EEVblog 1394 - Onkyo Receiver Repair - Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2021
- An interesting dive down the repair rabbit hole on an Onkyo TX-SR607 surround sound receiver amplifier with a failed vacuum fluorescent display.
Success! • EEVblog 1395 - Onkyo R...
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Ok, we’re looking forward for part 2!
Yes we do!
I am waiting as well. It is really nice to watch someone else go through the process of trouble shooting repair problems in the real world with real products as we find them. It illustrates clearly the difficulty of the process. as well as the possibility of solutions. keep up the work!
The one where he asks for the solution in a electronics forum?
Dave, it's not about whether you fix it or not, it's more about what you check and in what order that's interesting for people that want to learn to repair electronics. Big thumbs up from me.
was gonna say the same thing, we appreciate the trip, not just the destination! I left a thumbs up too, exactly to make sure it gets the message in the numbers!
Exactly!
Honestly, we'd lose half the fun if we knew ahead of time that he always succeeded in repairing. Having the uncertainty is way more interesting: it's way more like real life!
"Australian version of the schematic", rofl! :D
Yes, do more audio and CRT based repairs!
Dave loves high voltages
@@zyspan It's true, I LOVE 12V systems!
@@EEVblog i am recently attracted into analogue audio circuits with two 9v cells forming a bi-polar supply
I can't help but notess you have mised one of the first things you should check with VFD's, that is checking if the tube has lost its vaclume. Usualy the little nib gets knocked off when the unit is bumped to hard or droped. As long as the getter is still shiny then the vacume is still in there.
This would be the point at which I start inventing new hyphenated words unsuitable for a young audience and composing little jingles with them to quietly sing under my breath and amuse myself with as I tackle phase two of my teardown journey to destinations unknown.
For what it's worth, Dave, I like your repair videos and greatly appreciate the time you put into them!
Ep. 1394 and no FireWire? :D
Lmao, opportunity missed.
its even ... part a.
.. i'll see myself out.
Tough day at work today, feel dumb as dirt. Seeing a brain like Dave's struggle with "dumbarse" mistakes really helps so thanks for your honesty in your videos as always.
Au contraire - I like it that even someone at your level gets stuck and on the way you reveal all sorts of interesting fault finding methods. I was thinking 'Look underneath!' as often there's a panel on the bottom for circuit access ;o)
None with Onkyo..
These are by far my favorite series. You going around and analyzing build quality of random electronics.
That was quite entertaining.. Was looking for my Onkyo issue which is not related at all to display issues but decided to watch the whole thing.. I used to do electronics and thinker quite a bit so it was cool to have my memories refreshed somewhat.. A lot of those concept were startign to come baack to me which is surprising after 20+ years... Thansk for this.
Also if the set (it IS an AV receiver) has video output, hook that to a monitor and see if it displays any info when you operate the controls.
In a darkened room you can see the VFD filament glow, just like a 1.4 volt valve tube.
YES. I have a similar Onkyo A/V and it displays all the menu / setup options on the TV screen.
Not all repairs are 5 mins.....great to see a video that tests you and is entertaining.
Looking forward to the next installment....
Thanks for the videos Dave, always look forward to watching them. More audio stuff would be awesome!
Part 2 bring it on! Love it, it makes me feel better, I'm not the only one getting gray hair and using a lot of hours fault searching on audio equipment.❤️
I picked up one of these when circuit city was going out of business back around 2003. Been an awesome receiver.
Dave, Q9001 is a simple +ve voltage emitter follower regulator...
AC from the transformer is applied to the circuit, one end to R9010 and the other to the -ve end of C9001. This is half wave rectified by D9001 and smoothed by C9001 before being applied to the collector of Q9001 via R9001. The reference voltage created by R9002/3 and D9005 is applied to the base and the output is at the Emitter.
To check out the regulator without having to power up the unit, ensure that you have the transformer disconnected and use an external power supply supply, -ve to C9001 and +ve to R9010. Across C9006 you should see your -VP supply voltage.
The thing that makes this look overly complicated is that, what would normally be the positive output is referenced to the +5 rail and the side that would normally be ground is actually the -VP output. I'd lay my money on one of the resistors being OC/ R9010 or R9001. Of course check that there is not a short on -VP. Steve
Component references as per downloaded manual from ONKYO TX-SR607 SM Service Manual download, (elektrotanya.com)
Edit-Just seen part 2 of this. Seems I was spot on :) But make sure that if the resistor is a safety component it is replaced with a suitable part.....
Hahaha. Turns out this was good advice!
I had this exact amp... lost my job, and had to sell it... got a lower model now and it's going strong with no issues...
Although I know the VFD not working is a known issue with some of these....
If you plug the HDMI-Out into a TV though, you can use the interface on the display to manage the settings ;)
you really should do more of these kind of video wow!!! im french canadian from montreal and my english is poor but the way you proceed and explain is brilliant and clear! no useless bla bla and you know what you are talking about! awesome video!! a HUUUUGE thumbs up!!
I enjoy this kind of video... especially when you explain the traps and rabbit holes you go down and why.... that really helps
these Repair videos help a lot to understand electronic design. keep them up...
waiting for next part.
A few years ago i was walking out of a friends apartment and on the neighbors trash can was a Harman Kardon AVR354 7.1 receiver. I swooped it up and took it home and all that was wrong with it was a busted internal fuse and some dodgy solder joints. It's been running for 3 years flawlessly.
Great video explaining your troubleshooting thought process. Glad you found the issue in part 2. Cheers!
Absolutely brilliant. I saved this (and part 2) up for Sunday night, and I'm glad that I did.
The repair videos are some of my favorites. More interesting than most of the "mailbag" segments, for sure. Please keep doing these - hopefully including "part 2" of this one!
Note: not that I don't enjoy "mailbag", but the repair ones are definitely more enlightening to me.
I have the same model that got the same issue with the display after having it for two years. The display just didn't turn on one day, but all the other features worked fine.
I sent it in for a repair at an authorized Onkyo service provider and they diagnosed the issue to be with one or two resistors. The service report had this listed as parts:
2,2/0,5
220/63
After I got it back it have been working fine for 10 years now
"Dry as a dead dingo's donger"! Dave can certainly turn a colorful phrase.
Along with (something like) chasing a red herring down a rabbit hole!
I enjoyed the hunt. Didn't understand most of it but did learn a few things. I call it a success!
I've had a couple receivers come in with dead displays, only to find that someone had bumped the "dimmer" button and turned the display off LOL. Though usually it's not that easy.
When I discovered that my Denon-receiver had a setting to disable the display, my first thought was that this feature must be responsible for some small part of the product return-rate 😀
The ONKYO TX-SR series is notorious for failed electrolytic caps on the video switch board. Recommend replacing all of those through hole and surface mount electrolytics with high quality 105C rated components. Check your video processing and passthrough for noise/glitches.
I just got one of these and this is going to be a big help when I decide to repair it, thank you
Boy, you sure make troubleshooting VFD displays look hard. And you even have a reasonably close schematic. And those gray ribbon cables are just plugged in. Push the flat spot on top of the white connector down to release the clamps then pull out the wire.
He's an Engineer, what do you expect, they can design them but fixing things is whole other ball game.
Check the DSP chip on the HDMI board, IIRC that drives the zone portion of the display and the digital inputs as well. Usually a reflow or a 50W halogen lamp pointing at the HDMI board to heat it up works temporarily. There was a huge flood of these on Ebay as not working, bad TI DSP chip and Onkyo ran out of HDMI boards for warranty repair.
I had that issue on mine (or at least a similar issue on the HDMI board). I recall there were a couple of small components to bridge out or bridge over with a resistor, which saved it for a while.
TIL Aussies still use themselves to joke about things being upside down. I think electronics youtubers are some of the funniest and outgoing people on here 💕
I love audio repair videos! Am looking forward to part 2!
Congratulations for the 800k. Watching from Germany. Here the Summer Starts. Best regards.
Part 1 works for me. A 1/2 hour video is plenty for one sitting.
I was given a 2016ish Onkyo receiver that was broken, it would work for a few minutes then the picture would disappear followed closely by the power dropping. On a lark, I checked their website for warranty work... And it was still covered! Totally free, box and shipping and everything.
Love your repair videos, please keep making them :-)
Awesome video! Great adventure loaded with valuable techniques. Thanks!
I once repaired a dead VFD on a DVD player (good one worth saving, some Pioneer thing that plays Super Audio CDs). Nothing wrong was with the tube or the driver, it was just a current limiting resistor for the tube filament that opened.
I have one of these and had the same problem, I had a repair shop say that the issue was due to a joint somewhere on the display getting too hot and cracking, they also said that its a fairly common fault but wasn't common enough for a product recall.
🤣 The Australian version of the schematic. Classic trap for new players.
perfect! waiting for part 2 please
Love the repair videos! I did this for a living until it became unprofitable. Thou shall check ALL rail voltages. Come on man, you have a shop full of supplies to feed that circuit externally and then divide and conquer. Just be sure to power limit that external supply and I'm sure with your skills you'll find it quickly. Can't wait for part two!
I have this Onkyo sitting here next to me. Good radio. This Is awesome. Thanks Dave
Mine works, sorry you couldn't get the screen lit. Let me know if you want me to measure anything on mine, or make a video for you.
Thanks. Looking forward to part 2
love your repair videos, need more
Haha , you can never repair it as good as Mr Carlson lab
Mr Carlson also has a soothing voice. Not that Dave's voice is not soothing..... LOL
@@sbalogh53 Mr, Carlson would have had every cap changed by now. LMAO
Cant wait for part two
You go on a journey, even if you don't make it all the way, it is still interesting.
Good videos!
Great effort on Right to Repair!
Kind regards
Those ribbon interconnects. You press down on the top and it lets go of the pins.
And yes. I repaired one of these a while back. Huge pain in the ass to work on. Back in the day, they used to have a removable panel on the bottom of the chassis that let you get at stuff on the bottom without a huge issue.
Took an older one apart that had a failed Dolby decoder board, and thus was not fixable. Standard definition analogue video as well. They also use PCB sections with wire jumpers soldered between them as wiring loom clamps, where you have to fold the pieces of board over to hold the wiring looms.
Valiant effort mate. Now onto #1395 :)
It would have been nice to see the VFD lit up by the end of the video, but still interesting to see the troubleshooting process. This is an issue that probably wouldn't be fixed by just shotgunning the caps.
I had one of these, it was a simple resistor that helped drive the display. It was a simple fix.
I had that exact receiver!!! Loved that thing (sold it along with a house).
Really nice video, I love the troubleshooting :)
Nightmare repair. I feel your pain! Looking forward to part 2 Dave. Check resistors in the end, they got problems with them.
Suddenly repairing tube audio looks easy!
These kind of amps are perfect for like salvaging parts.
Mains transformer will work perfectly as a good PSU for a lab power supply, heatsinks, banana connectors are very usable etc.
Depending a bit where you live, but I have see them for less than like 20-30 bucks.
New heatsink and transformer is more expensive.
Looks like the best way to fix something like this is to post a video about your efforts and let the viewers leave comments about which resistor to check or suggesting that the damn thing might simply be in "display off" mode or . . . Fascinating as always to follow Dave's thought process. Couldn't this thing have been designed with fewer boards that could be more easily accessed? Crazy complexity and feature creep. Is that what audiophiles expect these days?
Repair videos are the best! 👍😎👍
I have one of the higher-end models from this range. It's got hdmi and an internal upscaler. I love it. Got it as a refurb unit well over 10 years ago. Use it daily. Only issue is that recently the automated eq setup program will start randomly as if i pressed the button on the front of the unit.
Spray some electronic contact cleaner in the button and press it 50 times.
Follow-up: In my setup it was just too much work for me to dig it out, and due to the fact that once the thing warmed up it was not a problem again, I did not try to address the problem. One day recently, though, it got real ridiculous to the point I couldn't get it out of eq setup mode. I gave the unit a nice quick "tecnical tap" right under the buttons that select the eq setup program. It's worked fine now for about 3 weeks. LOL
Love the repair vids and the thought process. Signal Path repair vids are great too - but he always seems to get lucky with just a loose cable... Oh well.
Why not activate the ‘Zone 2’, ‘Pure Audio’ (buttons on the front panel) and IR (volume) as a simple test to check if the display chip is working and eliminating it before going further in to troubleshooting.
Interesting vid regardless of the outcome, I recently picked up a similar unit from pioneer, almost free since it was defective, not quite as many bells and whistles but roughly same era and basic features. Haven't had more than a cursory look at it yet but seeing your process is similar to what I'd do gave me some confidence that I might actually be able to fix it.
I have a model of similar vintage (maybe a little newer). Mine had a problem with the HDMI distribution board when hot (can't remember the exact symptoms, repaired under warranty back in the day). I think that was caused by cracked or bad solder joints under one of the BGA chips. So if you have those kind of symptoms, reflowing that might help.
Can't wait for part 2. You can see why even with such nice build quality, amps like these get thrown out deemed as not worth repair. Unfortunately a working one is never worth the cost of a tech's time to diagnose and fix. Sad.
5:44 - Dry as a dead dingo's donger. :-)
I worked on dozens of these at an Onkyo warranty facility. What a nightmare. These types of problems are almost always power supply problems. There was one model, and I can't remember which one, that had a power supply update kit to fix the toasted power supplies on the main PCB. I don't know why, but with almost every manufacturer, the low voltage power supply was an afterthought, and a bad one at that. Even Arcam, which charges an arm and a leg for their stuff.
My 1988 onkyo tx 810 is still working fine since i got it from a uk charity shop for £20 a good few years ago it does many hours a day as it is used with the pc and laptop for everything from gaming to youtube and netflix .
Takes me back to being a bench tech, Our company sold a ton of Onkyo and Pioneer receivers for home theaters, then became an in home tech repairing Mitsubishi, Pioneer and Sony. The good old ($$$) days of big screens.
I've got a late 90s top of the line Yamaha with no display. It's a known problem with cold/dry solder joints because LEAD. It's on my todo list to fix it.
I hope you dont give up on this one because you found the issue...it would be interesting to see you get to the failing part and fix it.
I love repair videos.
Realy nice amp, I would just use it without the VFD. Looking forward to part 2.
Great series ! - more repair videos. Its always interesting to see how other engineers go about things.. I'm watching this as I type and shouting capacitors at the TV !! - I have the same AMP. they suffer with CAP's. the HDMI board also suffers with dried out caps the symtom there is your can't get the on screen display to come up on the TV.
Poke about with an ESR meter...
I don't use it anymore because it is analog, but I had a Technics amp that kept changing the audio source for no reason. It was one of the 'new Class A' ones (class H?), that had a energy efficient integrated MOSFET, but suffered crosstalk etc.
good stuff as usual buddy :)
your "traps for young players" are extremely helpful
Awesome video
Thanks for this interesting repair video. ;)
Love the Onkyo 7.2 home theater amp I picked up from a local Flea Market (swap meet) Nipped it for $40 due to it having a damaged banana jack for one of the front outputs. Did a nice work around using just a gater clip and that thing works 100%!
Back in "The Day" I stopped into an electronics store called "Bernie's Electronics" (they did audio and appliances, etc..) Picked up a basic Onkyo 5.1 that started my enjoyment of this brand. It was a 'referb' and I was concerned about the quality. The salesman let me know that about 80% of the time the returns are nothing more than someone purchasing the unit and then becoming totally clueless on how to setup the receiver.
The only receiver that sounds better would be the one in my office at work. 1973 STA-180 by Realistic. (think it was a special done by Hitachi) However I do gaming and love the 7.2 surround sound for games.
Onkyo are known for HDMI board problems. There is an IC responsible for issues like that. Mostly reflow does the trick.
I've seen transistors that tested OK in every tester, but they were locking, so when you crossed some threshold of base current it just stayed always on, even if the base current went down.
Great video.
I have this Onkyo amp . Runs as hot as hell . P.C cooling fan on top helps . Surprised mine keeps going .
I have 3 Onkyo amps, please please post a part 2! Very interested :) almost identical to mine, just I have a more basic one with 3 HDMI's on the back
Every repair is a adventure and sometimes a roller coaster hehe ^^
That ON/STANDBY button looks a bit wonky! I have a 1996 vintage Onkyo, where it fell out completely and got lost! Fortunately, I can reach in and press the tiny button!
The button was part of a plastic moulding (think Revell model car kits :) ). Interesting, considering the rest of the receiver didn't look like typical 'built-to-cost' (?)
Ah, and there's that 'plastic moulding' now! (08:00)
Things I've found repairing those Onkyo's. The HDMI chip damaged causes the microcontroller to turn OFF the unit. The driver board, the one with the yellow pots, it works really hot. So the epoxy they used to stick the SMD parts to the board does carbonize creating havoc on the amplifier and causing it to reset due to voltage present on the speaker output. The board on top of the unit gets dust and moisture from splatters thru the holes on the top of the case, corroding traces and vias. Shorted SMD capacitors. Circuit controlling the VFD display high voltage gets affected if it gets stuck on an ON-OFF cycle loop.
2:01 exactly what went through my mind when I woke this morning and checked my member!
WOW! I haven't heard that song since around 1988! 9:50
Good to know even Dave can get sucked into the rabbit hole. Been there myself many times.
In vdf display, 80% of the faults are the line (-27v) or the filament voltage or the reset voltage - power voltage and many others the connector that connect the vdf- control botton with rest of the unit but in this model it is flexible flat cable.
I tried to repair one of these receivers a few years ago. I don't think it was the same model, but it looked very similar. In my case the power on button didn't work properly. I was able to turn it on sometimes by shorting two pins on the board by the relay, but I was never able to get it to work properly that way. In my version the power button went through (I think) four different boards and into a QFP chip on the main board. That was probably the main control IC, and maybe something was wrong with it. I couldn't find anything wrong with the voltages, and I was sometimes able to get it to work properly after power cycling it enough times, so it wasn't a permanently failed power supply component. I never did figure it out. Of course I didn't have the schematic, which made it even more difficult.
Onkyo USA, I hope you're reading this!
Back in the 70's I bought an Onkyo A5 integrated amp. It was beautifully designed, constructed, worked flawlessly and sounded great. But, it also felt great! Especially the very large volume control knob. I had subtle de tents at every increasing level step. It was smooth, it had weight, it was slightly recessed with a beveled ring. I've never encountered anything near as good as this control knob with any other product. The other selectors, buttons and pots all felt great as well.
So when I needed an integrated receiver a couple of years ago, I bought a new Onkyo receiver. Much to my disappointment, its just a "run of the mill" stereo component with a few annoying flaws. What happened to you guys?
I feel your pain my cousin had a similar unit and I had to remove the bottom board
Surprising, an onkyo xx7 Amp where the DSP board hasn't failed yet...
If you get the VFD to work, I would highly recommend replacing the caps on the DSP/HDMI board. 90% of these recievers fail because of those, so its just a matter of time.
The Board gets toasty hot and they only used 85C caps.
xx5 was nice
xx6 and xx7 had HDMI board capacitors issues
xx8 have issues with the texas instruments Signal processor (A,B and C revisions of the chip), the output drivers wear out until the digital signal is not readable anymore.
xx8 to ??? have issues with the same DSP, board flexes due to heat and over time the BGA balls crack.
You can reflow the TI DSP, it will permanently fix rev D boards, and temporarily (similar to Nvidia 8xxx GPUs) repair A/B/C TI DSP chips
Dave, don't make the mistake thinking unsuccessful repair videos aren´t useful. We learn a lot from these, swallow your pride :)
I don't think Dave is done, this becomes a quest for someone like him. Defeat is not an option! LOL