This plug in is actually great. Have used it in compromised locations to mix multiple episodes of a national television show and have also used to mix professional mixes for radio and film. This is not a marketing gimmick it is a seriously good tool. Love the channel by the way, keep up the amazing content. always presented with good humour and intelligence. Just don't always agree.
I just started using this plugin and my mixes translate very well to all playback systems. If you have a great room that you know well, then this is not for you. Most of us mix in crappy small treated rooms that lie to your ears. I can finally hear the low end of my mixes.
+1 It's hard to deny the way it tightens up the low end. It's also really friggen nice to have a reference across the nears/mids/fars and in bypass mode-- my headphones on their own (count 4 distinct references with one headphone setup). Regardless of their accuracy against the "Abbey Road" room, references are references and that's no different than a car stereo, ipad etc etc. I think the setup is both practical and powerful in my tiny home studio space. Finally-- like all gear, its useful if you know how/why you're using it-- there is no audio silver bullet, and anyone looking for that will be jaded upon realizing they probably need to work on developing their ear more than plugin collection.
Elder Orange so would you say it’s worth it I have a studio set up in my small kitchen so I could definitely see where it would be helpful to have different references in a professional sounding studio and I have good speakers I use Yamaha hs8s and my mixes sound pretty good for what I’m working with do you think using this plugin will help me clean them up even more and does it translate into other reference points well I.e. car phone computer?? Just curious on your input
What is completely overlooked here is that this plugin enables you to create 5.1 surround mixes. The whole thing even best with head tracking. And without having to install an expensive 5.1 surround system at home. at least pre-production works wonderfully. If you then still have the opportunity to listen to control again in a real 5.1 surround mix studio and make final adjustments, you have a damn powerful tool to pre-produce surround mixes independently from anywhere - for example for film post-production purposes. That alone is priceless and the plugin is a bargain for what it can do.
Discarding a plugin based on a youtube video is no different than buying one based on a commercial. That said, I have never tried the abbey road studio 3 plugin but I have used waves NX and the NX plugin with my ATH-M50x is standard for my mixing.
@@lespaul2550 I never use the head tracking feature. I always disable it. NX is one plugin that took me time to come around but once I did it became a very useful tool. The only drawback I have found mixing on headphones is that sometimes you'll get it wrong with the sub frequencies. It is a good idea to always check with monitors. I've found a way to judge my lower frequencies using frequency analyzers but I advice to always check with monitors. I've done 5.1 mixes on headphones with NX which translated excellently in the cinema. This is the first mix I did completely on headphones with NX. I had just been robbed and all my equipments stolen. My quick fix was a laptop NX and ATH-M50x headphones. Let me know if you think the mix has drawbacks from using headphones. th-cam.com/video/wBAMmAAhoQs/w-d-xo.html
This is NOT for make your mixes sound better, this is to give you a different reference if you don't have a perfectly treated room. It is up to you and your experience to take advantage or not.
I agree, also "technically" impulse responses can be simulated, as you can with guitar amps, and doesn't matter if you listen on one set of headphones or monitors.. the difference is noticeable. But... that being said... to mix? well, it's all relative. For a pro that has good equipment and knows what he/she is hearing, anything else will not be a good option, but if someone doesn't have a treated room, doesn't have monitors (or they are bad), or their headphones are subpar, this can give a little better experience at least. To mix, you have to get accustomed to the sound of your source (speakers/monitors), so if you going to use this plugin, start working with it, and getting to know it, put everything through it... reference tracks included. And do the test after a month or two. Mix with it, and then check if it translates better than your old mixes. If it does?... great! if not?... oh well! Myself, although I have a set of (cheap but ok) monitors, as I like to work at night, I can't use them so much... so I ended up getting "expensive" headphones which should be great for mixing/mastering (Shure SRH1840). I've got good feedback on my mixes, although they are not perfect, and that has to do with me, and not the equipment ;) But it will have to suffice (the headphones) until I get a place that can be sound-isolated one day.
You are 1 of the only musicians that's not afraid to let the big companies know when they get something wrong. This proves that you are genuine and that you're not just chasing sponsors. Much respect!
We just saw a narcist losing it because he simply can't accept the fact that this plugin substitutes his expensive gear and studio and he actually LOVES it but he is trying to deny it so hard, it makes him so damn angry😅
I think the idea is that you perfect your mix with the plug-in enabled, using your headphones, because you are in your bedroom with untreated walls, then disable the plug-in for the final audio print.
Correct... the NX instructions state to use one instance on the master buss to sim the desired room during mixing, then disable the plugin during the final stereo bounce.
So, I want to point out that you can create an inverse filter response. This is literally how crosstalk reduction is performed on your cellphone and smart home devices. However, properly matching your true HRTF is difficult and will lead to issues ,but it is very close to the best we can get. The main thing limiting an inverse is the slew rate of the headphones compared to the speaker you wan to model. So, he is actually incorrect.
Taking a moment to add an additional comment here after having used this plugin for a bit, and experiencing mixing both with and without for periods of time. In short, this is easily, easily worth the $99 to me. Does it replace my main/real speakers and room? Of course not, and it's not meant to. What it does is provide another 3 sets of speakers in a different room (via emulation through my headphones) on which to check my mixes. Twice now, I felt lost figuring out the low end to a particular mix I'm working on and this plug-in provided immediate help. The mid-field speakers in particular highlighted the main issue with my mix, and I was able to make a couple quick tweaks and lo and behold, problem solved. I'm finding that if it sounds good in my room on my speakers and also in the three emulated speaker systems, it can be relied upon to translate.I personally wouldn't want to spend all or even most of my time listening to the emulation, but for periodic checks it's fantastic. I would also happily use it in a situation where I'm forced to use headphones. So, for those of you that actually understand the purpose of this plug-in, big advantages may be had. For those who don't bother to even try to understand and/or just want to make up pseudo-scientific nonsense (impulse responses are manipulated via DSP all the time these days, and we have different drivers/diaphragms all over the place in the recording/playback chain) to justify a truly mystifying take on the whole thing, you're missing out. By the way, this is the only Waves plug-in I've purchased in ages. I used the demo until the license ran out, then did without for a couple weeks. Really missed being able to check things against the emulated room/speakers, so made the purchase. Again, well worth it, in my opinion. If you're already cranking out mixes that translate well everywhere, then you don't need this. If you're like most of us, this tool may be useful to you.
Yeah, just picked it up for $50 on sale. Definitely worth it as an emulator check and when cranking the room monitors is impossible. Disregarding the head tracking gimmick - this plugin is worth it on special
The head tracking thing is my favorite part. Without it, we're just getting the EQ of the room... which is great, sure, and sometimes I work like that. With the head tracking though, we're literally in the room. In fact, the first time I tried this plugin out with the head tracking, I was convinced that I had actually turned my real speakers on at 3:00 a.m. at high volume. I panicked, threw my headphones off, and reached for the speaker volume control. One thing I like to do is spin the speaker location around so they're behind me. It really helps create the sense of depth for the "far" speaker emulation.... since I'm actually physically working close to a wall, and there's physically a lot more space behind me. Listening to a mix like this adds a valuable perspective I think. Of course, you can do this without the head tracking device too. But it works great because I just spin my head around and listen facing the speakers, and then just spin back and they're automatically behind me again. You really sense depth this way.
Just bought it. I usually agree with this guy on most plugins. But unfortunately not this one. This plugin is helpful, at least to me. I don't like Waves as a company and all the insane (boderline fraudulent, yet not technically fraudulent) marketing they do but few of their plugins are actually worth it. Tried it on my headphones and it does give me a better take on mixing. Not sure if it translates that well to actual monitors but on headphones, for now, they are worth the buck.
I might call it excessive marketing, and fake "deals"... but seems like most marketing is all about the deal anyway.... I actually think Waves is great. Especially now with reasonably priced plugins, they're staying competitive. Years ago, with all them crazy prices? No, it just wasn't worth it... because honestly, you can make great music with stock plugins and a bit of carefully chosen saturation if you know what you're doing... and if you, of course, work with great musicians. Waves does have super helpful tech support, which is super important to me.
You may not hear the detail because that is what this plugin is pointing out. The point of it is to hear what is lacking in the mix because of the superior environment, treatment and speaker quality. What you may feel is detailed, may not be when held up to that environment, which as far as I can recall has had a world renowned reputation for churning out top quality.
Exactly what I thought. The purpose was NOT to even use it on your mixes but to compare your mix to a world renowned facility. Then ask yourself "what is better about their facility?"
This plug-in is pointless if you already have a professional studio, but if you live in a shared house and only work on headphones like I do, and it's great to have a different reference - and it has really helped my mixes improve
Very funny. Good job. Two comments I'd like to make. First, using no EQ function by not choosing a headphone emulation is not the same as leaving it neutral to more closely emulate the buds you are accustomed to. In fact, without knowing the base eq profile, you are in fact very likely getting something that is further from what you are used to with your earbuds, than if you made the closest selection available. Second, maybe I misunderstood what you are saying about transient and impulse response emulation; but from an audio theory standpoint, you can in fact create transfer functions to emulate a differential impulse and transient response profile using active DSP or ITB related emulated processing.
Don't agree. Well this is a good reference. For many people, they don't have a good monitor system all the time but the headphone is quite convinient and cheap. The biggest problem for headphone mixing is that good mix in headphones may not translate well on monitors. It has nothing to do with the quality of headphones but the headphones themselves. To be more specific, Using monitors your left ears can hear the sound of the right channel. It's a diffuse playback system, you can hear direct sound, early reflections, reverbs. For headphones your left ear can only hear the sound of left channel. A good mix must be tested in difference playback system such as car testing, monitors, headphones. So with this tech, a talented musician with a laptop and a headphone can produce great music and mixes, not only well on headphone systems but also translate well on monitors. This is the technology I want or many other musicians who travel a lot want. A plugin that can reference your track in great abbey road studio 3 playback systems wherever you are in real world. What is technology for? Making better mix is important. But making the music production process more convinient and cheaper may be more meaningful to some people.
I get what you are saying in so far, as one of the biggest problems of using headphones is the distance between the sound source and your ears. While you might be able to hear many frequency issues etc. perfectly, many things might not translate at all unto normal listening environments, like homes, clubs, or even your own studio. Because headphones will not let you witness, how your sound is affecting the surroundings of a "normal" sound source, like a pair of monitors. So this plug is probably trying to insert all the natural "imperfections" and sonic reactions you get, when a sound source is not placed in such proximity of your ears. Things like the sonic "activation" of a room, reverb, early reflections, etc., while trying to eq and filter the sound of your headphones, in order to eliminate it's deficiencies, and then adding some coloring to make it sound like the AR system. Problem is though, that, as stated in the video, first you will have to have a pair of great headphones, that will cost a considerable amount of money, for the resolution and transient response to be good enough, so that it can in any way try to emulate the sound in a professional studio with a really good sound system. So given you have those, if this plug-in really takes all the room nodes etc. into consideration, a plug with different emulations of listening environments might be a nice additional feature to double check your mixes quickly in a studio-like situation, when you haven't good the time to really take it on the road and listen to it on various actual systems. But with Abbey Road, we are talking about a highly treated room with super expensive custom built monitors, so even a pair of 2000€ headphones will only be able to give you a moderate approximation of the sonic behavior of your material in the room. Look at it this way, as a simplistic explanation: if you want to run a realistic emulation of any operation system, or video game console os on another machine, that machine's processing power has to be a lot higher, than required by the os on the original machine, as it is trying to emulate the whole machine, plus processing the programm, or game you actually wanted to use to start with. So in our case, no EQing, filtering, 3D processing, added reflections, or whatever, can turn your headphones into a super expensive studio listening setup, because the headphone's sonic qualities would have to best these setups own qualities, in order to emulate it properly. For a consumer, it might give you the feeling of being in a room and it might try to "better" the sound, but all only within the limitations of the headphone's given sound possibilities. Transient response can not get quicker and better than what your phones are built for. And a small speaker inside, or close to your ear (so a headphone) might be able to make you hear lower frequencies etc. but it cannot move the amount of air, or create the vibrations in the room and the listeners body, like a big monitoring system does. etc. And that is an integral part of what makes it great to mix on those systems. That's physics. The next problem is, let's say you have invested in a pair of great headphones, in addition to heaving a well treated room with good monitors. If you manage to get an ok approximation of the Abbey Road studio sound on them, it will still sound very different from your own room. And while you will know the quirks of your room and monitors by heart, and can therefore rely on how your mixes will translate unto other environments, you will have to learn from scratch, how this virtual room behaves additionally. It is basically the same as working in an approximation of a studio you normally don't work in. And if this is only being used to check how a mix translates unto another system, and you can't be a 100% sure still, cause you are actually coloring the sound with a virtual Abbey Road mambo jumbo, that might not be responding the way it should on your headphones, this doesn't make any sense.
@@sergioflores5565 Of course. I'm not saying that this plugin is good enough to replace monitors. If a good monitor playback system is available then there's no necessity to use this plugin. But, it can making the sound check more available and convinient in cirtain occations. The simulation can't be perfect but it's good enough. For example, a Audio technica M50X is cheap with super low distortion as good as the expensive ones. For the frequency response problem, I think this plugin would fix the problem with internal eq. After all this is just a 99$ plugin that allows producers to have something to refer to, you can't be too hard on a small plugin. The plugin won't affect the sound quality because I think no one would be stupid enough to turn the plugin on when printing the mix. Maybe with this plugin there will be a new Avicii or some super talented kid in the dormitory of a university that produce a track as good as fxxk
@@chengzhidai3995 The biggest issue of them all... How do people today listen seriously to music? Through headphones! What it will sound like in a car, from TV speakers, or some mono network speaker, in a club or at a festival should never be the reference. When people mostly listened through the best hifi-system they could afford, well then it might have made sense using speakers in a room as the ultimate reference. If it was a plugin to master print on the master, it would actually make more sense than it does right now. As one of several of ways to test a mix, it might make sense, but that specific room, and such a well treated room, is hardly the best way to test how mixes translates. This plugin is sold on how one would make better mixing choices. Mixing for speakers when most people will listen through headphones, doesn't seem like the best start. Adding compression, reverberation, EQ and could work, if those balances the personal taste of that user, in relation to "mainstream", but that would be a coincidence. Otherwise, it is like adding a nice multi effects rack on the monitoring system, and all that it added will be removed, if not printed. Frequency correction of headphones, could be useful, but that isn't the main purpose of this software, and it actually further colors the sound, there are other software that attempts to correct the frequencies. Avicii's talent did not come from sitting in a very expensive, particular studio. Even though he had access to some quite nice ones at the end. But he used headphones a lot. The stereo imaging on his tracks, isn't even made in such a way that hearing them like if with speakers is that important. Where this plugin would make most sense, is in the listening device that a person uses for listening with headphones, running on top of the music playback software. I'm not sure how one can route audio in iOS, if it would be possible to route Spotify/Apple Music/TH-cam (as well as other audio players) through a signal chain with a plugin running... And then they would have to do the iOS version of the plugin. If I could to that, then I would seriously consider getting an iOS device, and this software (plus other necessary software), just for music playback. For studiowork, this is mostly a gimmick, at least by how it is marketed.
I have a completely different experience. I have Sennheiser 800S headphones and Sonarworks. Pretty close to my ideal spot in my corrected room but with the headphones and Sonarworks (for headphones) I still couldn’t get the bass level right and this is reflected in the difference I hear between speakers (Yamaha HS8 and HS8S sub) and headphones. Adding this Waves plugin along with Sonarworks gets me to where I cannot tell the difference between my ideal spot with monitors compared to my headphones with Sonarworks and this new Waves plugin. I don’t care whether it sounds like Abbey Road Studios or not, but with all my stuff it makes for a much better experience than without it. So in this rare case I respectfully disagree. Enjoyed your passion in the video and can’t wait for your next one!
I got the hs8 and had the exact same experience. I'm running some dt1990s while mixing in some sonarworks into abbey studio 3. With the tracking on it really did make me think I forgot to switch from monitors to headphones when I pressed play in a knee jerk reaction sense. I think they have done a fantastic job. I found the near, mid and far speakers have been very helpful for mixing too, especially for bass..
You’re the only TH-camr I trust anymore for honest opinions and a realistic approach. Everyone else seems to be getting paid off or succumbing to popular opinions and trends. Just a side note, I feel that there is a suckfest around Kali monitors and believe every “review” on them is total horse shit. I would like to see an honest review from you about these and hopefully call out their bullshit marketing hype. I highly doubt these stupid LP-6 monitors are better than standard car speakers, but every single person on TH-cam is acting like they’re the most breakthrough innovation that’s ever happened. Frankly I’m not even interested in the monitors because they’re not in the professional league, but I always enjoy when shitty products with a misleading marketing campaign are exposed for what they are.
So one (potentially) good thing about this software: if you only own crappy headphones, and several kinds of crappy headphones, this software will make audio sound more consistent between your crappy headphones by colouring it in the same way (assuming your headphones are not crappy enough to colour any audio you pass through them in a really crappy way anyway)...
I agree that the marketing is wrong but here is the deal. When I have to record on headphones (night time... neighbors, small children, ect...) this helps me get an initial mix that is not shockingly different when I play it back on my monitors later. I would never do a final mix on this software but it's great to not feel like what I created in my headphones is irreconcilably different from what I get back in my monitors.
I use this plugin with headphones by Orange amplifiers and do comparative listens with Bose and then shit earbuds just to listen for different details. Of course, the better the headphones, the better the mix, but anyone who thinks they are gonna get a killer pro track with ear buds is fooling themselves. This comes in handy when I have to work late into the night for comping and setting my reverbs and delay levels properly. It also comes in handy when my wife needs to sleep and I need to work **smiles**. I have gotten some great midnight mixes out of this, that hold their own on real monitors as well as every other speaker I listen on. I am not the greatest engineer, but this has definitely helped me while I was learning. Its actually not bad and I wish this was around when I had a home apartment studio, where I wasn't really allowed and couldn't really afford to do a proper sound treatment in my living room with dogs barking and neighbors stomping on the ceiling. Of course, it is never going to compare to the experience of being in Abbey Road studio...it's just designed around it. I have the head tracker too. I say, give it a go mate and just see what it's like start to finish and do a comparative mix. my 2 cents **wink**
I think you're totally missing the point here. I gave it a try and recorded a brand new song...drums, guitars,vox ...etc... Usually, i would give it a listen in the car after first mix and had to make a few adjustments. This time(using studio 3) i was happy with the mix after first shot....just like what they said: It translates perfectly from system to system. And i also have a decent setup with a couple of headphones(shure404 and audiotechnica ath-m50), near-field monitors(rokit), far field 2,5kw through my 8kw stage amp(2x10", 4x12",4xhorns and 18" sub) and a decent mid field old school sony amp with nice vintage yamaha speakers) Sounds pretty much the same as their studio 3 emulation. And the one thing i got from it, was: i could compare my room sound to their emulation and have a decent reference. totally worth the money. And on your rant about speaker response: its all about frequency response and even the crapy headphones have a frequency response higher than your ear and better than 24bit 41k. -yeah, it's not for everyone(obviously /\ ) but i can totally see it being a useful tool for mixing on the go, on a laptop or for another reference point for your own room. After you're done you just click it off or remove from chain(pretty important step of the process:)
A track wont magically sound better, everywhere, because of the use of a simulation plugin. Either you have an issue in your monitoring situation that causes you to make the wrong decisions. Or it was just a coincidence. Every room, every audio system has its own issues, there is no mix that fits all situations. If you end up having to fix your mixes after listening in your car. Then you might have issues with the sound in your car, and your specific car might not be the best source of reference for everyone else. Or you have issues with your monitoring system that makes you tweak levels of certain frequency bands, so they cause issues on other systems than your main monitoring system (this could either be because of the frequency response through your monitoring system, or that your personal taste is to mix certain frequencies in a way that your monitoring system can handle, but other systems might not). If this plugin had emulations of a lot of rooms and a lot of speakers and it was about picking up on issues that others might experience, then that would make sense. Or if all it did was to introduce the channel crosstalk experience while listening on speakers to ones headphones (then it could also be used as a master FX to make mixes for headphone users). But it isn't, it is about selling the dream of sitting in a studio space that is very expensive to rent. And unless one is lucky with circumstances in a way that it perfectly compensates for the issues of ones personal monitoring system, it won't make mixes sound better.
@@TheJonHolstein I agree....not for everyone. If you got some scientists to treat your room and tons of money, I'm absolutely sure you don't need it. But for less $$ than a evening out in a bar, another reference point is not bad at all. Anything else for listening to your mixes is way more expensive. And as far as I know after you're done, mixes should sound good on any system....from cheap little transistors on the beach, different cars (including my ex cop car) to kick ass stage sound systems. I am no expert but I've been doin this as a hobby for over 20yrs. From my early teens. And I don't care what kinda "trick$" people use to make it, if it does the trick I like it. ... actually, I think you could make a release for headphones only, with this plugin, it just wouldn't sound the best on speakers. In fact, I'd love a plugin like that on my phone for listening with headphones. -i am not affiliated with waves in any way, just not a big fan of problem seeking generation. Options in my eyes have always been great...I wouldn't down talk any option ever, coz I'm sure it fits someone 😉.
It would have been great if you would have mixed part of a song with it that has drums bass instead of just keys. Also, I haven't tried this plugin, but the I've used the waves NX plugin, since I don't have a tuned room, it helped me get a better perspective on my bottom end which jumps around my walls. W the NX plug it pushes the music back as if you are listening in a room at a distance, so you can hear the collective sound of all the instruments. So you are supposed to lose details bcz every day music loves don't listen to music on hi end headphones or studio speakers placed perfectly in the stereo field. I use NX as another means to check my mix. It sounds murky imperfect and helps with ear fatigue when spending much time on headphones.
It’s good to see an alternative point of review that’s honest instead of being fed on how good a plug-in is by so called industry professionals, when in effect the plugin is just a waste of money
The thing is that there are people that can make a good mix on headphones, without any plugin of room emulations. If you know what you are doing, you can.
This plugin is for people who are used to mixing in a mix room but for some reason need to mix on headphones. Headphones DO NOT represent the stereo field accurately. This plugin is supposed to fix that when you need to mix on headphones. Its not supposed to make shit sound good. Its supposed to give you an accurate representation of whats there since headphones don't. If you buy nice studio monitors, it means nothing unless your rooms treated. A studio monitors purpose is to give you an accurate representation of whats there sonically. What happens if you need to mix but you're on the road and limited to headphones and laptop? You could make it happen. But you could do a better job if you were mixing based on an accurate representation of what it sounds like in a room. Not trying to beat a dead horse. But i dont think its a marketing stunt for bedroom producers. Wouldn't do much for them. They're not used to nice monitors in a well treated room. This plugin is genius. And if I'm ever mixing on headphones away from my studio, this would be great to have!
People just NEED to listen to and learn their freaking headphones, if they NEED to mix on laptop and headphones. Does YOUR room sound the same as Studio 3? Let me tell you something, it doesn't. You won't be able to mix precise with this.
I think this thing has it uses. Not as a mastering tool, but as what is it: A simulation of an old studio room. Lots of folks are working with laptops and in-ears nearly everywhere they go. I guess it's a plugin that could help them to mix better. With headphones the stereo-basis and bass response is your biggest problem and I think this plugin could help those guys. I don't think it is a replacement for good speakers but it IS better then no real speakers in my opinion. - Time will tell, if laptop producers are picking that plugin up and making better mixes or not.
The whole point of the NX Suite is to use it with the *NX bluetooth head tracker*. With this, it's like VR for your ears: Really useful for mixing on headphones. Without, it just sounds like a crappy filter. I'd love to see a review using the actual hardware as intended.
If Waves messed up here - it was in failing to be explicit that this plugin is useless without the head tracker. It's borderline useless with the camera tracker!
I have to ask as I have used it and done a brilliant mix down. You have reviewed this saying it wouldn’t work correct? Did you personally do a full stem mix down using it and then review your work after? Cos to me you just played the some music then gave your response Kind of like describe how it feels to drive a sports car without even starting the engine.
Thank you! I think in the same way. It is about the ''soundcolor''. I mix myself with HD800S for Mastering with and without the plugin and it is easier to decide what's wrong with the bass for e.g. when turned on because headphone are not capable of reproducing bass in a room with speaker emulation.
@@rt-uh6mt Find a paid studio with relatively good acoustics or spent hundreds on fixing up a room for decent-sounding acoustics which could never live up to a professional studio like ARS3.
b. t. This really is a void point if you apply this to production in every way. Why use a VST? Learn guitar Why get KorgM1 plugin? Buy the real thing Why play Fifa? Go and play outside in a team.
What’s your point b. t. ? Why work for a living ...build a meth lab instead of a studio...lots of money and success in that...wow we can go all week with this one!!!
You’re yelling about the inaccuracy but the real test would be mixing a session using the plugin compared with not using it. Your argument is about a lack of precision but the primary goal was creating a center image, cross-talk differentiation and life-like bass response.
Tyler Rifley Music hahah I watch his vids. His opinions are just that, opinions. But I appreciate his attention to detail. But detail isn’t the goal here. Big picture is the goal with this plug in. Make the details we pick apart on headphones matter less (cuz they truly matter less)
I was going to do this. My idea was to mix the same song using Sonarworks Reference 4 and This waves plugin and let people choose which one sounds better. Unfortunately the support for headphones from waves is so slim that I don't own any of the supported headphones. I actually do the first Videos on TH-cam using the Sonarworks Studio Reference standard. This means that if you use reference 4 as well then you should hear almost the exact same thing I'm hearing giving people the most transparent listening experience on TH-cam ever. I just started my channel based on this model so I don't have many videos yet but I do atleast one a week so check it out if you're interested. I'm not as fancy as some of these other guys but if true sound is what you seek then you may like what I do.
Gernot Hassknecht I understand the complaint. Different drivers and materials produce the dynamics of frequencies in different ways. It’s impossible to incorporate that but doesn’t make the function of the plugin useless.
I feel like it's more for an alternate reference. Obviously it's not going to sound exactly the same, but if you can turn it on and what you're doing is compatible with it, along with your dry headphone signal and your monitors you're probably on the right track. If anything I think it's acceptable tool to just flip on and double check compatibilities. Generally I feel like it is good to have multiple sources, because one thing will be telling you something the other isn't.
Your rant was very amusing LOL. But on the serious side, I think you missed the whole point of the technology. Sometimes we are forced to mix OUTSIDE of our own control room. For example, how do you generate a client mix when you're attending Summer NAMM?! We can't carry Genelecs on the plane and the hotel guests and staff won't let us mix at volume at 2:20pm. So, mostly, we have to use headphones. Try getting a very good mix using headphones with sound being direct injected into each ear. Good luck with judging how well your M/S processing is working and good luck maintaining a good center in a complex automated mix. The plugin is actually a VERY GOOD IDEA since it solves the center imaging issue of headphones AND it provides THREE sets of "speakers" to audition your mix. I suggest you mix on headphones, audition that mix on several systems (to check how well your mix transfers) and THEN do the same with this plugin. I believe you will find it helps you get a better mix.
Using Ref tracks is a given. The issue comes down to the anomalies that using only headphones bring. Stereo imaging can be way off... I'm using Sonarworks Pro now and that seems to help a lot. But then, what do you do for various speaker sets (when you've taken a taxi or Uber from the airport and don't have your car for listening)? @@mindstuff417
@@sijel Had it been a general plugin, for checking mixes, sure, and AR3 was an add on, like buying patches. But an emulation of that room, only that room, it is severely limited. I would have loved to have it as a plugin on my phone to listen to music trough when using headphones, for that I think it would be great. As a mix checker, sold with the dream of hearing mixes in AR3, it is more marketing than serious at being a useful tool.
ARS3 is okay to evaluate bass,mid`s and treble frequencies in a mix, especially when the preset-reference headphones are used. In order to be able to assess an entire mix in terms of its depth-transparency (wide stereo ranges and "far away" centered events), it is not so quite suitable, because the aural-room sounds a bit too mid/center-heavy (especially in near field). When you know how to deal the plugin, it`s helpful then, but if you are unsure about the mixing, the "coloring" sound of the room will be irritating for sure because it only gives you a kind of "different hearing impression/color". Of course, the plugin does not replace the need to know your headphones (especially the weaknesses). Otherwise you are faced with the same problems and questions with ARS3, too ;-)
I think the only way to judge this plugin would be to create a mix on headphones and then remix it from scratch on a different day with speakers and compare.
Please do a mix completely with this Plugin and then do the same mix on headphones without the Plugin or on speakers and let the viewers decide wich mix sounds better;)
I don't see the point. It is one thing, if the plugin, was designed to correct the frequency response by actually compensating for individual hearing (in relation to the headphones). Or if they managed somehow to actually perfectly simulate the crosstalk of listening to speakers while on headphones. (that could also make for a good mastering plugin, for people that want to distribute music with a headphone adopted mix, and that would make sense today when music is mostly heard on heaphones) But the effect of a plugin like this, is like putting an EQ and reverb effect in the signal chain, after the DAW but before the sound reaches the ears. It could impact the mixes in a way so that some people will prefer that mix. A plugin that is supposed to be like that, and marketed as such could make some sense. If the user knows that, it will color the sound to your personal taste, but leave the mix better suited for others, if they know there is something they can't help themselves from overdoing.
If you have the HD650 headphone, you can choose the HD600 range. It's better to choose a brand if poss, but there are not enough options for that. But then, we can't expect them to model each headphone. You can do mix on headphones, but it will always have a problem of not translating to a ''normal stereo image.'' However, almost everyone has gotten used to listening on headphones and we accept the stereo image, yet it isn't as intended. When you mix with monitors, your left ear doesn't just hear data from the left speaker. It picks up the reflections as you said and date from the right monitor. You are meant to TURN OFF the Abbey Rd 3 when exporting. There is no way Waves have tried to fool you into thinking they have modelled your headphones to sound like their monitors. It is an approximation to guide you into a mix, when it proves almost impossible to mix in the environment you are in. I use Abbey Rd 3 rarely in the evening if I want to get a mix in a ball park way. I never use the Head-Tracking, because I don't want a simulation of my head moving. I want a simulation of my head being in the right place 100% of the time. Also, it's less processing for the computer. Many people edit in very poor environments, and that's why this type of thing is useful. The thing I like about Waves is that you can try them out and see if you think it's snake oil or not. But it is impossible to get a true studio stereo image on headphones. Nothing wrong with mixing like that if it suites a person/client and if you trust your headphones. That was a good start to the video - that you do trust your ear plugs. Thanks.
Warren Huart just did a shootout by actually going to the Abby Road control room and A/B’d between the real room and the plugin. It is posted on his channel Produce Like a Pro. He liked it a lot and finds it quite useful for someone mixing on the go who might work in one studio for a bit then continue working with your laptop on a plane. I don’t think one listen through headphones gives you a good objective view of its capabilities.
For that, they should do a product, where one can sample the specific characteristics of the studio one is using, not one that is made for just 1 studio in the world.
You need to assign the headphones your using in the drop down menu on the right..It's a very cool tool. Warren at Recording like a Pro loves this pluggins..
H-Delay and their dbx160 are the only *waves* plugs i still use. I like their other plugs but don't like to rely on them, mainly due to their upgrade system, - and the fact that i personally find quite a few of their plugs give me ear-fatigue. - like chewing gum, they soon lose their flavour...
Yes! I have a lot of Waves and I still use H-Delay once in awhile. The others I have (PuigChild, CLA-LA, Abbey Road TG, H-everything...) sound great on a single track but a whole mix OD's on them every time.
Ik moet je wel gelijk geven met deze video. Ik heb veel Wave plug-ins gekocht voordat ik jou channel had ontdekt echter sinds ik de Fabfilter Pro serie heb gekocht gebruik ik ze amper meer. Ik zou wel eens een video willen zien over wel of geen limiters gebruiken en wat voor een effect heeft het gebruik van een limiter op de dynamiek volgens jou visie. Ik ben geen mixing engineer maar wel een muziek gek en houd van goede kwaliteit. Dit was weer een prima video Wytze!😎👍👊
Not sure if I agree with all of this. If you always want the most detail and accuracy, then why not always mix with headphones? Great headphones are a lot more accurate and detailed than a well treated room with great speakers, and a heck of a lot cheaper. There's a reason most producers and mixing engineers prefer to mix in a great room instead of headphones, and this plugin aims to make this experience more accessible for people without such a room. Not sure if it's successful at that though, I haven't tried it yet.
The stereo-imaging differs with headphones compared to speakers (due to channels cross-talk when the audio reaches ones ear from speakers and reflection in a room). But today when most people will actually listen on headphones, it would be better to mix with headphones... Or perhaps, rather have the opposite of this plugin, something that attempts to make speakers sound like headphones (impossible though). There are many reasons why one might not want to wear headphones while mixing. Comfort. (heat, weight and for some isolating properties that may feel claustrophobic). Hindrance to move freely (moving around in a room while mixing on speakers, though means that one has to reference the sound all over from the reference point, otherwise there will be balance issues due to proximity issues, an issue that one would not have with headphones as they will sound the same, no matter how much one moves in space) Talking to mixing partners. Even greater risk of damaging ones hearing. And more that I can't think of at this moment.
I will by it when it goes on sale for $29 dollars. Until then I will continue to mix from my speakers an continue to get adjusted to my room. The most important thing is to take care of your ears!!!!
"...you wanna have the purest signal to your head..." NOPE, I disagree! As soon as you're mixing with any monitors in any room (which is the usual way of mixing), the purity is gone. Sure, if you're mixing on headphones you've got that direct injection in your ears and your mixes will probably translate well to other headphones. But as soon as you want to translate to non-optimal-listening-environments (that's every room, be it a living room or a car) you have to judge your mixes in a room you know well on speakers you know well. In this point I absolutely agree with you! Can I mix solely on headphones, be it with or whithout AR Studio 3? No! Is it a good additional tool for judging mixies in a different environment other than my imperfect home studio? Of course it is!
As an additional tool for auditioning mixes in another room with other speakers, well, then it is very limited. Just a highly treated room, with expensive equipment. Unless you are mixing your music only for people listening in expensive studios, it makes little sense. Stereo-Speaker-Crosstalk emulation for, could be a great tool, for rough stereo-image mixes with headphones. But that is not all it does. And the rest makes little sense. Besides, today, most people do serious music listening on headphones, so why the focus on mixing for speakers. The best use I can think of for this software is as a tool for listening to music through, when on headphones.
I am in no way a Waves advocate. I have a few of their plug in's and find them useful. I downloaded the demo for Studio 3 and thought it was a very useful tool. I am considering buying it. I did a few tests of my own with a very open mind and was very pleased with the results. I've seen a few of your videos in the past, but have decided to avoid your videos now in the future based on your closed mindset. This is an awesome tool for a person who has no access to monitors or a "proper studio." It seemed at times that you were going into a TH-cam channel host persona at times during your video, which is understandable but also a turn off to me when it comes to testing new technology. I'm sure Waves put a lot of research into this product and it is far from perfect. It is easy for you to just make a video in hopes that people will watch it and earn you subscribers. Kudos to those with an open mind to new ideas.
I recommend getting the bluetooth tracker. It makes it scarily good to the point you forget you're listening to headphones. Having custom calibrated headphones from Sonarworks and this plugin lets me mix on the road and they hold up when I get home to my Barefoots.
Abbey Road Studio 3 is aimed at the home amateur producer who tries it, hears something different, thinks 'different is better' and then relies on the plugin to solve his issues. Like every compressor is better when it sounds louder, and every eq plugin is better because as soon as you turn a knob you hear a change and think 'yeah I want change'. I love you for exposing them. I mix on headphones (blame the neighbours). When I finish a mix I play it on 3 different speaker systems, then I always have to go back and change some choices. Then on the different speakers again and hey, that's not too bad at all. If I put Abbey Road Studio 3 somewhere in there, I am screwed. I tried it, like you did, and if there is a hell for plugins, this one ends just there. Burning, whiplashed, thrashed, maimed and in general laughed out of the room. Waves should be ashamed. They have excellent plugins, that really help people make better mixes. CLA2A, Puigtec, VComp, the renaissance ones, H-reverb... like them or not, if you use them well you get better sounding stuff. But this one just tricks people into believing they make better mixes. booo hissss
I have spent about 40 hours doing remixes using trial version of this plug in for the entire week, and my conclusion is that it is a helpful ‘tool’ for checking your mixes, although the marketing gimmick is kinda stupid. What this plug in does is make badly mixed songs sound absolutely horrible to the unbearable level, while good mixes sound decent on any of its near/mid/far options. Ignore the whole thing about ‘being in the control room’, but think of it as a tool that lets you check your mixes in different settings, for reference. It is a bit of a snake oil marketing ploy, which I don’t like either, but seriously, download the trial version and run your mixes through them. This plug in is not designed to make things sound pleasant, but it provides very good check points, and a mix that sounds decent through this plug in translates very well to other real speakers/headphones/earphones etc.
Thanks for the comment, i really dislike waves and their marketing ploys but i feel like this video wasn't a proper review and completely missed the point.
I like how it sounds... it could be fun idea to add it to the master right before mastering chain. If it doesnt cause any issues. I like to do theoretically stupid decisions to like that to add a bit of spice to the mix.... Id say not worth the money tho
I`m testing this plugin since 5 days and personally really began to love it. I really love making beats at night (and mix them at the same time) and because of my homestudio situation/neighbours I can`t work on monitors after 10 pm. I`m working a lot on my AKG K141mk2 headphones (maybe not the best for producing, rather a good reference headphone) and regularly made such big mistakes with them, especially in the drums and bass/808 area. Often it took me very long, to fix them, change sounds etc. on monitors then the next days, what is pretty frustrating, because I currently don`t have a real studio. But with this new plugin, it became way more easy, especially my sound selection is way better. I made a complete new beat with mix and master to test this plugin and it personally really fascinates me, especially the 3 different monitor settings. In my opionion waves did a really good job with this, even the "NX", they brought out before, was nice.
Hey man! Since switching from Pro Tools to Logic I've really been missing the LoFi plugin that Pro Tools comes with and have been unable to find an alternative. I'm referring to the distortion and saturation that the plugin offers. I'd love to see a video where you analyze what it's actually doing using Plugindoctor and all that jazz, to hopefully get one step closer to finding an alternative.
@@damienlewis7882 Yeah, that's the closest thing I've been able to find. The distortion sounds very similar, but I'm mostly after the saturation and sadly it doesn't really seem to catch the sound of the LoFi saturation. It still might be useful for similar tasks, so I might buy it in the future and try it out for myself. :)
Ironically, YT played a WAVES/AR3 ad to intro your video. "Mix like you are in Abbey Road Studio 3 on your Designed-in-California-USA (built elsewhere) laptop with Bang & Olufsen audio and Klipsch speakers, while streaming to your fans via the built-in webcam with Zeiss optics as you jam on your Fender Strat Squier plugged into your Marshall mini-fridge. And the little green leaf shows the world you are earth-friendly, as it is powered by 100% recycled electrons." (Is this product the very definition of brand sellout?)
I kind of agree with you as they seem to be going down the "emulation" road by packaging a glorified impulse response with this. They would be much better creating a room correction plug-in which allows you then to audition your room in different environments than force-feeding it into a state of the art of mix room.
Dunde bunyaadi, even four years ago room correction plugins abounded. AND - if you spend a certain amount of money on monitors (which is an area I don't believe can be skimped on and yeah, you have to spend some money)...point is expensive monitors have their own room correction capabilities built-in, actual physical controls, I don't mean software corrections The German company that built mine (no need to mention their name) is so high and mighty they say "don't adjust unless you know what you're doing."
I totally agree. You are correct. “Snake oil!There’s a lot of Audio software out that is a total waste of money. I wish we all lived in a world where the Quality of things is not determined by the price.
I own the waves nx plugin and it has these headphone profiles, too. But the big problem with it and also the plugin in this video is, that there are just a few headphone models supported. They don't support beyerdynamic 770 Pro, which are really widely used. I'm a bit confused to see that they still support so few headphones in this brand new plugin, which is made to use with headphones. Nice video by the way 😁 greets from Germany
Ive been working with sonar works, and they have about every headphone, and hate to admit this, but yes it creates a damned Good center stage. when i take phones off its IDENTICLE to what is pulsating through mi monitors. focus rite had in their plugg in collective a while back. this has been a useful tool for me, esp when decibals, Neighbors are a factor for some
Waves, a company that sells new plugins for less than $50, is now “all about money.” Their prices are literally 1/10th of what they were 15 years ago when you claim they were more about quality than money. I’m not a Waves fanboy, but this rant, especially coming without an A/B mix test, seems to be more about views than quality. I highly doubt that Abbey Road would put their name on it if it was not useful let alone bad or if it failed at trying to do something impossible.
The constant sales are just the initial bait for buying upgrades and upgrade plan. How about buying the plugin for full price (199-250) and getting life time upgrades? NAAAH! Pay 30 for the plugin and 100 every. single. year. after.
Definitely, I have the studio edition of Reference 4 with the measurement mic and my mixes translate extremely well between my Monitors and Headphones and sound exactly how I want them to on other playback systems. I actually have the first Videos on TH-cam to use the Sonarworks Studio Reference Standard which brings the most transparent listening experience on TH-cam ever. I probably shouldn't be telling my secrets to big TH-camrs because they will jump on this too but being known as the first to do this and have everyone copy me should boost my credibility well above most of theirs. Just because some of these guys are fortunate and have all this fancy equipment doesn't mean they have the proper ears for mixing and mastering music. I'm not well off but I focus on what matters and spend my money wisely. I would challenge any of these guys to a mix battle where we mix the same stems and let people choose which one sounds Better.
@@dynamicaudiomastering6487 - How do you know you're the first? Others may use Sonarworks but aren't on here bragging about being the first to do it. What exactly are you doing that is so new? Explain your process. Otherwise you just sound like someone trying to get their name recognized with a gimmick. You'll earn credibility by producing good mixes and offering good content on your channel.. not by being "known as the first to use sonarworks on their TH-cam videos".
BRO i have been commenting the Exact same thing I have sonar works and LOVE it. I use it with my 2016 audio technica ATH M40x's and i get clear centerstage. Great ADVICE!!!!!!!!!!!
Sonarworks aims to try and get your room or headphones as close to flat allowing you to translate better across systems almost the opposite of this plugin which tries to pidgeonhole your monitoring into the sound of one place.
I bought the plugin and I have not had good results. I thought maybe my material must be really bad but then I listened to some of my favorite RnB songs with this plugin and it made them sound muffled and hollow. I referenced Mary J Blidge and a host of other heavy hitters and the same results; the professional mixes sounded hollow with this plugin. I used HD280 and the MDR 7506 with the headphones modeling and the results were the same. When I mix with out the Abbey Road plugin, my mixes sound better on all sound systems. And, when I reference my favorite RnB songs without the plugin they sound better. It may be me however, I will not be using that plugin anymore. It's going into my plugin grave yard.
I spent 2 days in Studio 3 a couple of years ago-with Alan Parson's.... and the big Quested's sound great,the Bower's and Wilkin's sound great, and the nearfields that will change with whoever is engineering-will sound great/be objective-do their job-be flat,etc.... but does Waves purport to have also accurately modeled the unique characteristics of the epic monitoring in studio 3? they would have had to in order to get the 'sound' of studio 3...and I think the respective manufacturer's would be the first one's to cry "SNAKE OIL!!"... unreal.
Yoooo I'm with you bro!!! I was almost one of those dummies that got scamed because I was just seconds away from buying this trash cause I was sold by the commercial. Then I put my professional audio engineer hat back on and started thinking... My thoughts were exactly what you said... "How is that even possible?" "Its NOT PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE! PERIOD! I'm glad I stopped long to research it. They almost had me! 😆 lol Well at least you got a new subscriber and I have new Audio Buddy who keeps it real!
I used to work only in a well tuned studio, but now I mix mostly on headphones in different locations and I can honestly say this plug-in has worked really well for making headphone mixes translate to the real world. Advances in psychoacoustics have enabled many "impossible" things to happen in audio over the past 10 years, and I would put this in that category. I'm a fan of your reviews, but I agree with others who suggest actually doing a mix with this and seeing what you think after that. It's certainly MUCH better than mixing on headphones without any room simulation, and I'd also venture to say you should treat it like every time you go to a new control room... you need to "learn" the room to know what you're getting. The advantage to this is, once you learn the room, you can take it with you anywhere.
Psychoacoustics are based on principles of physics which haven't advanced or declined since the Big Bang. But I see what you mean. My problem is that I bought a DIFFERENT Waves Studio emulation and that studio isn't particularly great, LOL.
This is a really honest review. Wytse debunking some marketing bxxxxhit in spite of risking receiving no more NFRs from Waves. Thanks, Wytse. Well done! *Thumbs up*
The grand design of any mix room is that the room has no sound and should not add impediments to the sound coming from the speakers. If you can hear a difference using this plugin, the room designers didn't do a good enough job ;-)
you do know that this software works best with a few selected headphones right? like the audeze el-8, akg k-702 etc. you might wanna try the headphone EQ setting and use the right headphones before judging and dismissing it as another snake oil. you might they sound better than your cheap earphones in that video
No, he is still right. If it was a headphone correction software, with the only purpose of correcting the Frequency response of a particular set of headphones, then you would be right, but that is not what it is. This effect, is like adding some kind of multi-fx in the monitoring chain. It is possible that doing so, will make some peoples mixes sound better, because it compensates for a bit of overdoing that particular person does... But then one has to be lucky, in that this plugin performs the right tasks.
I don't understand how you can trash talk this plugin without even attempting a mix you literally played 30 seconds of a song and then just went crazy haha
I'm also a bit confused of the way that Waves has chosen with this one... They were so much for the quality not for marketing for such a long time. That's sad a bit. Thank you for your video! PS. That "Sandstorm" joke - I'm not sure if it would ever get old ;) Every time you say it, I can't wait to hear, what "version of Sandstorm" would it be this time... and there's that beautiful piano coming in. Laughing every time! :)
what's the point? You can't change or improve impluse/transient response in headphones... or speakers. His point is that what Waves is purporting the plugin can do is physically impossible to achieve. The plugin is essentially masking all of the signals in your recording. Who in their right mind would want to do that? And on the Stereo/Master Bus? Would fck up everything.
@@waltzguy14151 Ummm, no its not masking anything. If you have good headphones, this plugin does the job. And putting in the master bus is exactly where its meant to go. Of course you dont mix down with in activated.. unless you're stupid.
@@CFox.7 So, you say that after you put it in the master bus and you are using and decide the mix is ok, you have to turn it off when you mixdown ? Well, will not then sound as it did before using the plugin ?
@@codrutcroitoru remember its designed to trick your brain into thinking you are listening in a room - but you have headphones on... so yeah, turn it off before mixdown and it will sound slightly different in your headphones ( even the manual says its VERY important to turn it off before mixdown ). The plugin is essentially a spatial emulator ( like a good room reverb ).. its adding realistic, mixing room reverb to your sound while using headphones. You dont want this reverb on your mix when you mix it down as it wont sound good through normal speakers.
I could say this is a “Monitoring” plugin, not a “Processing” plugin. Yes they do process our output in a some HRTF, binaural or whatever. But this plugin is meant for us to hear better, not changing the way our mix sounds. It’s really useful especially if you don’t have a properly treated room, a good pair of studio monitor, or sub bass. FYI, their “Far” mode (the third monitor switch) is very very usefull if you are struggling with low and sub frequencies. They literally translate those frequencies so that we can mix and adjust properly! Not affiliated with waves or Abbey Road Studios, but definitely recommend this plugin!
I had a bunch of plugins from Waves, and then they hit me with emails for update fees that were 100s of dollars. At the same time they were selling a bunch of the same plugins for a sale price that was 85% lower than what the updates would cost me. No respect for loyal customers.
Matthew Kerkhoff aye bruh just steal their shit to rub it in their faces haha the same shit happended to me. Honestly I have been enjoying my slate bundle more than all of my waves plugins 🤷🏻♂️ and their customer support is amazing compared to Waves.
that's totally right - and it's a convoluted system too. And you really have no guarantee of whether there is any innovation on your "update protected plugins" (some of the old interfaces such as the renaissance stuff could really use larger UI and maybe add some parallel mix knob or M/S processing, and the only one they did was the L2) - and everything stays the same while the chuck out completely "new" plugins that do the same..
@@realraven2000 then skip the update. You can use the stuff as long as you want. I agree that the WUP plans are often too expensive, but since I'm not forced to pay that, I don't care.
NOW YOU MUST MIX AND MASTER AN EASY PROJECT IN SPEAKERS AND IN HEADPHONES WITH THIS PLUGIN, TO COMPARE AND PROCLAIM THIS PLUGIN SNAKEOIL, without this experiment we can't say anything...
is the same when they say that MQA is the new technology that transforms audio into something much better than WAV, which has more definition and is the same sound that the artist listens in the studio .... These people forget that the audio is physical and not digital and does not depend on a codec to be better or not! That is you depend on your room, your monitors and your phone to be good or not .... Other than that, you can have the codec and interface you want, it will be just another device in the Rack and in the memory of the computer.
A good subject though... the use of headphones for "mixing" ... Would love to hear your views on crutches other companies offer... SPL phonitor with all the crossfeed settings, Sonarworks Reference for headphones etc etc...
lmao did anyone else get abbey road studio 3 as a commercial for this video?
Yassss!
The programing is real
Yeah
Yep !
yup
This plug in is actually great. Have used it in compromised locations to mix multiple episodes of a national television show and have also used to mix professional mixes for radio and film. This is not a marketing gimmick it is a seriously good tool. Love the channel by the way, keep up the amazing content. always presented with good humour and intelligence. Just don't always agree.
I just started using this plugin and my mixes translate very well to all playback systems. If you have a great room that you know well, then this is not for you. Most of us mix in crappy small treated rooms that lie to your ears. I can finally hear the low end of my mixes.
Absolutely, been a game changer for me.
Same here...great starting point towards great mixes
+1 It's hard to deny the way it tightens up the low end. It's also really friggen nice to have a reference across the nears/mids/fars and in bypass mode-- my headphones on their own (count 4 distinct references with one headphone setup). Regardless of their accuracy against the "Abbey Road" room, references are references and that's no different than a car stereo, ipad etc etc. I think the setup is both practical and powerful in my tiny home studio space. Finally-- like all gear, its useful if you know how/why you're using it-- there is no audio silver bullet, and anyone looking for that will be jaded upon realizing they probably need to work on developing their ear more than plugin collection.
Me too!
Elder Orange so would you say it’s worth it I have a studio set up in my small kitchen so I could definitely see where it would be helpful to have different references in a professional sounding studio and I have good speakers I use Yamaha hs8s and my mixes sound pretty good for what I’m working with do you think using this plugin will help me clean them up even more and does it translate into other reference points well I.e. car phone computer?? Just curious on your input
What is completely overlooked here is that this plugin enables you to create 5.1 surround mixes. The whole thing even best with head tracking. And without having to install an expensive 5.1 surround system at home. at least pre-production works wonderfully. If you then still have the opportunity to listen to control again in a real 5.1 surround mix studio and make final adjustments, you have a damn powerful tool to pre-produce surround mixes independently from anywhere - for example for film post-production purposes. That alone is priceless and the plugin is a bargain for what it can do.
Discarding a plugin based on a youtube video is no different than buying one based on a commercial. That said, I have never tried the abbey road studio 3 plugin but I have used waves NX and the NX plugin with my ATH-M50x is standard for my mixing.
@@lespaul2550 I never use the head tracking feature. I always disable it. NX is one plugin that took me time to come around but once I did it became a very useful tool. The only drawback I have found mixing on headphones is that sometimes you'll get it wrong with the sub frequencies. It is a good idea to always check with monitors. I've found a way to judge my lower frequencies using frequency analyzers but I advice to always check with monitors. I've done 5.1 mixes on headphones with NX which translated excellently in the cinema.
This is the first mix I did completely on headphones with NX. I had just been robbed and all my equipments stolen. My quick fix was a laptop NX and ATH-M50x headphones. Let me know if you think the mix has drawbacks from using headphones.
th-cam.com/video/wBAMmAAhoQs/w-d-xo.html
This is NOT for make your mixes sound better, this is to give you a different reference if you don't have a perfectly treated room. It is up to you and your experience to take advantage or not.
I agree, also "technically" impulse responses can be simulated, as you can with guitar amps, and doesn't matter if you listen on one set of headphones or monitors.. the difference is noticeable. But... that being said... to mix? well, it's all relative. For a pro that has good equipment and knows what he/she is hearing, anything else will not be a good option, but if someone doesn't have a treated room, doesn't have monitors (or they are bad), or their headphones are subpar, this can give a little better experience at least.
To mix, you have to get accustomed to the sound of your source (speakers/monitors), so if you going to use this plugin, start working with it, and getting to know it, put everything through it... reference tracks included. And do the test after a month or two. Mix with it, and then check if it translates better than your old mixes. If it does?... great! if not?... oh well!
Myself, although I have a set of (cheap but ok) monitors, as I like to work at night, I can't use them so much... so I ended up getting "expensive" headphones which should be great for mixing/mastering (Shure SRH1840). I've got good feedback on my mixes, although they are not perfect, and that has to do with me, and not the equipment ;) But it will have to suffice (the headphones) until I get a place that can be sound-isolated one day.
You are 1 of the only musicians that's not afraid to let the big companies know when they get something wrong. This proves that you are genuine and that you're not just chasing sponsors. Much respect!
We just saw a narcist losing it because he simply can't accept the fact that this plugin substitutes his expensive gear and studio and he actually LOVES it but he is trying to deny it so hard, it makes him so damn angry😅
I call it innovation
I think the idea is that you perfect your mix with the plug-in enabled, using your headphones, because you are in your bedroom with untreated walls, then disable the plug-in for the final audio print.
Correct... the NX instructions state to use one instance on the master buss to sim the desired room during mixing, then disable the plugin during the final stereo bounce.
When will you do a mix with just using snake oil plugins and gear!
Holy shit thats a great idea haha
Just top the master channel with 5 to 10 sausage fatteners and It'll sound great
just crank the good ol ImageLine Soundgoodizer on a channel a bunch of times and bam, youre timbaland
genius..
mind = blown
That music was lovely.
So, I want to point out that you can create an inverse filter response. This is literally how crosstalk reduction is performed on your cellphone and smart home devices. However, properly matching your true HRTF is difficult and will lead to issues ,but it is very close to the best we can get. The main thing limiting an inverse is the slew rate of the headphones compared to the speaker you wan to model. So, he is actually incorrect.
Taking a moment to add an additional comment here after having used this plugin for a bit, and experiencing mixing both with and without for periods of time. In short, this is easily, easily worth the $99 to me. Does it replace my main/real speakers and room? Of course not, and it's not meant to. What it does is provide another 3 sets of speakers in a different room (via emulation through my headphones) on which to check my mixes. Twice now, I felt lost figuring out the low end to a particular mix I'm working on and this plug-in provided immediate help. The mid-field speakers in particular highlighted the main issue with my mix, and I was able to make a couple quick tweaks and lo and behold, problem solved. I'm finding that if it sounds good in my room on my speakers and also in the three emulated speaker systems, it can be relied upon to translate.I personally wouldn't want to spend all or even most of my time listening to the emulation, but for periodic checks it's fantastic. I would also happily use it in a situation where I'm forced to use headphones.
So, for those of you that actually understand the purpose of this plug-in, big advantages may be had. For those who don't bother to even try to understand and/or just want to make up pseudo-scientific nonsense (impulse responses are manipulated via DSP all the time these days, and we have different drivers/diaphragms all over the place in the recording/playback chain) to justify a truly mystifying take on the whole thing, you're missing out.
By the way, this is the only Waves plug-in I've purchased in ages. I used the demo until the license ran out, then did without for a couple weeks. Really missed being able to check things against the emulated room/speakers, so made the purchase. Again, well worth it, in my opinion. If you're already cranking out mixes that translate well everywhere, then you don't need this. If you're like most of us, this tool may be useful to you.
Yeah, just picked it up for $50 on sale. Definitely worth it as an emulator check and when cranking the room monitors is impossible. Disregarding the head tracking gimmick - this plugin is worth it on special
The head tracking thing is my favorite part. Without it, we're just getting the EQ of the room... which is great, sure, and sometimes I work like that. With the head tracking though, we're literally in the room. In fact, the first time I tried this plugin out with the head tracking, I was convinced that I had actually turned my real speakers on at 3:00 a.m. at high volume. I panicked, threw my headphones off, and reached for the speaker volume control.
One thing I like to do is spin the speaker location around so they're behind me. It really helps create the sense of depth for the "far" speaker emulation.... since I'm actually physically working close to a wall, and there's physically a lot more space behind me. Listening to a mix like this adds a valuable perspective I think. Of course, you can do this without the head tracking device too. But it works great because I just spin my head around and listen facing the speakers, and then just spin back and they're automatically behind me again. You really sense depth this way.
Just bought it.
I usually agree with this guy on most plugins. But unfortunately not this one. This plugin is helpful, at least to me. I don't like Waves as a company and all the insane (boderline fraudulent, yet not technically fraudulent) marketing they do but few of their plugins are actually worth it. Tried it on my headphones and it does give me a better take on mixing. Not sure if it translates that well to actual monitors but on headphones, for now, they are worth the buck.
I might call it excessive marketing, and fake "deals"... but seems like most marketing is all about the deal anyway.... I actually think Waves is great. Especially now with reasonably priced plugins, they're staying competitive. Years ago, with all them crazy prices? No, it just wasn't worth it... because honestly, you can make great music with stock plugins and a bit of carefully chosen saturation if you know what you're doing... and if you, of course, work with great musicians. Waves does have super helpful tech support, which is super important to me.
@@MikeBrayton 100%. It's almost useless without the NX head tracker!
You may not hear the detail because that is what this plugin is pointing out. The point of it is to hear what is lacking in the mix because of the superior environment, treatment and speaker quality. What you may feel is detailed, may not be when held up to that environment, which as far as I can recall has had a world renowned reputation for churning out top quality.
Exactly what I thought. The purpose was NOT to even use it on your mixes but to compare your mix to a world renowned facility. Then ask yourself "what is better about their facility?"
This plug-in is pointless if you already have a professional studio, but if you live in a shared house and only work on headphones like I do, and it's great to have a different reference - and it has really helped my mixes improve
Very funny. Good job.
Two comments I'd like to make.
First, using no EQ function by not choosing a headphone emulation is not the same as leaving it neutral to more closely emulate the buds you are accustomed to. In fact, without knowing the base eq profile, you are in fact very likely getting something that is further from what you are used to with your earbuds, than if you made the closest selection available. Second, maybe I misunderstood what you are saying about transient and impulse response emulation; but from an audio theory standpoint, you can in fact create transfer functions to emulate a differential impulse and transient response profile using active DSP or ITB related emulated processing.
Don't agree. Well this is a good reference. For many people, they don't have a good monitor system all the time but the headphone is quite convinient and cheap. The biggest problem for headphone mixing is that good mix in headphones may not translate well on monitors. It has nothing to do with the quality of headphones but the headphones themselves. To be more specific, Using monitors your left ears can hear the sound of the right channel. It's a diffuse playback system, you can hear direct sound, early reflections, reverbs. For headphones your left ear can only hear the sound of left channel. A good mix must be tested in difference playback system such as car testing, monitors, headphones. So with this tech, a talented musician with a laptop and a headphone can produce great music and mixes, not only well on headphone systems but also translate well on monitors. This is the technology I want or many other musicians who travel a lot want. A plugin that can reference your track in great abbey road studio 3 playback systems wherever you are in real world. What is technology for? Making better mix is important. But making the music production process more convinient and cheaper may be more meaningful to some people.
Also, hasn't plugin with crossfade function fixed the problem that you can only hear left channel thru left ear on headphones already?
I get what you are saying in so far, as one of the biggest problems of using headphones is the distance between the sound source and your ears. While you might be able to hear many frequency issues etc. perfectly, many things might not translate at all unto normal listening environments, like homes, clubs, or even your own studio. Because headphones will not let you witness, how your sound is affecting the surroundings of a "normal" sound source, like a pair of monitors.
So this plug is probably trying to insert all the natural "imperfections" and sonic reactions you get, when a sound source is not placed in such proximity of your ears. Things like the sonic "activation" of a room, reverb, early reflections, etc., while trying to eq and filter the sound of your headphones, in order to eliminate it's deficiencies, and then adding some coloring to make it sound like the AR system.
Problem is though, that, as stated in the video, first you will have to have a pair of great headphones, that will cost a considerable amount of money, for the resolution and transient response to be good enough, so that it can in any way try to emulate the sound in a professional studio with a really good sound system.
So given you have those, if this plug-in really takes all the room nodes etc. into consideration, a plug with different emulations of listening environments might be a nice additional feature to double check your mixes quickly in a studio-like situation, when you haven't good the time to really take it on the road and listen to it on various actual systems. But with Abbey Road, we are talking about a highly treated room with super expensive custom built monitors, so even a pair of 2000€ headphones will only be able to give you a moderate approximation of the sonic behavior of your material in the room.
Look at it this way, as a simplistic explanation: if you want to run a realistic emulation of any operation system, or video game console os on another machine, that machine's processing power has to be a lot higher, than required by the os on the original machine, as it is trying to emulate the whole machine, plus processing the programm, or game you actually wanted to use to start with.
So in our case, no EQing, filtering, 3D processing, added reflections, or whatever, can turn your headphones into a super expensive studio listening setup, because the headphone's sonic qualities would have to best these setups own qualities, in order to emulate it properly. For a consumer, it might give you the feeling of being in a room and it might try to "better" the sound, but all only within the limitations of the headphone's given sound possibilities. Transient response can not get quicker and better than what your phones are built for.
And a small speaker inside, or close to your ear (so a headphone) might be able to make you hear lower frequencies etc. but it cannot move the amount of air, or create the vibrations in the room and the listeners body, like a big monitoring system does. etc.
And that is an integral part of what makes it great to mix on those systems. That's physics.
The next problem is, let's say you have invested in a pair of great headphones, in addition to heaving a well treated room with good monitors. If you manage to get an ok approximation of the Abbey Road studio sound on them, it will still sound very different from your own room. And while you will know the quirks of your room and monitors by heart, and can therefore rely on how your mixes will translate unto other environments, you will have to learn from scratch, how this virtual room behaves additionally. It is basically the same as working in an approximation of a studio you normally don't work in.
And if this is only being used to check how a mix translates unto another system, and you can't be a 100% sure still, cause you are actually coloring the sound with a virtual Abbey Road mambo jumbo, that might not be responding the way it should on your headphones, this doesn't make any sense.
@@sergioflores5565 Of course. I'm not saying that this plugin is good enough to replace monitors. If a good monitor playback system is available then there's no necessity to use this plugin. But, it can making the sound check more available and convinient in cirtain occations. The simulation can't be perfect but it's good enough. For example, a Audio technica M50X is cheap with super low distortion as good as the expensive ones. For the frequency response problem, I think this plugin would fix the problem with internal eq. After all this is just a 99$ plugin that allows producers to have something to refer to, you can't be too hard on a small plugin. The plugin won't affect the sound quality because I think no one would be stupid enough to turn the plugin on when printing the mix. Maybe with this plugin there will be a new Avicii or some super talented kid in the dormitory of a university that produce a track as good as fxxk
@@chengzhidai3995 The biggest issue of them all... How do people today listen seriously to music? Through headphones! What it will sound like in a car, from TV speakers, or some mono network speaker, in a club or at a festival should never be the reference. When people mostly listened through the best hifi-system they could afford, well then it might have made sense using speakers in a room as the ultimate reference.
If it was a plugin to master print on the master, it would actually make more sense than it does right now.
As one of several of ways to test a mix, it might make sense, but that specific room, and such a well treated room, is hardly the best way to test how mixes translates.
This plugin is sold on how one would make better mixing choices. Mixing for speakers when most people will listen through headphones, doesn't seem like the best start. Adding compression, reverberation, EQ and could work, if those balances the personal taste of that user, in relation to "mainstream", but that would be a coincidence. Otherwise, it is like adding a nice multi effects rack on the monitoring system, and all that it added will be removed, if not printed.
Frequency correction of headphones, could be useful, but that isn't the main purpose of this software, and it actually further colors the sound, there are other software that attempts to correct the frequencies.
Avicii's talent did not come from sitting in a very expensive, particular studio. Even though he had access to some quite nice ones at the end. But he used headphones a lot. The stereo imaging on his tracks, isn't even made in such a way that hearing them like if with speakers is that important.
Where this plugin would make most sense, is in the listening device that a person uses for listening with headphones, running on top of the music playback software. I'm not sure how one can route audio in iOS, if it would be possible to route Spotify/Apple Music/TH-cam (as well as other audio players) through a signal chain with a plugin running... And then they would have to do the iOS version of the plugin.
If I could to that, then I would seriously consider getting an iOS device, and this software (plus other necessary software), just for music playback.
For studiowork, this is mostly a gimmick, at least by how it is marketed.
I totally agree with you, this was in my head all the time
I have a completely different experience. I have Sennheiser 800S headphones and Sonarworks. Pretty close to my ideal spot in my corrected room but with the headphones and Sonarworks (for headphones) I still couldn’t get the bass level right and this is reflected in the difference I hear between speakers (Yamaha HS8 and HS8S sub) and headphones. Adding this Waves plugin along with Sonarworks gets me to where I cannot tell the difference between my ideal spot with monitors compared to my headphones with Sonarworks and this new Waves plugin. I don’t care whether it sounds like Abbey Road Studios or not, but with all my stuff it makes for a much better experience than without it. So in this rare case I respectfully disagree. Enjoyed your passion in the video and can’t wait for your next one!
James Gramze My experience too
I got the hs8 and had the exact same experience. I'm running some dt1990s while mixing in some sonarworks into abbey studio 3. With the tracking on it really did make me think I forgot to switch from monitors to headphones when I pressed play in a knee jerk reaction sense. I think they have done a fantastic job. I found the near, mid and far speakers have been very helpful for mixing too, especially for bass..
Thousands and thousands of dollars worth of great gear and STILL you need this plugin to get things right? Seriously???
@@rt-uh6mt Who said anything about need? Its a tool to be used in certain situations and we saw the value in it.
Do you use Sonarworks before Studio 3 or after?
You’re the only TH-camr I trust anymore for honest opinions and a realistic approach. Everyone else seems to be getting paid off or succumbing to popular opinions and trends. Just a side note, I feel that there is a suckfest around Kali monitors and believe every “review” on them is total horse shit. I would like to see an honest review from you about these and hopefully call out their bullshit marketing hype. I highly doubt these stupid LP-6 monitors are better than standard car speakers, but every single person on TH-cam is acting like they’re the most breakthrough innovation that’s ever happened.
Frankly I’m not even interested in the monitors because they’re not in the professional league, but I always enjoy when shitty products with a misleading marketing campaign are exposed for what they are.
So one (potentially) good thing about this software: if you only own crappy headphones, and several kinds of crappy headphones, this software will make audio sound more consistent between your crappy headphones by colouring it in the same way (assuming your headphones are not crappy enough to colour any audio you pass through them in a really crappy way anyway)...
100% mixing with good monitors is always the way to go case closed!
clive saunders but have u tried it ? Not being an asshole
Provided it doesn't break the bank.
idk might be a good thing if making music in your headphones is what you do, its the only option for a lot of people
I agree that the marketing is wrong but here is the deal. When I have to record on headphones (night time... neighbors, small children, ect...) this helps me get an initial mix that is not shockingly different when I play it back on my monitors later. I would never do a final mix on this software but it's great to not feel like what I created in my headphones is irreconcilably different from what I get back in my monitors.
I use this plugin with headphones by Orange amplifiers and do comparative listens with Bose and then shit earbuds just to listen for different details. Of course, the better the headphones, the better the mix, but anyone who thinks they are gonna get a killer pro track with ear buds is fooling themselves. This comes in handy when I have to work late into the night for comping and setting my reverbs and delay levels properly. It also comes in handy when my wife needs to sleep and I need to work **smiles**. I have gotten some great midnight mixes out of this, that hold their own on real monitors as well as every other speaker I listen on. I am not the greatest engineer, but this has definitely helped me while I was learning. Its actually not bad and I wish this was around when I had a home apartment studio, where I wasn't really allowed and couldn't really afford to do a proper sound treatment in my living room with dogs barking and neighbors stomping on the ceiling.
Of course, it is never going to compare to the experience of being in Abbey Road studio...it's just designed around it. I have the head tracker too. I say, give it a go mate and just see what it's like start to finish and do a comparative mix. my 2 cents **wink**
I think you're totally missing the point here. I gave it a try and recorded a brand new song...drums, guitars,vox ...etc... Usually, i would give it a listen in the car after first mix and had to make a few adjustments. This time(using studio 3) i was happy with the mix after first shot....just like what they said: It translates perfectly from system to system.
And i also have a decent setup with a couple of headphones(shure404 and audiotechnica ath-m50), near-field monitors(rokit), far field 2,5kw through my 8kw stage amp(2x10", 4x12",4xhorns and 18" sub) and a decent mid field old school sony amp with nice vintage yamaha speakers) Sounds pretty much the same as their studio 3 emulation. And the one thing i got from it, was: i could compare my room sound to their emulation and have a decent reference. totally worth the money. And on your rant about speaker response: its all about frequency response and even the crapy headphones have a frequency response higher than your ear and better than 24bit 41k.
-yeah, it's not for everyone(obviously /\ ) but i can totally see it being a useful tool for mixing on the go, on a laptop
or for another reference point for your own room. After you're done you just click it off or remove from chain(pretty important step of the process:)
A track wont magically sound better, everywhere, because of the use of a simulation plugin.
Either you have an issue in your monitoring situation that causes you to make the wrong decisions.
Or it was just a coincidence.
Every room, every audio system has its own issues, there is no mix that fits all situations.
If you end up having to fix your mixes after listening in your car. Then you might have issues with the sound in your car, and your specific car might not be the best source of reference for everyone else. Or you have issues with your monitoring system that makes you tweak levels of certain frequency bands, so they cause issues on other systems than your main monitoring system (this could either be because of the frequency response through your monitoring system, or that your personal taste is to mix certain frequencies in a way that your monitoring system can handle, but other systems might not).
If this plugin had emulations of a lot of rooms and a lot of speakers and it was about picking up on issues that others might experience, then that would make sense.
Or if all it did was to introduce the channel crosstalk experience while listening on speakers to ones headphones (then it could also be used as a master FX to make mixes for headphone users).
But it isn't, it is about selling the dream of sitting in a studio space that is very expensive to rent. And unless one is lucky with circumstances in a way that it perfectly compensates for the issues of ones personal monitoring system, it won't make mixes sound better.
@@TheJonHolstein I agree....not for everyone. If you got some scientists to treat your room and tons of money, I'm absolutely sure you don't need it. But for less $$ than a evening out in a bar, another reference point is not bad at all. Anything else for listening to your mixes is way more expensive. And as far as I know after you're done, mixes should sound good on any system....from cheap little transistors on the beach, different cars (including my ex cop car) to kick ass stage sound systems. I am no expert but I've been doin this as a hobby for over 20yrs. From my early teens. And I don't care what kinda "trick$" people use to make it, if it does the trick I like it.
... actually, I think you could make a release for headphones only, with this plugin, it just wouldn't sound the best on speakers. In fact, I'd love a plugin like that on my phone for listening with headphones.
-i am not affiliated with waves in any way, just not a big fan of problem seeking generation. Options in my eyes have always been great...I wouldn't down talk any option ever, coz I'm sure it fits someone 😉.
It would have been great if you would have mixed part of a song with it that has drums bass instead of just keys. Also, I haven't tried this plugin, but the I've used the waves NX plugin, since I don't have a tuned room, it helped me get a better perspective on my bottom end which jumps around my walls. W the NX plug it pushes the music back as if you are listening in a room at a distance, so you can hear the collective sound of all the instruments. So you are supposed to lose details bcz every day music loves don't listen to music on hi end headphones or studio speakers placed perfectly in the stereo field. I use NX as another means to check my mix. It sounds murky imperfect and helps with ear fatigue when spending much time on headphones.
It’s good to see an alternative point of review that’s honest instead of being fed on how good a plug-in is by so called industry professionals, when in effect the plugin is just a waste of money
The thing is that there are people that can make a good mix on headphones, without any plugin of room emulations. If you know what you are doing, you can.
This plugin is for people who are used to mixing in a mix room but for some reason need to mix on headphones. Headphones DO NOT represent the stereo field accurately. This plugin is supposed to fix that when you need to mix on headphones. Its not supposed to make shit sound good. Its supposed to give you an accurate representation of whats there since headphones don't. If you buy nice studio monitors, it means nothing unless your rooms treated. A studio monitors purpose is to give you an accurate representation of whats there sonically. What happens if you need to mix but you're on the road and limited to headphones and laptop? You could make it happen. But you could do a better job if you were mixing based on an accurate representation of what it sounds like in a room. Not trying to beat a dead horse. But i dont think its a marketing stunt for bedroom producers. Wouldn't do much for them. They're not used to nice monitors in a well treated room. This plugin is genius. And if I'm ever mixing on headphones away from my studio, this would be great to have!
Even then most pro studios are now using Sonarworks Reference 4 because their treatment is still never enough.
I use Reference 4 for my headphones and studio monitors and it translates perfectly. And on normal playback systems my mixes sound excellent.
People just NEED to listen to and learn their freaking headphones, if they NEED to mix on laptop and headphones.
Does YOUR room sound the same as Studio 3? Let me tell you something, it doesn't. You won't be able to mix precise with this.
I think this thing has it uses. Not as a mastering tool, but as what is it: A simulation of an old studio room. Lots of folks are working with laptops and in-ears nearly everywhere they go. I guess it's a plugin that could help them to mix better. With headphones the stereo-basis and bass response is your biggest problem and I think this plugin could help those guys. I don't think it is a replacement for good speakers but it IS better then no real speakers in my opinion. - Time will tell, if laptop producers are picking that plugin up and making better mixes or not.
The whole point of the NX Suite is to use it with the *NX bluetooth head tracker*. With this, it's like VR for your ears: Really useful for mixing on headphones. Without, it just sounds like a crappy filter.
I'd love to see a review using the actual hardware as intended.
If Waves messed up here - it was in failing to be explicit that this plugin is useless without the head tracker. It's borderline useless with the camera tracker!
You are so right. Thank You 🙏
I have to ask as I have used it and done a brilliant mix down.
You have reviewed this saying it wouldn’t work correct?
Did you personally do a full stem mix down using it and then review your work after? Cos to me you just played the some music then gave your response
Kind of like describe how it feels to drive a sports car without even starting the engine.
Thank you! I think in the same way. It is about the ''soundcolor''. I mix myself with HD800S for Mastering with and without the plugin and it is easier to decide what's wrong with the bass for e.g. when turned on because headphone are not capable of reproducing bass in a room with speaker emulation.
So ... what did the world do before they could pretend to mix down in the world's greatest control room?
@@rt-uh6mt Find a paid studio with relatively good acoustics or spent hundreds on fixing up a room for decent-sounding acoustics which could never live up to a professional studio like ARS3.
b. t.
This really is a void point if you apply this to production in every way.
Why use a VST? Learn guitar
Why get KorgM1 plugin? Buy the real thing
Why play Fifa? Go and play outside in a team.
What’s your point b. t. ? Why work for a living ...build a meth lab instead of a studio...lots of money and success in that...wow we can go all week with this one!!!
You’re yelling about the inaccuracy but the real test would be mixing a session using the plugin compared with not using it. Your argument is about a lack of precision but the primary goal was creating a center image, cross-talk differentiation and life-like bass response.
Omg yes brother! One of the reasons I can't stand this guy 🤣
Tyler Rifley Music hahah I watch his vids. His opinions are just that, opinions. But I appreciate his attention to detail. But detail isn’t the goal here. Big picture is the goal with this plug in. Make the details we pick apart on headphones matter less (cuz they truly matter less)
I was going to do this. My idea was to mix the same song using Sonarworks Reference 4 and This waves plugin and let people choose which one sounds better.
Unfortunately the support for headphones from waves is so slim that I don't own any of the supported headphones.
I actually do the first Videos on TH-cam using the Sonarworks Studio Reference standard. This means that if you use reference 4 as well then you should hear almost the exact same thing I'm hearing giving people the most transparent listening experience on TH-cam ever.
I just started my channel based on this model so I don't have many videos yet but I do atleast one a week so check it out if you're interested. I'm not as fancy as some of these other guys but if true sound is what you seek then you may like what I do.
Gernot Hassknecht I understand the complaint. Different drivers and materials produce the dynamics of frequencies in different ways. It’s impossible to incorporate that but doesn’t make the function of the plugin useless.
Wow, you didnt understand what hes talking about. You still cant change the impulse response, which is such bad for a neutral reference..
I feel like it's more for an alternate reference. Obviously it's not going to sound exactly the same, but if you can turn it on and what you're doing is compatible with it, along with your dry headphone signal and your monitors you're probably on the right track. If anything I think it's acceptable tool to just flip on and double check compatibilities. Generally I feel like it is good to have multiple sources, because one thing will be telling you something the other isn't.
Popcorn pop'ing!
Great video!
Your rant was very amusing LOL.
But on the serious side, I think you missed the whole point of the technology. Sometimes we are forced to mix OUTSIDE of our own control room. For example, how do you generate a client mix when you're attending Summer NAMM?!
We can't carry Genelecs on the plane and the hotel guests and staff won't let us mix at volume at 2:20pm. So, mostly, we have to use headphones. Try getting a very good mix using headphones with sound being direct injected into each ear. Good luck with judging how well your M/S processing is working and good luck maintaining a good center in a complex automated mix.
The plugin is actually a VERY GOOD IDEA since it solves the center imaging issue of headphones AND it provides THREE sets of "speakers" to audition your mix.
I suggest you mix on headphones, audition that mix on several systems (to check how well your mix transfers) and THEN do the same with this plugin. I believe you will find it helps you get a better mix.
Serious question: wouldn't you just use a ref track anyway to account for changes in environment.
Using Ref tracks is a given. The issue comes down to the anomalies that using only headphones bring.
Stereo imaging can be way off... I'm using Sonarworks Pro now and that seems to help a lot.
But then, what do you do for various speaker sets (when you've taken a taxi or Uber from the airport and don't have your car for listening)? @@mindstuff417
@@sijel Had it been a general plugin, for checking mixes, sure, and AR3 was an add on, like buying patches. But an emulation of that room, only that room, it is severely limited. I would have loved to have it as a plugin on my phone to listen to music trough when using headphones, for that I think it would be great. As a mix checker, sold with the dream of hearing mixes in AR3, it is more marketing than serious at being a useful tool.
Did you use it yet? I've found it VERY useful.@@TheJonHolstein
I like this plugin sounds great
I like it when you make waves😎
ARS3 is okay to evaluate bass,mid`s and treble frequencies in a mix, especially when the preset-reference headphones are used.
In order to be able to assess an entire mix in terms of its depth-transparency (wide stereo ranges and "far away" centered events), it is not so quite suitable, because the aural-room sounds a bit too mid/center-heavy (especially in near field).
When you know how to deal the plugin, it`s helpful then, but if you are unsure about the mixing, the "coloring" sound of the room will be irritating for sure because it only gives you a kind of "different hearing impression/color".
Of course, the plugin does not replace the need to know your headphones (especially the weaknesses).
Otherwise you are faced with the same problems and questions with ARS3, too ;-)
I think the only way to judge this plugin would be to create a mix on headphones and then remix it from scratch on a different day with speakers and compare.
yes great idea !!
Please do a mix completely with this Plugin and then do the same mix on headphones without the Plugin or on speakers and let the viewers decide wich mix sounds better;)
Yep. Opinions... Eh? We all have one. But at least we can compare 2 mixes
yep. my pet peeve of every sonarworks review
I second that
Yeah that would be super interesting to hear.. a blind mix test
I don't see the point. It is one thing, if the plugin, was designed to correct the frequency response by actually compensating for individual hearing (in relation to the headphones). Or if they managed somehow to actually perfectly simulate the crosstalk of listening to speakers while on headphones. (that could also make for a good mastering plugin, for people that want to distribute music with a headphone adopted mix, and that would make sense today when music is mostly heard on heaphones)
But the effect of a plugin like this, is like putting an EQ and reverb effect in the signal chain, after the DAW but before the sound reaches the ears.
It could impact the mixes in a way so that some people will prefer that mix.
A plugin that is supposed to be like that, and marketed as such could make some sense. If the user knows that, it will color the sound to your personal taste, but leave the mix better suited for others, if they know there is something they can't help themselves from overdoing.
If you have the HD650 headphone, you can choose the HD600 range. It's better to choose a brand if poss, but there are not enough options for that. But then, we can't expect them to model each headphone. You can do mix on headphones, but it will always have a problem of not translating to a ''normal stereo image.'' However, almost everyone has gotten used to listening on headphones and we accept the stereo image, yet it isn't as intended. When you mix with monitors, your left ear doesn't just hear data from the left speaker. It picks up the reflections as you said and date from the right monitor. You are meant to TURN OFF the Abbey Rd 3 when exporting. There is no way Waves have tried to fool you into thinking they have modelled your headphones to sound like their monitors. It is an approximation to guide you into a mix, when it proves almost impossible to mix in the environment you are in.
I use Abbey Rd 3 rarely in the evening if I want to get a mix in a ball park way. I never use the Head-Tracking, because I don't want a simulation of my head moving. I want a simulation of my head being in the right place 100% of the time. Also, it's less processing for the computer. Many people edit in very poor environments, and that's why this type of thing is useful. The thing I like about Waves is that you can try them out and see if you think it's snake oil or not. But it is impossible to get a true studio stereo image on headphones. Nothing wrong with mixing like that if it suites a person/client and if you trust your headphones. That was a good start to the video - that you do trust your ear plugs. Thanks.
Warren Huart just did a shootout by actually going to the Abby Road control room and A/B’d between the real room and the plugin. It is posted on his channel Produce Like a Pro. He liked it a lot and finds it quite useful for someone mixing on the go who might work in one studio for a bit then continue working with your laptop on a plane.
I don’t think one listen through headphones gives you a good objective view of its capabilities.
For that, they should do a product, where one can sample the specific characteristics of the studio one is using, not one that is made for just 1 studio in the world.
You need to assign the headphones your using in the drop down menu on the right..It's a very cool tool. Warren at Recording like a Pro loves this pluggins..
H-Delay and their dbx160 are the only *waves* plugs i still use.
I like their other plugs but don't like to rely on them, mainly due to their upgrade system, - and the fact that i personally find quite a few of their plugs give me ear-fatigue. - like chewing gum, they soon lose their flavour...
Yes! I have a lot of Waves and I still use H-Delay once in awhile. The others I have (PuigChild, CLA-LA, Abbey Road TG, H-everything...) sound great on a single track but a whole mix OD's on them every time.
Ik moet je wel gelijk geven met deze video. Ik heb veel Wave plug-ins gekocht voordat ik jou channel had ontdekt echter sinds ik de Fabfilter Pro serie heb gekocht gebruik ik ze amper meer. Ik zou wel eens een video willen zien over wel of geen limiters gebruiken en wat voor een effect heeft het gebruik van een limiter op de dynamiek volgens jou visie. Ik ben geen mixing engineer maar wel een muziek gek en houd van goede kwaliteit. Dit was weer een prima video Wytze!😎👍👊
You are absolutely right. I’m going to put out software to simulate Abby road on the Mars surface!
The “blind fold” had me lol! 😂😂😂
As a waves user, I'm just here to watch you rip on waves.
Me too..
hay buddy. your awesome. your honesty is so refreshing. you've saved me plenty money. Thank You.
Drowning under the waves.
Try mixing on it :) the people want to see a comparison
Not sure if I agree with all of this. If you always want the most detail and accuracy, then why not always mix with headphones? Great headphones are a lot more accurate and detailed than a well treated room with great speakers, and a heck of a lot cheaper.
There's a reason most producers and mixing engineers prefer to mix in a great room instead of headphones, and this plugin aims to make this experience more accessible for people without such a room. Not sure if it's successful at that though, I haven't tried it yet.
The stereo-imaging differs with headphones compared to speakers (due to channels cross-talk when the audio reaches ones ear from speakers and reflection in a room). But today when most people will actually listen on headphones, it would be better to mix with headphones... Or perhaps, rather have the opposite of this plugin, something that attempts to make speakers sound like headphones (impossible though).
There are many reasons why one might not want to wear headphones while mixing.
Comfort. (heat, weight and for some isolating properties that may feel claustrophobic).
Hindrance to move freely (moving around in a room while mixing on speakers, though means that one has to reference the sound all over from the reference point, otherwise there will be balance issues due to proximity issues, an issue that one would not have with headphones as they will sound the same, no matter how much one moves in space)
Talking to mixing partners.
Even greater risk of damaging ones hearing.
And more that I can't think of at this moment.
After this rant... I like you even more. Keep 'em coming!
I will by it when it goes on sale for $29 dollars. Until then I will continue to mix from my speakers an continue to get adjusted to my room. The most important thing is to take care of your ears!!!!
Lolll tempted to do that... Don't know if I'll be able to wait though cause I tried it with the trial and this thing is 👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾
"...you wanna have the purest signal to your head..." NOPE, I disagree!
As soon as you're mixing with any monitors in any room (which is the usual way of mixing), the purity is gone. Sure, if you're mixing on headphones you've got that direct injection in your ears and your mixes will probably translate well to other headphones. But as soon as you want to translate to non-optimal-listening-environments (that's every room, be it a living room or a car) you have to judge your mixes in a room you know well on speakers you know well. In this point I absolutely agree with you!
Can I mix solely on headphones, be it with or whithout AR Studio 3? No!
Is it a good additional tool for judging mixies in a different environment other than my imperfect home studio? Of course it is!
As an additional tool for auditioning mixes in another room with other speakers, well, then it is very limited. Just a highly treated room, with expensive equipment. Unless you are mixing your music only for people listening in expensive studios, it makes little sense.
Stereo-Speaker-Crosstalk emulation for, could be a great tool, for rough stereo-image mixes with headphones. But that is not all it does. And the rest makes little sense.
Besides, today, most people do serious music listening on headphones, so why the focus on mixing for speakers.
The best use I can think of for this software is as a tool for listening to music through, when on headphones.
I am in no way a Waves advocate. I have a few of their plug in's and find them useful. I downloaded the demo for Studio 3 and thought it was a very useful tool. I am considering buying it. I did a few tests of my own with a very open mind and was very pleased with the results. I've seen a few of your videos in the past, but have decided to avoid your videos now in the future based on your closed mindset. This is an awesome tool for a person who has no access to monitors or a "proper studio." It seemed at times that you were going into a TH-cam channel host persona at times during your video, which is understandable but also a turn off to me when it comes to testing new technology. I'm sure Waves put a lot of research into this product and it is far from perfect. It is easy for you to just make a video in hopes that people will watch it and earn you subscribers. Kudos to those with an open mind to new ideas.
I recommend getting the bluetooth tracker. It makes it scarily good to the point you forget you're listening to headphones. Having custom calibrated headphones from Sonarworks and this plugin lets me mix on the road and they hold up when I get home to my Barefoots.
Abbey Road Studio 3 is aimed at the home amateur producer who tries it, hears something different, thinks 'different is better' and then relies on the plugin to solve his issues. Like every compressor is better when it sounds louder, and every eq plugin is better because as soon as you turn a knob you hear a change and think 'yeah I want change'.
I love you for exposing them. I mix on headphones (blame the neighbours). When I finish a mix I play it on 3 different speaker systems, then I always have to go back and change some choices. Then on the different speakers again and hey, that's not too bad at all. If I put Abbey Road Studio 3 somewhere in there, I am screwed. I tried it, like you did, and if there is a hell for plugins, this one ends just there. Burning, whiplashed, thrashed, maimed and in general laughed out of the room.
Waves should be ashamed. They have excellent plugins, that really help people make better mixes. CLA2A, Puigtec, VComp, the renaissance ones, H-reverb... like them or not, if you use them well you get better sounding stuff. But this one just tricks people into believing they make better mixes. booo hissss
I mix with this thing, and it works.
just before I got to watch this video the sponsored ad was for the waves studio 3 plugin hahaha
I have spent about 40 hours doing remixes using trial version of this plug in for the entire week, and my conclusion is that it is a helpful ‘tool’ for checking your mixes, although the marketing gimmick is kinda stupid.
What this plug in does is make badly mixed songs sound absolutely horrible to the unbearable level, while good mixes sound decent on any of its near/mid/far options. Ignore the whole thing about ‘being in the control room’, but think of it as a tool that lets you check your mixes in different settings, for reference.
It is a bit of a snake oil marketing ploy, which I don’t like either, but seriously, download the trial version and run your mixes through them. This plug in is not designed to make things sound pleasant, but it provides very good check points, and a mix that sounds decent through this plug in translates very well to other real speakers/headphones/earphones etc.
Thanks for the comment, i really dislike waves and their marketing ploys but i feel like this video wasn't a proper review and completely missed the point.
I like how it sounds... it could be fun idea to add it to the master right before mastering chain. If it doesnt cause any issues. I like to do theoretically stupid decisions to like that to add a bit of spice to the mix....
Id say not worth the money tho
It's amazing to see some fucking honesty for a change. Keep it up!!
I`m testing this plugin since 5 days and personally really began to love it. I really love making beats at night (and mix them at the same time) and because of my homestudio situation/neighbours I can`t work on monitors after 10 pm. I`m working a lot on my AKG K141mk2 headphones (maybe not the best for producing, rather a good reference headphone) and regularly made such big mistakes with them, especially in the drums and bass/808 area. Often it took me very long, to fix them, change sounds etc. on monitors then the next days, what is pretty frustrating, because I currently don`t have a real studio.
But with this new plugin, it became way more easy, especially my sound selection is way better. I made a complete new beat with mix and master to test this plugin and it personally really fascinates me, especially the 3 different monitor settings. In my opionion waves did a really good job with this, even the "NX", they brought out before, was nice.
Great!! I love this very much! ...always changing the speakers distance to refresh my mind from another point if view. Fantastic plugin
Should I OFF this plugin when I making export ?
@@yats7322yes absolutely, bypass the plugin when exporting
Hey man! Since switching from Pro Tools to Logic I've really been missing the LoFi plugin that Pro Tools comes with and have been unable to find an alternative. I'm referring to the distortion and saturation that the plugin offers. I'd love to see a video where you analyze what it's actually doing using Plugindoctor and all that jazz, to hopefully get one step closer to finding an alternative.
Nembrini Audio Lofi Clipper
@@damienlewis7882 Yeah, that's the closest thing I've been able to find. The distortion sounds very similar, but I'm mostly after the saturation and sadly it doesn't really seem to catch the sound of the LoFi saturation. It still might be useful for similar tasks, so I might buy it in the future and try it out for myself. :)
Ironically, YT played a WAVES/AR3 ad to intro your video. "Mix like you are in Abbey Road Studio 3 on your Designed-in-California-USA (built elsewhere) laptop with Bang & Olufsen audio and Klipsch speakers, while streaming to your fans via the built-in webcam with Zeiss optics as you jam on your Fender Strat Squier plugged into your Marshall mini-fridge. And the little green leaf shows the world you are earth-friendly, as it is powered by 100% recycled electrons."
(Is this product the very definition of brand sellout?)
Merci de m'avoir sauvé des griffes commerciales de "Waves".
I kind of agree with you as they seem to be going down the "emulation" road by packaging a glorified impulse response with this. They would be much better creating a room correction plug-in which allows you then to audition your room in different environments than force-feeding it into a state of the art of mix room.
Dunde bunyaadi, even four years ago room correction plugins abounded. AND - if you spend a certain amount of money on monitors (which is an area I don't believe can be skimped on and yeah, you have to spend some money)...point is expensive monitors have their own room correction capabilities built-in, actual physical controls, I don't mean software corrections The German company that built mine (no need to mention their name) is so high and mighty they say "don't adjust unless you know what you're doing."
Well, guys, I've downloaded demo of ABS 3 and now I am going to make a different mix of the tune that is already finished
I totally agree. You are correct. “Snake oil!There’s a lot of Audio software out that is a total waste of money. I wish we all lived in a world where the Quality of things is not determined by the price.
Why so much excitement - Cool Down
I own the waves nx plugin and it has these headphone profiles, too. But the big problem with it and also the plugin in this video is, that there are just a few headphone models supported. They don't support beyerdynamic 770 Pro, which are really widely used. I'm a bit confused to see that they still support so few headphones in this brand new plugin, which is made to use with headphones.
Nice video by the way 😁 greets from Germany
Ive been working with sonar works, and they have about every headphone, and hate to admit this, but yes it creates a damned Good center stage. when i take phones off its IDENTICLE to what is pulsating through mi monitors. focus rite had in their plugg in collective a while back. this has been a useful tool for me, esp when decibals, Neighbors are a factor for some
I think Waves will add more profiles in future. I use Sonarworks after NX for phones not profiled in NX.
Waves, a company that sells new plugins for less than $50, is now “all about money.” Their prices are literally 1/10th of what they were 15 years ago when you claim they were more about quality than money. I’m not a Waves fanboy, but this rant, especially coming without an A/B mix test, seems to be more about views than quality. I highly doubt that Abbey Road would put their name on it if it was not useful let alone bad or if it failed at trying to do something impossible.
The constant sales are just the initial bait for buying upgrades and upgrade plan. How about buying the plugin for full price (199-250) and getting life time upgrades? NAAAH! Pay 30 for the plugin and 100 every. single. year. after.
100%. In 2009 I paid 350 FRIKIN DOLLARS for their Desser plugin that has been like 40 bucks for the last 5 years 🙄
I am totally with you!!!!
I like the rant!
There is a list of specific headphones to use it... Sonarworks headphones I consider a better option and more usefull...
What do you think?
Definitely, I have the studio edition of Reference 4 with the measurement mic and my mixes translate extremely well between my Monitors and Headphones and sound exactly how I want them to on other playback systems.
I actually have the first Videos on TH-cam to use the Sonarworks Studio Reference Standard which brings the most transparent listening experience on TH-cam ever. I probably shouldn't be telling my secrets to big TH-camrs because they will jump on this too but being known as the first to do this and have everyone copy me should boost my credibility well above most of theirs.
Just because some of these guys are fortunate and have all this fancy equipment doesn't mean they have the proper ears for mixing and mastering music.
I'm not well off but I focus on what matters and spend my money wisely. I would challenge any of these guys to a mix battle where we mix the same stems and let people choose which one sounds Better.
@@wtssmaller never said I was the first to use it. Lots of people use it. But I am the first to use it the way I do.
@@dynamicaudiomastering6487 - How do you know you're the first? Others may use Sonarworks but aren't on here bragging about being the first to do it. What exactly are you doing that is so new? Explain your process. Otherwise you just sound like someone trying to get their name recognized with a gimmick. You'll earn credibility by producing good mixes and offering good content on your channel.. not by being "known as the first to use sonarworks on their TH-cam videos".
BRO i have been commenting the Exact same thing I have sonar works and LOVE it. I use it with my 2016 audio technica ATH M40x's and i get clear centerstage. Great ADVICE!!!!!!!!!!!
Sonarworks aims to try and get your room or headphones as close to flat allowing you to translate better across systems almost the opposite of this plugin which tries to pidgeonhole your monitoring into the sound of one place.
You are rapidly becoming a legend in everyone's lunchtime. Bless
Its dinner time over here, but okay :-)
@@Whiteseastudio I love what you do man, much respect to you.
Honestly, I really watch his videos all the time while I'm at work on my lunch break lmao
This is hilarious I'm literally watching this on lunch 🤣
I bought the plugin and I have not had good results. I thought maybe my material must be really bad but then I listened to some of my favorite RnB songs with this plugin and it made them sound muffled and hollow. I referenced Mary J Blidge and a host of other heavy hitters and the same results; the professional mixes sounded hollow with this plugin. I used HD280 and the MDR 7506 with the headphones modeling and the results were the same. When I mix with out the Abbey Road plugin, my mixes sound better on all sound systems. And, when I reference my favorite RnB songs without the plugin they sound better. It may be me however, I will not be using that plugin anymore. It's going into my plugin grave yard.
I spent 2 days in Studio 3 a couple of years ago-with Alan Parson's.... and the big Quested's sound great,the Bower's and Wilkin's sound great, and the nearfields that will change with whoever is engineering-will sound great/be objective-do their job-be flat,etc.... but does Waves purport to have also accurately modeled the unique characteristics of the epic monitoring in studio 3? they would have had to in order to get the 'sound' of studio 3...and I think the respective manufacturer's would be the first one's to cry "SNAKE OIL!!"... unreal.
Yoooo I'm with you bro!!! I was almost one of those dummies that got scamed because I was just seconds away from buying this trash cause I was sold by the commercial. Then I put my professional audio engineer hat back on and started thinking... My thoughts were exactly what you said... "How is that even possible?"
"Its NOT PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE!
PERIOD! I'm glad I stopped long to research it. They almost had me! 😆 lol
Well at least you got a new subscriber and I have new Audio Buddy who keeps it real!
I used to work only in a well tuned studio, but now I mix mostly on headphones in different locations and I can honestly say this plug-in has worked really well for making headphone mixes translate to the real world. Advances in psychoacoustics have enabled many "impossible" things to happen in audio over the past 10 years, and I would put this in that category. I'm a fan of your reviews, but I agree with others who suggest actually doing a mix with this and seeing what you think after that. It's certainly MUCH better than mixing on headphones without any room simulation, and I'd also venture to say you should treat it like every time you go to a new control room... you need to "learn" the room to know what you're getting. The advantage to this is, once you learn the room, you can take it with you anywhere.
I agree. The plug-in is certainly redundant if you have a well treated room, but if not, it can be massively helpful.
Psychoacoustics are based on principles of physics which haven't advanced or declined since the Big Bang.
But I see what you mean.
My problem is that I bought a DIFFERENT Waves Studio emulation and that studio isn't particularly great, LOL.
It`s sad to see people getting bad information from you !
This is a really honest review. Wytse debunking some marketing bxxxxhit in spite of risking receiving no more NFRs from Waves. Thanks, Wytse. Well done! *Thumbs up*
I never got NFR’s from them 😂
Lmao man you are better than coffee. You give uncut, unedited, and raw critique. The rants are the best.
Dude: I don't think you understand transfer functions.
Yeah lmao this is such a cringey video
The grand design of any mix room is that the room has no sound and should not add impediments to the sound coming from the speakers. If you can hear a difference using this plugin, the room designers didn't do a good enough job ;-)
THEME PARK IT IS!!!
you do know that this software works best with a few selected headphones right? like the audeze el-8, akg k-702 etc. you might wanna try the headphone EQ setting and use the right headphones before judging and dismissing it as another snake oil. you might they sound better than your cheap earphones in that video
No, he is still right. If it was a headphone correction software, with the only purpose of correcting the Frequency response of a particular set of headphones, then you would be right, but that is not what it is.
This effect, is like adding some kind of multi-fx in the monitoring chain. It is possible that doing so, will make some peoples mixes sound better, because it compensates for a bit of overdoing that particular person does... But then one has to be lucky, in that this plugin performs the right tasks.
I don't understand how you can trash talk this plugin without even attempting a mix you literally played 30 seconds of a song and then just went crazy haha
Totally agree with you, do a mix on it and show us the A/B comparison, this is click bait
It's a great plugin and pros who have been in the music business for like 30+ years(whose opinions I trust) have been singing its praises.
What a great channel!
great rant
I'm also a bit confused of the way that Waves has chosen with this one... They were so much for the quality not for marketing for such a long time. That's sad a bit.
Thank you for your video!
PS. That "Sandstorm" joke - I'm not sure if it would ever get old ;) Every time you say it, I can't wait to hear, what "version of Sandstorm" would it be this time... and there's that beautiful piano coming in. Laughing every time! :)
Reviews a mixing tool without mixing through it....solid work
what's the point? You can't change or improve impluse/transient response in headphones... or speakers. His point is that what Waves is purporting the plugin can do is physically impossible to achieve. The plugin is essentially masking all of the signals in your recording. Who in their right mind would want to do that? And on the Stereo/Master Bus? Would fck up everything.
@@waltzguy14151 Ummm, no its not masking anything. If you have good headphones, this plugin does the job. And putting in the master bus is exactly where its meant to go. Of course you dont mix down with in activated.. unless you're stupid.
@@CFox.7 So, you say that after you put it in the master bus and you are using and decide the mix is ok, you have to turn it off when you mixdown ? Well, will not then sound as it did before using the plugin ?
@@codrutcroitoru remember its designed to trick your brain into thinking you are listening in a room - but you have headphones on... so yeah, turn it off before mixdown and it will sound slightly different in your headphones ( even the manual says its VERY important to turn it off before mixdown ). The plugin is essentially a spatial emulator ( like a good room reverb ).. its adding realistic, mixing room reverb to your sound while using headphones. You dont want this reverb on your mix when you mix it down as it wont sound good through normal speakers.
@@CFox.7 Yes. It makes sense now :) Thanks :)
I could say this is a “Monitoring” plugin, not a “Processing” plugin. Yes they do process our output in a some HRTF, binaural or whatever. But this plugin is meant for us to hear better, not changing the way our mix sounds. It’s really useful especially if you don’t have a properly treated room, a good pair of studio monitor, or sub bass. FYI, their “Far” mode (the third monitor switch) is very very usefull if you are struggling with low and sub frequencies. They literally translate those frequencies so that we can mix and adjust properly! Not affiliated with waves or Abbey Road Studios, but definitely recommend this plugin!
STEVEN WILSON IS THAT YOU?!
I had a bunch of plugins from Waves, and then they hit me with emails for update fees that were 100s of dollars. At the same time they were selling a bunch of the same plugins for a sale price that was 85% lower than what the updates would cost me. No respect for loyal customers.
Waves plugins still work just fine without the updates. You are not forced to update them.
Matthew Kerkhoff aye bruh just steal their shit to rub it in their faces haha the same shit happended to me. Honestly I have been enjoying my slate bundle more than all of my waves plugins 🤷🏻♂️ and their customer support is amazing compared to Waves.
that's totally right - and it's a convoluted system too. And you really have no guarantee of whether there is any innovation on your "update protected plugins" (some of the old interfaces such as the renaissance stuff could really use larger UI and maybe add some parallel mix knob or M/S processing, and the only one they did was the L2) - and everything stays the same while the chuck out completely "new" plugins that do the same..
Realraven2000 fuck storming area 51 let's all storm Waves HQ and a separate faction can hold Chris Lord Alge for ransom. WE DEMAND CHANGE.
@@realraven2000 then skip the update. You can use the stuff as long as you want. I agree that the WUP plans are often too expensive, but since I'm not forced to pay that, I don't care.
NOW YOU MUST MIX AND MASTER AN EASY PROJECT IN SPEAKERS AND IN HEADPHONES WITH THIS PLUGIN, TO COMPARE AND PROCLAIM THIS PLUGIN SNAKEOIL, without this experiment we can't say anything...
is the same when they say that MQA is the new technology that transforms audio into something much better than WAV, which has more definition and is the same sound that the artist listens in the studio .... These people forget that the audio is physical and not digital and does not depend on a codec to be better or not! That is you depend on your room, your monitors and your phone to be good or not .... Other than that, you can have the codec and interface you want, it will be just another device in the Rack and in the memory of the computer.
A good subject though... the use of headphones for "mixing" ... Would love to hear your views on crutches other companies offer... SPL phonitor with all the crossfeed settings, Sonarworks Reference for headphones etc etc...