage graphics wise running laptop at 4k with a high resolution slides into these as it downscales the 4k to 1080 and gives you a more detailed slide image ? thinking of using in this regard for adding detail to slides are used in virtual presentations...or as a way to get 4k content into my HD switcher.
There wouldn't be a visual advantage using this particular converter -- it is designed to give a "quick and dirty" conversion rather than a high quality conversion, and does so by basically throwing away 3 out of 4 pixels, which results in a lower quality image than you'd get with native 1080p.
Higher quality conversions are available with other hardware, like the Teranex AV/Express products, but it isn't likely to look any better than a native 1080p output.
One thing you can do to improve the appearance of text on slides would be to turn off subpixel rendering. I have a video on that here: th-cam.com/video/tfni1annzyc/w-d-xo.html
@@djp_video Will teranex allow for sdi to sdi down conversion?
#ProTip everyone. Can't speak for all cameras but on the Sony A7IV and A7Siii when applying a lut to a 1080p hdmi signal, you will get a green tint. I believe it is a software issue that hopefully blackmagic will fix. The work around I found is setting your hdmi out to 4k. The lut will work properly then and with the BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G Micro Converter's secret down scaling feature, it will send a 1080p signal with the lut to your atem.
same here. I get the green image on bmpcc og, bmpcc4k on the hdmi out
Thanks for that, very helpful, But I have an issue. I im connecting from a laptop HDMI to the Bidirectional converter from the SDI out then to an atem 2 M/E Production studio 4k.. But I get nothing out.. Can you provide some assistance?
The Production Studio series of switchers don't have built-in scalers. So the video format on the input has to match the internal format exactly. So, if for example, your laptop was outputting 1080p30, but your switcher was set to 1080p29.97, the switcher wouldn't "see" the input source and you'd just have black video on that input.
Hi there. Question. I have a Camera with only a HDMI output and I need to send a SDI signal to large screens but I would also like to get a HDMI signal to connect a HDMI only 7" monitor. So this should work right? Plugin in a HD HDMI signal will give me a HD sDI out and ALSO a HDMI loop that i can use for my monitor. Sorry to bother u. I wish I had a camcorder with both HDMI and SDI out. Thanks for your help
Yes, that would work.
Many camcorders that do have both SDI & HDMI will only output to one or the other -- they won't do both at the same time. This includes the models that I use -- I have to select which output I want to use in the menu.
Thank you for this overview. Would love to see the crossconvert in comparison to the new 12g
The Blackmagic UpDownCross? That's a very different product. It's only HD for one -- no 4K support.
@@djp_video The UpDownCross HD right. well it's a converter but i guess i get what you mean
I have a BMD Bi-Directional SDI/HDMI 3G converter.
1) This works fine when I connect a video source to SDI IN and HDMI OUT to Monitor #1.
2) It also works if I connect a laptop to HDMI IN and SDI OUT to Monitor #2 with BMD Micro Converter SDI to HDMI.
This also works if I have the above plus HDMI OUT to Monitor #1.
It also works if I replace this second monitor with a different monitor. This will be important in a bit.
3) The problem occurs when I connect the video source to SDI IN and SDI OUT to Monitor #2 and HDMI OUT to Monitor #1.
What I see is that both monitors flash on and off. The same thing occurs if I replace Monitor #2 with another monitor. If I disconnect Monitor #2, the other Monitor (#1) works just fine. If I have Monitor #2 connected and disconnect Monitor #1, the problem is still there.
I bought a second BMD Bi-Directional SDI/HDMI 3G converter and it did the same thing.
Monitor #2 is not the problem as I tried a different monitor in step 2) with good results, and the problem repeated itself in 3).
I also tried a two other SDI to HDMI converters (BMD and cheap Chinese model) at Monitor #2 with the same results.
To summarize: If I connect a video source to SDI IN and SDI OUT goes to Monitor #2, I get both Monitors flashing. If I disconnect Monitor #2 from the SDI connection, Monitor #1 works just fine.
Any ideas what is wrong or something else I need to try?
I’d guess the most likely cause to be a ground loop through the SDI cable. Test a setup where all equipment is plugged into a single power source and if that works you can try replacing devices or changing their power source one at a time until you identify which combination causes the issue.
Hi, thanks for the video. I am just not sure about that if Is it possible to downscale from SDI IN 4k to SDI OUT 1080i? thanks in advance
Not on this device. But you could on a Decimator 12G-CROSS or Blackmagic Design Teranex AV/Express.
@@djp_video ok, thank so much for the quick answer
Thank you for the video. Just to confirm, you can only use the SDI portion of the converter, correct? I will be attempting to downscale 12G to 1080 via SDI and do not have the option for HDMI. Thank you again!
To down-convert to 1080p HDMI just connect an HDMI display device which doesn't support 4K. The original source could be coming in on HDMI or SDI -- SDI because it's the main signal path, but HDMI works too because when no SDI source is connected the converter uses the HDMI source instead.
Thanks so much for this! I have a quick and just wanted your thoughts. I have a consumer monitor that I use as a reference monitor (saving up for that FSI! lol). To improve my colour accuracy and reproduction, I've enabled reference mode on the NVDIA GPU so that it doesn't have OS colour management, thus it's won't be using any ICM profiles. Unfortunately I'm on an ITX system so I can't have decklink card. I'm thinking of using one of these to load a calibration LUT before it hits the monitor. Would you say that this would be a good idea/is my thinking sound?
If your system has a Thunderbolt port you could use an UltraStudio instead of a DeckLink.
Using the LUT feature of one of these converters is the next best thing when a purpose-made output device/card isn't an option.
@@djp_video Thanks so much! Yeah unfortunately the board doesn't have TB3 protocol just USB-C 10Gbps
This looks like a good way to add luts between the camera and Atem Mini. Thank you for sharing that! My friend just asked me if I knew a way.
You mentioned that the SDI would loop if the HDMI input was not used. Does the same apply to the HDMI - will it loop if no SDI input is used?
If so can l apply luts to the HDMI looped out?
If not, I guess he could just run the SDI out back in the SDI in :)
Yes, it will loop the HDMI if no SDI input is connected.
@@djp_video Thank you Doug! 🙂🙏🏻
Nice video
To clear my doubts, i want to know if conversion from hdmi to sdi and sdi to hdmi can be done simultaneously...
And if it dies, will the signal be affected?
You can go in both directions simultaneously.
When one input is disconnected or is shut off, the signal from the other input is automatically routed. For example if you had a computer connected to the HDMI input and a video switcher connected to the SDI input and both are turned on, the computer signal would be available at the SDI output and the switcher signal would be available on the HDMI output. But if the computer is disconnected or turns off the signal from the switcher would appear on both the SDI and HDMI outputs. Same if the switcher is disconnected or powered off -- the signal from the computer would appear on both the SDI and HDMI outputs.
Hey there,
Quick question : I'm using an old Panasonic wj-mx12 for vjing. That convertor seems to not receive any signal from the device, nor sending it :( any idea why ?
Thank you for your video
The WJ-MX12 is an analog, standard definition switcher. It takes (and creates) analog composite, standard definition video. SDI is a digital signal, and these days is nearly always high definition. The two signals are very different and are not compatible.
If you are wanting to send the output of your switcher to an HDMI display, you can get a component to HDMI converter (like amzn.to/4cDJYo2) along with an RCA to BNC adapter/cable. If you have an HDMI source that you want to get into your switcher, an HDMI to composite converter (like amzn.to/3VXEPBX) will do that.
But more than likely an HDMI source is going to be high definition, so you'll experience pretty significant loss of detail going through the conversion. And you might have to watch out for differences in frame rate. The WJ-MX12 is only going to be capable of either 25 or 30 frames per second (depending on what region it was made for).
@@djp_video Thank you for your answer ! I already have those little converters and wanted to upgrade to something better 😅I guess I'll send back the product and keep digging the topic.
Best,
Nice video, very helpful.
If you connect it to the laptop with hdmi, does the laptop see it as a monitor? Can i use it like an extended desktop as I would with a second monitor, and it only sends the extended desktop to the SDI?
For presentations it would really be helpful, if the audiance doesnt see the main monitor, I can just show on the extended desktop what I want.
The computer sees it as a monitor, capable of resolutions up to 4120x2160 at 60 fps. So, yes, it can be used to either extend or duplicate the desktop.
A tip: consider doing some of your content/presentation inside OBS Studio and sending your program output to the extended screen so you can have a lot more control of what you send to your audience, and even more scenes, too!
It will work like this?: From the PTZ camera output HDMI 2160p30 to HDMI input to Blackmagic BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G Micro Converter. From BMD BiDi output SDI 2160p30 to HyperDeck studio mini to 2160p30 SDI input for 4K recording and simultaneously from BMD BiDi output HDMI 1080p50 to HDMI input on ATEM Television Studio Pro HD which is set to 1080p50 format. Will the ATEM TVS Pro HD accept this 1080p50 signal downconverted from 20160p30?
Thank you for your reply.
The down conversion only handles resolution conversion. It won’t change/convert the frame rate.
@@djp_video Thank you for answer. When I set the HDMI output from the PTZ camera (Canon CR-N300) to 2160p25 and ATEM TVS Pro HD to 1080p25, will it work?
Hi! We have a use case where we have inputs from SDI and HDMI but we want to have the HDMI output shown always when it’s active regardless of the state of the SDI input. Is it possible to achieve the same?
No. If you need that, don't connect the SDI input, and use two separate converters. Or pick up a Decimator MD-HX.
@@djp_video So basically SDI takes priority over HMDI and I need to convert those inputs with the additional converters?
Active inputs take precedence over the pass-through functionality... so connecting an SDI source will turn off the HDMI -> HDMI pass-through... just as an active HDMI source will turn off the SDI->SDI pass-through.
@@djp_video Actually SDI input is overriding the HDMI input always regardless of the order of the input’s active state. Should we do some configurations to make the HDMI input be converted in the output whenever it’s active first?
That's the way it is meant to work. Connecting an SDI signal will interrupt the HDMI pass-through. It's a bi-directional converter. If the SDI input was ignored, it would only be converting in one direction, and the SDI input would be useless.
Great Channel! - Do share what app you are using to generate those QR code stickers? I'm guessing for inventory/maintenance records?
They’re done by my crewaxis.com site. It has a full inventory management feature.
Thank you for this video, I have been searching a lot for information about this converter last weekend. I want to try out virtual production so I still need to know if this converter can do timecode. I hoped you would touch this subject but you did not. I hope you have an answer to this question?
I didn't include that as part of my testing. Certainly any timecode on the SDI input will be passed to the SDI output. As far as the HDMI ports, I"ll have to do some testing to find out.
@@djp_video The 12G bidi adapters pass the timecode in HDMI-CEC from the Atem to Atem cameras (BMPCC 4k, 6k, 6k Pro) to jam the camera timecode. The 3G bidi adapters don't.
Thanks for this! Can you confirm whether I can use this to send Prores RAW from my GH5S via HDMI, and convert to 12G SDI so that my Atomos Shogun 7 can record it in Prores RAW? They bloody promised PRR over HDMI for more than a year before telling me it wasnt possible and only 12G SDI was ... thoughts? Thanks!
I don't believe so.
HI SIR I USING BI DIRECTIONAL CONVERTER TAKING HDMI OUT FROM LAPTOP IN PUT TO DEVICE AND TAKING SDI OUTPUT IT COMES RESOLUTION ABOVE 3000 I NEED 1920X1080
HOW I GET SIR
You can adjust the video output resolution on your computer
Hi Doug, 3D LUT is available at the 3G converts (at least now)
Ah OK. Only SDI-HDMI 3G converter
Yes, only the SDI-to-HDMI. Not the BiDirectional 3G. I verified.
What for are you using QR codes on your converters?
Tracking inventory using my CrewAxis website
So if I heard correctly, framesize/framerate conversion is going on inside as well? That's pretty cool.
Okay framesize, but not frame rate, got it. I'm good.
Can I ask if I can directly use the obs software?
thank
No. This isn't a capture device.
How many of these can I run concurrently? I'm building a video wall, for example.
As many as you want. It's just a signal format converter, so if you have 100 source video signals you can have 100 converters. If you're looking for a video interface for a computer and have Thunderbolt on your computer, take a look at the UltraStudio products from Blackmagic Design.
Love this thing! Other than my Final Cut Pro is being inconsistent when it wants to work on my external monitor from it.
Inconsistent how?
Whats the latency from source thru the conversion?
Around 1ms per conversion
@@djp_video could u run off a quick demo. The reason: I'm considering the advantages of buying a Studio Television Pro 4K ATEM over a Mini Extreme ISO. SDI cable runs needed so if this is that low, the mini Extreme ISO would be more advantageous as the prior is fairly long in the tooth now and doesn't record ISOs.
The TVS doesn’t have any internal recording or streaming capabilities at all. And no SuperSource, and only one DVE. But having SDI and a high quality panel with real buttons (not just the cheap rubber ones) are certainly big pluses.
@@djp_video Do you know the speed of the older BMD SDI to HDMI converter?
Which one? They've made quite a few over the years.
With their current lineup they tend to indicate the speed as part of the name: 12G, 6G, 3G, etc. for 12G-SDI, 6G-SDI, and 3G-SDI respectively. Older models sometimes used different naming variations: 4K (6G-SDI), HD (could be 3G-SDI or HD-SDI). The Micro Converters have always been just 3G up until just a few months ago when they launched the 12G lineup. The Teranex Mini line models are all 12G. For models that don't explicitly state their speed in the name you'll want to consult the BMD website to be absolutely sure.
Thank you for the helpful video Doug! I've got an existing production system with 3 cams that top out at 720p. I want to add a fourth cam capable of being controlled by an ATEM 2ME SDI switcher. Looking at the BMD Studio Cam 4K Plus to give me some future 4K options but its minimum output resolution 1080p so need to downscale to 720p for now. So here's the question ... Would this work?
Camera Video Path:
Studio Cam 4K Plus [HDMI (1080p)] --> Bi-Directional 3G [SDI Out (1080p)] --> BMD UpDownCross [SDI Out (720p)] --> ATEM 2ME
Camera Control Return Path:
ATEM 2ME [Program Out (720p)] --> [on SDI In] Bi-Direction 3G [on HDMI In (720p)] --> [on HDMI] Studio Cam 4K Plus .
Sorry if my "text-based diagrams" is confusing!
In case anyone is interested, I posed the same question on the Blackmagic Forum and Gary Adams posted that he confirmed in his lab that the combo of a BMD UpDownCross + BMD Bi-directional 3G successfully downscaled a Studio Cam 4K Plus output to 720p while providing Cam Control from an ATEM SDI switcher. Here's a link to the post:
forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=155861
Thanks again for the video Doug!
Hi Doug, great walk through on these converters, thanks. I am using 2 of these converters from the output of decklink 4k mini monitor's (hdmi output). Converter 1 and Converter 2: converter 1 takes the hdmi in and hdmi out to monitor 1 which reports RGB 444 10 bit 2160p. Converter 1 is also running SDI out to the SDI in of converter 2 which then runs HDMI out to monitor 2. Monitor 2 is reporting 12 YUV 422. I was led to believe (from another guy on liftgammagain) that 10 bit rgb 444 2160p would be achievable with this setup. The SDI cable is rated at 12g in is well reviewed on BH photo (it is Canare 12G-SDI UHD 4K Single-Channel BNC Cable). Is my workflow not possible or should i try another cable? Thanks Doug.
It's not a cable issue.
4:4:4 over SDI is really, really rare -- it's almost always 4:2:2. Additionally, 4:4:4 requires 50% more bandwidth than 4:2:2, pushing it past the 12Gbps limit of 12G-SDI (at 2160p50/2160p60). This is why Ultra HD HDMI cables are rated to 18 Gbps, as that is the bandwidth required to do RGB at 2160p50/60.
Additionally, SDI is almost never RGB. It's nearly always YCrCb. It's possible to do RGB over SDI, but I'm not aware of any hardware which supports it. The normal format for SDI is 10-bit 4:2:2 YCrCb. That is, by far, the most common video format used in professional video production, including everything you watch on broadcast television. Online streaming is also almost always YCrCb and is in most non-HDR cases just 8-bit.
I don't believe 4:4:4 or RGB over SDI is supported by any Blackmagic converter. And I can't think of any that do.
If the HDMI output of converter 1 is really 4:4:4 RGB, it means that the output is just mirroring the input and the signal isn't passing through a HDMI->SDI->HDMI conversion internally. The signal format is obviously being converted to 10-bit 4:2:2 YCrCb on the SDI, though.
Are you sure you need 4:4:4? Unless you have very tight patterns made up of very different, high saturation and high brightness colors you'd be hard pressed to see the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2.
@@djp_video Thanks a lot Doug, couldn't have asked for a more comprehensive and enlightening answer, great. I think moving forward I'll invest in an Hdfury integral2 with the aim of calibrating 2 monitors at full levels. I'll use one of the biconverters to hold a lut for an LGC1 Oled. Thanks again for your reply.
I'd really love it if these converters offered the option of HDMI pass through when connected to an ATEM Switcher. It's rare I want to show a camera operator the program feed. Much more likely, is I have a Pocket 6K connected to the ATEM SDI Pro Iso (using SDI send and return) and I want to pass through the camera signal to an on-camera monitor for the operator. On my URSA G2, with two outputs, that's no problem, but with a Pocket camera the only option is to pass the signal through a monitor before the converter. Not an ideal signal flow in the event the monitor battery dies.
You could have the switcher set to send you your own camera feed back over the connected SDI output. It'd be slightly delayed, but you wouldn't need any additional hardware or for BMD to modify their converter.
I’m looking to do multiple channels of 12G to 3G conversion (within a mixed system). I’m currently looking to use 4 Decimator 12G-Crosses, but they are $495 each. Do you know if using one of these 12G micro converters->HDMI jumper-> 3G micro converter be a viable option? Does the 3G micro converter’s edid trick the 12G micro converter into downscaling? If so, that would save me almost $300 per converted channel.
Yes,, that would work. 12G SDI-to-HDMI -> 3G HDMI-to-SDI.
Doug, You did not address SDI transmission cable length regarding 3g, 6g, and 12g using standard cables such as Belden 1694a. maybe a new video with real-world testing?
I'm not really equipped to do that testing. If I need to go farther than about 100 feet I use fiber instead of coax. I really don't even own any coax cable much longer than that.
It is also going to vary a lot based on what other equipment you have in the mix, and the environment where you're going to be using it. So even if I did get the gear and take the time to test that, the results are likely to not be relevant for everyone else.
have you or anyone ever had one of these just quick working out of no where?? I have one of these to use with my Ursa 12k camera for my atem extremes, has literally never moved in my studio and one day it just stopped sending picture let alone any other camera controls. when everything is connected properly indication lights on the converter shine like normal. when connected to a computer the converter shows up. I have tried literally everything. updates were done after they stopped working and still nothing
It does happen occasionally. Based on my own personal experience, Blackmagic's failure rate might be slightly higher than other manufacturers, but it isn't excessively high. Reach out to their support personnel and they'll help you out.
Can HDMI input P and output I?
I'm not sure... I've never tried. I don't think I own any devices that don't accept a 1080p signal to see if I can force it to output 1080i instead.
Can you do that streaming on window to Macintosh.. maybe that use black magic design what used gear let me know?
These converters are just for converting to/from SDI and HDMI. They aren’t interfaces for getting video in and out of a computer.
Can I use BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G, and use only HDMI ports, connect from M1 Max macbook pro to a HDR Monitor or TVs like Asus PA32UCX or LG C1, this little box will become a 4K Monitor/Output card, sending clean Video data, at the same time use 33 point LUT to calibrate 4K HDR Monitor/48" LG C1? because BMD only has Mini Monitor 3G for Now.(1080p without LUT output) it's an amazing low budget 4K HDR Monitoring Solution without buying another LUT box.(only monitoring, not for Grading).
You could use it for applying LUTs to an existing HDMI output, but it won't provide a new output on a connected computer.
It's probably a good thing there's not a way to do single and multiple lookup tables... can you imagine how they'd abbreviate them? :D
Спасибо за информацию!
Iam looking for second hand media/film accessories, so if you have some or any film/camera accessories you want to get rid of lets talk offline
I'll save you 20 minutes and three ads: the new 12G converter also does 4K to 1080p conversion in addition to its other advertised features.
Any news about the regular HDMI->SDI converter? Does is also do the 4k to 1080p?
I know this might be a stupid question, but is there a way of sending 2 SDI input feeds to 2 HDMI output feeds? For example, if you wanted to send a Camera and a Laptop over SDI to your switcher, could you send both of these signals down the SDI feeds?
You'd need two converters and two SDI lines