I Mounted a Motor to My Velomobile - But Why?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
- I mounted a 250 W TSDZ2 electric assist system to my Quatrevelo velomobile. Why I did it and does it make any sense?
The installation went pretty smoothly. The most time consuming things were to mount the display unit & speed sensor. The actual motor installation was very easy, because I could do most of the installation on the workbench instead of inside the velomobile.
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***** Chapters: *****
0:00 Intro
0:19 Mounting parts to the Quatrevelo
1:41 Installing the TSDZ2 motor
3:17 Test ride
4:36 This motor has some problems
5:32 How it feels to ride?
6:50 Launch control
7:28 The speed test
8:41 This electric assist is completely useless
9:49 What if you run out of battery?
10:19 Why I want this kind of useless e-assist?
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I recently installed the same motor on my regular streetbike. I don't need it much when riding regularly, but when I have a trailer with my two kids plus groceries I am happy for it! And that's why I got it: we want to replace our car as main transport for short ranges.
Hello Sauki, I have a Similar setup with a BBS01 in my QV . Range 500+ km but I live in the mid German Hillside and it made my life A LOT easier! Before doing groceries was hell now 5km 6% climb is still hard work but at least I live! Good luck in winter
Indeed! Sigh!
Closed road... XD
I ride mostly in the Cascade Mountains. Which can be a bit on the hilly side. I put a Bafang BBSHD on. 65T chainring, with a SRAM Eagle GX Lunar derailleur, and 10-54T cassette and 150mm cranks. Going up hill, my speed has increased from 8 mph average to 13 mph. Which is nice. I use two 48V 20Ah batteries, hooked up in parallel, which comes in handy on those 15 mile 8% grades. In Winter, the assist needs to be set at 1 or 2 sometimes, to keep from washing out the rear end. If you can keep the speed up above 6 or 7 mph, going up hill on the ice, you can use a setting of 3 or 4, which is nice. I'm not sure how it will all work on the flats in Winter, as we don't have much of that, like you do in Western Siberia. I look forward to seeing how you do, with the Quattro.
Outstanding informative video as always.
I bought one of these around the time you posted the video. The torque sensing is indeed really good, but i've built myself a little reprogramming cable using an ST link usb stick and there are all sorts of open source firmwares you can try. Emmebrusa is especially good and has a graphical user interface, it allows you to customise your settings to a high degree and some of the alternate modes are interesting like EMTB mode which seems to be more aggressive on the acceleration and more responsive to the amount of power you put in, which might be good for snow. You can also get the display to show the voltage and calibrate it to have a fairly accurate battery % and correct the speedo weirdness by adjusting the wheel size properly. Plus you can up the power level to 500w on any of the 36v motors, but only on a closed road ;)
I'm just getting started with this but I was very pleasantly surprised with the Tongsheng out of the box, I got it to rehab a knee injury without temporarily giving up cycling and im already getting solid exercise which was rare on my bafang motors I have owned in the past.
Great how you go the extra mile testing new stuff 👍
Great vid.
If your break cut off do not prove to be durable, then you should try a magnetic reed switch.
I switched my cargo bike from wire rim breaks to hydraulic rim breaks, as they work much, much better. Though the break cut-offs I had only worked with wire breaks, and thus I used magnetic reed switches to do the break cut off (actually regen breaking) - it works great. I can send you a couple of pictures if need be.
Thank you for this video and the informations!
Now I‘m sure that I will get a motor in my velomobil because there are many hills in my area and on my commute.
Thanks for sharing that info. I added a hub motor to my 2 wheel recumbent and found pretty much the same experience. Being able to pull away at junctions from standstill is really the main advantage I can think of. Though we do have some hills here in Somerset England and the motor means I can climb them without having to stop and push. Once you reach about 15-16 MPH the motor stops pushing and it is very easy to get to that speed on a recumbent so I never run out of battery power.
move the wheelspeed magnet closer inwards to the center of the wheel but leave the fork mount where it is. it'll trick it into thinking your wheelspeed is lower and it'll provide assistance at slightly faster speeds.
Thanks Saukki! I use this motor on my grasshopper recumbent to haul my bike camper. The brake sensors on the levers are not needed, just pedal back and the motor stops immediately (needed when shifting gears while accelerating in a rush). I have the 48V version, higher cadences seem to be possible on that version, at least high enough for my taste (I guess 80 rpm in my case)
Prittiguud! Some nice Lauri vibes here 👍❤
I used to average more than the max assist speed before I had my trike assisted, but it still made a good difference to my average - those “little” hills used to hit the average quite hard.
I can already say that the cold and miserable autumn weather is slowing my average speed quite a much, so now my speed drops below the max assist limit quite often. So the motor is starting to help quite a much even here with those tiny hills 😄
I have the TSDZ2 on quest xs, love it because there are many hills here. Becareful with overheating, have done about 25000km with the tsdz2
Really nice project.
Wanted to give a big 'Thank You!' Your experience parallels my own in several surprising ways.
My Catrike Villager has a Bafang BBSO2 installed because I use it to cycle to work and back in the summer. To work is all downhill. Home is all uphill with two steep sections. Mine is a cadence sensing motor. I had a bike with a torque sensor, but I have sciatica, and one leg doesn't work so well, which meant the motor, which fed power 180° out of phase, gave my bad leg no help at all, and my good one got kicked hard, so I decided to get the Villager for my back, and the cadence sensing BBSO2 for my legs. First thing I discovered was I needed a larger chainring. I have a Shimano Nexus 8 internal hub, and once I was hitting 40km/h I was running out of gears. My preferred cadence is 70 to 75 and I just couldn't keep up. I switched from a 44 tooth to a 52 tooth, which means I now run out of gears at about 56km/h on the downhills, which suits me fine. Motor cuts out at 31km/h, just to stay legal. Also has a throttle installed, which I only use at intersections for the same reason you do, or when my sciatica flares and my bad leg starts kicking up a shine. I do not get anywhere near the range you do, but then again I'm about a third heavier (in my estimation), and I still had to add 5 to 10 kg of tools to the back to keep all three wheels on the ground when braking hard on the downhills. Really don't want to hit ice that way... that would not end well.
I look forward to your next video!
Happy trails!
Oh, and I forgot to mention, isn't burning out on gravel a blast?! Just be careful not to do it on sharp stuff or you won't be going very far...
Don't ask me how I know.
It was kind of embarrassing.
And expensive...
🙄
Finally something where a chainless drive system makes sense. Any crank length, any cadence, simplified construction at the cost of some range.
Battery pack mounts are surprisingly sturdy.
I have mounted mine on a scooter using only two bolts and a fabricated flange. Scooter does not have any suspension and I'm using it regularly on forest trails including some (slow) downhill. After several 100 km still no issues.
I have this exact same motor but with a 750-watt rated controller. A note for the 750 watt versions for us US folk: Yes, you can disable the speed limiter in the 'hidden menu' (info 4 times fast on bootup with the display we usually get), but the TSDZ was originally designed as a 250-watt motor so it *will* get hot. I cooked mine and now have about half the power I'm supposed to.
They don't really sell Velomobiles in the US. But if they did I'd love to batantly break some laws and throw a Cyclone 3kw unit into one for a laugh, considering you're going as fast as a lot of store-bought E-bikes do *here*, on a smaller motor than mine with it's limiter intact... I bet that velo would scream running a lot more power.
Your your Channel is very important and knowledgeable
I love the TSDZ2 in my Strada but I live in a hilly area so it makes a lot of sense for me. Unfortunately I bought it just before they brought out the new model. When I got my Milan I fitted the motor to the Strada and thought it would be relegated to transport while the Milan would be used for training and racing but I sometimes still choose to train with the Strada as well. I find my heart rate is higher on the Strada than the Milan when doing hills because I am spinning rather than grinding..... and doing 3 times the speed. I use the Strada when I want to do higher cadence training. I will often do more loops with the Strada as well so I actually stay out longer too. Velomobiles are great either with or without e-assist but I don't think I would bother with the motor if I lived somewhere flat. I just wish I had some closed roads round here because the 25km/h is a bit restrictive!!! The e-assist is great for getting up to 15mph and staying there but at that point I am probably still going uphill or levelling off to a flat section and then there is a hard push to add a few more mph before the aerodynamics kick in. I think 20-30mph would be a much better limit. It would mainly be used on uphills and would stop me being such an obstruction to other traffic. On any kind of downhill I would likely be going faster than that anyway. 1 mistake I made was going for the biggest battery I could find as I thought I might need it for longer journeys. I have done a 65 mile ride and used less than half my battery so it is worthwhile getting something that meets your needs, but that is difficult to identify. I wish I had gone for 2 smaller batteries rather than 1 large one so I could save weight on smaller rides. Gearing is difficult with e-assist. I wasn't able to get a front derailleur to work due to the distance between the mount and the chainrings so I only have a single 56T chainring (I have 26" rear wheel rather than the QVs 20"). Even that is too big for steep hills but anything smaller is too small for the flats and downhills. I struggled to get up Leith Hill with the motor (it was easier on the Strada with Mountaindrive before I fitted the motor). I wondered if the motor cut out due to heat at the point I really needed it because it felt like it was adding little value but I noticed the additional weight. I haven't attempted the really steep hills yet. If my battery died then I might struggle to get home.
move the wheelspeed sensor mount closer to the center of the wheel and leave the fork mount where it is. Should get you assistance to a higher speed before it cuts out.
It sounded like it helped on uphills which is useful in hilly areas, like in the Alps. This way I can get the workout while also not blocking the traffic going uphill.
Hi saukki i also have made my Qv electric With the bafang bbso1 motor. and have a 36v 24.5A battery. and if i cycle in the highest settings number 9 and i cycle at a speed between 37 / 42 i will cycle at 1 volt every 25km because when my battery is full it says 42 volt and at 36 volt or less it will give less power. so on the first 6 volts i ride 150km and i can discharge the battery to 28 volt but i never do that. but i made mine electric so ican cycle to my family more often and dont pay 30 euro for a one way train ticket. so i can understand that you made it electric for the winter. and you will love it when u are used to it.
As I watched you manufacturer the battery bracket then bolt to your Quatrovelo carbon fiber floor that the vibration factor over time might just rip a hole in Your Quat, thought I would make two aluminum plates 6x5 inches rectangle plates one under side, and inside Quatrovelo bit larger then the battery bolt pattern then your aluminum mounts would be secured to plates the plates to the carbon fiber floor. Also just thinking (not something I'm know for) your brackets are bented! My Batteries on my trike are flat the full surface of the mount and the battery. Only wish I had a Quatreovelo (yea, I spelled Quatreovelo correctly, first time) thanks for the great videos. 👍 yes I did
This is a really interesting but also kind of strange video. But at the end I understand why you did this.
I find that the electric motor is much better at getting me up hill's in wintertime. the smooth torque delivery prevents the wheels from spinning, normally i would spin at every pedal-stroke and maybe not be able to climb some slippery hill's.
I have the 500w version and they can be tuned for speed/cadence/pedal input with appropriate software. I've never tried though
On my AeroTilt I use a RH212 Hub motor so I can benefit from regenerative braking (very useful on a 45kg e-velomobile)
I have 3 riding modes via the Cycle Analyst: 'eco' mode (max speed 27km/h), 'tourism' (35km/h) and 'unlimited'.
Battery is 2kwh, average consumption is 2.5 wh/km.
Max range: more than 500 km.
I have insurance for pedelec up to 45km/h
the higher cadence cadence is the reason i went with a bafang bbs02 350w with an eggrider v2 display so i can limit it to 25/hr and 250 w .
Whole time I was thinking "WHY?", as the velo i faster than what e-assist is (legally) is able to help you with most of the time, your country has like ZERO hills (sorry, that is NOT an UPHILL at the slightest) but getting ready for winter actually makes sense. Wonder about actual results, hope you will keep us posted!
nobody cares about the 12mph rule and most travel at 40mph in 30 zones and most are doing 90mph on motorways tho 70mph is the limit.
Never let dweeb betas dictate how fast you travel. Politicians who make our rules are all lame specimens .
if you just mount the magnet closer to the center of the wheel you can trick the system into thinking your wheelspeed is lower, no?
@@TheCraigy83 and cars are crash tested at 40mph so when you crash at 90 you're pretty fucked.
@@0xsergy no, it counts RPMs - frequency at which magnet Is passing by. Diameter on which it happened Is completely irrelevant.
Ermmm, if he wanted to make it electric and he wasn't going to ride in winter. It still wouldn't matter, its his vehicle and make your vehicle electric is not illegal.
YESS!!!
Stock tsdz2 has cadence limit of 90 rpm but with open source firmware you can get much more information and higher cadence and even power. 48V version also seems to run cooler, but you can run 36v motor version at 48v and have high torque at even 120 pedal rpm.
I think that the power peak is at comparatively low cadence because the motor is meant to increase its help when the cyclist goes lazier and slows down the cadence... 🤔 just a possible interpretation! As for hub motors, personally I don't think they should be considered as a way to turn the vehicle into a moped, rather into a tandem with a very small robotic stoker (often quite dull indeed 😅). In summer the e-assist may be felt on low hills, but the help in busy crossings is even more precious IMHO! Last, to answer your question, yes it's gonna make a huge difference in snowy conditions, I noticed it when I tried to go on a gravel road (quite a deep layer of stones indeed) with a trike: no way on muscles only, ran smoothly with the motor. Though, the 4velo may also have ground clearance issues... It's gonna be an interesting challenge!
Our winter here in the middle of Canada can get quite cold. I ride my Bafang BBSHD equipped fat bike during the winter until the weather is minus 20 C. Range is cut quite a bit by the cold so what I,ve done is make a battery blanket from the closed cell foam that stores here sell as camping mats. When the weather nears minus 20 I slip a couple chemical hand warmers between the battery and the cover..
his battery being under his butt should help his range.
And for your winter rides, I recomend a bit or thermal isolation for the battery, they really don´t like freezing and loose a LOT of durability when cold!
Klas, Yes you are correct. There's a giant database already supporting what you're saying with all of the electric cars on the road nowadays. I drove a Tesla P85 for four years and although it doesn't get extremely cold in northern California, I did notice less range in the winter time. The firmware in their systems diverts a certain amount of battery power to maintain a set temperature range for the sake of battery durability. Obviously, we don't have that luxury for E bikes or E-Velos, due to weight limit constraints for some type of thermal battery maintenance system.
How about maybe making a briefcase-like slot and when you want to use it, you put it in a hoist in the velomobile and connect the wires. And when you don't need to use it, you pull the plugs and remove the slot by the handle. There's a lot of space in the back.
In some states in USA, electric bike motors can assist up to 28mph or 45km/hr with motors up to 750 watts and still be legal. I guess there's one good thing about living here. I'll keep my DF XL 100% human powered but am modifying a trike with an electric motor. Great video and superb editing skills!
What state? There is class 3 that allows for 28mph, but most states don’t allow that amount of assist on the roads, only private properties. That is unfortunately the case here in MN.
@@mnveloguy Hi Ben! I'm in California and vehicle code says up to 28mph for class 3 ebikes. For more info, search "class 3 ebike california".
It's real nice!
@@pedalpowercycling We have class 3 here in minnesota as well, but you can't legally drive a class 3 e-bike on the road. It defies logic to have class 3 in that case, but you may want to clarify the legal roadworthy nature of class 3 in your state.
@@pedalpowercycling It appears Minnesota changed their laws in the last year and we can also now have assist to 28mph on roads and trails. I would not ride that fast an a bike trail/path though. Too dangerous, but for commuting on road it's great.
@@mnveloguy NC is class 3 also, but running that speed on a mixed use path is a very bad idea. The one thing I found out is people are assholes. I'm doing 25 in a 25 and I get yelled at for not using the mixed use path that runs along side. There are BIG signs telling drivers to share the road with bikes because the city does not want road bikes killing pedestrians. The road connects the state park gravel roads (lots of gravel bikes use them) with the city roads that have dedicated bike lanes.
I hardly ever use the e-part of my e-bike. But it does come in handy when going across busy roads. I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.
You can modify the cadence of a Bafang BBS01 by using a 48v battery. I use a 44v battery and the cadence is about 95 rpm which suits my natural 90 rpm cadence. With full camping gear on board the range of my 14.5 Ah battery is 185 km. I really wish I had hills like yours!
8:03 brother dpnt worry we will not try this at home. But we will try this on the road.. hahahahahah
I wouldn't recommend discharging the lithium battery too low, especially with such generic brands. You risc damaging it permanently, best keep it in range fom 10 to 90 percent if you want to get maximum life out of it.
You could use a "trick" to move the speed sensor somewhere near the cranks 😁, that would appear to the motor controller as if you are moving much slower then you actually are. With much lower speed limit you would actually get assist on higher speeds. I use this trick on my Bosch pedalec and it is working flawlessly.
speed sensor can stay on the wheel, just move the magnet closer to the hub and it'll read lower speed(keep the fork part where it is)
@@0xsergy I don't think that will work, since the "speed" sensor is actually just measuring the frequency of the wheel rotations. The frequency will remain the same regardless of position of the magnet.
I would think if you set the computer setting to a smaller tire diameter you can trick it to give you a higher actual speed
Outstanding video! I don't know how I haven't found your Channel previously. From your "accent", quite sure I'm living in your country 😉.
Is there a utility version of these bikes? Would be great to find one which can carry my dog and i.
Thanks for sharing.
I have the motor and I can tell you, it isn't 80nm. I have also the bafang 350w and I compared them. As you have no hills, the tsdz2 is faster. The bafang is stronger, but that is 100w more than my tsdz2, so I think that they are about the same.
I prefer the tsdz2 because of the torque sensor. It feels a lot more natural.
I also had to learn to gear lighter and I noticed that the range also got a lot bigger. With the bafang, I needed to gear even lighter.
The tsdz2 is noisy, but as you put enough grease on the gears, the noise will be lower.
I retrofitted my old Flevobike Alleweder with a Bafang BBS02 set to 6 Amps @ 48 Volts max. power consumption.
In NZ, we don't have the speed limit just a W limit on the motor (300W), so I'm thinking of putting one in a Quest I'm hoping to buy. City I live in is completely flat but I do intend to use it to go up to 30km to get to airsoft events.
One thing I would like to know is what the luggage compartment is like for a Quest? Would it fit airsoft guns and gear easily? Would it fit a small dog for just general outing?
For you. It makes sense for fast take offs and that is it.
My commute is roughly 30 km each way, i am thinking about switching to a velomobile, and would definitely install an assist motor for the hills.
I have a total of 400 meter climbs on the way to my office, and 500 meters on my way home, so having a battery to help me makes the return trip four hours instead of five (which could just break the deal). I wish I had *two* batteries in parallel, so that I could use the assist more actively - now I have to be a bit conservative in using it.
4 hours to get to work and another 4 to return? Is there time to actually work?
@@antoniocruz8083 No, the entire return journey is four hours. Two hours each way. Well, I do this a few times a year, realistically.
@@IsakSwahn yes, you need to go faster, almost like a motorbike.
Have you seen the "revonte one" steeples gear and e-assist in the crank. Made in Finland.
I have electrified my QV as I have hills. It is much better now!
The motor will run happy a higher cadence if you overvolt it. If you dont want to change battery, install a voltage converter, then you can dial up until hi volt cutoff
There is also a secret "blood code" tsd menu
And a thumb throttle your kit did not come with. Plugs into HUD
I use all this stuff to haul metric tons using a cheap bicycle, or when 45kmh empty (42v upright position)
Not the voltage converter just fresh battery ;)
The newer computer is worse apparently, in the old LCD version you could input the circumference (or diameter?) in millimeters
I would set the wheel diameter to 16". And the max. speed to 25 km/h. So when the police is checking, you have 25 km/h set.
In Germany there is a 10% range, so setting to 27 km/h maybe is ok. But not 28 km/h. I have done about 6000 km with self build pedelec 25 km/h and 14000 km with S-pedelec 45 km/h and never had any problems. But police would maybe take the bike for checks after a crash, so be safe about this.
That’s a good idea. I definietly will try to set the wheel size to 16”.
Many electric bikes around here seem to go 28 km/h gps speed even though the limit is set to 25. 🤔
@@TheVelomobileChannel most diy ebikes go 50 kph easily. Limitations are arbitrary.
A $100 Chinese hub motor can put down a few kw continuous, in a velo that would be very fast.
@@TheVelomobileChannel Speed limits are fluid because pedelecs for EU market are manufactured according to EN 15194 directive which states that max speed must be 25 km/h ± 10% (production conformity check). Therefore 27,49 km/h is gut und 28 km/h ist verboten illegal moped. By the way EN 15194:2017 applies to pedelecs with maximum saddle height of 635mm and. I am not sure how it is implemented in Finland, is it explicitly mentioned in road code or not. If it is then to be legal your tdz2 conversion has to be certified by a warranted engineer as compliant with EN Standard 15194:2017. EU bureaucracy and legislation can be sometimes wonderfully overcomplicated.
@@elchupacabra1666 This just proves, that this is a legal issue, the physics about an electric bike or velomobile is not a limit. Imagine how our transport could be more effective, when not driving in a 2 tons of electric vehicle, but in a 50 kg streamlined velomobile. But we have to change the laws and make security regulations and maybee new kind of bike paths.
Why are your police so authoritarian? Do they hate bikers and want everybody on public transportation? America police just don’t want us running over pedestrians or being a nuisance.
Tip: To fix the RPM issue, install the OpenSource firmware ;-)
I like both of my motors the bbshd and my tsdz2 both of them work on the same battery but the bbshd is so power hungry
Hello Saukki, I would like feedback on the velomobile I am about to build from scratch. It is based on the Tesla Cybertruck and I am making a 40% scaled version into a velomobile.
It's going to be 4x4 and have electric assistance. I want it to be close to what a Cybertruck would be like if it was pedal powered and scaled down to a single seater.
The earliest of the videos on my channel show the template version.
You need to try drifting again with the motor.
Voltage limits not only the power but the rpm of the motor so your cadence is also limited. 48V is best with Tongsheng.
check out lightning rods big block and you can always add a torque sensor in the kit I blv yeah it's 10kw but you can program to 28kph 😉 it would be a rocket to 28 but still the limit
I love my e-assist on my trike but I run out of pedal speed at 40 kmh. I really need more gears
Hi there, thanks for the video. Is this solution implementable also for the Alpha 7? Cheers and all the best!
It might be possible. Though the bottom bracket mount from Velomobiel.nl probably won’t fit to A7. So you have to use the original BB mount. With that the motor won’t be in the center. Also I’m not sure how much there is room in the A7. With the motor the Q-factor of the cranks will be much wider. I don’t know if it’s too wide for A7.
Thank you for the information! Appreciated 😊
Finally :D
the 48v version will support higher cadence.
Looks like you don't have the open source firmware (same as I have on my ICE). I found that you do need the speed sensor to be operational as the controller will shut off (time set in menu, 10 minutes max) if it sees no events happening. Events which count is active speed sensor input and assist level changes. I found this when I lost my speed sensor and decided to just go without it as I use my GPS for speed readouts and never look at the motor display for it. I began to experience motor shutoff while riding and after a while I realized that it was basically the same time period as I had set for motor shut off with no activity detected. I ordered a replacement sensor and while riding had to remember to change the assist level and then back to where I originally had it in order to ride without the motor shutting off. Also as I understand it the open source firmware option allows you to set the wheel diameter to increments smaller than an inch so the readout will be more accurate.
Yeah, it is good for those who live near hills.
Discharging battery to zero is not a good idea, if you want it to serve for long time.
I did it so you don’t have to do it 😄
I like this "don't try this at home" lol
1000w motor next please!
you make LAUNCH CONTROL VELOMOBILE !!
You are living in the wrong area for a motor. I would be happy to have one here in the hilly terrain.
Regards.
I wish there was a smaller solution for a motor in a Velomobile. Even something with about 100W would be enough for helping in a Velomobile. I really wish a Fazua or something like the Grüber assist could be integrated into the bottom bracket.
hub assist for the regen braking?
@@0xsergy would be great, but many new ones have a swingarm that is only supported on one side. That makes a hub motor not an easy option. The one thing most have in common is the forward pedal mount.
250w is already anemic. If anything a 750w would be better, moves the idea of car ,,replacement''' closer to the masses
It maxes out at 50-55? Lol, that's the same as my MTB. At least you'll probably go upslope much faster than me. Probably faster than me on my road bike upslope too.
You're definitely faster all around normally though lol.
Moikka Sauki. What area are you cycling in? I've seen an orange velomobile in the Pirkanmaa area. Was it you?
Saukkki how long last the accus you use for the liting system normally hold can the big battery does it also not only the motor but the lights as well
Few weeks on my normal use. Commuting every day. Mostly on daytime running lights, occasionally full beam when dark. I could run the lights from the drive battery, but I want to keep the light system separate from the motor system. It simplifies the installation & it’s easy to switch the motor back to Mountain Drive if I want to do so in the summer.
@@TheVelomobileChannel the reason I did ask so easy to get your smaller light accus to extend your trips when doing brevets or long trips you do yearly to vacation sites and have to charge your phone or even GoPro
i have made 4 s7 18650 accus 12 v per with 4200 mah to a battery for that otherwise i need moror cycle battery foer same
Open source firmware will fix that cadence limit.
Hot water bottles recommended for heating the akkupack.
You may find that your battery performance wIll be poor in the cold and that some insulation round it may help.
I’m definietly going to test that. There’s quite a lot warmer inside the velomobile than outside, so it will be interesting to test if the battery needs any insulation and if so, how much.
I think the Velomobile would be better in the winter just because you add a heater on a spare battery lol Can you close it completely to keep the rain out ?
This makes me wonder if can on bülk mk1
The battery will past longer if you perform small charges in instead of deep charges.
Bonjour Sauki, tu as réussi à placer un schlumf sur un moteur électrique? J’ai pas du bien comprendre 😀.
Bafang BBSHD / I would want throttle to use for starts when necessary ! BUT I am 66 🤙🏼
Brake sensors not required with tsdz2.
Easyst velo can completly replace car actuali Katanga work on project which want to create velo kind vehickle with electrick motor and speed limit 45km/h.
Ecars biggest limitation is range and when you get to car size range batery use most of the power just to move itself and car frame but velo is light and e version dont really need much so all those electric car snobs should buy evelo since its most effective wai how to use energy...
how did you connect the brake to the motor?
What do you mean? I connected it with the brake sensor connector. I soldered the extension between the sensor and the connector.
Would be interesting with a fully motorized Velomobile with something like a 20kW motor and a larger, structural battery pack.
Why would you need such a powerful motor on a light and streamline vehicle like a velomobile? It doesn’t make sense.
@@TheVelomobileChannel Perhaps 5-10kW would be more suited, but it definitely would be great with something significantly more powerful than 250W.
Either way if you go with too much power you can always tune it down. Can't turn a 5kW motor up to 7kW nominal output if you find it a little lacking.
Besides, a significant battery would add significant weight, so it would need more power to compensate. Still, it would be far more efficient than any Tesla. If I'm not mistaken it would even beat the Aptera.
The idea is to get it powerful and light like an illegally powerful electric scooter. The Dualtron Thunder 2 is a 10kW 47kg vehicle. But if the Velomobile could have a power/weight ratio closer to that of a premium electric motorcycle (like Energica Ego's 107kW/280kg ≈ 1kW per 3.6kg with rider) it would be amazing. With that, 20kW doesn't seem that crazy. If you weigh 80kg and the battery weighs 30kg, a 20kW motor would just be 1kW per 7kg.
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This is a bit of a tangent, but the absolute ideal vehicle for me would be maybe 10-25% larger than a velomobile with the interior comfort of a lighter luxury sportscar, fully enclosable and with an HVAC unit. Slightly bigger wheels like the CanAm Spyder or BMW i3. A second seat behind the driver which provides room for either a passenger or medium sized luggage. It should still be reclined/sporty/F1 style seating, but entry should be side entry. It's a bit of a departure from the velomobile, but overall it should take the same aerodynamic, skinny shape. But more of a mix between car and motorcycle than car and bicycle, and more comfortable seats than a bent plank, and no pedals, at least no need for them.
I've been bookmarking almost a hundred different videos of wildly different vehicles and failed attempts at making an appealing microcar, I've taken a lot of notes over the past 2 years and I'm narrowing into something I'd genuinely like to prototype. If I decide to go for it I'll probably be able to start next year, but I still want a clearer idea of what I'm dealing with and some well defined options for the look. I'm also trying to figure out what effect a lifted rear like the Aptera or Agoria Bluepoint would have on drag with a low front belly and enclosed rear wheels, and how to avoid turning it into a drag-inducing accidental janky diffuser. Anyways, I believe physical development should start with a rough prototype for the interior fit and optimizing the door for easy and quick entry and exit, after that is figured out it can be scanned and 3d modeled further, print a miniature, maybe 1:20 scale, then build a basic frame at the defined shape and size to mount the drivetrain, steering and seats to test how well it performs. If the result is good I'd like to move on to design for manufacture.
I'm writing this partly to expand on my response to you for you to read if you're interested, partly as an excuse to think about development and further refine my goals and my pitch.
You can simplify the installation by ignoring the brake sensor and putting the speed sensor on the rear axle. Cheers!
True, the brake sensor is kind of useless. But if mounted at the rear, the speed sensor needs probably additional extension cable.
@@TheVelomobileChannel
I don't know how it is with your motor, but for Bafang you can buy extension cables that are easily connected to existing sockets.
Yes, I meant that then I would just have to buy one more extension cable as I already have one 😄
Just a note on discharging your battery. They have a built in circuit that prevents it from discharging to a true 0%. If it did discharge all the way, your battery is basically ruined and it will not charge after that. I'm surprised you only went with a 250 watt motor considering the weight of the Velomobile + your weight. For climbing hills a 500 - 750 watt would make more sense. In Canada, our legal max is 500 watts which is what I have on my bike. I only use the pedal assist for hills and the rest of the time it's just me-power. Is there a law in Finland restricting you to 250 watts?
In EU the max assist power for regular pedelec bikes is 250W. You can get up to 1 kW pedelec, but then you would have to buy a traffic insurance for it.
NICE....
American here, currently setting up a 5kwh bike for 800km range, how much range do you get out of that tiny little 1kwh battery?
1kwh battery for ebike in 2024 is not small, is at least medium. 5kwh is actually a big battery for current times
@@ironman8257 sorry, I ask because I’m unsure of my calculations, and was hoping someone with a similar vehicle could give me some real world data, the build now has 6.4 kWh!
The problem is the temperature, if it's about 0 C degree, the battery will lost about 40% of capacity.
Maybe you need adding some hot water bag on the battery when the temperature is too low.
That we will see in the winter. I store the velo & battery in warm garage, so the battery will allways be warm when I start my commute. In winter I probably have to use the motor quite a lot so the battery might generate some heat during the ride. Maybe I make some kind of cover for the battery to keep the heat inside.
@@TheVelomobileChannel
th-cam.com/video/c7q-9lOXbwM/w-d-xo.html
If you'd like to see, it's about adding the warm cover to the battery. Guy in this video ride with E assist in -20 C.
Dont see a big drop i capacity on my battery on "cold" days.. On a normal day i use about 50% - on a cold day (around zero) 60% on my commute. (when stored warm)
@@MrMichaelfalk That seems about right. It's not that you use much more energy on a cold day but less of the energy in the battery is usable when it is cold. So as long as the battery is cold you can only use 60% of its capacity but that other 40% gets available again as soon as it warms up.
What about adding a Rolhoff 14 hub to your Quatrovelo ? Yea, I know there expensive.
So far i know its only a option if you buy the Qv new. But i can say the Qv with rolhoff rides very nice.
Do you know of there are any velomobiles with a small passenger seat suitable for a child ?
Yes. This one has child seat. See my full review of this Quatrevelo: th-cam.com/video/yYMHNaj_M1U/w-d-xo.html
The looks definitely closed for a long time XD
The tsdz2 runs without the speed sensor installed.
How to fix your problems:
Flash open source firmware
You can set tyre size in mm. If speed is over-reporting simply change tyre size to compensate until it's correct
Field weakening is supported which will mean the motor works at higher cadence / rpm. 120 cadence on 48v battery
Does it work with the new version of the motor & the display model which I have?
@@TheVelomobileChannel I think it depends on the pcb revision you have. People have flashed the ‘B’ model just fine but I think they had older PCB version. If not, just wait for now, it will be supported soon as it gains popularity. Just know that the open source firmware is awesome
It gives you both more power and range. How? Because it runs the motor more efficiently through vector control / field oriented control
All you do is go in your display setting, and program your wheel size. It's probably set to 26 in and that's why you're having a problem. Easy fix.
The only reason I do not attach an assist on my velomobile is due to laws.
I only need it to accelerate from 0 to 50... And especially the part 30...50km/h . Dutch law says assist is forbidden above 25km/h. (there seems to be a new law especially for electrical bikes that allows up to 45km/h I think)
If I am waiting at a traffic light, before I crossed the crossing I am at about 30km/h if there are no cars in front of me. But cars behind me that are still finding the gas pedal will soon start to honk because getting up to speed from 30...50 costs a lot of energy.
To be clear: I only need it for accelerating. Of course keeping up to speed wouldn't be a real problem if I wasn't exhausted after the 4th traffic light in a row.
If it would ever be legal, I would love to have a power doubling assist for driving away and parasitic regenerate while biking. But the motor would have to burst 300W @ 110 pedal RPM and after that it should siphon a very low amount of power into a supercap.
At least in the winter the battery won't be too affected by the cold inside the Velomobile.
4:39 just change the wheel size in the settings
Weird - why does die brake need a sensor when this is a motor at the pedals??? The motor shoud stop when you stop pedaling.
I thought only motors in the wheels need brake sensors?
My e-MTB with Bosch system at the pedals does not have sensors in the brakes.
In the city and in hilly areas the motor makes perfectly sense, but not where you live.
Itselle tuommoinen e-assist quatrovelo on jonkinlainen tulevaisuudenhaave.