When I contrast my experience listening to secular music as an unbeliever with listening to those songs again many years later, I am shocked at the lyrics. Pre-conversion I got so caught up with the music I neglected the lyrics. That’s why I’m so glad God saved me and “turned me on” to contemporary Christian music like GLAD where both music and lyrics glorify the Lord. Thank you Bob and David. (Watching from Tanzania)
Thank you brothers for this. I was expecting more of an exposition on the mindless repetition of most modern “worship” songs, but you’ve offered a well rounded perspective. I serve as a vocalist in my local gathering. We sing and love many Sovereign Grace songs. The first time I heard and sang “Behold Our God” I was deeply moved and couldn’t stop the waterworks. These profound theological truths are powerful and life changing. And yes, the Gospel is enough… over and over and over again. 💞
At 6:45 after David says the Gospel is all we have and need, I immediately started singing "All we Have, Oh All we Neeed, All we want is You!!" Haha thankful for sovereign grace music. Our worship playlist is on *repeat* in our home. Thanks for the helpful podcast!
Thank you so much for going over this very important topic regarding worship based on Truth (Scripture) due to the trend of repetition/feeling provoking songs in churches in the last years 👍.
Saludos desde Colombia. Gracias por impactar bíblicamente en la verdadera música cristiana y ayudar a tantos ministerios a consolidarse sobre la base sólida de las Escrituras. Lo que cantamos y repetimos nos va afectar, por eso la importancia de que lo que repitamos sean verdades bíblicas que afiancen y afirmen nuestra doctrina y no repetir frases desconectadas o sin sentido. Sigan adelante con estos podcast y con ese ministerio que el Señor les ha dado para gloria Suya y bendición de los que les seguimos
I wholeheartedly agree, though I cannot deny the existence of repetition that is intended to cause heightened affect and even trance state of mind. This is certainly not a biblically sound objective for worship in song. Ever.
Repetition is a substitute for theological depth or even strong narrative songwriting that fleshes out biblical theology that has been subjectively experienced and is being shared as a testimony within song, but nobody seems to care as long as it is a good sonic experience which is equated to "the Spirit moving," yet regardless how we feel, we cannot biblically say that the Spirit moved if we didn't exalt Christ which requires depth, not necessarily at the expense of but certainly not secondarily to repetition. Departure from hymnal singing and psalms recitation in exchange for radio-friendly popcorn praise is very much to blame for this. Hymnwriters used to deliver a whole Bible passage, doctrine, and sermon worth of theology within 3-4 or a few more stanzas, and whether there was a chorus of not, it was still memorable and very emotionally impactful while if not the lyrics then the melodic structure and sequence was repeated, so why stray from that? Maybe it's man-centeredness displayed through repetion in the place of theological depth in lyrics that is our culprit!
Thanks for this good teaching. I have been thinking about the song Yeshua by 2021 Sean Feucht Music and could not listen to it even though the lyrics were good but there was too much repetition and it felt off. I don't know your opinion and I am not sure if I'm judging correctly but for me it feels alarming, also because of connection with Bethel.. 🤔😕 it's also so popular..
My perspective is that the overall problem is not repetition itself, but lazy lyricism. Most Christian songwriters today, especially when it comes to congregational praise, are not aiming to be didactic and doctrinal as they should, but rather aim to be as simplistic, memorable, and inclusive / emotional as possible, so a lot of the phrasing is not even explicitly biblical or if it is, subjective experience comes first and basic biblical truths and phrases are used to support the subjective experience rather than the other way around. Many times the Bible isn't even consulted when many write worship songs, and if it is then it's secondary, yet the Bible forms the foundation for how to worship. Secondly, song structure and impact are oftentimes too dependent on instrumentation and vocals rather than lyrical messaging, so a lot of people don't even pay attention to how biblocally accurate and profound the lyrics are or aren't because they're mainly focused on melodic sound, probably due to the fact that sound has a more immediate and sensational impact on the emotions rather that lyrical information, especially when song verses are just a few basic true but not profound, theological words and phrases and the song just rushes to the chorus that forms the "meat," of the songs because of how much it's repeated. However, choruses like the verses, usually aren't that biblically deep either, so our songs during Sunday service are like a sack lunch rather than a meal, but as long as the repetition and shallowness of the lyrics is being repeated by grest instrumentation and enviable vocal skill, then far to many are fine with just a snack of a setlist. It's truly sad, but there are artists, bands, and worship collectives that are combatting this with their music and for them, I'm grateful.
It's interesting how the Psalms and old hymns from the reformation have next to no repetition. Ever since the Pentecostal movement, repetitive lyrics have crept into many worship songs. We think it sounds good but there is actually a pentacostal theology behind it. Scott Aniol calls it the Pentecostalization of worship music.
#1 importance will always the biblical soundness of the lyrics. Doesn't matter how good the melody is (and I'm very big on that....), if the lyrics are unbiblical, the entire song needs to go in the garbage. Lest we forget in Colossians ch 3, Paul tells us worship songs and hymns are one way believers are taught good doctrine - there is serious ministry involved, in that sense. So....biblical soundness for sure needs to be there. Second point is that I think we forget what worship is going to look like in Heaven. If we read the book of Revelation, we see that there is literal non-stop repetition of certain phrases sung by both the heavenly hosts AND us...."holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come", for example. Repetition is not necessarily a bad thing. What makes repetition not good, is when it's done with an insincere heart. See Matthew ch 6 when Jesus talks about praying or doing other ministry activities merely to be seen by man, and not to worshipfully honour the Lord.
Speaking of repetition, the Christianish peppering of "yes, mmhmm, yes, mmm, yeah..." while another person is talking is a meaningless, vain babbling. Also irritating.
Haha. We think it’s a way of affirming and agreeing with what another person is saying and definitely not limited to Christians. But we’re sorry it irritates you!
@@SovereignGraceMusic You probably can't tell, but that is meant as constructive criticism. I love your podcast, and listen to you all the time, but have often written and erased a similar comment.
@Biblesongs Got it. We’ve noticed the same thing and are trying our best to change our desire to verbally affirm each other! But if you listen to previous podcasts, we hope we're making progress. In any case, thanks for listening to the podcast!
@@bkauflin My pleasure. I have learned so much from Worship Matters, the book, conferences, blog, etc., and it has been foundational in my music ministry philosophy. Thank you for your work.
There was actually a piece that I wrote back in 2013 about repetition which I called 'Cycles.' CYCLES There can be times in our lives when something becomes so uninterestingly repetitive that we almost abhor the time it’s going to start over. Unless you introduce something new to the entire routine, it can get so tedious it drives you to a point where feelings of dread and reluctance take their turns, sometimes even overlap. We all go through it. They just come in different forms. Some are a bit more colorful than others; the rest are black, or white, or gray. Some are bigger and heavier; others don’t encumber. Still, they all reach a point of monotony and blandness. Digging deep and reflecting about it from a different perspective, however, can actually reinvigorate the whole thing. And then it feels fresh again. It seems new again. Then you realize that it’s all part of life. There are things that need to transpire over and over again, like the sun always rising in the morning and setting at day’s end. Like the earth moving around the sun and completing one revolution for 365 days. Like the sun’s nocturnal counterpart doing the same around earth every 27.3 days. Like a butterfly egg turning into a larva to a chrysalis to an imago, until the adult once again lays new eggs. There’s beauty in repetition. There’s knowledge that can be drawn from routine. There’s wisdom in monotony. If there was none of it, then we won’t appreciate variety and variability. God allowed recurrence. During the 6 days He created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, each day ended with the same verse, ‘And there was evening, and there was morning.’ Thank God for the grace of allowing us to appreciate this.
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When I contrast my experience listening to secular music as an unbeliever with listening to those songs again many years later, I am shocked at the lyrics. Pre-conversion I got so caught up with the music I neglected the lyrics. That’s why I’m so glad God saved me and “turned me on” to contemporary Christian music like GLAD where both music and lyrics glorify the Lord. Thank you Bob and David. (Watching from Tanzania)
Thank you brothers for this. I was expecting more of an exposition on the mindless repetition of most modern “worship” songs, but you’ve offered a well rounded perspective.
I serve as a vocalist in my local gathering. We sing and love many Sovereign Grace songs. The first time I heard and sang “Behold Our God” I was deeply moved and couldn’t stop the waterworks. These profound theological truths are powerful and life changing. And yes, the Gospel is enough… over and over and over again. 💞
Thank you brothers," Repetition will ground you in something, either objective truth, or subjective experience" that is really true ,
At 6:45 after David says the Gospel is all we have and need, I immediately started singing "All we Have, Oh All we Neeed, All we want is You!!" Haha thankful for sovereign grace music. Our worship playlist is on *repeat* in our home. Thanks for the helpful podcast!
My biggest takeaway from "Worship Matters" has been read the lyrics to a song first
Thank you so much for going over this very important topic regarding worship based on Truth (Scripture) due to the trend of repetition/feeling provoking songs in churches in the last years 👍.
Thank you for a very balanced primer of understanding “repetition” in worship songs.
Saludos desde Colombia. Gracias por impactar bíblicamente en la verdadera música cristiana y ayudar a tantos ministerios a consolidarse sobre la base sólida de las Escrituras. Lo que cantamos y repetimos nos va afectar, por eso la importancia de que lo que repitamos sean verdades bíblicas que afiancen y afirmen nuestra doctrina y no repetir frases desconectadas o sin sentido. Sigan adelante con estos podcast y con ese ministerio que el Señor les ha dado para gloria Suya y bendición de los que les seguimos
Abrazo grande brothers! Dios les bendiga! Saludos desde Campana, Argentina!
I wholeheartedly agree, though I cannot deny the existence of repetition that is intended to cause heightened affect and even trance state of mind. This is certainly not a biblically sound objective for worship in song. Ever.
Repetition is a substitute for theological depth or even strong narrative songwriting that fleshes out biblical theology that has been subjectively experienced and is being shared as a testimony within song, but nobody seems to care as long as it is a good sonic experience which is equated to "the Spirit moving," yet regardless how we feel, we cannot biblically say that the Spirit moved if we didn't exalt Christ which requires depth, not necessarily at the expense of but certainly not secondarily to repetition. Departure from hymnal singing and psalms recitation in exchange for radio-friendly popcorn praise is very much to blame for this. Hymnwriters used to deliver a whole Bible passage, doctrine, and sermon worth of theology within 3-4 or a few more stanzas, and whether there was a chorus of not, it was still memorable and very emotionally impactful while if not the lyrics then the melodic structure and sequence was repeated, so why stray from that? Maybe it's man-centeredness displayed through repetion in the place of theological depth in lyrics that is our culprit!
Well said! Depth is only fitting when worshipping our high and holy God.
Thanks for this good teaching. I have been thinking about the song Yeshua by 2021 Sean Feucht Music and could not listen to it even though the lyrics were good but there was too much repetition and it felt off. I don't know your opinion and I am not sure if I'm judging correctly but for me it feels alarming, also because of connection with Bethel.. 🤔😕 it's also so popular..
My perspective is that the overall problem is not repetition itself, but lazy lyricism. Most Christian songwriters today, especially when it comes to congregational praise, are not aiming to be didactic and doctrinal as they should, but rather aim to be as simplistic, memorable, and inclusive / emotional as possible, so a lot of the phrasing is not even explicitly biblical or if it is, subjective experience comes first and basic biblical truths and phrases are used to support the subjective experience rather than the other way around. Many times the Bible isn't even consulted when many write worship songs, and if it is then it's secondary, yet the Bible forms the foundation for how to worship.
Secondly, song structure and impact are oftentimes too dependent on instrumentation and vocals rather than lyrical messaging, so a lot of people don't even pay attention to how biblocally accurate and profound the lyrics are or aren't because they're mainly focused on melodic sound, probably due to the fact that sound has a more immediate and sensational impact on the emotions rather that lyrical information, especially when song verses are just a few basic true but not profound, theological words and phrases and the song just rushes to the chorus that forms the "meat," of the songs because of how much it's repeated.
However, choruses like the verses, usually aren't that biblically deep either, so our songs during Sunday service are like a sack lunch rather than a meal, but as long as the repetition and shallowness of the lyrics is being repeated by grest instrumentation and enviable vocal skill, then far to many are fine with just a snack of a setlist. It's truly sad, but there are artists, bands, and worship collectives that are combatting this with their music and for them, I'm grateful.
🔥 agreed
It's interesting how the Psalms and old hymns from the reformation have next to no repetition. Ever since the Pentecostal movement, repetitive lyrics have crept into many worship songs. We think it sounds good but there is actually a pentacostal theology behind it. Scott Aniol calls it the Pentecostalization of worship music.
#1 importance will always the biblical soundness of the lyrics. Doesn't matter how good the melody is (and I'm very big on that....), if the lyrics are unbiblical, the entire song needs to go in the garbage. Lest we forget in Colossians ch 3, Paul tells us worship songs and hymns are one way believers are taught good doctrine - there is serious ministry involved, in that sense. So....biblical soundness for sure needs to be there.
Second point is that I think we forget what worship is going to look like in Heaven. If we read the book of Revelation, we see that there is literal non-stop repetition of certain phrases sung by both the heavenly hosts AND us...."holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come", for example. Repetition is not necessarily a bad thing. What makes repetition not good, is when it's done with an insincere heart. See Matthew ch 6 when Jesus talks about praying or doing other ministry activities merely to be seen by man, and not to worshipfully honour the Lord.
What is the all of A sudden song?
Speaking of repetition, the Christianish peppering of "yes, mmhmm, yes, mmm, yeah..." while another person is talking is a meaningless, vain babbling. Also irritating.
Haha. We think it’s a way of affirming and agreeing with what another person is saying and definitely not limited to Christians. But we’re sorry it irritates you!
@@SovereignGraceMusic You probably can't tell, but that is meant as constructive criticism. I love your podcast, and listen to you all the time, but have often written and erased a similar comment.
Then what ever you do, don't listen to the recent interview between Matt Chandler and LeCrae haha
@Biblesongs Got it. We’ve noticed the same thing and are trying our best to change our desire to verbally affirm each other! But if you listen to previous podcasts, we hope we're making progress. In any case, thanks for listening to the podcast!
@@bkauflin My pleasure. I have learned so much from Worship Matters, the book, conferences, blog, etc., and it has been foundational in my music ministry philosophy. Thank you for your work.
There was actually a piece that I wrote back in 2013 about repetition which I called 'Cycles.'
CYCLES
There can be times in our lives when something becomes so uninterestingly repetitive that we almost abhor the time it’s going to start over. Unless you introduce something new to the entire routine, it can get so tedious it drives you to a point where feelings of dread and reluctance take their turns, sometimes even overlap.
We all go through it. They just come in different forms. Some are a bit more colorful than others; the rest are black, or white, or gray. Some are bigger and heavier; others don’t encumber. Still, they all reach a point of monotony and blandness.
Digging deep and reflecting about it from a different perspective, however, can actually reinvigorate the whole thing. And then it feels fresh again. It seems new again. Then you realize that it’s all part of life.
There are things that need to transpire over and over again, like the sun always rising in the morning and setting at day’s end. Like the earth moving around the sun and completing one revolution for 365 days. Like the sun’s nocturnal counterpart doing the same around earth every 27.3 days. Like a butterfly egg turning into a larva to a chrysalis to an imago, until the adult once again lays new eggs.
There’s beauty in repetition. There’s knowledge that can be drawn from routine. There’s wisdom in monotony. If there was none of it, then we won’t appreciate variety and variability.
God allowed recurrence. During the 6 days He created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, each day ended with the same verse, ‘And there was evening, and there was morning.’
Thank God for the grace of allowing us to appreciate this.