Basically higher psi with the increased velocity limits the orifice size therefore limits the amount of garnet that can be used. More garnet in your water jet equals more cutting ability. lower pressure with more garnet will net better cutting/ material removal characteristics.
Definitely agree on (from actual 17 years experience) that 90,000 psi pumps are junk and that's where our agreements end as from tons of experience with several omax pumps, they are maintenance nightmares when they get over 1000 hours on them and I've never had one last 10 months without needing anything like I do with my 50 hp intensifier, it's almost unheard of but everyone with an intensifier should be getting result but it takes getting the condition of your cooling and cutting water consistency down to a science but after your set is golden its easy, oh and just a extra note on one way I achieve optimal water condition, I added a second heat exchanger not with separate water supply and not with seperate oil feeds and exits. Oil flows into first exchanger then exits into second exchanger for a second round of cooling pass through then back into the supply tank. cooling water to exchangers are two separate lines in so both has fresh non temperature altered water that meet up right after at a T for one drain out of my cabinet. As far as cutting speed between direct drive and intensifier of same spec pumps, I've never noticed any difference.
I'm going to be trained on water jet for cutting thick steel up to 6" thick for army tanks. I saw the waterjet and it's a 90K psi. My soon to be trainer told me it does blow parts and it's random, but expected. Could this be done with a 60K, or is the 90K absoultely necessary since the material is up to 6" thick ?
@@larrymasterspowerbuildingc4477 read the other comments. The higher the pressure the faster you cut. I have both, an intensifier and a direct driven pump. Intensifier much more reliable and cheaper than direct driven. No comparison. Greetings from Germany :D
This video is false and misleading. I have 8 years experience operating Flow,Omax,jet edge and Kmt waterjets, direct drive and intensifier 60ksi and 90ksi. From personal experience intensifier pumps out perform direct drive and 90ksi does cut faster while using less abrasive by a large margin.
Yeah, the reduced abrasive use seems to be conveniently avoided in this video. Not to mention he's attributing the reduced cutting speed to the higher pressure even though he says the direct drive pumps are far more efficient. Well, with the same size electric motor a more efficient pump has an advantage. It's not the pressure increase that is reducing the cutting speed but the reduced efficiency of the intensifier pump. I'm thinking of getting a waterjet in the future. Do you have any advice on which brands you could recommend and which to avoid?
@@manojvarughese4337 I have used all types of abrasives over the years. Your highest performance abrasives are typically crushed rock garnet but they come at a great cost. I use GMA 80A. a good overall value alluvial garnet. And works with cutting head sizes ranging from .010"- .020".
@@siggyincr7447 Apologies I never saw your comment. As far as which machines to avoid, it really depends on what you intend to do with the machine. Each manufacturer has weak points and areas which they excel. Not saying there's anything wrong with an Omax or direct drive pump. Rather that its misleading to say a direct drive pump cuts faster using less abrasive. The only way to use less abrasive is by increasing water volume. Your water volume is determined by pressure and orifice size so if you are running a .015" cutting head at 60KSI with 1.2lbs abrasive per minute the style of pump is irrelevant because the volume is exactly the same. Now say you have a 90ksi pump running the same setup, your water volume has nearly doubled so which one is cutting faster? My choice of machine would be based mostly on drive systems and machine types. I would say avoid ballscrews go for rack or linear motion systems and gantry type machines.
This is all bs. Omax does not even produce a 90k pump to even test. Seemed to have left out the bit that yes, it is a smaller nozzle, and less volume, what happens to water and abrasive velocity? It increses greaty which in turn cuts faster using less abrasive and less water. Been there done that...
dispatcher7007, it does kind of make sense when he explains it, if you increase speed you lose traction, increase voltage and you lose amps, in physics you never get anything for free.
His equation P = kpV and then decreasing V to get more P doesnt make sense at all! Since its multiplication on all parameters if you decrease V you dont get increased cutting power as he states but less. Basically the equation says that for a given nozzle size increasing pressure gives more cutting power, not less that he falsly states
So what you are not saying is that with 90KSI systems, you save raw material because of the thinner kerf and with a thiiner kerf, less material is abraided, effectively speeding up the cycle time.. Got it.
A bad one too. No one who knows anything about water jets has ever said that higher pressure cuts better. This guy used a technique to lure an unsuspecting customer in with a manufactured scenario that simply isn't true.
Hello Sir, can you offer me nozzles for my Admac High Pressure Waterjet machine ?? www.jh-itc.de/de/industriemaschinen/admac-aquajet.htm let me know. Thanks
darbycrash55...... You do not decrease the nozzle size. Most nozzle are the same. What is different is the orifice.....not the nozzle. If you decrease the nozzle size to as you say...."gain velocity" you are subjectgating the nozzle to forces that will cause it to become worn out quickly. That is the job of the orifice.....not the nozzle.
Im gunna say no to this, based on simple physics. So your saying 60 kpsi coming out of a 15 thou nozzle will cut faster that another system that runs higher pressure at 90 kpsi on a more focus point with a 10 thou nozzle. Im not buying that. Think about it like this whats easier to put through a wall, a framing nail or a 4x4? The one with the smaller surface area would require less force to penetrate an object.
Ok let's say this is correct. But then how you can't use the exact same arguments to argue that a 30k psi is better then a 60k psi, same as 60k psi is better then a 90kpsi? Why would be any different?! How is 1k, 5k, 10k, 30k, 60k, 90k psi comparing to each other, and why is 60k the magical number beyond which is pointless to increase the pressure?! Why is 60k psi so special? Because i can tell you we can't physically go beyond 100k psi very much - since no material known to us can handle that pressure. So on the upper part of this pressure curve is pretty clear why we don't see pressures of 200k psi or 300k psi and only up to 100k psi.
haha, what a bullshit, if I load a bullet into a pistol and shoot someone, I can either cause serious wound or kill that person, but if I just took a bullet and throw to him, the worst is make a blue black on his body. same bullet and different results, why? it is because when bullet shoot out from the gun barrel, it generate velocity from the fire arm, the velocity carry the bullet at extreme high speed and when it hit the poor guy, it can cause serious wound. now consider each abrasive particles as bullets, then you know what I am talking about, waterjet is utilizing high pressure water and convert the high pressure into high velocity through out the tinny orifice, abrasive then got suck into the mixingchamber to mix with jet stream and shoot out to produce a powerful and non stop abrasive chain saw, and use it for cutting. the truth is, when increasing the pressure, the jet stream become thinner, it will suck in less abrasive, and at meanwhile make the abrasive be more efficiently for cutting, the result is you can cut your material at faster speed while consuming less abrasive, and everyone who own a waterjet can tell you, abrasive sharing 50% or more on entire operating cost. if high pressure is not making cutting faster, and if like he said using bigger orifice can do faster cutting, then why do we need 60K psi? we might as well just use 10K psi because then we can use a very large orifice.
Haha....what a bult@%&^..... There are several inaccuracies about your theory of this vid. Among them are: A) You state..."into the mixing chamber to mix with......" Fact: There are no "mixing chambers" on a waterjet. The garnet is fed via a thin diameter plastic tube at the very last moment.....right above a feed in on the mixing tube assembly. B) You state....."it will suck in less abrasive......." Fact: No, the rate of abrasive is controlled by gravity. If there is a lessening of garnet consumption, it must be really small %. C) You state....."abrasive sharing 50% or more on entire operating cost." Fact: You need to find another jobber. You wholesaler is screwing you. Either that, or you are using gold plated garnet!
@@stressbelden5869 there is no name of mixing chamber, but I am talking about the place where the garnet mix with water . so that we call it mixing chamber, the waterjet beam generated after orifice reach speed of mach 2 or mach3, at that speed it will bring the air in the cutting head with water and create a vacuum effect which will suck in the garnet from a tube feeding garnet from the side of cutting head. it is not gravity to feed the garnet. or you can try to just drill a small hole on the cutting head and you will see garnet fill up in the tube but not in the cutting head. garnet is the biggest portion of cutting cost. it is just because most of the users did not realize it, if you calculate the cost of cutting by 1000 working hours you will use 21 tons of garnet. if one ton costs 500 USD then it is more than 10,000 USD on garnet, 1000 hours required two times changing high pressure seals and one time replacement of check valve kit which costs only less than 300 USD. the rest of the consumption on electricity and water can be calculated but definitely not as comparable to the cost of garnet.
WATERJEMARKET Systems is the leading global brands seller of waterjet cutting systems, Ultra High Pressure pumps and components for water jet systems. WATERJETMARKET’s product offerings include: KMT Pumps , WSI Pumps, Waterjet cutting nozzles, Focusing Tubes, Pneumatic Cutting Valves, Intensifier and High pressure parts, Abrasive Cutting Systems, Waterjet Spare Parts, High pressure Valves, Fittings and Tubing Products, Diamond Orifices, Sapphire Orifices, Ruby Orifices, and Robotic applications
James.....this channel is more.....much more factual. The waterjet channel is a bunch of off duty machinist just acting stupid. They cut up anything.....iron, spare tires, etc. But what does it prove? Again, that waterjet channel is just plain stupid. You will never learn anything about the operation and maintenance and application of waterjets listening to that channel. It is for people who have nothing to do with their time.
Basically higher psi with the increased velocity limits the orifice size therefore limits the amount of garnet that can be used. More garnet in your water jet equals more cutting ability. lower pressure with more garnet will net better cutting/ material removal characteristics.
had trouble with my insomnia, thanks for this
Fight club bro
Thank you for the video. Very interesting without a doubt. Seems like common physics when you put it that way. Thanks again!
Definitely agree on (from actual 17 years experience) that 90,000 psi pumps are junk and that's where our agreements end as from tons of experience with several omax pumps, they are maintenance nightmares when they get over 1000 hours on them and I've never had one last 10 months without needing anything like I do with my 50 hp intensifier, it's almost unheard of but everyone with an intensifier should be getting result but it takes getting the condition of your cooling and cutting water consistency down to a science but after your set is golden its easy, oh and just a extra note on one way I achieve optimal water condition, I added a second heat exchanger not with separate water supply and not with seperate oil feeds and exits. Oil flows into first exchanger then exits into second exchanger for a second round of cooling pass through then back into the supply tank. cooling water to exchangers are two separate lines in so both has fresh non temperature altered water that meet up right after at a T for one drain out of my cabinet. As far as cutting speed between direct drive and intensifier of same spec pumps, I've never noticed any difference.
I'm going to be trained on water jet for cutting thick steel up to 6" thick for army tanks. I saw the waterjet and it's a 90K psi. My soon to be trainer told me it does blow parts and it's random, but expected. Could this be done with a 60K, or is the 90K absoultely necessary since the material is up to 6" thick ?
@@larrymasterspowerbuildingc4477 read the other comments. The higher the pressure the faster you cut. I have both, an intensifier and a direct driven pump. Intensifier much more reliable and cheaper than direct driven. No comparison. Greetings from Germany :D
i wanna see a test cut
Good pitch but I'm happy with the 87k intensifier
what is the limiting factor on the thickness able to cut? why doees the jet get wider more far apart from the nozle?
the smaller nozzle just reduces the volume the water can take up creating a greater PSI
Reduces the volume and increases the velocity. Not PSI. Silly rabbit trix are for kids.......
This video is false and misleading. I have 8 years experience operating Flow,Omax,jet edge and Kmt waterjets, direct drive and intensifier 60ksi and 90ksi. From personal experience intensifier pumps out perform direct drive and 90ksi does cut faster while using less abrasive by a large margin.
Yeah, the reduced abrasive use seems to be conveniently avoided in this video. Not to mention he's attributing the reduced cutting speed to the higher pressure even though he says the direct drive pumps are far more efficient. Well, with the same size electric motor a more efficient pump has an advantage. It's not the pressure increase that is reducing the cutting speed but the reduced efficiency of the intensifier pump.
I'm thinking of getting a waterjet in the future. Do you have any advice on which brands you could recommend and which to avoid?
@@siggyincr7447 Seems like he doesn't
what are the abrasives used?
@@manojvarughese4337 I have used all types of abrasives over the years. Your highest performance abrasives are typically crushed rock garnet but they come at a great cost. I use GMA 80A. a good overall value alluvial garnet. And works with cutting head sizes ranging from .010"- .020".
@@siggyincr7447 Apologies I never saw your comment. As far as which machines to avoid, it really depends on what you intend to do with the machine. Each manufacturer has weak points and areas which they excel. Not saying there's anything wrong with an Omax or direct drive pump. Rather that its misleading to say a direct drive pump cuts faster using less abrasive. The only way to use less abrasive is by increasing water volume. Your water volume is determined by pressure and orifice size so if you are running a .015" cutting head at 60KSI with 1.2lbs abrasive per minute the style of pump is irrelevant because the volume is exactly the same. Now say you have a 90ksi pump running the same setup, your water volume has nearly doubled so which one is cutting faster? My choice of machine would be based mostly on drive systems and machine types. I would say avoid ballscrews go for rack or linear motion systems and gantry type machines.
What would've been nice Side-by-side comparison, cutting the same material. Show the time elapsed video.
So, since they don't have or make one, how can they give a true comparison? I deal with this daily. I do have both. The 87k smokes the 60k.
the real question is will it blend?
This is all bs. Omax does not even produce a 90k pump to even test. Seemed to have left out the bit that yes, it is a smaller nozzle, and less volume, what happens to water and abrasive velocity? It increses greaty which in turn cuts faster using less abrasive and less water. Been there done that...
@RudeMcNasty there is one. Just search for 87k vs. 60k
dispatcher7007, it does kind of make sense when he explains it, if you increase speed you lose traction, increase voltage and you lose amps, in physics you never get anything for free.
Rob Fraser You again! You smart, weird ass dude.
+Rob Fraser I dislike your picture
I think your beard says all I need to know sir. I'll follow you anywhere.
His equation P = kpV and then decreasing V to get more P doesnt make sense at all! Since its multiplication on all parameters if you decrease V you dont get increased cutting power as he states but less. Basically the equation says that for a given nozzle size increasing pressure gives more cutting power, not less that he falsly states
He's arguing that given a 50hp pump you would need to reduce the nozzle size to work at a higher pressure.
wonder where I can get one...
Can I use 600 bar water jet pump for 5 mm metal cutting please?
I thought they were gonna shoot two waterjets at each other.
So what you are not saying is that with 90KSI systems, you save raw material because of the thinner kerf and with a thiiner kerf, less material is abraided, effectively speeding up the cycle time..
Got it.
Say nothing about the size of how wide the kerf u use up with each cut how much more metal is wasted in a wide cut
I smell a sales pitch and a company compensating for it's products.....!
A bad one too. No one who knows anything about water jets has ever said that higher pressure cuts better. This guy used a technique to lure an unsuspecting customer in with a manufactured scenario that simply isn't true.
You need mass at velocity to remove material. force = mass x acceleration. He conveniently forgot the acceleration(velocity) part of the equation.
That is included in the pressure component. Pressure is force per area, or mass x acceleration per area if you put it that way
when you decrease the nozzle size, you gain in velocity and lose pressure. Bernoulies principle.
Hello Sir, can you offer me nozzles for my Admac High Pressure Waterjet machine ??
www.jh-itc.de/de/industriemaschinen/admac-aquajet.htm
let me know.
Thanks
darbycrash55......
You do not decrease the nozzle size. Most nozzle are the same.
What is different is the orifice.....not the nozzle.
If you decrease the nozzle size to as you say...."gain velocity" you are
subjectgating the nozzle to forces that will cause it to become worn out quickly.
That is the job of the orifice.....not the nozzle.
Im gunna say no to this, based on simple physics. So your saying 60 kpsi coming out of a 15 thou nozzle will cut faster that another system that runs higher pressure at 90 kpsi on a more focus point with a 10 thou nozzle. Im not buying that. Think about it like this whats easier to put through a wall, a framing nail or a 4x4? The one with the smaller surface area would require less force to penetrate an object.
Ok let's say this is correct. But then how you can't use the exact same arguments to argue that a 30k psi is better then a 60k psi, same as 60k psi is better then a 90kpsi? Why would be any different?!
How is 1k, 5k, 10k, 30k, 60k, 90k psi comparing to each other, and why is 60k the magical number beyond which is pointless to increase the pressure?! Why is 60k psi so special? Because i can tell you we can't physically go beyond 100k psi very much - since no material known to us can handle that pressure. So on the upper part of this pressure curve is pretty clear why we don't see pressures of 200k psi or 300k psi and only up to 100k psi.
price???
Can it cut the paper? :/
But can it open my juicebox straw wrapper?
where he miad
Not convinced.
just put on same orifice and you see the better performance
with smaller orifice youll use less abrasive..
cnncarving......
No.....the orifice does not .... NOT come in contact with the garnet.
If it did.....it would be worn out in no time.
thanks you very much Sr
lamina flow is key
consistently faster cutting? ummmm okayyy
this makes no sense, if you have 50% more pressure, obsviously you have more cutting power.
haha, what a bullshit,
if I load a bullet into a pistol and shoot someone, I can either cause serious wound or kill that person, but if I just took a bullet and throw to him, the worst is make a blue black on his body.
same bullet and different results, why? it is because when bullet shoot out from the gun barrel, it generate velocity from the fire arm, the velocity carry the bullet at extreme high speed and when it hit the poor guy, it can cause serious wound.
now consider each abrasive particles as bullets, then you know what I am talking about, waterjet is utilizing high pressure water and convert the high pressure into high velocity through out the tinny orifice, abrasive then got suck into the mixingchamber to mix with jet stream and shoot out to produce a powerful and non stop abrasive chain saw, and use it for cutting.
the truth is, when increasing the pressure, the jet stream become thinner, it will suck in less abrasive, and at meanwhile make the abrasive be more efficiently for cutting, the result is you can cut your material at faster speed while consuming less abrasive, and everyone who own a waterjet can tell you, abrasive sharing 50% or more on entire operating cost.
if high pressure is not making cutting faster, and if like he said using bigger orifice can do faster cutting, then why do we need 60K psi? we might as well just use 10K psi because then we can use a very large orifice.
Haha....what a bult@%&^.....
There are several inaccuracies about your theory of this vid. Among them are:
A) You state..."into the mixing chamber to mix with......"
Fact: There are no "mixing chambers" on a waterjet. The garnet is fed via a thin
diameter plastic tube at the very last moment.....right above a feed in on
the mixing tube assembly.
B) You state....."it will suck in less abrasive......."
Fact: No, the rate of abrasive is controlled by gravity. If there is a lessening
of garnet consumption, it must be really small %.
C) You state....."abrasive sharing 50% or more on entire operating cost."
Fact: You need to find another jobber. You wholesaler is screwing you.
Either that, or you are using gold plated garnet!
張為弼 if a bullet comes out sideways and makes a sharp left... U miss. Lamina flow if water is key, like rifling
@@stressbelden5869 there is no name of mixing chamber, but I am talking about the place where the garnet mix with water . so that we call it mixing chamber,
the waterjet beam generated after orifice reach speed of mach 2 or mach3, at that speed it will bring the air in the cutting head with water and create a vacuum effect which will suck in the garnet from a tube feeding garnet from the side of cutting head. it is not gravity to feed the garnet. or you can try to just drill a small hole on the cutting head and you will see garnet fill up in the tube but not in the cutting head.
garnet is the biggest portion of cutting cost. it is just because most of the users did not realize it, if you calculate the cost of cutting by 1000 working hours you will use 21 tons of garnet. if one ton costs 500 USD then it is more than 10,000 USD on garnet, 1000 hours required two times changing high pressure seals and one time replacement of check valve kit which costs only less than 300 USD. the rest of the consumption on electricity and water can be calculated but definitely not as comparable to the cost of garnet.
"the myth is untrue" hmmm...
WATERJEMARKET Systems is the leading global brands seller of waterjet cutting systems, Ultra High Pressure pumps and components for water jet systems. WATERJETMARKET’s product offerings include: KMT Pumps , WSI Pumps, Waterjet cutting nozzles, Focusing Tubes, Pneumatic Cutting Valves, Intensifier and High pressure parts, Abrasive Cutting Systems, Waterjet Spare Parts, High pressure Valves, Fittings and Tubing Products, Diamond Orifices, Sapphire Orifices, Ruby Orifices, and Robotic applications
power = k P V. and Chuck Norris counted to infinity, twice
Wow, a big Company as OMAX ... shame on it
not true
This channel isn't as cool as the water jet channel maybe you guys should cut open some random stuff to make things more interesting
James.....this channel is more.....much more factual.
The waterjet channel is a bunch of off duty machinist just acting stupid.
They cut up anything.....iron, spare tires, etc.
But what does it prove?
Again, that waterjet channel is just plain stupid. You will never learn anything about
the operation and maintenance and application of waterjets listening to that channel.
It is for people who have nothing to do with their time.
Stress, I have decided that you are correct and hereby withdraw my comment and have unsubscribed from the waterjet channel. Good day, sir.
Boooooooooe~ring