The fact that the Amiga case was not mutilated (as some people do) is really pleasant to see, if needed/wanted it is totally reversible to the original state without any damage. 10/10 points for originality, 10/10 points for implementation.😃
@@NoelsRetroLab You might even keep it more original by keeping the original floppy beside the gotek. The memory expansion is smal, so you van put the gotek into the remaining space. Remove original trapdoor and floppy cable; store it to make your modification reversable. Make a floppy cable with 3 connectors, so you can wire up both floppy and gotec in parallel, but remove the df0 select wire and replace it by 3 seperate wires to each connector. use a switch to select to wich "drive" the df0 select is routed. Now load a trapdor from Thinkiverse and modify it to integrate the swich and an USB-port (for extention cable to the gotek) - by the way you also might also integrate the swich for MemExpansion on/off. Use a diplay+rotary encoder case instead display only... Of course if you want to keep the look of the Amiga as original, you might considering to get rid of OLED and encoder(keys totaly. FlashFloppy can also use a extra microcontroller to overlay the menue on the monitor and using the keyboard to select the adf...
Not wanting to make permanent mods is why I'm a big PiStorm fan. It even removes the need to cut traces and solder jumpers in order to get 1MB chip RAM on the original A500.
If you cut a old computer up your foolish. I myself did cut some metal inside a Commodore Colt PC to fix its clock chip but will never cut external plastic. These machines are very valuable now and growing more valuable each year. If intact.
John Cutter worked on Defender of the Crown and many years later I worked with him on two games for Big Fish Games: Fairway Solitaire (PC/Mac original version) and Unwell Mel (PC/Mac). He's a great designer! I learned a lot.
I know the purists out there are adamant about keeping such a system original but to me, the upgrade it far better and you can always keep the old part if someone MUST have it the old way. Using a faster and much larger capacity drive like the go-tech is certainly preferable. The silly thing is, is that if such a device were available back in the day... many people would have used it. I see no loss in the machine's value and in fact a large uptick in usefulness. Very well done as usual!
It may be worth mentioning that the Gotek can also be flashed using a male-male USB cable, using the DFU mode of the STM32. This may be an easier option for people that don't have soldering tools, although it also requires the same bridge on the headers.
That's true. I read about it in the flashing guide years ago and that was the first method I tried... and it failed completely. I don't know if my USB male-male cable was bad or what, bt I couldn't get it to work, so I always default to this method now. But you're right, it's worth trying since it clearly works.
Good work! I’ve found the best way to brighten discolored plastic is to use a high concentrate of H2O2 (12% is the highest I can find) and place it and your plastic components in a zip lock bag, place it in a bucket of plain water, and add a heater, such as an aquarium heater or, my preference, a sous vide heater. The heat replaces the sun energy and with the plastic components free-floating in the H2O2, you get a very even effect on the color. My Atari ST keys came out looking new and it only takes 8 hours or so. Best of luck!
I tried the sun brightening also. The results are Similar with yours. For the gotek, I use an external floppy case and I switch between df0 (internal fdd) and df1 (external fdd gotek). In the gotek I put an 16gb small size usb stick with the Amiga software. This works great for me. Anyway, good video Noel.
The "memory upgrade with switch" was most likely a 512K chip/fast expansion. The switch is for switching the configuration between 1MB chipram, and 512k chip/512k fast. This is because very early programs were not compatible with fastram configs, so you had to configure it as 1MB chipram. (You don't leave it this way for normal operation, because when it's all configured as chipram, it's slower.) My PAL A500 has this upgrade, with a switch accessible via the port on the underside. It really came in handy when I was producing MindCandy Volume 2 (Amiga), as some of the most early demos wouldn't run in the 512k fast/512k chip configuration.
Thanks a lot - again! BTW: For cleaning key caps you can reduce the time to an absolute minimum by just putting them into a bowl and adding 6 or so dental cleaning tabs and just let it sit for 1/2 hour or so. Rinse and dry. Done! No scrubbing needed.
Nice tip! I should keep that in mind. I've also heard of people putting them in the dishwasher (in cold water!). It would certainly be nice to avoid all that scrubbing with so many keys!
My method is a bowl of hot water with oxygenating crystals in - eg, Vanish Oxy-Action - and swirl them around. They are cleaned more-or-less instantly.
@@NoelsRetroLab I've been using the dishwasher for cases as well as keycaps quite a lot (at 55C) and it works very well. But I'm avoiding parts with serial number stickers since some of them seems to be affected.
For components that generate a lot of heat, hot glue is usually a bad idea -- even if it doesn't remelt, it can still get hot enough to slowly "flow" -- but you're right it's super temporary -- the best way I've found to remove hot glue came from Voultar's channel: use 99% rubbing alcohol -- just soak a little paper towel with it, and crinkle it tightly over the glue for about 30 seconds -- it should just start lifting up -- if it doesn't add more alcohol and try again. (It's amazing how well this works. My mind was blown the first time I tried it.)
Its looking really good and it was great that you didn't need to cut the machine. I was surprised that the buttons were not moved to the front as well, as I tend to find it easier to have them next to the screen. One of the mods that I like to do with floppy Flash goteks is to add the third button, as I think it makes it easier to move around the file system and insert and eject disks.
I've seen some Thingiverse files for the top mount OLED screen holder that allow for the mounting of a rotary knob (if you like a knob instead of the buttons) and I think there should be one that you can mount the buttons to as well. There is also a file that I personally use that moves the Gotek itself so the USB port is more centered in the floppy drive hole which makes it much nicer to get USB drives in and out (and looks nicer too) and still gives access to the buttons if you left them where the originally were.
I fully restored some old BBC Micro's using peroxide cream designed for bleaching hair, painted it on, wrapped the items in cling film & left in the sun all day. Took about three tries but came up like new!!
Haha, loving the 16-bit dance party! 🎉 I recently discovered sunbrighting as well after being sceptical for the longest time. Loving the mods here, agreed that a Gotek is a must!
Hi Noel, I guess you applied face down the back of the display housing. I think the two plastic rib should be fits into the ventilation notch and securely hold in place the whole display assy.
I put all keys of my C64C on carton board using double sided tape, put a thin layer of hydro peroxide in cream form on them, put that in seal able plastic bags and put that in a box with an UV light on top. That gave a very nice result. The idea was that all keys kept facing up during the process. I got the UV light method from Jan Beta's channel.
In order for all the keys to be the same color and look new, you had to arrange them with the letters up, but with spaces between them so that the light reached the pages and were completely covered with hydrogen peroxide. Mixed up like you did, with most upside down you have some well done and some partially done. By the way, I like the way you work and I want you to continue with good themes and good old computers. Greetings from a loyal viewer from Serbia! PS: Sorry for maybe bad English but it's google translate.
For the keycaps - just use a flat and transparent bin, put some double sided glue tape on the bottom, stick the keycaps to it, so they don't float away and pour 12% peroxide fluid carefully into it until the caps are submerged and place it into the sun. This works very well and intense. You can rotate the bin into another sunlight direction, so every corner and side of the caps will get it's sunlight (and heat)... But, the yellowing will come back. In month or years. Sooner or later...
@@NoelsRetroLab I live in a National Forest, so I don't have a ton of direct sunlight time. I just do it over multiple days. I think the results depend a lot on the particular plastic. I've had some that were great results and some that were just okay. I've learned not to worry too much about the coloring since once you whiten it, it's just going to start yellowing again anyway ;-)
What a change with the retro/sun brighting. Perhaps you can try using the Australian sun some day? We can take our yellow Amiga's to the beach, hahahah... Awesome episode Noel!
At that time I had a PC power supply unit on the A1200. I got one with only 100W. Mainly 5V is needed, + 12V for tone and serial, then -12V only for serial.
I'm jealous of you Noel, you get to play with all the Amiga's over there in Europe, and here in Canada, they're so scarce and rare to be almost out of range to buy, even on Ebay.
Printing with a beige fillament or painting with a close beige paint should help match things better. As others said, the display probably just clips on, no need to use hot glue again, no matter how much you want to! ;-) Big change even with just the sun, great work!
I have de-yellowed many systems without chemical's, just sunlight works great.. easier way to clean is allow to soak in soapy water for half hour, then brush of any stubborn dirt. After clean and bleaching use a car dash/trim cleaner restorer for a nice finish. Simple!
Yet again a great video Noel! The only thing I'd do different is to paint the fake button on the mounting bracket and perhaps the screen mount box, so it blended in a little.
Great to see another A500 get some TLC. I retrobited my A500 key caps in the same way. Orienting each cap in the bag to avoid any overlap and shadows is a total pain, but helps reduce any mottling. Looked so much better at the end, great comparison.
I tried several machines with the Sun brightening method and it all depends on the plastics. for a C128, an apple IIc : good results slight yellow remains. For Atari Mega STE : average.
I think there's an implication that there are at least 2 yellowing mechanisms. Maybe the old bromine-or-whatever mechanism requires the oxidizer to break up, while the newer mechanism can just be sun-bleached.
Nice job. Maybe you should spray with some car paint the led holder and the go-tek white internal carrier with a close match to the amiga colour to make it look even better.
You should try the latest USB flashing method for the Gotek. Just done my new Gotek’s and it was incredibly painless. No soldering required, just a single temporary jumper wire shorting across 2 holes, and a USB A to USB A cable. A much easier and better approach than soldering headers and needing a programming USB adapter. :)
Ok a like for the 16 bit dance party! Noel, what is your back ground in electronics how did you get into board level troubleshooting? I see the main tool is understanding basic electricity and electronics. You demonstrate how to troubleshoot electronic circuits. It can be overwhelming when you start out. What is important is the sequence of operation. Once you know how a circuit is supposed to work, it becomes easier to fix. BTW I love the way you present your material, just like another creator "Mr. Carlson's Lab" Both of you give me my fix for fixing retro gear. I so badly want to get an Amiga. Yes there is emulation but I want to tinker with this stuff.
I have a Computer Systems Engineering degree, but that didn't really prepare me for this. I pretty much had to learn from scratch how to diagnose and repair these kind of machines by myself about 5 years ago when a computer I had failed. I agree that things can be overwhelming at first, but you need to build up little by little, reading, watching videos and trying things (on not very expensive machines at first 😃). Good luck!
Very cool Noel, as always a very informative and nice to see video, thank you for it! I replaced my internal A500 floppy drive with a Gotek aswell and I love it. Also got a sound ticking mod... As I have an external disk drive I am still able to use floppy disks. I just installed a boot selector to choose whether to boot from Gotek (DF0) or from external disk (DF1), so everything is still possible. My case is in good condition, but my keyboard caps would benefit from retrobright too, but I did not manage it yet, due to missing sun :-) And I do not have that transparent, fluid hydrogenperoxide, I only have a white creamy version from a hair dresser, maybe combined with some water it might also work... Best wishes, Michael
I have that exact expansion with the switch. Mine too has succumbed to the battery corrosion, so I need to get a replacement at some point, but honestly, I don't know if it's really worth it.
Actually I prefer to retrobright using the thermal method instead of the UV method. Hydrogenperoxide simply needs energy to start the process of retrobrighting - no matter if it uses UV or heating. For smal parts like keycaps , mice or power supply housing I simply use a plastic box with a lid, put the parts inside, fill it with hydrogenperoxide - and put it inside my oven for 3.5h @65°...70°C. This work weather independend, quick and reliable. With very yellowed parts you might have to repeat it one more time to get a perfect result. This works so nice and easy, I am quite sad my oven is to smal for doing so with the whole Amiga case (and C64 cases by the way). As I have a lot of bigger cases flying around, I am even considering to build a 70°C "oven" myself, using a big but relativly flat plastic box, some thermal isolation - and old parts of upgraded 3d printers (like non-very flat heatbeds I replaced by more stable flat ones, controller board with A4988 stepper driver still usable for controlling the old headbeds, 4*20 LCDs I replaced by touchscreens and so on). With all this waste parts reused, some thermal isolation material pieces and Fermacell plates left over from my latest home improvment I would be able to make a thermal-retrobrighting box practicly for free (only the plastic box in the right size I might have to buy). But I have to give a warning: Amiga keycaps are pad printed (exept the early A2000 Braunschweig edition from Cherry with mostly Doubeeshot keycaps of course) . The print is protected with a clear protective paint. Hydrogeneperoxide attact this protective layer. So retrobrighting some keycaps a second time, the prints litterary swam away off some keycapts. I am pretty sure all of the keycaps will become blank after 3 or 4 passes of retrobrighting. But it is possible to reprint the keycaps with dysub transfer method. Simply search for "dyesub keycaps" on youtube, there are some very nice videos how to do so. Make sure you have the layout for all the keycaps prepared just in case... You might make a highres scan of the keycaps between cleaning and retrobrighting or after the first pass retrobriging. You do not need to buy a printer for making the transfer sheet) as any printshop making mugs or mousepads with individual photos can print your own (mirrored) layout for a small price. But I had an 12year old Ricoh Aficio 2100 I did not use anymore and bought a conversion set of replacement tanks and dysub ink for 60€ - works perfect. First think I made was my own mousepad with Amiga logo, of course... This it not only a warning, but also an oportunity: If you want to change the layout (for example english to german) you can use multiple pass retrobrighting to clear out the prints intentionally. It also works on new pad printed keycaps. Ever wanted a Pimiga 400 with Amiga keys? Simply carefully remove the caps with the raspberry logo, "retrobright" them multiple times and you will have blank keycaps - ready to be dysubed with Amiga "A"s.
I find the gotek much *less* convenient than using floppies. The 7seg version is downright unusable, but even with the oled, I find it extremely awkward and annoying to use. Also, I love that microsoft mouse. Best mouse they ever made.
Those Artery chips on the newer Goteks only seem to like Flash Floppy v3.28 or later. If you use an older version, the Gotek won’t let you select files.
Hola Noel, I've always wondered how would affect the strength of the hydrogen peroxide used in the result of the retrobright process. I see you use the pharmacy-standard grade of 10 vols (2.5%). It is legal to buy up 48 vols (12%), over that you would need a special permit (I've seen up to 50%). It would be an interesting experiment to see the difference between both liquids. I assume, correct me if not, that you can recover later the peroxide for reuse, can't you?
I find it interesting that you would put the case out into the sun to reduce yellowing when isn't the sun what causes the yellowing in the first place ?
At the time of me watching the video. It had 64 Thumbs up. I had to break that magic number and take it to 65. When the thumbs up reach 500 and you are about to take it to 501. Cherish the moment.
great job! but please make sure you don’t keep that Amiga where the sunshine’s since anything I’ve ever retro brighted over time (6 + months) will turn yellow again when exposed to the sun
Same results here with sunbrighting. C64C and A1200 came up great. C64 breadbin and 1541 no noticeable improvements. And I’m pretty sure it made the front plate of one of my 1541-II worse. It’s hard to get peroxide here though so not much choice.
Hey! Great video, just wondered where i northern spain you are because you could argue that catalonia is northern spain and the difference between there and galicia for example is very big.
Y'know, I think I actually prefer the C64 Turrican soundtrack to the Amiga one. Also, the C64 R-Type theme suits the game so much better than the original arcade soundtrack.
Great video! But after watching a few of your videos, I really think you should experiment with a better way of retrobriting the keyboard keys. At the moment it's just too hit and miss and random.
I've seen other retro folks use a UV light for growing plants and a box lined with aluminum foil and it seems to work well. Plus it can be left on day and night (maybe not a good idea if you don't want to owe lots of money to the electric company)
Nice video but a few things : - Goteks have no protection on the 5v line on the USB port, they can fry your motherboard. They shouldn’t be used. - FlashFloppy is a rather poor drive emulator with non existent support for native disk formats. For example it has (had haven’t checked in a few months) no dms support which is the format almost everything Amiga was released on the system. It also has no ipf support and poor everything else, its really just your typical adf files You should be using/advocating HxC 2001 floppy drive emulators instead and they’re not really more expensive than a gotek in the end (Lotharek sells them for example) depending on the model you end up using.
Did you have to leave it a long time out in the sun? And was it as bad as the PSU? Just trying to get an idea of whether there are limits to the yellowing that will work with it.
@@NoelsRetroLab It took probably 12-16 hours (i can't actually remember for sure) in HOT summertime sun to work. It wasn't quite as bad as the PSU, but it was pretty yellow.
@@NoelsRetroLab I've tried sunbrighting a SNES and a C64. the SNES was super yellow. It did improve but you can still see quite a lot of difference between the two shells (only the bottom was yellow). The C64 did turn out great but I'm still leaving it in the sun so it gets even better. So far it's been at least 10 days and there's still place for improvement. So far from my experience, the sunbrighting helps a lot but doesn't get rid of the yellowing completely.
Cool video! You can do mine too, we arguably have even worse weather here in The Netherlands 🤪 BTW technically it’s a 32bit dance party. The 68000 is a 32 bit machine with a 16 bit bus. Sorts like a 386SX 😉
@@0toleranz true but when you say X-bits you generally refer to the CPU. I never understood that Sega marketed the Genesis as a 16 bit system. Sure it had 16bit graphics but a whopping 32 bit CPU :) It’s always has been marketing hype ;)
well, I'd like to have a 16-bit dance party so where did you get that hydrogenperoxide solution because in Sweden that is a nono? Back in the day it was readily available in pharmacies but damn if I know where to get it now
Wouldnt a Halve-Bit party being better? An always-ON party, never going off... Hydrogenperoxid 11.9% is the highest concentation freely available to prived cutomers in EU. I got 5l in germany at Amazon. Hydrogen Cream (more comfotable to us for UV-Retrobriteing) is normaly used to make hair blond. So if you go to cut your hair next time, ask there...
If you have direct sunlight coming into that room, you should take the comparison picture 4 minutes earlier per day of difference. :-D (joking, of course but that should be about right)
Haha, actually it's the "studio" area with controlled lighting and no natural light. And I still managed to screw it up slightly if you look at the shade of white in the background, I didn't mark the exact position of the lights, so that was probably it.
@@NoelsRetroLab Ha, yeah, I figured as much. Just trying to be funny here. Love the video. I might try that sunbrighting technique. I live in SE Tennessee (USA) and we get "Mercury-like" sun all of summer and most of autumn/winter.
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The fact that the Amiga case was not mutilated (as some people do) is really pleasant to see, if needed/wanted it is totally reversible to the original state without any damage. 10/10 points for originality, 10/10 points for implementation.😃
Thank you so much! I'm definitely not a fan of modifying cases except when it's absolutely necessary, and even so, only if it's small and unobtrusive.
@@NoelsRetroLab You might even keep it more original by keeping the original floppy beside the gotek. The memory expansion is smal, so you van put the gotek into the remaining space. Remove original trapdoor and floppy cable; store it to make your modification reversable.
Make a floppy cable with 3 connectors, so you can wire up both floppy and gotec in parallel, but remove the df0 select wire and replace it by 3 seperate wires to each connector. use a switch to select to wich "drive" the df0 select is routed.
Now load a trapdor from Thinkiverse and modify it to integrate the swich and an USB-port (for extention cable to the gotek) - by the way you also might also integrate the swich for MemExpansion on/off.
Use a diplay+rotary encoder case instead display only...
Of course if you want to keep the look of the Amiga as original, you might considering to get rid of OLED and encoder(keys totaly. FlashFloppy can also use a extra microcontroller to overlay the menue on the monitor and using the keyboard to select the adf...
@@oleurgast730 Never quite got why people are so bothered by people upgrading Amigas. GOTEKs etc are so much easier to work with.
Not wanting to make permanent mods is why I'm a big PiStorm fan. It even removes the need to cut traces and solder jumpers in order to get 1MB chip RAM on the original A500.
If you cut a old computer up your foolish. I myself did cut some metal inside a Commodore Colt PC to fix its clock chip but will never cut external plastic. These machines are very valuable now and growing more valuable each year. If intact.
John Cutter worked on Defender of the Crown and many years later I worked with him on two games for Big Fish Games: Fairway Solitaire (PC/Mac original version) and Unwell Mel (PC/Mac). He's a great designer! I learned a lot.
Oh wow, I had no idea!! Defender of the Crown was an amazing game for the time (and it still is in many ways). Major respect!
No drilling no destruction, this is soooo cooool! And as always a well earned thumb up. Cheers.
"I'm in northern Spain and we don't get many sunny days."
*Stares at the Irish grey sky...*
Yeah was thinking the same thing..... But ain't we spoilt in Ireland with all that water ;)
lol Keith..
Wanta pint a guiness ? ^_^
lol
Irish people \m/
fcuk yeah best people to drink with at a pub. Especially travellers lol
I know the purists out there are adamant about keeping such a system original but to me, the upgrade it far better and you can always keep the old part if someone MUST have it the old way. Using a faster and much larger capacity drive like the go-tech is certainly preferable. The silly thing is, is that if such a device were available back in the day... many people would have used it. I see no loss in the machine's value and in fact a large uptick in usefulness. Very well done as usual!
It may be worth mentioning that the Gotek can also be flashed using a male-male USB cable, using the DFU mode of the STM32. This may be an easier option for people that don't have soldering tools, although it also requires the same bridge on the headers.
That's true. I read about it in the flashing guide years ago and that was the first method I tried... and it failed completely. I don't know if my USB male-male cable was bad or what, bt I couldn't get it to work, so I always default to this method now. But you're right, it's worth trying since it clearly works.
Good work! I’ve found the best way to brighten discolored plastic is to use a high concentrate of H2O2 (12% is the highest I can find) and place it and your plastic components in a zip lock bag, place it in a bucket of plain water, and add a heater, such as an aquarium heater or, my preference, a sous vide heater. The heat replaces the sun energy and with the plastic components free-floating in the H2O2, you get a very even effect on the color. My Atari ST keys came out looking new and it only takes 8 hours or so.
Best of luck!
I tried the sun brightening also. The results are Similar with yours. For the gotek, I use an external floppy case and I switch between df0 (internal fdd) and df1 (external fdd gotek). In the gotek I put an 16gb small size usb stick with the Amiga software. This works great for me. Anyway, good video Noel.
The "memory upgrade with switch" was most likely a 512K chip/fast expansion. The switch is for switching the configuration between 1MB chipram, and 512k chip/512k fast. This is because very early programs were not compatible with fastram configs, so you had to configure it as 1MB chipram. (You don't leave it this way for normal operation, because when it's all configured as chipram, it's slower.) My PAL A500 has this upgrade, with a switch accessible via the port on the underside. It really came in handy when I was producing MindCandy Volume 2 (Amiga), as some of the most early demos wouldn't run in the 512k fast/512k chip configuration.
Great video Noel. Now I have the Turrican soundtrack stuck in my head.
Thanks a lot - again!
BTW: For cleaning key caps you can reduce the time to an absolute minimum by just putting them into a bowl and adding 6 or so dental cleaning tabs and just let it sit for 1/2 hour or so. Rinse and dry. Done! No scrubbing needed.
Nice tip! I should keep that in mind. I've also heard of people putting them in the dishwasher (in cold water!). It would certainly be nice to avoid all that scrubbing with so many keys!
@@NoelsRetroLab an ultrasonic cleaner might work well for keycaps.
"dental cleaning tabs" Denture cleaning tabs?
My method is a bowl of hot water with oxygenating crystals in - eg, Vanish Oxy-Action - and swirl them around. They are cleaned more-or-less instantly.
@@NoelsRetroLab I've been using the dishwasher for cases as well as keycaps quite a lot (at 55C) and it works very well. But I'm avoiding parts with serial number stickers since some of them seems to be affected.
For components that generate a lot of heat, hot glue is usually a bad idea -- even if it doesn't remelt, it can still get hot enough to slowly "flow" -- but you're right it's super temporary -- the best way I've found to remove hot glue came from Voultar's channel: use 99% rubbing alcohol -- just soak a little paper towel with it, and crinkle it tightly over the glue for about 30 seconds -- it should just start lifting up -- if it doesn't add more alcohol and try again. (It's amazing how well this works. My mind was blown the first time I tried it.)
Its looking really good and it was great that you didn't need to cut the machine.
I was surprised that the buttons were not moved to the front as well, as I tend to find it easier to have them next to the screen.
One of the mods that I like to do with floppy Flash goteks is to add the third button, as I think it makes it easier to move around the file system and insert and eject disks.
I've seen some Thingiverse files for the top mount OLED screen holder that allow for the mounting of a rotary knob (if you like a knob instead of the buttons) and I think there should be one that you can mount the buttons to as well. There is also a file that I personally use that moves the Gotek itself so the USB port is more centered in the floppy drive hole which makes it much nicer to get USB drives in and out (and looks nicer too) and still gives access to the buttons if you left them where the originally were.
I fully restored some old BBC Micro's using peroxide cream designed for bleaching hair, painted it on, wrapped the items in cling film & left in the sun all day. Took about three tries but came up like new!!
Haha, loving the 16-bit dance party! 🎉
I recently discovered sunbrighting as well after being sceptical for the longest time. Loving the mods here, agreed that a Gotek is a must!
Hi Noel, I guess you applied face down the back of the display housing. I think the two plastic rib should be fits into the ventilation notch and securely hold in place the whole display assy.
Ooooooohhhh! I thought those were to hold the screen in place, but you're probably right 😃
Thanks for the instructional part on the Gotek. That will be very useful.
I put all keys of my C64C on carton board using double sided tape, put a thin layer of hydro peroxide in cream form on them, put that in seal able plastic bags and put that in a box with an UV light on top. That gave a very nice result. The idea was that all keys kept facing up during the process. I got the UV light method from Jan Beta's channel.
In order for all the keys to be the same color and look new, you had to arrange them with the letters up, but with spaces between them so that the light reached the pages and were completely covered with hydrogen peroxide. Mixed up like you did, with most upside down you have some well done and some partially done.
By the way, I like the way you work and I want you to continue with good themes and good old computers. Greetings from a loyal viewer from Serbia!
PS: Sorry for maybe bad English but it's google translate.
For the keycaps - just use a flat and transparent bin, put some double sided glue tape on the bottom, stick the keycaps to it, so they don't float away and pour 12% peroxide fluid carefully into it until the caps are submerged and place it into the sun. This works very well and intense. You can rotate the bin into another sunlight direction, so every corner and side of the caps will get it's sunlight (and heat)...
But, the yellowing will come back. In month or years. Sooner or later...
Imo it's pointless
Another great video of yours! :-D
Please Noel! Install the Pî-Storm hack on this Amiga. We all want to see it for sure! ;-)
I just got them Pi Storms, so that's definitely happening! 👍
Very nice idea with the display on top. I had the same approach with just taping the display on my A500 ( rough fix).
The sound of the disk buzzer is surprisingly nice...
Neato ;-) I've done "sunbrighting" on a Plus/4 with similar results. Good video as usual sir.
Thank you very much. So similar results meaning... not total improvement? And I believe you have much more sun than I do!
@@NoelsRetroLab I live in a National Forest, so I don't have a ton of direct sunlight time. I just do it over multiple days. I think the results depend a lot on the particular plastic. I've had some that were great results and some that were just okay. I've learned not to worry too much about the coloring since once you whiten it, it's just going to start yellowing again anyway ;-)
I was thinking key logger when you said it was attached to the keyboard.
What a change with the retro/sun brighting. Perhaps you can try using the Australian sun some day? We can take our yellow Amiga's to the beach, hahahah... Awesome episode Noel!
Thanks for the great video 👍 i’m 4/5 way of transplanting an a500+ into an a500++ pcb, hopefully get it to boot over the weekend 🤞
At that time I had a PC power supply unit on the A1200. I got one with only 100W.
Mainly 5V is needed, + 12V for tone and serial, then -12V only for serial.
I'm jealous of you Noel, you get to play with all the Amiga's over there in Europe, and here in Canada, they're so scarce and rare to be almost out of range to buy, even on Ebay.
Printing with a beige fillament or painting with a close beige paint should help match things better. As others said, the display probably just clips on, no need to use hot glue again, no matter how much you want to! ;-) Big change even with just the sun, great work!
I have de-yellowed many systems without chemical's, just sunlight works great.. easier way to clean is allow to soak in soapy water for half hour, then brush of any stubborn dirt. After clean and bleaching use a car dash/trim cleaner restorer for a nice finish. Simple!
Yet again a great video Noel! The only thing I'd do different is to paint the fake button on the mounting bracket and perhaps the screen mount box, so it blended in a little.
Did you finish of battery repair and what did you do with memory expansion? Great video keep it up
Great to see another A500 get some TLC. I retrobited my A500 key caps in the same way. Orienting each cap in the bag to avoid any overlap and shadows is a total pain, but helps reduce any mottling. Looked so much better at the end, great comparison.
Will you do this every 2 years?
I tried several machines with the Sun brightening method and it all depends on the plastics. for a C128, an apple IIc : good results slight yellow remains. For Atari Mega STE : average.
Direct sun light retrobrightening makes plastics brittle…
@@BlackGymkhana Proof?
@@BlackGymkhana Is this from your personal experience ? Do tell !
I think there's an implication that there are at least 2 yellowing mechanisms. Maybe the old bromine-or-whatever mechanism requires the oxidizer to break up, while the newer mechanism can just be sun-bleached.
Nice job. Maybe you should spray with some car paint the led holder and the go-tek white internal carrier with a close match to the amiga colour to make it look even better.
It could be interesting to paint the LCD container with a creamy white if available and add keys externally as well.
The result was still good regardless. Hard to notice until your nice slider before and after shots. Nice work.
Thanks 👍
any real dance party (8bit or 16bit) should have hands playing air drums.
So, you can put the keys in water with hydrogen peroxide on the stove. I haven't tried it, but I think the 8-bit guy uses this method.
I tried this method on a tank mouse.
Did work indeed, but yellowing was back soon.
You should try the latest USB flashing method for the Gotek. Just done my new Gotek’s and it was incredibly painless. No soldering required, just a single temporary jumper wire shorting across 2 holes, and a USB A to USB A cable. A much easier and better approach than soldering headers and needing a programming USB adapter. :)
Is this for the newer Gotechs? Do you know how to tell the difference?
I think you are a bit harsh on yourself with the retrobrite. For how yellow it was it's come up really good. Excellent job.
I sprayed mine orange and it looked brilliant ,its a shame commadore did not offer the amiga in other colours
Ok a like for the 16 bit dance party! Noel, what is your back ground in electronics how did you get into board level troubleshooting? I see the main tool is understanding basic electricity and electronics. You demonstrate how to troubleshoot electronic circuits. It can be overwhelming when you start out. What is important is the sequence of operation. Once you know how a circuit is supposed to work, it becomes easier to fix. BTW I love the way you present your material, just like another creator "Mr. Carlson's Lab" Both of you give me my fix for fixing retro gear. I so badly want to get an Amiga. Yes there is emulation but I want to tinker with this stuff.
I have a Computer Systems Engineering degree, but that didn't really prepare me for this. I pretty much had to learn from scratch how to diagnose and repair these kind of machines by myself about 5 years ago when a computer I had failed. I agree that things can be overwhelming at first, but you need to build up little by little, reading, watching videos and trying things (on not very expensive machines at first 😃). Good luck!
Very cool Noel, as always a very informative and nice to see video, thank you for it! I replaced my internal A500 floppy drive with a Gotek aswell and I love it. Also got a sound ticking mod... As I have an external disk drive I am still able to use floppy disks. I just installed a boot selector to choose whether to boot from Gotek (DF0) or from external disk (DF1), so everything is still possible. My case is in good condition, but my keyboard caps would benefit from retrobright too, but I did not manage it yet, due to missing sun :-) And I do not have that transparent, fluid hydrogenperoxide, I only have a white creamy version from a hair dresser, maybe combined with some water it might also work... Best wishes, Michael
1:37 I see what you did there - nice obscure reference!
Care to enlighten the rest of us?
Esas rallas amarillas como son poca superficie son lo ideal para la crema decolorante capilar deliplus del mercadona
20:52 I recognise that wire... Greetings from sunny Sheffield-on-Sea! =)
I have that exact expansion with the switch. Mine too has succumbed to the battery corrosion, so I need to get a replacement at some point, but honestly, I don't know if it's really worth it.
Actually I prefer to retrobright using the thermal method instead of the UV method. Hydrogenperoxide simply needs energy to start the process of retrobrighting - no matter if it uses UV or heating.
For smal parts like keycaps , mice or power supply housing I simply use a plastic box with a lid, put the parts inside, fill it with hydrogenperoxide - and put it inside my oven for 3.5h @65°...70°C. This work weather independend, quick and reliable. With very yellowed parts you might have to repeat it one more time to get a perfect result.
This works so nice and easy, I am quite sad my oven is to smal for doing so with the whole Amiga case (and C64 cases by the way). As I have a lot of bigger cases flying around, I am even considering to build a 70°C "oven" myself, using a big but relativly flat plastic box, some thermal isolation - and old parts of upgraded 3d printers (like non-very flat heatbeds I replaced by more stable flat ones, controller board with A4988 stepper driver still usable for controlling the old headbeds, 4*20 LCDs I replaced by touchscreens and so on). With all this waste parts reused, some thermal isolation material pieces and Fermacell plates left over from my latest home improvment I would be able to make a thermal-retrobrighting box practicly for free (only the plastic box in the right size I might have to buy).
But I have to give a warning: Amiga keycaps are pad printed (exept the early A2000 Braunschweig edition from Cherry with mostly Doubeeshot keycaps of course) . The print is protected with a clear protective paint. Hydrogeneperoxide attact this protective layer. So retrobrighting some keycaps a second time, the prints litterary swam away off some keycapts. I am pretty sure all of the keycaps will become blank after 3 or 4 passes of retrobrighting.
But it is possible to reprint the keycaps with dysub transfer method. Simply search for "dyesub keycaps" on youtube, there are some very nice videos how to do so. Make sure you have the layout for all the keycaps prepared just in case... You might make a highres scan of the keycaps between cleaning and retrobrighting or after the first pass retrobriging. You do not need to buy a printer for making the transfer sheet) as any printshop making mugs or mousepads with individual photos can print your own (mirrored) layout for a small price. But I had an 12year old Ricoh Aficio 2100 I did not use anymore and bought a conversion set of replacement tanks and dysub ink for 60€ - works perfect. First think I made was my own mousepad with Amiga logo, of course...
This it not only a warning, but also an oportunity: If you want to change the layout (for example english to german) you can use multiple pass retrobrighting to clear out the prints intentionally. It also works on new pad printed keycaps. Ever wanted a Pimiga 400 with Amiga keys? Simply carefully remove the caps with the raspberry logo, "retrobright" them multiple times and you will have blank keycaps - ready to be dysubed with Amiga "A"s.
Loved the mods.
I hope you are healthy and stay that way.
Take care. Cheers
Thumbs up just for Defender of the Crown, alone. The rest of the video was great as well, too. ;)
I find the gotek much *less* convenient than using floppies. The 7seg version is downright unusable, but even with the oled, I find it extremely awkward and annoying to use. Also, I love that microsoft mouse. Best mouse they ever made.
It looks a great deal better. I like the Gotek screen case.
Your floppy cable is backward at both ends. It still works, but the red stripe should align with Pin 1 on both ends.
Can someone please tell what MOD is playing in the 16bit dance party? I probably missed it somewhere in the video and description :-(
Great video! maybe it would have been better to use the cream peroxide on the keyboard keys that might have worked better than liquid.
Those Artery chips on the newer Goteks only seem to like Flash Floppy v3.28 or later. If you use an older version, the Gotek won’t let you select files.
Hola Noel, I've always wondered how would affect the strength of the hydrogen peroxide used in the result of the retrobright process. I see you use the pharmacy-standard grade of 10 vols (2.5%). It is legal to buy up 48 vols (12%), over that you would need a special permit (I've seen up to 50%). It would be an interesting experiment to see the difference between both liquids. I assume, correct me if not, that you can recover later the peroxide for reuse, can't you?
It's actually a 32-bit machine, even if the bus is only 16 bits wide.
I find it interesting that you would put the case out into the sun to reduce yellowing when isn't the sun what causes the yellowing in the first place ?
At the time of me watching the video. It had 64 Thumbs up. I had to break that magic number and take it to 65.
When the thumbs up reach 500 and you are about to take it to 501. Cherish the moment.
great job! but please make sure you don’t keep that Amiga where the sunshine’s since anything I’ve ever retro brighted over time (6 + months) will turn yellow again when exposed to the sun
Hi Noel -- can you use an artificial UV light source -- like a UV lamp for retrobrighting?
Oh, atleast a Commodore! I know i just get on nerves but i like to see a C 16 on the channel.
What a great channel, subscribed!
Great episode (as usual 👍). Question: Could you use an ultraviolet lamp, or lamps, to solve the “inconsistent sun” challenge?
DIDNT work for me
I learned the sunny days in northern Spain are not that numerous. Who knew?
I've had no problem re-flashing Gotek (STM32) through its USB port, without having to use TTL/serial adapter.
Same results here with sunbrighting. C64C and A1200 came up great. C64 breadbin and 1541 no noticeable improvements. And I’m pretty sure it made the front plate of one of my 1541-II worse. It’s hard to get peroxide here though so not much choice.
try pool supply stores. they sell VERY high concentration peroxide there (it will bleach your skin. not kidding). you can dilute it as needed.
Hey! Great video, just wondered where i northern spain you are because you could argue that catalonia is northern spain and the difference between there and galicia for example is very big.
I'm in Asturias, which explains the lack of sun.
The funny thing is I like the yellow keys.
That makes it even easier! 😃👍
@@NoelsRetroLab to be fair the keys did look better once you retro brighted them 🤣🤣
Y'know, I think I actually prefer the C64 Turrican soundtrack to the Amiga one. Also, the C64 R-Type theme suits the game so much better than the original arcade soundtrack.
Great stuff Noel. Thanks.
Great video! But after watching a few of your videos, I really think you should experiment with a better way of retrobriting the keyboard keys. At the moment it's just too hit and miss and random.
I've seen other retro folks use a UV light for growing plants and a box lined with aluminum foil and it seems to work well. Plus it can be left on day and night (maybe not a good idea if you don't want to owe lots of money to the electric company)
Nice video but a few things :
- Goteks have no protection on the 5v line on the USB port, they can fry your motherboard. They shouldn’t be used.
- FlashFloppy is a rather poor drive emulator with non existent support for native disk formats. For example it has (had haven’t checked in a few months) no dms support which is the format almost everything Amiga was released on the system. It also has no ipf support and poor everything else, its really just your typical adf files
You should be using/advocating HxC 2001 floppy drive emulators instead and they’re not really more expensive than a gotek in the end (Lotharek sells them for example) depending on the model you end up using.
Ohhh dios mio, tambien habla español... n_n esto se pone mejor cada vez que regreso xD
Yeah, sun only completely depends on the material. I've had great success with some old PC cases.
Hey Noel, has anyone modded the setup to include the gotek buttons up beside the oled disply.. That be cool...
I sunbrighted a 1571 drive, worked flawlessly
Did you have to leave it a long time out in the sun? And was it as bad as the PSU? Just trying to get an idea of whether there are limits to the yellowing that will work with it.
@@NoelsRetroLab It took probably 12-16 hours (i can't actually remember for sure) in HOT summertime sun to work. It wasn't quite as bad as the PSU, but it was pretty yellow.
@@NoelsRetroLab I've tried sunbrighting a SNES and a C64. the SNES was super yellow. It did improve but you can still see quite a lot of difference between the two shells (only the bottom was yellow). The C64 did turn out great but I'm still leaving it in the sun so it gets even better. So far it's been at least 10 days and there's still place for improvement.
So far from my experience, the sunbrighting helps a lot but doesn't get rid of the yellowing completely.
Cool video! You can do mine too, we arguably have even worse weather here in The Netherlands 🤪 BTW technically it’s a 32bit dance party. The 68000 is a 32 bit machine with a 16 bit bus. Sorts like a 386SX 😉
And if remember correctly the sound on the amiga500 were just 8bit PCM channels - 4 of em so a mixed bag of technologies ;)
@@0toleranz true but when you say X-bits you generally refer to the CPU. I never understood that Sega marketed the Genesis as a 16 bit system. Sure it had 16bit graphics but a whopping 32 bit CPU :) It’s always has been marketing hype ;)
I remember back in the day, the cpu was marketed as a 24bit machine… 32 bit cpu with a 16 bit address block.
@@SuperVstech really?! That’s a weird marketing term :) I have never heard that being used, hilarious!
Is there still een option to read old disks? Or is this an unlikely scenario?
5:13 So you now have the perfect excuse to get an house in south of Spain. Sevilla for instance.
Haha, I would totally melt there! I find it too hot here already so you can imagine how I'd be there 🥵
Did the walls got a retrobright too?
Gran trabajo, felicitaciones.👍
well, I'd like to have a 16-bit dance party so where did you get that hydrogenperoxide solution because in Sweden that is a nono? Back in the day it was readily available in pharmacies but damn if I know where to get it now
Wouldnt a Halve-Bit party being better? An always-ON party, never going off...
Hydrogenperoxid 11.9% is the highest concentation freely available to prived cutomers in EU. I got 5l in germany at Amazon.
Hydrogen Cream (more comfotable to us for UV-Retrobriteing) is normaly used to make hair blond. So if you go to cut your hair next time, ask there...
@@oleurgast730 Thanks man, I appreciate it. About cutting my hair, I think I lost all of it trying to find hydrogen peroxide lol
Spain? From your accent, I could swear you are Nordic! Cheers from the other side of the border
Great video. Thx
Flash Floppy! lol .. you would get arrested for that !
@3:24 😁
16Bit party music title?
It's from Turrican 2. There are loads of great songs on that game!
why not baking soda on the inside rust also?
24:27 It's a 16/32-bit machine.
If you have direct sunlight coming into that room, you should take the comparison picture 4 minutes earlier per day of difference. :-D (joking, of course but that should be about right)
Haha, actually it's the "studio" area with controlled lighting and no natural light. And I still managed to screw it up slightly if you look at the shade of white in the background, I didn't mark the exact position of the lights, so that was probably it.
@@NoelsRetroLab Ha, yeah, I figured as much. Just trying to be funny here. Love the video. I might try that sunbrighting technique. I live in SE Tennessee (USA) and we get "Mercury-like" sun all of summer and most of autumn/winter.
not another one whit pcpway grrrr anyway love all of your video
Have a 500 plus, an A600 & a 1200 with a hard drive, all with degrees of yellowing 🤔
Why do Gotek use black plastic anyway? Floppy drives were usually a cream colour.
@Mr Guru mine is cream color so I know they exist. Though its more of a white than what retro computers tend to be.
I'm from Finland, and now i'm hearing that the sun can help Amiga? Is that true? Beacuse i still have Amiga 500, and it also works. 🐈😸😺