The milling bit you used is quite large and causes high cutting forces. The machine could do better with a smaller 6 to 8mm diameter endmill. Also try roughing type endmills, they give less cutting forces. I think the machine could be perfectly capable of milling aluminium with good precision. You could reinforce it even more and add mass to it. Totally awesome project.
@@SharkyMoto Haha - if this video was any indication, it will be entertaining at the very least. I love checking the tram / nod, it's off by 10 thou, which is no bueno at all, "Meh, it's good enough for me", as every machinist dies inside...
I can so relate to your final comment. I work in wood, not metal, and my wife just doesn't get that it's not about HAVING the finished product it's about MAKING the finished product. I hear "what are you going to do with it?" all the time. The fun is in the journey, not reaching the destination. Good post. I usually enjoy your journeys.
this is what makes Matthias great, im sure plenty of people have thought of a weird project but he has the knowledge and skills to build things like a wooden milling machine.
A really nice thing about TH-cam is that even if the thing isn't necessarily cost effective in it's own right, the fact that you can make videos on it can still make it worthwhile.
@@matthiaswandel James Bruton comes to mind. He's basically just doing product development for nonexistent products. Which is awesome, since you rarely get to see that process for real products anymore.
You are learning the very hard way what machinists have known all along. Fun but barely functional for metal. I have been waiting for the day that you seriously take on metal working. You can do it man!!
Machinist here… you’re on the right track, but you’re in the danger zone where stuff breaks. you will need; - rigid spindle locking design - mill vise!!!!! (Vevor vises are good enough) - smaller endmill (3/8 or smaller) - no more than .01” stepdowns / stepovers - fly cutter (very low cutter load with one very pointy insert, so you can get away with a much larger cutting diameter than an endmill for facing operations) Also, steel is less forgiving than wood when opening up holes. Your pilot drilling will work great if the pilot is just slightly larger than the web of the final drill. Any larger and you will just introduce chatter and the drill will grab and possibly chip, dull prematurely, or break with that setup. Hope this helps, Ive stolen many of your woodworking tricks! Hehe
Ah, yes, danger of grabbing. But if my pilot hole is sligthly off, I imagine the larger drill will try to follow it? I have a project in mind where I have to drill some very straight holes.
I was surprised he didn't snap a bit when stuff let go. But I guess that machine is springy enough it saved him? On my mill it would have been kiss that bit goodbye.
You could always use this machine to center drill or spit the locations, then finish them off with your drill press too. Or maybe some careful peck drilling could help? Not sure about that one
@@matthiaswandel yes typically the following drill is at the mercy of the first. might look into a reamer to make sure the holes are straight. other option is to bore them, but im not sure that would go well with your machine. (never know until you try though)
@@matthiaswandel Wanna-be machinist here... I've heard that the best way to get accurately-located holes is to use a boring bar and if you want the holes to be accurately located AND accurately sized, you'll want to use a reamer after the boring bar. I'm assuming a boring bar will also produce very straight holes (as the boring bar will not follow the existing hole, unlike drills and reamers). I got this tip from the "That Lazy Machist" TH-cam channel - great channel! So, your best practice is probably to... spot drill > drill > bore > ream If you need to, pre-drilling seems like a fine option, with the caveat that I assume smaller bits are more likely to meander. Another option is to drill/plunge with a center-cutting endmill. I assume you'd get a pretty straight hole using an endmill, particularly if the hole has been predrilled. (Actually, center-cutting isn't necessary if it's predrilled.)
Of course you can do it. You can do anything, Mattias! You are such a talented man! And your videos, while at times way over my head, are always excellent!
@@matthiaswandel you can upload a video of paint drying and somehow make it interesting. But I love that you entertain yourself while entertaining us! And we all learn!
For me its always about trying to build it. Troubleshooting and improving is just so damn much fun. You can learn so much for future projects and also what to look for if you do decide to buy one. Another great video.
Saw a reel on FB with some foreign name attached to this machine. Hope they take it down, or at least give you the credit you deserve. Take care & stay safe.
Years ago, I bought plans for a bandsaw mill published by a hard working American. Later I bought updated plans for the same mill from some foreigner with their name on them.
As a machinist, watching you work this out has been really entertaining, glad you're on the right track. You should introduce some lubricant when you're cutting steel, it makes a major difference, especially when drilling.
I'm not a machinist by any means, but in looking at the measurements he's getting, I'd argue that this is already at least as accurate as any drill press that doesn't have a taper spindle that the Jacobs chuck sockets into. That's not to say it's as accurate as it could be, just better than the run of the mill drill presses that are on the market.
CNC machinist here. For steel you need 3 things: -sharp and hard end mill -stability on your machine -horsepower on your spindle If one will fail, the rest is gonna fail too. Try locking your work pice harder, add mass to it (cement will work like a charm) and use smaller cutter. It will take less power by turning it faster and feeding it slower Good luck brother
I'm doing a project like this as well!! But I'm not going to mill metal just wood. I'm using an router that I never used and building a milling base for it! Saw the idea on Pintrest and figured I could give that a try . So far so good. If it works out I'll upgrade in a year or two, with a tilt head abs maybe even cnc it. So funny I didn't find this video till now lol. But better late than never since you've given me new vigor to finish 😊well done!
I also value more the journey than the outcome. The journey for me is the satisfying experience. The final product, it works, but once you put it in place, it does its jon and that is about it, even if you interact with it on a daily basis.
The term mil is regularly used for 0.001" in the US. I was quite surprised when I discovered this a long time ago as it wants to confuse you with mm but it is a common use, here. I enjoy all the enlightenment from your investigations.
It’s not just TH-camrs, thou as in thousandths of an inch is common for all machinists in the USA. Mil is used when discussing thickness of fabrics, plastics, stickers, anything that’s flexible and very thin really.
"Regularly used" is a bit of a stretch. The average person on the street in the US would have no idea what "mil" means (well, they would be sure it meant millimeter), and it's not commonly used among machinists. It is used if you work in an industry with thin film plastics, or if you're an electrician talking about large conductors (500 kcmil). That's about it. Oh, and there is an identically named financial unit that refers to 0.1 cents ($0.001), which is used even less frequently and is mostly a curiosity for people who read dictionaries for un.
Back in 2008 you could never build cheaper than buy imports for most large tools. Consequently many of the tools I purchased I did so because they were so affordable (but never really got used). However... DAM now they appreciated in value almost 200%! Maybe I should have a garage sale.
You have just experienced the challenges of work holding on the milling machine. VERY important. You will get better work holding with a real milling machine vise. The piece of steel likely did not have parallel sides which adds to issues when milling. Use some piece of copper wire on the moveable jaw to take up any lack of parallel in the sides.
I’m a machinist a few thousands of runout isn’t going to matter much with a HSS endmill in mild steel. Especially if your machine isn’t very rigid and likes to chatter. Spindle speed is also important depending on the diameter of the cutter and the kind of material so two speeds might not give you good coverage. Also I suggest buying or making a few metal toe clamps for the vise so it doesn’t slide around. Metal cutting produces a lot of force so the wooden ones aren’t strong enough.
Haha, I had the exact opposite reaction when I saw this - I'm used to using smaller carbide tools in a CNC router, and even a little bit of runout or flex in the setup turns those tools into paperweights very quickly. Interesting to see a real machinist's take!
this is kinda the hard way to be machinist.. but love the evolution, been watching Mr. Wandel for over 10 years.. sooner or later, he will align his machine using homemade laser interferometry.
Ok, ich habe nicht ganz so viel verstanden, mehr nur die Bilder gesehen. Aber zuletzt ist mir wirklich ganz anders geworden! Auch beim hantieren an der noch laufenden Maschine! Also ich kann nur berichten das bei uns damals im Maschinen Raum mal ein Fräser geplatzt ist und das Teil ist ca 40 Meter durch den Raum geflogen und hat eine heftig tiefe Delle in der Stahltür hinterlassen! Aus dem Grunde würde ich Dir für weitere Experimente mit Fräsen, deutlich mehr Vorsicht anraten! Das Spannen mit Holz ist von vornherein viel zu schwach gewesen! Schraub den Schraubstock direkt auf der Platte fest! Nuten sind da ja vorhanden. Usw….. Ich finde es aber trotzdem toll was Du Dir immer wieder traust und ausprobierst! Schade das es garkeine Experimente mehr mit Mäusen gibt. Die fand ich immer wieder total lustig! Andererseits kann ich verstehen wenn man sie endlich los ist! 😉😁
This reminds me of some experiments converting our crappy drill press to a mill, which you actually inspired! I once saw you cut a dovetail way out of plywood (gibb and all. I dont remenber what is was for tho) and i tried to make a x-y table that way. I really like the "2.5D" manufacturing capability that stacking sheets of plywood gives you. Never got to steel, but i was quite impressed with what it could do in aluminium. In never used that setup for anything but the aluminium test piece still gives me a giggle when i come across it in "the bin". Later, i did use that drill press in a different setup to bore out some home-cast aluminium bearing blocks. Now these still work, although it would have been easier to buy a set. but like you said: its fun to see if you can do it.
Would be an interesting “experiment” if you were able to apply your lamination frame design ideas from your band saws to a “stiffer” frame for your mill.🤔😃
@@matthiaswandel Your knowledge and application of shear planes would go far in reducing the deflection you are seeing at the tool tip. Granted wood is not the best base material for a “miller” attempting to cut steel but your design so far is pretty decent considering!😃
One thing I've learned is that when I'm milling ferrous metals I really need to hold the work down. If you want to spend some more money get some link belt. But once you start using link belt then you want to use it everywhere. The stuff is just so cool. So be warned about that.
Now you could remake it from steel cast from concrete with rebar and lot of fibers to reinforce it Or use some granite pieces glued together using 2 part concrete glue (in tubes like silicone for screws) or epoxy (mixed with filler or something like jbweld, knockoffs etc) Could be great project for cheap To make every surface flat you could use piece of glass with some tape on it (or pva) and put some epoxy with filling material in it (so it stay in place and wont flow) on the glass (or frame) then place on top of an axis (should mirror the flatness of the glass to the frame) Or just pour epoxy on top of the frame to level itself like water .... This technique is popular for cheap big cnc machines (if done properly can go down to 0.02mm flatness)
Trying is what it is all about. It never hurts to try. The Chinese mini machines are likely not much better than what you are producing. So keep moving forward. Pretty good effort with a bunch of 2x4's. To become a good machinist takes years of trial and error to learn what works and what does not work. Like the drilling the 9mm hole in steel you have to start small with low power machines and drill bigger and bigger. Live and learn. Good stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😃
I noticed that a lot of those cuts where the piece or the vise came loose you were climb milling whoch is normally only used for powered feed, I think it would work much better with conventional milling and be less likely to grab and move the workpiece. Awesome project- I'd love to see a power feed for it!
You can probably find a mini mill used for cheap as they have a few issues. Circuit boards and plastic gears are an issue. The screw adjust for table is also not an acme thread but regular. For circuit boards it is usually two scrs. Gears are available from time to time on Amazon.
1:45 Is that blue wrench made out of wood? 🤔💕 PS- I was wondering why you were building this mill, thanks for explaining why there at the end 😄💕👍 Great work on this one, I loved your frustrations with the vice and other things shifting around lol
if you have a square tool in the spindle of the mill lined up with x or y axis you can plunge the spindle to cut keyways. just an idea, typically in steel you would take about 0.0015" depth of cut per pass. im sure in wood you could get away with 0.010". how you get some of the things you do to work amazes me lol.
I wonder how the metrics of this compare to the one about the mini lathe. My thinking is that the lathe might have alienated some viewers due to it being bought/machining, but you built this so it's free game. Even with all the play/lack of rigidity, it seemed to face up that piece of steel pretty well all things considered. I don't think most mini mills could have done that
a rack and pinion drive for the vertical axis might help with force, but then again that might just identify new weak spot to fix. Even if you don't buy a mill for your needs, you might want to go visit a showroom or tour a metal working shop and check out how they solved some of those rigidity problems... I mean we as humans have been work toward precision for a few hundred years, so it might be worth looking at how some others solved those issues. As another note, without this machine, you might not have even know this issue existed, and it could give you an appreciation for how cheaply we can get those items today.
My endmills in an industrial 2ton milling machine: "I'm 2c out of round and you looked at me wrong. Goodbye" Matthias endmills: "go ahead plunge me straight into the poorly secured vise. I'll cut that metal for you. Me and the woods are frends. Break? I don't take breaks."
was working on one 20 years ago, but quite before I finished. Once I realized how much lead those planes spew into the atmosphere, I started rethinking the whole thing and decided perhaps its better to just leave it be.
It's a very cool machine, but i would not subject it to climb cutting--especially with a bit that large. It can transmit a lot of energy into the table and cause some damage. I damaged a full size manual Bridgeport while climb cutting once. They just don't have the right kind of feed screw to protect against damage.
Now add some steppers with and a arudino running grbl on it! Probably also want to stiffen it up quite a bit with some more wood or steel. I've built a CNC that works great to machine aluminum doing that.
Metal milling with a wooden machine :-) It went better than I expected but, for metal, three things are paramount: rigidity, rigidity and rigidity (so I was told by an old machinist, eons ago).
Pretty crazy to simply do this because you can. Well played. Your runout at the spindle is likely from your collets themselves if the bt30 taper in the chinese spindle indicates fine. I have similar issues with my low buck er collets over using my southbend r8's in my r8 spindle.
Tightening and having an idler pulley on the drivebelt should reduce the sloppyness and shaking a little at least. As every time the cutter starts on a new edge it will have more tension on the belt aand slow down or stop uintill the belt is tight enough and it starts cutting again but now from a stop, and this can cause heavy vibration. Also having a heavier flywheel on the top to keep a more constant speed would also help
Yep, you reached my conclusion: I could bootstrap a milling machine, but it would end up costing more than a commercially produced one. I'd get exactly what I wanted, sure, but I certainly wouldn't be saving any money.
I wonder if a wooden surface grinder would be more fun. Much lower forces involved aside from a well balanced wheel. I'm sure you could manage a high degree of repeatability.
The colet nut eccentric thing inside is ok, it should be like this is just a shoulder what holds in place the collet after pressed in an can be easily popped out
I watch many machinist channels and this really was a painful watch! I admire the creativity though and it’s impressive you got this far. You might want to try some cutting fluid!
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“I just wanted to see if I could do it.” The reason I watch this channel👍🏻
Was going to type this exact thing, and found this as the first comment.
@@onesixfive exactly!
1:42 is why I love it: “I'd been using it all wrong”. It's too rare that we see mistakes, and anyone taking responsibility for something not working.
Do you think he realizes how gay he is
That's a thesis of this channel.
The milling bit you used is quite large and causes high cutting forces. The machine could do better with a smaller 6 to 8mm diameter endmill. Also try roughing type endmills, they give less cutting forces.
I think the machine could be perfectly capable of milling aluminium with good precision. You could reinforce it even more and add mass to it. Totally awesome project.
Higher spindle speed will also reduce the forces
hey, a new ThisOldMatthias video!
i'm eagerly waiting for the wooden surface grinder
@@SharkyMoto Haha - if this video was any indication, it will be entertaining at the very least. I love checking the tram / nod, it's off by 10 thou, which is no bueno at all, "Meh, it's good enough for me", as every machinist dies inside...
"My vice is not attached well enough!" (grabs a corner and moves it back into position by hand) (keeps milling)
You're the best kind of outrageous.
Love switching from an Inheritance Machining video to Matthias video about wooden milling machine 😂
Definitely not the same caliber of machining!
@@matthiaswandel yeah but more than makes up for it with enthusiasm and curiosity
@@matthiaswandel yet
Right, straight from making metal dovetails, to milling metal with a wooden mill, haha! :D
❤ love the “yet”
I already own a mini-mill, but watching this project has potentially given me several ideas which will find their way into other projects.
I can so relate to your final comment. I work in wood, not metal, and my wife just doesn't get that it's not about HAVING the finished product it's about MAKING the finished product. I hear "what are you going to do with it?" all the time.
The fun is in the journey, not reaching the destination.
Good post. I usually enjoy your journeys.
Yup, I restore old cars, and it's the same thing. It's about the journey, not the destination.
They'll never understand! 😆
@@JonnyDIY😂
@ckm-mkc working on an OLD metal lathe, with the sme idea as you. A journey, a enjoyable one. Was a stonemason, now into a higher teck attempt.
this is what makes Matthias great, im sure plenty of people have thought of a weird project but he has the knowledge and skills to build things like a wooden milling machine.
A really nice thing about TH-cam is that even if the thing isn't necessarily cost effective in it's own right, the fact that you can make videos on it can still make it worthwhile.
Indeed. A lot of useless projects get created by lots of creators, especially if its silly enough to have potential to go viral.
@@matthiaswandel James Bruton comes to mind. He's basically just doing product development for nonexistent products. Which is awesome, since you rarely get to see that process for real products anymore.
You are learning the very hard way what machinists have known all along. Fun but barely functional for metal. I have been waiting for the day that you seriously take on metal working. You can do it man!!
True for steel. But taking a little off that pulley -- worked like a charm. It all depends on what material and how big a cut.
Machinist here… you’re on the right track, but you’re in the danger zone where stuff breaks. you will need;
- rigid spindle locking design
- mill vise!!!!! (Vevor vises are good enough)
- smaller endmill (3/8 or smaller)
- no more than .01” stepdowns / stepovers
- fly cutter (very low cutter load with one very pointy insert, so you can get away with a much larger cutting diameter than an endmill for facing operations)
Also, steel is less forgiving than wood when opening up holes. Your pilot drilling will work great if the pilot is just slightly larger than the web of the final drill. Any larger and you will just introduce chatter and the drill will grab and possibly chip, dull prematurely, or break with that setup. Hope this helps, Ive stolen many of your woodworking tricks! Hehe
Ah, yes, danger of grabbing. But if my pilot hole is sligthly off, I imagine the larger drill will try to follow it? I have a project in mind where I have to drill some very straight holes.
I was surprised he didn't snap a bit when stuff let go. But I guess that machine is springy enough it saved him? On my mill it would have been kiss that bit goodbye.
You could always use this machine to center drill or spit the locations, then finish them off with your drill press too. Or maybe some careful peck drilling could help? Not sure about that one
@@matthiaswandel yes typically the following drill is at the mercy of the first. might look into a reamer to make sure the holes are straight. other option is to bore them, but im not sure that would go well with your machine. (never know until you try though)
@@matthiaswandel Wanna-be machinist here...
I've heard that the best way to get accurately-located holes is to use a boring bar and if you want the holes to be accurately located AND accurately sized, you'll want to use a reamer after the boring bar. I'm assuming a boring bar will also produce very straight holes (as the boring bar will not follow the existing hole, unlike drills and reamers). I got this tip from the "That Lazy Machist" TH-cam channel - great channel!
So, your best practice is probably to...
spot drill > drill > bore > ream
If you need to, pre-drilling seems like a fine option, with the caveat that I assume smaller bits are more likely to meander.
Another option is to drill/plunge with a center-cutting endmill. I assume you'd get a pretty straight hole using an endmill, particularly if the hole has been predrilled. (Actually, center-cutting isn't necessary if it's predrilled.)
Of course you can do it. You can do anything, Mattias! You are such a talented man! And your videos, while at times way over my head, are always excellent!
Most fascinating and educational train wreck of a DIY build I have come across in a long time. Simply can´t stop watching!
Excellent. The "can't stop watching" is the part that matters :)
@@matthiaswandel Wasn`t meant as criticism: "Fail early, fail often!" is the mantra in my field of product development!
@@matthiaswandel you can upload a video of paint drying and somehow make it interesting. But I love that you entertain yourself while entertaining us! And we all learn!
@@matthiaswandel *AND* "having to write a comment about it". That is important too. ;-)
When you mentioned the collet was off-center I was so concerned you were just going to grind it off or something
Same, I remember when AvE did that.
Awesome! I consume a lot of machining content but I am a woodworker by trade. I love the overlap and what you bring to the discussion. Keep em coming!
For me its always about trying to build it. Troubleshooting and improving is just so damn much fun. You can learn so much for future projects and also what to look for if you do decide to buy one. Another great video.
You have the true inventor's spirit. Great content as always.
It's a good day when you get a notification for a Matthias Wandel video and its about making a homemade machine! You always inspire me.
Saw a reel on FB with some foreign name attached to this machine. Hope they take it down, or at least give you the credit you deserve. Take care & stay safe.
Years ago, I bought plans for a bandsaw mill published by a hard working American. Later I bought updated plans for the same mill from some foreigner with their name on them.
As a machinist, watching you work this out has been really entertaining, glad you're on the right track. You should introduce some lubricant when you're cutting steel, it makes a major difference, especially when drilling.
And sometimes the journey is more important than the destination. I really am enjoying this return to form.
Yup, my mantra in life: It's more about the journey than it is the destination, although both matter. Nice job!
your milling quality is better than boeing
I have no doubt that you will make this work more accurately than any store bought drill press.
I'm not a machinist by any means, but in looking at the measurements he's getting, I'd argue that this is already at least as accurate as any drill press that doesn't have a taper spindle that the Jacobs chuck sockets into. That's not to say it's as accurate as it could be, just better than the run of the mill drill presses that are on the market.
CNC machinist here. For steel you need 3 things:
-sharp and hard end mill
-stability on your machine
-horsepower on your spindle
If one will fail, the rest is gonna fail too. Try locking your work pice harder, add mass to it (cement will work like a charm) and use smaller cutter. It will take less power by turning it faster and feeding it slower
Good luck brother
Building a mill out of wood has a similar feeling to building a bandsaw out of plastic. It's enjoyable to watch the effort.
you watching john heisz?
@@matthiaswandel yep, but I sure like watching you make various parts out of wood more than I like watching a 3d print bed run
I'm doing a project like this as well!! But I'm not going to mill metal just wood. I'm using an router that I never used and building a milling base for it! Saw the idea on Pintrest and figured I could give that a try . So far so good. If it works out I'll upgrade in a year or two, with a tilt head abs maybe even cnc it. So funny I didn't find this video till now lol. But better late than never since you've given me new vigor to finish 😊well done!
Wow Matthias, you pegged my OCD machinist meter. So much so I’ll just withhold my criticism. 😂
Makes a perfect steel grater, yet the challenge and troubleshooting are worth watching.
Yes, that is the Matthias I remember. Meny more videos like that one please.
I also value more the journey than the outcome. The journey for me is the satisfying experience. The final product, it works, but once you put it in place, it does its jon and that is about it, even if you interact with it on a daily basis.
The term mil is regularly used for 0.001" in the US. I was quite surprised when I discovered this a long time ago as it wants to confuse you with mm but it is a common use, here. I enjoy all the enlightenment from your investigations.
Thou is pretty much universal with youtube machinists. Mil seems more common in wet film thickness than with metal cutting.
It’s not just TH-camrs, thou as in thousandths of an inch is common for all machinists in the USA.
Mil is used when discussing thickness of fabrics, plastics, stickers, anything that’s flexible and very thin really.
"Regularly used" is a bit of a stretch. The average person on the street in the US would have no idea what "mil" means (well, they would be sure it meant millimeter), and it's not commonly used among machinists. It is used if you work in an industry with thin film plastics, or if you're an electrician talking about large conductors (500 kcmil). That's about it. Oh, and there is an identically named financial unit that refers to 0.1 cents ($0.001), which is used even less frequently and is mostly a curiosity for people who read dictionaries for un.
@@dennispope8160 "mil" for thousanth of an inch is also also used in the PCB design world :(
Back in 2008 you could never build cheaper than buy imports for most large tools. Consequently many of the tools I purchased I did so because they were so affordable (but never really got used). However... DAM now they appreciated in value almost 200%! Maybe I should have a garage sale.
I'm glad I'm subscribed, TH-cam has stopped recommending videos from either of your channels to me. Thanks for the video!
You have just experienced the challenges of work holding on the milling machine. VERY important. You will get better work holding with a real milling machine vise. The piece of steel likely did not have parallel sides which adds to issues when milling. Use some piece of copper wire on the moveable jaw to take up any lack of parallel in the sides.
I was impressed that you were able to cut steel at all. Call it a success.
I just love problem solving videos and machine building 😊
The video we’ve all been holding our breath for. Amazing!
That works way better than I thought it would, I bet with a few tweaks you could make some decent cuts in brass or aluminium with that machine.
This video gave me vicarious new tool energy.
I really enjoy watch all the cool things your doing.
dude that works crazy good for a wood mill!
I’m a machinist a few thousands of runout isn’t going to matter much with a HSS endmill in mild steel. Especially if your machine isn’t very rigid and likes to chatter. Spindle speed is also important depending on the diameter of the cutter and the kind of material so two speeds might not give you good coverage. Also I suggest buying or making a few metal toe clamps for the vise so it doesn’t slide around. Metal cutting produces a lot of force so the wooden ones aren’t strong enough.
Haha, I had the exact opposite reaction when I saw this - I'm used to using smaller carbide tools in a CNC router, and even a little bit of runout or flex in the setup turns those tools into paperweights very quickly. Interesting to see a real machinist's take!
@@tomtlrech1392 You can breath on a small carbide tool and it breaks lol
Building it is an educational process. Now you have an idea of what to look for in a production version if you were to ever go that route.
Another cool video, thanks Matthias!
this is kinda the hard way to be machinist.. but love the evolution, been watching Mr. Wandel for over 10 years.. sooner or later, he will align his machine using homemade laser interferometry.
gotta love how janky that is. Approved
ahh giving us machinists a heart attack, hurts to watch but cant stop either 😅😂
I’m really exited for you next series, wooden 5 axis cnc.
sometimes the journey is more interesting than the destination
Can't imagine you haven't seen it, but ThisOldTony has a great video on this exact issue, cheap tools just aren't worth it
Ok, ich habe nicht ganz so viel verstanden, mehr nur die Bilder gesehen.
Aber zuletzt ist mir wirklich ganz anders geworden!
Auch beim hantieren an der noch laufenden Maschine!
Also ich kann nur berichten das bei uns damals im Maschinen Raum mal ein Fräser geplatzt ist und das Teil ist ca 40 Meter durch den Raum geflogen und hat eine heftig tiefe Delle in der Stahltür hinterlassen!
Aus dem Grunde würde ich Dir für weitere Experimente mit Fräsen, deutlich mehr Vorsicht anraten!
Das Spannen mit Holz ist von vornherein viel zu schwach gewesen! Schraub den Schraubstock direkt auf der Platte fest! Nuten sind da ja vorhanden.
Usw…..
Ich finde es aber trotzdem toll was Du Dir immer wieder traust und ausprobierst!
Schade das es garkeine Experimente mehr mit Mäusen gibt.
Die fand ich immer wieder total lustig!
Andererseits kann ich verstehen wenn man sie endlich los ist! 😉😁
This reminds me of some experiments converting our crappy drill press to a mill, which you actually inspired! I once saw you cut a dovetail way out of plywood (gibb and all. I dont remenber what is was for tho) and i tried to make a x-y table that way. I really like the "2.5D" manufacturing capability that stacking sheets of plywood gives you. Never got to steel, but i was quite impressed with what it could do in aluminium. In never used that setup for anything but the aluminium test piece still gives me a giggle when i come across it in "the bin". Later, i did use that drill press in a different setup to bore out some home-cast aluminium bearing blocks. Now these still work, although it would have been easier to buy a set. but like you said: its fun to see if you can do it.
Your run out is probably the collet if your tool holder is running true. There are more precision ER collets. But of course they cost more.
This brings a smile and inspiration to my foolhardy ways
So the fun thing is that with some creative work holding, a lathe is basically a mill on its side. Granted the throat depth usually sucks.
Would be an interesting “experiment” if you were able to apply your lamination frame design ideas from your band saws to a “stiffer” frame for your mill.🤔😃
Indeed. Measuring deflections, most of the "give" when I push on the drill bit is flex in the frame.
@@matthiaswandel Your knowledge and application of shear planes would go far in reducing the deflection you are seeing at the tool tip. Granted wood is not the best base material for a “miller” attempting to cut steel but your design so far is pretty decent considering!😃
One thing I've learned is that when I'm milling ferrous metals I really need to hold the work down. If you want to spend some more money get some link belt. But once you start using link belt then you want to use it everywhere. The stuff is just so cool. So be warned about that.
had it in my table saw, eventually got rid of it cause I was tired of the whine from it.
@@matthiaswandel I've never noticed a whine. I have two different kinds too.
Now you could remake it from steel
cast from concrete with rebar and lot of fibers to reinforce it
Or use some granite pieces glued together using 2 part concrete glue (in tubes like silicone for screws) or epoxy (mixed with filler or something like jbweld, knockoffs etc)
Could be great project for cheap
To make every surface flat you could use piece of glass with some tape on it (or pva) and put some epoxy with filling material in it (so it stay in place and wont flow) on the glass (or frame) then place on top of an axis (should mirror the flatness of the glass to the frame)
Or just pour epoxy on top of the frame to level itself like water .... This technique is popular for cheap big cnc machines (if done properly can go down to 0.02mm flatness)
Have you seen the Dave Gingery books ? Homebuilt machine tools starting with a metal lathe. Right up your alley. A one of a kind
Trying is what it is all about. It never hurts to try. The Chinese mini machines are likely not much better than what you are producing. So keep moving forward. Pretty good effort with a bunch of 2x4's. To become a good machinist takes years of trial and error to learn what works and what does not work. Like the drilling the 9mm hole in steel you have to start small with low power machines and drill bigger and bigger. Live and learn. Good stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😃
"we didnt do it because it was easy, we did it because we thought it was easy"
I noticed that a lot of those cuts where the piece or the vise came loose you were climb milling whoch is normally only used for powered feed, I think it would work much better with conventional milling and be less likely to grab and move the workpiece.
Awesome project- I'd love to see a power feed for it!
I'm looking forward to ToT using exactly the same footage for a Halloween special.
You can probably find a mini mill used for cheap as they have a few issues. Circuit boards and plastic gears are an issue. The screw adjust for table is also not an acme thread but regular. For circuit boards it is usually two scrs. Gears are available from time to time on Amazon.
whenever I look at used stuff for sale, they ask at least as much as the stuff costs new.
@@matthiaswandel interesting as if something is used they shouldn’t be asking more than 60% of new or the current professionally appraised value.
1:45 Is that blue wrench made out of wood? 🤔💕
PS- I was wondering why you were building this mill, thanks for explaining why there at the end 😄💕👍 Great work on this one, I loved your frustrations with the vice and other things shifting around lol
Yes, made of wood. but is been pointed out to me that these collet nuts need to go on really tight, so may not be adequate.
@@matthiaswandel cool yeah I imagine they need to go on pretty tight with all the different directions of force it experiences and vibrations
When drilling the pilot hole should be just smaller than the web of next higher twist drill in machining.
It's all about the build. For us that's a good thing
Fantastic work, Matthias! 😃
But buying a mini mill? Where's the fun in it?
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
if you have a square tool in the spindle of the mill lined up with x or y axis you can plunge the spindle to cut keyways. just an idea, typically in steel you would take about 0.0015" depth of cut per pass. im sure in wood you could get away with 0.010". how you get some of the things you do to work amazes me lol.
Another useful alternative is the type of mill that attaches to your mini lathe.
I wonder how the metrics of this compare to the one about the mini lathe. My thinking is that the lathe might have alienated some viewers due to it being bought/machining, but you built this so it's free game.
Even with all the play/lack of rigidity, it seemed to face up that piece of steel pretty well all things considered. I don't think most mini mills could have done that
I think that facing cut worked so weel because with the twsted flutes on that endmill, I had continuous cutting contact, so much less vibration
Cutting fluid really helps, getting your work secured and with cutting fluid, you'll be away with it :)
This was a great project!
Besides downwards force the thing that is lacking is mass to prevent vibrations. I guess Keith from Vintage Machinery would not be happy lol
its already too heavy. Can't lift it like my metal lathe.
Badass move Matthias.
On my ER11 collet I bought a lot of the nuts so that each collet has it's own nut and I don't have to take the collet out of the nut each time.
Great idea, those collet are annoying to get in and out of the nut. Just ordered 3 more ER20 collets.
I’m a machinist and this is like nails on a chalkboard ! Nice effort though 👍
Welcome to metal😊
a rack and pinion drive for the vertical axis might help with force, but then again that might just identify new weak spot to fix. Even if you don't buy a mill for your needs, you might want to go visit a showroom or tour a metal working shop and check out how they solved some of those rigidity problems... I mean we as humans have been work toward precision for a few hundred years, so it might be worth looking at how some others solved those issues. As another note, without this machine, you might not have even know this issue existed, and it could give you an appreciation for how cheaply we can get those items today.
for my "needs". Problem is, what needs?
Abom would be proud 👍
you can also saw nicely a perfect round object on a general cirkley saw
My endmills in an industrial 2ton milling machine: "I'm 2c out of round and you looked at me wrong. Goodbye"
Matthias endmills: "go ahead plunge me straight into the poorly secured vise. I'll cut that metal for you. Me and the woods are frends. Break? I don't take breaks."
AH this guy 👨🔧🚀👨wonder if he ever asked his Wife if he could get a privet pilot license 🤔🤭🤣/ Love his video's 👍
was working on one 20 years ago, but quite before I finished. Once I realized how much lead those planes spew into the atmosphere, I started rethinking the whole thing and decided perhaps its better to just leave it be.
It's a very cool machine, but i would not subject it to climb cutting--especially with a bit that large.
It can transmit a lot of energy into the table and cause some damage. I damaged a full size manual Bridgeport while climb cutting once. They just don't have the right kind of feed screw to protect against damage.
Now add some steppers with and a arudino running grbl on it! Probably also want to stiffen it up quite a bit with some more wood or steel. I've built a CNC that works great to machine aluminum doing that.
Metal milling with a wooden machine :-) It went better than I expected but, for metal, three things are paramount: rigidity, rigidity and rigidity (so I was told by an old machinist, eons ago).
"Why do we do it? Because we can!" :D
I think it's pretty common practice in steel to do a pilot hole, then an undersized hole, then the final hole.
"why did you do it?"
"just cuz"
Watching this as a machinist: Whoa nelly, that's a lot of chatter.
Matthias: Wow that worked way better than I thought it would.
You might want a screw feed for the height - that way you can stop it at certain depths and potentially use it to also to tap threads
Pretty crazy to simply do this because you can. Well played. Your runout at the spindle is likely from your collets themselves if the bt30 taper in the chinese spindle indicates fine. I have similar issues with my low buck er collets over using my southbend r8's in my r8 spindle.
Tightening and having an idler pulley on the drivebelt should reduce the sloppyness and shaking a little at least.
As every time the cutter starts on a new edge it will have more tension on the belt aand slow down or stop uintill the belt is tight enough and it starts cutting again but now from a stop, and this can cause heavy vibration.
Also having a heavier flywheel on the top to keep a more constant speed would also help
Yep, you reached my conclusion: I could bootstrap a milling machine, but it would end up costing more than a commercially produced one. I'd get exactly what I wanted, sure, but I certainly wouldn't be saving any money.
I wonder if a wooden surface grinder would be more fun. Much lower forces involved aside from a well balanced wheel. I'm sure you could manage a high degree of repeatability.
Except I don't have much of a need for a surface grinder
Thank god! Finally something interesting to watch!! Ty !
The colet nut eccentric thing inside is ok, it should be like this is just a shoulder what holds in place the collet after pressed in an can be easily popped out
I watch many machinist channels and this really was a painful watch! I admire the creativity though and it’s impressive you got this far. You might want to try some cutting fluid!
seeing if you can do something is super inspirational