Thanks, Bob - VERY INFORMATIVE as usual. I don't know where you find the time to keep these useful videos coming. Bottom line, YOUR time creating and sharing these teaching videos ultimately saves OUR time (multiplied by the number of viewers) digging and learning. Much appreciated.
Hi Rob, As I delve deeper into understanding my E-M10ii , the mechanical vs electronic shutter subject had been difficult for me to understand. After viewing your tutorial I now have a much better appreciation of how they work and when best to apply either of them. Finding your TH-cam channel has been a real treat and is my go-to source for information regarding my camera & photography issues. Appreciate your work.
That's why I appreciate your videos so much. You also explain how the camera works which enables me to understand my camera and with that what I have to do to achieve better pictures. I have allways been looking for something like that and now I am very grateful.
Another superb tutorial Rob, so well presented and explained. I'm more engineer than photographer and love to know how things work. There are not many TH-cam channels that explain in simple terms what exactly goes on behind the buttons and timers, so I thank you and I hope you will continue making them. As an E-M1 mk2 user, I look forward to you explaining some of those camera's awesome features. Thanks Rob, from Wales.
Superb exploration of exposure modes with digital sensors 👍. Which probably shows why old-school film is still superior in certain scenarios. That said, your explanation has helped this old pro to clarify his own thinking on which exposure mode to use in which scenario. Thank you, Rick
I found this tutorial extremely interesting with an amazing amount of in-depth information. Rob, you obviously really know your stuff. Thanks for sharing. 👍
It's funny the things you find on the web during a quarantine!!! I never saw this before and it's very cool!!! Once more, you make me feel smarter Rob!!!
Thank you so much. This has been a grey area for me and my choice of shutter has always depended on whether I needed to be quiet. More to think about, particularly for macro or long exposures.
Great videos! The concepts are well explained and you make concepts very clear in simple terminology. I am looking forward to your new videos. You can bring up your presentation a notch by eliminating the word "okay" from your delivery as, it becomes distracting the more often you say it. Thank you for all your time and effort in producing these wonderful, instructional videos.
Thank you! I appreciate constructive feedback. Helps me help others. I used to smack my lips a lot, play background music too loud, and touch my face a lot more. But thanks to viewer feedback like yours, I've minimized this to some extent. This probably would be a 5 minute video if I didn't say um and okay constantly!
Thanks Rob for these tutorials! I have learned so much more about my camare and understanding all the features! By the way, how did you achieve that great moon shot?
Thank you Rob! I really like that you dive deep into the topics and explain the details. I totally love the amount of technical insights you give to us. Keep going on with such interesting tutorials. Greetings from Germany :)
Thank you Rob, the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark2 is my first advanced digital camera. Your tutorials are very helpful for me, to learn the new camera. I have still the old Olympus om 2n vith 3 objectives, (in very god condition) i going to buy the adapter so i can use them to. I really love to see all your videos, i found them very useful. Keep on the very good job, best regards.(Med vänlig hälsning) Ulf E. Sweden
Hi Rob, great video as always but 1 part of it really confuses me. At about 15 mins I think you infer the curtain speed is about 1/320 sec and faster shutter speeds work by effectively reducing the aperture using a small gap between the upwards moving upper and lower curtains - does this mean that for freezing motion there's no benefit to going faster than 1/320 secs? Or have I misunderstood?
Thanks. That is a great question! Not one I can answer right now. Fast action is definitely frozen at 1/8000th and not 1/320th. If the shutter is not moving faster than 1/320th as I implied in this video, then how is this possible without rolling shutter effect? I'm honestly having a little trouble reconciling this in my brain. It's very possible I am dead wrong in this video. I will research this more and try to answer this question asap. I am already losing sleep over this!
@@RobTrek Your video is perfectly fine. 1/320 second rolling shutter is visible even in mechanical shutters, too, on the image between the top and the bottom stripes. However, this is way much better than the 1/15 - 1/30 second rolling shutter skew in electronic shutter. The Sony A9 has 1/160 second shutter rate, so is half as good as mechanical shutter.
Thanks a lot, Rob, that was the clearest explanation of how shutters work I've seen to date. Very helpful! If I may: when a camera (E-M10) reaches its maximum shutter count, will it simply stop working? If so, can it be fixed/replaced, and would the cost weigh up to buying a new camera? Thanks again.
I've never heard of any camera deliberately stop working based on a shutter count. If the shutter begins to wear or malfunction due to age, it's best to replace because other components that can fail won't be too far behind!
Hello Rob, thank you the very detailed explanation of how shutters work. Have you a video on how to change these settings on the em10 mk ii, as well as how to turn on burst mode, which for the life of me I've not managed to find. 🙏
Hi. Watch this video for shutter settings: th-cam.com/video/7InIY0oDCas/w-d-xo.html and this for general shutter speed info (3 parts) th-cam.com/video/sxUKh8ZT90s/w-d-xo.html
Great use of slow-mo to explain the shutter modes. Check out my latest video that shows slow mo-workings of built-in-lens shutter and aperture and even internal lens ND filter for the Pentax Q system lenses. Amazing what happens in a blink of an eye. BTW what lens did you use to shoot that moon? 500mm?
Great explanation and much appreciated. When buying a used camera people are always concerned about shutter count. Obviously this must only be relevant to the mechanical shutter or does the firmware also count the electronic clicks? Also it may sound ridiculous but because I use a lot of exposure bracketing in A-mode I prefer the electronic shutter to "save" the mechanical and keep the count down.
Il mirino elettronico della omd-m10 II è troppo luminoso rispetto al risultato finale. Come posso regolare al meglio seppure ho abbassato di 2? Grazie e complimenti peri video molti interessanti per me.
Thank you for very specific and precise information on the issue of shutter modes. I have one question that I cannot find an answer to however much I search the forums and I believe a photographer of your knowledge may have clue about it. I have the Olympus omd em10 mark iii and the electronic shutter is only available in a specific mode called "the silent" mode and I can't seem to change the mode the camera works in this mode (say A, P or M mode)That is an issue I can live with but my real question is why the "intervalometer" options are all disabled when using electronic shutter. It is even so in mark ii and I cannot find any logical explanation other than the theory of "planned obsolescence". Or is there anything I am missing?
I can't explain why, but they disabled the silent shutter in the em10-iii for all but AP modes. I can only guess on the intervalometer, but maybe to keep the sensor from staying on constantly for an extended period of time to prevent over heating?
Sorry, do't have the em5, but will look into the manual and see if there are any differences. It's possible on the electronic first curtain shutter mode. that the mechanical first curtain does not close, but stays open before the second curtain drops.
hi ... in the EM10 can vibration be avoided, in short or normal shutter? ... will that be the only configuration to move since it does not use electronic shutter? ... thanks for your instructive videos, greetings from Chile
Thanks Rob a great explanation, just 1 question. I sold my EM5 MKIi tp purchase an EM1 MKII but I was asked for the shutter count of the camera, I know this counts up with every press of the shutter but does it only count on mechanical as if I'm shooting in 60fps my end shutter count would be huge.
I'll check for you and do a short video on how to check shutter count. I was checking some other camera a while ago and it did not record electronic shutter. Have never bothered to check Olympus shutter counts.
Hi Rob thanks for this. Just wondered have you had any experience with the 19mm sigma art lens, if so how is it different to other lenses. I have my zuiko 12-40 and a 14-42 pancake zoom, I'm not sure if I need it. Thanks for all your hard work. All the best.
I've never used the lens myself. That said, I've heard good things about it. All the same, I'd probably get the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 instead. Better yet, the Olympus 25mm f/1.8 is fantastic!
Thamks for the info. So, shooting shooting 4k video with the mechanical shutter will avoid the rolling shutter effect? If so, what are the possible frame rates in 4k?
Video is electronic shutter only, so rolling shutter is a constant problem. I believe in the days of film, video was filmed with a mechanical shutter at 24fps.
Thank you very much for another great video. I am used to using the "reciprocal rule", especially for those lenses where there's no image stabilization. Does this rule change in any way for em10 mark II with the image stabilization working?
I always stick to the reciprocal rule, regardless of image stabilization settings. I only break the rule when I can't get the shot any other way or I'm trying to be creative in some way.
Where do I find 'Shutter Modes'? I have just updated the firmware to version 1.3, and I can only find mechanical and electronic shutter settings on the Control Panel, second column from the left, second from the bottom. This deals with single shot and burst modes with various shutter settings. Some of these are called 'silent'. About the menu in general, the nearest menu structure to this I have on the Olympus SP-570UZ bridge camera from 2008. Admittedly, the E-M10 II has not as many mutual lockouts as the earlier bridge camera.
The new Sony A1 you can use flash with the electronic shutter. It's the only camera I know of that can do that. There was a flash setup that does work with cellphones I saw on fstoppers channel. I think these flashes stay on longer but you might get blur. I think its working the same way as the light on your cellphone but these are studio lights.
That is cool. I read up to 1/200th in electronic shutter. The Olympus EM1ii & iii can do up to 1/50th. If they make flashes for cameras like these cell phone versions, I'd assume we could get even faster "sync" times - short of continuous lighting, LOL!
I don't own the em5.ii, but the manual says you can program a function button to toggle between continuous and self timer. You could also program a myset with the self time selected, the program the myset to a function button. Hope that helps. :)
looks like the slo mo guys video..of the shutter...is it..? that is so cool...thanks..They should just put the shutter in the lens...I know I know it will cost more..but all that vibration would be gone.
Rob - an interesting video, but I think you don't have the anti-shock explanation 100% correct. Firstly, there is a difference between the older Olympus cameras with 0s anti-shock (E-P5, E-M1, E-M10) and the later cameras with that feature (E-M5ii, E-M1ii, Pen-F etc). Your explanation only applies to the older cameras. The newer cameras move one only curtain when you set anti-shock=0s and there is no short delay before exposure as with the older cameras. Secondly, for anti-shock settings of 1/8s and longer, the delay happens in a different place in the sequence and EFCS (Electronic First Curtain Shutter) is not used at all (whereas it's essential for 0s anti-shock). Hope this comment helps.
Hi. I updated the title to say e-m10-ii. I used high speed fps to record the shutter action on my e-m10ii, and I see the mechanical first curtain shutter close, then open in anti shock. When anti-shock is set to 1/8 or longer, the mechanical first curtain closes, then opens immediately, then the second curtain rises after the set time. My PL8 has the same action. On my PenF and e-m1ii, in anti-shock mode, there is no mechanical first curtain shutter, regardless of the anti-shock delay setting - as you have pointed out, it's EFCS only. I'm a little confused on the second point about the EFCS is not used at all. How does the exposure start without a first curtain mechanical or otherwise? I'd greatly appreciate a reference so I can learn more. I'll have to do a followup video or take this down and start over. Thanks!
I'm using E-M10 and when I change "release lag time" from short to normal or normal to short and return to live view, I'll hear some kind of motor actuation. In your other video, you said it only changes the polling rate of the shutter button. Why does it need to make that sound?
Apparently, I didn't do my research and gave the wrong information! :( It seems the "short" release lag mode actually uses more power to physically actuate the shutter faster. I couldn't find any "official" references, but did find a quote here: www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/olympus-ep5/olympus-ep5A.HTM . "There's also a new short release-time lag mode, which increases power consumption by around one-fifth, but decreases prefocused shutter lag by around the same margin. Olympus is claiming a time of around 0.049 second, which would gel well with a 20% reduction over the 0.060 second we measured for the E-P3. In our tests the E-P5's shutter lag wasn't quite as fast as claimed, but it was close at 0.052 second." Sorry about that.
Thank you and no worries about the wrong information! I've been searching for the answer for a long time but not one is this close. This explains the sound it makes when the settings are changed. The shutter can have a higher acceleration from stationary when the coils are always energized. This, and with higher current through the coils, frequency can be increased, hence the higher shutter rate. That's what I would guess with these information :)
Hi Rob. Maybe a very stupid question, but if the sensor can be switched on or off, why do you need a shutter curtain? That doesn't make any sense to me and is very confusing.
The sensor is on, but the camera can only read each row of pixels at roughly 30 or 60 times per second. So if you need a shutter speed faster than 1/60th, then the only way to do that is by cutting off the light with a mechanical shutter so the sensor doesn't get overexposed while the camera reads the pixels. That's why video modes (when the shutter stays open) can only shoot up to 30 or 60fps. Higher frame rates like 120fps are sometimes cropped so the camera doesn't have to read as many pixels. Some cameras like the Panasonic GH5 can do full sensor 120 or 180fps. It requires more power which drains the battery and generates heat. A true full on sensor is called a global shutter, which is what you are thinking. Hope that helps.
I have a Fujifilm X-T10. It has choices of mechanical, electronic, autoswitch. Flash works only if the mechanical shutter is chosen. I expected it to work for autoswitch because the camera (firmware) could choose mechanical shutter.
I'm not familiar with Fujifilm, but I would think if you used a Fujifilm brand flash, it should be able to autoswitch. I know when I used my nikon flashes on my olympus camera, the camera can't detect the flash, although it does trigger the flash.
Fujifilm is very good about updating firmware, I guess we have to cross our fingers. I should be a simple matter of detecting a flash then forcing mechanical shutter.
Rob Trek no significant updates for this camera. I expected it to use the mechanical shutter within its limits. I use it when I feel like wandering random stuff and don't care about which lens I use. It's not so important to me, but it might matter to others. It was never going to be my main camera, Fujifilm doesn't have the necessary lenses.
If the camera does NOT have a electronic global shutter capability, is the mechanical shutter working in conjunction with the electronic rolling shutter?
In a way, it does. The shutter closes before the camera reads all the data off the sensor so long as the shutter speed is faster than the sensor read speed. I'm looking into sensor read speeds, but I believe it's 1/30th sec to 1/60th, but don't quote me on that. I'm still doing research myself!
Rob, my sincere thanks for your reply. There are many videos/articles on mechanical vs electronic shutter, but none of them seem to touch upon this specific (in the weeds) point; it is greatly confusing to me. To restate: How in the world does a camera with NO global electronic shutter capability work when using the mechanical shutter??!!
I'm guessing here, as I'm not a sensor engineer. In electronic shutter, the sensor turns the first row of pixels on and then reads the amount of light each pixel collected before turning off and moving on to the next row. It can do this at 1/16000 as mentioned in the video. Multiply that by 4000 rows and you have 0.25 secs to read top to bottom. However, the camera can turn on the the next row while reading the previous row, so you get a much faster top to bottom rate of maybe 1/30 of sec. Still not fast enough to eliminate rolling shutter effect of skewed lines. In mechanical shutter, all of the pixels are turned on at once (like a global shutter), but will stay on until everything is read. So without a way to turn off the sensor fast enough, your exposure would be say 0.25 secs as mentioned above. The problem (as I understand it) is the sensor can't turn off the pixels until everything is read. So we introduce the mechanical shutter to close it's curtains to stop the light from hitting the sensor at the shutter speed chosen to in effect turn off the pixels giving us the proper exposure. A true global shutter can turn the sensor's pixels on and off all at the same time, substituting the mechanical shutter, but requires more circuits and more power per pixel introducing noise and lower dynamic range. Global shutters of course exist in very expensive cameras. Affordable cameras will get here eventually, and maybe just around the corner. Who knows?
They are working on a "global" sensor for the consumer market. There are still some challenges to make it viable. Super high speed cameras like the slow mo guys channel use global shutters, but they weigh and cost a fortune.
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Thanks, Bob - VERY INFORMATIVE as usual. I don't know where you find the time to keep these useful videos coming. Bottom line, YOUR time creating and sharing these teaching videos ultimately saves OUR time (multiplied by the number of viewers) digging and learning. Much appreciated.
Hi Rob, As I delve deeper into understanding my E-M10ii , the mechanical vs electronic shutter subject had been difficult for me to understand. After viewing your tutorial I now have a much better appreciation of how they work and when best to apply either of them. Finding your TH-cam channel has been a real treat and is my go-to source for information regarding my camera & photography issues. Appreciate your work.
Thank you!
That's why I appreciate your videos so much. You also explain how the camera works which enables me to understand my camera and with that what I have to do
to achieve better pictures.
I have allways been looking for something like that and now I am very grateful.
Happy to help!
Thanks Rob, this is the most clear and straight explanation of the shutter operation I've ever seen, but I've come to expect nothing less from you...
You're very kind. Thank you!
"Sorry, I didn't mean to go that far with that but I couldn't help myself." No apology needed. You've made it very understandable. Thank you.
Thanks. Glad to help!
Another superb tutorial Rob, so well presented and explained.
I'm more engineer than photographer and love to know how things work.
There are not many TH-cam channels that explain in simple terms what exactly goes on behind the buttons and timers, so I thank you and I hope you will continue making them.
As an E-M1 mk2 user, I look forward to you explaining some of those camera's awesome features.
Thanks Rob, from Wales.
Thanks. I actually don't use the em1 mk2 for photography much. Mostly for video, like the tutorials on my channel here.
Mr Rob. Another great, informative and fool proof tutorial. Thank you so much!
Superb exploration of exposure modes with digital sensors 👍. Which probably shows why old-school film is still superior in certain scenarios. That said, your explanation has helped this old pro to clarify his own thinking on which exposure mode to use in which scenario.
Thank you,
Rick
Thank you!
Thank you Rob, this is the best explanation I have seen on this topic.
Thanks!
I found this tutorial extremely interesting with an amazing amount of in-depth information. Rob, you obviously really know your stuff. Thanks for sharing. 👍
Thanks. I try.
Thank you Rob for this clear explanation of the different shutter modes, nowhere else have i found this information.
Thanks. I try.
Thanks Rob, another great tutorial! I appreciate the time and attention to detail you spend on these tutorials!
Thanks for watching!
Once again, a great explanation! As someone who is new to "real" cameras, your videos have been extremely helpful.
Thanks for watching!
Wow, now I actually understand what's going on with the shutter! Thanks a lot, Rob!!! 👍
Glad this helped. -Rob
It's funny the things you find on the web during a quarantine!!! I never saw this before and it's very cool!!! Once more, you make me feel smarter Rob!!!
Thanks again, Dave.
I am so glad I found you.
Me too! Thanks.
I greatly appreciate your videos. I like your honest approach.
I appreciate that!
Thanks, this lesson fully explains the "bent goal post" artifacts that I was getting on my sporting photos. Keep up the great work.
Thanks!
Thanks a lot Rob. Your tutorials are very well explained.
Thanks. I try.
Thank you so much. This has been a grey area for me and my choice of shutter has always depended on whether I needed to be quiet. More to think about, particularly for macro or long exposures.
Thanks for watching!
Great videos! The concepts are well explained and you make concepts very clear in simple terminology. I am looking forward to your new videos. You can bring up your presentation a notch by eliminating the word "okay" from your delivery as, it becomes distracting the more often you say it. Thank you for all your time and effort in producing these wonderful, instructional videos.
Thank you! I appreciate constructive feedback. Helps me help others. I used to smack my lips a lot, play background music too loud, and touch my face a lot more. But thanks to viewer feedback like yours, I've minimized this to some extent. This probably would be a 5 minute video if I didn't say um and okay constantly!
Thanks Rob for these tutorials! I have learned so much more about my camare and understanding all the features! By the way, how did you achieve that great moon shot?
The best shot I ever took was stacking around 40 shots in photoshop. Lot of work but worth it.
Another great tutorial Rob. Kudos
Thanks!
Thank you Rob! I really like that you dive deep into the topics and explain the details. I totally love the amount of technical insights you give to us. Keep going on with such interesting tutorials.
Greetings from Germany :)
Thank you!
Thanks for this none of the other videos I watched described what was happening.. very informative! Great stuff
Thanks for watching!
Very interesting tutorial. Nicely explained, thank you.
Thank you!
Thank you Rob, the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark2 is my first advanced digital camera. Your tutorials are very helpful for me, to learn the new camera. I have still the old Olympus om 2n vith 3 objectives, (in very god condition) i going to buy the adapter so i can use them to. I really love to see all your videos, i found them very useful. Keep on the very good job, best regards.(Med vänlig hälsning) Ulf E. Sweden
Thank you!
Thank you Thank you, Rob.
Thanks for watching, Ivan.
Hello Rob...Good shutter vlog, Well explained and Well done close ups...!
Thanks!
Great Video Rob, I always look forward to your very informative videos!
Thank you!
Good on you Rob .another easy to understand tutorial 👍
Thanks!
Hi Rob, great video as always but 1 part of it really confuses me. At about 15 mins I think you infer the curtain speed is about 1/320 sec and faster shutter speeds work by effectively reducing the aperture using a small gap between the upwards moving upper and lower curtains - does this mean that for freezing motion there's no benefit to going faster than 1/320 secs? Or have I misunderstood?
Thanks. That is a great question! Not one I can answer right now. Fast action is definitely frozen at 1/8000th and not 1/320th. If the shutter is not moving faster than 1/320th as I implied in this video, then how is this possible without rolling shutter effect? I'm honestly having a little trouble reconciling this in my brain. It's very possible I am dead wrong in this video. I will research this more and try to answer this question asap. I am already losing sleep over this!
@@RobTrek Your video is perfectly fine. 1/320 second rolling shutter is visible even in mechanical shutters, too, on the image between the top and the bottom stripes. However, this is way much better than the 1/15 - 1/30 second rolling shutter skew in electronic shutter. The Sony A9 has 1/160 second shutter rate, so is half as good as mechanical shutter.
Thanks a lot, Rob, that was the clearest explanation of how shutters work I've seen to date.
Very helpful!
If I may: when a camera (E-M10) reaches its maximum shutter count, will it simply stop working?
If so, can it be fixed/replaced, and would the cost weigh up to buying a new camera?
Thanks again.
I've never heard of any camera deliberately stop working based on a shutter count. If the shutter begins to wear or malfunction due to age, it's best to replace because other components that can fail won't be too far behind!
Rob Trek Thank you for your answer, well appreciated ✌️
good description, one of the best I have seen
Thanks!
Thanks Rob, it was clearly explained.
Thanks for watching!
Nice job explaining
Thanks for watching!
Always great. Thanks Rob.
Thanks for watching!
Very well described. Thank you!
Thanks. I try.
very interesting tutorial. thanks.
Thank you!
Hello Rob, thank you the very detailed explanation of how shutters work. Have you a video on how to change these settings on the em10 mk ii, as well as how to turn on burst mode, which for the life of me I've not managed to find. 🙏
Hi. Watch this video for shutter settings: th-cam.com/video/7InIY0oDCas/w-d-xo.html and this for general shutter speed info (3 parts) th-cam.com/video/sxUKh8ZT90s/w-d-xo.html
@@RobTrek Thanks Rob, for these links. Much appreciated.
love from India
Thanks!
Great use of slow-mo to explain the shutter modes. Check out my latest video that shows slow mo-workings of built-in-lens shutter and aperture and even internal lens ND filter for the Pentax Q system lenses. Amazing what happens in a blink of an eye.
BTW what lens did you use to shoot that moon? 500mm?
This was my hefty Tamron 150-600 for Nikon, adapted to my PenF. You may have seen it in my other video experiment. I'll have to check out your video.
Hi Mr. Rob, also from Italy we are always waiting for your new videos. Congratulations and thanks. Holder of omd m10 II.
Thanks. I got one in the que. Not my best work, but wanted to get something out.
Very interesting , thank you .
Thanks for watching!
Thanks Rob
Thanks for watching!
Good information. Thanks a lot
Glad it was helpful!
Great explanation and much appreciated. When buying a used camera people are always concerned about shutter count. Obviously this must only be relevant to the mechanical shutter or does the firmware also count the electronic clicks? Also it may sound ridiculous but because I use a lot of exposure bracketing in A-mode I prefer the electronic shutter to "save" the mechanical and keep the count down.
Electronic shutter should extend the life of the mechanical. Shutter counts vary by camera. My em10 counts electronic shutters, my em1 does not!
@@RobTrek That's interesting. I have the EM1 mk1 with firmware 4 update. Thanks for the prompt reply.
Il mirino elettronico della omd-m10 II è troppo luminoso rispetto al risultato finale. Come posso regolare al meglio seppure ho abbassato di 2?
Grazie e complimenti peri video molti interessanti per me.
Thank you for very specific and precise information on the issue of shutter modes. I have one question that I cannot find an answer to however much I search the forums and I believe a photographer of your knowledge may have clue about it. I have the Olympus omd em10 mark iii and the electronic shutter is only available in a specific mode called "the silent" mode and I can't seem to change the mode the camera works in this mode (say A, P or M mode)That is an issue I can live with but my real question is why the "intervalometer" options are all disabled when using electronic shutter. It is even so in mark ii and I cannot find any logical explanation other than the theory of "planned obsolescence". Or is there anything I am missing?
I can't explain why, but they disabled the silent shutter in the em10-iii for all but AP modes. I can only guess on the intervalometer, but maybe to keep the sensor from staying on constantly for an extended period of time to prevent over heating?
Excellent...
Thank you! Cheers!
thanks Rob , could you add if posable where the EM5 mark when referencing the OMD range . I appreciate the time and effort you put into your videos .
Sorry, do't have the em5, but will look into the manual and see if there are any differences. It's possible on the electronic first curtain shutter mode. that the mechanical first curtain does not close, but stays open before the second curtain drops.
hi ... in the EM10 can vibration be avoided, in short or normal shutter? ... will that be the only configuration to move since it does not use electronic shutter? ... thanks for your instructive videos, greetings from Chile
Thanks Rob a great explanation, just 1 question. I sold my EM5 MKIi tp purchase an EM1 MKII but I was asked for the shutter count of the camera, I know this counts up with every press of the shutter but does it only count on mechanical as if I'm shooting in 60fps my end shutter count would be huge.
I'll check for you and do a short video on how to check shutter count. I was checking some other camera a while ago and it did not record electronic shutter. Have never bothered to check Olympus shutter counts.
Thank you Rob, your a star with your help I'm slowly learning the technical side of photography.
Excellent!
Many thanks!
Hi Rob thanks for this. Just wondered have you had any experience with the 19mm sigma art lens, if so how is it different to other lenses. I have my zuiko 12-40 and a 14-42 pancake zoom, I'm not sure if I need it. Thanks for all your hard work. All the best.
I've never used the lens myself. That said, I've heard good things about it. All the same, I'd probably get the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 instead. Better yet, the Olympus 25mm f/1.8 is fantastic!
@@RobTrek thanks Rob, I'll look into that. Very much appreciated. All the best from England.
Thamks for the info. So, shooting shooting 4k video with the mechanical shutter will avoid the rolling shutter effect? If so, what are the possible frame rates in 4k?
Video is electronic shutter only, so rolling shutter is a constant problem. I believe in the days of film, video was filmed with a mechanical shutter at 24fps.
Great explanation. Is the electronic shutter is the physical part or just sensor maths work?
Thanks. Electronic shutter has no mechanical or physical movement.
@@RobTrek thanks
Thank you very much for another great video. I am used to using the "reciprocal rule", especially for those lenses where there's no image stabilization. Does this rule change in any way for em10 mark II with the image stabilization working?
I always stick to the reciprocal rule, regardless of image stabilization settings. I only break the rule when I can't get the shot any other way or I'm trying to be creative in some way.
Where do I find 'Shutter Modes'? I have just updated the firmware to version 1.3, and I can only find mechanical and electronic shutter settings on the Control Panel, second column from the left, second from the bottom. This deals with single shot and burst modes with various shutter settings. Some of these are called 'silent'. About the menu in general, the nearest menu structure to this I have on the Olympus SP-570UZ bridge camera from 2008. Admittedly, the E-M10 II has not as many mutual lockouts as the earlier bridge camera.
Hi. Take a look at my video on shutter modes here: th-cam.com/video/7InIY0oDCas/w-d-xo.html
The new Sony A1 you can use flash with the electronic shutter. It's the only camera I know of that can do that. There was a flash setup that does work with cellphones I saw on fstoppers channel. I think these flashes stay on longer but you might get blur. I think its working the same way as the light on your cellphone but these are studio lights.
That is cool. I read up to 1/200th in electronic shutter. The Olympus EM1ii & iii can do up to 1/50th. If they make flashes for cameras like these cell phone versions, I'd assume we could get even faster "sync" times - short of continuous lighting, LOL!
Hi rob, shutter creates vibration on the sensor(ibis) or the whole body? If it's on the whole body can a steady tripod help dampen it?
Shutter can vibrate the entire camera including the sensor. A tripod will always help.
@@RobTrek thank you for the reply, can you do an episode for lens auto focus calibration,( front and back focus correction)
amazing
Thank you!
Hi Rob, I am really struggling to get sharp images when PenF is on timer. ie for taking photos of me working? Can you help please?
Yes. Watch this video and see if it solves your problem. If not, let me know. th-cam.com/video/YtbJ-T4_XSE/w-d-xo.html
@@RobTrek Yay!!! Thank you so much ... just taken my very first sharp selfie!
Rob, in a different vein how can I program EM5 ll to get self timer guickly?
Thank you
Bob
I don't own the em5.ii, but the manual says you can program a function button to toggle between continuous and self timer. You could also program a myset with the self time selected, the program the myset to a function button. Hope that helps. :)
Rob Trek Thanks Rob deeply appreciated
looks like the slo mo guys video..of the shutter...is it..? that is so cool...thanks..They should just put the shutter in the lens...I know I know it will cost more..but all that vibration would be gone.
Now that is just crazy talk! LOL. Would be kinda cool is Olympus made a "one off" camera like that. Maybe a twin lens digital? We can only dream.
Rob - an interesting video, but I think you don't have the anti-shock explanation 100% correct. Firstly, there is a difference between the older Olympus cameras with 0s anti-shock (E-P5, E-M1, E-M10) and the later cameras with that feature (E-M5ii, E-M1ii, Pen-F etc). Your explanation only applies to the older cameras. The newer cameras move one only curtain when you set anti-shock=0s and there is no short delay before exposure as with the older cameras. Secondly, for anti-shock settings of 1/8s and longer, the delay happens in a different place in the sequence and EFCS (Electronic First Curtain Shutter) is not used at all (whereas it's essential for 0s anti-shock). Hope this comment helps.
Hi. I updated the title to say e-m10-ii. I used high speed fps to record the shutter action on my e-m10ii, and I see the mechanical first curtain shutter close, then open in anti shock. When anti-shock is set to 1/8 or longer, the mechanical first curtain closes, then opens immediately, then the second curtain rises after the set time. My PL8 has the same action. On my PenF and e-m1ii, in anti-shock mode, there is no mechanical first curtain shutter, regardless of the anti-shock delay setting - as you have pointed out, it's EFCS only. I'm a little confused on the second point about the EFCS is not used at all. How does the exposure start without a first curtain mechanical or otherwise? I'd greatly appreciate a reference so I can learn more. I'll have to do a followup video or take this down and start over. Thanks!
I'm using E-M10 and when I change "release lag time" from short to normal or normal to short and return to live view, I'll hear some kind of motor actuation. In your other video, you said it only changes the polling rate of the shutter button. Why does it need to make that sound?
Apparently, I didn't do my research and gave the wrong information! :( It seems the "short" release lag mode actually uses more power to physically actuate the shutter faster. I couldn't find any "official" references, but did find a quote here: www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/olympus-ep5/olympus-ep5A.HTM . "There's also a new short release-time lag mode, which increases power consumption by around one-fifth, but decreases prefocused shutter lag by around the same margin. Olympus is claiming a time of around 0.049 second, which would gel well with a 20% reduction over the 0.060 second we measured for the E-P3. In our tests the E-P5's shutter lag wasn't quite as fast as claimed, but it was close at 0.052 second." Sorry about that.
Thank you and no worries about the wrong information! I've been searching for the answer for a long time but not one is this close. This explains the sound it makes when the settings are changed. The shutter can have a higher acceleration from stationary when the coils are always energized. This, and with higher current through the coils, frequency can be increased, hence the higher shutter rate. That's what I would guess with these information :)
Hi Rob. Maybe a very stupid question, but if the sensor can be switched on or off, why do you need a shutter curtain? That doesn't make any sense to me and is very confusing.
The sensor is on, but the camera can only read each row of pixels at roughly 30 or 60 times per second. So if you need a shutter speed faster than 1/60th, then the only way to do that is by cutting off the light with a mechanical shutter so the sensor doesn't get overexposed while the camera reads the pixels. That's why video modes (when the shutter stays open) can only shoot up to 30 or 60fps. Higher frame rates like 120fps are sometimes cropped so the camera doesn't have to read as many pixels. Some cameras like the Panasonic GH5 can do full sensor 120 or 180fps. It requires more power which drains the battery and generates heat. A true full on sensor is called a global shutter, which is what you are thinking. Hope that helps.
I have a Fujifilm X-T10. It has choices of mechanical, electronic, autoswitch. Flash works only if the mechanical shutter is chosen. I expected it to work for autoswitch because the camera (firmware) could choose mechanical shutter.
I'm not familiar with Fujifilm, but I would think if you used a Fujifilm brand flash, it should be able to autoswitch. I know when I used my nikon flashes on my olympus camera, the camera can't detect the flash, although it does trigger the flash.
Fujifilm's manual says not. Besides, when I bought it, there were no Fujifilm flashes. There was a NISSIN, rumoured now to be rebranded for Fujifilm.
Fujifilm is very good about updating firmware, I guess we have to cross our fingers. I should be a simple matter of detecting a flash then forcing mechanical shutter.
Rob Trek no significant updates for this camera. I expected it to use the mechanical shutter within its limits.
I use it when I feel like wandering random stuff and don't care about which lens I use.
It's not so important to me, but it might matter to others. It was never going to be my main camera, Fujifilm doesn't have the necessary lenses.
Great
Sir, are you in anyway related to Dave Dugdale?
Not that I know of.
If the camera does NOT have a electronic global shutter capability, is the mechanical shutter working in conjunction with the electronic rolling shutter?
In a way, it does. The shutter closes before the camera reads all the data off the sensor so long as the shutter speed is faster than the sensor read speed. I'm looking into sensor read speeds, but I believe it's 1/30th sec to 1/60th, but don't quote me on that. I'm still doing research myself!
Rob, my sincere thanks for your reply. There are many videos/articles on mechanical vs electronic shutter, but none of them seem to touch upon this specific (in the weeds) point; it is greatly confusing to me. To restate: How in the world does a camera with NO global electronic shutter capability work when using the mechanical shutter??!!
I'm guessing here, as I'm not a sensor engineer. In electronic shutter, the sensor turns the first row of pixels on and then reads the amount of light each pixel collected before turning off and moving on to the next row. It can do this at 1/16000 as mentioned in the video. Multiply that by 4000 rows and you have 0.25 secs to read top to bottom. However, the camera can turn on the the next row while reading the previous row, so you get a much faster top to bottom rate of maybe 1/30 of sec. Still not fast enough to eliminate rolling shutter effect of skewed lines.
In mechanical shutter, all of the pixels are turned on at once (like a global shutter), but will stay on until everything is read. So without a way to turn off the sensor fast enough, your exposure would be say 0.25 secs as mentioned above. The problem (as I understand it) is the sensor can't turn off the pixels until everything is read. So we introduce the mechanical shutter to close it's curtains to stop the light from hitting the sensor at the shutter speed chosen to in effect turn off the pixels giving us the proper exposure.
A true global shutter can turn the sensor's pixels on and off all at the same time, substituting the mechanical shutter, but requires more circuits and more power per pixel introducing noise and lower dynamic range. Global shutters of course exist in very expensive cameras. Affordable cameras will get here eventually, and maybe just around the corner. Who knows?
a very detailed explanation, easy to understand,although i often the word "OK" :D. Thanks for your sharing, One subscribe for you from me :)
Thank you!
so the sensor is working in a different way when ms is used and es
Honestly I'm not exactly sure. I believe the sensor turns all the pixels on for ms but for es turns the pixels on progressively.
Interesting video but thanks to YT for the playback speed x1.5 otherwise you can be hypnotized LoL
Hahaha! Sorry, my brain doesn't work any faster.
Is it not possible just read the full sensor at once? I mean read every pixel at the same time? Problem solved. Camera manufacturers cant do that yet?
They are working on a "global" sensor for the consumer market. There are still some challenges to make it viable. Super high speed cameras like the slow mo guys channel use global shutters, but they weigh and cost a fortune.
Nasty lateral distortion on moving objects with the electronic shutter, like crap. But with still objects it works.
Absolutely!
With my Lumix LX-100 I get 1/16000 S and 40 fps on continuous shutter, but it's is like shit with moving objects.
Yeah, it's not really a sports/action camera. Great for street though.
@@RobTrek Great for anithing, It's an outstanding camera. I love it.
Change your mic position, it's capture your swallow voice badly.
Thanks. Using a noise gate now.
@@RobTrek Change position and direction of microphone will solve at the source. Noise gate will effect the whole make it unnatural.