Charlie Parker: The Levin/Wilson Controversy part 1.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ม.ค. 2018
- On September 9 1949 Down Beat magazine printed an interview with Bebop Jazz legend Charlie Parker. Since that date scholars have been arguing about just what he actually meant in many of his statements. In this series I try to give a theoretical explaination, explaining how his remarks may lead to the origins of Bebop Scales.
No Copyright infringement intended this is for research and education purpose only.
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Everybody talks about Bird getting laughed off stage like it made him go home and turn his life around that night, but no one really ever discusses how he quit playing because of it for almost a year. That's a powerful piece of knowledge that more young cats, like myself, should have.
So what? Little ego-deflating helps anyone. Charlie Parker was a pompous arse, and then slightly softened after criticism, turned to practising more. That kind of thing happens in the classical world ALL THE TIME, and no classical musician, who has any respect for tradition and has a modest view of own merits, would make so much fuss about it! But unfortunately, Parker's lack of good breeding and addiction to fame grew into a plague. People mindlessly connected his later style with his previous sloppiness and lack of commitment. His greatest loss as a musician, and a man, was in not correcting the others, and it is the loss of all who follow that example. Finding an excuse in Charlie Parker, hordes of the untalented hurled into the music genre, which very quickly became UNLISTENABLE.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 WOw you're right. This comment caused me to entirely re-evaluate the enjoyment I find in Bird's music. Before being enlightened by your wisdom, I foolishly thought of him as one of the most impressive saxophonists who'd ever improvised; however I now see the truth. He was nothing more than a vehicle for you to express your personal discontent through.
@@lowenderjones UNLISTENABLE
/s
Yours in music from KC🙂
@@zvonimirtosic6171 I had to re-read your comment to understand what you are saying, I hope. Maybe you are saying that, those musicians who were influenced by Bird, saw his undedicated approach to playing his horn when he was young and thought that they could achieve a similar proficiency without the necessary dedication that Bird gave to his self-education later. But the musicians who were influenced by Charlie Parker heard him when he was almost fully formed and not in his early years in Kansas City. Right? (I'm not on your intellectual level so I'm using this to stretch my brain a little.) I don't understand your mention of lack of breeding. Are you placing blame for his drug addiction on poor moral guidence in his childhood? That might have had a little to do with it but addicts come from all backgrounds. Musicians thought that they could play better on drugs from observing Bird's example but he didn't advocate drug use. I'm just trying to understand what you're saying.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 white man opinion of a black legend.
An excellent review on Charlie Parker's genius in Jazz and without discussion the first man ever playing the real Bebop music. He was real great !!!
Excellent and insightful analysis! I look forward to more.
I just watched this video and was blown away. Then I read the comments. I give the producers all the credit in the world. They poured their heart and soul into this. Now that we have several weighing in, just maybe they can go back, do some further research and clean up some of the inaccuracies. Give these guys respect and give them a chance to improve on their work. I am just appreciative to have more insight into Bird's brilliant career and the monumental influence he had over American jazz. What we preserve as history is important to get it as accurate as possible. The music speaks for itself and Bird is a national treasure. Would love to know when/if there is a Part 2.
Part 2 is already on you tube - look in the playlist for Levin/Wilson.
"Music is your own experience." -- Bird
That is where Bird went utterly wrong. Schizophrenia is one's own experience, but music and art are shared experiences because they are an elevated form of mutual communication.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 That's a very oversimplified view. Conversation may be a shared experience but individual participants speak from their own experience. To say otherwise is to state we all think the same and debate between individuals cannot exist. When you go into an Art gallery and look at a painting do you really need anyone else there to give the artwork meaning ,and if you are the artist do you really need an audience to make the Art worthwhile to you - Think Goya's black paintings. Someone recorded Parker playing an unaccompanied Alto solo on Honey and Body in 1940 - where is the shared experience in that. th-cam.com/video/vKFnBLljsk0/w-d-xo.html
I am an absolute genius in the shower. Weird.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 where bird went wrong was heroin, there is nothing "utterly wrong" in his music or his approach to it. he codifed the bebop language, and had world-class technique on the alto.
This is wonderful and informative. Thank you.
Thanks for posting this. Very interesting to hear Parker’s own views on Bop. Keep up the good work Andy.
I need to get on with video 2 in this series which outlines the reaction to this interview. Really interesting subject this Down Beat article.
Bird, Dizz, Trane, Miles...all master of Jazz. Thank you for making this!
Very good...one quibble - when you mention Budd Johnson, the photo is of Illinois Jacquet.
Filled with great info, I can see the amount work you put in it. Thanks!
Good analysis. Great work. Thankyou.
When you practice Charlie's music, you can feel him standing there teaching you how to reach your own potential
Jimi Hendrix taught me to play guitar. No... I didn’t know him personally. But he was there at certain times. That may sound crazy but to me it was absolutely real. Then after a few years of learning very quickly, he said, now it’s time to learn how to play like you and I never felt his presence again. I stopped emulating him completely and my style of playing completely changed. So I absolutely believe your statement. These players know who really want to learn and if we call on them, I’d swear they show up to help us...
@@BCTGuitarPlayer Thank you so much & God bless you! now that I read your comment I have a deeper faith & indescribable feeling of being connected!
@@babakmardani1317: Well..if you look our DNA on the strand that shows blood cousins; we are all identical on that line. So, we are either very close (blood) cousins, generally within 10 generations or it goes back even farther. So, the fact is, the human race is literally all related by a very long line of cousins, and therefore, family. Energy is never destroyed, it only changes form and therefore we do not cease to exist after this life. Rather, we most likely go on to a form of quantum physics where our very thoughts create the things we see and feel around us. Sound crazy? I’m convinced of it. Don’t ask me why... I just do;)
I am only scratching the surface of his amazing playing but I have felt exactly what your statement means.
Peace.
@@BCTGuitarPlayer Wow..same here..the calling on them and actually hearing them on tape egging me on..and the energy changes form...absoulutely..you get it..
Charlie Yardbird Parker was the GREATEST JAZZ, SAX PLAYER, EVER! TO THIS, VERY DAY, NOBODY'S BETTER!
Stop shouting...we hear you. Sheesh.
thank you very much for the reading . well read and good article . cheers from belgium
Thanks for the vid. I was unaware of Charlie's early influences. Quite the genius he was. I still can't play like him.
Why would you want to? Find out who you are.
Very interesting. Thank you.
Hi Bebop Review, - just discovered your site, and it's a breath of fresh air, - just subbed and looking forward to digging in to your content, thanks for the work you've put in! From a fellow Brit, Manchester in fact, - small world, I saw you joined YT or started the site on Sept the 18th, that's my birthday, - serendipity at work me thinks LOL, Cheers, Gus ;)
Happy Birthday Gus!
@@darnellprice9396 Many thanks Darnell - appreciated! Cheers & congrats on YOUR site birthday! many more to come! - Gus ;)
Very well put together I definitely learned/saw some things I hadn’t before which is saying a lot lol. Best wishes from DC
Very interesting piece. In the short clip we have of Bird speaking to other musicians (approx 13 mins) he seems so vague to be either off his head or disingenuous. This piece sheds light on that. I’m a great fan of Lee Konitz (a friend and peer of Bird who had to effectively recreate the alto sound and rhythmic approach in order not to simply get sucked into Bird’s orbit like Sonny Stitt or James Moody). I’ve spoken to Lee and read stuff about him and he reminds me of Bird in that he shuns talk of technique, of notes, of chords. Bird remains an enigma. I can’t imagine Bird going the hard bop line (eg. early Coltrane, the Messengers). Rather, and there’s such irony here, I see him being more attracted to where Lennie Tristano was going from 1949 onwards. By 1949 Tristano, Konitz, Warne Marsh and Billy Bauer - part of the Tristano sextet - had experimented with atonality: 4 tracks on Capitol. Exasperated recording engineers who Lennie had asked to let the tapes keep rolling destroyed two performances but ‘Intuition’ and ‘Digression’ survived. They were actually pushed hard by DJ Symphony Sid. Miles Davis, not a natural bopper, is on record as digging where Tristano was at. Lennie, who loved Bird, is reported to have said if Bird could kick the dope he could play with Lennie’s set-up (a set up not unlike Charlie Mingus’). Lennie could have got Bird up to speed theoretically to the point that I think Bird’s hazy ideas about studying with Edgar Varese in Paris could have materialised quickly. Speculation. Tristano wrote two influential articles for Downbeat: ‘What’s Good About Bebop’ and ‘What’s Bad About Bebop’.
This complexity happened a few years later, from the harmony of Monk's tunes, to Bill Evans, to the Miles Davis Quintet with Shorter, Hanckocks and friends. Jazz has become harmonically complex and extremely sophisticated, in a way tha a small combo can sound like an orchestra, in terms of voices that coexist in the flow, with finely selected intervals in a very articulated counterpoint.
Charlie Parker has put the foundation of this development, when he showed all musicians that they could play whatever note in whatever key. Yes, he made it in a Bop style, but the talented musicians that heard him play understood what Parker had realized in his freedom to improvise as he did. His lesson - although spontaneous and non intellectual - became a very prolific seed.
M. G. Krøger Spontaneous and non intellectual? No. Stop it.
You should watch my next up coming video on Parker's Perdido. You may change your mind on your 'non intellectual' statement.
Well, it's been said here that he had that kind of approach, in a way, that's what you made me understand. I fell like it's impossible to reduce in categories the experience of a musical genius, so, I did not mean at all he was just instinct. But here it was seen a bit in this way, at least that's the impression I had from this video. If I misunderstood, or course, I apologize.
@@bebopreview3187 Charlie Parker's music is highly intelligent. But it is not "intellectual". When it comes time for Bird to improvise, he plays what he hears and feels. Not what he thinks. His music is spontaneous. That's why it communicates.
@@alainjames9556 Yes but there was thinking behind it - so it is intellectual - you should also watch my next video. Not as spontaneous as you may think.
great job making this video!
Charlie was definitely a genius man I love his personality.
a musical genius
Charles Mingus kind of brought back the big band. He did some really cool stuff with a jazz orchestra.
Paul TheSkeptic Mingus !!! Greatest Jazz Composer!!!
He seemed to be heading in that direction from 1961-1963 with Black Saint, Pre-Bird, and the Town Hall concert, before his career hit a rough patch. I wish he could have done more work with orchestras.
Thad and Mel
Thanks for making this video. 10:36 is not Bud Johnson. Its the one and only Illinois Jacquet
One note from Bird , beautiful. The brightest stars burn out the fastest. Thanks for the intro.
Well done!
Lester Young, Mary Lou Williams, Efferge Ware, Gene Ramey...many people contributed to Parker's harmonic concept and helped him work it out either directly or by listening to their music.
Very interesting. I never read that interview before; I didn't know that he had said that about bop and jazz.
From what I have read of him, I never got the impression that Bird was a pompous person.
Very well done
Does Part 2 Exist?
They referred to him as "chubby little alto man" in that newspaper. 5'11" is not little.
yeah lol the early 1900s heavyweight champ jack johnson "galveston giant" was 6 foot... random but for comparison...bruh they did him dirty in that newspaper
He got chubbier as he got older, I think.
But, yeah, he wasn’t short, by any means
written12 Sadly Charlie died young at age 34 a heroin addict.
In fact, a lot of those cats were under 5'10". I think Monk was about 6 ft. or so, though.
@@skineyemin4276 ...Thelonious Sphere Monk, Sr. was six feet and two inches tall.
Love the photo with Red Rodney!
In 1991, I was in college and we (University of MN, Duluth - Jazz 1) were in competition at the Eau Claire Jazz Festival (University of WI, Eau Claire). During competition, the hall was dark and we couldn't see who the judges were. After performing, one appeared out of the dark to critique us... it was Red Rodney! I'm not sure most of us got past the fact that it was actually Red Rodney talking to us. It was a fantastic experience and he was not only brilliant but also very cordial. As he walked away, he kept pointing and saying "This man knows what he's doing!" referring to our director Dave Schmalenberger. The only thing that made the experience better was that we won that year. Fast forward 3 years later and I was a college senior and we were at the Kansas University Jazz Festival with UMD Jazz 1. I clearly remember Bob Mintzer mentioning how sick Red Rodney was. Sadly, he was gone the next month. God Bless Albino Red!!
imagine inventing a language no one else speaks fluently nor even knows its alphabet but a very few understand syllables. that's what parker was to this universe.
Mary Lou Williams is a somewhat unheralded figure in the development of the harmony of Bebop, particularly her influence on Monk
@Drop the Chalupa! Nice one. Yeah I first read about her in Miles's autobiography I think and it sounded liker her home was an institution (the other institution being Minton's) where all the early bebopers used to go, gather around a piano, and she would play and talk about harmony, as well as host. Sounds like she was an amazing lady, and I think she did some large-scale arranging as well, including work for Duke, not on the Fletcher Henderson level arrangement wise perhaps but substantial work. I always think of bebop as an evolution, which occurred because many of these outstanding musicians were pushing the language and harmonic boundaries, not just Bird and Dizzy.
Are there additional parts to this? Thanks for posting this.
Amazing video
Nice! Thank you
AWESOME!
Excellent!!!! 😎👍👍
imo charlie parker was the best saxophonist of all time in jazz history period he stood out from the rest you can hear it in his music
DUH.........
Full blown genius comparable to a Mozart only with spontaneous soul and feeling. Every racist in this world needs to bow their head in reverence to this incomparable musician. .
Without question.
Bill Hunter And here I am taking a little break from politics in hopes I wouldn't have a to hear about racism
Cannonball
Bought my first Bird album in 1973. First thought. All Blues
Shawnuff was written by Bird but Diz put his stamp on it. My favorite trumpet player that worked with Bird was Fast Navarro, with Max on drums
Bird is a genius musician but let’s not take everything he said/claimed as gospel truth just because he quoted it to a magazine. He claimed he liked Lester’s playing but wasn’t influenced by it? Other accounts have him spending an entire summer in the Ozarks learning Lester solos note for note. I would say that indicates you are “influenced” by Lester.
Not only did he like Lester’s playing, Ross Russell’s book 'Bird Lives' recounts tales of him sneaking into a theater to listen to Basie’s band - including Lester Young - practice! Bird was definitely influenced by Pres. You can hear that he mimics Young’s swagger and relaxed sense of arrangement.
For Pete’s Sake … this video even circles the WRONG man as Eckstein!
@@idcook I wish I were as in the know as you guys
@@ianmoore5502 There’re plenty of great sources offering contemporary accounts of Bird as a person and as a musician.
If you want to learn a LOT while sitting in your easy chair seek out Phiil Schapp’s birthday broadcasts. His Parker presentations tend to run for at least two to three days. Offering every known Bird recording and interviews.
Ofcause he was influenced from Lester Young, just listen to some of his early recordings as for instend " My heart tells me ".
He is only quoted, how can we know that he really said all this.
Loved watching & listening to this considered, heartfelt documentary. Thank you. Bird was a Cat!
Jazz has two periods.....before Parker and after Parker.
True and jazz has many periods...before kind of blue and after or before bitches brew and after...jazz like all American music is always morphing, growing, changing. It's in it's nature to do so. And as you point out there are truly specific markers where sizeable transformations occur.. identifying them, anàlyizing those movements is a great pastime and a life long study...
Excellent !!
Part 2?
This is cool but Thelonious Monk deserves credit for moving the music to Bebop too
teach
Absolutely!!!
thanks ...
In interviews by Williams and also Dizzy, they both mention impromptu sessions in her apartment late at night, where Mary Lou Williams taught Dizzy and Monk reharmonization of chord sequences for about three years. Parker used to drop in and hang out occasionally. This is part of Bebop's history.
I read somewhere Monk saying that he wanted to call it bip-bop, but "I guess they didn't hear me right" ....
Legendary pianist and pedagogue Lennie Tristano (whose student Lee Konitz, friendly with Bird, created an alto alternative rooted in Prez) also said outright that there was only Charlie Parker at the heart of bop.
The video description at the top is slightly confusing, based on the comments I'm seeing. This entire video 25 minute video is a verbatim reading of the 1949 Downbeat story on Parker mentioned in the video description. The description also mentions the fact that this is part of a series, with new analysis by the video creator, etc. That's all fine and good, but none of the new analysis is here in "episode 1", in case you are confused about who's words you are hearing. Michael Levin and John S. Wilson wrote the piece read here 70 years ago.
True but didn't I make that clear in the title. This series requires a lot of work and research. To be clear it's called the levin/ Wilson Controversy because that is what it is. This is how I have it planned in my head. Part 2 will also be quoting people who question Parkers assertions and most of it will concentrate on the breakthrough Parker said he had with Biddy Fleet. Part 3 will be a very technical explaination of that breakthrough using a lot of graphics. Possibly not true but interesting all the same because it does explain in a way why Parker liked playing b9ths and the possible origin of Bebop scales. However, some of the stupid horrid comments about my accent (which I've deleted) don't actually inspire me to carry on with this series.
@@bebopreview3187 You did a great job on the reading, and my comment wasn't intended as a negative review. If you had prefaced the reading with a very brief introduction of yourself as a narrator and restated the fact that the listener would be hearing the words of the Down Beat writers, some of the silly "you are so wrong!" comments might have been avoided, or at least rephrased as "Downbeat was so wrong!" :) But stupid comments cannot be avoided on any TH-cam video with more than 15 views.
Thanks for the explanation.
@@bebopreview3187 I have to admit that I was one of those who poked fun at your accent because I found it somewhat distracting.
But it wasn’t particularly mean or nasty, and I appreciate the information you’ve put forth.
@@bebopreview3187 You should pin that comment of yours. I mean - great plan and all - but I'd like to strongly encourage you to fulfill your original plan. The way it stands now is somehow a disservice to history. And - besides people making fun of your accent (you should shake it off) - they're taking the interview's content for fact.
Imho, You are on the right track, as long as you follow it through.
What song is played in the beginning?
Parker's Mood (it's an alternate take)
To me (poor amateur jazz player), be-bop is a radical evolution of swing jazz, but still strongly related to it. For instance Coleman Hawkins already played sophisticated chord extensions in his solos (#11, b9, #9, 13, tritonic substitutions...) way back before be-bop. Rhytmical evolutions, accentuations, ... along with faster flows of notes have emerged in be-bop themes and solos this is true. But I do not hear any opposition between traditional jazz and bop. Generations of musicians respect older and younger ones.
Parker heard Hawkins, Hawkins listened to Parker for instance, both respected each other !
I agree. CP's assertation that bop was completely unrelated to jazz was just Charlie being his own press agent. He was no dummy.
Bop was a natural evolution and was steeped in the blues as well.
Wow! The man was a musical god genius and he didn't even know it.
"One never knows, do one?" Robert Wyatt said, "The problem with talent is that you never know if you have any."
This makes clear Bird was a genius with an immense and still unexplored vision for music. I think we may have seen only the tip of the iceberg he would've ultimately created, wasn't he taken from us by his drug abuse.
By 1953 he was endlessly repeating himself. An improviser can only grow to a certain point if he relies on himself for inspiration. All the great improvisers reached a peak and didn't develop any further. Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Mahler, Armstrong, Pres, Bird, Dizzy, Miles, Monk, etc. It's the nature of the beast.
nobody took bird from us..he willingly left.( or unwillingly)...but it's called dope for a reason.. and unfortunately the folks & musicians who worshipped him went down the same street.. that being said it's Bird's music we should all keep our focus on..
@@pgroove163l0
Interesting that Bird and Bruce Lee shared the same opinions on forms and traditions.
When I listen to Art Tatum solo recordings, I feel like the roots of bebop are in tatum’s musical ideas
XplusX12345678 finnally someone else who understand how much tatum contributed and bird plays many tatum lines slightler altered that swing more
And Charlie Parker loved Art Tatum which is why I find it somewhat inconceivable that Charlie Parker had never heard of Louis Armstrong.
Skin EyemIn You are right ! I remember Parker quoting in one of his solos the famous Louis Armstrong’s West End Blues introduction. Hard to believe he never heard or appreciated him. I believe those theories separating be-bop from swing jazz completely off the reality.
@@lajavaantoine2796 line construction typical of Bebop includes circling tones ie playing the note above and below your target note which is a chord tone. One can insist that those tones be chromatic.The bop scale which includes an extra half step between the 6and 5th note. The harmonic implications of this scale form the basis of the resurgence of interest in it. The use of diminished arpegios and scale which is also connected to the 1st 2 features. Dexter liked that. If you add in the alt scale which addresses melodic minor asc and its modes which Powell used a piece of ie (diminished wholetone ) on dominant chords than you might be getting closer to Trane/Evans/Shorter/Herbie. But the intellegent use of these things might probably yield a higher linear chromatic density than Tatum. Which to me sounds more diatonic but he'd do stuff like randomly modulate the tune if he felt like it hell I think he was beyond monstrous . So but if you learn to effectively incorporate the 1st 3 approaches you gonna sound like 1953.
Well, that has always been obvious. It was Tatum's flawless technique while playing jazz the help to stimulate the bebop art form. Charlie Parker wasn't classically trained, neither was Dizzy. Bud Powell was and even Monk for a time.
Fantastic. What a man.
Rudy Vallee is from my hometown! We have a Rudy Vallee Square in Westbrook ME commemorating him! Crazy to think that someone from where I’m from inspired Bird to be Bird
Nice narrative. Northern English jazz insights are inherently dependable. Bop was born on guitar. I suspected the parallel 4th and repeating minor thirds and augmented patterns on some axe-man's ES-150 had fomented those ideas. Now I see why Miles went back to the guitar in 1970. And whoa ! Basie has got to be jazz'z most significant figure, he was already leading top NY bands whose players were buying 18y-old bird his own horn, lol ! wow. And those early pictures of miles show what a similar man to bird he is. Pity about the 'H'. Thanks for posting, our kid. Peace
It's fascinating hearing this kind of thing from Parker because bebop to me is very much the zenith of jazz music. I wonder would be have gotten into the whole fusion thing if he lived longer? I don't really like any fusion I've heard, certainly not to the same degree I adore bop and classical jazz
Thank you. More detail than Bird lives but less of formative influence of guitar player in Ozarks Mo. Was the Eldon Mo.???? Name of guitar player
?
Efergee Ware.
Thank you again
New song Bebop F or G
So true.
Where is Part 2?
Probably get round to it sometime next month.
Bebop review umm
@@bebopreview3187 Time to make one soon now then?
What was the name of that guy who was the first inspiration to Parker? Rudy something?
The article states the name as Rudy Vallee. However, this is most certainly a misquote and should read as Rudy Wiedoeft (C melody sax) who was an early US saxophone virtuoso and influence the young Parker along with Jimmy Dorsey (Alto sax) who shared Wiedoeft's virtuosity.
BE-BOP- SKIDDLEY- BOP!!
Bird and Bud, and first disciples like Newk, really changed music in a revolutionary way.Once you've absorbed their sounds you hear music in a different way
Fats Navarro.
@@skineyemin4276 Indeed Fats Navarro and Dizzy should be mentioned, and of course Monk.
@@stevenbosky8451 Well, Monk's a given, even if he is not mentioned here, but, cats like Navarro are never talked about enough, like Barry Harris, however, Barry is 9 to 12 years younger than the class of Bird and his bebop contemporaies.
@@skineyemin4276 Navarro was Dizzy's musical son. Miles was the only trumpet player who didn't play like Dizzy.
@@farshimelt Well, I don't think Navarro sounded like Dizzy, really. To be honestI don't remember too many cats sounding like Dizzy, but, okay. Who did Bud Powell sound like? Bird, Dizzy, Bud and much of Billy Eckstine's big band were already developing the bebop concept.
Great story.
In my experience it seems that non-musicians like to label musical "types". I've found that one note suggests another, one phrase invents another, one rhythm "mistake" invents another rhythm and/or phrase. It's just music.
It's not "just music" there are scales, modes, phrases, rhythms and ultimately styles. Music and especially American jazz and American music as a whole, historically moves through specific periods, each period marked by specificq phrasing, scale preferences, etc. Jazz is like a river, always moving, growing morphing, changing and yet it it is still the river...and how cool is that? Amazing...there are forms, chord structured that due to their harmonic nature, have constant change built into them... So sure it's one note after another but it's a hell of a lot more than that....and I for one am glad it is.
His solos with McShann are hardly "rudimentary". Are you kidding?
Listen to "Honeysuckle Rose" for heaven's sake!
Dazzling technique, lyricism, beauty of sound and mastery of his horn are already in place.
Yes that is true but it's very swing orientated. I think Levin and Wilson were comparing his early work to his later powerhouse playing. If we compare something like his solo on 'jumping the blues' which was recorded with Mcshann, to his later 'Parker's mood' the earlier piece does seem rudimentary in comparison - but still lovely.
@@bebopreview3187 It is not "rudimentary". By comparison or any other way. It is beautiful art. It stands on its own. It has its own quality of power. And - speaking again about his solo on "Honeysuckle Rose" - his agility on his horn, his harmonic sense, his line, his beautiful influence from Lester Young - I can't think of any subsequent alto players - with the exception of Lee Konitz - who even approached his level. "Rudimentary" is misleading and kind of insulting.
@@alainjames9556 We will just have to disagree on this. Perhaps you just don't like the terminology. What has beauty to do with it. Mozart's Music is very beautiful and 'rudimentary' compared to the complex polyphony of the high renaissance. I've said this in my Critical video on Adam Neely and elsewhere that music does not advance and get better like maths it just changes. However some music is more complex than others - nothing to do with time period. Parkers Later work is more complex and more brilliant. I can prove this to you if you want.
@@bebopreview3187 "Rudimentary" is defined as, "relating to an immature, undeveloped, or basic form." There is nothing immature or undeveloped in Bird's early work - as exemplified by the music he made in 1940. It is brilliant. If you want to argue that his later work is even more brilliant, have at it. But I must admit, it is a subject of no interest to me. I love Bird's early work, and I love "Parker's Mood". I see no need to compare them. Obviously, Charlie Parker evolved and matured - as great artists do. My only point is that these first solos by Charlie Parker are already fully formed - brilliant - harmonically complex - full of feeling - and the term "rudimentary" is in this context shallow, meaningless, and patronizing.
@@alainjames9556 Like I said we will just have to disagree and I will be answering your comment in a video in the future which may be of interest to some people.
Love it when the Parker quotes are talked in a Yorkshire accent😂
😅😂
sounds like Geoff Boycott
Is that what that is? Yorkshire. Pronouncing the Y at the end of the word like a short A, interesting.
@@malcolmpalm And "says" instead of said. I am American and all English accents sound the same to me.
@@peterashford7855 I know, I found that particularly upsetting too!
The beauty of Bop is that it left all the senseless riffs and pre-practiced fills in the dust. melodic innovation, rhythmic innovation, an artist had to think in realtime, dragging the harmonic structure with him, on the way to the top again . . . where it must both make sense and be topical.
As a rocker, I am surrounded by an ocean of pointless riffs and fills. I find myself glad that the boppers exceeded that "brain on autopilot" level of creativity. Certainly, new riffs were developed, so derivative players could stay current. But the thrust of the Bop movement was exploration of harmony, while trying to trick folks trying to count, rather than feel, the beat.
For example: th-cam.com/video/g2EEUbIroMs/w-d-xo.html
Best thing about this is it put Jan Horne in my feed.
thanks sean bean
Ha, I use to play with Sean when I was a kid. I lived in Killamarsh and my dad sometimes worked for a guy called Sam Ward who made fairground rides. Sean Bean's dad was a friend of Sam Ward and visited him regularly; so me and my brothers, the Ward kids and Sean would play together. The firm is still going strong with Ward's sons now in command.😄
@@bebopreview3187 i could tell from the accent you must be from the same part of yorkshire and the same time :-) im over 't hill on the borders of saddleworth... nice video . i am a fan more of hard bop (im only 34 so bebop feels like hundreds of years ago sometimes ) i have some blue note 10" i enjoy though - with jay jay johnson and clifford brown , i love understanding where the music comes from and particularly the theory / harmonic evolution side of it as a musician... it gets over analysed nowadays and people forget these things happened naturally really ...
Interesting video. I am a great fan of Parker's music. Much as I admire Parker, I don't agree with his statement that Bop is not jazz. I feel that I can see a relationship with the Be Bop style which he developed, and other forms of jazz Perhaps it's just semantics. Most importantly, we can still hear lots of recordings of Bird's wonderful music.
By saying Bebop was not Jazz Parker was trying to distance himself from the New Orleans Revivalists who were giving his music such a hard time (although by 1949 they had lost the argument to the Modernist critics - see my video the great critics war 1942 to 47). Parker had also had a dig at them in his 1947 interview with metronome (see my video Yardbird flies home) calling New Orleans Ancient music. I don't think Parker really believed what he was saying but if you ever get to read the 'Fundermentalist rags' of the 1940s as I have done you can understand his point of view at this time. In later interveiws in the 50s Parker praised New Orleans Jazz and refrained from saying Bebop was not Jazz. Part 2 will be my next video release.
@@kasperbolding18 Certainly in his early days Parker was influenced by Lester Young, but be-bop is different from swing as I have shown in my video series HTPB, and Parker contributed more to Bop than anyone; including his influences. This is why we call him a genius. Part 2 will be a criticism of Parker's statements.
@@bebopreview3187 To my ear, Coleman Hawkins and Roy Eldridge had styles which came closest to Bop.
@@ianbeddowes5362 Interesting that both thoes players were sympathetic to the new style. Hawkins although firmly ground in swing even led the first band to play bop on record in 1944. I think the closest player to Bop in the late days of the swing era was Charlie Christian. th-cam.com/video/Ce9Jtl9D6FQ/w-d-xo.html
@@ianbeddowes5362 Harmonically but not rhythmically. The great dividing lines in jazz are rhythmic. New Orleans, Swing, Bop, Fusion, etc. have distinct rhythmic feels.
what type of accent is that?
TH-cam is so much better than TV nowadays !
Shhh! Don't tell anyone!
Narrating over the few film extracts of Parker playing, is not recommended.
Really. Very irritating.
We don’t like being confined to a category.
why no subtitles???
Deaf people don’t listen to jazz
The origin of the scales is Art Tatum
Check out the movie ‘Bird.’ It was produced and directed by a pianist and sincere jazz man. Knowing the movie would not be a ‘smash,’ Clint Eastwood made it as a labor of love, and I thank him for the time and effort he put into the film. No one else would be brave enough to undertake such a project. Eastwood took what was pretty new to do in the 1980s-remastering the rhythm section and keeping the actual Charlie Parker improvisations. ‘Bird’ was portrayed by Forest Whitaker. He looked like he was really playing the saxophone-if you’re not a horn player. To play the lightning speeds of CP, you cannot have your fingers flying all over the place as the actor did to make it look ‘real.’ There are only two videos of Charlie Parker. The one with Dizzy that was on live TV, and the other with Coleman Hawkins, which is dubbed because the studio lost the sound track - most probably, stolen by a selfish admirer. Parker’s fingers seem to hardly move. To play fast, your fingers need to be close to the keys. Another point away from the subject of fingers: Bird said in an interview that he did not pick up the horn for three months after the symbol was tossed to the floor. When he was a kid, he said he just knew parts of ‘Honeysuckle Rose’ and ‘Up the Lazy River.’ He also had no idea of the different keys. Being the young, determined genius that he was, it’s highly unlikely that he did not play for three months, after that. ‘Bird’ couldn’t keep the saxophone too far from his mouth. Although it makes good press to say, ‘three months,’ I’ll bet he didn’t play, maybe, for three days - if that long. There are many myths about the ‘Great One.’ Don’t believe anything you read, once, about the man-unless you read more and have different sources verifying the same story. It’s unfortunate that few know his name. But it’s most fortunate that we do.
Good old Clint erased Kenny Clarke and Lennie Tristano from his sound track - replacing them with studio hacks. It takes away much of the meaning of what Bird expressed - since his line was an improvisation full of inspiration from and response to Clarke and Tristano. In addition, Eastwood's portrayal of Bird as a person was insulting and shallow.
As to your other assertion - no they did not lose the soundtrack. No it wasn't stolen by an admirer. Research the process decided upon by filmmaker Gjon Mili.
Movie is utter crap.
I thought that movie concentrates too much on drugs and too little on what exactly he brought to music which is a common practice with Movies about Jazz players. It also didn’t depict the brightness, magnetism and quick wit that so many recall about Parker.
Bird Lives !
I do not agree with the comments that he was not influenced by the rhythms of the early swing dance bands he played with, reflected in the Latin rhythm of his composition of Little Suede Shoes, listen too to his playing of slow, romantic ballads , with little be bop phrasing and the celebrated concert with strings.
The greatest of the great. The king. The Pharoah. The messiah.
clarkewi actually it’s Charlie Parker
The Messiah is the Lord Jesus Christ. Bird would not have appreciated being called that.
❤️
Charlie was the original shredder. his double time and machine gun phrasing influenced heavy metal
Brilliant!
Nothing about Buster Smith's mentoring?
Or Tommy Douglas.
RIP!
BIRD LIVES EVERY DAY!!!
Bird’s genius included the ability to mess with critics and journalists to incite controversy and coverage. This video, loaded with good stuff and some egg headed theorizing swallowed it all hook line and sinker.
PreCISely!!!
Fuckin' A...FACTS!
Bird, Dizzy, Monk... giants
Bud
Interesting, and while Parker may never have heard the "greats" as you say, and it's possible he wasn't influenced by and had no interest in Jazz...he was born and raised in Kansas City
That was at the point of the video where I just tuned out.
Yard was born in Kansas City, Kansas, and raised in Kansas City, Missouri.
Thoes are not my words but thoes of Parker spoken to Levin and Wilson in 1949. Parker was influenced by the greats you hear them all the time in his early recordings; so why do you think he said that? In the interview it states that Parker was first influenced by Rudy Vallee but this is almost certainly a mis-quote. It is well known that the first saxophonist Parker was influenced by was Rudy Wiedoeft. Parker may have stated his lack of interest in the greats to distance himself from the abuse he was getting in the traditional press. Some of the musicians he quotes didn't like his music (Louis Armstrong for one). I think the reason he said he was not influenced by Lester Young is due to an article on Young wrote by Pat Harris in Down beat on May 6th 1949. In that interview Young accused people who copied his solos as nothing more than 'copycats'. Parker admired Young and knew he would be reading his interview so he wasn't going to state the truth and tell Levin and Wilson he ripped off Young's solos. By the time of this interview Parker's style was well establised as his own.
‘Roo-dih’ :)
This guy's accent reminds me of the first time I heard Bird or Clifford Brown. I didn't get it all.
Very please to be included in the same sentence as Bird and Brown.
@@bebopreview3187 "Very pleased" surely.
@@vova47 I was drawing a parallel between complex jazz and an unfamiliar accent. Some accents are harder to understand than others. White people from the U.S. state of Maine or black rural Louisianans are hard to understand until you're used to hearing them. (I would love to see a conversation between the two.) There's nothing wrong with either accent. Bop usually sounds like noise to somebody used to pop music. No offense meant and I enjoyed your video.
This accent is from Lancashire, and is easy to understand. There are some weird accents in England and Ulster that I have difficulty with. Some of the vowel sounds puzzle me, such as Vadafane.
It's a Hinden Myth.
Everybody's praising the vid to the skies - but cheezas, it's just _reading_ the full interview from Downbeat Magazine!
'In this intriguing documentary, Andy Shaw reads the long article, which is illustrated in the film with many photos, discusses the jazz world’s reactions to Parker’s comments (including from Dizzy Gillespie), evaluates his comments and goes into great technical detail into what made Charlie Parker’s music innovative'. Scott Yanow Downbeat.
Why don't you watch the whole series like most people. I state at the very beginning of this video that it was written In 1949 by Michael Levin and John S. Wilson and that it was from Downbeat magazine. Parts 2,3, and 4 examine the interview in more detail. If I didn't read the article in the first place the other parts would make little sense; and it has been misquoted so many times over the years that I thought it necessary to read it verbatim in order to clear up any misunderstanding. But I must say I think I deserve some credit in making it into a watchable film. If all this is is just reading the interview from Downbeat why don't you do the same; then you'll see how much work I've put into it.
We should be humble when trying to use words to explain music.
Oh bless it’s Cherokee! Go on boy, go on son. Big jump now. Yeah! Good boys.
At 8:30: "...born in Kansas City, Kansas in 1921..." Charlie Parker was born Aug 29, 1920. This amateur mistake is as egregious as engraving a tenor sax on CP's gravestone...
One of many mistakes I show in part 2
Your right it isn’t meant for us.