Moar charts! Glad you mentioned UL characteristics..I am low timer in certificated aircraft. A few hundred hours in the right seat with my uncle in 172, m20, and 310. Have my LS now, but don't have the time or $$$ to go further atm. I had an unsettling experience last year in a friend's Hummel Ultracruiser UL. Could not stabilise approach at reccomend speed on final. Always too fast. Plane is so fast for 103 and wasn't equipped with flaps. Could not slip the speed down. Ended up getting on the ground safe by touching down at 55kts. In a part 103. Between you and Dan Gryder, I think my life has been saved multiple times. Look forward to seeing you out there at shows once life gets back to normal.
Dude, MORE CHARTS!!! Love data, love charts, love the quant side before you can go out and have FUN FUN FUN! Know your airplane, know its limitations, know YOUR limitations. Would love to see a simulated engine out from altitude to see how that big prop behaves at a lower RPM. Easy for me to say from my desk and computer screen. hahahaha.
Love the graphs. I appreciate the work that went into this; would you say the numbers you crunched were an improvement over the "book" values? Also, would you ever partway open the canopy (say if there was oil all over the windshield, but no fire)? How would that contribute to the drag profile? The points in this video should be "required reading" for any aviator worth their salt...
I know that this is old, but i have to point out that at 8:35 you said that lowest drag gives you best glide, which isn't exactly true. Lowest drag gives you lowest rate of descent, but actual best glide will be slightly faster, where additional extra drag (thus descent rate) will be offset by increase in horizontal speed. These two speeds are really close, and the difference does not really matter in planes, but I'm a glider pilot, and it is important with gliders.
Thanks, it's always a fine line between explaining something and alienating the audience by going into the weeds. This stuff is old hat for glider guys but can be pretty foreign for SEL guys. Thanks again for the comment.
Glide polars! In the sailplane world we really nerd out on these. While not normally applied to the landing roundout of sailplanes, it was interesting to hear how they relate to low L/D aircraft while landing power off (emergency). Landing flaps up makes a lot of sense. Fly at L/Dmax in the cleanest configuration as long as possible, in some cases even delaying gear extension. Slips could be used like spoilers on the glider for glide path control as the drag can be quickly removed if needed (unlike gear and flaps). Also, during high winds, knowledge of speed to fly theory (speed up in headwinds) could be important to make it where you want to. I'm thinking of the Thunder Mustang crash in 2010 at Reno and how the winds would have affect his approach. As I recall it was extremely windy that day (35G45 or so). If he had kept flaps up, turned base earlier, flew a bit faster on base, and extended the gear on short final, he might have made it. The normal emergency landing approach did not work that day and he was forced to land on base while pointed at jets. Lucky dude.
One of your best videos. I love the explanations and the charts. One question - why not set the prop to feather on emergency landing? In other words, set it to minimum RPM? It seems to me you would want to minimize drag? I must be missing something in the way the prop works. THANKS. Airplanes are cool!
Cool question. Depending on the failure you may not be able to control propeller pitch. Or if there is risk of a fire you may want to maximize drag to get down as fast as possible. Like this one th-cam.com/video/mvu_9dATSG0/w-d-xo.html
absolutely! I personally don't think the flaps are valuable on a forced landing. That being said I personally don't like to plan on configuration changes on final. Thank you for the comment!!
What kind of nose down pitch attitudes are you looking at their from 7:20-7:30? Looks pretty aggressive but not sure if it’s camera angle/lens effects.
Just caught your statement a little later in the vid. 20° if I interpret that correctly? Also, I personally enjoy the charts. Interesting to see the charting of the different configurations
At 9:27 it's mentioned that the nose is ~20° below the horizon in the high drag configuration (Gear/Flaps/Prop/Idle) at gear speed. Thank you for the discussion!
at 6:00, I was saying in my head, "that sounds just like how I have to manage my power off approaches in my ultralight", and then you immediately compared it to an ultralight. Great minds, or something like that... lol Probably a little late for a question but do you have much ultralight experience? If so, what are your thoughts on them?
I think that the problems you spoke of are mostly due to the fact that replicas bring same devices as bigger planes such as split flaps. They are quite a bad solution to generate lift as they generate a lot of drag aswell. When you have 1000+ hp is not a big deal, but with a proportionally smaller engine can be an issue. Have you tried an approach without going full flaps down? It might reduce drag without variating approach velocity so much.
Thank you for the comment. Both flight 1 and 2 resulted in emergency landings, and in both cases, we didn't use flaps for the landing for just the reasons you mentioned and were mentioned in the video. Like you mentioned, these plain flaps are quite big and make a lot of drag. They are more there to "look like a Mustang" than because of a design need. Thank you again for the discussion.
I'm sure you've got further testing to go, so I look forward to seeing your results for establishing a less critical standard approach that uses less flap, and isn't so dependent on power to drag it in. Like you said in the video, it does seem a little uncomfortable to be that dependent on power for that long to stay alive. In other aeroplanes the 'stay alive' thing would sound overly dramatic, but your exploration of the forced landing characteristics makes it clear that for much of a book flown final the pilot would stand little chance of recovering from that far back in the drag curve before contact with the ground. Thanks for your efforts and please keep the videos coming, they inspire me to take a more measured and analytic approach to flying my RV-8, which can only make me a better pilot.
Thank you for the comment!! The purpose here was to generate a profile that could go in a "POH" for future operators of the airplane. Which means it's way more important to fly a repeatable profile then it would be during a real emergency. Example of a real emergency in this airplane: th-cam.com/video/vgVu1YytB-I/w-d-xo.html
Moar charts! Glad you mentioned UL characteristics..I am low timer in certificated aircraft. A few hundred hours in the right seat with my uncle in 172, m20, and 310. Have my LS now, but don't have the time or $$$ to go further atm.
I had an unsettling experience last year in a friend's Hummel Ultracruiser UL. Could not stabilise approach at reccomend speed on final. Always too fast. Plane is so fast for 103 and wasn't equipped with flaps. Could not slip the speed down. Ended up getting on the ground safe by touching down at 55kts. In a part 103.
Between you and Dan Gryder, I think my life has been saved multiple times. Look forward to seeing you out there at shows once life gets back to normal.
It's nice to listen to people who actually know what they are talking about.
Dude, MORE CHARTS!!! Love data, love charts, love the quant side before you can go out and have FUN FUN FUN! Know your airplane, know its limitations, know YOUR limitations. Would love to see a simulated engine out from altitude to see how that big prop behaves at a lower RPM. Easy for me to say from my desk and computer screen. hahahaha.
Awesome, thank you.
Amen, I love it too! Charts, explanation, quantifying data points, = music to my ears.
@@Ripper13F1V Thanks man
Are you kidding? Love the charts. Great video thanks.
Thank you!!
Charts are awesome we can see it great stuff
Love the graphs and data!
Awesome, glad to hear it
Yes, love the charts! Most pilots talk about feelings. I can't trust making that field cut in the trees in the distance on feelings.
#Truth.
Love the graphs. I appreciate the work that went into this; would you say the numbers you crunched were an improvement over the "book" values? Also, would you ever partway open the canopy (say if there was oil all over the windshield, but no fire)? How would that contribute to the drag profile? The points in this video should be "required reading" for any aviator worth their salt...
The charts are great! Very informative video!
Thank you!!
My father used displacement rolls to control his decent and approach! He also used the maneuver to drop the gear as well!
I understand how much work these videos are, but please, more like this.
Thank you Sam
I know that this is old, but i have to point out that at 8:35 you said that lowest drag gives you best glide, which isn't exactly true. Lowest drag gives you lowest rate of descent, but actual best glide will be slightly faster, where additional extra drag (thus descent rate) will be offset by increase in horizontal speed. These two speeds are really close, and the difference does not really matter in planes, but I'm a glider pilot, and it is important with gliders.
Thanks, it's always a fine line between explaining something and alienating the audience by going into the weeds. This stuff is old hat for glider guys but can be pretty foreign for SEL guys. Thanks again for the comment.
Love the Miller Tig gloves
More charts!
Awesome, thank you!
One more vote for charts. Nothing locks data into my head like a good chart.
Love the charts!!
Glide polars! In the sailplane world we really nerd out on these. While not normally applied to the landing roundout of sailplanes, it was interesting to hear how they relate to low L/D aircraft while landing power off (emergency). Landing flaps up makes a lot of sense. Fly at L/Dmax in the cleanest configuration as long as possible, in some cases even delaying gear extension. Slips could be used like spoilers on the glider for glide path control as the drag can be quickly removed if needed (unlike gear and flaps). Also, during high winds, knowledge of speed to fly theory (speed up in headwinds) could be important to make it where you want to. I'm thinking of the Thunder Mustang crash in 2010 at Reno and how the winds would have affect his approach. As I recall it was extremely windy that day (35G45 or so). If he had kept flaps up, turned base earlier, flew a bit faster on base, and extended the gear on short final, he might have made it. The normal emergency landing approach did not work that day and he was forced to land on base while pointed at jets. Lucky dude.
Thanks for the note! Great to hear from you.
Very educational comintary!
Thanks
One of your best videos. I love the explanations and the charts. One question - why not set the prop to feather on emergency landing? In other words, set it to minimum RPM? It seems to me you would want to minimize drag? I must be missing something in the way the prop works. THANKS. Airplanes are cool!
Cool question.
Depending on the failure you may not be able to control propeller pitch. Or if there is risk of a fire you may want to maximize drag to get down as fast as possible. Like this one th-cam.com/video/mvu_9dATSG0/w-d-xo.html
Amazing info!
Very nicely done!
Thanks, I apprciate the note
Can you save full flaps for short final and save some drag and nose low attitude?
absolutely! I personally don't think the flaps are valuable on a forced landing. That being said I personally don't like to plan on configuration changes on final.
Thank you for the comment!!
What kind of nose down pitch attitudes are you looking at their from 7:20-7:30? Looks pretty aggressive but not sure if it’s camera angle/lens effects.
Just caught your statement a little later in the vid. 20° if I interpret that correctly? Also, I personally enjoy the charts. Interesting to see the charting of the different configurations
At 9:27 it's mentioned that the nose is ~20° below the horizon in the high drag configuration (Gear/Flaps/Prop/Idle) at gear speed.
Thank you for the discussion!
Great video!!!
Thank you!
at 6:00, I was saying in my head, "that sounds just like how I have to manage my power off approaches in my ultralight", and then you immediately compared it to an ultralight. Great minds, or something like that... lol
Probably a little late for a question but do you have much ultralight experience? If so, what are your thoughts on them?
Thanks man. I am glad all the rambling made some sense.
I think that the problems you spoke of are mostly due to the fact that replicas bring same devices as bigger planes such as split flaps. They are quite a bad solution to generate lift as they generate a lot of drag aswell. When you have 1000+ hp is not a big deal, but with a proportionally smaller engine can be an issue. Have you tried an approach without going full flaps down? It might reduce drag without variating approach velocity so much.
Thank you for the comment.
Both flight 1 and 2 resulted in emergency landings, and in both cases, we didn't use flaps for the landing for just the reasons you mentioned and were mentioned in the video.
Like you mentioned, these plain flaps are quite big and make a lot of drag. They are more there to "look like a Mustang" than because of a design need.
Thank you again for the discussion.
I'm sure you've got further testing to go, so I look forward to seeing your results for establishing a less critical standard approach that uses less flap, and isn't so dependent on power to drag it in. Like you said in the video, it does seem a little uncomfortable to be that dependent on power for that long to stay alive. In other aeroplanes the 'stay alive' thing would sound overly dramatic, but your exploration of the forced landing characteristics makes it clear that for much of a book flown final the pilot would stand little chance of recovering from that far back in the drag curve before contact with the ground.
Thanks for your efforts and please keep the videos coming, they inspire me to take a more measured and analytic approach to flying my RV-8, which can only make me a better pilot.
Spot on!
Completely off-topic, but... are those Miller welding gloves you're wearing?
They are!! Cheaper, last longer and have better protection than the nomex ones...and maverick never wore them...hahahaha
Do you shoot the up-close narration in these videos with a go-pro, or other camera? Really well shot and the narration and detail is great!
Is this an actual full size original Mustang? It seems oddly smallish in size? Anyone confirm or deny?
Thanks, its a stewart mustang. An all aluminum replica P-51 powered by a big block Chevy V8.
What make is this plane?
Need to do all this without a airspeed indicator, remember shit happens.
Thank you for the comment!!
The purpose here was to generate a profile that could go in a "POH" for future operators of the airplane. Which means it's way more important to fly a repeatable profile then it would be during a real emergency.
Example of a real emergency in this airplane:
th-cam.com/video/vgVu1YytB-I/w-d-xo.html
MOAR CHARTS
Thank you!
Great video!!