Couldn't agree with you more with regards to the obsession for miniatures in games. Fine do an add on box full of miniatures for those who want them but leave them out of the base game. Dune Imperium is a good example of how to do it. I'm quite happy to use cardboard & wood tokens thank you.
Market research shows big boxes sell more. At least the expansion is only 25 bucks. Gives an extra full size box to organize shadows of brimstone. This game is improved by keeping notes on key story elements. Especially if you have a wife that can't play longer than 30 mins at a time before falling asleep. Thanks Lucky Duck for having a save system built in to the app.
So what do you people prefer for board games materials, tokens and figures: 1) paper (waste of trees) 2) wood (waste of trees) 3) plastic (slow decomposition and environmental burden for production) Seems to me that everything has its flaws.... They could at least minimise the materials used for the games.
Paper and wood are renewables and don’t pollute our bodies. Plastic is not a renewable, most of it is not recycled and micro-plastics are literally killing us.
@@TheDungeonDive renewable yes....but not that fast because of the way we are doing things on this planet sadly. A lot of forests are gone without replacement. And that is a well known fact. Plastic is bad as everything else is nowadays, like the polluted air, the synthetic and mutated foods and the poisoned fruits and water.... Literally it is a God send miracle we are still alive if you think of those things seriously. But, why don't they try to make recyclable plastic or easily disposable so we don't have to pollute the environment and ourselves? I am 100% they can manage to do it. That is my question.
I just bought this because it was so much value for the low cost (as well as Tiny Epic Dungeons right after). Everyone suggested Gloomhaven to me when I first started buying board games, so I bought it as well as the video game and I still don't know how to play it after owning each for over a year now. I guess it's not being sold anymore and is going for a high price used, so I guess I can sell it and get more games I'll actually enjoy.
It seems like these huge minis are more of an extra to paint, and display on a shelf. Everyone would be better served if they were sold separately. One man's trash is another's treasure.
Me and my girlfriend enjoyed it. We recently bought the expansion. My main quiver with the game is the amount of luck involved. I wish there was less luck and more strategy. Too many times my girlfriend luckily stumbled across all of her exploration objectives very early and all close together.
I'm just the opposite. I want my games to be almost entirely lucked base. :) I want to roll dice and see what happens. But that's because I suck at games.
You're right about the NPCs going on tokens. But these guys make Joan of Arc, and they wanted to cross-sell to JoA collectors. All the minis are usable in JoA. It was a marketing decision, not a practical decision, and it hurts the game. Nonetheless, I'll be painting them all.
I agree that this game doesn't need plastic and would be better served by tokens with nice art on them. Regardless, I'm intrigued with its gameplay so its going on my radar. Good review!
But if I can't complain, then what is the comment section for? 😋 I just picked this up on sale and looking forward to giving it a shot. I hear you on "story games". As an RPG player I was at first enamored with the idea of these, but I learned I prefer a replayable board game that generates a barebones story because story driven games have not recreated Rpgs, but instead have made subpar books combined with a subpar game. Better just to read a good book or play a good game. And if I really want to scratch that Rpg itch find some friends.
Thanks for the overview! I've been waffling about whether to try this out, mainly because I'd probably play solo, sometimes with two. Can I ask why the storytelling and game sang so much more for you with 4 players vs solo?
I enjoyed it for solo, but the mode I was playing on was pretty rambling and plodding. There is a solo mode that is more structured and I might try that again. I think I’d rather just play a regular gamebook, especially one of the new open world gamebook series. My favorite part about the game is the attention to detail. The art has a very unique aerial view that is reminiscent of what you might see from a hot air balloon. It’s not an overhead scale you encounter often in board games.
For me, the best is Fabled Lands. Love that series. Pure questing adventure. I think there are 7 books. You can start in any one of them, and you can travel between them. The books form a giant world for you to explore.
@@davidweisberger3915 In addition to Fabled Lands, right now we have Legendary Kingdoms, Steam Highwayman, and the Vulcanverse open world gamebook series in print. All of them are.modeled on Fabled Lands.
I agree. This game is really good with two or more players. Almost a totally different game compared to the solo aspect which I find it kind of meh. The social interaction and competitiveness is one of the best parts of the game. The Dark Quarter looks to make this system better for solo and improve every aspect that was destinies. Looking forward to that.
Okay, Daniel, no hybrid board game app trashing, buuuuuuut... I wonder what the general medium of board gaming will be in twenty years? They're starting to sell a lot of board style games straight to Steam these days. Fury of Dracula, Tokaido, and Gloomhaven are a few that come to mind. They're also making games like Armello, and releasing them straight to digital format. Of course people will still be playing board games in twenty years, but it looks like the industry is getting comfortable with the digital platform. It's interesting to consider because if cardboard games become less popular, it might become an elitist collectors hobby. Maybe you'd consider doing a video on the best digital adaptations of board games? For example, I think that Twilight Struggle is better when played online.
Love your take on the complaints about app driven games but also on the miniature obsession in the industry. I wish there were options for non-mini versions of games. Tiny Epic Dungeons for example, gives me these cool boss meeples and then I get these small, ugly hero minis, I don't get it.
OH man, that was my exact complaint about Tiny Epic Dungeons in my review! The boss/monster meeples look amazing, and then the heroes are ugly lumps of plastic.
Amazing review as ever, Daniel. I agree on the miniature overload. Every kickstarter seems to put more effort into the presentation to make sure they get funded but the games turn out poorly (Bardsung, case in point).
Recently I've been getting into print-and-play and aiming to minimize plastic. Historically PNP is all paper/cardboard -- some folks are adding 3d plastic printers into the mix of late but I'm avoiding that. Still, if you look closely PNP has its own minefield of vinyl (plastic) box wraps and PVA (plastic) adhesives. Ultimately to fully avoid plastic would mean getting used to a very different material aesthetic for boardgames -- less glossy-looking, less slick-feeling, and probably (unless one switched to wood, as I've seen some do) a little less durable. Dunno if consumers will go for it.
I really don't like App in game...Lol just kidding ! Thx for the review. I was really on the fence for this one when the hype was on, but it looked to much like 7th continent and Tainted Grail light. Agree, that it look more fun with 2-3 players. But strictly for solo play, I think I would miss an important aspect of the game which is in the secret destinies of each player. I prefer to play Cartaventura in this perspective. Small box, exploration, no useless plastic. You confirm my first impression ! Also agree on the plastic fetish in boardgames to much pollution, cost, roomspace for nothing more then flashy (useless) miniatures. Anyway, thx as always for this review !
Played the 5 adventures in "exploration" mode. Too app-dependent for my taste. The boards and the miniatures are practically useless (you really don´t need them to play the game). In addition, the stories are a bit simple and the objective is not at all clear from the beginning.
There is an official app for fans to create their own adventures and share them, for your interest, by the way. It might open a door for potential good stories along the way.
Couldn't agree with you more with regards to the obsession for miniatures in games. Fine do an add on box full of miniatures for those who want them but leave them out of the base game. Dune Imperium is a good example of how to do it. I'm quite happy to use cardboard & wood tokens thank you.
Market research shows big boxes sell more. At least the expansion is only 25 bucks. Gives an extra full size box to organize shadows of brimstone. This game is improved by keeping notes on key story elements. Especially if you have a wife that can't play longer than 30 mins at a time before falling asleep. Thanks Lucky Duck for having a save system built in to the app.
You are absolutely right about the miniatures and their purpose..
(..regardless the fact that they're gorgeous..)
So what do you people prefer for board games materials, tokens and figures:
1) paper (waste of trees)
2) wood (waste of trees)
3) plastic (slow decomposition and environmental burden for production)
Seems to me that everything has its flaws....
They could at least minimise the materials used for the games.
Paper and wood are renewables and don’t pollute our bodies. Plastic is not a renewable, most of it is not recycled and micro-plastics are literally killing us.
@@TheDungeonDive renewable yes....but not that fast because of the way we are doing things on this planet sadly.
A lot of forests are gone without replacement.
And that is a well known fact.
Plastic is bad as everything else is nowadays, like the polluted air, the synthetic and mutated foods and the poisoned fruits and water....
Literally it is a God send miracle we are still alive if you think of those things seriously.
But, why don't they try to make recyclable plastic or easily disposable so we don't have to pollute the environment and ourselves?
I am 100% they can manage to do it.
That is my question.
There is some good news. Insects and bacteria are starting to evolve to eat plastic. That's kind of cool and totally wild!
I just bought this because it was so much value for the low cost (as well as Tiny Epic Dungeons right after). Everyone suggested Gloomhaven to me when I first started buying board games, so I bought it as well as the video game and I still don't know how to play it after owning each for over a year now. I guess it's not being sold anymore and is going for a high price used, so I guess I can sell it and get more games I'll actually enjoy.
The incredible honesty about the miniatures is just not found anywhere else. I love miniatures, but they need to contribute to the game.
Agree. When they contribute to the game, they're great! :)
It seems like these huge minis are more of an extra to paint, and display on a shelf. Everyone would be better served if they were sold separately. One man's trash is another's treasure.
There is an expansion which allows for 4 players, but in a 2 vs 2 team setup. In case your group grows.
Me and my girlfriend enjoyed it. We recently bought the expansion. My main quiver with the game is the amount of luck involved. I wish there was less luck and more strategy. Too many times my girlfriend luckily stumbled across all of her exploration objectives very early and all close together.
I'm just the opposite. I want my games to be almost entirely lucked base. :) I want to roll dice and see what happens. But that's because I suck at games.
Agree on the plastic bloat. I do enjoy pragmatic production choices, personally.
You're right about the NPCs going on tokens. But these guys make Joan of Arc, and they wanted to cross-sell to JoA collectors. All the minis are usable in JoA. It was a marketing decision, not a practical decision, and it hurts the game. Nonetheless, I'll be painting them all.
I agree that this game doesn't need plastic and would be better served by tokens with nice art on them. Regardless, I'm intrigued with its gameplay so its going on my radar. Good review!
It's a good game.
But if I can't complain, then what is the comment section for? 😋 I just picked this up on sale and looking forward to giving it a shot. I hear you on "story games". As an RPG player I was at first enamored with the idea of these, but I learned I prefer a replayable board game that generates a barebones story because story driven games have not recreated Rpgs, but instead have made subpar books combined with a subpar game. Better just to read a good book or play a good game. And if I really want to scratch that Rpg itch find some friends.
Ok, a little bit of complaining is fine. ;)
Thanks for the overview! I've been waffling about whether to try this out, mainly because I'd probably play solo, sometimes with two. Can I ask why the storytelling and game sang so much more for you with 4 players vs solo?
It was more fun experiencing it as a group, and hearing what was happening to others.
I enjoyed it for solo, but the mode I was playing on was pretty rambling and plodding. There is a solo mode that is more structured and I might try that again. I think I’d rather just play a regular gamebook, especially one of the new open world gamebook series. My favorite part about the game is the attention to detail. The art has a very unique aerial view that is reminiscent of what you might see from a hot air balloon. It’s not an overhead scale you encounter often in board games.
I can see that. This definitely feels like a SUPER game book.
I’m waiting on Alba. What are some other open world gamebooks out there?
For me, the best is Fabled Lands. Love that series. Pure questing adventure. I think there are 7 books. You can start in any one of them, and you can travel between them. The books form a giant world for you to explore.
Ooh, that sounds awesome!
@@davidweisberger3915 In addition to Fabled Lands, right now we have Legendary Kingdoms, Steam Highwayman, and the Vulcanverse open world gamebook series in print. All of them are.modeled on Fabled Lands.
I agree. This game is really good with two or more players. Almost a totally different game compared to the solo aspect which I find it kind of meh. The social interaction and competitiveness is one of the best parts of the game. The Dark Quarter looks to make this system better for solo and improve every aspect that was destinies. Looking forward to that.
Okay, Daniel, no hybrid board game app trashing, buuuuuuut... I wonder what the general medium of board gaming will be in twenty years? They're starting to sell a lot of board style games straight to Steam these days. Fury of Dracula, Tokaido, and Gloomhaven are a few that come to mind. They're also making games like Armello, and releasing them straight to digital format.
Of course people will still be playing board games in twenty years, but it looks like the industry is getting comfortable with the digital platform. It's interesting to consider because if cardboard games become less popular, it might become an elitist collectors hobby.
Maybe you'd consider doing a video on the best digital adaptations of board games? For example, I think that Twilight Struggle is better when played online.
I doubt any of us will even be alive in 20 years. :). I might visit the topic of digital style board games at some point.
@@TheDungeonDive I'll be 72. Stay with me, man. I like your channel.
67 here. :).
1000% with you on the industry's ludicrous size and plastic fetish. Give me wooden cubes or tokens all day.
Because wood is plenty and we can cut down a few forests to make tokens right?
Love your take on the complaints about app driven games but also on the miniature obsession in the industry. I wish there were options for non-mini versions of games. Tiny Epic Dungeons for example, gives me these cool boss meeples and then I get these small, ugly hero minis, I don't get it.
OH man, that was my exact complaint about Tiny Epic Dungeons in my review! The boss/monster meeples look amazing, and then the heroes are ugly lumps of plastic.
Thanks for the vid!
Another good review. Too bad the miniature hate took away from what sounds like a positive review.
The two things are not mutually exclusive.
Amazing review as ever, Daniel. I agree on the miniature overload. Every kickstarter seems to put more effort into the presentation to make sure they get funded but the games turn out poorly (Bardsung, case in point).
I do wish that I'd backed this game.
I just got it retail. Totally worth it.
Recently I've been getting into print-and-play and aiming to minimize plastic. Historically PNP is all paper/cardboard -- some folks are adding 3d plastic printers into the mix of late but I'm avoiding that. Still, if you look closely PNP has its own minefield of vinyl (plastic) box wraps and PVA (plastic) adhesives. Ultimately to fully avoid plastic would mean getting used to a very different material aesthetic for boardgames -- less glossy-looking, less slick-feeling, and probably (unless one switched to wood, as I've seen some do) a little less durable. Dunno if consumers will go for it.
I love smaller games from places like drivethruRPG.
Played this solo and really didn’t enjoy it.there’s no real game solo, just rolling to pass checks while slowly exploring an ok story
Yep. Exactly. Works so much better multiplayer and competitive. So glad I played it like that.
I really don't like App in game...Lol just kidding ! Thx for the review. I was really on the fence for this one when the hype was on, but it looked to much like 7th continent and Tainted Grail light. Agree, that it look more fun with 2-3 players. But strictly for solo play, I think I would miss an important aspect of the game which is in the secret destinies of each player. I prefer to play Cartaventura in this perspective. Small box, exploration, no useless plastic. You confirm my first impression ! Also agree on the plastic fetish in boardgames to much pollution, cost, roomspace for nothing more then flashy (useless) miniatures. Anyway, thx as always for this review !
I'd agree that it is like a lighter version of 7thC and TG, and I think that's why I like it more than those games. It's more effortlessly fun.
Played the 5 adventures in "exploration" mode. Too app-dependent for my taste. The boards and the miniatures are practically useless (you really don´t need them to play the game). In addition, the stories are a bit simple and the objective is not at all clear from the beginning.
Perfect game to pass on to someone else to enjoy when you’re done with it.
How good the stories are? I've heard that the first one is brilliant but the rest of them are not that engaging...
Can't really say. Only played the one, but we enjoyed it.
There is an official app for fans to create their own adventures and share them, for your interest, by the way. It might open a door for potential good stories along the way.
Oh nice!
The most unnecessary use of minis in an adventure board game ever.
Agree.