for mobile phones will be game changer, atm since they're slick in design they face quite a lot of thermal throttling (the gaming phones are chunkier and have better cooling)
Half the video one question was on my mind. How much heat can it pump? 10W is nothing. this is currently near useless technology. We'll see if it improves but right now, useless for most computers. More expensive and likely about as effective as just pumping it into the chassis of the laptop, or just using a passive radiator in a pc with some airflow
There are so many problems with this technology and i will tell you why it is : 1. Dust, dust, you cant clean this silent boy enough to be effective over period of time. 2. Price. is much moore expensive to produce and use... 3.Power consumption and Noise. Its loud and power hungry.
@@Renovatio2142 1st and 3rd point is wrong. noise is non existent, normal fans in gaming laptops use 3W of power, laptops in the high end use much powerful fans and more of them too, ROG and alienware have 4 fans in premium models. 2) price is a issue because effficiency is low, you'll need many of these chips in a typical gaming laptop which makes them expensive. if efficiency of a single chip can be increased to 20-25W then we truly have a revolution.
@@manojpatra2840 and about that dust!?, You forget to write how do you want to solve the dust problem... And noise its a problem because always when you move air in high speed or around a obstacle you will hear it...There is no other way...
As a mech. engineer I've really enjoyed listening to a knowledgable man on topic. Usually most start-ups are clueless idiots who oversell to get more money from sponsors, this man isn't that. Looking forward to his invention and designs to mature and find their way to consumer devices.
Agree, but he needs to get a bit better at using more common terms. Back pressure vs static pressure, for example. Seems like applying something like what we saw with the initial jets on water cooler cold plates, but obviously with a much more complex pumping mechanism. I think it would be interesting to see this applied to desktops and larger cards someday.
Interested but a bit flummuxed by going after the laptop market -- maybe it is just for the lower TDP. It would seem to make more sense in the server / workstation market where thermal management is such a pain. I could see a line of NVIDIA A100 on this.
I'm not all the way through the video yet, but at 5:55 he mentions being able to cover it with a dust filter that's stronger than what you can put on a notebook fan so that's promising at least.
I think the problem is less dust build up and moreso mechanical and material fatigue because the thing is constantly vibrating at possibly a rate higher than fans. Vibration can help with resisting dust build up. I'm not sure your motherboards or CPU's go through extensive "rub testing".
@@stephenlim7564 you're right, I was only addressing the resistance to dust buildup part of the comment I replied to. It will be interesting to see the lifetime durability of these things considering they will be vibrating constantly. Considering they're quieter than a standard fan are the vibrations they produce simply ultrasonic? It's a good question you bring up regarding how/if they'll interact with the other computer parts from a physical/mechanical standpoint outside of the active cooling.
@@HildeTheOkayish I can't imagine what their long term plans are, but my initial thought was that it would probably be easier to replace a filter on an enclosure than to get dust out of the device itself.
Easily the most impressive product out of CES this year!!! I hope this startup gets far with this technology. The applications for this are outstanding!
IF it can live up to the claims. This is not just good for cooling. It might have propulsion applications... how about in a drone? And if it can scale... why not rockets, jets, or cars? Lots of potential applications.
@@howardkong8927 According to the video these are more efficient than fans. But efficiency is not the only factor. A less efficient system is still able to displace more thermal energy than a more efficient one simply because its "capacity" is greater. That is why I was wondering if this can scale. Can building a bigger solid state heat sink produce more capacity? If it can... he said the output was 200 km/h. That is plenty of thrust to suspend "light" objects in the air. It might be enough force to rotate a blade fast enough to produce the force necessary for lift. But I don't know... which is why I am wondering. If you watch the video they have the thing turning a fan. So It just got me thinking is all.
Not of the year my friend, of the CENTURY! The application of this technology is insane. Think of all the smartphones that are going to come out with more performance due to this technology. The gaming phones from Asus or Lenovo able to be thin, quiet, and insanely powerful because of this (RAZER phone comeback maybe) new tech. First Gen gaming laptops with this technology will be accompanied by vapor chambers and this tech with fans. Think how silent it would be. idle temperatures of running laptops today will be the new performance temps. Imagine being look down upon because your fans are even remotely audible in a quiet library setting. I am not going to touch on desktops since it is a stationary object with no problems in cooling. But Smartphones, Laptops? Exciting stuff for sure!
This could be used for VR integration to simulate the movement of air in environments without having to deal with the noise of fan/mechanical devices. Would be amazing for a variety of things especially if you scale this chip up to the size of a box fan.
Also for cooling the headset processor. Current headsets COULD be more powerful, but they would need to add fans. Almost all headsets are passively cooled because fans on the face were tried, but were too unpleasant (from noise, weight, size, and vibration standpoints). This could really allow for a jump in processor power.
Finally a creator and owner that's knowledgeable and produces something of actual substance! We need more like him in the world. The technology is amazing! I'm really looking forward to using this.
@lucas Rem did you watch the video? It has a demonstration in it. As for "if we need it"? Yes. Ever have a fan so loud zoom your other people heard it? Quieter is better. Also, the amount of cooling is far superior here. Did you watch the video?!
It's a very cool invention, but this salesman keeps calling it the "world's first solid state active cooling chip," which any good engineer will tell you is false. Thermoelectric cooling chips (peltier type) have been on the market for decades. They don't work by shifting air though, they are solid state heat pumps.
@Daniel Kos I'm not familiar with that many solid state cooler chips? News to me. Would you be against referencing some? Also, my point was.. he's sure better than Steve Jobs and Elizabeth Homes. He's producing stuff, not stealing and making Vaporware. Seems that way anyways.
@@davetindell4110 It was a technical nit-pick of mine, doesn't diminish how cool this idea is. This company seems to be using piezoelectric crystals to "pump" the air in a similar way to how the print head in an inkjet printer uses piezoelectric crystals to pump ink. iirc GE announced a similar product with a vibrating diaphragm in a "chip" form factor a few years back but it never hit the market. As for peltiers, you can find them on eBay and they have been used for specialised chip cooling for a long time: but they have some serious drawbacks, e.g. producing a lot of waste heat of their own where often you then need a secondary way to get rid of *that* heat. They are often found in specialised scientific instruments where things like CCD sensor chips have to be kept very cold, but not very practical or efficient for gaming PCs. But they're interesting in their own right and they technically come under "solid state active cooling" which was the nitpick I had.
I think this could be effective, but the main problem is the shear amount of moving parts. It will be difficult to create something effective with this level of complexity.
@@alifelessrock48 What moving parts? This is a compliant mechanism like the accelerometer or the microphone on your phone, never seen one break. The manufacturing is a mems process, the device is manufactured fully assembles with no human intervention. My concerns are about dust.
@@paulodpereira Same, thats the only hindrance if a big dust ball gets sucked in and stuck. As for "moving thermal mass" ,since the speed of the jet is so high the mass flow is probably high enough, and if not you could use more and spread em out. Idk what they said about power consumption in comparison to a fan that can cool as well, that would be interesting.
That (Peltier Device) was exactly what I expected as well. The down-sides of Peltier devices are too much, there are reasons why we don't have them cooling computers already. Instead we see a totally novel design concept. I hope that this goes mainstream and turns out to be more reliable than fan based cooling solutions and successfully scales to 1000W or more and can replace cooling for Desktop CPUs, GPUs and PSUs.
id love to see a peltier pad running cold on the bottom copper plate of this thing. but like every startup. theres so much bullshit they speak and promote its like shopping on ebay. Ie 10000000watt flashlight that runs on a single 1.5v battery and lasts 300 years.... when you know its a .5w flashlight that will last maybe 6 months if your lucky.
Man, I love Gordon... I've been building PC's since I was 9 yrs old with my dad, roughly 1985, and really into PC gaming around the Quake days (1996-ish), Gordon was a staple in PC tech news. Here I am in my mid 40's and Gordon still being here with us, introducing us to new products and innovation in computing is a comfort, he reminds me of everything I loved about computers, bringing back fond memories of excitement, which is rare given that I've spent the last 25+ years working in and around Enterprise IT, and that coupled with modern social media and modern game trends (unfinished games launched to support DLC, loot boxes, P2W, gambling, etc), much of the enjoyment of computing and gaming has been ruined for me, and the internet has been completely ruined. I wish that anyone 30 and under could go back in time and experience PC community, gaming and the internet of the late 90's, before it was all tainted and destroyed by money grubbing, clout chasing and censorship, it was pure.
I was there, first our Sharp MZ-800, Sinclair, later then intel 386 and Doom 1 on home RJ-45's networks with friends and 5-7years after that hardware-networking big companies property to ready those for the new thing....structural networks and then with internet. I left this field in 2003. Tired of it, ready for smt new.
@@lrodriguezvideo he understands basics of thermals. He's not a cooling expert, and he's been disconnected form the enthusiast space for a few years, which have also been the years where we've learned the most and seen the most innovation about high performance PC thermals and cooling solutions.
For me, "modern gaming" is being able to play Unreal Tournament 99 in Linux Mint @4K resolution with updated 4K textures...with my newly built Z97 i7 5775C with its Iris Pro HD6200 iGPU at over 120 fps. PC case is Streacom BC1 V2 open bench table and totally fanless, even CPU is passively cooled. Today's games suck; you are correct about that.
Wow, this is definitely the coolest thing demo'd at CES - let's hope they really can deliver on those promises. Super-thin and quiet cooling? Brilliant for ultralights.
My worry is that it won't be able to do anything to match the sheer volume of air that a fan can push. At this size, it does seem to fill a niche. This is a realm where fans just don't function well and this thing has a clear advantage. But I can't imagine it scaling up well at all vs fans. They just need to find enough business in that super-thin-n-light territory where CEOs keep asking for the impossible.
@@pirojfmifhghek566 they don't have to because they are much more efficient. That said, your point is still valid because they can't just increase thickness to push more air, though I am sure there are ways around it.
@@zainoferd7852 I guess it's sucking air from smaller holes, which if I think about it is even worse. Dust could get stuck inside quite badly, and can make it useless pretty fast. Someone explain me how this might be dust-proof.
@@FLevi-pi5vt there could be different possibilities, but the more straigthforward is that there is an insane amout of pressure. There is no way the dust can collect in it
Even the Dyson blade-less fan has a fan beneath it. This is the first time I'm seeing air being pushed without a fan. It's a game changer for sure. Hope to buy a laptop soon with this.
I've seen very large fanless air-moving devices. They're not micro-scale, but if you want to see one on TH-cam, @DIYPerks made one (his "breathing" PC)
This is the most innovative mechanical device I have seen in years. I would think it could bring solutions to packaging devices we haven't seen before. Nice job!
A ton of things still use fans. It could revolutionize a whole lot more than just PC cooling. Aircraft, Heat blowers, Drones, Air conditioners, Ventilation systems, Portable fans, Refrigerators, Ovens , Dryers, ...
@@4nlimited3dition_4n3d I imagine it would be a pain to scale up to make larger modules to get the flow volume required for most of those applications. Maybe you could by just stacking them though. I would definitely like to play with one on my 3D printer as a part cooling solution though!
@@widgity Yeah, I did a bit more reading about it and seems that the efficiency side in terms of actual air moved per watt is not much different from normal fans. The size, weight, noise, durability and safety definitely are though.
I specialized in thermal and fluid simulation in college and this bad boy sounds like it will be amazing for thermal transfer with lots of room for future development by changing the surface geometry of the heat spreader. This has me excited
Another TEC (Peltier element) shown as the greatest miracle of mombo jumbo science. Meh, just skip it bs for another stupid CEO who wants to put some money into another CASH IN CASH OUT BRO DOWN PROFFIT stratup
@@StinkPickle4000 it moves dirt at the intake to guarantee planned obsolescence, they said you can put a filter but that will only guarantee you have to buy a new filter every week to substitute the old.
This is absolutely huge. Way bigger than any of the tech most companies are showing at CES. A new cooling solution could be absolutely *revolutionary* for both new and existing form factors, along with electronics longevity and performance.
anyone with basic know how in cooling can see this product is not viable at all... yet. power efficiency is abysmal. It's all that matters for portable devices, this will literally cut your gaming time by 30% on a gaming laptop. It needs an order of magnitude improved efficiency to be revolutionary.
@@Cypeq it's a first Gen product as they mentioned.. And looking at the specs it seems to use about 5w, compared to around 0.5-1.5 watts for a regular laptop fan. If the perfmance is better and can allow for more powerful devices to be smaller/quieter it may be a good trade off. The amount of space saved could be converted to battery space for instance to offset the power usage. Also if you're using a device meant for heavier tasks like gaming or CAD or Google Chrome tabs (jokes) you likely have the device plugged in as the battery probably wouldn't last long anyway.
@@Cypeq In a phone maybe I can agree with you, but on a Gaming laptop I disagree with your opinion, I haven't finished watching the video, but if this tech can regulate its performance like a fan (low speed and high speed) then there will be no issues and even if not, I don't see that much problem, almost no one plays on a gaming laptop without being plug in
@@rolandotula6951 Its basically replacing cheap fan that can be laud if small, with probably far more expensive solid state alternative that eats 10 times the power to cool the same thing but supposedly makes less noise. Supposedly has enough suck/pressure to work with good dust filters, which should make devices far less maintenance needy compared to classic fans, but with how its made I am not sure it can last for 10+ years like normal fans. Looking at it - it wont save space either, at least in high power situations, so can't really "fix" power usage with bigger battery. If they manage to bring efficiency high up, and also make that thing last years - it will be revolutionary, otherwise I feel like classic fans/water colling on high power, and passive calculated cooling for low power will simply win.
As a person currently working on a silent, but ultra small form factor build, I can see this working in conjunction with my noctua fans. Getting heat out of tight spaces so my high volume fans can shunt it out the right gaps is a huge challenge for me, especially the smallest fans I can get still measure at 10mm in height. It's all about use case. And in a PC build, the best solution is a hybrid one. And for all the pp measuring people who say that "silent" and "small" builds mean a cut in performance, consider that having a 0 decibel RTX3070 noctua inside a Fractal Ridge is also an interesting challenge.
I'm interested to see if Apple will opt to use this on their laptops to improve their thermals and noise levels, particularly for the Air models. Since it's so thin, it might even be viable for their iPad lineup. I wonder what the rated TDP is of each of their solutions. Edit: The mini does 5W and the Pro does 10W of heat dissipation, so this is really targeted almost exclusively to ultra-portable devices with low power chips. Still, it'll be interesting to see where they take this technology in the future. If they can manage to reach a 35+W heat dissipation then they'll open themselves up to a substantially larger market.
@@someoneinasia It is hype, this will be useless for today's desktop PCs, BUT it would be useful for some applications, notebooks, laptops, etc, this won't cut it to cool your 4090 or latest 13th / 14th gen Intel processor though - only problem I see with this is that it will generate more heat - it still takes a fan to exhaust heat, otherwise you are increasing your overall temperature.
I can only imagine that the first-gen tech won't be worth it for most use cases, but to see a firm _really_ developing such an innovation gives me a lot of hope for future development.
This would be fantastic for ultra light with iGPUs. Just think, Apple already has fanless M2 Airs. In the long run it could make desktop replacements much more portable. 2.8mm is absolutely tiny for the air that it can move.
I mean you can have two of this on a steam deck and let the CPU go from 15W to 20W, while getting silent cooling and getting more room for extra battery life.
If this is so revolutionary, that will probably happen but even then it won't be a problem as whatever company that owns it will have such an advantage over competitors, that they'll probably choose to either pay the patent to produce them or just buy them from that company ...just as the clients this man mentions are doing right now
@@ironheavenz tbh I only meant Apple. Other companies will sell the parts but Apple will hide it. Although the physics seems quite clear and correct, so a smart and competent group of engineers and lawyers will figure out how to do this without violating the patents.
This is one of those truly new products that took some innovation to make, and you can tell how excited he is to share it with the world. He's very well spoken and handled that pitch and interview so well. I'm happy for the company and thrilled for the future of thermals!
@@48956l imagine acting like pointing out that this Indian guy being well spoken in his very clear second/third language is somehow racist and not a legitimate compliment to acknowledge his accomplishment. Granted, I understand, you aren't well spoken in your first language, so naturally you would get pissed at someone complimenting someone else
I like how he spins the dust filter compatibility so positively. Based on the way he describes the mechanism, I bet if you get _any_ sizeable contaminants sucked into this "fan" it is going to be toast! A high-quality dust filter seems almost absolutely necessary for this type of cooler. Let's just hope the durability of this device can satisfy customer devices in the wild...
Indeed seems like it need to work in a "closed loop" sort of what water cooling does on desktop, and he mentioned it is capable of doing so because devices can be made dustproof and IP68 so nothing would prevent a sealed box of certain capacity to being made around the solid state cooling device to protect it from dust I think.
@@gabrielmaia5334 But if it only works well in a closed loop, then how is it any better than just heatpipes? Since all you're doing is transferring heat within the device itself.
@@FrostArchon Distribution of air around the device could go a long way toward avoiding hot spots, which is often a massive issue with passively cooled devices. This allows you to use the entire case as a heat sink by moving the hot air around inside.
Indeed it got me thinking.. Anyone who has opened up their laptops will surely know the amount of accumulated dust in the fan..time will decide and hope that is taken care off
Seshu is legit. I'm an electronics engineer by training and I understood what he's saying. It's a pity we didn't get to see the cutaway of the AirJet. Using MEM actuators to move air is just too cool! Would love to see how it works and he said it's how jet engines are cooled? Looks like I'd be spending a few nights researching on this topic!
I'm interested in the potential for using this technology to make active filtration masks without rotating fans, because that feature set; silent, thin, low power; is perfect for making powered wearable filtration systems.
Overall very impressed; while I do have some concerns about the longevity of the MEMS devices, as they have to be continually running for years, it does seem to have a lot of potential. Hopefully we'll see a version able to cool 100+ watts of TDP in a few years, so that it could be used in desktops, and mini PCs like NUCs and such. A quick breakdown of a couple of keywords, as they're kinda jargon: MEMS = Microelectromechanical systems; they are everywhere these days, though most notably in accelerometers, like the ones used to tell which way your phone is directed, or when an airbag should activate. Boundry layer = A thin layer of air that is moving much slower than everything above it, that kinda sticks to the surface; it's a major contributor to drag in aerodynamics. (I wasn't aware that it also hindered heat transfer, it absolutely makes sense.)
plus fans can fail I wonder how resistant this system is to dust and shocks, I have to personally control my laptop's gpu fan speed slowly raising it to 3/4k rpms (can take a while) before being able to set it to auto or its bearing will fail causing it screech. Asus had the bright idea to set the heatsink on both sides of the fan (for something that could be done leaving it on just one side of the fan, just like they did for the cpu fan*) so I would need to remove the entire heatsink, replace the thermal paste and pads to switch the fan which is not something I want to do as a beginner. sry for the rant, I should have just not dropped my phone on my laptop from just 5 cm above... *which asus actually did for other laptops of the same model/series...
- assuming that solid state active cooling actually beats other cooling methods in performance and price. You shouldn't assume it's going to be better, especially without any data or tests for comparison.
If this actually works well and they can scale up it could revolutionize more than just computing. Good job putting this up Gordon, like others have said this is probably the coolest thing I've seen come out of CES this year. Surprised they didn't get more coverage or win any innovation awards.
honestly? this could revolutionize phones and VR and so much more... make them far more powerful than they are already or just make them cooler overall.
Depends mostly on the price! $1 for a fan (at OEM sort of scales) or $25~$100 for this? Who knows what the cost is! But it's hopefully going to be competitive.
@@noxious89123 if his claims are true, I could save up some extra bills. Or wait until it matures and trickles down to the midrange segment. Great news anyway.
@@tyronenelson9124 I'd assume you clean or exchange them. Ideally the filters should be outside the case at the air intake or at least extractable for cleaning.
Innovation should always be celebrated, Good to see someone actually addressing this obvious problem that we all face everyday, All the best Seshu and the team,👍
Innovation should be *selectively* celebrated. In general, some ideas are just bad and some fail catastrophically. Solid State Active Cooling seems interesting, but the salesman never showed any data comparing its performance to conventional cooling methods, so we should remain vigilant.
@@razk2557 Those graphs only show the performance of one cooling method (Solid state cooling). Without data and graphs for *other* cooling methods to compare to SSC, the data for SSC doesn't actually give us much of value: Without the other cooling methods to compare, we have no idea if the SSC's results are better or worse in comparison to other cooling methods
When I look at their chips I instantly think about using those on M.2 SSDs. Those get extremely hot and there aren't very many ways to cool them off. I got a small fin stack with a 30mm fan on it which sort of works but having this chip to cool them would be awesome.
Very cool technology if it works as described. MEMS-scale components have a lot of potential, but will wait to see how this actually performs as far as performance and longevity before getting too excited. Interesting technology, regardless.
I guess that's the rub - competing with $1 rifle bearing fans from China that can run for 50,000 hours is going to be a big hurdle when this thing presumably costs way more.
@@Weaver_Games it should cost more, it's way better than fans. Silent at full blast, does not require vents bellow the laptop, thinner yet more powerful and will possibly outlast traditional fans. It is also the only hope intel has to remain competitive in the laptop space.
@@Weaver_Games You probably won't see this in budget laptops but for higher-end stuff, this is a game changer. When its reliable, I don't see why this wouldn't dominate the Ultrabook space, which is already quite expensive.
@@timlolxP much in the same vein of what you said, this probably won't see implementation for several more years, and it will UNDOUBTEDLY be installed in top-tier products when it does. OEMs are gonna need time to transfer these into schematics for builds. The "bleeding edge" factor is too interesting to everyone in the tech space for them NOT to be wickedly expensive, and the "silent" factor is going to be marketed as enthusiast-level components.
I was thinking high end videocards. We're starting to reach 500W 4-5 slot insanity levels, I can see something thin that can get lots of hot air out the back of the card theoretically working there.
@@arisindulens2008 man, if you could make 1-2 slot shrouds using this type of temp mitigation, imagine how QUIET a GPU could be... Saying that back made me shudder... Imagine how much board partners would charge, given the last few years of GPU pricing, with a fully active cooling 1-slot 20gb GPU that never sees 68C... it'd be $5000, easy.
This is incredible what they have been able to achieve as a startup! I really hope their technology goes mainstream, as cooling technology is currently at a plateau. Imagine having an ultra-thin notebook with power comparable to a desktop PC, while also being silent and cool to the touch.
i think a reason why no big company bought this tech is because it is to expensive for the company/end consumer or prone to breaking (ultra thin membranes that vibrates? how will it live in a low to medium dust environment?, what about humidity?, how will the noise change over use with all the gunk building up over normal use?)
@@gamervmid MBA m2 is not desktop level. Powerful for its size certainly, but not that powerful (for example, apples gpu graphs are misleading, they only show the gpu is more power efficient than a 3090, as the graph cuts off at the lowest end of wattage). In fact the M2 doesn't even have good thermal performance. The m1 was pretty exceptional for it, especially as it was passively cooled in the air. The m2 however runs much hotter, even the MBP struggles to keep it cool and thats not passive cooling.
This is amazing innovation. When you do Mechanical Engineering right, you introduce a significant step change in many applications. Kudos to Seshu Madhavapeddy.
@@StinkPickle4000 25 watt total but a good amount of that is passively dissipated - the screen for example. The SoC uses up to 15. With how much air this appears to move, the SoC could probably have one of these mounted on it and the exhaust airflow would handle passive cooling of the RAM and power IC. (The motherboard would have to be redesigned to accommodate this of course)
@@AFistfulOf4K LOL 'probably' without an actual product in your hands. At least say "should" otherwise it seems like you're chilling for a product for no reason! Perhaps you are paid by the company?
@@snakejuce Yeah. With miniscule updates and tweaks, just enough to make something new so they can basically re-sell you the same thing every year doing the bare minimum to maximize profits. That's more a lateral move than a vertical one.
@@audiogarden21 You ain't lying there bud. Def agree with you on that. Couple that with good ol' planned obsolescence and perceived obsolescence and you've got a good return customer basis. A nice collection of fangirls ready to throw their money at any product you produce 🤦♂🤡
This AirJet has me intrigued. It's basically a true bladeless fan, with no moving parts! I can't wait to see this scaled up. In the case of blower type GPU coolers for example, because you don't have to account for a blower fan you can either increase the length of the existing heatsink, or shorten the overall length of the add in board whilst breaking through the boundary layer to provide even more efficient & effective cooling. Assuming they can produce it at a competitive price, I'd imagine that this in conjunction with decent thermal interfaces could offer at or near water-cooled performance without the need for pumps, and the risk of leakage. Another place I can see this being useful is for case airflow. I can imagine a 120mm×360mm or 120×240 panel in the front of a case in place of traditional 120mm fans would provide quite a bit of airflow even at low power. Because of the pressure delta this technology can provide, it would be easy to integrate a clip on or magnetic filter that can easily be removed and cleaned. the velocity attained should provide better cooling for bay devices such as 3.5 inch hard drives, and because you no longer have fan hubs and frames to interfere with airflow it will have less turbulence. The fact that they're a fraction of the thickness of even a 15mm slimline fan, they have no moving parts, and can operate basically silently is just a bonus! Now that I think about it, I do hope they end up offering these as a fan substitute. Whilst I have no idea if this technology can provide the CFM of traditional fans, and perpendicular fin stacks may not be able to take advantage of boundary layer disruption, I can imagine that something like this as a 120×120 panel would have no problem blowing enough air through a 120mm tower cooler to keep your typical quadcore happy whilst keeping the minimal noise crowd happy. It might even improve the performance of some tower coolers as you can fully utilise the fins as opposed to missing fin area behind the fan hub and shroud
What it definitely doesn't have is rotating parts & this has me wondering if we're also seeing at a much better lifespan due to the lack of bearings wearing out or simply their grease drying out
@@unfairfair The thing that concerns me the most about the size of these 'chips' is dust ingress. Any level of dust going into that tiny space will clog it in a very short time, with 0 ability to remove it on the consumer level. If they're super cheap, replacing them sounds like the better method of cleaning. Peizoelectric pumps have already been used in both air and water pumping so the underlying tech is more mature than we know... it's exciting. But it could also end up like peilter coolers... a cool tech which is totally useless in real world situations.
@@Xorthis I immediately thought of, "It wouldn't take much dust to clog that thing" but he later said it was fully enclosed and dustless. I hope this works and becomes commonplace because I'm tired of noisy computers.
Damn, Mr. Madhavepeddy just gave a clinic on heat transfer. I learned a ton from this interview. I'd love to see where they go in terms of making a silent gaming laptop, and it'd also be great to see if it ends up working in the Desktop space as well.
As the guy said, the gaming laptops is somewhere in future of this technology. But what I see right now is that small boys could be used in high-end mobile devices (tablets, gaming phones) and in powerful networking devices (high-end routers, they heat a lot!). There's tons of applications of the current state of this technology even today!
i could see this being used as is on high end ddr5 and gen 5 nvme as for gpu and cpu with the tech as is it would require a custom heat pipe allowing the attachment of up to 10 or more of them but it could still work.
@@danwarb1 looks like you need to relearn how to read. I said in a few years fam, obviously the technology is in its early form, and it looks very promising.
I've seen mods of existing computers like a MacBook Air. where they replaced the current cooling with a thermal pad. If there is enough space and you would have to pull power somewhere it might work.
@@danwarb1 saying its less than half as efficient as a fan imply that you are doing a comparison of the current state of product, not what it can achieve.
@@danwarb1 and quieter and thinner and with less risk of dust buildup, and theoretically less failure problems, not sure what your point is. And they are apparently going to be part of the intel EVO spec now based on the article, so they cant be that bad. Also based on some (admittedly probably best case scenario) graphs they have, they shouldn't have the same problems with heatsink saturation reducing turbo clocks and time.
I have to say in 30 years of PC building, this is loooooooooooooong overdue, much like the transition from HDD to SSD getting rid of moving parts is always a good thing and if you can do so while getting better results well thats just great. Hopefully in time they will cost similar amounts to coolers today, I look forward to them.
Cooling fans are the only components in a pc and laptips that are not solid state. Fans are often the first component to fail. Replacing them with solid state cooling would do wonders for reliability.
@@StinkPickle4000 While you are in a sense correct that there is movement, there is a difference in mechanical terms between motion from oscillation, and actual mechanical movement, mechanical movement creates far more wear and tear on the items involved in that and usually requires vastly more maintenance of a given system using mechanical movement.
@@trucid2 Aye hopefully, I am genuinely looking forward to these especially for desktop and GPUI down the road. I mean can you imagine having a high end graphics card in your pc that was no thicker than the height of a capacitor and had no fans? been 30 years since that was the case.
Absolutely incredible. CEO Seshu Madhavapeddy seems like a really fun and humble guy too. I hope he stays that way when his genius invention inevitably becomes mainstream (if all his claims about performance and price are true). Huge respect. 🙌
@@fss1704 Seshu claims it has enough static pressure to be compatible with IP68 certified dustproof devices so if that's true, dust shouldn't be much of an issue.
@@Nayah9 lol, it can have the output pressure it wants but if you close the inlet all you have at the other side of the dust is less than 1 atmosphere of pressure, and that clogs. This will need a filter, a fine filter clogs very easily and reduces the input pressure.
@@fss1704 IP68 or not, if this thing pushes air out at 200km/h, I doubt any dust that enters the chip could stay there for very long due to the absolute storm that's going on inside. Only testing and time will tell I guess.
@@Nayah9 "pushes", not '"sucks", it can only suck 1 atmosphere of pressure at maximum before the inlet becomes vacuum, the gunk accumulates at the inlet, the only thing pushing air into the inlet is atmosferic pressure so that's a hard limit. Get a compressor and try to close the pressurized outlet, you can't because that's X amount of psi, now close the inlet with the finger and you'll see what i'm talking, vacuum and the atmosphere is the only stuff pushing your finger.
Brilliant invention! I remember seeing fan-free coolers using piezoelectric actuators in the past, but even those where chunky relative to these new slimmer MEMS units.
Probably the most interesting thing I saw come out of this year's CES. I hope they'll be able to make these chips within the same price range as a regular fan, otherwise this tech sounds like it's gonna be as expensive as the notebooks they're going in 🤣
I don't see how a mems chip that can remove many watts of heat could get as cheap as a fan. The factories that produce them are vastly more expensive for one thing, but then they maybe have the fastest manufacturing rate on the planet if you think of transistors per second, so you never know.
Agree 100% and strongly hope they will not prevent this tech to spread to old devices through new cooling solutions replacing fans! That they will license it if they wont be willing to target this segment directly.
If this works as described this would be revolutionary for PC handhelds. The Steam Deck operates at 15W and 6800U handhelds are going as high as 28W which is where he says is the max. I want to see this in PC handhelds next year if possible
@@DoubleMonoLRvery true, the real problem here is power efficiency. It’s only first gen so there’s definitely time, but by their own admission the small unit displaces 5 watts of heat while using up to 1 watt. Compare that to a standard computer fan which consumes 1-3 watts but can displace way more, and you see why the applications are super limited thus far. In a system trying to get the most out of a battery adding a more expensive cooling solution is rough. That being said it’s still really cool and just because it isn’t ready yet doesn’t mean it’ll never be.
@@LazarNaskov agreed. the efficiency is key here for sure. Would love to see a desktop version first targeting the SFF PC market. With a better power budget there, these could be a game changer, even if less efficient than a fan/heatsink.
@@DoubleMonoLR that's if you're going to cool the device strictly with these units, but device manufactures have been using hybrid methods for ages now. The Surface Pro 4 could dissipate half of its 22w heat load with a small copper pad that was under the screen and that was back in 2015. Similarly, you can still use the airflow of this to draw air through a heat sink.
Has anyone else noticed that when technology improves, it's usually in massive jumps as opposed to small steps? This tech wouldn't just need to make contact with the copper base, that kind of volume of air movement could potentially cool down entire tracks of components, provided the turbulence doesn't slow it down too much
This should win a CES award cuz so far this is the most high tech innovative thing. I can already see multiple uses for this like in OLED monitors so that you don't have to have a large heat sink.
Guys, sure I can see some problems right off the bat. Only 5W cooling in that size and a 20% increase in overall power consumption. Unknown factors, such as reliability, durability and cost in addition. Nonetheless, plastering the whole back of an OLED display with this, hopefully running it at less than full power, might solve problems OLED is having, e.g. full white display brightness. Who knows whether that would be cost efficient, but the thin form factor would be ideal for a display as it is for thin and light laptops.
@@cali_cal The same concept, not the same implementation, potentially a very big difference. I think it's pretty safe to say that jets already have a high airflow/pressure, so implementing jet impingement is presumably relatively easy(and much larger)
Investors invest in flashy, new ideas. But the reality is that there’s so much opportunity in innovating on traditional, wide-spread technologies. As someone who works in manufacturing-tech, this is awesome! Would love to see this startup shake up what’s often perceived as a traditional, played-out space
This is amazing. I would love a comparison data table showing the difference it makes. If this works as described here, they are about to change the history of computing.
What would be the life span of the vibrating layer and thus the chip itself? Because if it is pulsating with such speed, won't it get weared out pretty quickly?
@@GameTimeWhy You could probably use some sort of piezoelectric material for the flexible surface and 3D print the rest but I'm definitely not smart enough to do so 😂 The moving surface makes the aerodynamics very complicated. I most do space stuff anyways so this is a bit out of my scope
@@itseu the curse of being a specialist! Luckily I've never specialized in anything! Haha I know there isn't air in space but I wonder if these types of cooling/heat distribution concepts will have any impact on cooling in space. I've just read that cooling in space is a really big issue.
So it seems to me you could use a heat pipe/vapor chamber setup that ends with a big, flat piece of copper that you can mount like 4 or 6 or 8 of these things on in order to supply more cooling capacity for higher power processors, especially if you are dealing with a desktop CPU where you are much less limited on space. The fact that this breaks through the boundary layer of air makes me think that it would allow for much more efficient or much higher power cooling systems on desktops, even in its current generation which isn't really built for that purpose. Speaking of which, I wonder if end users could buy these things with a connector and/or adapter that lets it plug into a standard PWM fan connector, and either is directly controllable with that or an adapter is able to convert the PWM signal to whatever this thing takes as its control signal.
Exactly what I was thinking, this tech has a lot of potential to scale using heat pipes. I don't expect to see them available for end users to purchase any time soon, but I could be wrong. It just seems like this has it's best application in laptops and hand held devices. There is very little advantage to using this tech in a desktop vs traditional fans and would not be worth the additional cost.
I'm not 100% sure if I fully get the insides, but perhaps for desktop use they could increase the copper heatsink surface vertically to get more airflow and thus more cooling
I really hope this will scale up quickly and can move to higher wattage cooling, like desktops CPUs and GPUs. Maybe we can have the 2-slot or even 1-slot cards back.
This is pretty huge. I'm just imagining how much more power you can squeeze out of snapdragon chipsets with this. With powerful active cooling, you could release a quest 2 without having to change any hardware really, and get massive performance gains.
Sounds like some kind of piezioelectric die chamber. Breaking the boundary layer would indeed make it incredibly efficient. I have to say that the product sounds very innovative and effective. I can't wait to see it in the market.
@Karl with a K According to the article: "Because of the high back pressure, he said, the intake holes can be covered with an IP68 waterproof/dustproof material, allowing a laptop maker to prevent dust and other particles from coating the inside of a laptop."
I apologise for not knowing the interviewer, but that was definitely 1 of the best interviews I have heard in a long time. Every question asked, and it really helps that it was a great product to review, you can't help but imagine applications. Can't wait to see this product in the future
I thought the interviewer sucked personally. His head-shaking was the most annoying thing I've ever watched as he shook his head yes every two words that came out of the guy's mouth. It was as if he didn't understand a word the guy was saying but just shook his head yes the entire time. And to top it all off, he didn't even ask him how long his device lasts, which is the most important question that you could ask.
At first I thought this was going to be a more advanced peltier and not that interesting. But the technology he describes is extremely fascinating and smart. I hope this technology takes off and is able to improve and become mainstream even in desktop PC's.
Ditto. I saw "solid state active cooling" and thought "so, a peltier?" I scrolled past, but after a few seconds figured I'd give it a shot and watch the video first before condemning it. I'm glad I did! While I'm not going to go as far as many others to say "this will revolutionize cooling!!!" it does address the boundary layer issue in a creative way. Do I think it will be successful? Of course not, no proof of concept ever is, but this guy's trying something new and it's a path worth following at least a little to see where it goes. Why's he gotta diss fans as 100 year old tech, though? There's a ton of modern tech that goes into fan blade modeling even now.
Yeah, that is where I was at. Did the peltier thing back in the socket 7 days with mixed results and one burned motherboard. Ditched it after I saw the problems with certain situations were I did not want to put a client PC at risk.
Came to roll my eyes in front of another Peltier-like device, and am glad I did. This definitely looks interesting. Problem with Peltier is that they are used to either have a fine control over the temperature, or if used in cooling only act as heat pump, but don't help much in transferring the heat to another middle (air) very efficiently. So basically in a cooling system they would rather replace heatpipes, and also saturate quickly at higher heatflows because of back-conduction through the semiconductors. Looking forward to see where this tech leads.
@@zierlyn To be fair, he is specifically focusing on a single market. Plus, typical putting down the competition. My bet is that this will show up in extremely expensive Ultrabooks. He said it's commercially viable, but it very well be 100x the price of an equivalent ($0.50) fan. I know I'd buy it though.
it already has, for decades. it is used in industrial setting because of the lot higher pricepoint. if this guy can make it competeable cheap enough then he is onto something, but the technical concept is really old
Wow, in the past I read PC-World magazine, I didn't know they were on TH-cam until I found this video, I like the discussion of this revolutionary cooler, where the explanation is still with the characteristics of PC-World magazine.
how is 120mph air silent. Airflow has a sound. Curious to see the progress of these and some practical demonstrations as well as some larger versions for standard desktop cooling if that is possible.
1. expected cost per unit, or at least cost relative to current active laptop cpu coolers 2. durability. does it last longer if kept at a constant frequency, how many hours of on time, etc 3. ease of replacement. is this mounted to the heat producing components the same way as conventional coolers i know intel's allegedly working with this company, but i would like some honest ballparks for those three questions :)
Need to go directly on the CPU directly on top as you use this "jet-effect", so physics dictate to be onto the heat source to use the high velocity of the single air molecules.
Good questions. I also wonder: - how hot is the air that flows out of the device - can it be used with air cooling combined for cooling more powerfull processors - what if really hot part of the processor in on just small part of this plate. Wii it be able to take out the heat?
As a stickler for thermals on all my builds, this is super exciting. I've always just decided that I wouldn't worry about noise levels, or even dust collection that much, for the sake of maximum cooling. I just wear headphones and clean them every now and then. Being able to have a silent build that I don't have to clean and still manages to effectively cool all the components makes me giddy to think about.
Simple ventilation applications would be great for future versions of this too. I'm sure the people living on the ISS would appreciate some of these too. It seems pretty loud in there since the air needs recirculated constantly
I think this must be one of the coolest products of ces, I am really surprised that so few outlets covered this! I hope this will lead to some real innovation in cooling, the thing with huge coolers was kinda cool when we went from passive cooled gpu's, but now it is just getting ridiculous, like watercooling is almost more space efficient at this point!
This is not a new technology. LTT reviewed this a while back, and showed it's only useful in some niche industrial applications, but not so much in the applications this guy is suggesting like in a notebook. So yeah, I'm guessing that's why this is not exactly worldwide news.
@@Gamehighlight2023 VR/AR systems need to be lightweight and small to prevent head and neck strain. Small systems doing big graphics tend to get _very_ hot, and need cooling to compensate. This is why most of them have cables to the main graphics processor instead of putting it on the goggles. This video's cooling could allow more of that tech to be put into the goggles themselves, possibly going wireless (though bluetooth / wireless adds heat too)
I wonder; normally, when the computer fan dies, we know that the fan isn't working, because we don't hear its sound. How about this one? How do we know if it dies?
It's a gamechanger for the handheld gaming consoles, the focus on which is usually on power + lightness. So this device will eventually bring a lot of change to them.
This is super interesting and exciting. Can you imagine when this matures and you can apply it to high end gaming laptops? The performance may come much closer to their desktop counterparts. This is so amazing
@@j.a.3138 That's only a problem if those components aren't replaceable with new ones when they fail, or if the laptop owner becomes dissatisfied with the performance of those components. Very often, laptop owners don't care about having the best in class computing performance, because they just simply do not need that amount of power. I've seen laptop owners keep the same laptop for 10 years or more and not need anything new, only upgrading the hdd to a ssd, and perhaps adding/upgrading the memory sticks.
@@j.a.3138 There is the Framework company with modular laptops... I hope they can improve the modularity with this jet air technology and make it possible for the availability of modular graphic cards for laptop.
Fantastic invention. This is definitely Next Gen stuff. I'm also glad they discussed the wattage it consumes, which is very low. I hope they do very well for their accomplishment. Hope they are able to scale to service the massive demands of laptop manufacturers, or license out the design to leverage 3rd party manufacturing plants.
You're saying the wattage it consumes is low, but it really isn't if we consider that the mini one uses 1w to cool 5w, in these terms it's currently much less efficient than fans. Their current value proposition is thinness, quietness, and scalability + improvable technology, not power efficiency. But the technology is absolutely impressive and I can't wait for future generations of it!
@@CrowClouds 12700k has a base TDP of 125W, going up to 190W at max. Their bigger cooler model cools off 10W. So, unfortunately, even if this was available, you wouldn't put it on your CPU just yet. Let's give the technology some time though, it might get there. 👌
@@Segrey Actually, its on par with current laptop fans which consume between 0.5 and 1.5 W, and closer to the higher number when demand increases. Note also that he stated that the 1W value is the max for the solid state ones. Typically, it would be less since its efficiency is so high vs. standard fans with all their backflow issues. If they can get their prices to be competitive, look for these to be mass produced and be included in just about every future laptop made.
This presentation had so much more potential, especially from a fluid mechanics and engineering perspective. I’m sure in a few years, they make an amazing video explaining boundary layer flow, back pressures and other topics so people without the background can also understand!! Amazing technology!
This is actually brilliant. We'll see the issues that may arise, but conceptually, this is awesome. Wrapping my head around this: It's using the oscillating wave of the membrane to creates huge pressure differentials zones, then moves air down the x-axis, and expels it smoothly but with force due to the membranes whipping motion at the tail end/near outlet, almost like how dive fins generate force. It's pretty much a sine wave in a square syringe. Edit: Also, I wonder for extra thermal performance will they essentially make a mini radiator but each fin containing it's own membrane with the inlet on one side.
Yes, that's how I understand it too, as for the radiator part, not exactly sure want you mean. Do mean basically having a not-a-fan chip per hole in the radiator? If so, I imagine that because of the huge back pressure compared to normal fans, you might actually have the same layout as now (first the fan/frore chip and 'downwind' the radiator), but with way denser radiators because the back pressure might allow the air through anyway. In combination with what mr. Madhavapeddy said, the radiator might be a radiator-dust filter combo. And since more radiator fins = more cooling, that might allow even greater cooling potential :)
Issue: superhot exhaust air that will burn your skin! You almost have to mix in some cold air with a venturi or similar before pumping it outside the device. But seems to be an awesome technology.
Breakthrough technology. I see parallels with memory taking the silicon route and grow exponentially in capacity despite remaining the same size. Huge potential with the thermal system hooking to silicon. Best wishes to Frore systems.
By watching this video and getting to know about this airjet chip, I feel exactly like how people would have felt when they had come across desktop computer or internet for the first time. Engineering is amazing!!🤯🤯
haha true :) ... I was wondering "Wow! If this really comes to the market and becomes a successful product, I would be so damn happy that I've known about it already'
haha true :) ... I was wondering "Wow! If this really comes to the market and becomes a successful product, I would be so damn happy that I've known about it already'
The reveal that operation is silent took this product from awesome to "I'll believe it when I see it". Looking forward to seeing reviews of notebooks, etc. using it!
it will never get to a computer, it's a matter of 2-3days for it to get gunked up with dust, every time the guy goes "it's dust proof" the other changes subject because he knows it's not.
Air at 124 MPH is hardly silent even if the overall volume is low. For higher power devices air will need to be drawn from outside the chassis making dust a issue. Preventing implosion in the membranes also seems like a serious issue as materials stretch & fracture over time.
@@GrafTrahula If this design is blowing into a heatsink as they said. They have to maintain the air speed though the heatsink or convert into very high pressure, or the air would stall reversing flow though the membrane.
Really hoping this makes it to market and can be an affordable technology! If everything stated is true, this could be a real game-changer in miniaturizing cooling solutions. Very impressive.
Looks very promising. You could quite easily slap these on chipsets and other small chips as well (maybe ram if you have the space but I'm not sure). In fact depending on how effectively it sucks in air and expels it from an open space you could just use them to improve airflow in a case. All depending on the price and if it becomes available to general consumers of course. Hopefully we hear more from them and they don't vanish.
I wonder if the plan would be to just exhaust into the case/enclosure and then have a traditional case fan exhaust that heat. Seems like they would be pulling in warmer air though if you had multiple of these in one enclosure. We may be looking at a new PC form factor for the desktop with these in mind unless you have intake tubes to these for outside air. For video cards it would be easier because they can directly exhaust out the back like they do now, but you'd still want lower temp outside air than the warmer internal ambient temps.
@@robertherman58 I see liquid cooling with radiators designed around these chips. He talks about using vapor chambers with them, which is essentially passive liquid cooling. Lets you put them where they would best get or remove air, not on the components themselves.
I was going into this very sceptical, but if the price for this is right it can actually have a lot of applications. I would still expect this to mostly be used for laptops and over all small devices that are heavily limited by thermals.
If they ever manage to get it working with a desktop, expect that it will cover most of the backside of the motherboardand be paired up with some form of liquid cooling. A cellphone, tablet or low powered laptop might be able to use a chip like this if they can make it work, but much bigger than that is going to have issues with just how much air they can move past the chip and just how much heat the air can suck up.
The skeptic in me has a LOT of questions but I'll just start with the most important questions first : 1) What are the dangers of the device? There have to be some as it's essentially a compressor in a chip format. Compressing air itself generates heat. Moreover, they're aiming for a higher heat saturation percentage which means the temperature is going to get high and it might straight up be a fire hazard. I also imagine that the "vibrating membranes" themselves will fry out if the inlets are blocked. What kinds of exit temps are we looking at? Having a mini jets besides your fingers doesn't sound like a good idea. 2) What is the lifespan of the device? I imagine shooting dust particles at a relatively high speeds won't result in a product that lasts for very long and the copper substrate is going to get damaged. 3) What is the device rated for in terms of PPM? As there's dust everywhere and there has to be a rated environment for it. Honestly, I can only see a use for these devices in fabs and nowhere else. I know the interviewer has a history of simping and getting too excited, but I'm surprised he didn't ask these kind of questions. This is why I prefer GN over him. GN is never going to spare these sorts of questions just to "have" an interview.
Very clever product, well done for them! If they can retrofit these into currently existing fan sizes, they will be onto a lot of money, so many things use fans and could do with being silent! (looking at you, 3d printers). Also imagine walking into a data centre without having corridors of angry racks screaming at you!
WOW ! I imagine that this innovation will take computing and mobile devices to the next level. Great job Seshu Madhavapeddy and keep up the great innovations coming
@@IhsanMujdeci the difference is that with this product you could put an ip68 airfilter while still being very more cooler then normal methods, cause the back pressure is so high. so there will be vents for the air to get in and out as with all moving air applications, but it would be a dust and water filtered channel.
@@MrDragonorp that's a great consideration. I was thinking more of when it's submerged in water. Then this fan solution would need to stop running for some time and/or the passive cooling would have to be enough and maybe the cpu will throttle down.
As someone who focuses on silent builds this is incredible. Can’t wait for this technology to come to desktop in the future.
for mobile phones will be game changer, atm since they're slick in design they face quite a lot of thermal throttling (the gaming phones are chunkier and have better cooling)
Especially for laptops.
@@ristekostadinov2820 People are not gonna want a active cooler in a smartphone lol.
@@killerhurtalot Some phones have them, like red magic.
@@MrMackievelli yeah, and they're super niche products with low sales.
I think that this is probably way more exciting than any other announcement from the big players at CES 2023.
I wonder if this tech could be used for electric powered planes too? 🤔
Half the video one question was on my mind. How much heat can it pump?
10W is nothing. this is currently near useless technology. We'll see if it improves but right now, useless for most computers. More expensive and likely about as effective as just pumping it into the chassis of the laptop, or just using a passive radiator in a pc with some airflow
There are so many problems with this technology and i will tell you why it is :
1. Dust, dust, you cant clean this silent boy enough to be effective over period of time.
2. Price. is much moore expensive to produce and use...
3.Power consumption and Noise. Its loud and power hungry.
@@Renovatio2142 1st and 3rd point is wrong.
noise is non existent, normal fans in gaming laptops use 3W of power, laptops in the high end use much powerful fans and more of them too, ROG and alienware have 4 fans in premium models.
2) price is a issue because effficiency is low, you'll need many of these chips in a typical gaming laptop which makes them expensive.
if efficiency of a single chip can be increased to 20-25W then we truly have a revolution.
@@manojpatra2840 and about that dust!?, You forget to write how do you want to solve the dust problem...
And noise its a problem because always when you move air in high speed or around a obstacle you will hear it...There is no other way...
As a mech. engineer I've really enjoyed listening to a knowledgable man on topic. Usually most start-ups are clueless idiots who oversell to get more money from sponsors, this man isn't that. Looking forward to his invention and designs to mature and find their way to consumer devices.
Yeah he really have immediate realistic answers to every questions Gordon throws at him. I'm really excited to see real world results of this product.
Agree, but he needs to get a bit better at using more common terms. Back pressure vs static pressure, for example. Seems like applying something like what we saw with the initial jets on water cooler cold plates, but obviously with a much more complex pumping mechanism. I think it would be interesting to see this applied to desktops and larger cards someday.
You're a mech?....
That period got me 😂
Interested but a bit flummuxed by going after the laptop market -- maybe it is just for the lower TDP. It would seem to make more sense in the server / workstation market where thermal management is such a pain. I could see a line of NVIDIA A100 on this.
I agree I really enjoyed listening to him speak.
This might be the next big thing since SSDs. So hyped to see if this is going to be a reality.
One of the most important questions is about durability which includes resistance against dust/dirt buildup and hours of run time for instance.
I'm not all the way through the video yet, but at 5:55 he mentions being able to cover it with a dust filter that's stronger than what you can put on a notebook fan so that's promising at least.
@@pianoanime Doesn't that just move the problem up a step? with these small inlets it won't take long until the filter is clogged with dust
I think the problem is less dust build up and moreso mechanical and material fatigue because the thing is constantly vibrating at possibly a rate higher than fans. Vibration can help with resisting dust build up. I'm not sure your motherboards or CPU's go through extensive "rub testing".
@@stephenlim7564 you're right, I was only addressing the resistance to dust buildup part of the comment I replied to. It will be interesting to see the lifetime durability of these things considering they will be vibrating constantly. Considering they're quieter than a standard fan are the vibrations they produce simply ultrasonic? It's a good question you bring up regarding how/if they'll interact with the other computer parts from a physical/mechanical standpoint outside of the active cooling.
@@HildeTheOkayish I can't imagine what their long term plans are, but my initial thought was that it would probably be easier to replace a filter on an enclosure than to get dust out of the device itself.
This may end up changing the game in a few years. This new technology is gonna be on my watchlist
Exactly
Not few years. Expect 10-15 years.
@Mark Lee 10-15 years is not that long
@@MarkLee1 What? Why that long?
@@MarkLee1 While you are watching this video, somewhere a Chinese is watching it too, then boom an Earjett is available for a quarter of Airjet price.
Easily the most impressive product out of CES this year!!! I hope this startup gets far with this technology. The applications for this are outstanding!
IF it can live up to the claims. This is not just good for cooling. It might have propulsion applications... how about in a drone? And if it can scale... why not rockets, jets, or cars? Lots of potential applications.
@@CD-vb9fi I don't think so. These things' efficiency are way too low to be replacement for fans.
@@howardkong8927 According to the video these are more efficient than fans. But efficiency is not the only factor. A less efficient system is still able to displace more thermal energy than a more efficient one simply because its "capacity" is greater. That is why I was wondering if this can scale. Can building a bigger solid state heat sink produce more capacity? If it can... he said the output was 200 km/h. That is plenty of thrust to suspend "light" objects in the air. It might be enough force to rotate a blade fast enough to produce the force necessary for lift. But I don't know... which is why I am wondering. If you watch the video they have the thing turning a fan. So It just got me thinking is all.
Not of the year my friend, of the CENTURY! The application of this technology is insane. Think of all the smartphones that are going to come out with more performance due to this technology. The gaming phones from Asus or Lenovo able to be thin, quiet, and insanely powerful because of this (RAZER phone comeback maybe) new tech. First Gen gaming laptops with this technology will be accompanied by vapor chambers and this tech with fans. Think how silent it would be. idle temperatures of running laptops today will be the new performance temps.
Imagine being look down upon because your fans are even remotely audible in a quiet library setting. I am not going to touch on desktops since it is a stationary object with no problems in cooling. But Smartphones, Laptops? Exciting stuff for sure!
@@howardkong8927 he said it runs on less than 1w
This could be used for VR integration to simulate the movement of air in environments without having to deal with the noise of fan/mechanical devices. Would be amazing for a variety of things especially if you scale this chip up to the size of a box fan.
Or even just for keeping your face cool in general
Also for cooling the headset processor. Current headsets COULD be more powerful, but they would need to add fans. Almost all headsets are passively cooled because fans on the face were tried, but were too unpleasant (from noise, weight, size, and vibration standpoints). This could really allow for a jump in processor power.
@@ethany.2981 yeah, for helmets! dude thats siiiick
If all this doesn't suddenly flop, I bet the tech will make it to Quest 4
@@darksunrise957 doesnt this new technology rely on vibrations to cool
Finally a creator and owner that's knowledgeable and produces something of actual substance! We need more like him in the world.
The technology is amazing! I'm really looking forward to using this.
Is it any good ?
He should build system on it first, is it any better than conventional solutions, why you need it ?
@lucas Rem did you watch the video? It has a demonstration in it. As for "if we need it"? Yes. Ever have a fan so loud zoom your other people heard it? Quieter is better. Also, the amount of cooling is far superior here. Did you watch the video?!
It's a very cool invention, but this salesman keeps calling it the "world's first solid state active cooling chip," which any good engineer will tell you is false. Thermoelectric cooling chips (peltier type) have been on the market for decades. They don't work by shifting air though, they are solid state heat pumps.
@Daniel Kos I'm not familiar with that many solid state cooler chips? News to me. Would you be against referencing some?
Also, my point was.. he's sure better than Steve Jobs and Elizabeth Homes. He's producing stuff, not stealing and making Vaporware. Seems that way anyways.
@@davetindell4110 It was a technical nit-pick of mine, doesn't diminish how cool this idea is. This company seems to be using piezoelectric crystals to "pump" the air in a similar way to how the print head in an inkjet printer uses piezoelectric crystals to pump ink. iirc GE announced a similar product with a vibrating diaphragm in a "chip" form factor a few years back but it never hit the market.
As for peltiers, you can find them on eBay and they have been used for specialised chip cooling for a long time: but they have some serious drawbacks, e.g. producing a lot of waste heat of their own where often you then need a secondary way to get rid of *that* heat. They are often found in specialised scientific instruments where things like CCD sensor chips have to be kept very cold, but not very practical or efficient for gaming PCs. But they're interesting in their own right and they technically come under "solid state active cooling" which was the nitpick I had.
i came in expecting a peltier pad and a vapor pipe and now im actually impressed and i want to see where this goes
I think this could be effective, but the main problem is the shear amount of moving parts. It will be difficult to create something effective with this level of complexity.
@@alifelessrock48 What moving parts? This is a compliant mechanism like the accelerometer or the microphone on your phone, never seen one break. The manufacturing is a mems process, the device is manufactured fully assembles with no human intervention. My concerns are about dust.
@@paulodpereira Same, thats the only hindrance if a big dust ball gets sucked in and stuck. As for "moving thermal mass" ,since the speed of the jet is so high the mass flow is probably high enough, and if not you could use more and spread em out.
Idk what they said about power consumption in comparison to a fan that can cool as well, that would be interesting.
That (Peltier Device) was exactly what I expected as well. The down-sides of Peltier devices are too much, there are reasons why we don't have them cooling computers already. Instead we see a totally novel design concept. I hope that this goes mainstream and turns out to be more reliable than fan based cooling solutions and successfully scales to 1000W or more and can replace cooling for Desktop CPUs, GPUs and PSUs.
id love to see a peltier pad running cold on the bottom copper plate of this thing. but like every startup. theres so much bullshit they speak and promote its like shopping on ebay. Ie 10000000watt flashlight that runs on a single 1.5v battery and lasts 300 years.... when you know its a .5w flashlight that will last maybe 6 months if your lucky.
it is always exciting to see a technology makes a jump not just an improvement on efficiency or capacity.
unless chip makers take silent and efficient cooling as a license to cheap out on power management...
Man, I love Gordon... I've been building PC's since I was 9 yrs old with my dad, roughly 1985, and really into PC gaming around the Quake days (1996-ish), Gordon was a staple in PC tech news. Here I am in my mid 40's and Gordon still being here with us, introducing us to new products and innovation in computing is a comfort, he reminds me of everything I loved about computers, bringing back fond memories of excitement, which is rare given that I've spent the last 25+ years working in and around Enterprise IT, and that coupled with modern social media and modern game trends (unfinished games launched to support DLC, loot boxes, P2W, gambling, etc), much of the enjoyment of computing and gaming has been ruined for me, and the internet has been completely ruined. I wish that anyone 30 and under could go back in time and experience PC community, gaming and the internet of the late 90's, before it was all tainted and destroyed by money grubbing, clout chasing and censorship, it was pure.
I was there, first our Sharp MZ-800, Sinclair, later then intel 386 and Doom 1 on home RJ-45's networks with friends and 5-7years after that hardware-networking big companies property to ready those for the new thing....structural networks and then with internet.
I left this field in 2003. Tired of it, ready for smt new.
@@RasicAll what field did you end up leaving IT for (if you don't mind me asking)?
@@lrodriguezvideo he understands basics of thermals. He's not a cooling expert, and he's been disconnected form the enthusiast space for a few years, which have also been the years where we've learned the most and seen the most innovation about high performance PC thermals and cooling solutions.
For me, "modern gaming" is being able to play Unreal Tournament 99 in Linux Mint @4K resolution with updated 4K textures...with my newly built Z97 i7 5775C with its Iris Pro HD6200 iGPU at over 120 fps. PC case is Streacom BC1 V2 open bench table and totally fanless, even CPU is passively cooled. Today's games suck; you are correct about that.
The new Cooling look so good, nobody care you life, dont be a cry baby.
Wow, this is definitely the coolest thing demo'd at CES - let's hope they really can deliver on those promises. Super-thin and quiet cooling? Brilliant for ultralights.
Brilliant for everything
@Moire "Coolest thing"... i see what you did there...
@@joebeefhash3455 guess you will lose your money them because intel wouldn't sink millions on this company if it didn't.
My worry is that it won't be able to do anything to match the sheer volume of air that a fan can push. At this size, it does seem to fill a niche. This is a realm where fans just don't function well and this thing has a clear advantage. But I can't imagine it scaling up well at all vs fans. They just need to find enough business in that super-thin-n-light territory where CEOs keep asking for the impossible.
@@pirojfmifhghek566 they don't have to because they are much more efficient. That said, your point is still valid because they can't just increase thickness to push more air, though I am sure there are ways around it.
Fell in love when he started talking about dust proofing. This is true innovation!
It's still sucking air I can't see how it's dustproof
@@zainoferd7852 I guess it's sucking air from smaller holes, which if I think about it is even worse. Dust could get stuck inside quite badly, and can make it useless pretty fast. Someone explain me how this might be dust-proof.
owh that should get stuck really really quick. I don't believe he dust proof claim
@codingPotato21 but dust still can stuck on filter and block air flow
@@FLevi-pi5vt there could be different possibilities, but the more straigthforward is that there is an insane amout of pressure. There is no way the dust can collect in it
Even the Dyson blade-less fan has a fan beneath it. This is the first time I'm seeing air being pushed without a fan. It's a game changer for sure. Hope to buy a laptop soon with this.
I've seen very large fanless air-moving devices. They're not micro-scale, but if you want to see one on TH-cam, @DIYPerks made one (his "breathing" PC)
Take a look at piezoelectric fans
wind turbines also don't have fans.
There's also ionic fans
@@justseifert That's what I guessed this would be before watching the video, but turns out it's yet another technology, which is cool.
This is absolutely INCREDIBLE!! Shoutout to all the developers and people who put this tech together!
This is the most innovative mechanical device I have seen in years. I would think it could bring solutions to packaging devices we haven't seen before. Nice job!
A ton of things still use fans. It could revolutionize a whole lot more than just PC cooling.
Aircraft, Heat blowers, Drones, Air conditioners, Ventilation systems, Portable fans, Refrigerators, Ovens , Dryers, ...
@@4nlimited3dition_4n3d I imagine it would be a pain to scale up to make larger modules to get the flow volume required for most of those applications. Maybe you could by just stacking them though. I would definitely like to play with one on my 3D printer as a part cooling solution though!
@@widgity Yeah, I did a bit more reading about it and seems that the efficiency side in terms of actual air moved per watt is not much different from normal fans. The size, weight, noise, durability and safety definitely are though.
It’s amazing innovation, but right now the issue is the membranes get brittle from the heat and crack - they’re still working on longevity
@@nareddyapps Where did you find that?
I specialized in thermal and fluid simulation in college and this bad boy sounds like it will be amazing for thermal transfer with lots of room for future development by changing the surface geometry of the heat spreader. This has me excited
Another TEC (Peltier element) shown as the greatest miracle of mombo jumbo science. Meh, just skip it bs for another stupid CEO who wants to put some money into another CASH IN CASH OUT BRO DOWN PROFFIT stratup
@@cyber_robot889 It really doesn't look like one of those projects, though.
@@cyber_robot889 This is not a Peltier device. This device moves air not heat.
I did CFD in grad school too, this sounds rather interesting indeed.
@@StinkPickle4000 it moves dirt at the intake to guarantee planned obsolescence, they said you can put a filter but that will only guarantee you have to buy a new filter every week to substitute the old.
This is absolutely huge. Way bigger than any of the tech most companies are showing at CES. A new cooling solution could be absolutely *revolutionary* for both new and existing form factors, along with electronics longevity and performance.
anyone with basic know how in cooling can see this product is not viable at all... yet. power efficiency is abysmal. It's all that matters for portable devices, this will literally cut your gaming time by 30% on a gaming laptop. It needs an order of magnitude improved efficiency to be revolutionary.
@@Cypeq it's a first Gen product as they mentioned.. And looking at the specs it seems to use about 5w, compared to around 0.5-1.5 watts for a regular laptop fan. If the perfmance is better and can allow for more powerful devices to be smaller/quieter it may be a good trade off. The amount of space saved could be converted to battery space for instance to offset the power usage.
Also if you're using a device meant for heavier tasks like gaming or CAD or Google Chrome tabs (jokes) you likely have the device plugged in as the battery probably wouldn't last long anyway.
@@Cypeq In a phone maybe I can agree with you, but on a Gaming laptop I disagree with your opinion, I haven't finished watching the video, but if this tech can regulate its performance like a fan (low speed and high speed) then there will be no issues and even if not, I don't see that much problem, almost no one plays on a gaming laptop without being plug in
@@rolandotula6951 Its basically replacing cheap fan that can be laud if small, with probably far more expensive solid state alternative that eats 10 times the power to cool the same thing but supposedly makes less noise. Supposedly has enough suck/pressure to work with good dust filters, which should make devices far less maintenance needy compared to classic fans, but with how its made I am not sure it can last for 10+ years like normal fans. Looking at it - it wont save space either, at least in high power situations, so can't really "fix" power usage with bigger battery. If they manage to bring efficiency high up, and also make that thing last years - it will be revolutionary, otherwise I feel like classic fans/water colling on high power, and passive calculated cooling for low power will simply win.
As a person currently working on a silent, but ultra small form factor build, I can see this working in conjunction with my noctua fans.
Getting heat out of tight spaces so my high volume fans can shunt it out the right gaps is a huge challenge for me, especially the smallest fans I can get still measure at 10mm in height.
It's all about use case. And in a PC build, the best solution is a hybrid one.
And for all the pp measuring people who say that "silent" and "small" builds mean a cut in performance, consider that having a 0 decibel RTX3070 noctua inside a Fractal Ridge is also an interesting challenge.
I'm interested to see if Apple will opt to use this on their laptops to improve their thermals and noise levels, particularly for the Air models. Since it's so thin, it might even be viable for their iPad lineup. I wonder what the rated TDP is of each of their solutions.
Edit: The mini does 5W and the Pro does 10W of heat dissipation, so this is really targeted almost exclusively to ultra-portable devices with low power chips. Still, it'll be interesting to see where they take this technology in the future. If they can manage to reach a 35+W heat dissipation then they'll open themselves up to a substantially larger market.
I doubt it.
@@frank234561 idk man, There's been reports of devices getting overheated... especially their brand new M1 and M2 laptops
Apple will rip it off, claim the patents as their own. Bastards
@@poruatokin I definitely wouldn't put it past them to do that.
" so this is really targeted almost exclusively to" wrong, watch the video, they say you can put multiple inside one machine on top a heatpipe
Incredibly hype to see the evolution of this concept. Hands down the coolest item that I've watched any CES coverage of this year.
what we need now is actual demonstration of the product. to prove it's not just hype.
I see what you did there
I hope it doesn't blow
@@someoneinasia it would've been great if Gordon showed few more clips of the chip in action :(
@@someoneinasia It is hype, this will be useless for today's desktop PCs, BUT it would be useful for some applications, notebooks, laptops, etc, this won't cut it to cool your 4090 or latest 13th / 14th gen Intel processor though - only problem I see with this is that it will generate more heat - it still takes a fan to exhaust heat, otherwise you are increasing your overall temperature.
I can only imagine that the first-gen tech won't be worth it for most use cases, but to see a firm _really_ developing such an innovation gives me a lot of hope for future development.
This would be fantastic for ultra light with iGPUs. Just think, Apple already has fanless M2 Airs. In the long run it could make desktop replacements much more portable. 2.8mm is absolutely tiny for the air that it can move.
in 3 years from now, this should be ready to work with our components....
I mean you can have two of this on a steam deck and let the CPU go from 15W to 20W, while getting silent cooling and getting more room for extra battery life.
they are partnered with Intel and Qualcomm
@soyel94 imagine what they can do for hand held gaming devices and tablets which make up a significant market segment
It's 2am; came to watch this for maybe 2 mins, but ended up watching the entire thing. Remarkable innovation. Wish his company all the success!
It's 5am for me.
this seems truly innovative!! I hope a big company doesn't acquire them and lock it to themselves, but it becomes widely used by the whole industry!
If this is so revolutionary, that will probably happen but even then it won't be a problem as whatever company that owns it will have such an advantage over competitors, that they'll probably choose to either pay the patent to produce them or just buy them from that company ...just as the clients this man mentions are doing right now
@@ironheavenz tbh I only meant Apple. Other companies will sell the parts but Apple will hide it.
Although the physics seems quite clear and correct, so a smart and competent group of engineers and lawyers will figure out how to do this without violating the patents.
@@admiralackbar5254 90% of Apple's parts are sourced third party 🤔
You don't need to make up lies to get your point across.
Apple will buy them probably.
This is one of those truly new products that took some innovation to make, and you can tell how excited he is to share it with the world. He's very well spoken and handled that pitch and interview so well. I'm happy for the company and thrilled for the future of thermals!
ay yes this brown guy is so well spoken uh huh 🙄
He already told you this is NOT new... ... it is a product 'modified' from jet engines of the military for use in CPUs. Hahahaha... ...
@@48956l imagine acting like pointing out that this Indian guy being well spoken in his very clear second/third language is somehow racist and not a legitimate compliment to acknowledge his accomplishment.
Granted, I understand, you aren't well spoken in your first language, so naturally you would get pissed at someone complimenting someone else
Imagine having to replete this pitch maybe a hundred times to get through a trade show.
@@vorbo01 Well-spoken is the language equalivalent of "bless his heart." It is absolutely an unspoken insult.
I like how he spins the dust filter compatibility so positively. Based on the way he describes the mechanism, I bet if you get _any_ sizeable contaminants sucked into this "fan" it is going to be toast! A high-quality dust filter seems almost absolutely necessary for this type of cooler. Let's just hope the durability of this device can satisfy customer devices in the wild...
Indeed seems like it need to work in a "closed loop" sort of what water cooling does on desktop, and he mentioned it is capable of doing so because devices can be made dustproof and IP68 so nothing would prevent a sealed box of certain capacity to being made around the solid state cooling device to protect it from dust I think.
@@gabrielmaia5334 But if it only works well in a closed loop, then how is it any better than just heatpipes? Since all you're doing is transferring heat within the device itself.
@@FrostArchon Distribution of air around the device could go a long way toward avoiding hot spots, which is often a massive issue with passively cooled devices. This allows you to use the entire case as a heat sink by moving the hot air around inside.
They show video clips of it working in unfiltered air, so I think it would be able to handle dust.
Indeed it got me thinking.. Anyone who has opened up their laptops will surely know the amount of accumulated dust in the fan..time will decide and hope that is taken care off
Seshu is legit. I'm an electronics engineer by training and I understood what he's saying. It's a pity we didn't get to see the cutaway of the AirJet. Using MEM actuators to move air is just too cool! Would love to see how it works and he said it's how jet engines are cooled? Looks like I'd be spending a few nights researching on this topic!
As an embedded engineer, no one cares that you're an engineer man. Keep it to yourself.
Linus did a video about this tech too, iirc 👍
I love you bro people on the internet doesn't have this curisosity
it will get stuck very quickly. small holes are the perfect dust filter.
@@lievenvv Not quite, LTT's video is about piezoelectric crystal linear fans.
I'm interested in the potential for using this technology to make active filtration masks without rotating fans, because that feature set; silent, thin, low power; is perfect for making powered wearable filtration systems.
Overall very impressed; while I do have some concerns about the longevity of the MEMS devices, as they have to be continually running for years, it does seem to have a lot of potential. Hopefully we'll see a version able to cool 100+ watts of TDP in a few years, so that it could be used in desktops, and mini PCs like NUCs and such.
A quick breakdown of a couple of keywords, as they're kinda jargon:
MEMS = Microelectromechanical systems; they are everywhere these days, though most notably in accelerometers, like the ones used to tell which way your phone is directed, or when an airbag should activate.
Boundry layer = A thin layer of air that is moving much slower than everything above it, that kinda sticks to the surface; it's a major contributor to drag in aerodynamics. (I wasn't aware that it also hindered heat transfer, it absolutely makes sense.)
They look modular and most likely will be cheaper than memory
buddy broke down his on yt comment.
mems devices are cheaper, lighter and can be kept under longer operational periods than mechanical components.
This is basically a piezo speaker that vibrates and makes wind
@@gabrielv.4358 no one gets how bad this is
This is sensational!
As a IT Geek, for me this cooling is amazing!
This will make laptops so much powerfull and silent and substantial thinner.
plus fans can fail I wonder how resistant this system is to dust and shocks, I have to personally control my laptop's gpu fan speed slowly raising it to 3/4k rpms (can take a while) before being able to set it to auto or its bearing will fail causing it screech.
Asus had the bright idea to set the heatsink on both sides of the fan (for something that could be done leaving it on just one side of the fan, just like they did for the cpu fan*) so I would need to remove the entire heatsink, replace the thermal paste and pads to switch the fan which is not something I want to do as a beginner.
sry for the rant, I should have just not dropped my phone on my laptop from just 5 cm above...
*which asus actually did for other laptops of the same model/series...
this will end laptop. everything will be tab.
- assuming that solid state active cooling actually beats other cooling methods in performance and price. You shouldn't assume it's going to be better, especially without any data or tests for comparison.
@@realsabab maybe in an alternate reality, not in this one
Air makes sound bro. Not only fan is the culprit
If this actually works well and they can scale up it could revolutionize more than just computing. Good job putting this up Gordon, like others have said this is probably the coolest thing I've seen come out of CES this year. Surprised they didn't get more coverage or win any innovation awards.
honestly? this could revolutionize phones and VR and so much more... make them far more powerful than they are already or just make them cooler overall.
Depends mostly on the price! $1 for a fan (at OEM sort of scales) or $25~$100 for this? Who knows what the cost is! But it's hopefully going to be competitive.
@@noxious89123 if his claims are true, I could save up some extra bills. Or wait until it matures and trickles down to the midrange segment. Great news anyway.
@@Viesta Yeah and apart from consumer devices... plenty of industrial applications as well -- From automotive to manufacturing to HVAC.
That could be great for handheld PCs like steamdeck depending on what finstack you need for this 10Watt capacity
There no finstack the chips is the fan + the fin stack and you can put multiple of them on 1 heat pipe
Seshu does a wonderful job explaining their product. I love his enthusiasm for it. It's really infectious.
They make are wondeful job , in practice they implied a Stirling Heat Pump in a small chip
Does anyone have any links to the actual physics and mechanics involved with this?
hes a great communicator
It really tells me he's passionate about what he's making and gives me a lot of confidence when it comes to the product itself
Really? Why don't you explain to me how it works then.
This is amazing whether you need it or not. It's about time we see cooling tech become more innovative
But how is this thing dust proof if the dust collects inside the vibrating memebrane
@@b-beluga4510 nono, they probably meant that you can place dust filters on the laptop
@@SreenikethanI What so when the filters on the laptop eventually block up like say in around a few months, the laptop will start to overheat.
@@tyronenelson9124 I'd assume you clean or exchange them. Ideally the filters should be outside the case at the air intake or at least extractable for cleaning.
@@tyronenelson9124 can be cleaned, right?
Innovation should always be celebrated, Good to see someone actually addressing this obvious problem that we all face everyday, All the best Seshu and the team,👍
Innovation should be *selectively* celebrated. In general, some ideas are just bad and some fail catastrophically. Solid State Active Cooling seems interesting, but the salesman never showed any data comparing its performance to conventional cooling methods, so we should remain vigilant.
@@Xamarin491 @ 10:53
Exactly, innovation by definition is new often we have a mix of innovation and other things in engineering no other way to create progress.
@@razk2557 Those graphs only show the performance of one cooling method (Solid state cooling). Without data and graphs for *other* cooling methods to compare to SSC, the data for SSC doesn't actually give us much of value: Without the other cooling methods to compare, we have no idea if the SSC's results are better or worse in comparison to other cooling methods
When I look at their chips I instantly think about using those on M.2 SSDs. Those get extremely hot and there aren't very many ways to cool them off. I got a small fin stack with a 30mm fan on it which sort of works but having this chip to cool them would be awesome.
man anything to make laptops sound less like a jet engine is a massive win this is probably gonna get big
Very cool technology if it works as described. MEMS-scale components have a lot of potential, but will wait to see how this actually performs as far as performance and longevity before getting too excited. Interesting technology, regardless.
Cool, eh? Pun intended?
I guess that's the rub - competing with $1 rifle bearing fans from China that can run for 50,000 hours is going to be a big hurdle when this thing presumably costs way more.
@@Weaver_Games it should cost more, it's way better than fans. Silent at full blast, does not require vents bellow the laptop, thinner yet more powerful and will possibly outlast traditional fans.
It is also the only hope intel has to remain competitive in the laptop space.
@@Weaver_Games You probably won't see this in budget laptops but for higher-end stuff, this is a game changer. When its reliable, I don't see why this wouldn't dominate the Ultrabook space, which is already quite expensive.
@@timlolxP much in the same vein of what you said, this probably won't see implementation for several more years, and it will UNDOUBTEDLY be installed in top-tier products when it does. OEMs are gonna need time to transfer these into schematics for builds. The "bleeding edge" factor is too interesting to everyone in the tech space for them NOT to be wickedly expensive, and the "silent" factor is going to be marketed as enthusiast-level components.
Very cool.
Could be great for thin laptops, but first thing I thought of is imagine this is in a handheld pc like a steamdeck.
I was thinking high end videocards. We're starting to reach 500W 4-5 slot insanity levels, I can see something thin that can get lots of hot air out the back of the card theoretically working there.
better yet imagine every smartphone being a "steamdeck" i.e. being able to run AAA PC games and kick ps5/xbox butts..
Steam Deck was my first thought. I could gdp or ayaneo jumping on this as well.
You read my mind.
@@arisindulens2008 man, if you could make 1-2 slot shrouds using this type of temp mitigation, imagine how QUIET a GPU could be...
Saying that back made me shudder... Imagine how much board partners would charge, given the last few years of GPU pricing, with a fully active cooling 1-slot 20gb GPU that never sees 68C... it'd be $5000, easy.
Now THIS is probably the coolest piece of technology I’ve seen in a while. This product has extreme potential!
This is incredible what they have been able to achieve as a startup! I really hope their technology goes mainstream, as cooling technology is currently at a plateau. Imagine having an ultra-thin notebook with power comparable to a desktop PC, while also being silent and cool to the touch.
i think a reason why no big company bought this tech is because it is to expensive for the company/end consumer or prone to breaking (ultra thin membranes that vibrates? how will it live in a low to medium dust environment?, what about humidity?, how will the noise change over use with all the gunk building up over normal use?)
@@pflegefachkraft7595 well, he said it can be made dust proof
You are described the MacBook Air m2 😂
200kph air coming out of your computer is going to be loud.
@@gamervmid MBA m2 is not desktop level. Powerful for its size certainly, but not that powerful (for example, apples gpu graphs are misleading, they only show the gpu is more power efficient than a 3090, as the graph cuts off at the lowest end of wattage).
In fact the M2 doesn't even have good thermal performance. The m1 was pretty exceptional for it, especially as it was passively cooled in the air. The m2 however runs much hotter, even the MBP struggles to keep it cool and thats not passive cooling.
This is amazing innovation. When you do Mechanical Engineering right, you introduce a significant step change in many applications. Kudos to Seshu Madhavapeddy.
I hope they patent it, make it really expensive and dont let any plebs get a hold of it, I hate poor people.
I hope they don't patent it, make it really cheap and let any plebs get a hold of it, I love poor people.
@@RoeGi1337 big corpo moment
@@RoeGi1337 lmao
@@RoeGi1337 no shutup i hope it gets as ubiquitous and accessible as fans soon enough..
I've read an article on this and I hope the industry will pick up on this tech, it seems very promising! This would be perfect in the Steam Deck.
Isn't Steam deck like 25W total system draw? You would need 2 pro's and a mini to cool it... I wonder what these sell for?
Still the pros are also soooo damn thin.. we can only hope they get cheaper
I don't get what prevents it from being simply duct into bigger heat sink.
@@StinkPickle4000 25 watt total but a good amount of that is passively dissipated - the screen for example. The SoC uses up to 15. With how much air this appears to move, the SoC could probably have one of these mounted on it and the exhaust airflow would handle passive cooling of the RAM and power IC. (The motherboard would have to be redesigned to accommodate this of course)
@@AFistfulOf4K LOL 'probably' without an actual product in your hands. At least say "should" otherwise it seems like you're chilling for a product for no reason! Perhaps you are paid by the company?
The idea is great, but I wonder if the inlet and outlet openings are too small to be vulnerable to dust.
It sounds like their plan is finer dust filters and higher back pressure.
I wish this company the best of luck. It's great to see new innovations like this in a world full of stagnation.
What world are you living in? What stagnation? The tech world moves faster than anything out there.
@@snakejuce Yeah. With miniscule updates and tweaks, just enough to make something new so they can basically re-sell you the same thing every year doing the bare minimum to maximize profits. That's more a lateral move than a vertical one.
@@audiogarden21 You ain't lying there bud. Def agree with you on that. Couple that with good ol' planned obsolescence and perceived obsolescence and you've got a good return customer basis. A nice collection of fangirls ready to throw their money at any product you produce 🤦♂🤡
@@snakejuce lol, exactly.
Amazing. His ability to explain things in such a way that makes it understandable for people of any skill level or interest is very impressive.
An actual real invention for a change, fascinating!
I thought the same thing, its so fucking cool!
This AirJet has me intrigued. It's basically a true bladeless fan, with no moving parts!
I can't wait to see this scaled up. In the case of blower type GPU coolers for example, because you don't have to account for a blower fan you can either increase the length of the existing heatsink, or shorten the overall length of the add in board whilst breaking through the boundary layer to provide even more efficient & effective cooling.
Assuming they can produce it at a competitive price, I'd imagine that this in conjunction with decent thermal interfaces could offer at or near water-cooled performance without the need for pumps, and the risk of leakage.
Another place I can see this being useful is for case airflow. I can imagine a 120mm×360mm or 120×240 panel in the front of a case in place of traditional 120mm fans would provide quite a bit of airflow even at low power. Because of the pressure delta this technology can provide, it would be easy to integrate a clip on or magnetic filter that can easily be removed and cleaned. the velocity attained should provide better cooling for bay devices such as 3.5 inch hard drives, and because you no longer have fan hubs and frames to interfere with airflow it will have less turbulence.
The fact that they're a fraction of the thickness of even a 15mm slimline fan, they have no moving parts, and can operate basically silently is just a bonus!
Now that I think about it, I do hope they end up offering these as a fan substitute. Whilst I have no idea if this technology can provide the CFM of traditional fans, and perpendicular fin stacks may not be able to take advantage of boundary layer disruption, I can imagine that something like this as a 120×120 panel would have no problem blowing enough air through a 120mm tower cooler to keep your typical quadcore happy whilst keeping the minimal noise crowd happy. It might even improve the performance of some tower coolers as you can fully utilise the fins as opposed to missing fin area behind the fan hub and shroud
it does have moving parts, they are just very small
What it definitely doesn't have is rotating parts & this has me wondering if we're also seeing at a much better lifespan due to the lack of bearings wearing out or simply their grease drying out
@@unfairfair The thing that concerns me the most about the size of these 'chips' is dust ingress. Any level of dust going into that tiny space will clog it in a very short time, with 0 ability to remove it on the consumer level. If they're super cheap, replacing them sounds like the better method of cleaning. Peizoelectric pumps have already been used in both air and water pumping so the underlying tech is more mature than we know... it's exciting. But it could also end up like peilter coolers... a cool tech which is totally useless in real world situations.
Actually it is THE moving part.
@@Xorthis I immediately thought of, "It wouldn't take much dust to clog that thing" but he later said it was fully enclosed and dustless. I hope this works and becomes commonplace because I'm tired of noisy computers.
Damn, Mr. Madhavepeddy just gave a clinic on heat transfer. I learned a ton from this interview. I'd love to see where they go in terms of making a silent gaming laptop, and it'd also be great to see if it ends up working in the Desktop space as well.
@notfiveo there was demonstrations, at least of the technology, seems like you didn't watch the video
@notfiveo You better wash your eyes and revisit video @ 3:14 , 4:05 and 10:53
As the guy said, the gaming laptops is somewhere in future of this technology. But what I see right now is that small boys could be used in high-end mobile devices (tablets, gaming phones) and in powerful networking devices (high-end routers, they heat a lot!). There's tons of applications of the current state of this technology even today!
i could see this being used as is on high end ddr5 and gen 5 nvme as for gpu and cpu with the tech as is it would require a custom heat pipe allowing the attachment of up to 10 or more of them but it could still work.
this is the most insane tech I've seen from CES, can easily see this becoming the mainstream cooling solution in a few years
@@danwarb1 looks like you need to relearn how to read. I said in a few years fam, obviously the technology is in its early form, and it looks very promising.
I've seen mods of existing computers like a MacBook Air. where they replaced the current cooling with a thermal pad. If there is enough space and you would have to pull power somewhere it might work.
@@danwarb1 saying its less than half as efficient as a fan imply that you are doing a comparison of the current state of product, not what it can achieve.
@@danwarb1 and quieter and thinner and with less risk of dust buildup, and theoretically less failure problems, not sure what your point is. And they are apparently going to be part of the intel EVO spec now based on the article, so they cant be that bad. Also based on some (admittedly probably best case scenario) graphs they have, they shouldn't have the same problems with heatsink saturation reducing turbo clocks and time.
@@danwarb1 "Not likely" Refuses to elaborate. Typical skeptic. It's almost as if you people prefer having old inferior technology lol.
Best thing coming out of CES. We need more coverage of this.
Because it's not "sexy". But a HUGELY development foe sure!
a demo on how to integrate it with a PC/laptop and show the stats of temperature and efficiency would look promising
I have to say in 30 years of PC building, this is loooooooooooooong overdue, much like the transition from HDD to SSD getting rid of moving parts is always a good thing and if you can do so while getting better results well thats just great.
Hopefully in time they will cost similar amounts to coolers today, I look forward to them.
Ssd is fast yes, but the data not store for a long time
Cooling fans are the only components in a pc and laptips that are not solid state. Fans are often the first component to fail. Replacing them with solid state cooling would do wonders for reliability.
UHOH! The membrane is made up of millions of tiny moving pieces...
@@StinkPickle4000 While you are in a sense correct that there is movement, there is a difference in mechanical terms between motion from oscillation, and actual mechanical movement, mechanical movement creates far more wear and tear on the items involved in that and usually requires vastly more maintenance of a given system using mechanical movement.
@@trucid2 Aye hopefully, I am genuinely looking forward to these especially for desktop and GPUI down the road. I mean can you imagine having a high end graphics card in your pc that was no thicker than the height of a capacitor and had no fans? been 30 years since that was the case.
The CEO's explanation was fantastic, and this is fascinating technology. It'll be interesting to see how this fares in the future.
That's exactly what Elon Musk said!
Absolutely incredible. CEO Seshu Madhavapeddy seems like a really fun and humble guy too.
I hope he stays that way when his genius invention inevitably becomes mainstream (if all his claims about performance and price are true). Huge respect. 🙌
scam. It will gunk up with dust in less than a week guaranteed.
@@fss1704 Seshu claims it has enough static pressure to be compatible with IP68 certified dustproof devices so if that's true, dust shouldn't be much of an issue.
@@Nayah9 lol, it can have the output pressure it wants but if you close the inlet all you have at the other side of the dust is less than 1 atmosphere of pressure, and that clogs. This will need a filter, a fine filter clogs very easily and reduces the input pressure.
@@fss1704 IP68 or not, if this thing pushes air out at 200km/h, I doubt any dust that enters the chip could stay there for very long due to the absolute storm that's going on inside. Only testing and time will tell I guess.
@@Nayah9 "pushes", not '"sucks", it can only suck 1 atmosphere of pressure at maximum before the inlet becomes vacuum, the gunk accumulates at the inlet, the only thing pushing air into the inlet is atmosferic pressure so that's a hard limit. Get a compressor and try to close the pressurized outlet, you can't because that's X amount of psi, now close the inlet with the finger and you'll see what i'm talking, vacuum and the atmosphere is the only stuff pushing your finger.
Brilliant invention! I remember seeing fan-free coolers using piezoelectric actuators in the past, but even those where chunky relative to these new slimmer MEMS units.
Probably the most interesting thing I saw come out of this year's CES. I hope they'll be able to make these chips within the same price range as a regular fan, otherwise this tech sounds like it's gonna be as expensive as the notebooks they're going in 🤣
There's 0% chance they can make them as cheap as a simple fan. That's pure wishful thinking.
@@Tomyb15 Patent the tech and license it to others so mass production happens
@@Tomyb15 Short-term yes for sure, but in the long term I'm curious you don't think so? =)
I don't see how a mems chip that can remove many watts of heat could get as cheap as a fan. The factories that produce them are vastly more expensive for one thing, but then they maybe have the fastest manufacturing rate on the planet if you think of transistors per second, so you never know.
Agree 100% and strongly hope they will not prevent this tech to spread to old devices through new cooling solutions replacing fans! That they will license it if they wont be willing to target this segment directly.
He did an amazing job explaining the concept! Amazing innovation. Hope this picks up soon
Can‘t expect anything less from an Indian 😂
yeah everything amazing, amazing and amazing. I had breakfast this morning and it was amazing.
I wouldn't expect it for a few years or so, and for it to be expensive at launch.
@@charizard4410 lqAAaq
If this works as described this would be revolutionary for PC handhelds. The Steam Deck operates at 15W and 6800U handhelds are going as high as 28W which is where he says is the max. I want to see this in PC handhelds next year if possible
28W of cooling requires 3 of the larger(larger footprint, but still thin) 'pro' models shown at 5:34.
@@DoubleMonoLRvery true, the real problem here is power efficiency. It’s only first gen so there’s definitely time, but by their own admission the small unit displaces 5 watts of heat while using up to 1 watt. Compare that to a standard computer fan which consumes 1-3 watts but can displace way more, and you see why the applications are super limited thus far. In a system trying to get the most out of a battery adding a more expensive cooling solution is rough. That being said it’s still really cool and just because it isn’t ready yet doesn’t mean it’ll never be.
@@LazarNaskov agreed. the efficiency is key here for sure.
Would love to see a desktop version first targeting the SFF PC market. With a better power budget there, these could be a game changer, even if less efficient than a fan/heatsink.
Yea companies like Aya Neo should definitely be taking notice of this. Maybe Valve too for their V2 Deck and why not Nintendo as well of course??
@@DoubleMonoLR that's if you're going to cool the device strictly with these units, but device manufactures have been using hybrid methods for ages now.
The Surface Pro 4 could dissipate half of its 22w heat load with a small copper pad that was under the screen and that was back in 2015.
Similarly, you can still use the airflow of this to draw air through a heat sink.
Has anyone else noticed that when technology improves, it's usually in massive jumps as opposed to small steps?
This tech wouldn't just need to make contact with the copper base, that kind of volume of air movement could potentially cool down entire tracks of components, provided the turbulence doesn't slow it down too much
This should win a CES award cuz so far this is the most high tech innovative thing. I can already see multiple uses for this like in OLED monitors so that you don't have to have a large heat sink.
OMG, you are so right! A lot of surface area at the back of an OLED display!
Guys, sure I can see some problems right off the bat. Only 5W cooling in that size and a 20% increase in overall power consumption. Unknown factors, such as reliability, durability and cost in addition. Nonetheless, plastering the whole back of an OLED display with this, hopefully running it at less than full power, might solve problems OLED is having, e.g. full white display brightness. Who knows whether that would be cost efficient, but the thin form factor would be ideal for a display as it is for thin and light laptops.
@Joe Beef Hash I think we saw it blowing stuff around. What miss?
@@jawndoekck he said they use this kind of thing on a jet
@@cali_cal The same concept, not the same implementation, potentially a very big difference. I think it's pretty safe to say that jets already have a high airflow/pressure, so implementing jet impingement is presumably relatively easy(and much larger)
Investors invest in flashy, new ideas. But the reality is that there’s so much opportunity in innovating on traditional, wide-spread technologies. As someone who works in manufacturing-tech, this is awesome! Would love to see this startup shake up what’s often perceived as a traditional, played-out space
This is amazing. I would love a comparison data table showing the difference it makes. If this works as described here, they are about to change the history of computing.
What would be the life span of the vibrating layer and thus the chip itself?
Because if it is pulsating with such speed, won't it get weared out pretty quickly?
I'm an aerospace engineer and this is brilliant. Aerodynamics at that small of a scale is fascinating, I can't believe I've never thought of this!
Now that you've seen it is it something you could prototype on your own if you had access to the tools?
@@GameTimeWhy You could probably use some sort of piezoelectric material for the flexible surface and 3D print the rest but I'm definitely not smart enough to do so 😂 The moving surface makes the aerodynamics very complicated. I most do space stuff anyways so this is a bit out of my scope
@@itseu the curse of being a specialist! Luckily I've never specialized in anything! Haha
I know there isn't air in space but I wonder if these types of cooling/heat distribution concepts will have any impact on cooling in space. I've just read that cooling in space is a really big issue.
@@GameTimeWhy space is cold so i guess we dont need much cooling :))
@@nguyennam1945 there aren't enough particles to "pull" heat away. Overheating is a really big issue in space exploration.
So it seems to me you could use a heat pipe/vapor chamber setup that ends with a big, flat piece of copper that you can mount like 4 or 6 or 8 of these things on in order to supply more cooling capacity for higher power processors, especially if you are dealing with a desktop CPU where you are much less limited on space. The fact that this breaks through the boundary layer of air makes me think that it would allow for much more efficient or much higher power cooling systems on desktops, even in its current generation which isn't really built for that purpose. Speaking of which, I wonder if end users could buy these things with a connector and/or adapter that lets it plug into a standard PWM fan connector, and either is directly controllable with that or an adapter is able to convert the PWM signal to whatever this thing takes as its control signal.
Exactly what I was thinking, this tech has a lot of potential to scale using heat pipes.
I don't expect to see them available for end users to purchase any time soon, but I could be wrong. It just seems like this has it's best application in laptops and hand held devices. There is very little advantage to using this tech in a desktop vs traditional fans and would not be worth the additional cost.
@@nyquillusdillwad9119 How about high TDP single slot GPU cards?
I'm not 100% sure if I fully get the insides, but perhaps for desktop use they could increase the copper heatsink surface vertically to get more airflow and thus more cooling
You still need space to duct the exhaust air away, so there will be limits on density.
I still get this part of the presentation.
What is the boundary layer?
I really hope this will scale up quickly and can move to higher wattage cooling, like desktops CPUs and GPUs. Maybe we can have the 2-slot or even 1-slot cards back.
This is pretty huge. I'm just imagining how much more power you can squeeze out of snapdragon chipsets with this. With powerful active cooling, you could release a quest 2 without having to change any hardware really, and get massive performance gains.
Sounds like some kind of piezioelectric die chamber. Breaking the boundary layer would indeed make it incredibly efficient. I have to say that the product sounds very innovative and effective. I can't wait to see it in the market.
yes, but no.
Its EMS, he said that. Like the mini speaker or the mic on your phone. But used to other purposes.
@Karl with a K According to the article: "Because of the high back pressure, he said, the intake holes can be covered with an IP68 waterproof/dustproof material, allowing a laptop maker to prevent dust and other particles from coating the inside of a laptop."
@Karl with a K he talks about it at 6:00 mr genius
@Karl with a K "falsehoods" LMFAO, fuckin loser
I apologise for not knowing the interviewer, but that was definitely 1 of the best interviews I have heard in a long time. Every question asked, and it really helps that it was a great product to review, you can't help but imagine applications. Can't wait to see this product in the future
I thought the interviewer sucked personally. His head-shaking was the most annoying thing I've ever watched as he shook his head yes every two words that came out of the guy's mouth. It was as if he didn't understand a word the guy was saying but just shook his head yes the entire time. And to top it all off, he didn't even ask him how long his device lasts, which is the most important question that you could ask.
My thoughts exactly!
At first I thought this was going to be a more advanced peltier and not that interesting. But the technology he describes is extremely fascinating and smart. I hope this technology takes off and is able to improve and become mainstream even in desktop PC's.
Ditto. I saw "solid state active cooling" and thought "so, a peltier?" I scrolled past, but after a few seconds figured I'd give it a shot and watch the video first before condemning it.
I'm glad I did! While I'm not going to go as far as many others to say "this will revolutionize cooling!!!" it does address the boundary layer issue in a creative way. Do I think it will be successful? Of course not, no proof of concept ever is, but this guy's trying something new and it's a path worth following at least a little to see where it goes.
Why's he gotta diss fans as 100 year old tech, though? There's a ton of modern tech that goes into fan blade modeling even now.
Yeah, that is where I was at. Did the peltier thing back in the socket 7 days with mixed results and one burned motherboard. Ditched it after I saw the problems with certain situations were I did not want to put a client PC at risk.
Came to roll my eyes in front of another Peltier-like device, and am glad I did. This definitely looks interesting. Problem with Peltier is that they are used to either have a fine control over the temperature, or if used in cooling only act as heat pump, but don't help much in transferring the heat to another middle (air) very efficiently. So basically in a cooling system they would rather replace heatpipes, and also saturate quickly at higher heatflows because of back-conduction through the semiconductors. Looking forward to see where this tech leads.
@@zierlyn To be fair, he is specifically focusing on a single market. Plus, typical putting down the competition. My bet is that this will show up in extremely expensive Ultrabooks. He said it's commercially viable, but it very well be 100x the price of an equivalent ($0.50) fan. I know I'd buy it though.
it already has, for decades. it is used in industrial setting because of the lot higher pricepoint.
if this guy can make it competeable cheap enough then he is onto something, but the technical concept is really old
Wow, in the past I read PC-World magazine, I didn't know they were on TH-cam until I found this video, I like the discussion of this revolutionary cooler, where the explanation is still with the characteristics of PC-World magazine.
Glad you found us!
-Adam
how is 120mph air silent. Airflow has a sound. Curious to see the progress of these and some practical demonstrations as well as some larger versions for standard desktop cooling if that is possible.
cell and wifi radio signals to ruin the animals' brains.. super loud, high-pitched cooling in every mobile device to kill animals' hearing.
1. expected cost per unit, or at least cost relative to current active laptop cpu coolers
2. durability. does it last longer if kept at a constant frequency, how many hours of on time, etc
3. ease of replacement. is this mounted to the heat producing components the same way as conventional coolers
i know intel's allegedly working with this company, but i would like some honest ballparks for those three questions :)
Need to go directly on the CPU directly on top as you use this "jet-effect", so physics dictate to be onto the heat source to use the high velocity of the single air molecules.
Good questions.
I also wonder:
- how hot is the air that flows out of the device
- can it be used with air cooling combined for cooling more powerfull processors
- what if really hot part of the processor in on just small part of this plate. Wii it be able to take out the heat?
As a stickler for thermals on all my builds, this is super exciting. I've always just decided that I wouldn't worry about noise levels, or even dust collection that much, for the sake of maximum cooling. I just wear headphones and clean them every now and then. Being able to have a silent build that I don't have to clean and still manages to effectively cool all the components makes me giddy to think about.
small holes are the perfect dust filter, that shit will get stuck pretty fast.
Wow.. this is going to be huge. Imagine the size change potential for a GPU covered in these vs the current 3 fan setup!
Simple ventilation applications would be great for future versions of this too. I'm sure the people living on the ISS would appreciate some of these too. It seems pretty loud in there since the air needs recirculated constantly
Actually these exists in space already. The tech isn't new
@@yozul1 Maybe you can combine heating with this fan to get heating+airflow at the same time
@@spacecowboy07723 Piezoelectric Fans?
@@Wigglylove regular fans already do that
@@Anonymous-qb4vc yes that's it!
I think this must be one of the coolest products of ces, I am really surprised that so few outlets covered this! I hope this will lead to some real innovation in cooling, the thing with huge coolers was kinda cool when we went from passive cooled gpu's, but now it is just getting ridiculous, like watercooling is almost more space efficient at this point!
This is not a new technology. LTT reviewed this a while back, and showed it's only useful in some niche industrial applications, but not so much in the applications this guy is suggesting like in a notebook. So yeah, I'm guessing that's why this is not exactly worldwide news.
@@imnotdavidxnsx Perhaps its not cost effective enough to replace normal fans yet/ever?
@@imnotdavidxnsx LTT didn't do any video on this technology.
@@imnotdavidxnsx no that was different tech using piezoelectric to produce the vibrations
@@supercool_saiyan5670 which is what this is doing...
I imagine this would be amazing for VR / AR rigs, lowering heat buildup and weight
It would certainly make an interesting cooler for the screen of a VR headset, I'm not sure if the vibrations would be felt though.
What heat in VR/AR ???
@@Gamehighlight2023 VR/AR systems need to be lightweight and small to prevent head and neck strain. Small systems doing big graphics tend to get _very_ hot, and need cooling to compensate. This is why most of them have cables to the main graphics processor instead of putting it on the goggles. This video's cooling could allow more of that tech to be put into the goggles themselves, possibly going wireless (though bluetooth / wireless adds heat too)
I wonder; normally, when the computer fan dies, we know that the fan isn't working, because we don't hear its sound. How about this one? How do we know if it dies?
It's a gamechanger for the handheld gaming consoles, the focus on which is usually on power + lightness. So this device will eventually bring a lot of change to them.
I'm starting to think that nintendo might have a contract with them if everyhting goes well
This is super interesting and exciting. Can you imagine when this matures and you can apply it to high end gaming laptops? The performance may come much closer to their desktop counterparts. This is so amazing
Problem with laptops is you are stuck with the same components.
@@j.a.3138 That's only a problem if those components aren't replaceable with new ones when they fail, or if the laptop owner becomes dissatisfied with the performance of those components. Very often, laptop owners don't care about having the best in class computing performance, because they just simply do not need that amount of power. I've seen laptop owners keep the same laptop for 10 years or more and not need anything new, only upgrading the hdd to a ssd, and perhaps adding/upgrading the memory sticks.
Everytime i open a Laptop i see so much dust. Especially in the cooling mechanism. That tiny holes seem to clog up very fast
@@MrRobin4444 Depends on the design... my desktop clogs more dust than my laptop. Both without dust filters
@@j.a.3138 There is the Framework company with modular laptops... I hope they can improve the modularity with this jet air technology and make it possible for the availability of modular graphic cards for laptop.
Fantastic invention. This is definitely Next Gen stuff. I'm also glad they discussed the wattage it consumes, which is very low. I hope they do very well for their accomplishment. Hope they are able to scale to service the massive demands of laptop manufacturers, or license out the design to leverage 3rd party manufacturing plants.
Oh yeah this is huge it will be everywhere. I would buy one for my CPU in my desktop today if it were available
@@CrowClouds It depends how long they can last. People won’t want them if they shorten their laptops shelf life.
You're saying the wattage it consumes is low, but it really isn't if we consider that the mini one uses 1w to cool 5w, in these terms it's currently much less efficient than fans. Their current value proposition is thinness, quietness, and scalability + improvable technology, not power efficiency.
But the technology is absolutely impressive and I can't wait for future generations of it!
@@CrowClouds 12700k has a base TDP of 125W, going up to 190W at max. Their bigger cooler model cools off 10W. So, unfortunately, even if this was available, you wouldn't put it on your CPU just yet.
Let's give the technology some time though, it might get there. 👌
@@Segrey Actually, its on par with current laptop fans which consume between 0.5 and 1.5 W, and closer to the higher number when demand increases. Note also that he stated that the 1W value is the max for the solid state ones. Typically, it would be less since its efficiency is so high vs. standard fans with all their backflow issues.
If they can get their prices to be competitive, look for these to be mass produced and be included in just about every future laptop made.
Would be great to see a variety of these for older laptops to allow for overclocking and extending life spans of these devices.
This presentation had so much more potential, especially from a fluid mechanics and engineering perspective. I’m sure in a few years, they make an amazing video explaining boundary layer flow, back pressures and other topics so people without the background can also understand!!
Amazing technology!
Why he never did build Notebook on them ?
Loud, noobs never care for that, headset !
The old guy is NOT a gamer, he needs less noise !
This is awesome, pretty rare that I ever see tech I've never heard of before. Had no idea you could make air pressure from something like that.
This is actually brilliant. We'll see the issues that may arise, but conceptually, this is awesome. Wrapping my head around this: It's using the oscillating wave of the membrane to creates huge pressure differentials zones, then moves air down the x-axis, and expels it smoothly but with force due to the membranes whipping motion at the tail end/near outlet, almost like how dive fins generate force. It's pretty much a sine wave in a square syringe.
Edit: Also, I wonder for extra thermal performance will they essentially make a mini radiator but each fin containing it's own membrane with the inlet on one side.
Yes, that's how I understand it too, as for the radiator part, not exactly sure want you mean. Do mean basically having a not-a-fan chip per hole in the radiator? If so, I imagine that because of the huge back pressure compared to normal fans, you might actually have the same layout as now (first the fan/frore chip and 'downwind' the radiator), but with way denser radiators because the back pressure might allow the air through anyway. In combination with what mr. Madhavapeddy said, the radiator might be a radiator-dust filter combo. And since more radiator fins = more cooling, that might allow even greater cooling potential :)
Given the velocity of the output air, dust could be handled with a miniature cyclone filter.
Issue: superhot exhaust air that will burn your skin! You almost have to mix in some cold air with a venturi or similar before pumping it outside the device. But seems to be an awesome technology.
The radiator idea is as good !
How long do membranes last under conditions like this? Is stretching or tearing an issue?
Breakthrough technology. I see parallels with memory taking the silicon route and grow exponentially in capacity despite remaining the same size. Huge potential with the thermal system hooking to silicon. Best wishes to Frore systems.
By watching this video and getting to know about this airjet chip, I feel exactly like how people would have felt when they had come across desktop computer or internet for the first time. Engineering is amazing!!🤯🤯
haha true :) ... I was wondering "Wow! If this really comes to the market and becomes a successful product, I would be so damn happy that I've known about it already'
haha true :) ... I was wondering "Wow! If this really comes to the market and becomes a successful product, I would be so damn happy that I've known about it already'
The reveal that operation is silent took this product from awesome to "I'll believe it when I see it". Looking forward to seeing reviews of notebooks, etc. using it!
it will never get to a computer, it's a matter of 2-3days for it to get gunked up with dust, every time the guy goes "it's dust proof" the other changes subject because he knows it's not.
Air at 124 MPH is hardly silent even if the overall volume is low. For higher power devices air will need to be drawn from outside the chassis making dust a issue. Preventing implosion in the membranes also seems like a serious issue as materials stretch & fracture over time.
i bet 124 is just an initial speed directly from MEMS. It looses it on a 90dergree turn. But a dust spec could clog it if its big enough.
@@GrafTrahula If this design is blowing into a heatsink as they said. They have to maintain the air speed though the heatsink or convert into very high pressure, or the air would stall reversing flow though the membrane.
So the product acts as both a fan and a radiator?
This is honestly mindblowing, there's so many potential applications...
Really hoping this makes it to market and can be an affordable technology! If everything stated is true, this could be a real game-changer in miniaturizing cooling solutions. Very impressive.
Yes as long as its an reasonable price and reliable. I can see this replacing watercooled and fan setups.
Looks very promising. You could quite easily slap these on chipsets and other small chips as well (maybe ram if you have the space but I'm not sure). In fact depending on how effectively it sucks in air and expels it from an open space you could just use them to improve airflow in a case. All depending on the price and if it becomes available to general consumers of course. Hopefully we hear more from them and they don't vanish.
I wonder if the plan would be to just exhaust into the case/enclosure and then have a traditional case fan exhaust that heat. Seems like they would be pulling in warmer air though if you had multiple of these in one enclosure. We may be looking at a new PC form factor for the desktop with these in mind unless you have intake tubes to these for outside air. For video cards it would be easier because they can directly exhaust out the back like they do now, but you'd still want lower temp outside air than the warmer internal ambient temps.
@@robertherman58 I see liquid cooling with radiators designed around these chips. He talks about using vapor chambers with them, which is essentially passive liquid cooling. Lets you put them where they would best get or remove air, not on the components themselves.
I was going into this very sceptical, but if the price for this is right it can actually have a lot of applications. I would still expect this to mostly be used for laptops and over all small devices that are heavily limited by thermals.
If they ever manage to get it working with a desktop, expect that it will cover most of the backside of the motherboardand be paired up with some form of liquid cooling. A cellphone, tablet or low powered laptop might be able to use a chip like this if they can make it work, but much bigger than that is going to have issues with just how much air they can move past the chip and just how much heat the air can suck up.
If this truly functions as advertised then I think this is massive. This is exactly the kind of innovation I want to see!
The skeptic in me has a LOT of questions but I'll just start with the most important questions first :
1) What are the dangers of the device? There have to be some as it's essentially a compressor in a chip format. Compressing air itself generates heat. Moreover, they're aiming for a higher heat saturation percentage which means the temperature is going to get high and it might straight up be a fire hazard. I also imagine that the "vibrating membranes" themselves will fry out if the inlets are blocked. What kinds of exit temps are we looking at? Having a mini jets besides your fingers doesn't sound like a good idea.
2) What is the lifespan of the device? I imagine shooting dust particles at a relatively high speeds won't result in a product that lasts for very long and the copper substrate is going to get damaged.
3) What is the device rated for in terms of PPM? As there's dust everywhere and there has to be a rated environment for it.
Honestly, I can only see a use for these devices in fabs and nowhere else.
I know the interviewer has a history of simping and getting too excited, but I'm surprised he didn't ask these kind of questions. This is why I prefer GN over him. GN is never going to spare these sorts of questions just to "have" an interview.
Very clever product, well done for them!
If they can retrofit these into currently existing fan sizes, they will be onto a lot of money, so many things use fans and could do with being silent! (looking at you, 3d printers).
Also imagine walking into a data centre without having corridors of angry racks screaming at you!
It’s the coolest thing in a while
@@GOGEDIT 😅
imagine if they scale up the tecnology and use it on planes
data centre with fan cooling..?
@@Ivu yes data centres are really loud
WOW ! I imagine that this innovation will take computing and mobile devices to the next level. Great job Seshu Madhavapeddy and keep up the great innovations coming
This will revolutionize mobile hardware if it's power efficient
The issue I see with mobile devices is they will need an outlet for this air to go somewhere. This will be a big issue for waterproofing.
This is nothing new for 10 years! Why no one use? Because it eats power quickly.
@@IhsanMujdeci the difference is that with this product you could put an ip68 airfilter while still being very more cooler then normal methods, cause the back pressure is so high. so there will be vents for the air to get in and out as with all moving air applications, but it would be a dust and water filtered channel.
@@MrDragonorp that's a great consideration. I was thinking more of when it's submerged in water. Then this fan solution would need to stop running for some time and/or the passive cooling would have to be enough and maybe the cpu will throttle down.
Oh wow, this is genuinely incredible. Looking forward to seeing this in consumer devices soon!
It seems so natural that i have used to it allready. Great job!