One thing to keep in mind, just because the intonation is spot on with these fretboards, it doesn't mean you're going to get a completely robotic sound. A lot of commenters seem to be afraid of losing the guitars "feel" or "sound" but there is still a factor of how much pressure you put on the note, how your fingers are pulling etc. It's all going to still sound how you want it to, just that the center of the note is going to be true. For example if I'm recording a solo and I know I'm going to have a heavy hand on the B string, I'll purposely tune it a bit flat because I know my pressure is going to make it sharp. This is still going to happen - Just that you don't need to worry about you intonation being off as much. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I'm interpreting it.
AngrySoup The idea that this guitar would sound robotic is simply a flawed premise to begin with. There is nothing robotic sounding about Just intonation. Have you ever held down a chord and adjusted the tuning of each string until it sound perfectly beautiful? I have. It's not a robotic sound. It's lovely. But that's not a useful thing to do on a traditional guitar because that will throw you so far out of Equal Temperament that no other chords will be playable. The sole purpose of Anders' guitar is to allow you to make any chord in any key sound that good.
Here we are 14 years later and TT is still an expensive luxury. It's a real shame because once you play guitar for a few years you start to notice how badly out of tune they are. And you start to notice what a relief and a pleasure it is to hear a TT guitar.
@ShadowLancer128 - I think (and I may be wrong) the fact that the harmonics of chords are more perfectly in tune means that the strings resonate sympathetically better and therefore for longer, increasing sustain. I played a Sanden VRB TT and it sounds absolutely beautiful. My ears are definitely spoilt now and it's harder to go back to normal frets... :)
Precisely. A section of violins playing completely in-tune with each other will be 100 times louder and more resonant than a section that is even a bit out
ok,i have always been frustrated at being in tune at the nut but out in higher positions and now i discover this this fabulous innovation my mind is packed full of questions . can anyone who has made the transition please tell me was it difficult to play at first ?did it feel alien or set your playing back or was it an easy transition ? also are there any production (electric) guitar models out there (brand names please)? a trip to the bank may be immenent :p
true temperament seems to help the guitar to resonate more cleanly because the notes are always going to be more in tune and the frequency waves wont cancel each other out to the same extent. As a fretless bass player i find when playing multiple notes if my intonation is right on the resonance is much more pleasing.
you are right. that's what bach's well tempered clavier is about. but even if we split the scale to 12 equal notes, the guitar still falls short. some adjustments are necessary. i want to play one to see.
Point is, it's about personal choice. If you look the list of people who've adopted the system so far, I don't see many hacks who are trying to compensate for mediocre playing. Most of them were already solid players on regular guitars before deciding that the new system was interesting enough to incorporate. I haven't tried it out myself, so I really can't comment on its effectiveness myself.
I too thought it was "character" but after hearing it the well tempered sound feels just sooooooo right... I think as the prices drop a bit this fretting will become THE standard
Seems out of tune i think the problem with guitars is the gauges of strings used and the height of frets. Having a tailpiece or a tele style bridge plus the angle of headstock and the distance of mechanics from nut are other important factors for intonation.
@@dobrodave123 check out our Roberto-Venn School of Luthiery's own Grad/Cert. Christopher Owen doing a demonstration that took well over 4 hrs for the level crown and polish alone at Crimson Custom Guitars! th-cam.com/video/-VNhTvjE_xI/w-d-xo.html
Needs to be cheaper though, i appreciate this guy deserves money for his work but it's not getting out there enough frankly it's too expensive and it should be all over the guitar scene like wild fire by now. Still i appreciate he deserves a lot of respect and riches for this, thank you Anders, you have made an amazing contribution to the instrument that classical masters would shake your hand for.
I am glad that people are thinking about tuning again after hundreds of years of neglect. But we should really be thinking about it and not just jump on the bandwagon and think on system or another is a "cure" for tuning problems. Any fret placement system meant to give just tuning is going to favor one type of chord shape over another, say E, A and D bar chords. Get those right and the open G and C won't work.
I think this guitar would need to stay in standard tuning as changing the note each string is tuned to will have an on going effect on subsequent notes up the board in relation to where the fret is
Please answer! can this intonation craziness thing be fixed by having an adjustable nut? It's to do with the length from the 12th fret to both nut and bridge be equal right? Microfrets have adjustable nut saddles, and they are from the 60s.
I don't think it's fair bash traditional equal temperament. I'm 16 years old and I'm fascinated by this type of sound physics, and (as is very common with members of my generation) I'm all for new trends. This revolution in guitar building and playing is no exception. Still, I believe there's a lot of validity in traditional electric guitars and their use, should the user find the proper application. I prefer the sound of true temperament, but in reality, this is a different breed of instrument.
well my friend ...you see with a normal fret board for every chord you play theres always some strings that sound a little off ..just a tad bit off tune ...well with true temperament you get a clean tone and every chord you play sounds so clear
so how do string bends work a guitar like this? Whenever you bend it wouldn't it go on to a different height of the fret and sound wierd? Or am I not thinking something through right?
"how did myriads of players manage to cope with the "problems" of straight frets for all these years of guitar playing?" Same way millions of computer users became proficient with the QWERTY keyboard, even though the design was specifically intended to slow down typing. Like you said, humans will always adapt to a system, no matter how unintuitive, if they use it long enough.
i need a true temperament fretboard! when i first started playing i didnt know much but as the years went by i noticed that every time i tried tuning my guitar and thought it was "perfectly tuned" i would play the a chord and hear a note slightly off tune... as i tried tuning that one string while holding that same chord i would play the d chord and AGAIN!! ah i HATED hearing that! oh well i have to deal with what i have for right now.. it doesnt bother me as much anymore but damn!
Lol I hated slap bass for years, because it just sounded squanky. Randomly I heard some slap bass played on an even temperment and it instantly sounds perfect. Honestly I never understood why I was a bigger fan of keyboard music than guitar music, I guess now I know. It's funny I started playing fretless bass this summer and overnight my ear training got X100 times better, I guess now I know why.
you can buy a cheap guitar and then order a TT-Neck for it (from warmoth) . The Neck costs about 800 Dollar. Then you just have to swap your neck with the TT-neck. That would be the easiest option. But i wouldnt use such a neck on a cheap guitar ^^
It is very useful! Guitar players were never fully in tune. There was always that slight out of tune note when playing certain chords. I hear it all the time. I can get my guitar perfectly in tune and it would sound perfect for a couple of chords, but the rest are fucked up. They are totally not subtle. I am not a machine and can hear those detunings perfectly. Character my ass. Being out of tune shows that you suck at tuning. What character? You mean that you have a shitty ear?
Making a tool or an instrument easier to use does not reduce the value of the art. What it does is reduce the interference between the mind of the artist and the art its self. The more accurate and flexible the tool, the closer the produced sound is to the sound envisaged in the mind of it's creator. Nemogre I think you are in love with the established image of the world of guitar, more than with music and all it's possibilities. If you don't want innovation.. stick to your traditions.
@theguitarhero1000000 Notes don't work the same as the mathematical principle we use to make guitars, regular guitars are good in tune, true temperament guitar are even better in tune.
Yea a lil bit of dissonance nvr hurt, but then again some will need a clean and tuned sounding once a while depending on ur music. Maybe every professional guitarist would consider having one guitar wif these if u wanna
to be honest, I don't hear any difference and my ears are VERY sensitive to pitch. anyway I think it's a great idea but unless all instruments in a band have this system it's useless for obvious reasons
Demo was somewhat annoying. If you want to demonstrate why they're useful play CHORDS, b/c single note stuff will only sound marginally better to those with perfect pitch...
the prototype guitar looks fuckin impossible to play, and bends sound horrible on it, but I would assume he;s got all the kinks (get it) out of it by now. lol
Lol! Hahahahahaha! Why give disabled people wheelchairs? Learn to live it! Its to enhance the guitars sound! If you dont want it, then dont get it. Theres room in this world for TT-fretted AND normal frets. I dont see the purpose for your message.
![[Guitar Vlog] I played a weird guitar - ft. Adam Neely](/img/n.gif)
Finally a true temper video not drenched in distortion!!!!
One thing to keep in mind, just because the intonation is spot on with these fretboards, it doesn't mean you're going to get a completely robotic sound.
A lot of commenters seem to be afraid of losing the guitars "feel" or "sound" but there is still a factor of how much pressure you put on the note, how your fingers are pulling etc.
It's all going to still sound how you want it to, just that the center of the note is going to be true.
For example if I'm recording a solo and I know I'm going to have a heavy hand on the B string, I'll purposely tune it a bit flat because I know my pressure is going to make it sharp.
This is still going to happen - Just that you don't need to worry about you intonation being off as much.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I'm interpreting it.
AngrySoup The idea that this guitar would sound robotic is simply a flawed premise to begin with. There is nothing robotic sounding about Just intonation. Have you ever held down a chord and adjusted the tuning of each string until it sound perfectly beautiful? I have. It's not a robotic sound. It's lovely. But that's not a useful thing to do on a traditional guitar because that will throw you so far out of Equal Temperament that no other chords will be playable. The sole purpose of Anders' guitar is to allow you to make any chord in any key sound that good.
Here we are 14 years later and TT is still an expensive luxury. It's a real shame because once you play guitar for a few years you start to notice how badly out of tune they are. And you start to notice what a relief and a pleasure it is to hear a TT guitar.
I so have to get one of these guitars! Hopefully this will eventually become mainstream
Never happen. It's too expensive. It's much cheaper to make a cheap guitar.
So this has been a thing for YEARS, and here I am thinking this was a Strandberg innovation...
That's right Alen. Anders Thidell, the inventor of True Temperament, replaced the old fretboard on my Loef guitar in 2008. Amazing invention...
nice piece of music
amazing!!! i was thrilled!!!
Erik Borelius ! So great playing !!!!!!!!!!!!
Its progress and it hurts nobody, which is rare for progress, so why do people hate the idea?
im buying that! Now we are free, beautifull piece.
@ShadowLancer128 - I think (and I may be wrong) the fact that the harmonics of chords are more perfectly in tune means that the strings resonate sympathetically better and therefore for longer, increasing sustain. I played a Sanden VRB TT and it sounds absolutely beautiful. My ears are definitely spoilt now and it's harder to go back to normal frets... :)
Precisely. A section of violins playing completely in-tune with each other will be 100 times louder and more resonant than a section that is even a bit out
SWEET❣ 💗🎶🥰🎶💗
By bending the strings on a true temperament guitar you can add the detuned flavourings at will. It's much harder to do the opposite.
ok,i have always been frustrated at being in tune at the nut but out in higher positions and now i discover this this fabulous innovation my mind is packed full of questions . can anyone who has made the transition please tell me was it difficult to play at first ?did it feel alien or set your playing back or was it an easy transition ? also are there any production (electric) guitar models out there (brand names please)? a trip to the bank may be immenent :p
true temperament seems to help the guitar to resonate more cleanly because the notes are always going to be more in tune and the frequency waves wont cancel each other out to the same extent.
As a fretless bass player i find when playing multiple notes if my intonation is right on the resonance is much more pleasing.
you are right. that's what bach's well tempered clavier is about. but even if we split the scale to 12 equal notes, the guitar still falls short. some adjustments are necessary. i want to play one to see.
Point is, it's about personal choice. If you look the list of people who've adopted the system so far, I don't see many hacks who are trying to compensate for mediocre playing. Most of them were already solid players on regular guitars before deciding that the new system was interesting enough to incorporate. I haven't tried it out myself, so I really can't comment on its effectiveness myself.
I too thought it was "character" but after hearing it the well tempered sound feels just sooooooo right... I think as the prices drop a bit this fretting will become THE standard
Seems out of tune i think the problem with guitars is the gauges of strings used and the height of frets. Having a tailpiece or a tele style bridge plus the angle of headstock and the distance of mechanics from nut are other important factors for intonation.
As a luthier, I sure wouldn't even dream of attempting a re-fret.
I guess 'dress them' is what got me. Maybe not too bad but, certainly a bit more work. Cool stuff !
@@dobrodave123 check out our Roberto-Venn School of Luthiery's own Grad/Cert. Christopher Owen doing a demonstration that took well over 4 hrs for the level crown and polish alone at Crimson Custom Guitars! th-cam.com/video/-VNhTvjE_xI/w-d-xo.html
Needs to be cheaper though, i appreciate this guy deserves money for his work but it's not getting out there enough frankly it's too expensive and it should be all over the guitar scene like wild fire by now. Still i appreciate he deserves a lot of respect and riches for this, thank you Anders, you have made an amazing contribution to the instrument that classical masters would shake your hand for.
They do
I am glad that people are thinking about tuning again after hundreds of years of neglect. But we should really be thinking about it and not just jump on the bandwagon and think on system or another is a "cure" for tuning problems. Any fret placement system meant to give just tuning is going to favor one type of chord shape over another, say E, A and D bar chords. Get those right and the open G and C won't work.
I think this guitar would need to stay in standard tuning as changing the note each string is tuned to will have an on going effect on subsequent notes up the board in relation to where the fret is
Please answer! can this intonation craziness thing be fixed by having an adjustable nut? It's to do with the length from the 12th fret to both nut and bridge be equal right? Microfrets have adjustable nut saddles, and they are from the 60s.
I don't think it's fair bash traditional equal temperament. I'm 16 years old and I'm fascinated by this type of sound physics, and (as is very common with members of my generation) I'm all for new trends. This revolution in guitar building and playing is no exception. Still, I believe there's a lot of validity in traditional electric guitars and their use, should the user find the proper application. I prefer the sound of true temperament, but in reality, this is a different breed of instrument.
well my friend ...you see with a normal fret board for every chord you play theres always some strings that sound a little off ..just a tad bit off tune ...well with true temperament you get a clean tone and every chord you play sounds so clear
so how do string bends work a guitar like this? Whenever you bend it wouldn't it go on to a different height of the fret and sound wierd? Or am I not thinking something through right?
@pyrobunny9 Surprisingly it doesn't effect bends at all.
"how did myriads of players manage to cope with the "problems" of straight frets for all these years of guitar playing?"
Same way millions of computer users became proficient with the QWERTY keyboard, even though the design was specifically intended to slow down typing. Like you said, humans will always adapt to a system, no matter how unintuitive, if they use it long enough.
every note on my guitar is in tune why do i need this?
i need a true temperament fretboard! when i first started playing i didnt know much but as the years went by i noticed that every time i tried tuning my guitar and thought it was "perfectly tuned" i would play the a chord and hear a note slightly off tune... as i tried tuning that one string while holding that same chord i would play the d chord and AGAIN!! ah i HATED hearing that! oh well i have to deal with what i have for right now.. it doesnt bother me as much anymore but damn!
That was interesting.
man blir stolt att vara svensk nu ju! :)
Dra åt helvete vilket sound! xD
grymt bra ljud på gitarren
hade man varit rik hade man köpt den utan att blinka hehe tänk vad bra glassbilsmelodin kan låta på den där gitarren =)
Lol I hated slap bass for years, because it just sounded squanky. Randomly I heard some slap bass played on an even temperment and it instantly sounds perfect. Honestly I never understood why I was a bigger fan of keyboard music than guitar music, I guess now I know. It's funny I started playing fretless bass this summer and overnight my ear training got X100 times better, I guess now I know why.
How easy is it to bend a string on this fingerboard?
Whats the name of the guitar
Hello Levi. It's a Loef www.loefguitars.fi
you can buy a cheap guitar and then order a TT-Neck for it (from warmoth) . The Neck costs about 800 Dollar.
Then you just have to swap your neck with the TT-neck. That would be the easiest option. But i wouldnt use such a neck on a cheap guitar ^^
It is very useful! Guitar players were never fully in tune. There was always that slight out of tune note when playing certain chords. I hear it all the time. I can get my guitar perfectly in tune and it would sound perfect for a couple of chords, but the rest are fucked up. They are totally not subtle. I am not a machine and can hear those detunings perfectly. Character my ass. Being out of tune shows that you suck at tuning. What character? You mean that you have a shitty ear?
what about bendings??? doesnt this sound kind of shitty if you bend over frets formed like that???
Those frets would be a nightmare to dress!
th-cam.com/video/-VNhTvjE_xI/w-d-xo.html
Du är bäst Erik ;), såg förresten filmen igår, din version är bättre!
kram cj
If everything sounds in tune to you, your ears are not developed enough to say that these frets are useless. Because they're not.
Sounds like they're still playing the music made for equal temperament .
Making a tool or an instrument easier to use does not reduce the value of the art. What it does is reduce the interference between the mind of the artist and the art its self.
The more accurate and flexible the tool, the closer the produced sound is to the sound envisaged in the mind of it's creator.
Nemogre I think you are in love with the established image of the world of guitar, more than with music and all it's possibilities. If you don't want innovation.. stick to your traditions.
He broke into Hanz Zimmer + Lisa Gerrard from Gladiator, like wtf LOL
Liked it though.
Erik Seastead His album, "Movies on a String," is soundtracks played on acoustic guitar.
Anyone else reckon he noticed that his frets are wonky?
@theguitarhero1000000 Notes don't work the same as the mathematical principle we use to make guitars, regular guitars are good in tune, true temperament guitar are even better in tune.
I'd love to hear this guitar played in the 432 Hz tuning
Why not 431? or 434.5? 432Hz is a myth, do soem decent research and you;ll discover you've been had.
dammit i want a neck like that!!!! T_T
Yea a lil bit of dissonance nvr hurt, but then again some will need a clean and tuned sounding once a while depending on ur music. Maybe every professional guitarist would consider having one guitar wif these if u wanna
du är så sjukt grymmmm så det inte är sant :)
Do a bending :v
I'm sure it's great until you try out alternate tunings
to be honest, I don't hear any difference and my ears are VERY sensitive to pitch. anyway I think it's a great idea but unless all instruments in a band have this system it's useless for obvious reasons
Demo was somewhat annoying. If you want to demonstrate why they're useful play CHORDS, b/c single note stuff will only sound marginally better to those with perfect pitch...
the prototype guitar looks fuckin impossible to play, and bends sound horrible on it,
but I would assume he;s got all the kinks (get it) out of it by now. lol
Lol! Hahahahahaha!
Why give disabled people wheelchairs? Learn to live it!
Its to enhance the guitars sound! If you dont want it, then dont get it. Theres room in this world for TT-fretted AND normal frets.
I dont see the purpose for your message.