“Small Makers” Are Lying To You, And Etsy Doesn’t Care | Woodworking Rants
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Artists that I bought the poster from: / @ssavaart
Just a word of caution. Many Etsy sellers have seen their successful items copied by Chinese companies, that mass produce it and sell it at a very low price, which cannot be matched if you produce it in the US. So, if you see someone selling at a much higher price, it might be that they produced the original product and cannot match the price of the knockoff. Maybe one should keep that in mind.
This is a very good point and something that makes sniffing out scammers a lot harder, because you don't want to incorrectly condemn someone who maybe had their work ripped off. One thing I did notice is that ppl who do sell these scam products tend to have everything they sell be some sort of knock off, so if you check out their store and can't find one original thing, it's more than likely that they're the scammer and not a victim. But the downside of that is... who has the time to look up each item in order to give someone the benefit of the doubt? I'll pin this comment just because I think you made a point that's another important piece of the puzzle
And China doesn't honor trademark laws, copyright, or any artist's intellectual property. There are no consequences for them.
You could go by the earliest listing date among the two or three sites. So if the Etsy one was in January 2023 and the Ali one is like last week, likely the Etsy artist was cloned.
Been going on for a long, long time... about 15 years ago, I was in the Finnish design center store in Helsinki, and watched these chinese "tourists" walking around, and taking pictures of items... okay, a snapshot..but, no, they would take up to 5 or 6 shots, different angles, things open and closed.
Here's these unique items, often innovative, often beautiful, about to become something sold in thousands, without a Euro going to the creators!
I worked for a quite large company, with development and manufacturing in PRC, and too often, someone in customs, or the shipping company, opened packages with prototypes, or design studies, and a cheap look-alike showed up for sale as soon as we released the new product, at 1/4 the price (and performance!), but looking enough like the real thing to give the buyers "status" of having the newest...
Yeah the knock offs that I notice most are the ones where they use a picture of a product that ought to cost hundreds of dollars but then their product simply isn't what's in the photo. This may be because I don't spend enough time in the space to have the literacy that op does.
I just wanted to thank you for the extremely kind words about me and my art and for purchasing my poster. I can't wait to see it framed.
♥
Aaah!! Can't believe you saw this! You are so welcome!
its an amazing piece, i also love the trans badge on the girl❤️
Your style is dope AF!
@@gayasslily cool! i just learned something. :)
@@gayasslily Yeah nothing like having a sexualized troon on your wall
As a previous Etsy seller of Wall Decals (all original designs by me), I had my designs along with MY original photos stolen and sold on Amazon, Ali Express, Etc. I do know some Etsy sellers are deceiving customers about the items being 'handmade', BUT many Etsy sellers are being ripped off - so keep that in mind when you see the exact same photo on other sites.
Exactly what I thought. I know crochet and knit pattern makers who have been through this - the etsy shop is usually the genuine maker.
This is a good point. Someone else pointed it out and I pinned their comments so that others would be aware of it too. The unfortunate thing is, it's hard to know who the original artist in this situation is and a lot of times you can't tell from the pictures unless you buy both and then compare the quality
Yep, that’s why I don’t buy certain items on Amazon or AliExpress and if I find something that I really really must have I do a google picture search of the item and then follow the bread crumbs to see if it leads me to the original source. If it does not then I pass up on it as in most cases I have found the same thing with the same picture on over 10-20 sites which 15 of them I had no idea they even existed.
It’s the price that gives it away most of the time.
@@woodificould sounds like a good idea for a video. Is there a handmade version. Might help genuine creators who have had their work stolen too.
@@woodificould
It would be great if someone made a new site for makers to sell their honestly handmade crafts.... But with a twist:
Each Item on the site will have to be submitted for approval (and pass) in order for the listing to go live.
Each item should have a minimum required amount of pics submitted, the pics will be used to reference the items to see if they're copies or reseller merch.
If they are, the item gets denied. Too many denials, then that seller account is restricted from selling.
If the item passes approval, then it should receive a "Verified Original Product" stamp on the product page, and it would be seen when showing up in search engines.
Even with patents or copyright, it might not be possible to prevent having products copied, but can block it from happening on this new site.
And you could keep out the resellers too (they plague enough sites as it is)!
Idk, I thought it sounded like a good enough idea to share and maybe someone could pull it off or keep sharing the idea out, but I don't have the knowledge or resources to do it myself...
Otherwise, I would if I could.
I worked in a frame shop for over a decade. Some observations:
One note of caution about using the used plexiglass to glaze your artwork: it's probably not UV-protected, which means that whatever is behind it will be affected by sunlight and bright artificial lights. Original watercolors especially are very prone to fading!! If you have the opportunity, I highly recommend finding a source for uv-protected glass, and swapping that into your frame- especially for the family original. It will protect it much better in the long-run! The bright, vibrant colors of the saavaart print will also benefit from UV protection; wouldn't want those colors to fade!
Also, I'm concerned about the paper being in direct contact with the glazing. A mat around the picture, or invisible plastic spacers around the edges, can help hold the paper away from the glass, so that in case of any moisture or anything, the paper won't stick to the glass, won't get trapped with mold or fungus or anything; it promotes air flow.
An acid-free backing board will also help make sure it lasts a good long time. Regular masonite (which it looks like is what you used?) is not acid-free; it can leech acidic compounds into the back of the watercolor paper, causing yellowing and other damage. Acid-free mat board, or other substrate, will help protect it long-term.
All of these are added expenses to what seems on the surface to be a simple thing. But they're all about protecting your artwork for the future. Especially with originals, I always persuaded my customers to do what they could afford to protect their pieces, rather than just settle for the cheapest minimum.
I know at least the plexiglass equivalents sold here in Sweden in the big stores generally come with UV protection.
@@martinsv9183 True, but this was an old piece of plexiglass from some discarded sign. No way of knowing its level of UV protection; I would lean toward none, in this case. Or, at least, not knowing, it's safer to not assume yes, if you don't know.
There is definitely plexiglass that can be easily bought that does have UV protection built in, and is labeled as such. Without the label, it's difficult to know. (Also, because it was scratched, she did a lot of sanding and re-finishing, which may or may not have disturbed any UV coating that may or may not have been present... Just- a lot of unknown variables.)
I TOTALLY get using what you have, and I'm all for re-using and recycling as much as possible. I try to do that in my work and my life as much as possible. I just mentioned about original artwork and UV and acid protection; depends on your plans for the future of this piece.
What great advice! Thank you!! I once purchased an original Japanese WWII era silk painting at a yard sale. It was in a rough frame. I had it professionally reframed by someone who did all that you recommended. Before it was finished, I got to see it un-framed. The vibrancy of the colors along the edges of the artwork where the old frame had covered it was astounding! The piece was still beautiful, but a pale version of its former self. It had some historical significance, too with proof of its provenance. Very sad.
Thank you for posting this. As a watercolor and sumi-e artist, I was very concerned for that artists work. For me, each piece is like one of my babies going to a home where it will be loved and appreciated, but I don't sell or even give them away without proper framing. I know that's not feasible for most, but not doing so just feels like dumping a pet on a sidewalk when you don't want it anymore. 😢
My partner is an art conservator, and she would agree with all of your points
As a small maker I had a someone purchase one of my products and copy it. He also used my photos to sell them on Etsy. The thing is he is selling them for more than I am on Etsy. When I reached out to him he said "do you have a patent on it?". Yeah as a small maker I got a patent on my $25.00 product.
I hate people like this.
I have (actually, *had*) a trademarked company name for a small enterprise my family was trying to build back in 2008-2009. One day I got a letter from a Vietnamese company asking permission to use the same name "only in our local markets" because the trademark search they were required to do showed that I had already trademarked the name. I told them that I definitely did NOT give them permission... and a few weeks later I got a letter from their "legal department" telling me they had decided to use the name anyway. They knew full well that it was extremely unlikely that I'd be able to mount a legal challenge so they really didn't give a damn. The only satisfaction I got was to see them go under a bit less than two years later, but now there's stuff wandering around the Far East with *my* trademarked name on it that I get zero money from and that's likely to be picked up & abused by some other fly-by-night thief who figures, "I want it therefore I can use it." Patents, trademarks, and copyrights do NOT matter to these people.
I don’t sell anything on the internet. I don’t even have any social media accounts, and never have. I have a website and word of mouth. Almost 100% local, aside from a company in PA that we made 500 parts for and some family out of state. I’ve been in business for over 3 years, full time. I always laugh when people ask me if I sell on Etsy…
you've got IP rights, submitt a dmca claim and take the listing down.
Watermark a copyright notice into your photos. You likely can't do anything about copying the product. In a free market economy, there really ought to be few instances where a product receives that kind of protection to avoid monopolies. If my neighbour builds a better product than I do, my choices are either to get better, more efficient or work with that neigbour. If this dude is using your photos, that is a copyright breach his ass is grass and you're the lawnmower...
If the person used your image without your consent, then that is intellectual property theft. Just because you put an image on social media it does not mean that anyone can use your image for profit. You do have every legal right to obtain compensation from any person who uses your image without your consent and then profits from that use.
etsy are 100% complicit in this. the people in charge know exactly what is happening. they could do something about it, but it would cost them some money and being a platform for scammers is profitable.
over the years there have been many attempts at building a better art and craft selling platform, some of them were decent but none of the lasted. would be brilliant to have an alternative, some actual competition to keep them honest. but makers need to start posting 'proof' videos and pictures with their listings. there are people that will pay more for the real thing, but you have to make it easy for them to know what they are paying for.
Maybe a community-driven platform, so it's not running for better profits? Like it's not hard to make a marketplace, but to make it famous and trustworthy is. But if TH-cam makers collaborate to advertise it for free, then it might be a way for cheap yet successful marketing.
Also being community driven saves money on added cost. Keeping a niche site working isn't that pricey.
But developing a moderation strategy would be the most challenging part. Maybe being the first one of posting a video of making the thing to proof your authenticity. So the platform could have an open register of all these videos. With an easy way for a member to call out for violation.
What do you think Etsy could do to fix this? I ask because you say that they could stop it, but how to do that in practice doesn't seem obvious to me.
The vast (>90%) of consumers don't care about "original". They just want a product fit for purpose. If it wasn't for cheap knock-offs, most people couldn't afford anything nice.
@@Austin1990 There are a couple things they could do: reverse image searches against Amazon, Temu, and Ali Express for new products listings; a verification system of sorts for "trusted" sellers; flag accounts that sell a wide variety of goods across disciplines, etc... These are things they could do with the existing platform, and they really only need to deprioritize accounts that engage in these practices in search results. Of course once these scammers have targeted a platform its next to impossible to completely shake them off. That's not say Etsy shouldn't try, which seems to be their current attitude.
When I started finding the exact same festival belt-bags being sold by twenty different people, I knew Etsy no longer required products to be hand made. The business has also started screwing over small businesses by putting holds on their earned money, and blocking their use of their sites so the creators can't contact their buyers to explain the situation. I was going to open an Etsy store, but the more I learn, the more reasons I have to just avoid them at all costs.
My brother and his wife did just what you are talking about. My brother would copy an expensive wallet made in Italy and have them made in China. His wife would buy baby clothes in bulk from China and sew on a flower and call it hand made, both items were made in China. I couldn't believe it when he told me that because I had been making slumped bottles, glasses from bottles, and other wood products such as custom cutting boards and engravings, and making pennies while he was supporting his family by lying to Etsy and saying his stuff was hand made.
Because people like that are not creators. They don't take pride in making things. They are only interested in making money and doing so the easy way. Tells you a lot about people's personal ethics and lack of conscience.
Disgusting. I would not be able to live with myself if i did that, I have way to much empathy to do such an atrocious thing. You should mock him for it til he stops doing such scam, exploiting. Or so I would. I hope you can make enough money of your HONEST work compared to his dishonest inhuman exploitation. Sorry I just get really frustrated with this topic. Take care of yourself out there ❤
This is part of why I support universal basic income initiatives, they scam people for a living, if they didn't need to earn the money that way, then they wouldn't have as much a need to be scammers. Additionally it wouldn't take anything away from you being able to make as many beautiful products as you wish :)
Yep and he is the problem. This is not just a problem on Esty. This is also a problem in the craft sale market. I have a number of times loudly called out people for selling stuff make in china. I mean they left the lables on it. Stood there for over an hour telling people you could buy the same product on Amazon for 1/4 of the price. They did not care because they knew that once I left they would sell more crap.
The same thing happens at "farmers markets" People selling stuff bought from walmart. I mean these people showed up in a car with walmart bags and unloaded their wares and sold them as farm grown in a matter of an hour or 2 and away they went. They likely made more in those 2 hours than they would have all week.
This is a problem and stupid people fall for it. I shamed several people. Including the damn fool who brought a box trailer and sold watermelons on the street for 3 times the price where the store just one block over sold the exact same one from the same supplier. I mean same pallet box and everything.
People need to stand up to these people. If I catch that guy in town this year I am going to try and run him out of town if I have to stand on the public sidewalk all day telling people to go to the local store.
These side gigs and get rich schemas hurt more people than you think.
I quit making stuff because it blew my mind that my 10s of thousands of investment in tools and supplies were being outsold by stuff bought in bulk off amazon, ebay and else where.
@@kameljoe21 ...and one day those people are walking thru Walmart and spot their "handmade" item and realise they got ripped off. "Those markets are a scam! I'm never going back and I'm telling all my FB friends too!"
The genuine makers get screwed over again.
You can't prevent it. You can't sue. You can't compete. You can't get Etsy to care. You can have the shop taken down and products perhaps removed, but these sellers reappear under a new name and continue their crap. So very sad.
Yeah, it's really unfortunate :( That's why I feel like the best approach is consumer awareness messages, so that people can hopefully know what to look for and then make the decision themselves with all the information
You can 100% sue if someone steals your work. Getting Etsy to act might require a class action lawsuit but whatever.
@@jaredgarbo3679 If the person/company resides in another country, which it most likely does, then that lawsuit will never happen.
@@jaredgarbo3679 a lawsuit can be filed providing your work is properly registered. Courts will not hear your case unless you do.
@@jaredgarbo3679 forget a class action. Never happen.
This is the reason I left Etsy a few years ago. It got to the point that shops like you were talking about and blatant resellers were pretty much taking over and pushing out those of us who actually do our own work. I used to do pretty well when things were just the small makers but lately it's gotten really bad.
It shows Etsy has ceased to look at the applications to sell on the site! When I last looked the form wanted a lot of good info that one simply didn’t have if you weren’t making the items…..I was simply adding value so stopped applying. These folk shouldn’t get on the site to then scam buyers!
Bob
England
Yes, I used to have a shop on Etsy as well and left for the same reason.
I used to shop on Etsy a lot, ten years ago. That's when the crap started showing up. I reported it in the beginning but Etsy did nothing. The crap is still there, taking over, so I left. Please leave links to good artisan websites so I can continue buying from small makers!
Is there a good alternative? I opened an Etsy shop in August and haven't gotten any traffic or sales. Should I just make my own website?
Thank you so much for making this video! We are a nonprofit that advocates for Etsy sellers, and this is one of the main areas we are working on! We are currently supporting legislation in the US to help with this problem! I would love to talk to you more about our work and how we are fighting these problems on Etsy.
Subscribing because of this video. I have an Etsy store and we actually MAKE the things we sell and are now a “needle in a haystack” because Etsy won’t properly curate their sellers. PLUS, they keep running up their fees for less benefit and profit than before. Add that to this economic apocalypse we’re experiencing and it has all the makings for a personal financial disaster. I quit a job at Apple to pursue this because it was doing so well in 2019 and 2020…now, it’s anemic at best from Etsy. I make content here as well but I’m not pretty so the growth here is steady but slow at best…lol. And, oh yeh, make the second frame video…lol.
Ooof, that sucks to hear even more so because you left a job to pursue a passion (which I think is a dream for most people) and then that happened. Keep going though. Growth on YT is weird and you never know what's going to take off. I just checked out your channel and subscribed. Good luck!
Wow...thanks so much! @@woodificould
I've done the same. Will probably binge your videos soon.
As an aside, wtf is "pretty" anyway?
People flippantly bandy about the quote *_"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder",_* whether they believe it or not is anybody's guess.
I tend to believe, because "perfection" is a myth, it's in the imperfections that true beauty resides. This is how you can know someone or something is real.
TH-cam is apparently in its Authenticity Era, seeing a resurgence in authentic content being sought after by viewers, instead of over-edited, clickbaity, sensationalism, and I'm so here for it!
I'm wishing the best of luck to all of you struggling artists, may you all find your authentic niche! 🥰
@@NightsReignso very true. I have clicked on the don’t recommend option so many times now, lol but for some reason YT has started recommending things that I watched last year and I know it because of the little red line which tells you how much of the video that you have watched is either halfway or fully across 😹😹
@@rolandgdeandon’t give up, I have a friend who had been plodding a long when 2 years ago she put out a video and it went viral over night, she still gets the giggles when she logs in and sees how many have subscribed since that one video.
I have such a wide interests and hobbies and it’s intriguing at how many followers I see on so many different YT channels popping up in the chats who I have seen on many of my other subscribed listings of YT.
As long as it’s interesting and the passion that you hold for what your putting up, it will draw in others, slow yes but it just takes one lucky brake to just tip you over that see-saw affect for good. So as “WoodifIcould” said don’t give up you never know where that twist is going to happen.
I’m still wondering why “Wood if I could” was placed in my recommended listing😹😹😹I’m not sure if it was the subject line that caught my eye or the thumbnail. Either way it’s those little twists that makes all the difference.
And yes going by your thumbnails I too sub’ed and when I have 5 minutes as they say I can go in and peek at your past videos just as I sub’ed to “woodificould” as well.
One tip don’t chase the algorithm’s just work on what your passionate for and let the algorithm do it’s own thing. 🤗🤗🤗
As the owner of a small (my wife and I) custom wood and metal shop, THANK YOU! Thank you for taking the time to produce this excellent video and opening our eyes to these bastards. On a different note...great job on your frame! I just subscribed!
I'd be grateful for a frame making video. This video is the first time I'd heard of shared workshop space. I didn't know that was a thing. I've now found a local maker space in my town, which is very exciting. Frames are one of the banes of my existence. I have so much art, but frames are outrageously expensive. Even the cheap ones are pricey. It would be great to be able to make my own.
You got it! They are way trickier than I expected, but I think once you do it once it becomes easier (at least I hope so... I'll find out soon, lol)
First off, the frame she made here is awesome! And I appreciate her skills.
And - another option is to find good frames at thrift stores - for the frame moulding stock. Buy one that is larger than you need, cut down the lengths with a miter saw, and re-join the corners.
(If you like painted frames rather than stained wood, ignore the color and go for the profiles you prefer.)
You'll need a couple of corner vises, and either be very good with brad nails or get some specialty corner fasteners.
(I worked in a frame store in the past.) If you can handle wood, it is nice how good the results are.
Definitely use wood glue and a putty that covers the corner cuts.
Make the inside measurements 1/8" longer than the glass to allow for humidity changes.
Good luck!
re: the shared workspace. I paused the video to look at the shop. I said to myself that is a REALLY nice shop, a professional shop. As I watched her work I saw some rookie mistakes (no offense intended, but she herself pointed out a couple), and I asked myself, how did a rookie get such nice digs. Later in the video I realize it was a shared workspace. I wish I had that when I started! @woodificould, I trust you really appreciate the privilege of have such a great workspace early in your journey.
I recently wrote a lot about this in my final project for my masters. I love that you have offered some ways to help people avoid these drop shippers
It would be nice to have you take us through your process for the next frame. This one turned out lovely. Thanks for sharing the things you found on the internet. Sad facts indeed.
Thank you so much. A few ppl said they would like to see the mistakes I made with this one, so when I make the next one, I'll make sure to talk about what I messed up the first time
@@woodificould I would love to see a video with discussion about the process too!
It's sad to see that Etsy have allowed this practice to proliferate on their site and take away so much from the original purpose of the site. I guess they have no incentive to cut down on it as they'll take a heft slice from each sale. Just hope the wider consumer community realizes Etsy is no longer what they think it is. Shame on Etsy!
Yeah, I really hope they start cracking down on this stuff :/
@@woodificould wouldn’t hold your breath. Money talks. They’re making big dough.
Know of any new “Etsy” sites that are like old Etsy?
@@WalterMelons none yet, its hard to get established when etsy still has a lot of small sellers and agressively advertises.
I think they wont stop until it becomes general knowledge or they get sued and lose badly for false advertising.
You can shame on them all you want but they've become what every other corporation is nowadays--driven by greed and profits.
@@mrskwrl It's not even "greed and profits" generally that's the issue here. It's when a company pursues short term profits at all cost, even when those profits endanger the long term viability (and profits) of the company in a much bigger way. I do hope someone who has some power at etsy recognizes that if this is left unchecked for too long, it will KILL the company in the long term.
As an artist on Etsy I concur, this issue and the abuse of POD has made Etsy no longer a good place for hand made items, for the seller or the buyer. I'm closing my shop there soon.
That sucks to hear and you're not the first person that I hear this from :( Hopefully you can continue to sell at maker's markets and maybe even start your own website? Luckily that process has become easier over the last few years so that's a bit of hope on the horizon
@@woodificould the problem with making your own website is you also have to bring your own traffic, so not a viable option for me, I have no traffic to bring. I'll continue to list on ebay since it's free but ever since AI exploded sales have tanked there as well. Not a good time to be a "pro" artist, luckily I don't need the income from it.
I agree with you on the POD shops that are taking over Etsy. It's easy money for zero effort and filling the site with sub standard mass produced items (shirts, mugs) with art work the sellers claim is their own. In reality they are using chat GPT, AI to create the "artwork". It's lazy and not even appealing in many cases. I know my opinions are controversial but I don't believe that typing prompts into a computer program is creating art. I feel for the artists who spent decades honing their skills and taking 100 hours to paint a piece, then having to compete with this fake art.
It sadly isn't anything new. You saw this happen with basically every new craft. From turned pens, to handmade knives, etc. I used to see it years ago out at the fleamarkets, I would always walk around and when I saw a small maker I'd usually stop and chat for awhile. One day I was talking to this guy about his stuff, lots of wooden trinkets and cutting boards, for probably a half hour. Real nice guy. Nothing clued me in that HE wasn't the maker, but at some point I just asked a question where he was like, Oh, no, we have a shop down in X Central American country where they make these for us, no way we could afford to make them here and sell them. I'll give him credit he didn't try to lie about that, but if I didn't realize it for a half hour of talking, I'm willing to bet most his customers would have just assumed it was his stuff as well.
This is apparently a huge problem with Diné and other tribal garb, jewelry, and other crafts at flea markets.
Passed off as being produced by the local tribe(s), so tourists and whatnot are more willing to pay a higher price.
Sometimes, they'll even take the time to remove the "Made in China" labels beforehand...
All you have to do to figure out flea markets is watch them unpack when they're setting up in the morning, or pack up at the end of the day - all the stuff comes in boxes with Chinese writing on it - directly from Alibaba in most cases. I've never trusted that anything at flea markets is made by local people - it's all mass produced trinkets made somewhere where labor is basically free.
Brilliant video , there is a great difference between copying someone's idea and just plain old cheating by buying something and selling it on as yours , thank you so so much for the video as it helps people so much as there are a lot of scammers out there doing what you were talking about , i never think anything i make is good enough to sell so just give it to family and friends all of which say that i should start selling what i make , so maybe on day i will , thanks for the video and please make many more , another frame video would be great , stay safe .
A lot of really good makers that I know feel the exact same way, so just know that you're not alone with that. Solid chance that your work is way better than you think, and you're just being overly critical. But in any case, making things for loved ones is the most fun, so nothing wrong with that. Thanks a lot for your encouragement!
Thank you for this. As an Etsy maker, I know most of the cause of my lack of success rests with me, but sometimes I look to see what others are selling and see things that I wouldn't be able to ship for the sell price. Now I know one reason why. Beautiful frames by the way.
Thank you so much!
The Chinese government also subsidizes shipping to foreign countries. In some cases, the shipper pays pennies. Their theory that any foreign money coming into the country is good for their economy. When you're talking about hundreds of millions of items sold to other countries, even small profits add up to billions. The Chinese shipping warehouses put Amazon to shame. They are massive, automated concerns. When I think about me, carefully wrapping my item in tissue paper, putting it in a custom box and enclosing a hand signed thank-you card, vs armies of workers throwing items onto conveyor belts, it's almost hilarious.
@@Automedon2 You're right. I ordered kayak seats from Amazon. They were shipped from Kentucky to California via UPS. The two seats, including shipping were $90. I checked to see what it would cost to ship using Etsy shipping and it was over $60. We are subsidizing Amazon and Walmart and all the other big shippers. One of the places where I lose the most is in packaging, both the time and the materials, mostly time. I was a packaging designer in another life and I take a lot of care in making sure my product arrives safely and looks like I care. There's a huge price cut when you can buy boxes and cushions in bulk. I'm going to redesign my shop around using one or two box sizes and minimizing shipping costs. Otherwise, it's not worth the trouble.
Came for the frame, stayed for the rant. Well said. Etsy has been giving off icky vibes for a while now, kind of forcing me to shop handmade at a more local level.
I’d watch another frame video. Need the research for a frame build video I’m thinking about doing.
Subscribed--because I really appreciate the 'rant' over the top of building a project. This is a great 2-for-1 approach, and your dialogue is informative and relevant. Looking forward to whatever's next.
Hah, thanks! Was wondering how well the rant was going to go with the building video. Glad it hit home for some people
Same
Definitely not redundant. I would love to watch a video where you talk about the build process .
Good to know. Thank you!
My gripe about Etsy is the prevalence of sellers claiming items are handmade or from a specific country and it simply isnt true. Im not on Etsy myself but know of several sellers who are doing just that with products they bought from me on other platforms! They didnt handmake them, neither did I. I feel bad for buyers being misled by these descriptions thinking they are getting an artisan item when its just off the shelf.
My favorite thing to collect are hand crafted knives and it’s insane how many knives are listed as “hand-crafted and folded” knives out there. 98% of the knives on Etsy are also sold on Amazon or Walmart. It’s hard to find small foundries, but they are out there. It’s just so important to be a savvy consumer and seek out small producers.
Your frame turned out beautiful. Good effort for your first one. And I would love to see another frame making video. As a creative type myself I love to watch other makers at work. As for the Etsy issue, they have let things slide for so long I don't think they know how to fix it. They are letting people deceive buyers. I have a Etsy shop in the vintage sector. The rules for vintage is the items have to be more than 20 years old. There are plenty of sellers flouting this rule, selling items that are five or ten years old. Etsy doesn't care, they don't question anything. Their only concern is keeping the shareholders happy and increasing revenue. It's sad to see what the site has become and I wish someone would start a similar site that actually cares about quality products and protecting sellers.
Fact of life: Etsy is a publicly-traded company. It is, therefore, beholden to shareholders, not to makers.
I feel like that business approach only works well short term. The only way the shareholders make money is if customers continue to buy off etsy. If they lose trust in the platform and go elsewhere, the whole business will lose money. So focusing on the makers is still in their best interest
@@woodificould venture capitalists and most CEOs don’t care about the long term viability of the business. They want to extract as much profits as possible short term with no regard for the people that get chewed up in the process. If the business ends up failing they jump on something else leaving the empty husk behind.
Thank you for shinig a light on this important topic!
But I am more impressed by the fact, that you wear PPE at all times in your process!
That is something a lot of makers overlook.
Thank you! I was really surprised when I got a few comments from ppl saying they refused to follow me cuz I was wearing PPE (I believe one guy called it "idiotic" 😂). I felt like that was a weird thing to be hung up on
As an artist and maker of things myself, I've often thought about starting up some kind of Etsy or other seller. But horror stories like what you shared have kept me back. It's frustrating to have the skills and talent to make things that others might want (though the ol' impostor syndrome often tries to convince me otherwise), but not having the tech' savvy and financial savvy to build a business model. Sites like Etsy were SUPPOSED to be about providing a platform for people exactly like us, but the bad actors swarmed in and ruined it. It's difficult to know who to trust! So many artists like me are frustrated, living in the shadows of the world, our artistic visions unseen; our artistic impulses thwarted and stifled. It's a major bummer.
Hi! When I see that offer on Etsy and I have an aliexpress link I always report it to etsy via report button and send a link to Chinese store with exactly the same thing. It worked many times :)
Can you report if you don't buy?? I didn't know that. I thought you could only report if you bought from them. This is good to know
As someone who has a smal maker with her own brick and mortar shop as a partner, this video was greatly appreciated!
The Etsy thing is not new. Its been a 'thing' at craft shows and flea markets, farmers markets etc forever. You can kind of spot the things bought from china if you look closely. Problem with etsy is you cant see items directly, you depend on pictures.
Definitely. Not being able to see the item in person just makes it so much easier to pass it off as quality
You're correct it has. I've seen numerous people do this. In fact there was a reporter that did a story about this at Farmers markets.
@@AndyMorrisArt I saw that one about the farmer's market too!
I bought a giraffe poster on Etsy for $32 for my daughter’s room. A couple weeks later, I saw the exact same poster for $4 on Temu. 😩
Aw damn :( If it makes you feel better, it's also possible that you bought from an original artist and Temu just stole from them
this is the exact reason I completely stopped using Etsy I watched my significant other buy a bunch of stuff and it was just people reselling even a rather large TH-camrs wife was accused of doing this and was selling stuff they got online and I don't think they even turn accountability at the end
Well, not only did I appreciate hearing about Etsy - I am one of those who prefers putting money into the pockets of small businesses. But I also really enjoyed just watching you make a frame while sipping my morning coffee. I for one would watch a video where you make a frame for the other beautiful picture too. And I agree, they are both beautiful pictures.
I suggest to show the interesting parts of the process, like buffing the acrylic. Many knows how to cut miters (and yes, make the same mistakes of cutting them on the wrong side). But not many knows that you actually can save the scratched acrylic. You can also show the mistakes you did and fixes/prevention. Very helpful
Agreed. I will definitely post the acrylic video separately from the frame one, just because I want it to be easily searchable. I feel like knowing that it can be salvaged is pretty useful (at least it was for me)
Everyone is so desperate to make a living that scruples are a thing of the past. The working class need to stick together and support each other in their creative endeavors. This is a labor issue. Excellent story telling.
I know someone that does this. Sells 'custom handmade furniture'. His stuff is ridiculously overpriced. It's all shipped in several times a week via UPS from vietnam. All he does is assemble it and slap on paint and stain. He uses stock photos too. It drives me INSANE.
That would drive me absolutely crazy too.This is why I now favor the makers that also have videos of them making their stuff. Which is an unfortunate thing to expect a maker to have to do, since that means they also have to be a content creator on top of everything, but if that's what it takes to prove legitimacy...
OH he has videos...of him using sprayers. I snapped a photo one day of the boxes piled high in the uncovered outdoors waiting for him to return from holiday, and it's unfinished furniture made in Vietnam that anyone can purchase from WALMART!@@woodificould
As someone who has been a big supporter of Etsy for 10yrs, I thank you for saying something.
Had this happen to me. I made leatherwork, mostly steampunk stuff. In the end, I burned out and stopped making, because nobody would pay a decent price since they could get it from China for cheap.
Should've just bought an octopus & stuck a cog on it. 😉 That seemed to be like 99% of all steampunk stuff on etsy at one point I swear.
I think we may be entering a renaissance regarding our relationship to quality vs quantity, due in no small part to all of the fast-fashion scandals lately.
Do you still have all the necessary tooling and tanning equipment?
I'd imagine there's currently a decent market for commissioning such craftswomanship for renfaires and steampunk cons at the very least.
I'm only aware of TeslaCon in the immediate future, but they're getting to be more and more regular.
I could be wrong, and often am, but if it's something you're passionate about and take pride in the quality of your work, buried underneath all of the #choosingbeggars are people actually willing and able to compensate.
As someone who finally sold my first item on Etsy; I know all too well just how difficult it is to make any money on that platform. I run a laser engraving business and there are so many others doing the same thing. Once my shop is fully set up and running; I'm going to make a website to sell my products directly. I just hope that I'm not too late to the laser engraving party to not make money.
Great video! The frame looks like it came out just fine. While I wouldn't mind a tutorial; I kind of want another rant from you, lol.
"... Etsy Doesn’t Care ..." -- You are absolutely 100% correct. This is not new though. It has been going on / happening for years. The ONLY thing that Etsy cares about is the 'Almighty Dollar'. Also, since Etsy redefined the definition "handmade", unfortunately, the majority of items sold on Etsy are now not truly totally handmade. There is another site out there that cares and has better control of what constitutes handmade, but, since it is a newer site, it does not have the traction that Etsy does, so your sales will not be as good.
“Another site out there” named?
@@spencerjoplin2885 GoImagine
Folksy?
Dude. Name the site fer cryin out loud, like comeon!!
@@user-yi3yx2fn7g Try reading my reply to @spencerjoplin2885
I completely agree. I have noticed Etsy becoming flooded with "makers" that I'm not sure are really makers. Some possibly are, but it is challenging to tell. It makes me very sad as someone who wants to support small makers and loved the intention of Etsy with its creation. Thank you for creating a video to open up this topic for conversation!
I just found your channel! For the next frame, I recommend a tutorial but also make it bigger than the image so you can put a mat in. It'll help protect the artwork by keeping it from touching the glass/acrylic (sometimes they stick to the image underneath)
I did wonder if I should do that for this frame too, I just couldn't decide on a mat color so I opted out
@@woodificould I used to work at Michael's and they had a framing department. White or off-white is almost always a good choice.
Thank you for the Etsy, et al, information. Good to know. I have suspected this over the recent years. Using image searches helps a great deal. As for your question about a video about framing. What I would like to see is how you buff the acrylic. I usually use "vergin" acrylic or very good used acrylic sheets. I leave the scratched ones for other projects that does not require perfect sheets.
The frame came out looking good! I could watch another detailed framing video. As for the other thing, some good tips for navigating online marketplaces.
Thank you so much!
Hi you a right in what you say. The Small Makers That a Lying To Us Need To Be Reported & need to Be STOPED .Iam Right Be Hindyou Keep up The Good Work.
Thanks for the info. I’ve been thinking about starting a side hustle and selling on Etsy. It’s been overwhelming how much extra you have to know for the business side of being a maker.
It really is, but if it's a somewhat reasonable startup cost for what you plan on selling, I think it's worth trying out. I just recommend making your social media presence strong because the site is pretty saturated now and you have to break through all the noise. At least that's what I think in my non-professional opinion
That's consistent with what I've heard from other makers - sell it with social media (whichever one or ones work for you.) The Etsy shop is just a convenient starter storefront that many people are already comfortable to purchase through. Most also advise opening an independent storefront as soon as you're able since you can both keep more of your sale price and it can't easily be taken from you but Etsy can close your shop anytime they see fit.
I gave up my stained glass business because no one wanted to pay me for my effort. 5$ for a small peace was the best I could get. That did not even pay for the glass.
Yeah, that seems to be a trend... if you want to sell, you have to lower your prices to match the drop-shippers, which ends up not being worth it
I technically have an Etsy shop and mean to sell from it. I tried to sell at a so called craft show in the 90’s but couldn’t compete with all the fake handmade crap then either. It’s been going on forever. I also came for the rant but liked the frame too so please make another video.
Oh damn, I didn't realize it's been going on for that long. I thought this was relatively new, with the rise of the fast fashion apps. *sigh*
I've run into some of those people before. One was on Reddit in an astronomy sub (I think, may have been the space sub), talking about these RGB LED moons and planets someone had in an image they posted. One person popped in and said they made them and linked their Etsy store. Red flags instantly went up for me, I immediately had a hunch of what was going on. So I looked, because I also have one of those RGB LED moons (purchased off Amazon), and I wanted to see if there was any difference. They were the exact same items, only much more expensive ($10-15 on Amazon and this person was selling them for four to five times more). I replied to the person and said that the same could be bought other places for cheaper, and he made this big ordeal about how his were hand made and of higher quality than the other stuff out there. But it was the exact same product, identical in every way.
no, it was the same images. not the same product. people clone your shit, jank your images and undersell you. and then opinions like this form, they harden and propagate and that's how the original maker is frustrated out of creating stuff for almost 5 years.
What people don’t understand is that ripoffs sellers also steal the photos of the original items.
Bernadette Banner made a video about it a few years ago: “Buying a knockoff of my own dress”.
@@insantonua They were very much *not* the same images. Thank you for jumping to conclusions. This person claimed to be 3d printing them with FDM printers, but they were clearly not 3d printed.
The difference between the maker pricing from his online shop and his Etsy shop is about 30% because that's the cut Esty will take from the total sale. So if you can buy from his own page plz do it. It helps us a lot, and in the end we don't even make more money, but you will save a lot.
So remember to look for the maker's real shop at the bottom of his page.
100%! I came across quite a few shops that use Etsy to get their name out there and then use that to promote their own shop. I always go to their shop to buy
Etsy doesn't care about small makers. Their "homemade" label isn't policed because Etsy makes money on those who re-sell items.
When Etsy went public, it took a nose dive. Chinese knockoffs and outright counterfit items are rampant on Etsy, Ebay, and Amazon. Especially Amazon. It's disgusting. Thank you for shining a light on this. Peace.
yeah ever since everything became a "marketplace" where everybody could just insert their stuff without any curation quality is basically impossible to find on those sites.
i think it really went south when they took on the disgraced former ceo of ebay. Silverman has been trying to turn etsy into ebay v2 ever since. And while its been good for shareholders the hand made small sellers have been getting crowded out.
Bought a cutting block from Slovenia a few years ago. It is wonderful. Recently bought a Peruvian apple cactus on Etsy for new house. What they sent was nowhere near the species. Still disgusted over the $13 purchase.
Make another frame video. The process does look simple, but since I have never made my own frame, I am interested in learning what to do and what mistakes to look out for. So maybe include mistakes you made on this one as examples, or talk about the mistakes as you are making the second one. For example you said you cut the miters wrong on this one, so when cutting the miters on the next, maybe talk about what you did on this one and ways to avoid them.
Thanks for the ETSY rant. It explains things I have seen on other marketplace websites.
Thanks for the input! I'll look for some more material and make another one, since a few ppl seem to think it would be worthwhile. And I'd definitely talk about all the mistakes I made the first time... as embarrassing as they were, lol
Wow, that was really refreshingly different. There are already so many videos about picture frames, but I think using a project visually and talking about socially critical things at the same time is a really great concept. Of course not always, sometimes you want to know why you are building something this way or that way, but like every now and then.
I left a subscription straight away.
Many greetings from Germany.
I like to make my own candles for my family and recently put some up on Etsy to see what would happen. After hearing this, I feel pretty discouraged knowing that someone could just steal my ideas. That said, it feels like a reason why it's important to have a good relationship with the relators to validate where your custom goods are coming from. I hope more consumers take the time to do so and Etsy pays more attention to these scams in the future.
My girlfriend closed her Etsy shop and she does just craft shows and a few local farmers market's. She does really well for herself and enjoys the person to person contact.
Made any sales yet? :)
I 100% agree with you. But it goes *way* deeper. There are original artists and small shop owners in China listing their products on the international market, such as Etsy or Amazon. Then, scammers/bootleggers grab the listings wholesale, then copy or source a similar item, along with the original listing, sometimes forging authenticity/cert/authenticity paperwork, and then outting that all up on other sites. Listings I found included handmade jewelry, wood cut figurines, specialized fittings for food production, video game mods, and furniture.
Worse, it's often these sellers that have the highest sales rates. That means thousands of people are walking around with identical, mass produced, products, which even at the listed prices is cheap in comparison to the cost of real hand made products!
I dont know if it happens on etsy, but on Amazon you'll sometimes find the same item "spot" gets swapped out so the purchases and reviews get stacked up on the same link but for different items (sometimes close similar but sometimes quite different), that way it looks like the item or seller is more legit than they actually might be.
I came for the Etsy talk - thank you for letting us know
Of course! Thank you for watching
Thanks for the heads up on this type of scam. I'll watch anything you put on your channel, so yes to your next frame build...
I really appreciate that. Thank you
I had no idea! Thanks for explaining this!
The irony here is how many "financial" YT accounts point people to creating drop-shipping accounts to become rich.
Ooooh yeah. And they also sell courses on how to do it through YT ads. The funny thing is, if any of them actually made money doing these things, they wouldn't be talking about it as loudly as they do, because who would want to over-saturate their own market?
Please do the frame again with instruction. Would love it.
Btw, love your Be Careful Dance! I love the channel, just found it. Love you too!
As a knife maker I have been the bearer of bad news to customers showing me "custom" knives they have. People at trade shows or gun shows do the same thing buying Chinese junk and selling to customers as handmade. Thanks for shining light on the issue.
Nice work!
As someone who decided to try starting a print-on-demand t-shirt shop on Etsy this year... Etsy absolutely does not care about helping new shops, and unless you are producing something that looks like everyone else's designs I absolutely do not think Etsy is worth the hassle. I can't lay all the blame on Etsy for my frustrations as I could be doing more to help myself, but I have had way too many scammers contact me with fake purchases and I can't even contact Etsy themselves for support. My account was even suspended at one point with no attempt being made on Etsy's end to communicate with me why or how to fix whatever issue caused it (likely some completely arbitrary automatic process with no actual input from Etsy at all).
Etsy is apparently becoming just another retail website filled with junk and scammers, and I'll most likely be looking for another platform in the new year.
Regardless of all that though, nice frames, and thanks for sharing your learning process with us
Oh - and related...
"Farmers Markets" often don't have any farmers selling anything. People go to Costco or Sam's club, buy in bulk, and set up their tables with the stuff in baskets or whatever. Sometimes they will raid orchards or your front yard to steal fruit to sell.
You made a great point there is a promoted practice to buy rebrand and sell overpriced cheaply made goods, however there is other side of the counterfeit industry. Where someone copy the on line image of one product and make a cheaper low quality copy but sell it with the original image. What I mean is that finding the same image of a product doesn’t mean that the original is a cheap pice with a high is a complex problem.
This is very true, and a few other commenters brought it up. It's not uncommon for the fast fashion brands to rip off small makers and then undercut their prices by a lot. The part that sucks is, in that case it's hard to tell who the original maker is, so to be safe it's easiest to assume it's a scam. Which is obviously extremely unfair to the original small maker
Great video.
Really appreciate you doing all the leg work re. the Etsy scam.👍👍
As someone who does craft work this is great info.
Well done and thank you.
Never seen corners reinforced that way! I like that thank you !
I can’t believe Etsy isn’t booting these people off the site. As a seller myself, I hope they make a change.
They won't. Its been going on for years and if you speak out about it then they ban your account instead. It got better for a little while when they made their offshoot for wholesale supplies (as a way to try to appease makers - "look now you can buy your supplies here!") but then they decided to roll it back in to just etsy. There was a website mocking it because when it started it was mostly obvious in the steampunk community because it was getting more mainstream so it was basically lots of the exact same octopus with a cog stuck on it type things sold as "handmade" and "unique" with like 99+ in one listing and hundreds of other sellers selling the exact same "unique" item by the dozens too. But it rapidly spread to everything.
They won't. I started reporting these crap shops about ten years ago, when they started showing up. Etsy did nothing. They have allowed Etsy to become a new Ebay but more expensive.
Also "handmade" on Etsy means "I bought a laser engraver, and 'personalize' off the shelf items".
Found you through the algo. Love your perspective and thank you for bringing this to people's attention, including the extra considerations people have brought up in the comments. Cheers!
Thank you so much for talking about this issue. I went to Etsy to sell my handmade goods because that is what they were there for. The people making handmade items. However, when they changed their rules to include pre-made goods, they ruined the platform for the rest of us.
Yes, please! I would like to see you build the next frame with a running commentary. That said, I very much enjoyed this video! The combination of tutorial and rant was doubly informative. Very interesting. Thank you!
It's the first time I've seen more likes than subscribers. Nice video! I think it resonates with a lot of people, especially we fellow makers.
There's an old Portlandia thing about "put a bird on it". Etsy used to allow resale of wholesale goods if you modified it in some way. Then they got rid of even that most-basic requirement
Unfortunately I just stopped buying from Etsy except for a few niche items that I've had good experience with. Great video, thanks for your hard work.
i definitely had this happen with some techwear clothing, factory was stealing designs and then making the clothing with way cheaper material i even got two different pairs of pants from the same seller made out of different fabric. Thankfully i was able to return them.
Love the videos!
As a framer... That's a lovely frame for the pieces and I wish I had the time to make spline joints this pretty. As soon as I saw the acrylic I felt bad for you, because you love the artworks so much. I promise you that investing in some ArtGlass or similar ultra-clear low-reflection glass will be totally worth it, because unless it's going to fall down a lot the glass will last for a lifetime. If it is going to fall down a lot then ignore all this and stick with acrylic!
Such a good video and explainer (on both how to make a frame, and about the problem with Etsy). I used to love buying unique and handmade stuff from Etsy, and I'm pretty good at being able to spot a scammer, but I get exhausted when I'm looking for a genuine product and all I see in the search results are pages and pages of scammers. I mostly use Etsy now to buy crochet and sewing patterns that aren't on Ravelry or other sites, because they're much less likely to be copied by scammers and thieves.
I even briefly had my own store on there but the cost was so high for the small return on investment, even though I was selling on-demand printed apparel and accessories of my own art. It's far more stable to have my own website now, but for people who aren't web-design savvy it can be a hard ask to get them to set up their own websites and maintain their products.
My son had all his pet art work stolen and for sale elsewhere! Hundreds of hours of work! I wish you success on Etsy, you deserve it.
Another thing to note, when you here the buzzword "drop shipping" you are really hearing the correct name for this type of business practice, except instead of buying items to stock and ship to you like a store, they go one step further and just order it for you from the third party site with your shipping information to send to you.
Most of the sellers you listed in the video are drop shippers, which is why they don't retake photos. They never even touch the product, they just order it for you from the third party site.
I watched your vid because the title made me curious. However, I enjoyed watching you make this frame while I listened as I am in the process of making frames myself for holiday decorating at home. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and process.
Thank you so much! Always curious about feedback on my format. Good luck with your frames!
I clicked on your video because of the title. I enjoyed watching it and will have to watch others you have made. I am interested in seeing a video of how you made the picture frame, it is something that I have been meaning to do. Thanks for sharing this.
Thank you so much!! I'll make another frame video with steps. There are definitely other makes out there that have amazing frame videos, but it always helps to have multiple references for these things
I used to have a Etsy page for my leather working, and was getting sales on it for the first while. Once the the mass produced crap and resellers started showing up, my sales and pager views nose dived. I kept the page up for another year but eventually just closed it.
Please walk us through the process of your next frame. Your commentary is on point and very engaging.
Thank you for taking the time to provide such a thorough and caring explanation of this problem. Know your makers.
Also, I thank you VERY much for dropping the link to the artist. That poster is appealing and gorgeous and I'm definitely getting one.
My intro to your channel and I loved it! I would definitely enjoy another frame making video with commentary on the frame-making process.
Hi.
Thanks for the video.
Informative, and a nice frame.
I'm a picture framer.
I've seen plenty of videos where makers make frames, but ignore some basics of how to protect art when framing.
Could you please mention to:
make sure to make the inside of the frame 1/8" larger than the art to account for movement of materisls.
Not put photos or pastels directly against the glass, as that can ruin the art in the long run.
Either use no adhesive, use minimal adhesive (hinge the art to the backer or a mat), or use complete adhesive (drymount).
Attaching the art on 4 sides, but not the middle will cause the art to expand in the middle causing ripples.
Thanks again
This has been an issue for years and honestly it actually is the first thing - people buying wholesale and then selling individually. Its just that etsy started off as somewhere where only handmade (by one person, they would ban people using too many people to make a product even if it was a two person job to make a thing) items could be sold. As a result the wholesalers had to claim the items were handmade to get around etsy's listing rules, pricing to match the "handmade" nature. It was a major issue a while back where people reporting these shops had their own accounts banned for "badmouthing" and the sellers of the cheap tat because they reported it via the forums. But there was nowhere else to make a report & emails got ignored or accounts banned. Turns out etsy was perfectly happy to allow the non-handmade sellers to stay because what they had was scale & so they could earn etsy more money. A lot of makers back then left etsy for this reason - failure to protect those who truly were small businesses. Now the vast majority of stuff on etsy is just from wholesalers.
Amazon does this to sellers on their own storefront too and turns a blind eye to copied goods. It's rampant in ecommerce.
I worked in custom framing for a decade and watching you pull that giant piece of used scrap acrylic out triggered some PTSD of having to buff and clean, buff and clean, buff and clean.
I saw this the very first time I went shopping on ETSY. I was looking for candleholders.... i saw the exact same ones over and over, at wildly different prices
I’ve narrowly avoided and then reported multiple fraudulent “handmade” items and months later, they’re still up. I wish Etsy cared.
Yes please on another frame instructional video! Thank you.
I had a leather crafter business and I saw so many “handmade” leather goods that were clearly mass produced overseas and marked up for resale. Tack on the increased fees that Etsy has charged sellers and I quit selling on the platform. The fees ate up much of my profit.