Why Cars Like This Give Ferrari a Bad Name - But What Can We Do About It?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
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In today's video we are looking at a gorgeous Giallo Modena Ferrari 360. This car was acquired from a specialist dealership who trades cars like this all the time. However, it seemed like there was something about this car that they didn't want us to find out. Unfortunately for them, the car had other ideas...
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I have a 360 which I have restored myself. Some points: firstly, the things you mention are pretty standard fare for the 360. The ball joints and “flanblocs” do need replacing regularly. Secondly, if you use the car AT ALL in the winter then you quadruple your maintenance. The most likely scenario is that this car has been winter used. Non mechanics do persist in thinking that washing their car or having a “service” (which as you are finding out basically means “oil change”) after bombing around in the salt mitigates their actions. Sadly it doesn’t.
Thirdly, James, these are not complex cars. They are extremely simple, and come apart with a £40 socket set. The problem is that there is a whole industry set up to rinse wealthy/enthusiast owners of crazy labour rates when actually once they are on the ramp with the tray off they are as easy to fettle as anything else.
Finally, the correct way to store a car is utterly crucial. Once you have installed dehumidification into your garage and can see how bare metal doesn’t corrode the penny begins to drop that the stark difference in condition between two 30 year old cars simply comes down to: no winter use and correct storage. There is a gulf of difference between a properly laid up car and one that is neglected. I do hope that your friend James enjoys the car; they are very special machines.
What can be done to protect a car from the salt? Is winter driving simply off the table for some cars? I have a Bentley that I would like to drive daily but in the Northeast US the salt runs deep.
@@adamf.4823 the only way to really protect a car from salt is not to use it. I run a cheap winter beater and tuck the toys away until Spring. If I had to rinse my cars after every drive, I'd go mental. The roads are permanently mucky for long periods at a time here, so the car would only remain "clean" overnight and go right back to being salted from top to bottom the following morning. The sacrificial winter car takes the stress off
@@adamf.4823 I use a bilt-hamber winter care kit and regularly wax and protect the undersides of all my cars. This will make a massive difference, but the best cars usually don’t see salt at all.
At least drive something interesting over winter, if you must have a ‘winter beater’ a mini cooper or a golf gti or something. Not like a Toyota corolla ffs, life is too short for that.
@@adamf.4823 Salt dissolve excellent in water. Where I live in Germany there are even in Winter more rainy days over the freezing point than salty streets. Mechanics saying that daily used cars can be in much better conditions than rarely used cars because the rain washes off the salt regularly while the worst thing is driving on a salty road and parking the car for weeks without washing it off.
That better be a £40 Beta socket set! The delightful t-handles in particular. :) Though IIRC Beta tools are actually quite expensive, especially the made in Italy stuff. It would seem improper to use other tools (be they German, French, Japanese or American) on a Ferrari (Beta tools used to come in the factory toolkit?). I note the Project Binky chaps preferring the iconic Beta 42 series combination spanners. :)
Your Speech of giving joy to someone who looks at such a car and letting them take a seat is excatly what I was thinking for quite some time. Every car has a purpose. A Station Wagon has to be roomy and able to transport stuff. A Smart should be tiny and super-userful in the city. A Sports/Supersport/Hypersport-Car has the Mission to make People happy, smile and make Memories. Very well phrased! Keep Rocking these awesome Vids!
I could not say it better- Congrats to Jay and Bjorn!
VERY MUCH SO.
I'm not sure that it's immoral to return the car to the dealer and get your money back, you can hardly be responsible for their business practices, and in any event, people who watch this have been forewarned about this dealership and can make their own minds-up as to whether to buy from them.
I have a Porsche and let people take pics in and around it all the time, or give someone a quick lift.
Very Nicely Done - THANKYOU!
Very interesting video James. That is a crazy list of items that has been overlooked by the dealer selling, many of those are common on the 360 (and pricey) so I suspect fixing them would have eaten all their profit margin hence wrongly turned a blind eye. Moral of the story is if you are buying a Ferrari or any expensive Supercar make sure you get a independent inspection done by someone who knows the cars very well (an internet search on for example a Ferrari forum will always get some good local recommendations) the inspection saving will often far outweigh the cost of issues they flag up.
Ill chat to you and find out the dealer and obvs avoid them. Other than that it's a great looking manual 360 which looks stunning in yellow.
Surely the 'ancient civilisation themed dealership in London' told you which one it was ;)
Was it build in a day ?
@@BUMHEAD1100 Indeed
The last advert I saw for the car had it at the higher end of the 360 market (£74k) - they surely MUST have had the money in it to put those things right... and STILL make a healthy profit?
@@spacemanclips Surrey?
I absolutely love your story! I own a 996 Porsche, nice but not extremely special. But when I drive it, I see kids look at the car pulling out their phones etc. One day I saw a kid, about 10 years old, in front of my house looking at the car and making pictures of it. I went outside and asked if he wanted to sit in the car and if he wanted me to take a picture of it with his phone. I can only imagine how he got home and told about his experience and proudly showed the picture, but the joy in his eyes told everything. Kid's day could not be broken anymore!
I had a really similar story but I was the kid in this situation, it was 2013 and I was only 12 years old and my dad was filling up his car at the fuel station and I saw this bright yellow 991 911 rolling in to get some air in the tires. I was stunned and kept staring at it because it was the cover car for NFS Most Wanted 2012 and I had read all the articles and saw all the videos about it and seeing it IRL blew me away. The Salesman who was filling it noticed me and offered me to sit in the driver's seat when it was stationary and offered me to start and rev it a little and when I did I was giggling with joy and he later made me sit in the passenger seat and gave me a 2 min drive in it. I have always loved Porsche but that day was magical, that cemented my love for Porsche and helped me set a goal to own a 911 someday. People like you are rare and a gem in the automotive society, even by a small gesture you help shape the lives of aspiring young car enthusiasts. You have my respect.
@@daarupappe Do you write for radio?
It must be awkward to attract kids so much!
I much prefer a car that doesnt attract kids, but a small handful of true petrolheads who just "know" give you that knowing glance 👍
I probably should have used that gentle rationale with my partner when I bought my Vantage (instead of bringing up the amount she paid for a piano, keyboard, books over the years etc...and causing an argument in the process)! :p
Top Man.😎
34 years of car performance ownership here, still waiting to encounter a dealer whom I came away from thinking 'well they're honest'
Yep, totally agree. That’s why I buy all my cars from BCA… but he doesn’t like them either ! 🤔
Because BCA have a reputation for selling exclusively honest, good cars with no hidden problems?
I read the title, saw the thumbnail, and hesitated. I thought you were about to dump on our 360s! 😅 They're a bit stubborn, yes, but so is my wife (must be an Italian thing). This was a great story. Thanks for sharing!
I spit out my coffee ☕️ 😂
Since when did you purchase a 360? I've been following your channel for a while and I think the last car i remember you talking about was that q60
@@TheWretchedWorld A little over a year ago! '04 360 Spider, red over tan. I actually traded the Q60 for a 991.2 911. Tuned with full bolt-ons making around 500/500 who/tq. It would smoke the 360 hahah.
@@GregSalazar Beautiful, that Porsche would have been an absolute sledgehammer of a car, but sometimes its not about that and about the visceral feel and the sound. The Ferrari will give you that all day especially with the roof down. I drove an F355 berlinetta 6 speed manual and though not being overly fast by todays standards few cars captivated me more.
@@TheWretchedWorld The 911 is basically my "daily" that I don't really "daily" because I work from home, but the 360 certainly has more character. It also sounds incredible with its Tubi exhaust! Not quite a 355, but close! :-D
I had a bunch of 18(ish) year olds drooling over my JDM classic last night at a car club meet in the city. Noticing their interest I walked over to them, said hi and listened for a minute as they enthused over its style and condition etc. With its freshly polished and pimped, piano black paint glowing in the car park lights it DID look pretty awesome. With no hesitation I asked the "ringleader" if he would like to jump in the driver's seat and check it out. With great fanfare he got in, smiling like a circus clown and sat there for a minute, hands on the Momo wheel while his mates flashed their iphone cams at him and gave a running commentary on how he looked and how did it feel.
It was a cool moment and I felt happy and contented as the bunch of them called out their comments and he responded with a big smile and genuine respect for me and the car.
Be a cool owner and Karma may well give you a break one day when you really need it.
A fine presentation on why owning a Ferrari is something special. Years ago I owned a black Testarosa, lots of kids sat in it, lots of friends drove it, lots went for a ride. Unlike previous owners, I drove it a lot, all over the West Coast of the USA. There’s a certain magic and sharing it is the best.
Spot on, reporting the MOT station. I had a similar situation (not a supercar sadly), where a “clean” MOT had missed headlight washers not working on xenons, badly and obviously corroded brake pipes, inoperative rear seat belt buckles, vacuum leak on the brake servo/booster, fuel filler cap not sealing and a front ball joint - all easy fixes but still obvious collusion between MOT station/technician and the dealer. And yes, I should have paid more attention and not put faith in an MOT free of advisories - its sad when you can’t trust the integrity of an MOT
This is fascinating. We don't have any sort of regulations like this in the US. Buyer beware, absolutely no recourse on used cars and no governing bodies that check for the things you've mentioned. Worse, the things that are checked for registration vary entirely between states, so little or no consistency.
Crazy to buy a car like this without any kind of warranty without having done a full inspection by a Ferrari specialist. Nuts.
Agree. Why the hell did they not take it to either of those two specialist mechanics workshops before they bought it. Pay them for a full inspection. For people who are making videos about cars, you come across as rank amateurs with this farce of a deal. You haven’t saved anyone by not returning the car. They are still in business so will just suck in the next customer with a different car. You have not named and shamed them I guess so you won’t get sued. So what was the real point of keeping that lemon. surely you could sue the MOT workshop as well. Not just report them. And I would have asked for a lot more than 3,000 from the crooks who sold it. It also appears that those headlights have condensation inside the covers. Should have got the crooks to give you your money back.
Getting the money back would have just landed the car with someone who might not have been able to fix it.
The car was getting MOT'd by an independent tester, they should have flagged all of these issues and at that point we would have walked away because a full PPI wouldn't have even been needed.
What happened here was an active attempt to disguise the state of the car
@@JayEmmOnCars you have to assume ever sale is an attempt to hide the state of the car, to assume otherwise is foolish
Daddy will pay for all the Pwoblems to get sorted.
@@jamesrobert4106 Weird comment
James - I've watched many of your videos (keep it going... they're great) but the sentiment that you expressed so well and eloquently in this one strangely moved me. I want to take this opportunity as a fellow petrol-head to express my deep respect for you and your desire to promote and share our automotive proclivity and your encouragement of others to do likewise. As a proud owner of a 991.2 GT3 here in Hong Kong (worst paved roads ever and getting worse) that's a constant fixture on Saturday/Sunday morning drives to Lu Lu's Café in Shek O (sort of our equivalent of Aces Café , as featured on a coupe of Seen Through Glass' HK videos) - a local petrol-head Mecca where everyone from the founding fathers of the Macau GP and Hong Kong's car scene to young blood congregate to discuss our fine proclivity (and sometimes even broker deals) over a bowl of noodles or a spam and egg sandwich, I for one (and as many of us do) practice exactly what you preach. Bravo, respect and I applaud you: very well said.
Thanks Mark! I hope to get to HK one day. Seems like an odd place - lots of nice cars, nowhere to use them (or am I missing something?)
@@JayEmmOnCars James Dean and a fast car. It could have been worse !
@@JayEmmOnCars Hi James - delighted you responded (hoped you would). The car culture here is actually incredibly strong (despite HK's fairly small geographic footprint) and whilst we have our fair share of young 'wide boyz' in either excessively modified JDM specials doing, quite frankly, silly things, or the latest Huracan Performates/STOs etc., (go figure, bearing in mind a new road-registered Performate costs about GBP480K), remarkably unpretentious. Whether you're in a Mark V Golf GTI (cool) or a Porsche GT1 (yup - there are 3 known in HK but only one of which has been seen in the wild), it's all good: car guys are car guys when its all said and done and there is an unspoken bond between us! To share one memorable moment: on the way home after breakfast I was leading a group of 5 assorted cars (S2000, Mitsubishi Evo 9, Gold R Cayman R and an Exige) for about 12 Km before I had to peel-off. I moved into my exit lane, slowed down, raised my right hand and, in succession, each driver pulled alongside, returned the salute then accelerated off. No clue who they were (other than having seen the cars parked in Shek O) and will probably never know, but that pretty much signifies the "bond" about which I speak.
The roads are, however, getting pretty shabby. I watched your video featuring the silver 991.2 GT3 manual (mine is PDK, which made more sense given local traffic conditions) and i raised an eyebrow when you complemented the ride quality but then figured, if it isn't the damping its got to be the road. But there are, of course, times, places short stretches that are passable.
Once HK dispenses with its current Draconian quarantine requirements I'd strongly encourage you to pay us a visit. I assure you it would be memorable and I'd be happy to do my part towards making it so. Is there some way we can stay in touch?
I'm a HKer who lives and works in California (also an F-car owner). For being the world capital of car culture and having no snow in any of its metro areas, I'd say California's roads are a fair bit worse than HK's!
@@JayEmmOnCars HK's mountainous geography and infamous overcrowding make it really difficult to really wind out a car with more than about 300 hp. You'd probably have more fun getting some cross border plates and driving on mainland Chinese roads. Some of the more hardcore enthusiasts tow and drive their cars to Zhuhai, the nearest racetrack, but that's really better done as a weekend trip rather than a day trip.
I can personally vouch for jay selling his cars fully working and in very good condition. The 130i was probably in better condition than he described and was better mechanically and cosmetically than 90% of 130is out there. It was a true joy to own. Me and the new owner have become friends and he is now enjoying it
In 2000 I bought a Ferrari 328GTS. I had it six years, serviced at a specialist and never spent more than £1k per year on it over six years. The previous owner shelled out £12.5k for a new gearbox just before I bought the car. I guess I was lucky.
328s are generally very reliable and easy to service. I've had my GTB for 14 years and it never played any trick on me
Had my 328 GTS for 20 years. Change all fluids regularly and cambelts. Easy to do myself. Probably a $1000NZ a year. Suppose I'll be in for a shock sometime.
@@darrellsimpson6966 cheers from NZ too
The dealer is Romans of St Albans. The text is from their "After Sales" ! page.
Your friend sounds like a man of his word and a gentleman. Sadly the MOT Station and the Garage that sold the car are not !
Very much this!
The 360 was my era, the F430 too but I've always had a soft spot for the 360! I remember the first one I saw in 2004, I was 15 years old and saw a gorgeous yellow 360 fly past me and my friends! the sound of the exhaust was just incredible and the speed. Now being at the age and having the finances to afford the 360 + the Gallardo, a good PPI will save you thousands.
I'm guessing your 34/35 ISH same as me and I had a 360 notebook yellow and loved this car
Seeing this has been so nostalgic taking me back and now that dream car is in grasp.
I love the older cars myself. Too much problems with the new cars
Wowzer what a bloody nightmare, but admire your honesty and the fact you did the right thing (and your friend)
Just shows you how careful you need to be when buying anything like this!!
Great editing, you have really reached a super professional (in a good way!!) presentation style without losing your individuality or becoming a bland presenter with no dynamism. You have definitely earned your subscribers with professional and interesting content and its great to see you being rewarded with continued success.
Thankyou, I know you have been watching a while so that means a lot!
Fantastic video, Jay. I truly enjoy your honest and insightful approach to the deliverance of your material, others should follow your example. As a long time proud owner/caretaker of my 360 Modena, my mission and hope is that my car will still be bringing joy to a lucky owner/caretaker long after I am gone. Cheers 🍻
Having lived in Northern Ireland until I was 35, I've always found the MOT system in GB an invitation to dishonest dealers and mechanics. It's good to see you did the right thing and broke the cycle of lies on this one.
Love a good JayEmm story. I clicked on this thinking "I've got stuff to do, I'll just see what he means about giving Ferrari a bad name" but sat and watched the whole thing...
Reminds me why I bought 3 Lexuses. Also reminds me that I need to book a service for my porker!
I've watched many of your vids, James - but what you said at the end in this one struck a chord the most. I'll never forget the smile of a young lad who jumped into the front seat of my Italian when I was on a petrol forecourt, and the unrelenting gratitude appreciation from his dad... arguably a small gesture, but it made my day 'sharing' the magic with a pair of petrolheads.
There’s nothing better than a good win-win situation. The last part of the video also reminded me of the phrase ‘be the change you want to see in the world’. It’s nice knowing there are people with integrity out there like James. 😀
Thankyou gents
Jay- I thought about making a snarky comment in regards to your advisement of this purchase. I truly love your channel. I’m just a bit of a smart Alec sometimes. When I heard your comment about being duty-bound to allow someone to sit in your car if they ask, it almost brought a tear to my eye. I recently bought a really special car to me and on multiplications I have had grown adults and children ask to drive the car or sit in the car. I have allowed this to happen every time. I could not agree with you more about this. This has brought me great joy to watch others get joy from the car. It’s a truly special thing that allows myself and others to share some special moments. Great to hear you put it the way you did.
Glad you stayed until the end - I think a lot of people haven't listened to the whole story and our motivations for doing what we did. If we just wanted money back that's easy!
@@JayEmmOnCars thanks for the reply 👍
I love these history videos you do. I think your decision shows you guys are genuine car enthusiasts. If you love a car, you look after it. Props.
In my father‘s case it was the brand Ferrari itself that gave themselves a bad reputation rather than the car they built. He has a 2012 California "30" and from all the approx. 50 cars he has owned it is by far his favourite. He absolutely adores it, it looks great with the roof open and closed, it has a great interior, it sounds absolutely wonderful, the gearbox is really really good and for everything he does with it it just seems to be perfect. Unfortunately he had a catastrophic engine failure at only 5000 Km (and just 2 weeks after warranty ended and only a few weeks after his last inspection at Ferrari). Sure, this can happen to anyone but the worst thing wasn't the 40'000 Euro bill. It was how Ferrari treated him despite him being very polite and understanding. I have never in my life experienced a company as despicable and arrogant as Ferrari in this case. It was a mind boggling experience and many people couldn't even believe the full story and everything that Ferrari said and did. Still, he he didn't sell the California and drove it for another two years and then AGAIN had (likely) the same error that led to his catastrophic failure. Fortunately despite having lost almost all of the coolant once again (without being notified by the car), he noticed early enough and the car could be fixed before the second catastrophic failure... He still owns the car to this day and is torn between enjoying the car (when it runs) and getting something from a brand that he could identify with better and likely not have such grave issues.
That would've never happened in Finland, due to our consumer protection laws. Even if a vehicle is out of warranty, the importer/manufacturer is responsible for any failures that are abnormal for the age/mileage of the vehicle.
A catastrophic engine failure at only 5000km and that costs him 40 grand to repair? Big ouch! Sorry to hear that, especially as it is obviously a car that he loves. Ferrari should have nigh on kissed his proverbial over such poor luck. The problem is that companies and brands held in such high regard feel that they no longer need to care about decent customer service. In truth these companies are the ones that should be treating all of their customers the best as they are overcharging for product and servicing.
Trade it in for the Lexus LC 500 convertible. JayEmm was very impressed and it's highly unlikely you will have a catastrophic engine failure at 5000 km.
@@mcduck5 No. There's no way he drove the car 5000kms in two weeks. It's possible yes, but it would mean driving it just under 360kms every day for two weeks straight. Not going to happen.
@@vibingwithvinyl I feel you may be correct....
What a great message at the end. I am lucky enough to own a Rolls Royce Ghost (a modern Ghost) and never turn anyone away who wants to talk about it (it can be a frequent event) and I regularly offer them the opportunity to sit in it. It is, as you say, a nil cost act of kindness, and in all honesty, I probably get as much satisfaction as the person I make the offer to.
Great video James! Very interesting as are many of the replies regarding the same model. I’ll never own an exotic car (though I did take a couple of passenger laps around a racetrack in a Lamborghini Miura in the late 60s. The owner not only made my day, it’s something I still brag about 50 years later.) The idea of gleaning so much joy out of sharing it with those less fortunate is truly beautiful and I salute you and other owners of these magnificent machines we appreciate the value they can give it no cost to themselves.
I subscribed on "The McLaren Video" a buddy sent me and I've been around since. This is another great example in the same vein. You're just talking about car ownership. Any of us with more heart than sense have been here in some form or another. Keep up the great work and good on your friend you're breaking the chain. I did the same recently on a 996 that came to me after 10 owners at a "great price!" 3 years later I certainly lost my ass on catch up maintenance (I bought it from a dealer I should add) but I sold it to a younger guy who was an DE instructor and immediately drove it cross country and hit the Tail of the Dragon with it and it survived. Quite proud of that I must say.
I've been caught out by the "clean MOT" trick a few times, albeit on cars worth a fraction of a Ferrari! Makes you wonder how they can sleep at night. My conscience would be constantly thinking "what if that ball joint let's go and causes a fatal accident", for example, but unfortunately a lot of businesses are totally devoid of any such conscience!! It makes it impossible to trust any garage that you don't personally know is genuine, which is a real shame.
Bigger issue for them is when one of their dodgy MOts kills someone
Too clean an MOT especially when buying from a dealer is an obvious red flag. When someone has tens of cars a month going to the same MOT place, they can be pretty overlooky to keep the business.
I don't think they would know about the issues that the car has. They most likely pay for an MOT pass, not caring about anything that may potentially be wrong with the car.
@@L0RDLUK totally agree. I don't think they even bother moving the car. I have seen my share of very obvious fails (broken headlamps, old tyres, rotten underside) with a fresh MOT sticker at many car dealers.
Most humans do not have a conscience, it is sad to say but it is true.
Look on the bright side, this car played a massive part in you being able to raise some very valid points around the purchase of every car, 'buyer be ware' being the most prominent. Have you considered ever standing for election.
Another great video James, your openness & transparency about cars of this nature & the running costs that come with them, which at times can be a bit frightening often gets overlooked, as you say with these & like a lot of other performance cars when they bottom out price wise it puts them in a price bracket where people can buy them but can’t afford to look after them properly, fair play for breaking the cycle fingers crossed the dealership sees this & takes it onboard & raises their standards 👍🏻
Fantastic video! Thank you for not just throwing blame around. You did fantastic job of balancing the risk your friend chose to take vs the commitments the dealer promised. I really enjoyed weighing the risks and rewards of the purchase you described.
I loved the final thoughts segment James. Thoroughly agree!
actually laughed when the mclarens flashed up
One of your best productions Jay. Full of factual, interesting and intriguing stuff.
A very honest assessment of an awkward place to be.
A great review James. Like you, I love sharing my cars. Any time someone admires it I'm happy for then to sit in it.. or even let my careful driver friends experience it from behind the wheel. Maintaining a car, especially a Ferrari, is essential if you want too fully enjoy it. However, as it's an Italian supercar, it suffers from Murfio's law. Anything can go wrong at anytime.
Im in the middle of a similar issue. I bought a 348 from a reputable Ferrari specialist three months ago who have maintained the car for the last owner for the past 6years. Since I have picked the car up its been a complete nightmare and quite clear that the maintenance has been bodged, and as you have experienced recent MOT passes didn't seem to pick up clear failures like the passenger seat moves freely as the slider mechanism doesn't hold it, which could cause a death in a road incident! The car didn't start after a stop on the way home from buying it, the garage was not interested in helping so I got a taxi to halfords and managed to fix the wiring issue on the side of the road. I found in the service history that the previous owner had reported this but the garage could not identify the fault - I fixed it at the side of the road...... I had to change the thermostat immediately as this didn't work and that led me to discover that the radiator drain plug had been snapped off in the hole and bunged with a piece of rubber. There are several receipts for coolant changes from the garage I bought the car from so at best they were aware of the issue, at worst they caused it. The car is very loud, and when my ears became accustomed to sound I started to hear a ticking noise that ended up being a knackered bearing on the timing belt pulley. The car had the engine out timing belt service at this garage two years but only 100 miles prior to me owning it. considering the state of the bearing when it came out and the old hardened grease everywhere id say its unlikely that the bearing had failed in the last 100 miles so would likely have been an issue at the last cam belt change. My concerns raised even more when the cam belt was removed and looked very deteriorated for a 100 mile old cam belt The date stamp on it shows it was over 5 years old when it was supposedly fitted two years ago - so I think the garage charged the previous owner for a cam belt service and then never carried it out. The last cam belt change before that would put the belt at 18 months old which sounds more believable. This is just part of the other issues with the car, the steering rack is knackered, the secondary air injection system has been removed, the roof leaks to a point where its impossible to drive on a rainy day. In summary, buying a car form a Ferrari specialist, with a MOT, excellent service history doest mean anything. If I did it again, id buy a private car from someone who has used it a lot and knows what they are on about. I think these garages thrive on peoples naivety. I'm trying to get some money back from the garage but its not looking positive at the moment.
clearly this "Ferrari specialist" was not reputable
@@Rockit181 the problem is that they are. Well known and used by a lot of people repeatedly. It’s worrying to think what else has gone on…
I am confused why you would buy a old Ferrari without a Pre purchase inspection by a specialist? Feel bad for Mr. Dean but he walked right into this one.
Any semi-competent MOT tester would have picked up all of the issues, somebody was actively trying to hide the state of this car. Like we said in the video, it seemed no matter where you get the car from, they have issues so we automatically assumed it DID have problems - just didn't realise quite how many (and as said, the history was good)
Yeah PPI would have stopped all of this
@@JayEmmOnCars i get your logic James but you know the deal with buying old expensive cars never assume, trust but always verify
@@JayEmmOnCars Maybe it is different in the UK, but here in Australia a RWC (local equivalent to a MOT) is pretty much only a safety/pollution inspection. The tester doesn't really care about the condition of the engine (as long as it is not showing a CEL and starts/drives far enough to do a brake test) or other non-safety/pollution related items. Point being a RWC and a PPI are two very different things. Sorry but I agree with the OP, no excuse for not getting a PPI on a Ferrari, especially one as old as a 360 which wasn't exactly the pinnacle of quality or reliability to start with and being purchased without a warranty.
@@slasher9883 an MOT in the UK is fairly detailed, it checks brakes, tyres, suspension, bodywork, emissions, all sorts. There was a list of 15 items that should have been picked up during the MOT and all were totally missed.
As it happens, I had a PPI done for someone on another car by a Ferrari dealer and that missed stuff too - so not as straight as it sounds! (Though they would have flagged stuff on this one)
I think this is one of not the best car review I've ever saw
The passion you transmit over this video about cars is epic
Excellent video James! What you said about letting someone sit in your car is 100% right. I’d like to see another video on this exact car!
Great stuff, I think you guys did the right thing
I like the ‘Fight Club’ splicing of frames of pure horror into the intro
Thank you for this video and greetings from New Jersey. Sorry to hear about the misfortunate experience. I do agree with everything you said. Maintenance of the car and sharing the joy with other people like letting them touch, take a picture, sit in the driver's seat even drive them for a mile or two just so they can hear and feel the engine is, in a sense of a duty of every owner. Your videos are very informative. Please keep up the good work! Many thanks.
Good video James! I’ve rectified a few cars before selling to the next owner being able to enjoy it over the years instead of having a bad experience. Unfortunately those who sold them to me didn’t think of it the same way
Just been thinking about this 360, I bet it's been clocked! Would explain a lot about various parts being excessively worn.
Yes would make perfect sense however it seems that the buyers aren't ready to admit that...
This should have been a Halloween special!
Jay, integrity is priceless so thank you for your take on breaking the cycle. Also your words about you never truly own it but keeping it for the next generation reminds me of Patek commercials. :) In any case, it's really surprising that all 3 of my favorite car reviewers are British.
Great story. You dealt with these issues in a really good way I commend you both. Pete 🇬🇧
I not only let people sit in the Scud but I’ve given at least a dozen friends and strangers rides and/ or rev the engine. The reactions are priceless.
Lesson here is always get an independat inspection to be on the safe side. There should be also be legal follow with the garage/MOT center in question here too. Really is disgusting they can get away with with it, or assume they can.
Agreed, a pre-purchase inspection is cheap insurance and I'm at a loss as to why one wasn't arranged here, particularly considering: a) This is a very expensive used car, b) It''s a make & model which is notorious for developing VERY expensive to fix problems; & c) It was bought from an independent non Ferrari affiliated dealer.
Oh man, what a catalogue of cars and a history of bad luck, and not just McLaren. These bills are just telephone numbers to me, obscene. For the cost of a major supercar service, a sports bike can be bought and ran for the year resulting in some of the biggest grins from ear to ear possible. So I don’t really get supercar ownership today, it would make me panic daily. That’s no fun at all.
And yes, when kids ask I allow parents to take photos of their little ones sat in the saddle. It’s a delight for everyone and I’m happy to oblige. I’m also happy you spent the time getting this message across Jay because there really isn’t (as rattled through in the vid) enough joy in the world. It’s acts like these that can make everyone‘s day.
Hoping one day to have a car worthy of a feature on the channel to share with all. Cheers!
Love your vids .. so a balanced response which I’m surprised you didn’t do/suggest. I’m on my 5th Ferrari with only one of them being new. The answer is one of 2 things .. buy a Ferrari approved which comes with a full Ferrari warranty or pay a Ferrari dealer to check the car out. ‘Yes’, either of these this will cost a few £k more upfront but will remove the unknowns you’ve experienced therefore enhancing the overall experience.
This sounds about on par with my experience with dealing with major dealerships. I thought everyone just got screwed over? I've spent over a year and £10k+ trying to get my R8 fixed. Audi dis a full PPI before I bought it, a month later it went in for a major service (£1.2k+) and was given back to me misfiring and leaking oil. Audi sorted the misfire but denied the oil leak was anything to do with the work they had done. It's spent 5 months on and off at a specialist essentially summarising that Audi had massively overfilled the car with oil and caused every possible oil seal to fail. I wish the sodding thing had just caught fire.
This stuff just put me off enthusiast cars and cars in general about 10 years ago when i started to keep things simple. Even with porsche and japanese cars it seems it's a crapshoot. One thing that started making a lot of sense to me though is mx5 sunday driving and hobby racing.
@@fredriksvard2603 I know, its so hard to find good workshops these days. Its the same story in Germany, and when you have an exotic car, almost nobody knows how to handle it. The parts are rare, they are expensive and hard to get. When you fuck up something simple like the described oil change on that Audi, then you should probably say that you dont work on these cars, or at least, dont let the trainee in its first year work on it. I dont get why some garages even take the job, when they are not qualified to do this. After all, I had many discussions later with them, and everybody of these told me that there was no fault done by them. Later you go to a specialist, and take the whole car apart and can tell who has done the damage.
But its hard to get evidence, and you will fight for your money 10 years plus, and then the workshop just goes bankrupt and you dont get anything anyway. Thats how it is, and I wont waste my time anymore with litigations.
Once you find a good specialist, KEEP HIM. And hope that he wont quit his job or his workshop.
@@Gentleman...Driver Yeah i had a jag when we had a wonderful expert mech who worked only on those cars, unfortunately he retired and all that's left are generalists who work on any car and are clueless about quirky old jags... if you can't do it yourself, maybe just see cars as appliances and stay within warranty windows :(
Yes it can be a hassle, and you might want the car so bad you rush in to it, but you MUST get it inspected by a recommended specialist BEFORE you buy. The MOT inspections are not an alternative to a pre purchase examination (as you found those items the mot inspection missed only added up to 25% of the repairs needed). That arrangement of removing warranty for a lower price, and no inspection, really was extremely risky. The fact that its an old ferrari, makes that decision seem unbelievable. However, this is a great video to reinforce the necessity of thorough pre purchase research and inspections.
This. I wouldn't trust any dealer.
If you watched my video on my 430 Scuderia, and saw all the remedial work that required despite being "Ferrari approved used" you'll probably see why we were somewhat wary of inspections at the time. In hindsight, certainly would have been the thing to do but sometimes you put faith in people and evidently, not all of them deserve it.
@@JayEmmOnCars it certainly is a very fraught business, buying old or classic cars. I tried to stick with cars that were more "basic" mechanically, corvette in my case, but still needed much attention. Make sure you have reserve spending money available over purchase cost!
What an amazing video. What an amazing way of thinking about the whole supercar thing. I do the same with my Ferrari. So many kids and adults have had a ton of joy either by sitting in the car or going for a drive with me. I service mine at the official Ferrari service center and I’m quite happy with everything they have done so far. And the maintenance is not that expensive for the car that this is. Congratulations once again for a wonderful video.
My absolute pleasure :)
Another awesome video, Jay. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already, but the watch brand you're referring to is Patek Philippe. Cheers from South Africa.
Romans International often have competitively priced & highly specified cars, a few times I’ve been tempted to buy from them. I shall be giving them a very wide berth in future.
It looks like it was Romans Of St Albans, not Romans International. Two different dealers.
Thanks, I hadn't worked out who the dealer was (although James' hint wasn't so subtle).
It's so cool to see a Ferrari that isn't Rosso Corsa. I love the fact that it's a manual transmission. Car guys everywhere should be appalled that it wasn't maintained properly. It's good to see it's in good condition now. I hope to be able to afford a car like this some day. Thanks.
Agree. Ferraris should be Rosso Scuderia.
Such a great review and sharing of knowledge. Very happy to be subscribed to your channel!
Excellent thanks JM. Informative and uplifting!
I love Jay's stories. The one about the McLaren 720's that the dad and son each bought and the dealerships were absolutely, positively horrendous and totally unbelievable. It was a saga. And they knew who he was at the dealership and avoided him like an unvaccinated person in a room full of Californian millennial liberals. Most of these stories are just so well told and the details are so well conveyed, you can picture it in your mind. Or listen too and chill out.
You'll notice that this 360 belongs to the son in the McLaren saga video series
It already makes my day to see this kind of car gets driven, never mind if someone let me drive it.
Well done James, loved the rant. Keep them coming.
Great video James, and a good insight to why inspecting cars before purchase is so important. Cheers Simon (Vint-tro)
This are the kind of stories which make me buy a new car over any used one, no matter how tempting the model may be.
What you don't think new cars suffer with issues ? 😂😂 Trust me there's just as many horror stories with new cars
Or buy cars that when they give you a big bill, you just give a vehicle salvage company a ring & ask when have they got a slot to collect.
This is why for a car like this you should buy from a specialist with a good reputation. Not some shite scam dealer.
If people don't buy used & keep them going, pretty soon there won't be any cool cars left. Just carbon copy electric rubbish that are only available to a certain portion of society. If we keep the older stuff going, be it a Mazda or a Maserati, we can keep these awesome bits of engineering available for another few generations.
@@benji6866
The difference being I get a brand new car in exchange for my hard earned money, rather than a machine which may have been neglected for years - and where the seller is actively trying to hide issues.
1:55 neat McLarens
Awesome video and well balanced summary. Thanks, JayEmm.
I like the moral dimension and the philosophy of a duty of care including using your super car to bring some sort of happiness to someone’s like. This to some degree a justification of splurging huge amount of cash in super car ownership, however the reality is somewhat different, some owners can be snobbish at best. Nice content JayEmm.
Heart goes out to that guy! I honestly thought the story was going to turn worse like the car was welded together.....
What an absolute headache that must have been. I’m surprised no proper inspection was undertaken though with the amount of knowledge yourself and I’m sure your friend has? You must have heard many a horror story like this over the years..
We did! However on this case we decided pretty much "Let's assume the worst", what we did not factor in was the dealer willing to get a shady MOT - had the MOT been legitimate it would have raised all sorts of alarm bells
@@JayEmmOnCars New Zealands equivalent of an MOT is a simple safety inspection. I can do 90% of it with a flat bit of concrete and a jack, how did you guys not give it a basic check? I mean it's all well and good to trust the MOT but it's not their money?
@@mcduck5 I'm not a qualified mechanic (clearly), MOT testers here are certified and there are a lot of rules for them to follow. I am shocked they ignored EVERYTHING and wonder if they actually even saw the car
@@JayEmmOnCars I get not being a qualified mechanic but what you describe should have been picked up by a basic look over, we are talking about a classic car here...
@@mcduck5 and the idea was the MOT was our basic, independent inspection of the car, that's the whole point of it!
Great story & advice! Thanks for sharing! Subscribed!
Honestly your a revelation jay a reason why you tube can be positive to others
I look forward to your videos every week
Especially when the masked singer is on
But joking a side I love your bmw reviews past and present I still own a e46 coupe but I want and looking for my Eleanor a e39 540i touring
I really don't like modern cars pre 2010 all tech and convenience I sound like a old man but I'm 37
And driven old bmws since I was 16
Can't beat them
This could, largely, be bullshit. Most of the faults mentioned are either minor or subjective. Play in a balljoint is very definitely not an automatic MOT failure. Ditto corroded brakes. It's a judgement call depending on how bad they are. Moreover, put any 40k mile sports car on a ramp and unless every suspension arm has just been changed and every item like roll bars changed, you'll find some joints with wear. I think it would be pretty easy to tell another side of this story where the car was actually fine, bar perhaps the incorrect belt. In any case, as these things go, the car as described sounds pretty normal. It's a 20 year old Ferrari with 40K miles. It's going to have quite a few niggles.
40k miles? No, that's just shit engineering.
Should have bought a Honda
Honda also have their issues, thanks to the complexity of technology in cars nowadays... However, I still trust Honda more over than other manufacturers.
Great review love watching your content
Very nice comments about sharing.
Your a nice man, we need more of this.
I looked at an Aventador with my young son a few years ago, didn't touch or get too close, stayed at least 4ft away, the owner shouted and got very aggressive, I smiled apologized and he and others looked like they were coming for a fight.
We left quickly, in slight shock of the experience. I have never gone near to an expensive exhotic car every since and will not in the future.
It was not a pleasant experience. Scary and intimidating.
but it's one of the most beautiful Ferraris
not even close
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@@JayM-is8js Yes that for real so many hate trading but how does this Bitcoin stuff really work I think I'm interested Can I start with $3000
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Brilliant. And thanks James Dean for your time given to the channel! Still waiting for the right time to get a California with the lights on the steering wheel #winning
Great story and your comments towards the end about making peoples day snd looking after a car really struck a cord with me. I’ve not had a car worth sharing for a long while but I hope to again one day.
My take from this video, and I always enjoy Jame's input, is that having a Ferrari is like having a trophy wife/GF who plays away but you don't really mind because you enjoy being seen with her on your arm!
Great video, James. Entertaining and informative, as usual.
I love the "duty bound" about letting people sit in your. Cars have always been my biggest passion and it brings me a lot of joy sharing my cars with others. I have yet to own anything exotic or even special by some standards but what I have had i always enjoy showing off. ❤
Bravo such a great video. 100% that cars that are beyond the norm are very social things and make peoples day. Also had the same experience with Torque Point (3rd name change in 3 years same people) in Milton Keynes got the std "must've happened on the way home" despite reporting them within 3 hours and the multiple issues obviously having attempted to be fixed previously.
Excellent video and totally agree that the dealer here shouldn’t have sold the vehicle with any known faults (especially those subject to an MOT inspection carried out just before Jay took delivery).
That said, it does highlight that the MOT is a very basic test of road worthiness and that not all MOT test stations are as diligent as the best.
The stakes are much higher with premium/super cars in that unexpected repairs can run to five figures (think Jay says the repair costs were £14k?) and if owners are maxing out their budgets on the purchase of the car, they face financial ruin in terms of addition maintenance/repair bills if they buy a lemon.
In short, whether buying cars like these privately or via a dealer, a full service history (from authorised specialists) should be provided along with the prospective buyer commissioning a comprehensive pre purchase inspection from an independent specialist (car on ramps/compression tests etc). It won’t provide any guarantees but will limit your risks with such a substantial investment.
great stuff ! Vince Lombardi once said: Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all-the-time thing. You don't win once in a while, you don't do things right once in a while, you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit.unfortunately so is losing.
It isn't just super cars that get this sort of treatment either! Back in 1986 I went to my local Ford Dealership and I was looking at a 1982 Ford Bronco (full size) that they had on the lot used! As a mechanic myself I walked around the truck looking at it when the salesman came walking up to me!! As he shook my hand and asked "So are you interested in buying this truck?" I told him I was!! And this is when it got weird!
Because the same salesman told me "The truck has never been off road, and has never been abused!" which I knew immediately he was lying to me!! You see I am trained as an auto mechanic, so I know certain things to look for on most cars! And unlike most people I not only walk around a vehicle, but I also crawl around under them when I am "interested"!!
So when he told me the truck had never been "off road", I had to point out to him that there was a large tree branch wedged into the floor pan, between the body and the driveshaft! I also pointed out there was leaves from a tree stuck in around the front end and suspension, and further showed up a broken driving light, a dent in the drivers door and the pair of bald front tires on it as well!! I also informed him that all four shocks had been leaking oil and that they needed to be replaced!
Eventually I did buy the truck, and I thought I got a good deal on it. BUT one last problem (lie) crept up to bite me bad in the end!! When I bought the truck the same salesman told me, "The truck has a brand new spare tire!" which could be seen through the back window glass!! After all his other lies about the truck, I had failed to look at the tire closely and further failed to ask why anybody would need a "brand new spare tire" in a truck that had never been "abused"!
As it turned out three months later, I got my answer on that "brand new spare tire", when I developed a flat tire one night, and when I went to change it!! That is when I learned the "brand new spare" had actually been spray painted black, and it had a huge hole in it!! Making it completely worthless as a spare completely!! And that too is when I also learned that the jack for the truck was missing as well!!
Hey Mr Plain Shirt! Thank you for sharing the story and please keep us updated!
Admirable integrity from both of you.
Fantastic storytelling and a great end message!
Well done James , it’s scary with buyer beware. You had a great team behind you being able to get the seller on board👍👍👍
Great video, you see a shiny, supercar that speaks to the heart, you never quite know what bills 💵 are waiting around the corner. Thankfully your pal had the cash to sort the issues…. Goes back to ‘buy the best car you’ can advice, because buying say an entry 360 at c.£50k without at PPI, then finding £10-£20k of maintenance, would shatter the dream for the majority 🤦🏻♂️ Great eye opening video James 👏 well done 👍
Fantastic video as always jay, always look forward to your content keep up the good work👍
The more I watch this channel and Jay, the more I warm to your way of thinking and doing things.
You sir are a star and I salute you!
Independent inspection is a must on heavy metal like this and can be a great bargaining tool then . Glad to hear that the Finance company were decent though 👍👍
Your best video yet mate! If you buy one of these cars that is 10-15yrs plus - you have a moral obligation to keep it on the road for years to come. A little care by everyone and no one has to take the pain like this poor chap did. Kudos for taking it however, so that all of us can enjoy the car. 🎉
I was in the Classic Car Club in London - I got to drive some amazing cars but got leave them with all the hassle. It's an expensive way to do it, but it's such a relief to hand a classic back at the end of the drive!
One of the best of your videos, every single word is valuable! Saludos desde Colombia!
Great video, especially the last 4 minutes, love your work, keep it up!
Very well said sir. I had a Ferrari FF and now a Golf R how ironic. Long story short does not have the prestige and theater that the FF offerred but now I can feel less stressed about ownership and maintenance of the Golf R while enjoying the 6 speed manual box i have always wanted in a performance car. I owned the Ferrari as well as the R with title in hand however I honestly was very uneasy and uncomfortable driving the supercar wondering what if? ...... These days I'm asking my self where to with a smile:)