One detail I would add here. If you go heavy into tanks, the opponent will likely go air (Liberators, Banshees, or eventually BCs) -- they lose trades pushing into tanks with anything they make on the ground. Cyclones or Vikings have to be in high numbers to defend your tanks. You might also face tanks, just to hold you at bay so you can't push... so Cyclones end up losing value, except to hunt harassment (Medivac drops, Banshees, Liberators). The TvT fight centers around tanks and Vikings, with Vikings guarding tanks from air units that shoot down. You will always need your own air units that shoot down as well, to break the enemy tank line. I think Banshees are better at it, since they can cloak to give your tanks extra vision and force scans. Most people use Liberators with the range upgrade. To make Cyclones useful, you need to force enemy tanks to break siege mode. The easiest way to do that is just to have a few harassment units in the air. When the tanks move to retreat, the Cyclones can chase them down. This lets you challenge their air units with Cyclones as well. So a good combination CAN be Cyclone + Banshee, backing up your own tank line.
Beasty! This is finally here! I was waiting for this for so long, after doing the battle mech in d3 and losing like 8 matches in a row, I’m climbing back up. When I play battle mech I usually have like 3 more bases then my opponents turtle mech, it snipes bases to easily. And I successfully wrecked a Protoss with cyclones and hellions, I saw he had a twilight and a robo building because I saved my reaper, and my 2 cyclones went right over and he had a few stalkers, I cancelled his building 3rd and kept pressuring and pressuring and had 2 more bases then him and easily won. But I’ve had terrible experiences against Terran turtle mech until I builded banshee and bcs just like against Zerg. In fact I feel like transitioning into battle cruisers is very strong at least in diamond.
Yiqing Wang Against turtle mech I think battle mech is hard countered and going bc or banshee is not a good idea because of missile turrets (protecting tank lines, providing detection, etc) and Thor Viking eats it alive.
Beasty, while you do describe to make faster tanks with the big bio two base push, how do you exactly defend? What micro tips could you give to someone who either dies or gets seriously wounded from a 2 base push establishing the third.
Thank you :) What do you think of having 3-4 ghosts, hellion, marine at around 7min to roach rav pushes. I've been doing it and it's working very well especially if they then transition into hydra/lurker its pretty much gg. Snipes get so much value that even if I lose due to poor macro I have half the units lost in resources.
Ghosts are very expensive, hellion + ghost can work in the early game for some kind of hellbat ghost push but that's about it. At least from the stuff I tested.
@@BeastyqtSC2 I've been doing a ghost first build vs zerg and even in some cases vs terran in 2v2. I've added a lot of value with the ghost up until mech comes into play. I've gotten in down to ghost/cyclone/mines as a decent counter for most builds. I'm getting slow on my transition but I learned from you some good tips to switch into tanks and when or switch to liberator. Still trying to get the unit comp down to a proper # so I can follow it each game and know when to move to more tanks or more AA. Good job as always bro.
Hey Beasty :) Do you think this build order can be good vs InnoVation push (2 raven / 2 tank / few marines ) ? It comes around fifth minute and i wonder is it possible to deal with that with only cyclones. Any tips against that?
How do you just not lose to early push with raven? with the low tank count you just get your tanks matrixed and you die, cause you have like 2 tanks and 4 clones when he attacks. Without the tanks there's no way to kill the bio.
Can someone explain to me how the autocast on the cyclone ability works? I've just started playing terran and its confusing me how it works. I expected that the cyclones would cast the lockon ability as soon as they get in range of something they can fire at, but that doesn't seem to be the case
I can't tell for sure either, however here are a few things I noticed: Cyclones never auto-lock on units that another cyclone already locked on. Cyclones don't auto-lock on buildings that aren't defensive buildings like cannons or Spine Crawlers. Cyclones will auto lock on units in their auto attack range when they A-move or don't move at all (like an afk'ed cyclone will auto-lock on enemy units that walks into its range.) There may be more, like I don't know how cyclones prioritize targets when multiple targets get into their range at the same time but I hope I could help you.
My suggestion is pressure all the time, keep your cyclones across the map, unless you have bad micro and can’t pay attention to your cyclones across the field while macroing at home. In that case your cyclones will just die
With the new research time of yamato cannon the other guy can't have it ready when he teleports into your base therefore he can't kill your cyclone if you just lock on and keep moving. If the other guy won't stop making bc's you can add like two ravens, lock them with the ability and easily kill with cyclones/vikings. So yeah, it is a direct counter to bc rush.
One detail I would add here. If you go heavy into tanks, the opponent will likely go air (Liberators, Banshees, or eventually BCs) -- they lose trades pushing into tanks with anything they make on the ground. Cyclones or Vikings have to be in high numbers to defend your tanks. You might also face tanks, just to hold you at bay so you can't push... so Cyclones end up losing value, except to hunt harassment (Medivac drops, Banshees, Liberators). The TvT fight centers around tanks and Vikings, with Vikings guarding tanks from air units that shoot down. You will always need your own air units that shoot down as well, to break the enemy tank line. I think Banshees are better at it, since they can cloak to give your tanks extra vision and force scans. Most people use Liberators with the range upgrade.
To make Cyclones useful, you need to force enemy tanks to break siege mode. The easiest way to do that is just to have a few harassment units in the air. When the tanks move to retreat, the Cyclones can chase them down. This lets you challenge their air units with Cyclones as well. So a good combination CAN be Cyclone + Banshee, backing up your own tank line.
Beasty is such a god, keep it up man thanks a lot!!
second
You think the new thor range can replace vikings for libs?
thx beasty!
Beasty! This is finally here!
I was waiting for this for so long, after doing the battle mech in d3 and losing like 8 matches in a row, I’m climbing back up.
When I play battle mech I usually have like 3 more bases then my opponents turtle mech, it snipes bases to easily. And I successfully wrecked a Protoss with cyclones and hellions, I saw he had a twilight and a robo building because I saved my reaper, and my 2 cyclones went right over and he had a few stalkers, I cancelled his building 3rd and kept pressuring and pressuring and had 2 more bases then him and easily won.
But I’ve had terrible experiences against Terran turtle mech until I builded banshee and bcs just like against Zerg. In fact I feel like transitioning into battle cruisers is very strong at least in diamond.
And I never builded a single siege tank in any of those games :D
Also can you give a tip on what maps to ban?
@@yiqingwang2546 I don't veto any maps and haven't really thought about what I would veto :)
Yiqing Wang Against turtle mech I think battle mech is hard countered and going bc or banshee is not a good idea because of missile turrets (protecting tank lines, providing detection, etc) and Thor Viking eats it alive.
Beasty, while you do describe to make faster tanks with the big bio two base push, how do you exactly defend? What micro tips could you give to someone who either dies or gets seriously wounded from a 2 base push establishing the third.
what rank?
I've been wanting this for so long so i managed to switch to a Zerg player. Please do Zerg guide
......but by the time I make a Zerg guide you will switch to Protoss....so I'll just make a guide for Protoss and it will be just in time for you! :D
@@BeastyqtSC2 I find protoss super boring, i love terran but i have the most sucess with Zerg
Thank you :) What do you think of having 3-4 ghosts, hellion, marine at around 7min to roach rav pushes. I've been doing it and it's working very well especially if they then transition into hydra/lurker its pretty much gg. Snipes get so much value that even if I lose due to poor macro I have half the units lost in resources.
Ghosts are very expensive, hellion + ghost can work in the early game for some kind of hellbat ghost push but that's about it. At least from the stuff I tested.
@@BeastyqtSC2 I've been doing a ghost first build vs zerg and even in some cases vs terran in 2v2. I've added a lot of value with the ghost up until mech comes into play. I've gotten in down to ghost/cyclone/mines as a decent counter for most builds. I'm getting slow on my transition but I learned from you some good tips to switch into tanks and when or switch to liberator. Still trying to get the unit comp down to a proper # so I can follow it each game and know when to move to more tanks or more AA.
Good job as always bro.
@BeastyqtSC2 I wonder if new thor range can replace vikings for libs. They have 10 range and 14 with the upgrade, thors now have 11
Hey Beasty :) Do you think this build order can be good vs InnoVation push (2 raven / 2 tank / few marines ) ? It comes around fifth minute and i wonder is it possible to deal with that with only cyclones. Any tips against that?
I'm not sure what that push is exactly so no idea.
How do you just not lose to early push with raven? with the low tank count you just get your tanks matrixed and you die, cause you have like 2 tanks and 4 clones when he attacks. Without the tanks there's no way to kill the bio.
Coool! :D
Can someone explain to me how the autocast on the cyclone ability works? I've just started playing terran and its confusing me how it works. I expected that the cyclones would cast the lockon ability as soon as they get in range of something they can fire at, but that doesn't seem to be the case
I can't tell for sure either, however here are a few things I noticed:
Cyclones never auto-lock on units that another cyclone already locked on.
Cyclones don't auto-lock on buildings that aren't defensive buildings like cannons or Spine Crawlers.
Cyclones will auto lock on units in their auto attack range when they A-move or don't move at all (like an afk'ed cyclone will auto-lock on enemy units that walks into its range.)
There may be more, like I don't know how cyclones prioritize targets when multiple targets get into their range at the same time but I hope I could help you.
@@dewottgaming1507 thanks that does help quite a bit. appreciate it!
When is a good time to move out with your whole army?
Joze Smrekar Ask ISIS
My suggestion is pressure all the time, keep your cyclones across the map, unless you have bad micro and can’t pay attention to your cyclones across the field while macroing at home. In that case your cyclones will just die
How about BC rush can this defend against it?
With the new research time of yamato cannon the other guy can't have it ready when he teleports into your base therefore he can't kill your cyclone if you just lock on and keep moving. If the other guy won't stop making bc's you can add like two ravens, lock them with the ability and easily kill with cyclones/vikings. So yeah, it is a direct counter to bc rush.