If you read an actual Indigenous American story you will be bawling your eyes out. Cause in reality the Indigenous always lost. Land was taken, culture was destroyed, languages were killed. It's all extremely depressing. Just go read anything by Richard Wagamese you'll be sad for months.
Yeah, they did always lose. I love this movie, especially knowing that the Natives always lost. Because I think most of us wish we could all just get along, and that whole nations didn't get decimated as they tend to in reality.
@@Nicetrybro563of course you think like this…trying to justify killing natives bc of things that you really don’t know the history of (based on this God awful comment)
@@Nicetrybro563 you really think you did something with this but truly you just are a god awful person…nothing you say justifies it…you just want a reaction and are acting like a child
There are NO mountains in virginia BEACH.....thats where they lived. Also, her name was MATOAKA and she was the first missing /exploited indigenous american
Hi, I actually have a lot of family that worked at the Jamestown museum and spent a good portion of my youth wandering through the place. She did not live where we would call Virginia Beach today
I'm so conflicted about all of this, because I'm Diné (Navajo) and I obviously know about the problematic nature of this film... But I still absolutely love this song. I know I shouldn't, but I do. 😭
Thank you for being vulnerable with this comment. I support you in your nuanced point of view! It helps reaffirm that people can like the film and acknowledge its shortcomings at the same time. 🌸
I’m a Native American and my tribes are Chickasaw, Choctaw, Seminole, & Mvskoke Creek from Oklahoma. My biggest problem with this movie is not that it was inaccurate, but every white person wanted to be Native. Before the movie, my friends, family, and other Natives were discriminated, ridiculed, targeted and people hated us. Now, they switch up and you see everyone claiming to be Cherokee and dressing like a “Indian princess” 🙄
Would you rather be hated or appreciated? Also, no, not every white person wanted to be native American, just like not every modern native American owns a casino.
When I was a kid and Pocahontas 2 came out, I remember being troubled by the story because it seemed so much more sad than the first movie. I asked my mom about it, and she explained to me that Pocahontas was based on a true story that was very different from the movie. That encouraged me from an early age to be sensitive to the fact that not all films are accurate representations of the stories they’re adapting, and ever since then I’ve loved contrasting them with their historical counterparts to give me a more well rounded perspective of both. I appreciate that this analysis acknowledges that although this movie has its blindspots, it doesn’t strip it of all its merits.
I loved that movie and its main character alot as a kid. I honestly kinda idolized this fictional version of Pocahontas. I remember trying to learn her way of sneaking low to the ground, refusing to wear shoes for an entire summer and trying to find a Kolibri to befriend (I failed miserably, since these beautiful birds aren't native to my region). Only much later I realized that this movie was a beautiful and problematic lie, misrepresenting the true history of Native Americans and further mystefying their cultures. I really wish they had done their due diligence in creating proper and respectful representation, hiring Natives to be part of the process in various ways. Young me would probably have fallen in love with that movie just as much if not more, without having to unlearn the stereotypes the Disney movie instilled in me years later.
1- "misrepresenting the true history" "problematic lie" yes its historical fiction the talking tree should have been a clue 2-" hiring Natives to be part of the process" he did say he talked to many of them
@@m.j.vazquez4720 You have no problem with aging up a 10 year old girl so that a problematic colonizer can boink them? In a double power trip? That's kinda sick, yo. That pedo there. Tbf, John Smith did the same thing in his account, but do you really want to support Pedo aspirations? I mean you can't even defend with "It was the times" because by the time he rolled around, the idea of someone like that taking a 10 year old was called sick by the end of Tudor England. But sure, if you're secretly a Prince Andrew or Harvey Weinstien keep peddling there is nothing problematic about aging up a PoC girl of 10 to be a love interest of an oppressor. I'm sure you'd be interested in stories like Madame Chrysanthemum and Madame Butterfly too which has similar issues.
Yeah, Pocahontas is a hard movie for me because I LOVE this movie. But I’ve also come to understand it’s basically historical fan fiction and they do take a lot of liberties if not throw in some stereotypes. I’ll give credit that they did TRY, and it was better than the native Americans in Peter Pan. (Actually using some language, dressing the tribes in different outfits instead of them all being the same, mentioning that they’re at war with some tribes and they’re not all buddy buddy like previously thought…) but there’s definitely some inaccuracies and those inaccuracies DO stick out like a sore thumb….and I feel bad for liking this movie knowing it’s a stereotype and not true to Pocahontas’ real story, but I just love the message and the music so much! Maybe if they had made up their own characters and not done it according to the Pocahontas fable, it would have eased the pain, but…I don’t know. I’m not native. I’m sure it doesn’t even remotely help.
@@m.j.vazquez4720 True, but to be fair I was six. And you can have magic in a movie without completely misrepresenting a whole group of people. Also talking to someone and actually hiring people to create an authentic story are two very different things
My favorite quote from the song was the eàrly line"But still I cannot see, if the savage one is me, how can there be so much that you don't know." As a kid I didn't get the nuisance of mountain voices or wind having color.
For me it'll always be the lines: You think you own whatever land you land on, The earth is just a dead thing you can claim, But I know every rock and tree and creature, Has a life, has a spirit, has a name
I always hated that movie. Why she wore a mini skirt and no moccasins is beyond me. We also didn't jump off of waterfalls like idiots. Not to mention how they completely changed her story and had so many bad stereotypes. My friend watched it with her daughter and she said she couldnt believe how many stereotypes it had in there. She said it was her favorite movie as a kid but never realized until she was an adult how bad it was.
1- one thats not a skirt its a dress and its not really that short second its a creative choice like jasmines outfit which was a combnation of belly dancer and the style of clothes girls in the 90s were wearing 2-" We also didn't jump off of waterfalls like idiots" i dont think the movie says they all did it it just says SHE did it ti get across her being more daring a good use of show dont tell 3-"changed her story " yes its historical fiction the talking tree should have been a clue
@@m.j.vazquez4720 historical fiction about a tragic indigenous woman who was stolen from her home and died at a very young age, all written by white people without input from members of her tribe. Just cos it's fiction doesn't mean it can't have real life impact. Pocahontas should have never been made and if it had to be, certainly not by the colonizers
@InternetIsWild She was a real person who had horrific things happend to her, then she was forced to convert to Christianity, her husband was killed and she was forced to marry John Rolfe then she was paraded around Europe like a carnival attraction where she died at yhe age of 22. Her life was stolen from her and Disney treated her with such disrespect. They should never have made that movie to begin with.
@@m.j.vazquez4720 I have yet to see an Indigenous tribe in this country who dressed like that. It wouldn't have been practical for women who worked outside to dress like that. She was a real persin and this movie was so innacurate and people that watched would be influenced by it and think that was how we really were when that isn't true.
@@turquesa_8056 1- "who dressed like that. " and ? 2-"wouldn't have been practical " and ? 3-"She was a real persin" and ? 4-"innacurate" the movie with the talking tree was innacurate you dont say lol 5- i really dont think the majority of people take the move with the talking tree to be be very historically acurate 6- did you even read my comment ? major points - historical fiction - talking tree
It's really a case where you see why people liked/admired Pocahontas at the time, but we really need more mainstream stories by Native American artists. Honestly, Disney should give a Native American creative team some time and money as compensation. Mythologising history and making it more appealing is universal and completely natural, but you really want people telling stories through their own history, especially when Native American history is so mythologisied and whitewashed, that's what ends up being taught in schools.
Problem is, not a lot of native Americans want to be animators or story tellers as a life time career. Disney can create a native American team, but you can't make a team without enough people representing the team. Lastly, if you want representation for your race, and demand it from another race, don't be surprised when it comes out inaccurate. If you want something done right, do it yourself, otherwise, be glad you got any representation at all.
This is why one day I’m gonna produce a graphic novel with mcs from my nation; because I’m kinda frustrated at the lack of representation that are written by indigenous people for indigenous people and wanna see that kinda stuff
@@Eosinophyllis that’s what you should do. You shouldn’t expect other races and cultures to represent your race and culture, then have surprise pickachu face when they get it wrong.
@@VulpinetideCuteTimes0w0 I think that's a bit unfair and untrue. I follow plenty of indigenous creatives on social media who work in the media industry. There's definitely talent out there. Also, there's a difference between representation which gets things wrong and perpetuating harmful stereotypes. Most people have some social responsibility not to do the latter even if they won't get things perfect
As a Chamorro (Pacific Islander), I sympathize with Native American people. We were also colonized by Europeans (Spanish), and were made to feel like we were the bad guys when _they_ were the ones that stopped our traditions and erased our history. I hope prosperity for you Native peoples. Fa'a'nau taimamalau (be fearless, be unashamed)
@@NotesNNotes yeah that's also true I'm just saying, almost every country in the global south has experienced and keeps experiencing the effects of European colonialism (and I'm sick of it btw)
There is so much wisdom in that, as a mexican (also enslaved by Europeans, also taught to forget our language and traditions, also had our wealth confiscated) this makes so much sense...fear and shame are how the Europeans keep you down, thank you.
I saw the title, and and it piqued my interest. I saw the creator name, and I clicked right away. I love your content and this was no exception. All that "work" to represent Native American culture and folklore, only to mostly fabricate the whole thing definitely made the movie all the more problematic. Thank you for making this video and enlightening me more.
People like you are the reason why we can't have great movies because you can't stop abusing the term "problematic" and move on with life. Get over it!
The idea for Pocahontas was dug up from the Disney vaults, and originally was going to be a more serious tale. But, as the OG idea came from an even older era and still from non-native writers, it wouldn't have been much better. I have always been interested in native stories, and I would love a 2D animated movie actually written and informed by native people. Now that, would be amazing. Instead we get Pocahontas, Brother Bear and James Cameron's Avatar. At least the first two are kids movies not trying to be too accurate, while the latter is trying to be serious and trying too many things, while missing the mark.
I'd recommend Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarrón. Probably imperfect, but it's a kids animated movie that explores colonization through the perspective of a wild horse, and is leagues better at indigenous representation than Pocahontas (although I doubt that's saying much)
Why is Avatar on the list??? It's a sci-fi film about aliens and how colonization in general is bad, not trying to accurately portray some earth based native culture tf 🤦♀️like what 'mark' do you think it's missing?
@@mybalcony4066 as much as I'd like to divorce it from indigenous human cultures, they very much tripped up an made it so. The Na'vi were supposed to be symbolizes by so many multicultural types of music from non-western cultures to sound more "alien" but then they decided that the score was *too* alien (mind you it's based on REAL INDIGENOUS HUMAN MUSIC) and scrapped it. They also gave the blue people locs which are a traditional black hairstyle pretty rooted in a history of oppression... It wasn't anything insane but it was a pretty annoying level of appropriation that was intentionally supposed to communicate that these blue people were metaphorically POC, which recontextualizes some of the weird "oneness with nature" and tribal getups into indigenous stereotypes and an unspecific amalgamation of every non-western culture. It's hard to explain but researching the production very much shined a light on this for me
As a little girl, I was totally enthralled with Pocahontas and her and her peoples' connection to nature that was portrayed. I really wanted to be like her; I even got my mom to allow me to cut my hair in a V shape once. I know now that there are multitudinous problems with the movie's story to the point that it may as well be a fairy tale now, but I still like the movie.
its the same for me with Anastasia an Hercules, like are they problematic in what they did, yeah, theyre still really good movies and i think what proves that is if theyd used completely made up lands and people i dont think anybody would have as many problems
@@ThePrincessCHI think because it's a misrepresentation of myth. Not as serious because it wasn't like. Actual history. But still the real mythology and folklore of a people. It's more akin to the movies misrepresenting ancient Egyptian folklore imo than Anastasia or Pocahontas
@@brancentral2633 Do the Greeks accurately portray their own folklore for the sake of entertainment? Because, according to Xiran Jay Zhao's video about the cultural references in Disney's animated version of "Mulan," most Chinese made historical fantasies aren't that accurate.
When I was in third or fourth grade we studied historical American figures including both John Smith and Pocahontas and I loved Pocahontas. When I heard Disney made a movie about her and learned things about it I was less than impressed. I would have loved a story that actually tried to tell the story of Pocahontas, but this movie never was it. The song is gorgeous though.
Problematic or not I think this is Menken’s best score. And he wrote Hunchback. Like if hunchback is a masterpiece the overall score of Pocahontas is just other worldly. The love theme…why they cut If I Never Knew You is beyond me.
@@MrChristianDT woah woah woah do NOT accuse me of never having watched my comfort show. Back off lol. Obviously that’s a brilliant score too but I think that was a little sophomoric compared to the refined details in the Pocahontas score. If I’m being honest Menken has never had a flop.
Alan Menken only composed the music and it’s surely one of his finest scores. The lyricist is Stephen Schwartz, and he’s the one to blame. He invented lines like “Blue corn moon” which actually don’t mean anything in any Native American language or culture.
I respectfully disagree on what the core messaging of Colors of the Wind is. Lyrically, it's more of a criticism of colonization, exploitation, and capitalism; it's an "earth song" of sorts more than it is a description of Native beliefs and culture, but I think you make great points!
Out of curiosity, how does it compare to 20th Century Fox's "Anastasia"? They're both animated musicals based on real people that aren't all that accurate.
We always loved to talk about how pocahontas was an ancestor of mine, and little me loved this movie and the Native American culture. I very much was born an environmentalist in spirit. But growing up, you realize the nuance of stuff like this movie. It wasn't accurate to history, and relied on a lot on stereotypes. But for its time, it truely looked as if they were trying their best to represent the culture however poorly that ended up being. I hope instead of trying to remake it, we can just write more stories from Native perspectives!
I agree. They seemed to have actually tried. I grew up loving the movie too but i also realized weird things as i got older. Legit i begged to wear my hair straight cause i looked so much like Pocahontas. (Which is funny cause apparently we’re lineal descendants of her not that we really know much.) i loved nature and the movie made that grow so it accomplished something at least not the representation part tho
To be fair, none of Disney's historical fantasies rely on historical accuracy. But, if you're interested in media that explores Native American culture beyond aesthetics, you might be interested in "Spirit Rangers." It's not a historical fantasy, but it's a fun kids' show.
Way back when as a little while girl, I always felt icky about this movie, because even I had been taught about Pocahontas and how her life was supremely messed up. She was a CHILD. Now that I'm older, and have lived in places like Seattle and now in NorCal directly mingling with the Ohone tribe, I absolutely detest this movie. Even as colonialist revisionist BS goes, Pocahontas is blatant. ETA: I'm glad you mentioned Seattle's speech. That always left a bad taste in my mouth.
I actually lived in Virginia at the time this movie came out, and at the time I knew that the history was wrong, I just didn't know HOW much they had gotten wrong!
Pocahontas gets me to ramble nowadays. I have a very strong and conflicted love/hate with both it and Avatar. I was a tiny thing when Pocahontas came out, a couple years later I had an elementary school assignment where we did a report on a historical figure and unknowingly signed up at seven years old to the realities of colonialism. Over time I have grown more and more aware of the stereotypes of the movie, even more so in regards to the general stereotypes out there because I got into Avatar in '09 and I still how people want to "live na'vi" while doing it in the most stereotypical and racist way possible. while both movies are about as equally stereotypical, i appreciate both for at least existing as a digestible introduction to the realities they attempt to touch on because I know full well there are still people in my area that claim "the indians traded the land to us for some turquoise beads" and other piles of crap like it. Prey is giving me a lot of hope for similar effort put into indigenous representation in media when it is present, I absolutely love how I haven't even seen the movie in English because Hulu has the Comanche dub easily accessible. I'm always going to be hungry for content like that. We've come a long way, I've seen some pretty abhorrent grayscale movies that would make the clips in this video look heartfelt and progressive because they were very much written with the "convert the savages to Christianity" lens complete with trashing the beliefs of the people they were trying to convert like they are some sort of villain, so we always need to do better to keep from falling right back into these same pits.
@@ElizabethMcCormick-s2n I'd be agreeing more if you mentioned that the omatikaya were inspired by several different indigenous african tribes with some also pulled from south american indigenous cultures, avatar only dipped into north american indigenous culture with the horse clan and even that was vague and brief. I am sorry that you see a fictional indigenous community and not only think of north american indigenous people (as if they are the only indigenous people in the world) but the jump goes straight to one of the most stereotypical stories. This is exactly the kind of jumping to conclusions that I want to see less of out there in the world. Maybe if more media honored more indigenous cultures, we wouldn't have this constant comparison to Pocahontas.
@@ElizabethMcCormick-s2n Honestly, a LOT of people don't. I'm genuinely sorry for how salty my first response was, I could have been gentler about it, but this really does highlight exactly what gets under my skin about Avatar. It's a decent surface level introduction to ongoing indigenous issues, but a lot of people REALLY stop at "blue native" but the "native" part doesn't even get specified much in the mind, so we end with "blue pocahontas" and after 13+ years of it...I am /tired/
Fascinating and important history. It reminds me of how people still cite and recite the exaggerated, southern “slave” accent Frances Gage version of Sojourner Truth (who was enslaved by a Dutch Family) in the north “Arent I a Woman.” While when you read both versions the message itself is not lost…but the Gage version is such a caricature that centers Truth as an object serving white women and their interests rather than as an intellectual theorizing feminism through her own life. Pocahontas is one of few Disney Renaissance films I don’t rewatch because of the historical distortion and stereotypes but I still sometimes pull up “Colors of the Wind.” It’s a beautiful song and I always knew it was oversimplified but didn’t know it was sourced in such myth. I saw Lindsay Ellis break down all the identical plot points of Pocahontas and Moana and it was kind of chilling. I love Moana but it made me look at it differently. Similar to what you pointed out with Black set Disney films it’s like when the film is centered on non-white people they retreat to a very specific kind of plot framework that undermines the full humanity of the characters. For Indigenous people the struggle between individual desire and tradition…for Latine people family generational trauma…Black folks they turn into animals for most of the film.
Pocahontas is such an interesting movie for the production details we know and the ones we don't. We know that the story was watered down because it had to be a movie for kids, even stricter, that it had to acheive a G rating, a common thing for the execs (Katzenberg) to force in that era. We also know that they aged up Pocahontas for the love story, thus the love story came first, and Katzenberg was quoted to have told animators to make her "the most idealized and finest woman ever made." It is also known that Katzenberg expected this movie to do well at the Oscar's because of its similarity to the story of Beauty and the Beast and that they liked Dances with Wolves. Now, the rest of this is speculative, but it wouldn't be too far fetched to imagine that Katzenberg, a man known for heavily forcing what he wanted, wanted to create an oscar bait movie. That he wanted to try to replicate the Beauty and the Beast win and forced the movie to be a romance, and while having to water down the story for that G rating, also wanting them to take havily from Dances with Wolves for John Smith. The animators wanted to do the story right, collaborating with Native tribes and having Native consultants, but the movie still ended up the way it did, not because of ignorance but because of extreme executive tampering. We'll never know how much Katzenberg was to blame, but from what we do know I feel like this movie should be remembered like the tragedy of Song of the South, where the man in charge decided that telling a nice children's story and appealing to the right people was worth removing reality from history for.
I mean, it's a catchy song, but we know pretty well at this point that there was almost nothing in the entire film whatsoever which was factually correct. Disney did kind of force the writers' hands a bit to make the movie fit more into their archetypes, so I don't know how much damage it caused to the original intention for the film, but its definitely obvious that very little of any research they may have done actually made it into the film. In the end, the song is just going back to the 20th century stereotype of all Native religion just being a combination of screeching over drums & I'm directly related to everything that exists & not much of anything else & we're hurting their family when we disrespect nature is their only complaint about anything that happened. Still enjoy listening to the song, though. Best part of the movie.
Damn I can’t even complain about Disney having Tiana as a frog throughout most of her movie, they did native Americans dirty. That’s like making a love story between a slave owner and his slave woman.
Likes it’s actually very strange.m that this was the story they went with. Could’ve been a Romeo and Juliet story with two Native Americans wanting to be together, but not being able to with their land, their identity, and everything being taken from them
So I know this movie is not accurate at all, but I grew up on it. And it gave me a love for nature. To really listen to nature. To feel the life around me. I didn't care about the love story of it. I didn't like both sides fighting (again, i was a kid.. a little pure innocent thing that knew nothing of real life and how much worse real life is with opposing sides in everyday life.) I pretty much wanted a simple life in nature. Away from chaos. Listening to the birds fly and sing, listening to the wind in the trees, the water in the creek, feel the trees pulse with their life force. And honestly, with how life is as an adult.... I kind of miss these simple child fantasies and wish there was an area free from this hell on earth.
Personally Pocahontas has always been one of my favourite Disney films. It inspired me to research more about its history and Native American culture too. My love persisted even after discovering all the incongruity. The song as well. I don’t see a problem with people liking it… as long as they recognise and consider it fiction, and understand the delicate and serious story and circumstances behind it. We are adults we should be able to enjoy something while at the same time recognising its problematic nature and compartmentalise fiction from reality.
I'm a bit amazed at all these opinions because most historians agree that there simply isn't enough evidence, which tends to happen when half the witnesses mostly kept an oral history and the other half were foreigners. It's easy to take creative liberties when history leaves a lot unsaid. Personally, I love the music and animation. It is art. The story is broadly true enough (relations between natives and settlers were a mix of curiosity, generosity, fear, misunderstanding, greed, and conflict). My biggest complaint is the romanticized love with John Smith. When I found out about the real age gap, and that Smith had a fatherly affection for her, I thought that was an uncomfortable stretch. But all that being said, I think Disney's movie made people want to learn more about Pocahontas. She is legendary.
Ngl Colors of the Wind was always a favorite Disney song of mine. Thank you for explaining some of the context behind the song. Also you have a beautiful speaking voice
A remarkably well presented video. I really enjoyed your presentation style, and it's an important topic that deserves more discussion. I'm not sure whether it's a good or bad thing that the only Disney movies so far set in Australia (The Rescuers Down Under, and Finding Nemo) had zero Indigenous representation. On the one hand it's bad that there's no Indigenous Australian representation in the Disney animated collection. On the other hand, at least it hasn't been misrepresented and whitewashed for Anglo audiences. (Although to their credit there is a Disney Plus Australia children's show all about Indigenous languages, featuring Indigenous speakers living on country).
The same question could be raised about the two Disney movies set in Africa. Though to be sure, Tarzan not having any native Africans is arguably understandable since 1) it's important to the narrative that Tarzan doesn't encounter any other humans before the Porters' expedition shows up and 2) the original "Tarzan of the Apes" novel portrays indigenous Africans in a very racist way (not to mention how Tarzan in the novel takes up a habit of murdering them with a rope...sound familiar?).
Well, when I get to work at Disney as a storyboard artist, I'll be creating new Disney movies with REAL indigenous Australian representation. It won't be misrepresented in any way, I'll make sure of that.
@@annien.1727 I look forward to it! A former Disney animator named David Hardy, who is Indigenous (Barkindji, from northwest NSW), wrote and illustrated an Indigenous picture book called Alfie's Search for Destiny, so we've seen what a Disney-style Indigenous child can look like (super cute!) and how Indigenous culture can be respectfully represented within a Disney 2D design and storyline. I would love to see him collaborate with Disney to make Alfie's story into an animated feature.
I’m part Mi’kmaq and I know this movie is hated and the song is very inaccurate but it was my favorite Disney as a child and I still really like it. I guess its my guilt pleasure. It also started my life long love of history and preservation too.
i think some people care more about free art about any topic than the wellbeing and respect of native americans. Their cool art is more important than respecting u, bcs this fictive object is more personal and important to them than true people. I'm an artist but i dont think art should put itself over people. I mean i love making art myself without worrying about historical acuracy, but i'd try to be more concious about it if millions are gonna see it. sounds like a dificult topic. but im sure there could be a good middleground, since people have done free, good and respectful art in the past.
Yeah, never like the "art is art, people can express themselves how they want". It's a copout and cowardly. You can express yourself how you feel fit, sure, but that right stops when you start hurting other people with it. Your right to swing your arms ends at my face, etc
@@aff77141 people making a movie you don't like is not comparable to swinging an arm We get it, freedom of expression isn't cool anymore, but FFS this film doesn't even try to negatively portray the people it's supposedly racist towards. It's offensive and it's cringe but it's not comparable to an actual assault of any kind
The song my have been inspired by a fake speech but does that make it inaccurate exactly? The song isn’t about Chief Seattle, all the song really claims is that we need to respect nature and see things from a more animistic point of view. It doesn’t really claim or even imply a whole lot about the culture.
Princess and the frog is one of my favorite Disney movies because of the music in it. I don't care that she's a frog for most of the film. The music is so good
I always assumed blue corn moon was just referring to a blue moon that took place during the harvest season, thoughlin hindsight I guess I never considered to look into whether the blue moon was actually a concept within the culture of Pocahontas' tribe... It's unfortunate that Chief Seattle's speach wasn't more accurately preserved, I'm curious what he actually said in regards to the way the land should be treated
I had always thought it was "blue-horned moon." You know, on account of the moon maybe looking kinda bluish, and the crescent moon having "horns"? 🤷♂️
Little me was obsessed with that movie simply for the colors and the song. I still love the song the message is good even if it was delivered badly. Growing up now and knowing more about Matoaka its weird its really weird. First Pocahontas was a nickname. She was also really young. Honestly the other side of my family might know more than us, the ones related directly to Matoaka. Although all seriousness weird movie WEIIRD but great song! Baddd representation
A little off the subject: I think we should cut Princess and the Frog a break. True. Tianna was a frog the whole movie. However, there were PLENTY of blacks in the movie. Dr. Facier was apparently black and a black man did his voice. Mama Odie was black and she was voiced by a black person. Plenty of extras were black. New Orleans Jazz was innovated by blacks even though the composer of the score was black. The black characters were well spoken as well.
The second I saw this I knew I had to click. I had some knowledge about the story being obviously made up, but didn't know the history of specifically the most famous song. So interesting to learn about.
So it sounds like Schwartz mixed up two categories of corn. "Green corn" means corn (of any varietal) that is sprouted but not ripe. "Blue corn" is one varietal of corn. There wouldn't be a special season for blue corn. And regardless of whether anything of the "Chief Seattle Speech" was ever said by the historical Chief Sealth, it's still hugely different. Sealth was one of the Coast Salish people of the Pacific Northwest; Pocahontas was Algonquin. It would be like looking to an Italian poem to make your movie about Finnish people more "authentically European."
Got this in my recommended, what an incredibly well made and informative video! You for sure deserve more subscibers, but I'll at least add the one at my disposal!
There are many errors- 1. John was a hero [red flag] in the native story despite he came in THEIR land 2. 'native savage' [noble savage rubs off the wrong way] to justify land exploitation 3. she was a naive teenager that not aware of the darker side of colonial imperialism and fell in love with THEM
Honestly I hate that movie it actually offends me. Pocahontas was a real person with a very tragic story . They reduce it down to a cheap and inaccurate cartoonish romance. They could have made a native American story with original characters along those lines and it would have been fine. Quite frankly I think using the name Pocahontas was kind of insulting. The music was okay though I like the song Savages is better than colors of the wind. No they're both pretty good. Just the music not the movie.
I like Pocahontas. Is it historically accurate? Probably not. The lyrics of the song Colors Of The Wind are deeply moving as well as thought provoking, A consciousness about the land, environment. Is the Thanksgiving narrative completely accurate? Probably not.. If the Puritan Pilgrims considered the Natives as " savages" they would not sit down to have a common meal with them..
Various kinds of people came over to North America over a few centuries and met an equally varied amount of people. Some of them ended up having good relationships with each other that lasted years. People forget how much can happen in a decade much less a hundred years.
I despise Pocahontas as a movie, besides the stupid representation of the natives being so off. The entire movie is based off the fictionalized events that John Smith made up for clout, whereas his initial diary entries tell of a much more amicable and peaceful interchange. The movie is misrepresenting history and even tries to end with a happily ever after, forgoing the years of tension and animosity that would arise between the various native tribes and the settlers of Europe. Obviously I’m not expecting a movie like this to retell a fairly uneventful encounter with perfect accuracy, I just hate how this movie dumbs down what would end up being a defining conflict for North America (really all of America, north and south), a conflict we still see today in reservations and tribal land.
The interesting thing about it all is that…in truth, it served its purpose. As much as we all like to say that we hate it, that it’s a gross representation of the child that tried to strive for peace but was proven wrong and was stolen, we all loved it as a kid. For kid me, she was the only one that looked like me so naturally I loved the movie. Of course now we see that though the intention behind the movie may be sincere, the effect was the opposite of the movie’s message. We are now objectified or put on a pedestal like how creator of Avatar, James Cameron, tries to make indigenous people seem. Yes these movies made us feel joy and though I hate Avatar with all my being, it was the thing that is inspiring me to push to become a writer. Though one criticism I do have is that, they need to step aside and let real indigenous people tell their stories.
I do like this movie and the songs along with it. Now that I know a lot of things was just historical revisionism, I just treat the movie like "fan fiction"
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on Soul. It was an excellent movie about not only black culture, but jazz and musical culture as well. Blackness is more than the color of our skin, it's an experience that the movie captured very well.
it's a pretty movie with pretty music, and i think it contributed to my love of nature and inspired respect for indigenous people (and i'm sure that was a lot of other people's experience). but yeah i'd be scared to try rewatching it. the real story is so upsetting, and it really sucks that they didn't seem to bother getting any input from the people they were making a movie about. so pretty standard for disney lol
This is such a tricky and conflicting thing to talk about. I want to acknowledge the talent and skill that went into writing the music and the lyrics while also acknowledging that it was culturally inaccurate and problematic and doesn't reflect the people it was trying to portray. I suppose all of these things can be true at once. Either way, great video.
I do think the important thing about the song, despite its flaws, is the way it made animism and an animist approach to the land accessible to non-indigenous and especially white people
It would be impossible to write an accurate account of events going on today. We all look at the world through a lens of our own life experience and shaped by the influence of others thoughts. You can interpret the same event in different ways from different perspectives. Often we misinterpret events in our own lives even though we experienced them. The vast majority of history goes unwritten and what is written is really a broad brush account interpreted by biased minds. An uncomfortable truth. Every story in reality is made up of a near infinite amount of details. We don’t tend to consider how the microbiomes in peoples guts influenced the behaviours and actions of individuals on any given day. The best we have are stories and if anyone thinks they have the correct story or interpretation they are lying to themselves to cope with the discomfort that we really don’t know shit. Story telling is problematic by it’s very nature. As is language in general, both are incredibly limited and even once spoken they are then interpreted by other equally biased minds. Its unavoidable. We live in an ocean of illusion but we are all in it together. Have compassion for one another.
I once wanted to do an essay on this song for an Aboriginal Studies class. When I learned the truth about the "blue corn moon," I went down the rabbit hole and realized how insidious this film REALLY was. I ended up writing about an excellent book written by an aboriginal author instead. I still low-key enjoy "Colors of the Wind," but I don't get the same epic vibes I did before. What a waste! I am embarrassed that I thought of studying a Disney movie in this class (I didn't know better). It's interesting that the line about "the blue corn moon" was the thing that started me in that path. There is no time when corn is blue?! lol
English is not my first language and growing up I only listened to this song translated to my native language so I never payed attention to what the lyrics are in English. In the version I’ve known since childhood she just sings about the wolf crying to the *full moon* and that’s it. All this to say, it was interesting to find out the actual history behind the song
I actually didn't mind that disney only had like 1 black character before tiana bc i loved all the princesses. I'm mixed (white mother black father) i saw myself in all coloured princesses.
I loved watching all the disney movies as a kid, I just always found it weird when people started talking about how problematic they are because they are exaggerated and fantastical, they're kids movies, all these tropes are par for the course. I never took it as a documentary or show of the culture, nor did I look to king arthur to see what knights and britain were like. People honestly get too easily offended
Assassin’s Creed 3 might be considered one of the black sheep of the franchise next to Unity, Odyssey, Syndicate, Valhalla and Mirage, but at least that game got Native American culture correctly than this movie and that original Peter Pan.
THANK YOU! I have always been very entranced by this song for the same reasons you mentioned… white female born in ‘85 so I was a target audience for Disney at the time. Your video is spot on, thanks for making it. Subscribed!!!
In Portuguese they translated that part as "blue moon" so it fits in the song lenght, that's why I never understood why they put corn in the middle 😂 always wondered if it was a normal saying by native speakers
If you're in north america, please consider doing some research into the tribes near you and the issues they face. Chances are, they're still fighting for clean water and to protect their sacred sites. A huge issue right now is lithium mining; it only exists to save the auto industry, and it's destroying sacred sites and poisoning drinking water across the west right now.
My dad always likes to talk about what was drawn from history and what was fabricated for movies, ever since i was a kid. So, eveb as a kid, I knew this movie and song was inaccurate and the older i grow, the more I know how tragic the inaccuracies are. But i still like this movie and song 😅
Pocahontas was one of my favorite movies as a kid, and I thought she was the coolest and wanted to be like her. It definitely gave me an ignorant, stereotyped idea of native culture that persisted for many years after. It’s heart-breaking to know the real story and how much damage the film did to her legacy, the Powhatan people, and the perceptions of indigenous peoples in popular culture. The other stories about indigenous people I was consuming as a kid (such as The Indian in my Cupboard, Walk Two Moons, and The Sign of the Beaver) were also often very problematic. I’m glad that nowadays it is so much easier and more common for children to be reading and watching authentic stories from different cultures.
Also I was so angry when I learned they hired a white woman to sing Pocahontas's voice, so upsetting they did the same thing even just a few years ago when they got a white guy to voice prince Navine, but "its fine because he's Brazilian" omg Disney what is your problem? Not probably the worst things about this film but its just every single thing seems to be rooted in racism and its so frustrating, i think one of the worst things is this is children's media as a child I had no idea that the horrific "red man red" song from Peter Pan wasn't based on actual history in my defense I was four and when my mom said it was racist I barely knew what racist meant and no one explained why it was racist I thought it was true so I didn't see how it could be racist that's why these things are so problematic they not only hurt the viewers that are being "represented" they teach kids to do awful racist things under the guys of a magical beautiful story they love causing so much misunderstanding confusion and ultimately more racist beliefs entrapped in magical boxes of fantasy and love its insidious I don't know any other word for it 😠
In regards to "Peter Pan," the film was based on a book from a time where certain prejudices were commonplace. As for Naveen, it's not that uncommon for colored people to voice white characters, too. In "The Batman" (2004), a black man voiced Joker and the actor is close friends with Mark Hamil (the voice actor people most associate with the Joker), and Hunter from "The Owl House" was also voiced by a black guy.
I never had an issue with the film, i think it portrays the nature of hate and how misunderstandings can lead to worse things accurately. But it does have its flaws and i think it does romantise the native American's a bit, but compared to peter pan this film has a way better representation of native Americans.
Your voice is so perfect for video I’m just saying how you talk and sound sounds like someone announcing the news it’s just so good it’s hard for me to explain it.
I really loved this movie as a kid, and nastolgia is definitely a factor but to be honest I still do. I certainly can't love it the same way knowing how poorly they portrayed native people and romanticized a real (very messed up) historical event, but the animation, music, and message (tho not executed perfectly) of preserving nature and respecting other culters always have and will stick with me as beautiful things. If Pocahontas ever gets rebooted or a new movie addressing native struggles comes out I hope it's done with actual native writers, directors, and artists on the team! It's their story to tell, after all!
I'm Dine and love Disney Pocahontas anyways. If they just named the character something else it would've probably been better. The theme of the movie isn't bad. I love me some peace keeping between nations. I know it's not history but it's what I'd wanna teach my children first. We can cover the ugliness of the world when they are older. As children I want them seeking peace and loving people.
It was a really cool video ! I'm currently trying to educate myself on BIPOC culture (btw, if anyone has reliable sources to push my learnings further please let me know) and maybe even eventually to do enough to become an ally. I'm just a little disappointed that the contrast between the song & actual native american culture wasn't really fully explained/showed.
4:01 If it's like that, then noone was represented in The Lion King since there were no humans. Cars likely had lots of trouble with representation considering there are no humans and all the characters were motor vehicles. Regarding the speech from Chief Seattle, does any of the original remain in some way where people can find it without the layers of alterations?
The movie has always made me uncomfortable, as a kid the only thing I knew about Pocahontas was that she was a kid and was forced to marry later, that’s all I’d heard in school, so the movie felt wrong, but I’ve always loved the song so much. One of my favorite songs of all time, I didn’t understand the concept of cultural or political themes, I just heard a song about love and wonder and how it’s for everyone and not something you just take.
I understand why it is seen as problematic but at the same time it gave you the important thing that is representation. I live in Poland and most of the things we knew at that time about Native Americans was through American media we stumbled upon. You can call it ignorance but if you didn't know of the Natives how you supposed to learn about them? (especially when Poland was in terrible place then). Disney did the very important thing of showing that Native people are not their stereotype often used in comedic way. They presented them as real people and, although they took historical names that made it problematic, they presented to kids the truth of how the colonization was brutal but not showing too much brutality. The truth is that people always will complain about the representation they get. Hell, I am Polish one of the most unsatisfied and most complaining nations on the planet so I would know 😅 But it is your representation so you obviously have a right to critisize it. Although for me and many other people it gave a possibility of learning about true story behind it when we were at the proper age for the true story. For me Pocahontas is a good foundation to lay for kids to learn more about truth of the history and culture of Native Americans. Btw, the Pocahontas' song is changed a little in translation here so we don't have the 'blue corn moon' and it is sang by the very accomplished singer Edyta Górniak. It is a masterpiece how it was sung, the emotions behind the song always move me to the core. Mainly it is because my country at the time it was conquered had songs with a similar sentiment to them and it just saddened me that there were more people who gone through the brutalities of war and cultural and literal colonization. Also, thank you for the very informative video.
i always loved this song (and the art of the movie) despite all its flaws, *and there are a lot of flaws.* i think part of loving art is acknowledging its mistakes.
In my opinion a lot would’ve been solved if it wasn’t based off a real person. I remember finding out about that as a kid and feeling upset even though I loved it. Yeah their dead, but they were still people.
Tiana is my favorite princess but I can't stand frog part. But as character yes I love her. I have Tiana everything. I make it a pt to meet her on my birthday march 31st at Disneyland n they make it hard believe they do smh. Lately I been making hard on apirl 1st smh. I wrote letters to Disneyland 4 lack their is of her n merchandise smh. U r so right n r on pt especially about soul n lion king. I am a Disneyland fan n disney movie fan n music ..but i do know the truth smh. N i know what is up especially with the upcoming ride n them ppl r hating hard smh. I dont care for her having that ride. I want her to have a diff one. But ppl dont need to mean r racist smh. But thanks for this.
![⭐️( ลอยกระทง 2024 ) Ver. แดนซ์ Remix BY [ ดีเจกิต รีมิกซ์ ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rMWOLhgXUHc/mqdefault.jpg)
If you read an actual Indigenous American story you will be bawling your eyes out. Cause in reality the Indigenous always lost. Land was taken, culture was destroyed, languages were killed. It's all extremely depressing. Just go read anything by Richard Wagamese you'll be sad for months.
Yeah, they did always lose. I love this movie, especially knowing that the Natives always lost. Because I think most of us wish we could all just get along, and that whole nations didn't get decimated as they tend to in reality.
@@Nicetrybro563of course you think like this…trying to justify killing natives bc of things that you really don’t know the history of (based on this God awful comment)
@@Nicetrybro563 you really think you did something with this but truly you just are a god awful person…nothing you say justifies it…you just want a reaction and are acting like a child
@@Nicetrybro563 you really are not smart if this is your takeaway…if you think they were the only ones…then you really are dumb…you are just racist
@@Nicetrybro563 Every culture had human sacrifice of some sort, bucko. Remember the witch trials?
There are NO mountains in virginia BEACH.....thats where they lived. Also, her name was MATOAKA and she was the first missing /exploited indigenous american
The Virginia Company even made MONEY off of her while she and John Rolfe were in England with their son!
Virginia Beach? Where did you get that information? They lived in Jamestown
Hi, I actually have a lot of family that worked at the Jamestown museum and spent a good portion of my youth wandering through the place. She did not live where we would call Virginia Beach today
Actually the Taino under Columbus had it worse before her
@@Carlos-bz5ooColumbus was a dickhead, no question about it!
I'm so conflicted about all of this, because I'm Diné (Navajo) and I obviously know about the problematic nature of this film... But I still absolutely love this song. I know I shouldn't, but I do. 😭
I believe that is the definition of a guilty pleasure lol
Indeed same 😢😅🩷
That's the shame about a lot of problematic art. It can still be good art
Same, I'm also half Diné/Navajo and I love Colors Of The Wind
Thank you for being vulnerable with this comment. I support you in your nuanced point of view! It helps reaffirm that people can like the film and acknowledge its shortcomings at the same time. 🌸
I’m a Native American and my tribes are Chickasaw, Choctaw, Seminole, & Mvskoke Creek from Oklahoma. My biggest problem with this movie is not that it was inaccurate, but every white person wanted to be Native. Before the movie, my friends, family, and other Natives were discriminated, ridiculed, targeted and people hated us. Now, they switch up and you see everyone claiming to be Cherokee and dressing like a “Indian princess” 🙄
It sounds like those rcta people 😭
For the record, I never even thought about dressing up as a Native American after seeing "Pocahontas"!
Why do you belong to so many tribes at the same time how does that work
@@Tijaxtolanit’s called having parents with two tribes each do the math
Would you rather be hated or appreciated? Also, no, not every white person wanted to be native American, just like not every modern native American owns a casino.
When I was a kid and Pocahontas 2 came out, I remember being troubled by the story because it seemed so much more sad than the first movie. I asked my mom about it, and she explained to me that Pocahontas was based on a true story that was very different from the movie. That encouraged me from an early age to be sensitive to the fact that not all films are accurate representations of the stories they’re adapting, and ever since then I’ve loved contrasting them with their historical counterparts to give me a more well rounded perspective of both. I appreciate that this analysis acknowledges that although this movie has its blindspots, it doesn’t strip it of all its merits.
Such a shame the technically more accurate film was also the most garbage film. But history doesn’t lend to good storytelling a lot of the time.
This is a wonderful approach I think!
I loved that movie and its main character alot as a kid. I honestly kinda idolized this fictional version of Pocahontas. I remember trying to learn her way of sneaking low to the ground, refusing to wear shoes for an entire summer and trying to find a Kolibri to befriend (I failed miserably, since these beautiful birds aren't native to my region).
Only much later I realized that this movie was a beautiful and problematic lie, misrepresenting the true history of Native Americans and further mystefying their cultures.
I really wish they had done their due diligence in creating proper and respectful representation, hiring Natives to be part of the process in various ways. Young me would probably have fallen in love with that movie just as much if not more, without having to unlearn the stereotypes the Disney movie instilled in me years later.
1- "misrepresenting the true history" "problematic lie"
yes its historical fiction the talking tree should have been a clue
2-" hiring Natives to be part of the process"
he did say he talked to many of them
@@m.j.vazquez4720 You have no problem with aging up a 10 year old girl so that a problematic colonizer can boink them? In a double power trip? That's kinda sick, yo. That pedo there. Tbf, John Smith did the same thing in his account, but do you really want to support Pedo aspirations? I mean you can't even defend with "It was the times" because by the time he rolled around, the idea of someone like that taking a 10 year old was called sick by the end of Tudor England. But sure, if you're secretly a Prince Andrew or Harvey Weinstien keep peddling there is nothing problematic about aging up a PoC girl of 10 to be a love interest of an oppressor. I'm sure you'd be interested in stories like Madame Chrysanthemum and Madame Butterfly too which has similar issues.
Yeah, Pocahontas is a hard movie for me because I LOVE this movie. But I’ve also come to understand it’s basically historical fan fiction and they do take a lot of liberties if not throw in some stereotypes. I’ll give credit that they did TRY, and it was better than the native Americans in Peter Pan. (Actually using some language, dressing the tribes in different outfits instead of them all being the same, mentioning that they’re at war with some tribes and they’re not all buddy buddy like previously thought…) but there’s definitely some inaccuracies and those inaccuracies DO stick out like a sore thumb….and I feel bad for liking this movie knowing it’s a stereotype and not true to Pocahontas’ real story, but I just love the message and the music so much! Maybe if they had made up their own characters and not done it according to the Pocahontas fable, it would have eased the pain, but…I don’t know. I’m not native. I’m sure it doesn’t even remotely help.
@@m.j.vazquez4720 True, but to be fair I was six. And you can have magic in a movie without completely misrepresenting a whole group of people.
Also talking to someone and actually hiring people to create an authentic story are two very different things
@@namtellectjoonal7230 1- "misrepresenting a whole group of people."
???
2- again they were not going for authentic they were going for fantasy
My favorite quote from the song was the eàrly line"But still I cannot see, if the savage one is me, how can there be so much that you don't know." As a kid I didn't get the nuisance of mountain voices or wind having color.
For me it'll always be the lines:
You think you own whatever land you land on,
The earth is just a dead thing you can claim,
But I know every rock and tree and creature,
Has a life, has a spirit, has a name
@@ellaphxI love that part so much 😢
I'm autistic. This song was unintelligible to me.
I was moved by the music and the singer though.
@@RosesTeaAndASDautists can’t understand literacy resources
@@RosesTeaAndASDi’m autistic, the song was totally intelligible to me even if it was a little cringe
I always hated that movie. Why she wore a mini skirt and no moccasins is beyond me. We also didn't jump off of waterfalls like idiots. Not to mention how they completely changed her story and had so many bad stereotypes. My friend watched it with her daughter and she said she couldnt believe how many stereotypes it had in there. She said it was her favorite movie as a kid but never realized until she was an adult how bad it was.
1- one thats not a skirt its a dress and its not really that short second its a creative choice like jasmines outfit which was a combnation of belly dancer and the style of clothes girls in the 90s were wearing
2-" We also didn't jump off of waterfalls like idiots"
i dont think the movie says they all did it it just says SHE did it ti get across her being more daring a good use of show dont tell
3-"changed her story "
yes its historical fiction the talking tree should have been a clue
@@m.j.vazquez4720 historical fiction about a tragic indigenous woman who was stolen from her home and died at a very young age, all written by white people without input from members of her tribe. Just cos it's fiction doesn't mean it can't have real life impact. Pocahontas should have never been made and if it had to be, certainly not by the colonizers
@InternetIsWild She was a real person who had horrific things happend to her, then she was forced to convert to Christianity, her husband was killed and she was forced to marry John Rolfe then she was paraded around Europe like a carnival attraction where she died at yhe age of 22. Her life was stolen from her and Disney treated her with such disrespect. They should never have made that movie to begin with.
@@m.j.vazquez4720 I have yet to see an Indigenous tribe in this country who dressed like that. It wouldn't have been practical for women who worked outside to dress like that. She was a real persin and this movie was so innacurate and people that watched would be influenced by it and think that was how we really were when that isn't true.
@@turquesa_8056 1- "who dressed like that. "
and ?
2-"wouldn't have been practical "
and ?
3-"She was a real persin"
and ?
4-"innacurate"
the movie with the talking tree was innacurate you dont say lol
5- i really dont think the majority of people take the move with the talking tree to be be very historically acurate
6- did you even read my comment ?
major points
- historical fiction
- talking tree
It's really a case where you see why people liked/admired Pocahontas at the time, but we really need more mainstream stories by Native American artists. Honestly, Disney should give a Native American creative team some time and money as compensation. Mythologising history and making it more appealing is universal and completely natural, but you really want people telling stories through their own history, especially when Native American history is so mythologisied and whitewashed, that's what ends up being taught in schools.
Problem is, not a lot of native Americans want to be animators or story tellers as a life time career. Disney can create a native American team, but you can't make a team without enough people representing the team. Lastly, if you want representation for your race, and demand it from another race, don't be surprised when it comes out inaccurate. If you want something done right, do it yourself, otherwise, be glad you got any representation at all.
This is why one day I’m gonna produce a graphic novel with mcs from my nation; because I’m kinda frustrated at the lack of representation that are written by indigenous people for indigenous people and wanna see that kinda stuff
@@Eosinophyllis that’s what you should do. You shouldn’t expect other races and cultures to represent your race and culture, then have surprise pickachu face when they get it wrong.
@@VulpinetideCuteTimes0w0 I think that's a bit unfair and untrue. I follow plenty of indigenous creatives on social media who work in the media industry. There's definitely talent out there. Also, there's a difference between representation which gets things wrong and perpetuating harmful stereotypes. Most people have some social responsibility not to do the latter even if they won't get things perfect
@@Sootielove Than why aren’t they making stories, movies or animations representing their culture?
They lyric is "Blue corn moon"? I literally always thought it was "New-born moon"
I thought it was "blue horn." 😂
For a long time I thought it was “moon or moons.”
I never even could guess what was being said.
Always heard "blue, cold moon" :S
All the above are apparently better options, so congrats to you all 😂
As a Chamorro (Pacific Islander), I sympathize with Native American people. We were also colonized by Europeans (Spanish), and were made to feel like we were the bad guys when _they_ were the ones that stopped our traditions and erased our history. I hope prosperity for you Native peoples. Fa'a'nau taimamalau (be fearless, be unashamed)
who of us hasn't been colonised by europe... they didn't leave a single african country alone
@@yasminechoerryscherry3701 hey man, Ethiopia held out for a really long time
@@NotesNNotes yeah that's also true
I'm just saying, almost every country in the global south has experienced and keeps experiencing the effects of European colonialism (and I'm sick of it btw)
There is so much wisdom in that, as a mexican (also enslaved by Europeans, also taught to forget our language and traditions, also had our wealth confiscated) this makes so much sense...fear and shame are how the Europeans keep you down, thank you.
Hafa adai, I traveled to Saipan and Tinian. Some of the best people in the whole United States.
I saw the title, and and it piqued my interest. I saw the creator name, and I clicked right away. I love your content and this was no exception. All that "work" to represent Native American culture and folklore, only to mostly fabricate the whole thing definitely made the movie all the more problematic. Thank you for making this video and enlightening me more.
People like you are the reason why we can't have great movies because you can't stop abusing the term "problematic" and move on with life. Get over it!
I always pictured blue cornflowers with the line, "Blue corn moon," and not blue corn. Like the moon looking like a giant cornflower.
The idea for Pocahontas was dug up from the Disney vaults, and originally was going to be a more serious tale. But, as the OG idea came from an even older era and still from non-native writers, it wouldn't have been much better. I have always been interested in native stories, and I would love a 2D animated movie actually written and informed by native people. Now that, would be amazing.
Instead we get Pocahontas, Brother Bear and James Cameron's Avatar. At least the first two are kids movies not trying to be too accurate, while the latter is trying to be serious and trying too many things, while missing the mark.
Try the movie Four Souls of Coyote. It's splendid
You could check out "Spirit Rangers." It's not a historical fantasy, but it explores Native American culture beyond aesthetic purposes.
I'd recommend Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarrón. Probably imperfect, but it's a kids animated movie that explores colonization through the perspective of a wild horse, and is leagues better at indigenous representation than Pocahontas (although I doubt that's saying much)
Why is Avatar on the list??? It's a sci-fi film about aliens and how colonization in general is bad, not trying to accurately portray some earth based native culture tf 🤦♀️like what 'mark' do you think it's missing?
@@mybalcony4066 as much as I'd like to divorce it from indigenous human cultures, they very much tripped up an made it so. The Na'vi were supposed to be symbolizes by so many multicultural types of music from non-western cultures to sound more "alien" but then they decided that the score was *too* alien (mind you it's based on REAL INDIGENOUS HUMAN MUSIC) and scrapped it. They also gave the blue people locs which are a traditional black hairstyle pretty rooted in a history of oppression... It wasn't anything insane but it was a pretty annoying level of appropriation that was intentionally supposed to communicate that these blue people were metaphorically POC, which recontextualizes some of the weird "oneness with nature" and tribal getups into indigenous stereotypes and an unspecific amalgamation of every non-western culture. It's hard to explain but researching the production very much shined a light on this for me
As a little girl, I was totally enthralled with Pocahontas and her and her peoples' connection to nature that was portrayed. I really wanted to be like her; I even got my mom to allow me to cut my hair in a V shape once. I know now that there are multitudinous problems with the movie's story to the point that it may as well be a fairy tale now, but I still like the movie.
its the same for me with Anastasia an Hercules, like are they problematic in what they did, yeah, theyre still really good movies and i think what proves that is if theyd used completely made up lands and people i dont think anybody would have as many problems
@nope19568 Why would "Hercules" be problematic? Unlike Anastasia and Pocahontas, he wasn't real.
@@ThePrincessCHI think because it's a misrepresentation of myth. Not as serious because it wasn't like. Actual history. But still the real mythology and folklore of a people. It's more akin to the movies misrepresenting ancient Egyptian folklore imo than Anastasia or Pocahontas
@@brancentral2633 Do the Greeks accurately portray their own folklore for the sake of entertainment? Because, according to Xiran Jay Zhao's video about the cultural references in Disney's animated version of "Mulan," most Chinese made historical fantasies aren't that accurate.
@@brancentral2633 There was even a comment about how the hairstyles in the film look more accurate than most C-Dramas.
When I was in third or fourth grade we studied historical American figures including both John Smith and Pocahontas and I loved Pocahontas. When I heard Disney made a movie about her and learned things about it I was less than impressed. I would have loved a story that actually tried to tell the story of Pocahontas, but this movie never was it.
The song is gorgeous though.
I was in kindergarten when it came out so it was my introduction to the story.
Problematic or not I think this is Menken’s best score. And he wrote Hunchback. Like if hunchback is a masterpiece the overall score of Pocahontas is just other worldly. The love theme…why they cut If I Never Knew You is beyond me.
If I never knew you is legitimately one of the prettiest love duets to ever love duet imo.
You never saw Galavant? He scored all the songs for that entire series.
@@MrChristianDT woah woah woah do NOT accuse me of never having watched my comfort show. Back off lol. Obviously that’s a brilliant score too but I think that was a little sophomoric compared to the refined details in the Pocahontas score. If I’m being honest Menken has never had a flop.
Alan Menken only composed the music and it’s surely one of his finest scores. The lyricist is Stephen Schwartz, and he’s the one to blame. He invented lines like “Blue corn moon” which actually don’t mean anything in any Native American language or culture.
@@missmokkori5558 sure no yea blame the lyricist behind Wicked. Horrid take but okay.
I respectfully disagree on what the core messaging of Colors of the Wind is. Lyrically, it's more of a criticism of colonization, exploitation, and capitalism; it's an "earth song" of sorts more than it is a description of Native beliefs and culture, but I think you make great points!
Out of curiosity, how does it compare to 20th Century Fox's "Anastasia"? They're both animated musicals based on real people that aren't all that accurate.
Bro they fr made Rasputin an evil wizard like 💀
Considering real life Anastasia pretty much 100% died with the rest of her family as a young teen, not much better, just a lot less racism
@@aff77141 Not just that. The film rewrote the entire reason her family was overthrown.
Incredibly, _Pocahontas_ is more historically accurate than _Anastasia._ That's how bad _Anastasia_ is.
Anastasia is viewed with a lot less contempt because it's only about white people
Double standard
We always loved to talk about how pocahontas was an ancestor of mine, and little me loved this movie and the Native American culture. I very much was born an environmentalist in spirit. But growing up, you realize the nuance of stuff like this movie. It wasn't accurate to history, and relied on a lot on stereotypes. But for its time, it truely looked as if they were trying their best to represent the culture however poorly that ended up being. I hope instead of trying to remake it, we can just write more stories from Native perspectives!
I agree. They seemed to have actually tried. I grew up loving the movie too but i also realized weird things as i got older. Legit i begged to wear my hair straight cause i looked so much like Pocahontas. (Which is funny cause apparently we’re lineal descendants of her not that we really know much.) i loved nature and the movie made that grow so it accomplished something at least not the representation part tho
To be fair, none of Disney's historical fantasies rely on historical accuracy. But, if you're interested in media that explores Native American culture beyond aesthetics, you might be interested in "Spirit Rangers." It's not a historical fantasy, but it's a fun kids' show.
If you really think about it, "COLORS OF THE WIND" sounds lovecraft like
🎵Can you paint with all the colors out of space🎵
😭😭😭
@@a.a.mikell4124 all the colors out of space sure
✨mysterious colours unlike any seen on earth✨
Way back when as a little while girl, I always felt icky about this movie, because even I had been taught about Pocahontas and how her life was supremely messed up. She was a CHILD.
Now that I'm older, and have lived in places like Seattle and now in NorCal directly mingling with the Ohone tribe, I absolutely detest this movie. Even as colonialist revisionist BS goes, Pocahontas is blatant.
ETA: I'm glad you mentioned Seattle's speech. That always left a bad taste in my mouth.
I actually lived in Virginia at the time this movie came out, and at the time I knew that the history was wrong, I just didn't know HOW much they had gotten wrong!
Pocahontas gets me to ramble nowadays. I have a very strong and conflicted love/hate with both it and Avatar. I was a tiny thing when Pocahontas came out, a couple years later I had an elementary school assignment where we did a report on a historical figure and unknowingly signed up at seven years old to the realities of colonialism. Over time I have grown more and more aware of the stereotypes of the movie, even more so in regards to the general stereotypes out there because I got into Avatar in '09 and I still how people want to "live na'vi" while doing it in the most stereotypical and racist way possible. while both movies are about as equally stereotypical, i appreciate both for at least existing as a digestible introduction to the realities they attempt to touch on because I know full well there are still people in my area that claim "the indians traded the land to us for some turquoise beads" and other piles of crap like it. Prey is giving me a lot of hope for similar effort put into indigenous representation in media when it is present, I absolutely love how I haven't even seen the movie in English because Hulu has the Comanche dub easily accessible. I'm always going to be hungry for content like that. We've come a long way, I've seen some pretty abhorrent grayscale movies that would make the clips in this video look heartfelt and progressive because they were very much written with the "convert the savages to Christianity" lens complete with trashing the beliefs of the people they were trying to convert like they are some sort of villain, so we always need to do better to keep from falling right back into these same pits.
Avatar is just "Pocahontas" in space, in my opinion!
@@ElizabethMcCormick-s2n I'd be agreeing more if you mentioned that the omatikaya were inspired by several different indigenous african tribes with some also pulled from south american indigenous cultures, avatar only dipped into north american indigenous culture with the horse clan and even that was vague and brief. I am sorry that you see a fictional indigenous community and not only think of north american indigenous people (as if they are the only indigenous people in the world) but the jump goes straight to one of the most stereotypical stories.
This is exactly the kind of jumping to conclusions that I want to see less of out there in the world. Maybe if more media honored more indigenous cultures, we wouldn't have this constant comparison to Pocahontas.
@@SpinfoilHatThat's true, I agree, indigenous people need more and fairer representation in media!
@@SpinfoilHat Sorry, I got the impression when I saw "Avatar" in the theaters, I had no idea about the African and South American tribes!
@@ElizabethMcCormick-s2n Honestly, a LOT of people don't. I'm genuinely sorry for how salty my first response was, I could have been gentler about it, but this really does highlight exactly what gets under my skin about Avatar. It's a decent surface level introduction to ongoing indigenous issues, but a lot of people REALLY stop at "blue native" but the "native" part doesn't even get specified much in the mind, so we end with "blue pocahontas" and after 13+ years of it...I am /tired/
Fascinating and important history. It reminds me of how people still cite and recite the exaggerated, southern “slave” accent Frances Gage version of Sojourner Truth (who was enslaved by a Dutch Family) in the north “Arent I a Woman.” While when you read both versions the message itself is not lost…but the Gage version is such a caricature that centers Truth as an object serving white women and their interests rather than as an intellectual theorizing feminism through her own life.
Pocahontas is one of few Disney Renaissance films I don’t rewatch because of the historical distortion and stereotypes but I still sometimes pull up “Colors of the Wind.” It’s a beautiful song and I always knew it was oversimplified but didn’t know it was sourced in such myth.
I saw Lindsay Ellis break down all the identical plot points of Pocahontas and Moana and it was kind of chilling. I love Moana but it made me look at it differently. Similar to what you pointed out with Black set Disney films it’s like when the film is centered on non-white people they retreat to a very specific kind of plot framework that undermines the full humanity of the characters. For Indigenous people the struggle between individual desire and tradition…for Latine people family generational trauma…Black folks they turn into animals for most of the film.
Pocahontas is such an interesting movie for the production details we know and the ones we don't. We know that the story was watered down because it had to be a movie for kids, even stricter, that it had to acheive a G rating, a common thing for the execs (Katzenberg) to force in that era. We also know that they aged up Pocahontas for the love story, thus the love story came first, and Katzenberg was quoted to have told animators to make her "the most idealized and finest woman ever made." It is also known that Katzenberg expected this movie to do well at the Oscar's because of its similarity to the story of Beauty and the Beast and that they liked Dances with Wolves.
Now, the rest of this is speculative, but it wouldn't be too far fetched to imagine that Katzenberg, a man known for heavily forcing what he wanted, wanted to create an oscar bait movie. That he wanted to try to replicate the Beauty and the Beast win and forced the movie to be a romance, and while having to water down the story for that G rating, also wanting them to take havily from Dances with Wolves for John Smith. The animators wanted to do the story right, collaborating with Native tribes and having Native consultants, but the movie still ended up the way it did, not because of ignorance but because of extreme executive tampering.
We'll never know how much Katzenberg was to blame, but from what we do know I feel like this movie should be remembered like the tragedy of Song of the South, where the man in charge decided that telling a nice children's story and appealing to the right people was worth removing reality from history for.
That would be ironic, given how much people consider DreamWorks, the studio he founded to the anti-Disney.
I mean, it's a catchy song, but we know pretty well at this point that there was almost nothing in the entire film whatsoever which was factually correct. Disney did kind of force the writers' hands a bit to make the movie fit more into their archetypes, so I don't know how much damage it caused to the original intention for the film, but its definitely obvious that very little of any research they may have done actually made it into the film. In the end, the song is just going back to the 20th century stereotype of all Native religion just being a combination of screeching over drums & I'm directly related to everything that exists & not much of anything else & we're hurting their family when we disrespect nature is their only complaint about anything that happened. Still enjoy listening to the song, though. Best part of the movie.
That's not solely a Disney thing. That's Hollywood historical fantasies in general.
Damn I can’t even complain about Disney having Tiana as a frog throughout most of her movie, they did native Americans dirty. That’s like making a love story between a slave owner and his slave woman.
Likes it’s actually very strange.m that this was the story they went with. Could’ve been a Romeo and Juliet story with two Native Americans wanting to be together, but not being able to with their land, their identity, and everything being taken from them
@@growingupwithdisney Now that would have been an awesome story and I mean iconic and memorable.
they portayed them as wise and the good guys how is that doing them dirty ?
Accurate or not, Colors of the Wind is a lovely song that reminds me of Wicca. But I can understand why some hate Pocahontas as a movie as well.
@@sampeacaml9307 I agree
So I know this movie is not accurate at all, but I grew up on it. And it gave me a love for nature. To really listen to nature. To feel the life around me.
I didn't care about the love story of it. I didn't like both sides fighting (again, i was a kid.. a little pure innocent thing that knew nothing of real life and how much worse real life is with opposing sides in everyday life.)
I pretty much wanted a simple life in nature. Away from chaos. Listening to the birds fly and sing, listening to the wind in the trees, the water in the creek, feel the trees pulse with their life force.
And honestly, with how life is as an adult.... I kind of miss these simple child fantasies and wish there was an area free from this hell on earth.
Personally Pocahontas has always been one of my favourite Disney films. It inspired me to research more about its history and Native American culture too. My love persisted even after discovering all the incongruity. The song as well.
I don’t see a problem with people liking it… as long as they recognise and consider it fiction, and understand the delicate and serious story and circumstances behind it. We are adults we should be able to enjoy something while at the same time recognising its problematic nature and compartmentalise fiction from reality.
I don't think I've ever slapped the subscribe button so fast in my life.
I'm a bit amazed at all these opinions because most historians agree that there simply isn't enough evidence, which tends to happen when half the witnesses mostly kept an oral history and the other half were foreigners. It's easy to take creative liberties when history leaves a lot unsaid. Personally, I love the music and animation. It is art. The story is broadly true enough (relations between natives and settlers were a mix of curiosity, generosity, fear, misunderstanding, greed, and conflict). My biggest complaint is the romanticized love with John Smith. When I found out about the real age gap, and that Smith had a fatherly affection for her, I thought that was an uncomfortable stretch. But all that being said, I think Disney's movie made people want to learn more about Pocahontas. She is legendary.
to the natives, they don't have a concept of owning a land at all. owning a land is like saying that you own the sky, which is just silly.
Ngl Colors of the Wind was always a favorite Disney song of mine. Thank you for explaining some of the context behind the song. Also you have a beautiful speaking voice
A remarkably well presented video. I really enjoyed your presentation style, and it's an important topic that deserves more discussion. I'm not sure whether it's a good or bad thing that the only Disney movies so far set in Australia (The Rescuers Down Under, and Finding Nemo) had zero Indigenous representation. On the one hand it's bad that there's no Indigenous Australian representation in the Disney animated collection. On the other hand, at least it hasn't been misrepresented and whitewashed for Anglo audiences.
(Although to their credit there is a Disney Plus Australia children's show all about Indigenous languages, featuring Indigenous speakers living on country).
The same question could be raised about the two Disney movies set in Africa. Though to be sure, Tarzan not having any native Africans is arguably understandable since 1) it's important to the narrative that Tarzan doesn't encounter any other humans before the Porters' expedition shows up and 2) the original "Tarzan of the Apes" novel portrays indigenous Africans in a very racist way (not to mention how Tarzan in the novel takes up a habit of murdering them with a rope...sound familiar?).
@@BrandonPilcher there's a similar issue with Brother Bear. The music was made to sound "First Nations"-y.... by getting a Bavarian women's choir?
Well, when I get to work at Disney as a storyboard artist, I'll be creating new Disney movies with REAL indigenous Australian representation. It won't be misrepresented in any way, I'll make sure of that.
@@annien.1727 That's actually my dream job omg- wish ya the best!
@@annien.1727 I look forward to it! A former Disney animator named David Hardy, who is Indigenous (Barkindji, from northwest NSW), wrote and illustrated an Indigenous picture book called Alfie's Search for Destiny, so we've seen what a Disney-style Indigenous child can look like (super cute!) and how Indigenous culture can be respectfully represented within a Disney 2D design and storyline. I would love to see him collaborate with Disney to make Alfie's story into an animated feature.
I’m part Mi’kmaq and I know this movie is hated and the song is very inaccurate but it was my favorite Disney as a child and I still really like it. I guess its my guilt pleasure. It also started my life long love of history and preservation too.
i think some people care more about free art about any topic than the wellbeing and respect of native americans. Their cool art is more important than respecting u, bcs this fictive object is more personal and important to them than true people. I'm an artist but i dont think art should put itself over people. I mean i love making art myself without worrying about historical acuracy, but i'd try to be more concious about it if millions are gonna see it. sounds like a dificult topic. but im sure there could be a good middleground, since people have done free, good and respectful art in the past.
Yeah, never like the "art is art, people can express themselves how they want". It's a copout and cowardly. You can express yourself how you feel fit, sure, but that right stops when you start hurting other people with it. Your right to swing your arms ends at my face, etc
@@aff77141 people making a movie you don't like is not comparable to swinging an arm
We get it, freedom of expression isn't cool anymore, but FFS this film doesn't even try to negatively portray the people it's supposedly racist towards. It's offensive and it's cringe but it's not comparable to an actual assault of any kind
The song my have been inspired by a fake speech but does that make it inaccurate exactly? The song isn’t about Chief Seattle, all the song really claims is that we need to respect nature and see things from a more animistic point of view. It doesn’t really claim or even imply a whole lot about the culture.
Agreed. I think people are focusing on the wrong things when it comes to this film
Princess and the frog is one of my favorite Disney movies because of the music in it. I don't care that she's a frog for most of the film. The music is so good
Randy Newman FTW
I always assumed blue corn moon was just referring to a blue moon that took place during the harvest season, thoughlin hindsight I guess I never considered to look into whether the blue moon was actually a concept within the culture of Pocahontas' tribe... It's unfortunate that Chief Seattle's speach wasn't more accurately preserved, I'm curious what he actually said in regards to the way the land should be treated
I had always thought it was "blue-horned moon." You know, on account of the moon maybe looking kinda bluish, and the crescent moon having "horns"? 🤷♂️
Little me was obsessed with that movie simply for the colors and the song. I still love the song the message is good even if it was delivered badly.
Growing up now and knowing more about Matoaka its weird its really weird. First Pocahontas was a nickname. She was also really young. Honestly the other side of my family might know more than us, the ones related directly to Matoaka.
Although all seriousness weird movie WEIIRD but great song! Baddd representation
A little off the subject: I think we should cut Princess and the Frog a break. True. Tianna was a frog the whole movie. However, there were PLENTY of blacks in the movie. Dr. Facier was apparently black and a black man did his voice. Mama Odie was black and she was voiced by a black person. Plenty of extras were black. New Orleans Jazz was innovated by blacks even though the composer of the score was black. The black characters were well spoken as well.
The second I saw this I knew I had to click. I had some knowledge about the story being obviously made up, but didn't know the history of specifically the most famous song. So interesting to learn about.
So it sounds like Schwartz mixed up two categories of corn. "Green corn" means corn (of any varietal) that is sprouted but not ripe. "Blue corn" is one varietal of corn. There wouldn't be a special season for blue corn.
And regardless of whether anything of the "Chief Seattle Speech" was ever said by the historical Chief Sealth, it's still hugely different. Sealth was one of the Coast Salish people of the Pacific Northwest; Pocahontas was Algonquin. It would be like looking to an Italian poem to make your movie about Finnish people more "authentically European."
Your "authentically European" example sounds exactly like your typical "medieval European fantasy" setting
The main character in Soul wasn't just a soul for the majority of the film.
Got this in my recommended, what an incredibly well made and informative video! You for sure deserve more subscibers, but I'll at least add the one at my disposal!
It’s a cartoon not a documentary in cartoon form. It’s my favorite Disney movie ❤️🍂
I can see myself in every single Disney movie and hope we can put what they’re message in front of there look.
There are many errors-
1. John was a hero [red flag] in the native story despite he came in THEIR land
2. 'native savage' [noble savage rubs off the wrong way] to justify land exploitation
3. she was a naive teenager that not aware of the darker side of colonial imperialism and fell in love with THEM
1- how is that a red flag ?
2-" savage "
what ?
3- what ?
Commenting because I want to receive notification when this inevitably turns into an argument
same
Thanks for asking these questions about the song, investigating, and sharing what you found!
Honestly I hate that movie it actually offends me. Pocahontas was a real person with a very tragic story . They reduce it down to a cheap and inaccurate cartoonish romance. They could have made a native American story with original characters along those lines and it would have been fine. Quite frankly I think using the name Pocahontas was kind of insulting. The music was okay though I like the song Savages is better than colors of the wind. No they're both pretty good. Just the music not the movie.
If you're looking for children's media that uses Native American culture beyond aesthetics, you might enjoy "Spirit Rangers."
Wow. Thanks for the education as always.
I like Pocahontas.
Is it historically accurate? Probably not.
The lyrics of the song Colors Of The Wind are deeply moving as well as thought provoking, A consciousness about the land, environment.
Is the Thanksgiving narrative completely accurate?
Probably not..
If the Puritan Pilgrims considered the Natives as " savages" they would not sit down to have a common meal with them..
Various kinds of people came over to North America over a few centuries and met an equally varied amount of people. Some of them ended up having good relationships with each other that lasted years. People forget how much can happen in a decade much less a hundred years.
I despise Pocahontas as a movie, besides the stupid representation of the natives being so off. The entire movie is based off the fictionalized events that John Smith made up for clout, whereas his initial diary entries tell of a much more amicable and peaceful interchange.
The movie is misrepresenting history and even tries to end with a happily ever after, forgoing the years of tension and animosity that would arise between the various native tribes and the settlers of Europe. Obviously I’m not expecting a movie like this to retell a fairly uneventful encounter with perfect accuracy, I just hate how this movie dumbs down what would end up being a defining conflict for North America (really all of America, north and south), a conflict we still see today in reservations and tribal land.
If you're looking for children's media that uses Native American culture beyond aesthetics, you might enjoy "Spirit Rangers."
The interesting thing about it all is that…in truth, it served its purpose. As much as we all like to say that we hate it, that it’s a gross representation of the child that tried to strive for peace but was proven wrong and was stolen, we all loved it as a kid. For kid me, she was the only one that looked like me so naturally I loved the movie. Of course now we see that though the intention behind the movie may be sincere, the effect was the opposite of the movie’s message. We are now objectified or put on a pedestal like how creator of Avatar, James Cameron, tries to make indigenous people seem. Yes these movies made us feel joy and though I hate Avatar with all my being, it was the thing that is inspiring me to push to become a writer. Though one criticism I do have is that, they need to step aside and let real indigenous people tell their stories.
If you're looking for kids' media that uses Native American culture beyond aesthetics, you might enjoy "Spirit Rangers."
I do like this movie and the songs along with it.
Now that I know a lot of things was just historical revisionism, I just treat the movie like "fan fiction"
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on Soul. It was an excellent movie about not only black culture, but jazz and musical culture as well. Blackness is more than the color of our skin, it's an experience that the movie captured very well.
it's a pretty movie with pretty music, and i think it contributed to my love of nature and inspired respect for indigenous people (and i'm sure that was a lot of other people's experience). but yeah i'd be scared to try rewatching it. the real story is so upsetting, and it really sucks that they didn't seem to bother getting any input from the people they were making a movie about.
so pretty standard for disney lol
This is such a tricky and conflicting thing to talk about. I want to acknowledge the talent and skill that went into writing the music and the lyrics while also acknowledging that it was culturally inaccurate and problematic and doesn't reflect the people it was trying to portray. I suppose all of these things can be true at once. Either way, great video.
Wow almost like Disney movies never depict any culture accurately 😱
I do think the important thing about the song, despite its flaws, is the way it made animism and an animist approach to the land accessible to non-indigenous and especially white people
Confession:😅 For the longest time, I thought the lyric was "blue foreign moon" meaning that the moon was far away from Earth.
It would be impossible to write an accurate account of events going on today. We all look at the world through a lens of our own life experience and shaped by the influence of others thoughts. You can interpret the same event in different ways from different perspectives. Often we misinterpret events in our own lives even though we experienced them.
The vast majority of history goes unwritten and what is written is really a broad brush account interpreted by biased minds.
An uncomfortable truth.
Every story in reality is made up of a near infinite amount of details. We don’t tend to consider how the microbiomes in peoples guts influenced the behaviours and actions of individuals on any given day. The best we have are stories and if anyone thinks they have the correct story or interpretation they are lying to themselves to cope with the discomfort that we really don’t know shit.
Story telling is problematic by it’s very nature. As is language in general, both are incredibly limited and even once spoken they are then interpreted by other equally biased minds. Its unavoidable.
We live in an ocean of illusion but we are all in it together. Have compassion for one another.
I saw this movie in theaters when it was first released in 1994!
I once wanted to do an essay on this song for an Aboriginal Studies class. When I learned the truth about the "blue corn moon," I went down the rabbit hole and realized how insidious this film REALLY was. I ended up writing about an excellent book written by an aboriginal author instead. I still low-key enjoy "Colors of the Wind," but I don't get the same epic vibes I did before. What a waste! I am embarrassed that I thought of studying a Disney movie in this class (I didn't know better). It's interesting that the line about "the blue corn moon" was the thing that started me in that path. There is no time when corn is blue?! lol
what was the book you wrote about?
@@sikuaq1035 it was "The Marrow Thieves" by Cherie Dimaline. It's kind of a YA apocalyptic adventure with amazing indigenous characters.
Even with soley fictional stories there is much to be used from the different indugenous cultures, and they went this??? Its just weird
This is what happens when someone that clearly doesn't want to write about native Americans, or knows about them, writes about them
If you're looking for children's media that uses Native American culture beyond aesthetics, you might enjoy "Spirit Rangers."
English is not my first language and growing up I only listened to this song translated to my native language so I never payed attention to what the lyrics are in English. In the version I’ve known since childhood she just sings about the wolf crying to the *full moon* and that’s it. All this to say, it was interesting to find out the actual history behind the song
I'm always relieved to find organic, informative content on TH-cam. It's like finding a good apple on a rotting tree.
Thank you.
I love your Tiktoks and am so happy to have you come across my feed!
I actually didn't mind that disney only had like 1 black character before tiana bc i loved all the princesses. I'm mixed (white mother black father) i saw myself in all coloured princesses.
I loved watching all the disney movies as a kid, I just always found it weird when people started talking about how problematic they are because they are exaggerated and fantastical, they're kids movies, all these tropes are par for the course. I never took it as a documentary or show of the culture, nor did I look to king arthur to see what knights and britain were like.
People honestly get too easily offended
Assassin’s Creed 3 might be considered one of the black sheep of the franchise next to Unity, Odyssey, Syndicate, Valhalla and Mirage, but at least that game got Native American culture correctly than this movie and that original Peter Pan.
THANK YOU! I have always been very entranced by this song for the same reasons you mentioned… white female born in ‘85 so I was a target audience for Disney at the time. Your video is spot on, thanks for making it. Subscribed!!!
Idc this movie is iconic to me and this song is beautiful to this day, think the message is still there
In Portuguese they translated that part as "blue moon" so it fits in the song lenght, that's why I never understood why they put corn in the middle 😂 always wondered if it was a normal saying by native speakers
No one will ever get us right
Might have to do it yourself then.
You might be interested in "Spirit Rangers." It's a kids' cartoon that uses Native American culture beyond aesthetics.
I’m so glad to know “blue corn moon” was made up because I had no idea what that was 😅
I'm pretty sure a corn moon is supposed to mean the same thing as the term harvest moon but I could be wrong.
Aw man, how am I going to learn how to paint with the colors of the wind now?
If you're in north america, please consider doing some research into the tribes near you and the issues they face. Chances are, they're still fighting for clean water and to protect their sacred sites. A huge issue right now is lithium mining; it only exists to save the auto industry, and it's destroying sacred sites and poisoning drinking water across the west right now.
Colors of the wind goes hard
My dad always likes to talk about what was drawn from history and what was fabricated for movies, ever since i was a kid. So, eveb as a kid, I knew this movie and song was inaccurate and the older i grow, the more I know how tragic the inaccuracies are. But i still like this movie and song 😅
Pocahontas was one of my favorite movies as a kid, and I thought she was the coolest and wanted to be like her. It definitely gave me an ignorant, stereotyped idea of native culture that persisted for many years after. It’s heart-breaking to know the real story and how much damage the film did to her legacy, the Powhatan people, and the perceptions of indigenous peoples in popular culture. The other stories about indigenous people I was consuming as a kid (such as The Indian in my Cupboard, Walk Two Moons, and The Sign of the Beaver) were also often very problematic. I’m glad that nowadays it is so much easier and more common for children to be reading and watching authentic stories from different cultures.
Question: are there any films about Phocahontas that got it right or semi-right?
If it works disney got Wingapo right.
Also I was so angry when I learned they hired a white woman to sing Pocahontas's voice, so upsetting they did the same thing even just a few years ago when they got a white guy to voice prince Navine, but "its fine because he's Brazilian" omg Disney what is your problem? Not probably the worst things about this film but its just every single thing seems to be rooted in racism and its so frustrating, i think one of the worst things is this is children's media as a child I had no idea that the horrific "red man red" song from Peter Pan wasn't based on actual history in my defense I was four and when my mom said it was racist I barely knew what racist meant and no one explained why it was racist I thought it was true so I didn't see how it could be racist that's why these things are so problematic they not only hurt the viewers that are being "represented" they teach kids to do awful racist things under the guys of a magical beautiful story they love causing so much misunderstanding confusion and ultimately more racist beliefs entrapped in magical boxes of fantasy and love its insidious I don't know any other word for it 😠
In regards to "Peter Pan," the film was based on a book from a time where certain prejudices were commonplace. As for Naveen, it's not that uncommon for colored people to voice white characters, too. In "The Batman" (2004), a black man voiced Joker and the actor is close friends with Mark Hamil (the voice actor people most associate with the Joker), and Hunter from "The Owl House" was also voiced by a black guy.
I know it’s problematic, but this song also goes so hard.
I never had an issue with the film, i think it portrays the nature of hate and how misunderstandings can lead to worse things accurately.
But it does have its flaws and i think it does romantise the native American's a bit, but compared to peter pan this film has a way better representation of native Americans.
If you're looking for children's media that uses Native American culture beyond aesthetics, check out "Spirit Rangers."
Your voice is so perfect for video I’m just saying how you talk and sound sounds like someone announcing the news it’s just so good it’s hard for me to explain it.
I really loved this movie as a kid, and nastolgia is definitely a factor but to be honest I still do. I certainly can't love it the same way knowing how poorly they portrayed native people and romanticized a real (very messed up) historical event, but the animation, music, and message (tho not executed perfectly) of preserving nature and respecting other culters always have and will stick with me as beautiful things. If Pocahontas ever gets rebooted or a new movie addressing native struggles comes out I hope it's done with actual native writers, directors, and artists on the team! It's their story to tell, after all!
I'm Dine and love Disney Pocahontas anyways. If they just named the character something else it would've probably been better. The theme of the movie isn't bad. I love me some peace keeping between nations. I know it's not history but it's what I'd wanna teach my children first. We can cover the ugliness of the world when they are older. As children I want them seeking peace and loving people.
It was a really cool video ! I'm currently trying to educate myself on BIPOC culture (btw, if anyone has reliable sources to push my learnings further please let me know) and maybe even eventually to do enough to become an ally. I'm just a little disappointed that the contrast between the song & actual native american culture wasn't really fully explained/showed.
4:01 If it's like that, then noone was represented in The Lion King since there were no humans. Cars likely had lots of trouble with representation considering there are no humans and all the characters were motor vehicles.
Regarding the speech from Chief Seattle, does any of the original remain in some way where people can find it without the layers of alterations?
The movie has always made me uncomfortable, as a kid the only thing I knew about Pocahontas was that she was a kid and was forced to marry later, that’s all I’d heard in school, so the movie felt wrong, but I’ve always loved the song so much. One of my favorite songs of all time, I didn’t understand the concept of cultural or political themes, I just heard a song about love and wonder and how it’s for everyone and not something you just take.
I understand why it is seen as problematic but at the same time it gave you the important thing that is representation. I live in Poland and most of the things we knew at that time about Native Americans was through American media we stumbled upon. You can call it ignorance but if you didn't know of the Natives how you supposed to learn about them? (especially when Poland was in terrible place then). Disney did the very important thing of showing that Native people are not their stereotype often used in comedic way. They presented them as real people and, although they took historical names that made it problematic, they presented to kids the truth of how the colonization was brutal but not showing too much brutality.
The truth is that people always will complain about the representation they get. Hell, I am Polish one of the most unsatisfied and most complaining nations on the planet so I would know 😅
But it is your representation so you obviously have a right to critisize it.
Although for me and many other people it gave a possibility of learning about true story behind it when we were at the proper age for the true story. For me Pocahontas is a good foundation to lay for kids to learn more about truth of the history and culture of Native Americans.
Btw, the Pocahontas' song is changed a little in translation here so we don't have the 'blue corn moon' and it is sang by the very accomplished singer Edyta Górniak. It is a masterpiece how it was sung, the emotions behind the song always move me to the core. Mainly it is because my country at the time it was conquered had songs with a similar sentiment to them and it just saddened me that there were more people who gone through the brutalities of war and cultural and literal colonization.
Also, thank you for the very informative video.
i always loved this song (and the art of the movie) despite all its flaws, *and there are a lot of flaws.* i think part of loving art is acknowledging its mistakes.
I subscribed. I'm two minutes in. 👏
What a great video! I still love the song but I’m glad I know the history of it now
This is my favorite movie and song, I never realized how made up the story is compared to the origin story.
In my opinion a lot would’ve been solved if it wasn’t based off a real person. I remember finding out about that as a kid and feeling upset even though I loved it. Yeah their dead, but they were still people.
In a weird way I guess it brings attention to an awful event. Even if it's not intentional
Did "Brother Bear" get the same backlash?
Tiana is my favorite princess but I can't stand frog part. But as character yes I love her. I have Tiana everything. I make it a pt to meet her on my birthday march 31st at Disneyland n they make it hard believe they do smh. Lately I been making hard on apirl 1st smh. I wrote letters to Disneyland 4 lack their is of her n merchandise smh. U r so right n r on pt especially about soul n lion king. I am a Disneyland fan n disney movie fan n music ..but i do know the truth smh. N i know what is up especially with the upcoming ride n them ppl r hating hard smh. I dont care for her having that ride. I want her to have a diff one. But ppl dont need to mean r racist smh. But thanks for this.
this song makes me cry and is one of my favorite songs to sing so i literally dont care lol