I don't know how many times I have been told that I am toxic in Spirituality groups because I always call them out for their toxic positivity and misleading vulnerable people.
Boy. Yes. I could add in way too much. Pheeew. Thank you! Thinking about that phrase that usually makes me cringe, "Trust the Universe." I wouldn't use that phrase. But, had a special moment, looking at it as an active, spiritual, universal energy.... that THAT "Universe" is to be trusted. The small voice that we chatter over. The signs. The guidance waiting to be asked. That saved my life. It's not what the "one up" folk mean. I thank my still, quiet, universal voice that finally got its say. It told me things like, "You can't do your best work when you have to hide. "
It is such a turn off! Landmark Forum was full of these people who refuse to see that there is genuine injustice and suffering in the world. Landmark is all about 'we create our own reality' therefore we and only we are responsible for everything that has happened to us. And there were survivors of child abuse in my group hearing that they created their abuse (letting their abuser off the hook). I left in disgust. Like Dr Ramani I too am not enabling this toxic and puerile nonsense. New Age groups can be even worse! Often people join them in the hope of finding comfort, help and compassion only to be told that everything is their fault because they created 'asked for' it. Fragile and vulnerable people are not safe in these groups. Landmark freaks out if you so much as mention the S (suicide - thoughts of) word - it is a great way to get a full refund and watch them run a mile.
My ex-friend's spouse literally ran away from home. He realized all her belongings and she disappeared when he came back home from work. He looks so nice and kind. I'm scared of imagining what he did.
It reminds me of another one I heard the other day: "You can't be loved until you love yourself." These platitudes tell people their misfortune isn't real, but if it is, they brought it on themselves with their mindset.
Yes! If you are alone, it's not your fault! Those phrases only serve to victim-blame people. A lot of people end up alone after narcissistic abuse. That's not their fault! People should have helped them! We all deserve to be helped!!
My eyes opened very wide when my narc mother told me I should be over my 35 yr old sons death after he was gone after a year. I couldn’t take their cold heartless emotionless stance any longer. My sons death turned into a pity party for my mean hateful golden sister who wasn’t permitted at my sons service due to Covid and restrictions on # of people permitted. It was a private service for close family members only and she hated my son so we said no when she “told” us she was coming. So my parents have blamed me ever since and my sons death and the toll it took on me was just brushed under the rug. I’m done. Put up with this kind of BS all my life. And YES. You will attract more narcissists if you continue through life as a doormat for people to wipe their feet all over you. Dr R. You’re da bomb!! I appreciate you so much.
@@greendodgy Aww. Thank you. Yea. Not backing down. My daughter in law and I handled it all the best we could. Many people would’ve come but we had to choose those that were closest to my son and my sister sure wasn’t in that group.
@dj firstly my deepest Condolences to you with the loss of your son , that must have been an agonising traumatic experience for you to have had to endure ❤
It’s good to be positive, but not when it comes to narcissists because they are never going to change. So instead of being optimistic, you need to be realistic and take away your hope and expectations.
@@60sGirl123 I do believe there is a Satan bc I believe The Bible. I won't look at my son as being Satan but I DO believe he is being influenced by him. The choices he makes are not good for him then he blames others when the "accountability" comes knocking at his door. And other people's healthy boundaries are disgusting and enraging to him. It IS evil. The mindset of "I can do whatever I want but YOU cannot" is evil. Me, me, me...if the world was full of only this type of person they would annihilate each other and destroy the place while doing it.
Forgiveness is very different from restoration. It is good to forgive in your heart for your own sanity, however, restoration is not a necessity. Not allowing them to hurt you any longer is a choice and a healthy one for self-preservation!
I'm with you there. People know what they are doing. I want nothing to do with them. When you forgive them, it's like saying, "You can keep on doing this".
Same. I don't try anymore and anyone who tells me to forgive is on my "Go away" list. Not cause I want them there but because it becomes a problem in any relationship.
Youreright. You dont HAVE TO forgive idd to be able to move on. Some behavior just isnt ok and shouldnt keep getting a free pass. Some things are unforgivable. And they dont deserve your kindness. Thats their problem to keep not yours. You can let go and set a boundary without being forced to forgive toxic people. Users use forgiveness as a chance to do it again and you do deserve better idd. Its ok to say no. Its ok not to forgive no matter what flying religious monkey forces you to endure and believe.
@@distracted5767 You hit the nail on the head. The abusive behavior will only continue as long as it is passed off. I wanted to believe in forgiveness but it enables monsters.
I was in a yoga group and got kicked out because the yoga group didn't believe in "competition". The group then started competing against me to prove themselves right. My point was competition is inherent to our nature and it is better to integrate it then make statements like "Yogis don't believe in competition". I even gave them examples of physiological responses our bodies have to competition whether we are acting in a conscience competitive manner or not. Screw them.
@Andrew Gabor Mate has a video called 'Don't Waste Your Life' (You Tube) that addresses the topic of competition in a way you might find to be interesting. Peace!
@@hollowman1 can you sum it up? I am not going to spend my time on a 2 hour video. In all honesty I find a lot of the messages he conveys are fairly basic. I've heard it many times before in many forms. No insult to him, I found value in his info when I was younger but currently don't. 2 hours is too much of my time for info I have mostly heard.
it's not just about forgiveness but also about belittling your experience and ignoring or mocking your pain. "move on, don't be a child" or "this is just a heartbreak, nothing to talk about," or "being in love is a wonderful feeling, you shouldn't talk bad about it" i heard it from my therapist 20 years ago when i tried to understand what happened to me.
Funny story - first session with a therapist. She told me I “needed a kick in the ass.” I said “you know, I don’t really like that expression, it’s something my aunt that I lived with as a child said to me a lot.” Therapist: “Well, maybe she was right.” After that I didn’t feel anymore like telling her that my aunt beat me several times a week and threatened to have me locked up in a mental hospital. Right now I have a great therapist. There’s no way in hell she would say I “need a kick in the ass”, least of all before hearing my story.
@@i.ehrenfest349 wth?! Who gave that person a Liscence? I'm sorry. That should never happen. I'm glad you can laugh about it, but it isn't really funny that someone would think that's ok to do as a therapist. There's a part of me that would want you to tell them that and why as you walk out the door. But I get not telling them. I had a similar kinda retraumatizing when I was forced into a mental hospital cuz of my ex narc lashing out, and the staff were really mean and hurtful in a way that I know if anyone even close to self harm were treated that way, it would have pushed be over the edge. It's just wrong. So glad you have a good supportive helpful therapist now.
Dr. Ramani, I think this is the most impactful and powerful video that you have ever made. Thank you. Thank you for validating us. I grew up in a religion of toxic positivity. I was told to forgive and forget time and time again. Forgive people in my religion that repeatedly hurt me or my children. About a year ago, I stepped back from my religion after a few things happened at church that broke my shelf. This message has made me feel so empowered, as members of my family still try to gaslight me in an effort to make me return to church. Thank you. ❤
I'm from an area of Utah that is predominantly Mormon/LDS, and I have experienced and/or witnessed so much of this. It's so incredibly frustrating and for the most part even useless in my mind. I've gotten into many arguments regarding how unhelpful and unhealthy toxic positivity can be. I was surprised when Dr. Ramani mentioned being a Humanist. I am as well and haven't come across many who share the same views as myself. Being anything but Mormon/LDS here, and especially not being "at least" Christian, made my life a living hell from such a young age.
@@JustJ-Me I am so sorry that you had to go through that. I did grow up in the LDS church, and that was the religion I was speaking about. The toxic positivity was extremely damaging to my mental health over the years. I am so grateful I never had to live in Utah. I can't stand it there. I hope that you are able to continue the healing process. It is so wonderful to have resources like Dr. Ramani out in the world who can validate my feelings.
Man, these toxic positivity enablers made it hard to even feel happy without doubting whether I’m falling into their toxic positivity mindset. Thank you, Dr. Ramani, for calling them out. They are the people who creates a world that is abuser-justifying and victim-blaming.
You have spoken the truth in your comment. These toxic positivity enablers have twisted the meanig of positivity to the point you can't ever recognized it for its true value and situational purpose, Damn!
Thank you! I grew up with forgive the abuser so you can move on with your life. That is nonsense. Get counselling. Get well mentally. Get a counsellor like Dr. Ramani. Man, I needed you 40 years ago.
This is exactly what I'm talking about when people try to blame me for the way others tend to mistreat me. "You're not extroverted enough," "You don't reach out enough," "You don't love people enough," "You don't smile enough," "You're too negative," "You're judgemental," "You're too stand-offish," the kicker is that the ones I have to deal will readily judge anyone they come in contact with and make up all kinds of things about them. But everything they do is ok. Disgusting people.
my uncle passed away a few weeks ago and I was on a group text with his kids, my mother and my aunt. He was in the process of dying. Anytime I brought up feelings of grief I was told to be quiet, I need to be put in my place, I was taking away from their grief and to stop. My own mother watched as my cousins tore me apart then she talked about me behind my back painting a picture of my character that was false and spreading lies. The day he passed away she screamed at me saying he wasn’t my father (who passed away in 2019) and I wasn't as important as her. I have been battling her and managing her behaviors to have a relationship with her and trying to not wake the beast since I was a child. I have finally decided to go no contact for good. She is toxic and so is the rest of my biological family system. now I am grieving and need to find a therapist.
I can relate. My aunt passed away in March. I'm too afraid to say anything about missing her because of the same reason. I started talking to her during the pandemic but didn't know her at all before then. Still, even though our friendship was short lived, she was the one and only true friend I ever had.
The comment about the narcissist being the only one who is allowed to have negative feelings really resonates with me. My narcissistic parent was very negative yet they incessantly criticized me for being negative. How confusing!
I was in an MLM for several years and this was a common tactic used to keep people from leaving. What’s worse is when people tie religion into their toxic positivity. My mother still uses toxic positivity as a way of gaslighting us into believing that we had a great upbringing despite our dad’s volatile temper and fits of rage. Thank you so much for what you do.
I was able to get away from my toxic parent when I married my husband. I was lucky he was military. He got out and, because my Mom painted this beautiful picture to him, he wanted to move back by my family. It all started over and even got worse. I have kids and she wanted to control them, too. Luckily, my husband was paying attention and moved us across the country to his family. Now I'm restarting the healing process again. Thank you so much for these videos. It's been a tremendous help!
I had a major eureka when Dr. Ramani said “unicorns & rainbows” because I knew someone who used that exact term. The individual did become a flying monkey & we had a major falling-out because she was coerced by a narcissistic personality - we were all friends. Dr. Ramani should talk more about platonic friendships & narcissism because it's more prevalent than we think.
I learned finally that I don’t need permission to feel whatever I feel. I no longer allow other people to change how I feel by their actions thoughts or feelings.whatever I feel , or do will not be altered by another person. It took me 42 years to get here
My grandmother was the most toxically positive person I ever met and she enabled my emotionally abusive vulnerable narc mother. Never called my mother out for exposing me to domestic violence, terrible partner choices.. just enabled my mother every step of the way. I remember telling my grandmother when I was a child that I felt like I had to mother my mother and my grandmother said I should be happy to do it. When confronted with dysfunction my grandmother would say, “I never heard of such a thing.” 🙄
Some people who have naturally good hearts find it hard to believe that other people can have bad intentions and when the illusion is finally revealed to be untrue they are devastated. This is the beginning of the journey of healing. Face the truth. It is very painful but there is a way out of the pain by learning the truth about people who are emotionally sick and ill intentioned. If you have been a victim and a survivor of abuse the truth about toxic people will change the dynamic and give hope for healing when you realize it isn't ALL your fault. It may actually be that none of it is their fault. Get honest with yourself and don't beat yourself up. Learn learn learn. All the real spiritual practices are very helpful but the core beliefs have to be put in perspective first. Spirituality adds more knowledge it isn't a substitute for basic life awareness.
This has been an eye opener, I normally dislike people who are soooo positive that can't engage with someone who is going through a tough time. Thank you for this content.
I know, I lost most of what I thought were my friends, due to the narcissist. They had no idea what I was going through. I'm so glad I found them out. Yes, it hurt like hell! I found how who was my friends. I'm basically alone now.
I hear you. The true meaning of the word 'alone' is all one, so now you can find real friends and not this fake mess you had to endure to keep the relationships going.
I am lucky to have 2 good friends who do understand. It is still very hard because of the oceans of distance. Day to day, loneliness is the default. However, truth is all that matters. We are going to be gone one day. I trust the universe that someone healthy and a good match will eventually pop into my life. This time, I will have my 3 fences and barbed wire up 😅
You made me laugh out loud for real when you mentioned the "positivity police" talking about "trusting the universe". Thank you again. The universe, lol. Thanks for telling it like it really is.
My version of "trust the universe" helped me leave the narcissist and his BS and take back my life along the lines of "Trust that the Universe loves you too much for you to accept such a lack of basic respect from this guy." My spirituality really made a huge difference also while recovering from the abuse, but I was lucky enough to experience it in a very healthy way and good company.
@@pjj.5649 Absolutely! Therapy, journaling, meditation, all it takes to heal and be more authentic. Sometimes it's easier to see the right path, sometimes it takes a little longer to understand what kind of work it takes to get better, but it's always worth the commitment.
People always say that religion is what helped them. I believe that religion is like therapy, it helps direct you to what to do to help yourself. It isn't religion that helped you. It's the work you did that changed you or helped you see the world in a different way that helped you. Picking up a pen and journaling, meditation, exercise, seeing a therapist, etc does the same thing.
@@arenee118 I said "spirituality" and not "religion" because they have very different meanings and while religion is, by definition, a form of collective beliefs and rules, spirituality is more like a personal feeling of faith, not necessarily linked to any official religion (not mine anyway) and, as such, much closer in its meaning to the identity and therefore the choices of the individual. I absolutely agree that it wasn't a matter of "divine" or "magical" help coming to rescue me, but it was in fact the way I felt and my beliefs that made it possible for me to do what I needed in order to heal, such as journaling and going to therapy, all things I did and still do, as I've stated in my previous comment. 😊
The only connection I can think of is that both are based on the perpetrator’s undue emphasis of his/her own thoughts/emotions. In narcissistic abuse, perpetrators usually expresses the attitude that everything centers around them. They may object to that description and even insist that they don’t believe that; but, their actions say otherwise. Virtually everything you do/don’t do gets tied back to the perpetrator as a person. You’re either doing something right b/c you’re smart, capable, etc., or you’re intentionally doing it wrong in order to hurt/anger the perpetrator in some way. You are also likely to be accused of doing it wrong, even if you’re doing it right-again b/c of the perpetrator’s thoughts/emotions. Toxic positivity is generally not perpetrated with the intention to hurt anyone, and most wouldn’t even recognize it as being toxic/hurtful; but, in most cases, the perpetrator is still oblivious to the effect it has on others, and to the value of that effect. Narcissism is a psychological disorder and, with few exceptions, abuse is perpetrated with the tangible intention of causing harm. In contrast, toxic positivity is a behavioral flaw that is essentially an extreme version of selfishness, based in denial, and is generally perpetrated with the intention of maintaining and creating happiness. Most people are selfish, in some way or another. Toxic positivity is a subtle expression of selfishness-so subtle that even the perpetrator may not realize why it’s wrong b/c, after all, s/he is only seeking to encourage/uplift people. This is where denial comes in. Most people struggle/suffer, at some point or another. I believe that most people are also aware that there are people who experience more pain than they are aware of from their own lives. Denial allows people to look at someone who reminds them of themselves and assume that they cannot be justified in their suffering b/c the observer is not suffering. Denial also allows people who have suffered to deny the significance of other people’s suffering b/c it is notably different from their own, or b/c they perceive it as being notably different. From here, there are 2 extremes: One is for them to be semi-consciously abusive-meaning that they are generally aware that their actions are hurtful; but, they rationalize it as being justified. The other is to perpetrate toxic positivity-in which they are completely unaware that their actions are hurtful and it’s difficult for them to identify why they would be. Additionally, That feeling when your partner cheated and you don't have the courage to leave him / her so you just death with the pain and live everyday asking questions about your worth. This pain is different from the cheating one_living and seeing him everywhere anticipating when him or she do it again. The best thing is to hire a private investigator Metaspyhub@gmail. com to help you spy on their cellphone remotely just like he did for me...
Amen. At some point we must choose our own health and sanity over submitting ourselves to ongoing, unchanging abuse. We cannot love a narcissist out of their narcissism. The people around us who don't understand the grief we carry are acting out of their own issues, often wanting to silence us for their own comfort, as Dr. Ramani points out here. It's good to surround ourselves with compassionate, supportive friends who get it, and who accept that growth and healing have elements of pain that are unavoidable to that healing journey.
6 months after filing for divorce after 30 years of marriage I finally let myself speak with husband. Thanks to YOU and Dr. Carter, I was able to spot the gaslighting and stopped it right there. Thank you for the knowledge you in part.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for talking about this. I basically had to let go of all my friends because when the shit hit the fan for me, as in the end of a catastrophic marriage to a psychopathic narcissist after 25 years that left me destitute followed by an attempted murder felony assault at work, which I am still trying to recover from after 2 1/2 years, all I got from my now ex-religious community was that I was complaining and not changing my karma and wasn't appreciative of what happened and didn't transform it and had to donate money. And my friends basically told me I had to "just think positively and manifest". Many were in the religious group. And I got a lot of "why can't you just forgive and let go". They aren't the ones bankrupt and injured and dealing with all the consequences every day.
Wow. Your story is almost exactly the same as mine. After going through all that, my cousin WHO IS A LICENCED THERAPIST told me "you have a negative disposition. In the words of Bob Newhart, just stop it." I'd love to hear your update because I'm still stuck after 6 years.
@@yugenknows740 I remain devastated 8 years after leaving my marriage and 1 1/2 years after letting go of my religious beliefs (I mean, the community left me high and dry after my attempted murder so…) in my case it is too late to fix things realistically. Financially I cannot reconstitute myself at my age, not unless I win the lottery. So the fact that I can’t secure a roof over my head when I’m in my mid 50s, we’ll, not a good harbinger. This is what happens when you’re an idealistic idiot who pledges her life to a psychopath and a cult at the age of 18 and keeps on keeping on because “I made a vow to change my karma and work hard for world peace and take responsibility for my role in all that happens”. Right. Well, I made my bed, albeit unwittingly and with good intentions. So now I will sleep in it until I drop dead. Probably soon, from an inevitable heart attack from the stress of living. So don’t base yourself on me. I am very sorry to hear what your therapist cousin said to you, but not surprised. Therapists are the worst. At least the majority of them. I am one and when I had to return to the same place to work where I was almost murdered due to other people’s blatant security breaches that were caught on camera, I was received by non stop slander and rumors about my sanity and attacks by almost all the other therapists (all except 2 out of a large department) and administrators. None of the therapists wanted to admit that what happened to me could happen to them. In general people don’t like to accept that they can be fooled or that shitty things can just happen even if they work hard. So therapists are like everyone else, if they don’t receive good supervision and don’t have an astute therapist themselves, and don’t take their own growth and continuing education seriously, and if they aren’t humble, they will find a myriad ways to blame the victim… I wish you well!
I like finding out that my intuitions were right - I never liked the forced positivity that some people seemed to demand or exude, but I wasn’t sure I was “allowed” to feel that way. Did it make me a cynic? Then a nice woman I knew got breast cancer. And just about the first thing she said was: “but I’m going to stay positive!” I felt that the world imposed that obligation on her, and I said “you know, it’s ok to grieve, too, and to be mad for a while, and to not be brave and just hate this.” Never felt entirely sure that that was the right approach, but this podcast is starting to make me feel that most or perhaps all of my intuitions, throughout life, were OK. Such as disliking it when people go over the top in their admiration of some celebrity, or get carried away by their knowledge of fine wines, etc. These things always put me off. But I was led to believe I was “wrong”.
My experience growing up in the church taught me to "do all things without grumbling" and "love hopes all things and endures all things". I believe these scriptures IN CONTEXT but they were taught without context and kept me blinded to the narcissistic abuse I was suffering from my parent and later my spouse. Growing up I was expected to be happy, cheerful, helpful, and grateful. If I had a "bad" emotion I was sent to my room until I was "acceptable". Anything negative was considered sinful. So abusive! My grandiose spouse has been upset when they hear me talk about my experience of raising 6 kids while they worked 60-80 hours a week and I said it was very hard. They were angry that I "focused on the negative" instead of telling how many great times we had. I should be more positive and dwell on the good memories. Of course it's all about their discomfort in hearing my very real struggle and feelings of abandonment. I noticed recently the urge to fake a smile during difficult conversations so they won't think I'm upset or angry. Again that conditioning to be cheerful and happy despite how I'm actually feeling. I'm happy to say I'm getting better at catching this and being authentic with my emotions. Thanks for this video, it addressed some very real issues for me.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. I've had to hear "it was not so bad", " mom & sis never treat me like this", "it's just a personality clash", " we only have one mom, try harder", "stop being negative", "turn the other cheek"etc . I cannot say Thank You enough. This has gone on for 50 yrs. I finally went " no contact" last yr.
It's awful you had to deal with that torture. I know you lived through and survived the same kind of nightmare. We are strong. No one else in our dysfunctional families would have had the strength to endure all of the bullying and lies....torture. I wish you were spared from the toxicity of those sick ppl ❤
@@NothingNew4You Thank You ❤ It is so confusing at first because you're just living life and enjoying peace of mind. Then these difficult fam members, who don't know how to smile or laugh, come at us full force with their darkness & misery. It's infuriating that they think they have the right to mistreat us this way. It's a double assault when fam members you thought you could confide in tell you in so many words....." Just suck it up, and move on" They do not understand.
Yes my mother was / still is the only one “allowed “ to have a negative emotion. We barely talk anymore but it’s so true .. all I’m allowed to say is “everything’s great”
This is exactly what I'm talking about. There's always that ONE person who refuses to be there for anyone else because they can't take anymore negativity, but it's ok for THEM to dole it out. These people are very toxic. Deep down, they're just users who drain the eff out of everyone around them. Then they wonder why they're alone.
Thank you! This is so New Age/Prosperity Gospel teaching. And not to mention 'Claim It, Name It Mentality ' This is so rampant now, not even if one is involved with a narcissist. I have been around toxic and narcissist folks and I have to say, its hurtful. We all need to feel heard and yes, positive attitudes are great, but lack of empathy is hurtful! Thanks for touching on this topic!
I live in Santa Cruz county in California, one of the hubs of the hyper spiritual community, and I REALLY APPRECIATE this video. Spiritual bypassing is a very real thing, and it IS a form of gaslighting. It’s not spiritual. It’s actually very dark.
And if you really break down the logic of the whole “universe” perspective is actually very narcissistic fundamentally! We are in a relationship with the universe. So shouldn’t there be reciprocity? Equal exchange? Why is it okay to expect the universe to constantly provide, protect, resolve, and give us what we want and need? How is that not mimicking a narcissistic relationship in which one consistently gives more and the other just takes?
How many times have I listened to other's pleasant childhood memories and been not allowed to share my unpleasant childhood memories. Too many. I worked at the library when the book The Secret by Rhonda Byrne was all the rage. This is victim shunning and victim blaming. Thank you Dr. R.
I've been abused all my life . I tried the smiling thing but doesn't work . My face is smiling but my soul is crying . A lot. I'm by myself today scared of people .
There are good true people out there. Be open to them but guard yourself until you really get to know them. Bad people generally out themselves at some point so listen.
When the ex did the smear campaign (I was still married to him then) I went to get advice from a friend who also was community leader and she advised me to forgive him and move on with positive attitude in our marriage. I didn't know he was narc then. That was the worst piece of advice I ever took as the ex felt my forgiving him was the reason of my guilt of what he was accusing me of and he got nastier. I thank the Almighty for saving me and moving him out of my life. And now everyone tells me to forgive him for ruining the life of our children and my life. He still thinks he has done nothing wrong.
I remember talking with someone about getting out of a narcissistic relationship literally DESPITE the wave of “good vibes”and “hope it gets better” comments that were happening for MONTHS. When I had to deal with ending a friendship like this myself, it was literally agonizing to see someone else endure the same patterns that he was doing what I did and blamed himself for every single mistake or failure that was bombarded onto him. Listen, I’m a spiritual person myself, but when someone is actively seeking to violate personal boundaries on a daily basis and expects you to pick up the pieces and solve everything the other person is doing, cut that person out. Be present with yourself, and learn what you’re missing by staying stuck in this situation.
Love that you are touching on this topic! Toxic positive people are in a deep state of denial from my perspective, and overall… are not actually present with themselves, let alone anybody else. I call them out and if their behavior is not adjusted/corrected, I then firmly tell them to kick rocks.
As psychotherapist of 52 years, love what Dr Ramani says… I regularly listen to her podcasts! She has wealth of real info in narcissists! Thank you so much, Dr Ramani, for your wonderful podcasts!
Thank you. This cuts so close to the bone with me. I was widowed before the alleged pandemic. My family lives 1000 miles away. I'd just restarted my life with a social grief group and joined a small church. The grief group of college educated people all cowered under their beds in irrational fears. The church people were worse. I heard from no one but the lady who collected the money. She sent me emails telling me how to send money without making personal contacts. After a year, my sponsor sent me a card bragging about her happy family bubble and seeing her grandchildren. She knew my bubble consisted of me and my dog, who subsequently died. Her card was cruel. I sent her one back and told her exactly that. I never heard from any of them again until 2 months ago when I got a letter asking for money.
If you expressed any negativity toward being locked down, you would be shamed. Not talking about Covid itself just the act of expressing unhappiness towards the lockdowns. I thought the second I knew this was going to last more than 2 weeks, about the people in abusive hostile homes especially kids whose only refuge was school.
I’m so absolutely sorry and grieved WITH you. I know the feeling of what you’re going through. That’s absolutely awful. Good on you for sending her back a ‘note’. I do hope you can still find private solus in reading the Bible and music. I too had to step completely away from churches but kept that practice and it has sustained me in the loneliness. I hope we both find better areas of support
The only thing I’ve ever learned to trust in this crazy journey of life is myself and my own feelings. Whether it’s toxic negativity or toxic positivity if it feels sticky or manipulative I’ve learned to walk the hell away. That’s one positive thing I did manage to take away from my former narcissists with the support of wonderful people like Dr. Ramani. I spent too much of my precious time with several of these miserable jerks but until you understand what you’re dealing with it’s really hard to protect yourself. As always thank you Dr. Ramani for all you do.
I am married to a narcissist. A few years ago, he told me I was not a positive person. I just about fell over. That statement came from one of the most negative people I know. That statement did take me aback , but I knew and now know, I am not a negative person. While going through menopause, I was about 5 yrs into the process, and he said, "When is this menopause thing going to be over?" I had a horrible time with menopause and that statement made me feel so abandoned. I lost a lot of respect for him. We had only been married 5 yrs and I had just had a baby 2yrs earlier at 42 yrs of age. What a scum bag!
Oh I was there. But I guarantee that if you left, he’d beg. When I shut down and wanted nothing more, suddenly he started offering me money and new appliances for our home, things I had needed repaired. I didn’t care anymore. I walked away.
I met so many people that were toxic positivity because i was trying to heal from PTSD. My feelings were never validated and always have been gaslighted! I left that group of friends because they made me feel worse! I also have family members that are toxic positivity and make me feel the same way! I feel like they are everywhere! Dr. Ramani, I want to thank you for making this video!
My first run in with toxic positivity was when I went to a Christian counselor, recommended by a friend, for my PTSD that resulted from my father molesting and raping me. She told me to look around the room and find Jesus. "Jesus is always there", she said. How disgusting. Jesus allowed my dad to do what he did and was a voyeur, just watching what was being done. Was I supposed to be happy that Jesus was there with me while I was being abused? Just disgusting. Turned me off to organized religion.
Thank you for this video. This clarifies so much for me! I'm a generally positive person who finally left a toxic narcissistic relationship so I was very interested in what you had to say. It sounds to me that positivity in itself isn't necessarily bad but when a person USES the positivity position to ALLOW them to continue to terrorize people it's just another gaslighting tool that the toxic positive person uses to misdirect the blame back to the victim and ALSO guarantees that the victim will stick around for more. Thank you for your expertise on such a complicated subject. I appreciate you very much!
Thank you for telling it like it is! I was able to recognize that giving second chances to a narcissist would not change their behavior. Going no contact was the best thing I did. The narcissist moved on to create problems for others.
I once went to a hypnotist, I was so trauma bonded to an on-off-on boyfriend and needed a way out of my internal hell. Had no idea what trauma bonding was, or that the boyfriend was displaying heavy narcissistic behaviors. The hypnotist's grand idea was to help draw out whatever love and compassion he could draw out of me for the guy. Big fail. Meanwhile, an old school pal married the hypnotist and became all flowy and dreamy, the opposite of her usual wry, sensible self. Then she had a bout of depression that she never recovered from. He divorced her because she had gotten so "out there". Not long after, she comitted suicide, and her former husband told people that for her sake, it was really a blessing. While listening to this video, my mind kept traveling back to my friend. I think I may have a better understanding of her circumstances. I used to have a lot of toxicly positive friends and often felt inadequate around them. The past 20 years, I've been far less spiritual, and have lamented the absence of all the esoteric, new age stuff I used to do. A few years ago, I began tuning out when someone droned on about forgiveness, and felt like an oddball in some circles. This video just let me off the hook. Thank you thank you thank you Dr. Ramani. Most valuable video yet.
Yes. I live in Utah and mormons definitely have that toxic positivity problem. Its horrible. People who are not religious who are new here, at first get confused when they arrive because all they see and meet is “nice” and “positive” smiley people, not some toxic culture everyone warned them about. But once they get to deal with real problems or abuse, and mormons are around, they finally get to see that its all toxic positivity, pretenses, and indifference. Judgement or agenda behind a smile. Its so evil. There are sooo many unhappy marriages here, and so many women abused. And the church is even more evil, because they have tons of money and resources, but they always cover up cases of abuse, instead of assisting police with investigations, helping put perpetrators behind bars.
I had an employer once who was like this. I mentioned to him one day that I had a cold - sniffles, headache. This man said to me "we don't get sick here." I was stunned!
You are a great woman and a great professionist. Only one thing: most of this "positive thinking " are not real empathic but dark empath/ minor narcissists/ covert narc. I just saw and listened to some
Dr Ramani has been my guardian angel for a number of years...read listen learn and believe in your instincts when dealing with people...our gut usually speaks to us but unfortunately we don't listen enough to it.....
Thank you so much. For the past years I have felt so lonely due to toxic positivity. I have relatives who pushed me away because they used it during the pandemic, as you mentioned, when I was going through some terrible events and lots of grief and they chided me for not being positive and enjoying life, and just the other day I was talking on the phone and one and told them something negative and they said "Oh, I didn't want to hear anything bad, I wanted good news." Seriously?! Also, recently I see how it has affected friends and others around me. I currently have DVTs in my leg. DVTs can be fatal. When I tell people this they completely blow me off. I could drop dead if these things travel, people! But they say, "Oh, you'll be fine" or "Think positively," etc. They just cannot deal with anything negative. It makes me feel so isolated, so invisible, so uncared for. It also reminds me of the religiosity I grew up with. I need to greyrock some of these people but one or two I might be able to say that I feel disrepected and disregarded when they refuse to bear witness to my truth.
I can relate. I have also noticed they do talk about negativity though in the form of judging and gossiping about other people. Or they spend their time and energy on whatever is on their phone or TV, which is often negative. So many people have their priorities mixed up.
❤ thank you for this great clarity, I finally have an answer. I do see how they think positive dismissals of your pains and frustrations, righteously, can help you move on but it is temporary. It cycles back to you in life when you dont fully process those issues. Especially when you are gaslit into believing you are the cause of all those pains therefore you must suffer alone. That was always a hurt I could not get over. The disloyalty and looking down upon you after you experience a trauma, how the blame is put on you, the 'come back after you realize its always your fault, you are the problem'. Leaves you feeling very alone, confused, and different.
Thank you for talking about this! My husband grew up with an extremely negative narcissist father and a negative enabling mother who benefitted from the abuse of her sons. He didn't get much of a childhood, he was working like a dog from a very early age. As a consequence, to cope with this I think he has a tendency to naively grab on to the latest self-help fad and be toxically positive at times. Don't get me wrong, I love his positivity as it is a great foil to my pessimism. I am also amazed that he turned out as loving and positive as he is considering what he went through, (his brother did not fare as well). But I have to call him out when he tries to deny me my feelings by giving me his "You have to be more positive" platitudes. I also have to call him out about how he REALLY feels and remind him that it is OK for him to be depressed and not feel good, and that he can come to me with those feelings, that he doesn't have to hide them from me.
Hi Dr. Ramani I love your video they have helped me cope with narcissist abuse from my parents. If it wasn't for you I would be clueless about narcissism. Love ad respect thank you for helping our community. Watch the as y'all so she can get paid. 😊🌷🌸💝
You've just described my older sister. I can't with her. I'm a realist and the scapegoat and in no contact with our "mother" who is getting more awful with age. She's a champion enabler and feeding that hurtful and awful crap. Her positively is toxic.
The only people that tell me to be positive are the one people that give me no reasons for being so. It's like a threat. I "have to" be positive and "have hope" because if I don't, they are gonna harm me.
Whew, whew, whewwwwwwww It me almost 4 years to really get comfortable with healing years of mental health problems, Narcissistic abuse being at the top. I got a lot of grief that I wasn’t miraculously better after 6 months…. The more I started seeing results, the I was motivated to take my time and discover more. I MADE the space I needed
Thank you so much for this! It's super validating and helpful to undo the gaslighting and added wounding that I continue to get from positivity police. I'm so tired of it. Thank you so much for not just saying this, but genuinely caring, and for reminding us that our negative response, or lack of sweeping it under the rug, is actually a good thing and a healthy response to very unhealthy behaviors.
Dang, Dr. Ramani. You have done it again. My vulnerable narc mother did this anytime I expressed anything that made me upset. She would say it hurt her heart and made her sad/feel bad and that she just couldn't hear about it - b/c it was too much. We are predictably estranged, though I am trying to figure out how to reconcile so that she can have more support as she nears the end of her life and is dealing with blindness. It's really sad the devastation that is wrought by NA. Not just on the people being abused, but the abusers themselves as well as the ripple effect to countless others. Because, I want to be there for her as much as I can - but I will never allow myself to be abused again. It's a balancing act I wouldn't wish on anyone. Peace and love to all of you brave fellow humans. Keep healing and keep your inner lights safe and warm. 💚🌻 ☮ Edit/PS: love your quip about "everyone has a light inside". I feel your sentiment. Because while some lights sparkle, some are dim, while others are blowtorches that scorch the earth. Good grief, lol!
I'm crying as I watch this, because you're basically explaining the past month of my life. I was dating a recovering addict for 6 months, and everything seemed fine, until it wasn't. I have no idea how much was narcissism, how much was past addiction, but that isn't my job to figure out. He's still trying to gaslight me and the only solace I get is watching these videos so I know I'm not alone and not losing my mind.
Your description about the narcissists "potential..." And everything is so accurate, Dr. Ramani. Thank you for this incredibly supportive and validating video of the survivors' experiences. Thank you!❤❤❤
Fantastic speech! Dr. Ramani, I wish I would have been taught these things in childhood and had left my childish thinking behind. I am so susceptible to those universe stories, Sadguru stuff etc. And it keeps me in a state of hope and false bliss to cover up my depression, grief, sadness.
Dr. Ramani thank you so much for your work. It's been so pivotal for me across two unhealthy relationships that I found myself in and has not only helped me to reflect on what was unhealthy in the other, but in myself as well. Plenty of good topics to bring up with my personal therapist as I learn to navigate romantic relationships and preparing myself for the right one in the future. I wish things weren't this difficult, but it is, end of story. I've really learned so much and continue to find new things I need to learn to better myself and my understanding of what really makes a healthy and balanced relationship. Thank you for putting all of this out for free. Amazing stuff!
So so true, these are people who have never experienced toxic abuse in reality but believe they know all. For them everything is simple as they are always giving suggestions from outside never knowing but believe they have seen that and more.
I wish I had the information in this video 30 years ago. It would’ve made many things in my life so much better to have this information. I would have avoided numerous personal and professional, narcissistic relationships, and would not have wasted so much time trying to gain the love for my narcissistic family members. Thank you so much Dr. Ramani. I agree with the comments below. I think this is the most important and powerful video you have ever made. Thank you so much for being the voice of sanity and an insane world with all the chronic “toxic positivity.“
I was just thinking about the toxic positivity in the spiritual community earlier today and then boom you post this video, thank you Dr Ramani for the upload. 💜✨
Thank you so much for this topic! I needed this not necessarily because of hardcore narcissists but because a lot of my friends and acquaintances are of the (sometimes annoying) opinion "what you direct your energy to will gain more power" and thus stop your sometimes being disheartened, complaining or discussing problems or loss in the bud - while it might seem good to them, I find it harmful. It seems inauthentic (and often uncaring) to me. I think sometimes one has to go through these phases and feelings to arrive at a solution. They just want to view the world through their rose-coloured glasses, paint it as they want it and hardcore ignore certain things as long as they can. The second they can't anymore because it concerns them, the 'rules' are all different, of course. You expressed it much better than I did. Shaming, self-righteousness and stonewalling, exactly. I also found that by ignoring what they don't want to see or deal with they are really good at delegating and imposing the unwanted stuff and 'dirty-work' on friends and family, until those people learn to defend themselves. Urgh!
You are such a blessing Dr. Thank you so much for this video. I have struggled so much with friends and family who use toxic positivity to invalidate my chronic pain. Your words are truly describing what I’ve been wanting to communicate for so long. Thank you for making it so clear and so real for me. I watch you from the Netherlands very often! All the best to you ♥️
Omg I've experienced this, I thought I was the only one whos dealt with this. I am so happy you are exposing all of their crap to the whole world Dr. Ramani Thank you!!
this is right on time. the other day i went to my boyfriend about sadness and depression over the way he’s been treating me, he said that “being sad for no reason is stupid”, and that i need to learn how to “turn lemons into lemonade”. he doesn’t hear me at all when i say how invalidating it is. he just says i should go find someone else to vent to, and he doesn’t need that kind of drama in his life. it hurts. thank you for sharing your expertise. it really helps.
Thank you Dr. Ramani ❤Toxic positivity is an extremely powerful tool for narcissists to hook and bait you. It's just an illusion, a fantasy that hoovers you.
Thank you for this Video Dr. Ramani and calling out on that bullshit. I had my fair share on that toxic positivity from my friends and even therapists. Aside frome the typically "Oh come on, you're exaggerating" and "you might got that persons intentions wrong" stuff there where two other recurring practices that really messed me up. One was trying to shine a positive light on things that happened to me, while I was still struggling and suffering and the abuse didn't end yet. I heard things like "oh come on, you needed this" and "it will only make you stronger, so much stronger!". Well, I think nobody needs the bad treatment of a illminded person and it didn't make me stronger until I got away from all that shit and finally got the help I needed. In fact it made me just more physically and mentally ill. Also I never thought of myself as weak, just didn't learn proper boundary setting and other important life skills in my childhood. In that moment all I needed was a friend who would listen and try to understand and some compassion. The other thing was the suggestion that if I think such mean and evil stuff, mean and evil stuff would happen to me. And don't get me wrong, I got very bitter in that time and my bitterness started hurting me. But it made me feel like all the bad treatment happened to me because I wasn't positive enough. If I saw bad stuff coming on the way, it suddenly came true because I thought of it. Suddenly all the bad stuff in my life happened because I couldn't have happier thoughts. I've been an very cheerful person my whole life. I always were that get-back-on-your-feet person and this treatment felt like my own medicine being thrown into my face as poison by people who'd rather live in a magical world and keep that image up, instead of seeing and recognizing my suffering (and maybe their own). What really helped were finally therapists listening, understanding my situation and helping me navigating out of that mess, that became my life. Still on my way with that, but I'm happy I'm not alone with my thoughts on the toxicity of forcing positivity on people for the sake of an "one happy world" illusion.
@@beaulieuc8910 yeah, I 'loved' that one and got that a lot, like A LOT. Sometimes that got topped by "you're only projecting your own bad intentions on that person". Works wonders if you wanna destroy a persons trust in their own perception and intuition and can never be proven wrong.
My ex-nar and I went to Christian counseling and I was told to love him out of his horrible abuse of me. If I had followed her advice I would be dead right now.. I had been doing this since the age of fifteen and then at 35- he was still no different. Thank you so much for your insight. I have a sister who tells me she doesn’t have to listen to my drama about narcissists abuse- I am excluding her from my life- let her live in her little world of rainbows and blue skies
Thankyou Dr Ramani, you have taught me sooo much. I packed up and safely left my charming, gaslighting, Dr J and Mr Hyde Narcissistic relationship. Thankyou 🌻
I am a professional psychic and what the "universe" has taught me is that EACH PERSON IS RESPONSIBLE FOR LEARNING TO BE REAL ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES. We are confronted with difficult situations and people in order to make us grow emotionally and protect ourselves from what destroys our intuition and inner truth. Learn psychology first and your spirituality will make sense and make you stronger. Be aware. Be knowledgeable. We live in THIS reality and it is our responsibility to grow by facing our experiences truthfully.
I'm a psychic too and I totally agree the individual has to take responsibility for themselves. However as a child or an adult traumatised by a narc parent this is a difficult bind which needs therapy
This is a great video. In my experience, most people simply don't want to hear anything "negative" (I live in the U.S. Maybe it's different other places.) I worked as an occupational therapist for 20 years. A few years ago, I was working at a pediatric burn hospital and it was really intense. One day, I had an appointment to get my haircut right after work. I usually didn't schedule appointments where I had to interact with people right after work because I needed time to decompress but this was the only appointment available. I had been going to this stylist for 3 years and never discussed what I did, never said anything "negative", etc. When I sat down in his chair, he asked me how my day was going. I had just finished an extremely difficult session with a pediatric burn patient and I was honest. Just told him the basics in 1-2 minutes. No gory details. His response was something like, "Oh that's really a downer and depressing. You just threw off my vibe." I never said anything about my work again (not that I had before). My experience has been most people want to hear uplifting platitudes. I don't want to be Debbie Downer all the time, but my experience has been that it's the rare person who can hold space for you in the U.S. Most people are in their own bubble and they like that way.
This came out at the perfect time. Thanks, it means alot to hear this perspective from a licensed professional. I was beginning to think that the entire world had gone crazy.
Wow! You are such an eye opener. I love you to pieces. My lifetime dream: to sit down with you and talk....and talk. Maybe write the book of my life... surrounded by All You describe since birth. Thanks for what you do!!!.....life saving techniques. ❤
I have followed Dr.Ramani's channel for almost 3 years now. While I do identify as a healer, omnist, genuinely positive person and also hate labels (lol), I think the KEY to toxic positivity is control. Narcissists use tools to gain power; positivity CAN be another tool. Being authentic means accepting our humanity, failures, short comings, etc. and accepting people right where they are at. Healing means knowing what we can control and what we cannot. There is no shame in being positive but rather taking ownership if our positivity/behavior is injuring others. It all comes back to autonomy and radical acceptance. Love this discussion.❤
Ok, once again you discuss many of the same personality traits my sister exhibits. Sadly, her social worker husband is a hide your head in the sand enabler. The longer I can go no contact the better I feel. This video was spot on with her behavior.
I have found that unless someone has been through similar or parallel life experiences, whether they are Christian, non-Christian, ect., they do not understand the whole picture as you see it. Toxic positivity is REAL. Forgiveness is for my benefit. My peace. If the unwelcome behavior doesn't change, I keep my distance. Another person's choices are NOT my responsibility. I am responsible for my choices, my behavior and no one else's. I am feeling alone, but I am also feeling safer and free-er. God is with me. I trust Him.
The flying monkey in my experience stayed 80% of the time, night and day, to be a support to the narcissist in my house. She even told me twice it would be best if I left my house, move out! Greater than 1 year later I am free, but she is still there enabling.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 84 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องศึก vs เมืองไทย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3kuzsAIDf1c/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't know how many times I have been told that I am toxic in Spirituality groups because I always call them out for their toxic positivity and misleading vulnerable people.
This
Boy. Yes. I could add in way too much. Pheeew. Thank you!
Thinking about that phrase that usually makes me cringe, "Trust the Universe."
I wouldn't use that phrase.
But, had a special moment, looking at it as an active, spiritual, universal energy.... that THAT "Universe" is to be trusted.
The small voice that we chatter over. The signs. The guidance waiting to be asked.
That saved my life.
It's not what the "one up" folk mean.
I thank my still, quiet, universal voice that finally got its say. It told me things like, "You can't do your best work when you have to hide. "
church doing this was main reason why I stayed for years
It is such a turn off!
Landmark Forum was full of these people who refuse to see that there is genuine injustice and suffering in the world. Landmark is all about 'we create our own reality' therefore we and only we are responsible for everything that has happened to us. And there were survivors of child abuse in my group hearing that they created their abuse (letting their abuser off the hook). I left in disgust.
Like Dr Ramani I too am not enabling this toxic and puerile nonsense.
New Age groups can be even worse! Often people join them in the hope of finding comfort, help and compassion only to be told that everything is their fault because they created 'asked for' it.
Fragile and vulnerable people are not safe in these groups.
Landmark freaks out if you so much as mention the S (suicide - thoughts of) word - it is a great way to get a full refund and watch them run a mile.
it also disarms people who need to learn good boundaries.
Run, run away fast from anyone who invalidates your reality due to their defensive need to eliminate all negativity from their lives.
My ex-friend's spouse literally ran away from home. He realized all her belongings and she disappeared when he came back home from work. He looks so nice and kind. I'm scared of imagining what he did.
@@yukio_saitoThey all look so nice.. until they reveal their ugly colors. I just exed out yet another one. Ugh. So many toxic positives.
I have never been told to "be positive" by people who genuinely helped me, only by those who did not
"Invalidates your reality" meaning tell you to not wallow too long? Yes you should stay a victim sounds like a great plan for your life.
I believe that often it's just virtue signaling on their part. Virtue signalers sicken me.
It reminds me of another one I heard the other day: "You can't be loved until you love yourself." These platitudes tell people their misfortune isn't real, but if it is, they brought it on themselves with their mindset.
Yes! If you are alone, it's not your fault! Those phrases only serve to victim-blame people.
A lot of people end up alone after narcissistic abuse. That's not their fault! People should have helped them! We all deserve to be helped!!
My eyes opened very wide when my narc mother told me I should be over my 35 yr old sons death after he was gone after a year. I couldn’t take their cold heartless emotionless stance any longer. My sons death turned into a pity party for my mean hateful golden sister who wasn’t permitted at my sons service due to Covid and restrictions on # of people permitted. It was a private service for close family members only and she hated my son so we said no when she “told” us she was coming. So my parents have blamed me ever since and my sons death and the toll it took on me was just brushed under the rug. I’m done. Put up with this kind of BS all my life. And YES. You will attract more narcissists if you continue through life as a doormat for people to wipe their feet all over you. Dr R. You’re da bomb!! I appreciate you so much.
I'm so sorry for your loss. How horrible. Good job standing your ground regarding your sister.
@@greendodgy Aww. Thank you. Yea. Not backing down. My daughter in law and I handled it all the best we could. Many people would’ve come but we had to choose those that were closest to my son and my sister sure wasn’t in that group.
@ dj
I totally agree with every word you stated !
@dj firstly
my deepest Condolences to you with the loss of your son , that must have been an agonising traumatic experience for you to have had to endure ❤
I can imagine what you went through. Thank you for sharing.
It’s good to be positive, but not when it comes to narcissists because they are never going to change. So instead of being optimistic, you need to be realistic and take away your hope and expectations.
Just think of them as Satan. Even if you don’t believe in Satan, the comparison fits. There’s nothing they won’t do if they can get away with it
@@60sGirl123 I do believe there is a Satan bc I believe The Bible. I won't look at my son as being Satan but I DO believe he is being influenced by him. The choices he makes are not good for him then he blames others when the "accountability" comes knocking at his door. And other people's healthy boundaries are disgusting and enraging to him. It IS evil. The mindset of "I can do whatever I want but YOU cannot" is evil. Me, me, me...if the world was full of only this type of person they would annihilate each other and destroy the place while doing it.
@@60sGirl123You made my day 😅
Sadly, yes. People are just people.
This is why I can't forgive people anymore. I just can't do it. I kept forgiving over and over again but it always left me in even worse predicaments.
Forgiveness is very different from restoration. It is good to forgive in your heart for your own sanity, however, restoration is not a necessity. Not allowing them to hurt you any longer is a choice and a healthy one for self-preservation!
I'm with you there. People know what they are doing. I want nothing to do with them. When you forgive them, it's like saying, "You can keep on doing this".
Same. I don't try anymore and anyone who tells me to forgive is on my "Go away" list. Not cause I want them there but because it becomes a problem in any relationship.
Youreright.
You dont HAVE TO forgive idd to be able to move on.
Some behavior just isnt ok and shouldnt keep getting a free pass. Some things are unforgivable. And they dont deserve your kindness.
Thats their problem to keep not yours. You can let go and set a boundary without being forced to forgive toxic people.
Users use forgiveness as a chance to do it again and you do deserve better idd.
Its ok to say no. Its ok not to forgive no matter what flying religious monkey forces you to endure and believe.
@@distracted5767 You hit the nail on the head. The abusive behavior will only continue as long as it is passed off. I wanted to believe in forgiveness but it enables monsters.
"You cannot 'Downward Dog' away narcissistic abuse." ( @15:26 ) really made me chuckle. this is a top notch message. Thank you Dr. Ramani.
Ha! I’m a yoga instructor and this is so true so why try?let the dog show their teeth.
I was in a yoga group and got kicked out because the yoga group didn't believe in "competition". The group then started competing against me to prove themselves right. My point was competition is inherent to our nature and it is better to integrate it then make statements like "Yogis don't believe in competition". I even gave them examples of physiological responses our bodies have to competition whether we are acting in a conscience competitive manner or not. Screw them.
@Andrew Gabor Mate has a video called 'Don't Waste Your Life' (You Tube) that addresses the topic of competition in a way you might find to be interesting. Peace!
@@hollowman1 can you sum it up? I am not going to spend my time on a 2 hour video. In all honesty I find a lot of the messages he conveys are fairly basic. I've heard it many times before in many forms. No insult to him, I found value in his info when I was younger but currently don't. 2 hours is too much of my time for info I have mostly heard.
Hear hear 😂
it's not just about forgiveness but also about belittling your experience and ignoring or mocking your pain. "move on, don't be a child" or "this is just a heartbreak, nothing to talk about," or "being in love is a wonderful feeling, you shouldn't talk bad about it" i heard it from my therapist 20 years ago when i tried to understand what happened to me.
agreed and 'get over it'
It's the worst when it comes from folks you go to get help from. It's definitely retraumatizing then. I'm so sorry
Absolutely!!! People telling you how your should feel, because they want to live a Disney World life.
Funny story - first session with a therapist. She told me I “needed a kick in the ass.” I said “you know, I don’t really like that expression, it’s something my aunt that I lived with as a child said to me a lot.”
Therapist: “Well, maybe she was right.”
After that I didn’t feel anymore like telling her that my aunt beat me several times a week and threatened to have me locked up in a mental hospital.
Right now I have a great therapist. There’s no way in hell she would say I “need a kick in the ass”, least of all before hearing my story.
@@i.ehrenfest349 wth?! Who gave that person a Liscence? I'm sorry. That should never happen. I'm glad you can laugh about it, but it isn't really funny that someone would think that's ok to do as a therapist. There's a part of me that would want you to tell them that and why as you walk out the door. But I get not telling them. I had a similar kinda retraumatizing when I was forced into a mental hospital cuz of my ex narc lashing out, and the staff were really mean and hurtful in a way that I know if anyone even close to self harm were treated that way, it would have pushed be over the edge. It's just wrong. So glad you have a good supportive helpful therapist now.
Dr. Ramani, I think this is the most impactful and powerful video that you have ever made. Thank you. Thank you for validating us. I grew up in a religion of toxic positivity.
I was told to forgive and forget time and time again. Forgive people in my religion that repeatedly hurt me or my children. About a year ago, I stepped back from my religion after a few things happened at church that broke my shelf.
This message has made me feel so empowered, as members of my family still try to gaslight me in an effort to make me return to church. Thank you. ❤
Totally agree!
I'm from an area of Utah that is predominantly Mormon/LDS, and I have experienced and/or witnessed so much of this. It's so incredibly frustrating and for the most part even useless in my mind. I've gotten into many arguments regarding how unhelpful and unhealthy toxic positivity can be. I was surprised when Dr. Ramani mentioned being a Humanist. I am as well and haven't come across many who share the same views as myself. Being anything but Mormon/LDS here, and especially not being "at least" Christian, made my life a living hell from such a young age.
@@JustJ-Me I am so sorry that you had to go through that. I did grow up in the LDS church, and that was the religion I was speaking about. The toxic positivity was extremely damaging to my mental health over the years. I am so grateful I never had to live in Utah. I can't stand it there.
I hope that you are able to continue the healing process. It is so wonderful to have resources like Dr. Ramani out in the world who can validate my feelings.
For what it's worth, as I read your contribution above I immediately felt that you must be Mormon. I have witnesses this.
Exactly, religion enables narc behaviour. I stepped out too much better for it.
Man, these toxic positivity enablers made it hard to even feel happy without doubting whether I’m falling into their toxic positivity mindset. Thank you, Dr. Ramani, for calling them out. They are the people who creates a world that is abuser-justifying and victim-blaming.
You have spoken the truth in your comment. These toxic positivity enablers have twisted the meanig of positivity to the point you can't ever recognized it for its true value and situational purpose, Damn!
@@pjj.5649 Yes!! 💯
Thank you!
I grew up with forgive the abuser so you can move on with your life. That is nonsense.
Get counselling. Get well mentally. Get a counsellor like Dr. Ramani. Man, I needed you 40 years ago.
This is exactly what I'm talking about when people try to blame me for the way others tend to mistreat me. "You're not extroverted enough," "You don't reach out enough," "You don't love people enough," "You don't smile enough," "You're too negative," "You're judgemental," "You're too stand-offish," the kicker is that the ones I have to deal will readily judge anyone they come in contact with and make up all kinds of things about them. But everything they do is ok. Disgusting people.
my uncle passed away a few weeks ago and I was on a group text with his kids, my mother and my aunt. He was in the process
of dying. Anytime I brought up feelings of grief I was told to be quiet, I need to be put
in my place, I was taking away from their grief and to stop. My own mother watched as my cousins tore me apart then she talked about me behind my back painting a picture of my character that was false and spreading lies. The day he passed away she screamed at me saying he wasn’t my father (who passed away in 2019) and I wasn't as important as her. I have been battling her and managing her behaviors to have a relationship with her and trying to not wake the beast since I was a child. I have finally decided to go no contact for good. She is toxic and so is the rest of my biological family system. now I am grieving and need to find a therapist.
I can relate. My aunt passed away in March. I'm too afraid to say anything about missing her because of the same reason. I started talking to her during the pandemic but didn't know her at all before then. Still, even though our friendship was short lived, she was the one and only true friend I ever had.
The comment about the narcissist being the only one who is allowed to have negative feelings really resonates with me. My narcissistic parent was very negative yet they incessantly criticized me for being negative. How confusing!
Same! It's so hypocritical! 🫂😭
I was in an MLM for several years and this was a common tactic used to keep people from leaving. What’s worse is when people tie religion into their toxic positivity. My mother still uses toxic positivity as a way of gaslighting us into believing that we had a great upbringing despite our dad’s volatile temper and fits of rage. Thank you so much for what you do.
I was able to get away from my toxic parent when I married my husband. I was lucky he was military. He got out and, because my Mom painted this beautiful picture to him, he wanted to move back by my family. It all started over and even got worse. I have kids and she wanted to control them, too. Luckily, my husband was paying attention and moved us across the country to his family. Now I'm restarting the healing process again.
Thank you so much for these videos. It's been a tremendous help!
I'm so happy for you! I wish you all the best in your healing journey!!!💛💛💛
I wish I had a loving military husband to wisk me far away from my abusive narcissistic family and just make my in-laws my new mom and dad too😔
I'm glad your husband saw what was going on and supported you.
I had a major eureka when Dr. Ramani said “unicorns & rainbows” because I knew someone who used that exact term. The individual did become a flying monkey & we had a major falling-out because she was coerced by a narcissistic personality - we were all friends. Dr. Ramani should talk more about platonic friendships & narcissism because it's more prevalent than we think.
I learned finally that I don’t need permission to feel whatever I feel. I no longer allow other people to change how I feel by their actions thoughts or feelings.whatever I feel , or do will not be altered by another person. It took me 42 years to get here
My grandmother was the most toxically positive person I ever met and she enabled my emotionally abusive vulnerable narc mother. Never called my mother out for exposing me to domestic violence, terrible partner choices.. just enabled my mother every step of the way. I remember telling my grandmother when I was a child that I felt like I had to mother my mother and my grandmother said I should be happy to do it. When confronted with dysfunction my grandmother would say, “I never heard of such a thing.” 🙄
That sounds terribly frustrating and yet you survived it. power to you
Your grandmother was probably a narcissist and you just did not realize it
I'm so sorry.
Some people who have naturally good hearts find it hard to believe that other people can have bad intentions and when the illusion is finally revealed to be untrue they are devastated. This is the beginning of the journey of healing. Face the truth. It is very painful but there is a way out of the pain by learning the truth about people who are emotionally sick and ill intentioned. If you have been a victim and a survivor of abuse the truth about toxic people will change the dynamic and give hope for healing when you realize it isn't ALL your fault. It may actually be that none of it is their fault. Get honest with yourself and don't beat yourself up. Learn learn learn. All the real spiritual practices are very helpful but the core beliefs have to be put in perspective first. Spirituality adds more knowledge it isn't a substitute for basic life awareness.
This has been an eye opener, I normally dislike people who are soooo positive that can't engage with someone who is going through a tough time. Thank you for this content.
I know, I lost most of what I thought were my friends, due to the narcissist. They had no idea what I was going through. I'm so glad I found them out. Yes, it hurt like hell! I found how who was my friends. I'm basically alone now.
I hear you. The true meaning of the word 'alone' is all one, so now you can find real friends and not this fake mess you had to endure to keep the relationships going.
I am lucky to have 2 good friends who do understand. It is still very hard because of the oceans of distance. Day to day, loneliness is the default. However, truth is all that matters. We are going to be gone one day. I trust the universe that someone healthy and a good match will eventually pop into my life. This time, I will have my 3 fences and barbed wire up 😅
No one cares..
You made me laugh out loud for real when you mentioned the "positivity police" talking about "trusting the universe". Thank you again. The universe, lol. Thanks for telling it like it really is.
Trust the universe my ass, kids get raped in this universe ʕಠ_ಠʔ
My version of "trust the universe" helped me leave the narcissist and his BS and take back my life along the lines of "Trust that the Universe loves you too much for you to accept such a lack of basic respect from this guy." My spirituality really made a huge difference also while recovering from the abuse, but I was lucky enough to experience it in a very healthy way and good company.
And also, you were willing to do the work, and not 'wish' it away.
@@pjj.5649 Absolutely! Therapy, journaling, meditation, all it takes to heal and be more authentic. Sometimes it's easier to see the right path, sometimes it takes a little longer to understand what kind of work it takes to get better, but it's always worth the commitment.
People always say that religion is what helped them. I believe that religion is like therapy, it helps direct you to what to do to help yourself. It isn't religion that helped you. It's the work you did that changed you or helped you see the world in a different way that helped you. Picking up a pen and journaling, meditation, exercise, seeing a therapist, etc does the same thing.
@@arenee118 I said "spirituality" and not "religion" because they have very different meanings and while religion is, by definition, a form of collective beliefs and rules, spirituality is more like a personal feeling of faith, not necessarily linked to any official religion (not mine anyway) and, as such, much closer in its meaning to the identity and therefore the choices of the individual. I absolutely agree that it wasn't a matter of "divine" or "magical" help coming to rescue me, but it was in fact the way I felt and my beliefs that made it possible for me to do what I needed in order to heal, such as journaling and going to therapy, all things I did and still do, as I've stated in my previous comment. 😊
The only connection I can think of is that both are based on the perpetrator’s undue emphasis of his/her own thoughts/emotions. In narcissistic abuse, perpetrators usually expresses the attitude that everything centers around them. They may object to that description and even insist that they don’t believe that; but, their actions say otherwise. Virtually everything you do/don’t do gets tied back to the perpetrator as a person. You’re either doing something right b/c you’re smart, capable, etc., or you’re intentionally doing it wrong in order to hurt/anger the perpetrator in some way. You are also likely to be accused of doing it wrong, even if you’re doing it right-again b/c of the perpetrator’s thoughts/emotions. Toxic positivity is generally not perpetrated with the intention to hurt anyone, and most wouldn’t even recognize it as being toxic/hurtful; but, in most cases, the perpetrator is still oblivious to the effect it has on others, and to the value of that effect. Narcissism is a psychological disorder and, with few exceptions, abuse is perpetrated with the tangible intention of causing harm. In contrast, toxic positivity is a behavioral flaw that is essentially an extreme version of selfishness, based in denial, and is generally perpetrated with the intention of maintaining and creating happiness. Most people are selfish, in some way or another. Toxic positivity is a subtle expression of selfishness-so subtle that even the perpetrator may not realize why it’s wrong b/c, after all, s/he is only seeking to encourage/uplift people. This is where denial comes in. Most people struggle/suffer, at some point or another. I believe that most people are also aware that there are people who experience more pain than they are aware of from their own lives. Denial allows people to look at someone who reminds them of themselves and assume that they cannot be justified in their suffering b/c the observer is not suffering. Denial also allows people who have suffered to deny the significance of other people’s suffering b/c it is notably different from their own, or b/c they perceive it as being notably different. From here, there are 2 extremes: One is for them to be semi-consciously abusive-meaning that they are generally aware that their actions are hurtful; but, they rationalize it as being justified. The other is to perpetrate toxic positivity-in which they are completely unaware that their actions are hurtful and it’s difficult for them to identify why they would be. Additionally, That feeling when your partner cheated and you don't have the courage to leave him / her so you just death with the pain and live everyday asking questions about your worth. This pain is different from the cheating one_living and seeing him everywhere anticipating when him or she do it again. The best thing is to hire a private investigator Metaspyhub@gmail. com to help you spy on their cellphone remotely just like he did for me...
Amen. At some point we must choose our own health and sanity over submitting ourselves to ongoing, unchanging abuse. We cannot love a narcissist out of their narcissism. The people around us who don't understand the grief we carry are acting out of their own issues, often wanting to silence us for their own comfort, as Dr. Ramani points out here. It's good to surround ourselves with compassionate, supportive friends who get it, and who accept that growth and healing have elements of pain that are unavoidable to that healing journey.
Well put, truth spoken.
6 months after filing for divorce after 30 years of marriage I finally let myself speak with husband. Thanks to YOU and Dr. Carter, I was able to spot the gaslighting and stopped it right there. Thank you for the knowledge you in part.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for talking about this. I basically had to let go of all my friends because when the shit hit the fan for me, as in the end of a catastrophic marriage to a psychopathic narcissist after 25 years that left me destitute followed by an attempted murder felony assault at work, which I am still trying to recover from after 2 1/2 years, all I got from my now ex-religious community was that I was complaining and not changing my karma and wasn't appreciative of what happened and didn't transform it and had to donate money. And my friends basically told me I had to "just think positively and manifest". Many were in the religious group. And I got a lot of "why can't you just forgive and let go". They aren't the ones bankrupt and injured and dealing with all the consequences every day.
Yes, absolutely, that religious crew are some of the biggest enablers - like you could pray it away!!!
@@pjj.5649 Right?
Wow. Your story is almost exactly the same as mine. After going through all that, my cousin WHO IS A LICENCED THERAPIST told me "you have a negative disposition. In the words of Bob Newhart, just stop it." I'd love to hear your update because I'm still stuck after 6 years.
@@yugenknows740 I remain devastated 8 years after leaving my marriage and 1 1/2 years after letting go of my religious beliefs (I mean, the community left me high and dry after my attempted murder so…) in my case it is too late to fix things realistically. Financially I cannot reconstitute myself at my age, not unless I win the lottery. So the fact that I can’t secure a roof over my head when I’m in my mid 50s, we’ll, not a good harbinger. This is what happens when you’re an idealistic idiot who pledges her life to a psychopath and a cult at the age of 18 and keeps on keeping on because “I made a vow to change my karma and work hard for world peace and take responsibility for my role in all that happens”. Right. Well, I made my bed, albeit unwittingly and with good intentions. So now I will sleep in it until I drop dead. Probably soon, from an inevitable heart attack from the stress of living. So don’t base yourself on me. I am very sorry to hear what your therapist cousin said to you, but not surprised. Therapists are the worst. At least the majority of them. I am one and when I had to return to the same place to work where I was almost murdered due to other people’s blatant security breaches that were caught on camera, I was received by non stop slander and rumors about my sanity and attacks by almost all the other therapists (all except 2 out of a large department) and administrators. None of the therapists wanted to admit that what happened to me could happen to them. In general people don’t like to accept that they can be fooled or that shitty things can just happen even if they work hard. So therapists are like everyone else, if they don’t receive good supervision and don’t have an astute therapist themselves, and don’t take their own growth and continuing education seriously, and if they aren’t humble, they will find a myriad ways to blame the victim… I wish you well!
@@CL-lo4wd yep... your story is EXACTLY like mine! 😉
'You can not downward dog away narcissistic abuse.' - SO WELL SAID AND TRUE!
I like finding out that my intuitions were right - I never liked the forced positivity that some people seemed to demand or exude, but I wasn’t sure I was “allowed” to feel that way. Did it make me a cynic?
Then a nice woman I knew got breast cancer. And just about the first thing she said was: “but I’m going to stay positive!” I felt that the world imposed that obligation on her, and I said “you know, it’s ok to grieve, too, and to be mad for a while, and to not be brave and just hate this.”
Never felt entirely sure that that was the right approach, but this podcast is starting to make me feel that most or perhaps all of my intuitions, throughout life, were OK. Such as disliking it when people go over the top in their admiration of some celebrity, or get carried away by their knowledge of fine wines, etc. These things always put me off. But I was led to believe I was “wrong”.
My experience growing up in the church taught me to "do all things without grumbling" and "love hopes all things and endures all things". I believe these scriptures IN CONTEXT but they were taught without context and kept me blinded to the narcissistic abuse I was suffering from my parent and later my spouse. Growing up I was expected to be happy, cheerful, helpful, and grateful. If I had a "bad" emotion I was sent to my room until I was "acceptable". Anything negative was considered sinful. So abusive!
My grandiose spouse has been upset when they hear me talk about my experience of raising 6 kids while they worked 60-80 hours a week and I said it was very hard. They were angry that I "focused on the negative" instead of telling how many great times we had. I should be more positive and dwell on the good memories. Of course it's all about their discomfort in hearing my very real struggle and feelings of abandonment.
I noticed recently the urge to fake a smile during difficult conversations so they won't think I'm upset or angry. Again that conditioning to be cheerful and happy despite how I'm actually feeling. I'm happy to say I'm getting better at catching this and being authentic with my emotions.
Thanks for this video, it addressed some very real issues for me.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. I've had to hear "it was not so bad", " mom & sis never treat me like this", "it's just a personality clash", " we only have one mom, try harder", "stop being negative", "turn the other cheek"etc . I cannot say Thank You enough. This has gone on for 50 yrs. I finally went " no contact" last yr.
You must have been in my house/life growing up. Did you hear, you can't cry all the time? It was a living hell!!! I am NO CONTACT with the torturer.
It's awful you had to deal with that torture. I know you lived through and survived the same kind of nightmare. We are strong. No one else in our dysfunctional families would have had the strength to endure all of the bullying and lies....torture. I wish you were spared from the toxicity of those sick ppl ❤
@@NothingNew4You Thank You ❤ It is so confusing at first because you're just living life and enjoying peace of mind. Then these difficult fam members, who don't know how to smile or laugh, come at us full force with their darkness & misery. It's infuriating that they think they have the right to mistreat us this way. It's a double assault when fam members you thought you could confide in tell you in so many words....." Just suck it up, and move on" They do not understand.
Yes my mother was / still is the only one “allowed “ to have a negative emotion. We barely talk anymore but it’s so true .. all I’m allowed to say is “everything’s great”
This is exactly what I'm talking about. There's always that ONE person who refuses to be there for anyone else because they can't take anymore negativity, but it's ok for THEM to dole it out. These people are very toxic. Deep down, they're just users who drain the eff out of everyone around them. Then they wonder why they're alone.
Thank you! This is so New Age/Prosperity Gospel teaching. And not to mention 'Claim It, Name It Mentality ' This is so rampant now, not even if one is involved with a narcissist. I have been around toxic and narcissist folks and I have to say, its hurtful. We all need to feel heard and yes, positive attitudes are great, but lack of empathy is hurtful! Thanks for touching on this topic!
Amen!
I live in Santa Cruz county in California, one of the hubs of the hyper spiritual community, and I REALLY APPRECIATE this video. Spiritual bypassing is a very real thing, and it IS a form of gaslighting. It’s not spiritual. It’s actually very dark.
And if you really break down the logic of the whole “universe” perspective is actually very narcissistic fundamentally! We are in a relationship with the universe. So shouldn’t there be reciprocity? Equal exchange? Why is it okay to expect the universe to constantly provide, protect, resolve, and give us what we want and need? How is that not mimicking a narcissistic relationship in which one consistently gives more and the other just takes?
How many times have I listened to other's pleasant childhood memories and been not allowed to share my unpleasant childhood memories. Too many. I worked at the library when the book The Secret by Rhonda Byrne was all the rage. This is victim shunning and victim blaming. Thank you Dr. R.
I've been abused all my life . I tried the smiling thing but doesn't work . My face is smiling but my soul is crying . A lot. I'm by myself today scared of people .
Sympathy know how you feel
I feel you 🫂😭
There are good true people out there. Be open to them but guard yourself until you really get to know them. Bad people generally out themselves at some point so listen.
When the ex did the smear campaign (I was still married to him then) I went to get advice from a friend who also was community leader and she advised me to forgive him and move on with positive attitude in our marriage. I didn't know he was narc then. That was the worst piece of advice I ever took as the ex felt my forgiving him was the reason of my guilt of what he was accusing me of and he got nastier. I thank the Almighty for saving me and moving him out of my life.
And now everyone tells me to forgive him for ruining the life of our children and my life. He still thinks he has done nothing wrong.
My ex bf's mom is a psychologist and she kept saying we just weren't a good match when he was an emotional, verbal and physical abuser. Unbelievable
Develop your own friends please.
I remember talking with someone about getting out of a narcissistic relationship literally DESPITE the wave of “good vibes”and “hope it gets better” comments that were happening for MONTHS. When I had to deal with ending a friendship like this myself, it was literally agonizing to see someone else endure the same patterns that he was doing what I did and blamed himself for every single mistake or failure that was bombarded onto him.
Listen, I’m a spiritual person myself, but when someone is actively seeking to violate personal boundaries on a daily basis and expects you to pick up the pieces and solve everything the other person is doing, cut that person out. Be present with yourself, and learn what you’re missing by staying stuck in this situation.
Love that you are touching on this topic!
Toxic positive people are in a deep state of denial from my perspective, and overall… are not actually present with themselves, let alone anybody else.
I call them out and if their behavior is not adjusted/corrected, I then firmly tell them to kick rocks.
Being positive to a narcissist means that your thoughts and feelings mean nothing to them. It's a pass for unlimited abuse.
Yes. To be in a relationship with them you basically need to cease to exist and abandon yourself to them
As psychotherapist of 52 years, love what Dr Ramani says… I regularly listen to her podcasts! She has wealth of real info in narcissists! Thank you so much, Dr Ramani, for your wonderful podcasts!
my god the quality of your work just gets better and better, more people need to hear this! wisdom is the great defender against bullshit.
Thank you. This cuts so close to the bone with me. I was widowed before the alleged pandemic. My family lives 1000 miles away. I'd just restarted my life with a social grief group and joined a small church. The grief group of college educated people all cowered under their beds in irrational fears. The church people were worse. I heard from no one but the lady who collected the money. She sent me emails telling me how to send money without making personal contacts. After a year, my sponsor sent me a card bragging about her happy family bubble and seeing her grandchildren. She knew my bubble consisted of me and my dog, who subsequently died. Her card was cruel. I sent her one back and told her exactly that. I never heard from any of them again until 2 months ago when I got a letter asking for money.
Sorry about your experience. I hope you can find real friends where you live soon.
If you expressed any negativity toward being locked down, you would be shamed. Not talking about Covid itself just the act of expressing unhappiness towards the lockdowns. I thought the second I knew this was going to last more than 2 weeks, about the people in abusive hostile homes especially kids whose only refuge was school.
But the world needs to stop when something "horrible" happens to these narcs.
I’m so absolutely sorry and grieved WITH you. I know the feeling of what you’re going through. That’s absolutely awful. Good on you for sending her back a ‘note’. I do hope you can still find private solus in reading the Bible and music. I too had to step completely away from churches but kept that practice and it has sustained me in the loneliness. I hope we both find better areas of support
. 🎉 😢😮😂😅❤
Love the quote.
" Being positive may not help many problems, but it can annoy enough people, to make it worthwhile "
Brilliant unpacking of the harm created by deadly positivity
The only thing I’ve ever learned to trust in this crazy journey of life is myself and my own feelings. Whether it’s toxic negativity or toxic positivity if it feels sticky or manipulative I’ve learned to walk the hell away. That’s one positive thing I did manage to take away from my former narcissists with the support of wonderful people like Dr. Ramani. I spent too much of my precious time with several of these miserable jerks but until you understand what you’re dealing with it’s really hard to protect yourself. As always thank you Dr. Ramani for all you do.
There can be a really fine line between optimism and denial.
For the pessimist, all surprises are good ones.
I am married to a narcissist. A few years ago, he told me I was not a positive person. I just about fell over. That statement came from one of the most negative people I know. That statement did take me aback , but I knew and now know, I am not a negative person. While going through menopause, I was about 5 yrs into the process, and he said, "When is this menopause thing going to be over?" I had a horrible time with menopause and that statement made me feel so abandoned. I lost a lot of respect for him. We had only been married 5 yrs and I had just had a baby 2yrs earlier at 42 yrs of age. What a scum bag!
That had tp be he;ll in flesh form!!
Oh I was there. But I guarantee that if you left, he’d beg.
When I shut down and wanted nothing more, suddenly he started offering me money and new appliances for our home, things I had needed repaired. I didn’t care anymore. I walked away.
This reminded me of my narc, cheater and abuser ex telling me my glass was always half empty while his was always half full 😂
I met so many people that were toxic positivity because i was trying to heal from PTSD. My feelings were never validated and always have been gaslighted! I left that group of friends because they made me feel worse! I also have family members that are toxic positivity and make me feel the same way! I feel like they are everywhere! Dr. Ramani, I want to thank you for making this video!
My first run in with toxic positivity was when I went to a Christian counselor, recommended by a friend, for my PTSD that resulted from my father molesting and raping me. She told me to look around the room and find Jesus. "Jesus is always there", she said. How disgusting. Jesus allowed my dad to do what he did and was a voyeur, just watching what was being done. Was I supposed to be happy that Jesus was there with me while I was being abused? Just disgusting. Turned me off to organized religion.
Most of society don’t have emotional intelligence to deal with their own emotions or the emotions of others it simply wasn’t taught.
Thank you for this video. This clarifies so much for me! I'm a generally positive person who finally left a toxic narcissistic relationship so I was very interested in what you had to say. It sounds to me that positivity in itself isn't necessarily bad but when a person USES the positivity position to ALLOW them to continue to terrorize people it's just another gaslighting tool that the toxic positive person uses to misdirect the blame back to the victim and ALSO guarantees that the victim will stick around for more. Thank you for your expertise on such a complicated subject. I appreciate you very much!
Thank you for telling it like it is! I was able to recognize that giving second chances to a narcissist would not change their behavior. Going no contact was the best thing I did. The narcissist moved on to create problems for others.
I once went to a hypnotist, I was so trauma bonded to an on-off-on boyfriend and needed a way out of my internal hell. Had no idea what trauma bonding was, or that the boyfriend was displaying heavy narcissistic behaviors. The hypnotist's grand idea was to help draw out whatever love and compassion he could draw out of me for the guy. Big fail. Meanwhile, an old school pal married the hypnotist and became all flowy and dreamy, the opposite of her usual wry, sensible self. Then she had a bout of depression that she never recovered from. He divorced her because she had gotten so "out there". Not long after, she comitted suicide, and her former husband told people that for her sake, it was really a blessing. While listening to this video, my mind kept traveling back to my friend. I think I may have a better understanding of her circumstances. I used to have a lot of toxicly positive friends and often felt inadequate around them. The past 20 years, I've been far less spiritual, and have lamented the absence of all the esoteric, new age stuff I used to do. A few years ago, I began tuning out when someone droned on about forgiveness, and felt like an oddball in some circles. This video just let me off the hook. Thank you thank you thank you Dr. Ramani. Most valuable video yet.
Yes. I live in Utah and mormons definitely have that toxic positivity problem. Its horrible. People who are not religious who are new here, at first get confused when they arrive because all they see and meet is “nice” and “positive” smiley people, not some toxic culture everyone warned them about. But once they get to deal with real problems or abuse, and mormons are around, they finally get to see that its all toxic positivity, pretenses, and indifference. Judgement or agenda behind a smile. Its so evil. There are sooo many unhappy marriages here, and so many women abused. And the church is even more evil, because they have tons of money and resources, but they always cover up cases of abuse, instead of assisting police with investigations, helping put perpetrators behind bars.
I had an employer once who was like this. I mentioned to him one day that I had a cold - sniffles, headache. This man said to me "we don't get sick here." I was stunned!
You are a great woman and a great professionist. Only one thing: most of this "positive thinking " are not real empathic but dark empath/ minor narcissists/ covert narc. I just saw and listened to some
Your presence brought my so much comfort and grounding in my darkest, tormented days. Thank you for bringing clarity and light to us.
Dr Ramani has been my guardian angel for a number of years...read listen learn and believe in your instincts when dealing with people...our gut usually speaks to us but unfortunately we don't listen enough to it.....
Thank you so much. For the past years I have felt so lonely due to toxic positivity. I have relatives who pushed me away because they used it during the pandemic, as you mentioned, when I was going through some terrible events and lots of grief and they chided me for not being positive and enjoying life, and just the other day I was talking on the phone and one and told them something negative and they said "Oh, I didn't want to hear anything bad, I wanted good news." Seriously?! Also, recently I see how it has affected friends and others around me. I currently have DVTs in my leg. DVTs can be fatal. When I tell people this they completely blow me off. I could drop dead if these things travel, people! But they say, "Oh, you'll be fine" or "Think positively," etc. They just cannot deal with anything negative. It makes me feel so isolated, so invisible, so uncared for. It also reminds me of the religiosity I grew up with. I need to greyrock some of these people but one or two I might be able to say that I feel disrepected and disregarded when they refuse to bear witness to my truth.
I can relate. I have also noticed they do talk about negativity though in the form of judging and gossiping about other people. Or they spend their time and energy on whatever is on their phone or TV, which is often negative. So many people have their priorities mixed up.
❤ thank you for this great clarity, I finally have an answer. I do see how they think positive dismissals of your pains and frustrations, righteously, can help you move on but it is temporary. It cycles back to you in life when you dont fully process those issues. Especially when you are gaslit into believing you are the cause of all those pains therefore you must suffer alone. That was always a hurt I could not get over. The disloyalty and looking down upon you after you experience a trauma, how the blame is put on you, the 'come back after you realize its always your fault, you are the problem'. Leaves you feeling very alone, confused, and different.
Thank you for talking about this! My husband grew up with an extremely negative narcissist father and a negative enabling mother who benefitted from the abuse of her sons. He didn't get much of a childhood, he was working like a dog from a very early age. As a consequence, to cope with this I think he has a tendency to naively grab on to the latest self-help fad and be toxically positive at times. Don't get me wrong, I love his positivity as it is a great foil to my pessimism. I am also amazed that he turned out as loving and positive as he is considering what he went through, (his brother did not fare as well). But I have to call him out when he tries to deny me my feelings by giving me his "You have to be more positive" platitudes. I also have to call him out about how he REALLY feels and remind him that it is OK for him to be depressed and not feel good, and that he can come to me with those feelings, that he doesn't have to hide them from me.
Hi Dr. Ramani I love your video they have helped me cope with narcissist abuse from my parents. If it wasn't for you I would be clueless about narcissism. Love ad respect thank you for helping our community. Watch the as y'all so she can get paid. 😊🌷🌸💝
I love when Dr. Ramani gets spicy. She's describing my elders in this one!!
You've just described my older sister. I can't with her. I'm a realist and the scapegoat and in no contact with our "mother" who is getting more awful with age. She's a champion enabler and feeding that hurtful and awful crap.
Her positively is toxic.
The only people that tell me to be positive are the one people that give me no reasons for being so.
It's like a threat. I "have to" be positive and "have hope" because if I don't, they are gonna harm me.
Whew, whew, whewwwwwwww
It me almost 4 years to really get comfortable with healing years of mental health problems, Narcissistic abuse being at the top. I got a lot of grief that I wasn’t miraculously better after 6 months….
The more I started seeing results, the I was motivated to take my time and discover more. I MADE the space I needed
My ex was toxically positive. Such an important topic that is rarely discussed. Thank you.
Thank you so much for this! It's super validating and helpful to undo the gaslighting and added wounding that I continue to get from positivity police. I'm so tired of it. Thank you so much for not just saying this, but genuinely caring, and for reminding us that our negative response, or lack of sweeping it under the rug, is actually a good thing and a healthy response to very unhealthy behaviors.
Well said
Dang, Dr. Ramani. You have done it again. My vulnerable narc mother did this anytime I expressed anything that made me upset. She would say it hurt her heart and made her sad/feel bad and that she just couldn't hear about it - b/c it was too much.
We are predictably estranged, though I am trying to figure out how to reconcile so that she can have more support as she nears the end of her life and is dealing with blindness. It's really sad the devastation that is wrought by NA. Not just on the people being abused, but the abusers themselves as well as the ripple effect to countless others.
Because, I want to be there for her as much as I can - but I will never allow myself to be abused again. It's a balancing act I wouldn't wish on anyone.
Peace and love to all of you brave fellow humans. Keep healing and keep your inner lights safe and warm. 💚🌻 ☮
Edit/PS: love your quip about "everyone has a light inside". I feel your sentiment. Because while some lights sparkle, some are dim, while others are blowtorches that scorch the earth. Good grief, lol!
Woah! Thank you for that. I do have a friend like that, and only recently realized she was excusing bad behaviour in the name of keeping the peace.
I'm crying as I watch this, because you're basically explaining the past month of my life. I was dating a recovering addict for 6 months, and everything seemed fine, until it wasn't. I have no idea how much was narcissism, how much was past addiction, but that isn't my job to figure out. He's still trying to gaslight me and the only solace I get is watching these videos so I know I'm not alone and not losing my mind.
Dr. Ramani, you're saving my mind, my heart and my soul. This is so healing. Thank you with all my heart.
Thanks SO MUCH for your honesty, courage, and validation!!!
Your description about the narcissists "potential..." And everything is so accurate, Dr. Ramani. Thank you for this incredibly supportive and validating video of the survivors' experiences. Thank you!❤❤❤
Fantastic speech!
Dr. Ramani, I wish I would have been taught these things in childhood and had left my childish thinking behind. I am so susceptible to those universe stories, Sadguru stuff etc. And it keeps me in a state of hope and false bliss to cover up my depression, grief, sadness.
Thank you so much ❤ Again a very importend Video from you, to understand this behavior. You was really helping me in the last years to understand 😅
Dr. Ramani thank you so much for your work. It's been so pivotal for me across two unhealthy relationships that I found myself in and has not only helped me to reflect on what was unhealthy in the other, but in myself as well. Plenty of good topics to bring up with my personal therapist as I learn to navigate romantic relationships and preparing myself for the right one in the future. I wish things weren't this difficult, but it is, end of story. I've really learned so much and continue to find new things I need to learn to better myself and my understanding of what really makes a healthy and balanced relationship. Thank you for putting all of this out for free. Amazing stuff!
So so true, these are people who have never experienced toxic abuse in reality but believe they know all. For them everything is simple as they are always giving suggestions from outside never knowing but believe they have seen that and more.
I wish I had the information in this video 30 years ago. It would’ve made many things in my life so much better to have this information. I would have avoided numerous personal and professional, narcissistic relationships, and would not have wasted so much time trying to gain the love for my narcissistic family members. Thank you so much Dr. Ramani. I agree with the comments below. I think this is the most important and powerful video you have ever made. Thank you so much for being the voice of sanity and an insane world with all the chronic “toxic positivity.“
This is so important to be denounced and discussed. Thank you, Dr. Ramani🙏❤
took heaps of notes down. doctor, youre really cooking in this one. good lord have mercy
I was just thinking about the toxic positivity in the spiritual community earlier today and then boom you post this video, thank you Dr Ramani for the upload. 💜✨
To hear this words - it is healing! Thank you, dr Ramani!
Thank you so much for this topic! I needed this not necessarily because of hardcore narcissists but because a lot of my friends and acquaintances are of the (sometimes annoying) opinion "what you direct your energy to will gain more power" and thus stop your sometimes being disheartened, complaining or discussing problems or loss in the bud - while it might seem good to them, I find it harmful. It seems inauthentic (and often uncaring) to me. I think sometimes one has to go through these phases and feelings to arrive at a solution. They just want to view the world through their rose-coloured glasses, paint it as they want it and hardcore ignore certain things as long as they can. The second they can't anymore because it concerns them, the 'rules' are all different, of course. You expressed it much better than I did. Shaming, self-righteousness and stonewalling, exactly. I also found that by ignoring what they don't want to see or deal with they are really good at delegating and imposing the unwanted stuff and 'dirty-work' on friends and family, until those people learn to defend themselves. Urgh!
You are such a blessing Dr. Thank you so much for this video. I have struggled so much with friends and family who use toxic positivity to invalidate my chronic pain. Your words are truly describing what I’ve been wanting to communicate for so long. Thank you for making it so clear and so real for me. I watch you from the Netherlands very often! All the best to you ♥️
People invalidating my reality is my biggest threat to my life right now. It's not a children's game
Dr. Ramini I love you 💕 You're such a blessing to me. Thank you kindly for sharing and helping me 🙏
Omg I've experienced this, I thought I was the only one whos dealt with this.
I am so happy you are exposing all of their crap to the whole world Dr. Ramani
Thank you!!
this is right on time. the other day i went to my boyfriend about sadness and depression over the way he’s been treating me, he said that “being sad for no reason is stupid”, and that i need to learn how to “turn lemons into lemonade”. he doesn’t hear me at all when i say how invalidating it is. he just says i should go find someone else to vent to, and he doesn’t need that kind of drama in his life. it hurts.
thank you for sharing your expertise. it really helps.
Thank you Dr. Ramani ❤Toxic positivity is an extremely powerful tool for narcissists to hook and bait you. It's just an illusion, a fantasy that hoovers you.
You cannot downward dog narcissistic abuse. 😂 👏🏻 Brilliant Dr Ramani! ❤
Thank you for this Video Dr. Ramani and calling out on that bullshit. I had my fair share on that toxic positivity from my friends and even therapists. Aside frome the typically "Oh come on, you're exaggerating" and "you might got that persons intentions wrong" stuff there where two other recurring practices that really messed me up. One was trying to shine a positive light on things that happened to me, while I was still struggling and suffering and the abuse didn't end yet. I heard things like "oh come on, you needed this" and "it will only make you stronger, so much stronger!". Well, I think nobody needs the bad treatment of a illminded person and it didn't make me stronger until I got away from all that shit and finally got the help I needed. In fact it made me just more physically and mentally ill. Also I never thought of myself as weak, just didn't learn proper boundary setting and other important life skills in my childhood. In that moment all I needed was a friend who would listen and try to understand and some compassion.
The other thing was the suggestion that if I think such mean and evil stuff, mean and evil stuff would happen to me. And don't get me wrong, I got very bitter in that time and my bitterness started hurting me. But it made me feel like all the bad treatment happened to me because I wasn't positive enough. If I saw bad stuff coming on the way, it suddenly came true because I thought of it. Suddenly all the bad stuff in my life happened because I couldn't have happier thoughts.
I've been an very cheerful person my whole life. I always were that get-back-on-your-feet person and this treatment felt like my own medicine being thrown into my face as poison by people who'd rather live in a magical world and keep that image up, instead of seeing and recognizing my suffering (and maybe their own). What really helped were finally therapists listening, understanding my situation and helping me navigating out of that mess, that became my life. Still on my way with that, but I'm happy I'm not alone with my thoughts on the toxicity of forcing positivity on people for the sake of an "one happy world" illusion.
oh noooo not that one 'you may have got his intentions wrong'' Oh I have seen that that is crazy
@@beaulieuc8910 yeah, I 'loved' that one and got that a lot, like A LOT. Sometimes that got topped by "you're only projecting your own bad intentions on that person". Works wonders if you wanna destroy a persons trust in their own perception and intuition and can never be proven wrong.
My ex-nar and I went to Christian counseling and I was told to love him out of his horrible abuse of me. If I had followed her advice I would be dead right now.. I had been doing this since the age of fifteen and then at 35- he was still no different. Thank you so much for your insight.
I have a sister who tells me she doesn’t have to listen to my drama about narcissists abuse- I am excluding her from my life- let her live in her little world of rainbows and blue skies
Needed this video today, thank you
Thankyou Dr Ramani, you have taught me sooo much. I packed up and safely left my charming, gaslighting, Dr J and Mr Hyde Narcissistic relationship. Thankyou 🌻
I am a professional psychic and what the "universe" has taught me is that EACH PERSON IS RESPONSIBLE FOR LEARNING TO BE REAL ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES. We are confronted with difficult situations and people in order to make us grow emotionally and protect ourselves from what destroys our intuition and inner truth. Learn psychology first and your spirituality will make sense and make you stronger. Be aware. Be knowledgeable. We live in THIS reality and it is our responsibility to grow by facing our experiences truthfully.
I'm a psychic too and I totally agree the individual has to take responsibility for themselves. However as a child or an adult traumatised by a narc parent this is a difficult bind which needs therapy
This is a great video. In my experience, most people simply don't want to hear anything "negative" (I live in the U.S. Maybe it's different other places.) I worked as an occupational therapist for 20 years. A few years ago, I was working at a pediatric burn hospital and it was really intense. One day, I had an appointment to get my haircut right after work. I usually didn't schedule appointments where I had to interact with people right after work because I needed time to decompress but this was the only appointment available. I had been going to this stylist for 3 years and never discussed what I did, never said anything "negative", etc. When I sat down in his chair, he asked me how my day was going. I had just finished an extremely difficult session with a pediatric burn patient and I was honest. Just told him the basics in 1-2 minutes. No gory details. His response was something like, "Oh that's really a downer and depressing. You just threw off my vibe." I never said anything about my work again (not that I had before). My experience has been most people want to hear uplifting platitudes. I don't want to be Debbie Downer all the time, but my experience has been that it's the rare person who can hold space for you in the U.S. Most people are in their own bubble and they like that way.
This came out at the perfect time. Thanks, it means alot to hear this perspective from a licensed professional. I was beginning to think that the entire world had gone crazy.
Wow! You are such an eye opener. I love you to pieces. My lifetime dream: to sit down with you and talk....and talk. Maybe write the book of my life... surrounded by All You describe since birth. Thanks for what you do!!!.....life saving techniques. ❤
I have followed Dr.Ramani's channel for almost 3 years now. While I do identify as a healer, omnist, genuinely positive person and also hate labels (lol), I think the KEY to toxic positivity is control. Narcissists use tools to gain power; positivity CAN be another tool. Being authentic means accepting our humanity, failures, short comings, etc. and accepting people right where they are at. Healing means knowing what we can control and what we cannot. There is no shame in being positive but rather taking ownership if our positivity/behavior is injuring others. It all comes back to autonomy and radical acceptance. Love this discussion.❤
Ok, once again you discuss many of the same personality traits my sister exhibits. Sadly, her social worker husband is a hide your head in the sand enabler. The longer I can go no contact the better I feel. This video was spot on with her behavior.
I have found that unless someone has been through similar or parallel life experiences, whether they are Christian, non-Christian, ect., they do not understand the whole picture as you see it. Toxic positivity is REAL. Forgiveness is for my benefit. My peace. If the unwelcome behavior doesn't change, I keep my distance. Another person's choices are NOT my responsibility. I am responsible for my choices, my behavior and no one else's. I am feeling alone, but I am also feeling safer and free-er. God is with me. I trust Him.
The flying monkey in my experience stayed 80% of the time, night and day, to be a support to the narcissist in my house. She even told me twice it would be best if I left my house, move out! Greater than 1 year later I am free, but she is still there enabling.