One of the cleverest things about this episode is that it follows a story in which the Doctor tries to explain to Rose how vulnerable he is when he forms a close relationship with an ephemeral life form such as a human, because their lives are so fleeting - and then, in this story, we get a glimpse of what such a fleeting life span might look like from the Doctor's perspective. It makes the Doctor seem even braver that he is willing to open his "hearts" to such beings, knowing how quickly he will be faced with their loss. Even so, he continues to do it, as the pain accumulates in him.
Yes, it does show how his affections lead to loss, over and over and over again, because they must, yet still he allows himself to go through it. It also shows why he is so lonely, as his loves flicker and die around him all the time.
@@Syntell Yes, but now imagine that you live in a world where mayflies are the only things you can love, because all humans and animals with longer life spans have gone extinct.
Yet the poor sod literally put hearts in quotation marks, as if his love and generosity doesn't extend far past the normal amount of most humans. Two hearts. One brain. No wonder he literally can't keep himself together.@@Syntell
The ship was named after her as she was a famous figure from earth history.... her brain wasn't ready because they are simple robots and in their logic they were waiting for her brain to be the same age as the ship (since it was built)...
Sigh. Rarely does anyone agree with me. But it is what it is. The thing that bothers me about this episode though is we see too little of Reinette’s actual varying accomplishments. Moffat was asked to write a story about a famous historical woman, and it’s really conveniently more about the future. In this episode, she’s really someone that could be replaced with many female leaders. Why HER? What is so special about Reinette in history? It can’t just be about names on a ship. That ignores her true worth and why it was there. The Doctor speeds through her accomplishments as if Moffat was annoyed he even had to mention them. The ship could be called “R2D2” and then they’d run and find him. It’s so easy to give her a bit more to do. Show her in her element. Not fighting aliens, accomplishing normal life. Especially Sophie Myles who has phenomenal presence. Personally I found it absurd that he would willingly leave Rose behind without a plan to get back. It’s weirdly dismissive of the lead female character. He talks about just an episode before of how different Rose is. He says he isn’t going to just abandon her. But I could gel with 90% of the episode. Just if you’re going to bother writing about a famous female leader, show her normal accomplishments. Not just the excitement.
@IslesYankeeLady sorry, couldn't disagree more... the whole reason the ship was named after her was BECAUSE of her accomplishments... its a 45 minute sci fi show, it's meant to have pace and grip the audience... you can't have long periods listing accomplishments whenever a historical figure pops up...! Unless your specifically interested in that figure it'll be boring, people will lose interest... an episode has to "flow" organically, that's why in movies, occasionally quite relevant plot points are left out (for the directors cut usually)... the narrative has to flow... even the greatest writers would struggle to fit in the many and eclectic successes the madam achieved in her short life, whilst making it punchy and exciting... for me the balance is fine... it Hooked me enough to look her up for more info... don't forget it's not the discovery channel, just a kids sci fi show.... I agree about abandoning rose but upon thinking about it, he could easily find a version of the tardis and hop a lift back to the space ship as he would remember the many places he'd visited in past lives (there was even an actual French revolution episode set just a few years later)... he could be back on the ship within minutes of roses time....
21:19, David Tennant knocked it out the park on this one. Tom Baker's 4th Doctor used to do monologues about how lonely his existence is. But with this one you can feel it.
@@SyntellYes, for other Timelords, but the Doctor has been going through bodies like his whole life has been spent at Mardis Gras. The other Time Lords, when they existed, were functionaly immortal. Yeah, they would die at some point, but were incredibly hard to kill for good.
David Tennant's Doctor is truly the first where you feel the weight he carries. That constant weight of being the only one of his kind in the entire universe, whose immortal nature means he has far more goodbyes than hellos, and never a forever. The only constant in his life is that he will always be alone. You'll find out if you keep watching the next few seasons exactly why he is so alone and how it adds to his grief and guilt. Tennant conveys so much of that without saying a word.
Really cool discussion at the end, too. I hadn't thought of the parallel of the ship being damaged/lost and Renet being sick/lost. Also loved that yall picked up on the connection to last episode with how rose is coming to terms with the fact that the doctor has had many companions. In the end, I think her jealousy turned into pity for the doctor; always alone and constantly saying goodbye. "Are you alright?" "I'm always alright" 🥲
David and Sophia were actually an item for a few years before he met his future wife Georgia. So the chemistry between them here is very real. I think you will find this explanation for the ships name from part of a review will help you ; "The clockwork droids were trying to recreate the ship as efficiently as possible, and since they’re not Doctor Who’s smartest villain, they look to the spacecraft’s namesake for inspiration. The ship is named in honour of Madame de Pompadour, which leads the droids to believe that she’s the only body capable of powering it. However, their portals weren’t exactly accurate and they found themselves split along her time stream. They wanted to kill their target at exactly age 37 because their ship was the same age and they believed that her body would need to be of the same maturity to be compatible. Specifically, the clockwork droids needed Madame de Pompadour’s brain to power their computer."
Seriously my favorite episode of Dr. Who. It's fun, funny, whimsical and beautiful, and bittersweet. A perfectly contained story, beautifully told and gorgeously acted. Every member of the cast killed it.
Yeah, definitely in my top 3. Madame De Pompadour is one of the most important, accomplished and influential women in history, certainly worth naming something after, just like you might name a space shuttle 'Columbus'. Although this episode would always be good because of the clever writing, it's Sophia Myles's performance that lifts it to such heights for me - she portrays the charismatic Renette beautifully.
@@btggaming624 Thanks for the reply. Good timing with where you're at on TH-cam, because 'Blink' is, and always will be, my favourite episode. Great writing and acting - TV heaven. Carey Mulligan wonderful, and of course she's gone on to be Oscar nominated 3 times, and won many other awards. My other top three episode, you haven't watched yet (at least on TH-cam), so I don't want to pre-praise in case it affects your expectations. I'll comment when you get there. It's actually a bit wrong for me to say top three, we all do it, but with Doctor Who I have more like a top 40, or 50, and you've still got so many great episodes to come.
For context on royal marriage from times past, most marriages were arranged between royal families to protect the bloodline but kings were almost expected to have mistresses. English (and Scottish) King Charles II was succeeded by his brother James as Charles, whilst he had many children by his many mistresses, never had any legitimate heirs with his wife. Also ships being named after historical figures is not unknown in sci-fi, many of the Earth ships in 90's show Babylon 5 were named after ancient Greeks (Alexander, Agamemnon, Hercules, etc). Love your reactions fellas, and this episode always makes this soft old git in his 50's tear up, especially when the Doctor reads the letter at the end. And you're "quite right", the wide shot of the Doctor alone in the empty console room is a fantastic metaphor for how lonely he truly is.
Easily one of the best episodes of this season and tbh the whole series really. David Tennant’s charm and charisma ( not to mention his good looks lol ) are really on display here. I’m really loving y’all’s reactions to this wonderful show!
One of my all time favorite episodes. The writing, the music, the chemistry, it’s so tragically beautiful. A big part of me wishes that Rinette had gotten a chance to go on one trip before she died but I suppose it wouldn’t have been nearly as impactful.
This is where Doctor Who enters the realms of Surrealist poetry and it reminds me of such series as Tales From Europe, which had such fairy tale gems as The Singing Ringing tree and The Tinder Box. This series was broadcast during myself and the writer's - Steven Moffat's - childhood and more than likely impacted upon his imagination as it did mine. Dark European fairy tales that were presented in illustrated books by Arthur Rackham or Heath Robinson.
There’s a symmetry here between Renette and Princess Diana. Both were commoners and both were popular with the public and disliked by their respective Royals. The only difference being is that Diana married her prince (now the King of England) and Renette didn’t. Although Rose did make the comment that Renette was the equivalent of Camilla (who was Prince Charles’ mistress whilst he was married to Diana) so there’s another connection there. Glad you both enjoyed this episode. Steven Moffat, the writer, won a Hugo award (I believe), for this episode, and you can understand why. Having said that, his single episode in season 3, is probably the best Who story he’s ever written (and he wrote some bangers when he was show runner as well), so the best is yet to come from him.
I love this episode. I didn't catch before the relationship between the ship degrading and her illness, so you're making me look at a new dimension to the symmetry of the story. You'd think the most memorable thing is the horse through the mirror, but for me it is her walking into the Doctor's mind and seeing who he really is. That was really well written and acted and just makes the heartbreak later all the more powerful. David plays sad to the point of crying but not crying really really well. I never looked up imdb scores for Doctor WHO before, I just like what I like, so glad to see this one got the props it deserves. However, looking at it now, there are higher scored episodes to come. Lots over 8 and 9. Very few dip below 7.
Something that will become apparent very quickly is that Stephen Moffat episodes are some of the best in the entire show. It's not a coincidence that he became showrunner. Brilliant writer
lol my man the Doctor said it "she's one of the most accomplished women in history, the uncrowned queen of France" there's millions of ships named after her and there will be millions more for generations to come
Maybe whoever named the ship was a fan of Mme. du Pompadour, her artwork, or related to her in some way. Perhaps it was a royal person or the paramour of a future ruler or this is future France or a planet that had some French immigrants back in the day. A connection to the Doctor could be interesting, though, since we know there are sometimes little changes in time because of him. I think your idea of the ship being somehow connected to the star she picks (but never gets to tell him) is very interesting.
i think it’s simply that the crew on the ship admired her as a historical figure as to why they named the vessel after her. like how people name their boats.
I love this episode. Goes back to the original intention of the show to include historical events and people, honors a truly amazing woman, and shows the vulnerability of The Doctor. And the line "I'm always alright" takes on more and more meaning as time goes on.
When the Doctor talks about August of 1727 being rubbish, there are a few things he may be referring to, but the biggest of them is a volcanic eruption that cropped up earlier in the year. Volcanic eruptions have a tendency to play merry havoc with global weather patterns, so he was likely referring to some amount of unseasonable weather for the middle of august.
17:22 there’s an episode a long way from where you are now in the show that I can’t wait for you to see where he takes the long way around to his destination. Great reaction as usual.
One of my favorite "Doctor Who" episodes!!!!!! I couldn't wait until you got to it!!!! If the Patreon people haven't told you, I'll let my fellow commentators tell you about *Tennant's* love life here :) (Dude was a big player back in the day, without a TARDIS ;)).
Somebody posted the other day that Reinette doesn't get Rose. The monsters aren't the price Rose pays to be with the Doctor. The monsters are part of the attraction of being with the Doctor.
This episode won the 2007 Hugo Award for Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form. Hugos are/were considered one of the best awards ceremony in the writing media world (last few years notwithstanding impo).
David Tennant and Sophia (pronounced "fie" rather than "fee" in this case) Myles were a couple for a while after this. He later meets the woman he will marry on another episode. (I don't think that's a spoiler.) Myles went on to the one-series vampire private eye show, _Moonlight,_ as well as _Underworld._
From the time of classic Who, The Doctor has always been a traveller who shows up when there is trouble. Trouble doesn't come to people because they will meet him. Also, things are always named after historical figures, a couple of millennia from now, I'm shore Americans will still be naming things after Lincoln because he was a major historical figure.
August 1727 was a crop failure for France resulting in mild famine. It also saw the births of two French princesses and the death of one of France’s most popular generals. However, other than that, not that eventful. Certainly not really noteworthy and Paris was MOSTLY unaffected by the famine itself so… Yeah. Though The Doctor said it was a bit rubbish, perhaps he was implying boring. 1727 as a year is kind of boring overall.
Additional information: France at the point in history being looked is partway through a century of war with the British. From 1702 to 1815 France was involved in: The War of Spanish Succession, The War of Austrian Succession, The Carnatic War, The Seven Years War, The American Revolution, The French Revolutionary Wars, And the Napoleonic Wars. This series of devastating wars leaves France heavily in debt and starving by the time of the French Revolution. At the point this episode is set, we are just approaching and by the end have reached the War of Austrian Succession. France is careening towards total disaster and the nobility are trying desperately to ignore the warning signs.
Also, when she died, the doctor isn't allowed to go back on his own timeline so he couldn't just use the tardis to go back 2 years or so....if u remember the very 1st episode, he explained he can see everything and can feel different strands of timelines ... sometimes he CAN go back and change things and he can see it won't mess things up in future... however many times, it is a fixed moment in time that HAS to happen (like the destruction if his people) and he must not, MUST NOT! Try to change things, the consequences will be dire..... just wait and see...
Well not so much "not allowed" now that there are no more Time Lords enforcing such things, only that to do so could cause dangerous paradoxes (as seen in Father's Day). (Plus it'd make for a plot device that'd basically make every story redundant!)
This was a great discussion. I have always had a sort of love/hate relationship with this episode, but this discussion made me think about things in a different way and I can sort of appreciate it more. Thanks!
Actually Rose and Mickey couldn't operate the TARDIS even if they tried the only reason Rose could do it before was because of the Bad Wolf power that was ultimately killing her it's always been stated ever since Classic Who only the Doctor or a Time Lord can operate the TARDIS so without the Doctor Rose and Mickey would be stuck.
At this point in the future there’s probably more spaceships than sense out there, there’d probably be a Spacey McSpaceship and all sorts, why wouldn’t there be a fleet of ships named after french aristocrats?
@@ftumschkYes, HHGTTG is fantastic. But so few episodes. I've read the book, hear the audio, watched the tv, seen the film (shudders) and seen it live with some of the original cast. That's what BBC should do next, remake it, but properly, and ALL of it!
Y'know, as much of a romp as this episode is, now that I think about it, I don't really know what's going on underneath. At least not social commentary wise. I think it's just about the adventure and analysing the Doctor's character. With a bit of a history lesson in their too. Outside of the themes, why name the ship after a woman from 3000 years ago...? Well, assumably they've got good record keeping in the future. And they had to name it after someone. Maybe the captain was a huge hipster who went for a deep cut of history. I mean anyone who staffs their ship with clockwork robots is being a bit extra.
I will point out Rose's last attempt to fly the Tardis required a winch and a construction vehicle and then nearly resulted in Rose's death and did result in the regeneration of the Doctor. So I think "can't fly the Tardis without the Doctor" is fairly valid😅
Why not name the ship Madame de Pompadour? We have names from mythology that we are familiar with, Odysseus, Heracles, or Poseidon for example or historical figures like Hypatia or Alexander. Someone's fancy dictated that they named the ship Madame de Pompadour. Uranus has moons named after characters from Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream - for instance, Puck, Titania and Oberon. What reason in a name? Either lineal familiarity or just plain really like it . . except Pooky Dot the Seventeenth has to be a bit stretching it painful!
This episode is beloved, but it hits a bit odd coming after the episode where Rose is upset (and jealous) at a previous companion and the Doctor all but declares his love for her (he always stumbles on that word, but how are we to take his talk of humans dying and "someone you . . ."?). As you mention, Rose had come round to Sarah Jane coming along but was unhappy about Mickey doing so. (That could be an essay by itself -- which ex to you prefer being around all the time? -- I know at the time companions weren't romantic prospects, but in the last episode it seemed like there were "feelings.") This episode he seems happy to abandon Rose (and Mickey, who has just risked coming with them) in space. I guess the TARDIS could get them home, but it still seems reckless. He's also willing to abandon Rose to take the slow path with Mme. de Pompadour. A bit fickle, Doctor. (Also, doesn't he know she will die without growing old, so that's a few years, at best?) One could argue that it could have consequences if she died early (so could it if she stayed with the Doctor or went away with him). I will say that he did seem happy when the clock worked, though. I kind of like Rose and Mickey's "when the Doctor's away, let's have an adventure" recklessness. Maybe they're all in Faerie and this episode is but a dream.
I had the same thoughts and so have always had a love/hate relationship with this episode due to his callous treatment of Mickey and of Rose, in particular; he was only able to get back to them due to a fluke; He thought he was stuck there and seemed perfectly happy to abandon Rose immediately after telling her he would never abandon her and her in particular. But I did like their post-video discussion about the mind meld and how it would have affected the Doctor...
@@sallyatticum Yes, the discussion was fascinating. Really gave you some viewpoint on what the heck the Doctor could be thinking. It might feel better with a different companion. It is always kind of funny when I think about all the people the Doctor tries to get to travel with them and how that would have gone. If Sarah Jane had accepted in the last episode, she would have been onboard for this. If the Doctor had waited for Reinette to get her bag, what would that have been? -- especially if Sarah Jane was already on board.
I had always assumed that Rose could use the Tardis to get back home. But now I'm finding out that only the Doctor can actually "drive" the Tardis. If that's true the doctor made a terrible decision to leave MIcky and Rose stranded. Defintely not cool.
@@Syntell He always chooses to save people and doesn't always have or follow a plan. At that moment Reinette (and the other courtiers) needed saving so he did that. He would've figured out how to save Rose and Mickey after that I'm sure. I could add to that to explain, but "spoilers"
24:30 I mean, all it takes for that to happen is one neurodivergent captain with a special interest in pre-revolutionary france. It's not that far fetched. People today name things after greek gods and philosophers and heroes and that was thousands of years ago.
24:43 People can only really be extraordinary while history is relatively small. If humanity is to expand into hundreds of thousands of worlds, there could be hundreds of thousands of extraordinary people but because there are so many, they become more ordinary. There will of course be local heroes but the humanity-wide heroes are likely to remain those from the time when humanity is relatively small.
There is a cruise ship called the Nefertiti (Egyptian queen lived 3,400 years ago). I assumed French history just came back into fashion 3000 years later. Also I think it mentioned the robots are dressed that way as cover.
Yes, it definitely said that they were dressed that way as camouflage! And I don't think the ship even had clockwork robots until it down and created them as part of its attempt to repair itself.
The idea that today we wouldn't find it odd to name a ship after an Egyptian queen from thousands of years ago is just what I was thinking! But I didn't know a specific example like that.
the costumes, acting and everything is top notch in this ep, except for the writing. Doctor would never leave rose on her own with no way of getting back. we saw as much in badwolf.
Well the ship being named that isnt unually. Could be aomeone just liked the name. Or they really like that paet of history The ship could be apart of a company that has many ships named after all sort of historical important/famous people. It just be a person or a group of people who like 18th century history and wanting to relive some of it in there time. Like some cosplay group with a lot of money
I can't wait for these guys to get to Martha and Donna and River... why can't we have doctor who content daily 😅 Okay, they're only humans and they don't have a tardis, I'll wait and try being patient 🤐
@@Syntell looked it up to remind myself - they were together for a couple years. Then eventually David also met his wife on the show later on. They’ve been married for 13 years and I believe they’ve got 5 kids now :)
@@Syntell mostly the doctor acting out of character, not caring about Rose and Mickey almost getting killed (its played for laughs but it's weird), proudly snogging a girl he saw being a little child two minutes ago in general just does not deserve the hype it gets imo
Mickey trying to make Rose jealous of Mme. de Pompadour and say the Doctor has a pattern. All we're given is a short exchange, but it says a lot. Rose: Cleopatra! He mentioned her once! Mickey: Yeah, but he called her Cleo!
One of the cleverest things about this episode is that it follows a story in which the Doctor tries to explain to Rose how vulnerable he is when he forms a close relationship with an ephemeral life form such as a human, because their lives are so fleeting - and then, in this story, we get a glimpse of what such a fleeting life span might look like from the Doctor's perspective. It makes the Doctor seem even braver that he is willing to open his "hearts" to such beings, knowing how quickly he will be faced with their loss. Even so, he continues to do it, as the pain accumulates in him.
It would be the equivalent of us falling in love with a May Fly.
@@Syntell Yeah, you guys really are Whovians now :)
Yes, it does show how his affections lead to loss, over and over and over again, because they must, yet still he allows himself to go through it. It also shows why he is so lonely, as his loves flicker and die around him all the time.
@@Syntell Yes, but now imagine that you live in a world where mayflies are the only things you can love, because all humans and animals with longer life spans have gone extinct.
Yet the poor sod literally put hearts in quotation marks, as if his love and generosity doesn't extend far past the normal amount of most humans. Two hearts. One brain. No wonder he literally can't keep himself together.@@Syntell
The ship was named after her as she was a famous figure from earth history.... her brain wasn't ready because they are simple robots and in their logic they were waiting for her brain to be the same age as the ship (since it was built)...
110% :)
Sigh. Rarely does anyone agree with me. But it is what it is. The thing that bothers me about this episode though is we see too little of Reinette’s actual varying accomplishments. Moffat was asked to write a story about a famous historical woman, and it’s really conveniently more about the future. In this episode, she’s really someone that could be replaced with many female leaders. Why HER? What is so special about Reinette in history? It can’t just be about names on a ship. That ignores her true worth and why it was there. The Doctor speeds through her accomplishments as if Moffat was annoyed he even had to mention them. The ship could be called “R2D2” and then they’d run and find him. It’s so easy to give her a bit more to do. Show her in her element. Not fighting aliens, accomplishing normal life. Especially Sophie Myles who has phenomenal presence. Personally I found it absurd that he would willingly leave Rose behind without a plan to get back. It’s weirdly dismissive of the lead female character. He talks about just an episode before of how different Rose is. He says he isn’t going to just abandon her. But I could gel with 90% of the episode. Just if you’re going to bother writing about a famous female leader, show her normal accomplishments. Not just the excitement.
@IslesYankeeLady sorry, couldn't disagree more... the whole reason the ship was named after her was BECAUSE of her accomplishments... its a 45 minute sci fi show, it's meant to have pace and grip the audience... you can't have long periods listing accomplishments whenever a historical figure pops up...! Unless your specifically interested in that figure it'll be boring, people will lose interest... an episode has to "flow" organically, that's why in movies, occasionally quite relevant plot points are left out (for the directors cut usually)... the narrative has to flow... even the greatest writers would struggle to fit in the many and eclectic successes the madam achieved in her short life, whilst making it punchy and exciting... for me the balance is fine... it Hooked me enough to look her up for more info... don't forget it's not the discovery channel, just a kids sci fi show.... I agree about abandoning rose but upon thinking about it, he could easily find a version of the tardis and hop a lift back to the space ship as he would remember the many places he'd visited in past lives (there was even an actual French revolution episode set just a few years later)... he could be back on the ship within minutes of roses time....
“No, you’re not keeping the horse!” “I let you keep Mickey, now go!”
🤣
21:19, David Tennant knocked it out the park on this one. Tom Baker's 4th Doctor used to do monologues about how lonely his existence is. But with this one you can feel it.
Immortality, or what we think that is for the doctor, almost seems like a curse.
@@Syntell This gets returned to.
@@SyntellYes, for other Timelords, but the Doctor has been going through bodies like his whole life has been spent at Mardis Gras. The other Time Lords, when they existed, were functionaly immortal. Yeah, they would die at some point, but were incredibly hard to kill for good.
David Tennant's Doctor is truly the first where you feel the weight he carries. That constant weight of being the only one of his kind in the entire universe, whose immortal nature means he has far more goodbyes than hellos, and never a forever. The only constant in his life is that he will always be alone. You'll find out if you keep watching the next few seasons exactly why he is so alone and how it adds to his grief and guilt. Tennant conveys so much of that without saying a word.
One of the best stand-alone episodes in the whole series imo 👌
We enjoyed it a lot more than we though.
Really cool discussion at the end, too. I hadn't thought of the parallel of the ship being damaged/lost and Renet being sick/lost.
Also loved that yall picked up on the connection to last episode with how rose is coming to terms with the fact that the doctor has had many companions.
In the end, I think her jealousy turned into pity for the doctor; always alone and constantly saying goodbye. "Are you alright?" "I'm always alright" 🥲
@@rominasarmadi8278 Yes, one of the best episodes ever.👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
David and Sophia were actually an item for a few years before he met his future wife Georgia. So the chemistry between them here is very real.
I think you will find this explanation for the ships name from part of a review will help you ;
"The clockwork droids were trying to recreate the ship as efficiently as possible, and since they’re not Doctor Who’s smartest villain, they look to the spacecraft’s namesake for inspiration. The ship is named in honour of Madame de Pompadour, which leads the droids to believe that she’s the only body capable of powering it. However, their portals weren’t exactly accurate and they found themselves split along her time stream. They wanted to kill their target at exactly age 37 because their ship was the same age and they believed that her body would need to be of the same maturity to be compatible.
Specifically, the clockwork droids needed Madame de Pompadour’s brain to power their computer."
Seriously my favorite episode of Dr. Who. It's fun, funny, whimsical and beautiful, and bittersweet. A perfectly contained story, beautifully told and gorgeously acted. Every member of the cast killed it.
Yeah, definitely in my top 3. Madame De Pompadour is one of the most important, accomplished and influential women in history, certainly worth naming something after, just like you might name a space shuttle 'Columbus'. Although this episode would always be good because of the clever writing, it's Sophia Myles's performance that lifts it to such heights for me - she portrays the charismatic Renette beautifully.
Yes! Love this episode. I gotta ask though, what are the other two in your top three?
@@btggaming624 Thanks for the reply. Good timing with where you're at on TH-cam, because 'Blink' is, and always will be, my favourite episode. Great writing and acting - TV heaven. Carey Mulligan wonderful, and of course she's gone on to be Oscar nominated 3 times, and won many other awards. My other top three episode, you haven't watched yet (at least on TH-cam), so I don't want to pre-praise in case it affects your expectations. I'll comment when you get there. It's actually a bit wrong for me to say top three, we all do it, but with Doctor Who I have more like a top 40, or 50, and you've still got so many great episodes to come.
For context on royal marriage from times past, most marriages were arranged between royal families to protect the bloodline but kings were almost expected to have mistresses. English (and Scottish) King Charles II was succeeded by his brother James as Charles, whilst he had many children by his many mistresses, never had any legitimate heirs with his wife. Also ships being named after historical figures is not unknown in sci-fi, many of the Earth ships in 90's show Babylon 5 were named after ancient Greeks (Alexander, Agamemnon, Hercules, etc). Love your reactions fellas, and this episode always makes this soft old git in his 50's tear up, especially when the Doctor reads the letter at the end. And you're "quite right", the wide shot of the Doctor alone in the empty console room is a fantastic metaphor for how lonely he truly is.
Our servers at the phone company I worked for were all named after Egyptian gods.
This episode has always been a fave of mine! I absolutely love the 10th Doctor. He's always been my favorite!
He's growing on me rather quickly.
This here is a top 5 episode in the whole series probably my third favourite
I agree. This was a legendary episode.
Easily one of the best episodes of this season and tbh the whole series really. David Tennant’s charm and charisma ( not to mention his good looks lol ) are really on display here. I’m really loving y’all’s reactions to this wonderful show!
Thank you for watching with us ❤️
One of my all time favorite episodes. The writing, the music, the chemistry, it’s so tragically beautiful. A big part of me wishes that Rinette had gotten a chance to go on one trip before she died but I suppose it wouldn’t have been nearly as impactful.
This is where Doctor Who enters the realms of Surrealist poetry and it reminds me of such series as Tales From Europe, which had such fairy tale gems as The Singing Ringing tree and The Tinder Box. This series was broadcast during myself and the writer's - Steven Moffat's - childhood and more than likely impacted upon his imagination as it did mine. Dark European fairy tales that were presented in illustrated books by Arthur Rackham or Heath Robinson.
There’s a symmetry here between Renette and Princess Diana. Both were commoners and both were popular with the public and disliked by their respective Royals. The only difference being is that Diana married her prince (now the King of England) and Renette didn’t. Although Rose did make the comment that Renette was the equivalent of Camilla (who was Prince Charles’ mistress whilst he was married to Diana) so there’s another connection there.
Glad you both enjoyed this episode. Steven Moffat, the writer, won a Hugo award (I believe), for this episode, and you can understand why. Having said that, his single episode in season 3, is probably the best Who story he’s ever written (and he wrote some bangers when he was show runner as well), so the best is yet to come from him.
Sorry - not related to this DW story, but Diana wasn't a commoner - she was a member of the British aristocracy as the daughter of Earl Spencer.
I love this episode. I didn't catch before the relationship between the ship degrading and her illness, so you're making me look at a new dimension to the symmetry of the story. You'd think the most memorable thing is the horse through the mirror, but for me it is her walking into the Doctor's mind and seeing who he really is. That was really well written and acted and just makes the heartbreak later all the more powerful. David plays sad to the point of crying but not crying really really well.
I never looked up imdb scores for Doctor WHO before, I just like what I like, so glad to see this one got the props it deserves. However, looking at it now, there are higher scored episodes to come. Lots over 8 and 9. Very few dip below 7.
It's hard getting over an 8 on IMDB. Those are the projects I really pay attention too. It's not always correct, but more times than not it's spot on.
@@Syntell The highest I saw was 9.8, the lowest 4.2, and having seen both, yeah, it is spot on. 😅
Episode 4 is usually the episode that got girls hooked on David Tennant. Season 2 really is that season. Lotta great one offs.
Loving it so far.
That piece of history because the robots took the name of the ship literally and searched for the time she existed.
This is the First Episode of Doctor Who I ever watched, and it's still one of my all time favorites!
This is a great episode to start with.
🤔
Then again, maybe not due to some of the missing context.
Something that will become apparent very quickly is that Stephen Moffat episodes are some of the best in the entire show. It's not a coincidence that he became showrunner. Brilliant writer
lol my man the Doctor said it "she's one of the most accomplished women in history, the uncrowned queen of France" there's millions of ships named after her and there will be millions more for generations to come
Maybe whoever named the ship was a fan of Mme. du Pompadour, her artwork, or related to her in some way. Perhaps it was a royal person or the paramour of a future ruler or this is future France or a planet that had some French immigrants back in the day. A connection to the Doctor could be interesting, though, since we know there are sometimes little changes in time because of him.
I think your idea of the ship being somehow connected to the star she picks (but never gets to tell him) is very interesting.
i agree with all of this. I desperately want some type of connection too.
i think it’s simply that the crew on the ship admired her as a historical figure as to why they named the vessel after her. like how people name their boats.
I can see that. Maybe I'm reading too much into it
I love this episode. Goes back to the original intention of the show to include historical events and people, honors a truly amazing woman, and shows the vulnerability of The Doctor.
And the line "I'm always alright" takes on more and more meaning as time goes on.
When the Doctor talks about August of 1727 being rubbish, there are a few things he may be referring to, but the biggest of them is a volcanic eruption that cropped up earlier in the year. Volcanic eruptions have a tendency to play merry havoc with global weather patterns, so he was likely referring to some amount of unseasonable weather for the middle of august.
17:22 there’s an episode a long way from where you are now in the show that I can’t wait for you to see where he takes the long way around to his destination.
Great reaction as usual.
Every time he went back to the ship, a long time passed. He should have waited for her to pack the bag.
That part 👆🏾
One of my favorite "Doctor Who" episodes!!!!!! I couldn't wait until you got to it!!!! If the Patreon people haven't told you, I'll let my fellow commentators tell you about *Tennant's* love life here :) (Dude was a big player back in the day, without a TARDIS ;)).
What's up OG triple OG.
Yeah, we liked this one more than we thought. Right in the heart strings.
Somebody posted the other day that Reinette doesn't get Rose. The monsters aren't the price Rose pays to be with the Doctor. The monsters are part of the attraction of being with the Doctor.
Now that's interesting.
This episode won the 2007 Hugo Award for Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form. Hugos are/were considered one of the best awards ceremony in the writing media world (last few years notwithstanding impo).
David Tennant and Sophia (pronounced "fie" rather than "fee" in this case) Myles were a couple for a while after this. He later meets the woman he will marry on another episode. (I don't think that's a spoiler.) Myles went on to the one-series vampire private eye show, _Moonlight,_ as well as _Underworld._
Oh... This may be one of my favorite episodes, as it has one of my favorite names of the Doctor
From the time of classic Who, The Doctor has always been a traveller who shows up when there is trouble. Trouble doesn't come to people because they will meet him. Also, things are always named after historical figures, a couple of millennia from now, I'm shore Americans will still be naming things after Lincoln because he was a major historical figure.
August 1727 was a crop failure for France resulting in mild famine. It also saw the births of two French princesses and the death of one of France’s most popular generals.
However, other than that, not that eventful. Certainly not really noteworthy and Paris was MOSTLY unaffected by the famine itself so… Yeah.
Though The Doctor said it was a bit rubbish, perhaps he was implying boring. 1727 as a year is kind of boring overall.
Additional information:
France at the point in history being looked is partway through a century of war with the British.
From 1702 to 1815 France was involved in:
The War of Spanish Succession,
The War of Austrian Succession,
The Carnatic War,
The Seven Years War,
The American Revolution,
The French Revolutionary Wars,
And the Napoleonic Wars.
This series of devastating wars leaves France heavily in debt and starving by the time of the French Revolution. At the point this episode is set, we are just approaching and by the end have reached the War of Austrian Succession.
France is careening towards total disaster and the nobility are trying desperately to ignore the warning signs.
Now that's a whole lot going on.
Also, when she died, the doctor isn't allowed to go back on his own timeline so he couldn't just use the tardis to go back 2 years or so....if u remember the very 1st episode, he explained he can see everything and can feel different strands of timelines ... sometimes he CAN go back and change things and he can see it won't mess things up in future... however many times, it is a fixed moment in time that HAS to happen (like the destruction if his people) and he must not, MUST NOT! Try to change things, the consequences will be dire..... just wait and see...
Well not so much "not allowed" now that there are no more Time Lords enforcing such things, only that to do so could cause dangerous paradoxes (as seen in Father's Day).
(Plus it'd make for a plot device that'd basically make every story redundant!)
I notice the Doctor doesn't say he snogged Mme. de Pompadour when Rose asks what he's been doing.
Interesting discussion at the end! Lot of good comments too.
Thanks for staying until the end.
@@Syntell Oh, yeah, I always do. :)
This was a great discussion. I have always had a sort of love/hate relationship with this episode, but this discussion made me think about things in a different way and I can sort of appreciate it more. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing!
Who, seems to have a way of making you look at things from all sorts of angles.
I think this is the first time I see reactors who know that "dance" is actually a euphemism.
Actually Rose and Mickey couldn't operate the TARDIS even if they tried the only reason Rose could do it before was because of the Bad Wolf power that was ultimately killing her it's always been stated ever since Classic Who only the Doctor or a Time Lord can operate the TARDIS so without the Doctor Rose and Mickey would be stuck.
Ok, I wasn't exactly sure about that.
At this point in the future there’s probably more spaceships than sense out there, there’d probably be a Spacey McSpaceship and all sorts, why wouldn’t there be a fleet of ships named after french aristocrats?
Amazing reaction. Such a great episode. Among the top of doctor who episodes (Nu who) id say.
Thank you for spending your time with us.
Loving the reaction the best is yet to come
Now you've dipped your toe into English entertainment, you'll LOVE Red Dwarf. No.1 Sci-fi/comedy of all time.
I'd say the Sci-Fi comedy award goes to Hitch-Hikers Guide To The Galaxy, but RD is pretty good.
@@ftumschkYes, HHGTTG is fantastic. But so few episodes. I've read the book, hear the audio, watched the tv, seen the film (shudders) and seen it live with some of the original cast. That's what BBC should do next, remake it, but properly, and ALL of it!
@@user-up5rv4zk3e :)
That's how life works sometimes. Love this one.
My fav Moffat episode
Y'know, as much of a romp as this episode is, now that I think about it, I don't really know what's going on underneath. At least not social commentary wise. I think it's just about the adventure and analysing the Doctor's character. With a bit of a history lesson in their too.
Outside of the themes, why name the ship after a woman from 3000 years ago...?
Well, assumably they've got good record keeping in the future. And they had to name it after someone.
Maybe the captain was a huge hipster who went for a deep cut of history.
I mean anyone who staffs their ship with clockwork robots is being a bit extra.
I will point out Rose's last attempt to fly the Tardis required a winch and a construction vehicle and then nearly resulted in Rose's death and did result in the regeneration of the Doctor. So I think "can't fly the Tardis without the Doctor" is fairly valid😅
“Oh look at what the cAt dragged in. The incoming storm.” Is so funny to me.
Great reaction guys, hi from England.....All TARDIS are meant to be flown by 6 time lords,. It's all Timey Wimey
Why not name the ship Madame de Pompadour? We have names from mythology that we are familiar with, Odysseus, Heracles, or Poseidon for example or historical figures like Hypatia or Alexander. Someone's fancy dictated that they named the ship Madame de Pompadour. Uranus has moons named after characters from Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream - for instance, Puck, Titania and Oberon. What reason in a name? Either lineal familiarity or just plain really like it . . except Pooky Dot the Seventeenth has to be a bit stretching it painful!
I was with you up until you said Pooky Dot 🤣
@@Syntell So I'm a Surrealist! I've got to put something in there that will turn it all upside down! 🤪
Sophia Myles was David Tennant’s real girlfriend at the time.
This episode is beloved, but it hits a bit odd coming after the episode where Rose is upset (and jealous) at a previous companion and the Doctor all but declares his love for her (he always stumbles on that word, but how are we to take his talk of humans dying and "someone you . . ."?).
As you mention, Rose had come round to Sarah Jane coming along but was unhappy about Mickey doing so. (That could be an essay by itself -- which ex to you prefer being around all the time? -- I know at the time companions weren't romantic prospects, but in the last episode it seemed like there were "feelings.")
This episode he seems happy to abandon Rose (and Mickey, who has just risked coming with them) in space. I guess the TARDIS could get them home, but it still seems reckless. He's also willing to abandon Rose to take the slow path with Mme. de Pompadour. A bit fickle, Doctor. (Also, doesn't he know she will die without growing old, so that's a few years, at best?) One could argue that it could have consequences if she died early (so could it if she stayed with the Doctor or went away with him). I will say that he did seem happy when the clock worked, though.
I kind of like Rose and Mickey's "when the Doctor's away, let's have an adventure" recklessness. Maybe they're all in Faerie and this episode is but a dream.
I had the same thoughts and so have always had a love/hate relationship with this episode due to his callous treatment of Mickey and of Rose, in particular; he was only able to get back to them due to a fluke; He thought he was stuck there and seemed perfectly happy to abandon Rose immediately after telling her he would never abandon her and her in particular. But I did like their post-video discussion about the mind meld and how it would have affected the Doctor...
@@sallyatticum Yes, the discussion was fascinating. Really gave you some viewpoint on what the heck the Doctor could be thinking. It might feel better with a different companion. It is always kind of funny when I think about all the people the Doctor tries to get to travel with them and how that would have gone. If Sarah Jane had accepted in the last episode, she would have been onboard for this. If the Doctor had waited for Reinette to get her bag, what would that have been? -- especially if Sarah Jane was already on board.
I had always assumed that Rose could use the Tardis to get back home. But now I'm finding out that only the Doctor can actually "drive" the Tardis. If that's true the doctor made a terrible decision to leave MIcky and Rose stranded. Defintely not cool.
@@Syntell He always chooses to save people and doesn't always have or follow a plan. At that moment Reinette (and the other courtiers) needed saving so he did that. He would've figured out how to save Rose and Mickey after that I'm sure. I could add to that to explain, but "spoilers"
Oh IMDb agrees I see 👍🏾
24:30 I mean, all it takes for that to happen is one neurodivergent captain with a special interest in pre-revolutionary france. It's not that far fetched. People today name things after greek gods and philosophers and heroes and that was thousands of years ago.
It had a sister ship named the SS Marie Antoinette.
One of my favourite episodes!
24:43 People can only really be extraordinary while history is relatively small. If humanity is to expand into hundreds of thousands of worlds, there could be hundreds of thousands of extraordinary people but because there are so many, they become more ordinary. There will of course be local heroes but the humanity-wide heroes are likely to remain those from the time when humanity is relatively small.
solid breakdowns keep pushing forward
Nefertiti, Cleopatra, Boudicca…lots of names survive through history just like Madame de Pompadour
two hearts = endurance
There is a cruise ship called the Nefertiti (Egyptian queen lived 3,400 years ago). I assumed French history just came back into fashion 3000 years later. Also I think it mentioned the robots are dressed that way as cover.
💯
Yes, it definitely said that they were dressed that way as camouflage! And I don't think the ship even had clockwork robots until it down and created them as part of its attempt to repair itself.
The idea that today we wouldn't find it odd to name a ship after an Egyptian queen from thousands of years ago is just what I was thinking! But I didn't know a specific example like that.
the costumes, acting and everything is top notch in this ep, except for the writing. Doctor would never leave rose on her own with no way of getting back. we saw as much in badwolf.
Funny how it's only just occurred to me how Moffatt re-uses a motif of this episode later on. I'll say no more on that for now.
Love the in depth discussion.
Black History Month should be Black History Year.
What I don't get is he could go back in time and get her without crossing his own timeline.
Well the ship being named that isnt unually.
Could be aomeone just liked the name.
Or they really like that paet of history
The ship could be apart of a company that has many ships named after all sort of historical important/famous people.
It just be a person or a group of people who like 18th century history and wanting to relive some of it in there time. Like some cosplay group with a lot of money
I can't wait for these guys to get to Martha and Donna and River... why can't we have doctor who content daily 😅 Okay, they're only humans and they don't have a tardis, I'll wait and try being patient 🤐
😅
It warms our heart to know that you all enjoy the content. So much more to come. Thank you for watching.
Yep, they're gonna get there! They are gonna *laugh* during the Donna season...!!!
@@IsiahBradley I can already see Donna's gonna be a favourite !
@@vrindam1247 :)
@vrindam That's à spoilers mate. They have said repeatedly no spoilers or anything mention beyond the episodes.
Steven Moffat seems to think about sex a lot, so it makes sense he would name a ship after a French mistress.
He kind of told on himself 🤣
Why name the ship after her? Why not? And the Doctor listed a bunch of things she was first in.
That's true. I think I just wanted a deeper connection to the name and the ship. It was still cool though.
Pretty sure David and the actress that played Madam De Pompadour in this episode dated in real life for a while
Really? Now that's interesting.
@@Syntell it definitely explains the chemistry hehe
@@Syntell looked it up to remind myself - they were together for a couple years. Then eventually David also met his wife on the show later on. They’ve been married for 13 years and I believe they’ve got 5 kids now :)
I liked this well enough but it never hit the mark for me like it does for most other people.
25:00 Because no one wants to see the Doctor kiss JFK.
Black folk were all over France at that time. More rights that in England too.
youve got cowboys in here hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha i enjoy your reactions exccept that fake belly laugh
❤
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
AI sucks, huh? ;) lol
this episode is so overrated. it's not terrible but not great at all
What made this episode disapointing for you?
@@Syntell Yeah, I wanna know, too!
@@Syntell mostly the doctor acting out of character, not caring about Rose and Mickey almost getting killed (its played for laughs but it's weird), proudly snogging a girl he saw being a little child two minutes ago
in general just does not deserve the hype it gets imo
@@contra3486 For me, the story being told, the atmosphere, and the imagination and quality of the writing more than compensate for any deficiencies.
@@contra3486 I don't fully disagree, but I respect your view.
Mickey trying to make Rose jealous of Mme. de Pompadour and say the Doctor has a pattern. All we're given is a short exchange, but it says a lot.
Rose: Cleopatra! He mentioned her once!
Mickey: Yeah, but he called her Cleo!
This here is a top 5 episode out of the whole series probably my third favourite
It’s so overrated nearly every other Moffat story is better
This here is a top 5 episode out of the whole series probably my third favourite
Yeah, I think we get the point. Thank you...
@@thepandorica1660 my bad my phone buggin jhee