the market segment is expanding due to declining economic factors. Think less "beginner bike" and more "cheap small displacement segment". Market saturation in this segment would send a negative signal to the industry and could be catastrophic. Good US is a small market internationally for motorcycles. Nah I wouldn't pick it up. Stock DRZsm great first bike, mod it instead of buying a second bike. Jump straight to third bike after
Spite. Here in vegas there's a few months wait for the MSF course at the colleges. And even the 450 dollar class at harley is filling up fast. There's thousands of new riders yearly in just this one city. USA wide its gotta be insane.
If you see a 500, do you say "that's a five zero zero"? Try saying four fifty seven. It actually sounds alright and rolls off the tongue just fine. Four five seven sounds like a child trying to read for the first time. Like five zero zero. Yes, little buddy. That's three numbers. Now put them together to make a big one and you're on the right track ;)
I don't think we will see a Tuono 457 either, however I DO think we will see a Toureg 457. ADV segment is the biggest thing right now and the amount of proper beginner ADVs is pretty limited, so Aprilia could really capitalize on that. Been thinking of a new lightweight sportbike for next year as a toy, and as someone who loves Apes, Im very interested in this thing. Also, as an aside. Spoke with owner of a dealer with was there at Misano for the unveil. Apparently he was told by Aprilia to expect these in North America in March/April (tentative of course) and while he wasnt able to get exact pricing out of them, they were sure to say that it was "very competitive" with the existing A2 sportbike rivals. This thing is being manufactured in India, similar to the KTM after all.
I feel like you certainly neglected to mention the CF moto 450 in this conversation. I see it doing great things, and for a solid price. Keep pounding Harley. you may be the one voice that saves the company.
Regarding the end of your video, about whether or not new riders care about all the tech. I can't speak from an insider perspective on the motorcycle industry as someone who is just a regular consumer there, but I work corporate level in the auto industry, and have worked for multiple brands. Something I've seen time and time again is that the #1 deciding factor for people buying their first NEW car is tech and features. More price conscious buyers tend to end up buying used, whereas we see people buying their first new car as making something that (to them) feels more aspirational and as such they want the tech and toys. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happens in the motorcycle market. I agree traction control and rider modes are probably superfluous at this point, even to the target buyer, however things like the nice big TFT and quickshifter are totally things that I think probably are a big deal to first time buyers.
the number 1 thing on my list when I was searching for a beginner bike was price. I dont want to drop a ton of cash on something I might end up not doing in a year...or something that might get dropped... and I dont want a ton of tech or at least complicated parts because maintenance should be simple on a beginner bike and simplicity nearly always equals reliability I like the TFT dont get me wrong but a regular speed/tac dial would be fine. I SO AGREE about cruise control. I waaaaant this. although I dont know if I feel comfortable adding it to a beginner bike with someone just getting the hang of riding...I could see it ending badly in some cases but also just...beginners should be learning how to modulate their speed and getting a feel for how fast they are traveling as well..I dont know if giving them a crutch with CC is a good idea for someone who is learning. I guess thats just mixed feelings I forgive you for beating up on HD. :D
@@wanderer7779I use CC on my 660 constantly. I ride highway for 20 mins from my house to the twisties, plus any lower speed zones I just stick it on and sit up and relax for a minute
In regard to the sub-500cc segment growing so much, I feel like it has a lot to do with the fact that entry-level bikes have increased in size over the years. For "full sized" bikes, 250s are basically laughable. They're great to learn on, but they're pitifully slow on the open American road. Which I think led a lot of people to just bite the bullet and start on 600cc bikes. But these days, bikes like the Ninja 400 are an EXCELLENT place to start without being severely lacking in power. It resolves a bit of the "bike I can grow into" problem that beginner bikes always used to have by simply having just enough power to not outgrow immediately... They're still "beginner" bikes, but they're not limited to only being "learner" bikes. And I think more people are willing to buy and ride a Ninja 400 for 2 years before trading it in than a 250 for one summer.
I started on a Ninja 500 (slower than today's 400) and I traded it within a month. Bikes that can't do 100mph probably aren't going to inspire confidence at 80. And a bike that isn't confident at 80 is neither fun nor comforting to ride on American highways.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 Bro, PLEASE. I started out on a Ninja 250, rode it 12k miles, and never even came close to what it was capable of. Guaranteed you can't ride for fucking shit. Had Monster 1200,1100, Mv Agusta Dragster RR. Ninja 250 was more fun than all of them because I could USE IT ALL.
Came here for a like and comment. It’s criminal spite don’t have more subs than yammie. I didn’t even know he was done dirty till like a month ago, I was like “where’s spite?” Anyways, shame on those that didn’t unsub from sucka noob.
That video of spite being canned was the very first yammie video i watched and knew right then and there that that would be my last video of his i would watch. Immediately subscribe to spite's channel and been happier than pig in shit since. Love spites reviews and big rock moto too
I think it's the price of cars that's helping sale motorcycles. That an the fuel economy is the reason for low cc bikes. I might pick on up as a second bike.
All of us in lil'ole 'yurup 😉 are shocked at what u in US is described as small or middle range ! Litre (liter) bikes iz big bikes ! It's good, as you say Spite, "graduating", from 125 to 250 to 500 to 750 n up. When u get to yr big bike you appreciate it more and respect it more !! It's healthy for the industry and its patrons to see this growth in A2 range of bikes 👌👍
I don't even see 500cs and under as 'beginner bikes'. They're moreso for people who want to ride a bike, but feel no need to be a biker dude or biker bruh. They just want something that goes a decent speed, gets great mph and is relatively cheap, so a 400 to 450 cc motor works fine for them. With the economy continuing the shrink, I think 400s and 450s are the sweet spot. They have enough power for people who aren't trying to 'go fast' on a bike and cheap enough for them not to have to think too deeply about it. Most people are apprehensive on being on a motorcycle in the first place due to safety concerns, so milder bikes that are cheaper and also get great mph might be more of a viable option to them. Liter bikes, you can't even use most of that potential on the street unless you are trying to put your life and the life of others in danger. If you aren't tracking it, then what's the purpose of buying a heavier bike with less mpg and way too much acceleration for the average rider? I think 400/450 is a sweet spot for someone who wants to just commute or enjoy cruising around, while 660s or even 700s are more for those who want a bit more zip in their riding experience. I think 400 to 700 is the sweet spot that will handle the vast majority of bikers' needs.
Stoked for this bike. I love anything you can use 100% of on the street! My first bike was a ninja 250 and it was my favorite bike of all time, among: MV Agusta Dragster RR Monster 1200 Monster 1100 What did all of the above have in common? I COULDN'T USE EVEN A FRACTION OF THEM ON THE STREET.
The pricing for Triumph Speed 400 is $3295 in India and is quite cheaper than duke 390 which is $4203 ex showroom, The Harley X440 is also quite affordable at $3242 here, Manufacturing bikes in India or China does make the final pricing lower than other countries, which is quite good for a growing 400cc market. Since Aprillia RS457 will also be manufactured in India it is expected to cost $5500 to $6000 (Might get it at $4500 here as well who knows the Trimph price was a shocker for everyone here) here in India, I am pretty sure it will cost more in US/UK since it will be imported just how KTM sells a bit expensive there.
"RS660 is already so relaxed you don't need a more relaxed position". Disagree. Having sat on both the RS660 and Tuono 660 recently at my dealer, I cannot see my back getting along on the RS, despite how "relaxed" it is for a sport bike. The Tuono though, lovely. I just do not like having any kind of forward lean on my bikes these days at all. Shame as I am absolutely in love with this year's colour scheme RS660. It's all moot though as I would take the Tuareg 660 over both of those as I do not like having my legs cramped up either. I'm too young to be an ADV dad!!!! Alas, these days I insist on my bikes being completely upright and having a neutral leg position (forward legs a la cruiser style are no go for me either). The 21/18 tire set up kind of sucks for me as I would use it strictly as a comfy street sports tourer, but that's a compromise I'm willing to make in order to not be all cramped up.
This is good. Lots of pressure on Kawasaki. Now they can't just sit on their offerings. I also prefer the tuono to the RS. I prefer the more upright riding position.
Off topic, but you have no idea how many combination locks I've had over the years where the combination was engine sizes. 421 pontiac, amc 401 ect. Was the only way i could remember the combo
I think it's more that we haven't seen generational turnover yet in small bikes like we have in big or midsize bikes, aside from race toys like the zx4rr. An R3 or Ninja 400 hasn't changed much in almost ten years. We're due. Dualsports are next, I think.
I'd flirt with an RS457 for a bit, maybe take her out to dinner, maybe not call her back... It was great to run into you at MotoAmerica at COTA on the skywalk. I appreciate you taking the time to take a pic. Hopefully, Josh Herrin's bike won't blow up on Sunday!
The Harley brand has a tougher challenge tbh. Brands like Aprilia, Cagiva and Kawa rely on very high performance in a small package. Those of us that had a Mito, or an RS 125 back in the day can attest that, although unreliable, those bikes were a blast and could easily troll waaay bigger bikes on the twisties. Today the CF Moto RS 300, the 450 and the Kawa 400 have filled the void but without the unreliability. What will Harley sell if “performance” isn’t the factor, except fo the badge? The sportster is already an entry level motorbike if we factor in horse power output. Until recently it was touted as an entry level and girl’s bike and for older people like me it was the first proper road bike we managed to put our hands on. Their real problem is that nowadays even that family of models cost an arm and a leg and are generally out of reach for a beginner.
The difference between RS660 and Tuono660 is so huge!!! I switched from RS660 to Tuono660. So much more driving comfort and fun. Indescribable. It's a matter of mind, everyone wants a sports bike but Tuono rides much better and makes more sense. Tuono660Factory so much fun on track and road. On the best bikes. ❤❤😍😍 Hope for Tuono 457
In regards to Harley because it'd be a GURLZ bike!!! Hate when Harley bros crap on the 883 when it's really their only quasi-beginner friendly bike and it's actually a pretty decent bike for what it is.
What you didn’t mention is Harley Davidson’s (currently India only) 440s received a pre-booking of 25000 units in less than 2 months.. This baby Aprilia is also Made in India.. So, India (largest 2 wheeler manufacturer and market in the world) is becoming a powerhouse in sub-500 CC motorcycle manufacturing (KTM, Triumph, BMW, Harley..)
Like you I’d love to see Harley expand. They know how to build all types of motorcycle but continue to build mostly cruisers which a lot of us will NEVER buy. I darn near bought a Pan America instead of my GS. It was the first time ever that I considered buying a Harley. Nothing else they make is interesting to me. So continue to bang on them till they get the message. :-) Yes the sub 500cc market is over saturated. I’m not sure why that is, in the US anyway. I understand other places with tiered licensing but a lot of this country is wide open and huge. Nothing worse than ringing out a sub 500cc bikes neck on our freeway system. There is nothing fun about that.
My favorite bike was the Aprilia RSV Mille. Sadly I was a child back then and definitely look forward to this bike. Hopefully it’s competitive against the ninja.
If Harley wants to be a luxury brand then they shouldn't sell Chinese for their beginner bike. They should cut the nighter engine down four hundred CCs use lighter lower internals so it's revy and then sell it with more budget friendly factory tires, wheels, suspension, rear brake, and software. They can make better stuff available as options.
I hope it’s untuned a lot from factory,like the zx4rr ,so it’s a good beginner bike but then like in a year you can flash it and make 80hp 😅 a bike you can grow in to
My son is 17. He started on a klx250s at 16. He loves it but wants more. We restored a buell xb12r firebolt and he rides it with me but I think it's too much bike for him to daily. Without being bored in a year what is a good recommendation for a daily bike that's fun and comfortable. I'm afraid a ninja 400 will not be enough and I'm just wasting money.
I'd expect them to just call it the RS460, not uncommon for any manufacturer to round up a little. Can't wait to see the CBR500R vs Aprilia RS457 video. Seems like the closest 2 bikes (maybe the Ninja 400 as well)
I think this is more of a 'high performance' low displacement bike like the ZX-4RR. It'll obviously be expensive too with all the tech and being an Aprilia. I wouldn't be surprised if it cost more than the CBR650R tbh. CBR500R is a bit of a heavy turd and the Ninja 400 is just kind of slow. I wish Honda would bring something out to compete with these bikes.
As the owner of 2 older Harleys, I think you are just telling the truth, so keep it up. If Harley isn't going to produce an entry-level model, they should allow Harley dealers to add certain other franchises. I always thought Enfield would be a good match. Additional cash flow and a chance to build a relationship that could end up with trade ups to Harleys. Plus, customers that are looking at bikes that they don't have to sell a kidney to own probably have more realistic expectations about ownership. But it seems Harley is doubling down on image, so expect fewer and fewer dealerships out there and Harley sticking with the ones that have the best financial statements. It's disappointing to see them ignore the customers that kept them in business before they were a "luxury" brand.
I was someone who mentioned HD wishing to only be a premium/ up market brand, i do so most of the time. The issue is i agree and have been in agreement with what you have stated sense 2002. HD needs a 450 dual sport or something to geet first time bike buyer's into the HD dealerships.
Right. Even of it's a premium 450 that costs as much or more than the competition's 650-800, you still need it in the lineup. You won't sell many, but they'll survive for much longer in the used market keeping service departments working and people visiting showrooms.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 not exactly what I was thinking. What I was thinking was the AMF years of HD they had a 250 2stroke induro. So more or less I was meaning something like a 180-275cc single cyl dual sport that would sell for roughly $5,500 - 6,800. Still expensive for the over all market but would be something that HD won't have to worry about stealing their sales like the games HD was doing with Eric and his bikes in the mid '90s early '00s.
It's a selling line to tell a beginner of all the riding modes a sub 500cc offer... but who keeps their beginner bike with sub 500cc? 8 months to a year and facebook market is flooded with sub 500cc bikes. Keep on HD... I wanted a new HD but couldn't pull the trigger bc of the price.
I like slower bikes but im getting tired of the low seat height thing, being a taller rider , i just basically have to get a big bike or i dont fit at all, want a smaller bike to actually get better and take to the track? ye nope 600cc will be the smallest i fit basically, I'd love a full size begginer bike, weirdly the best one i have found is the Very hated CBR/CB500.
i just like the fact all these companies now coming out with these smaller fun cc bikes. Personally i dig the name its literally the cc of the bike.. its different... how many of us made fun of bikes or car manufactures names not being what they are???? Prob damn near every one of us. 6.3 when its a 6.2... has a T in the name but its a supercharger... has exhaust in the rear bumper oh wait nope its fake lol
@@spitescorner I still hear about a lot of reliability issues compared to other bikes but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just naysayers of the old days. I wish I had the money to afford more than one bike lol or I probably would’ve gotten the 660 by now
NOPE ...... buy the 660, keep it in "commute" and dial the nannies all the way up! Then when you get some riding experience under your belt slowly drop the safety features until you can leave it in individual with everything shut off, except ABS 😂😂😂
Aprilia has only been releasing great bikes these past few years. Harley and Indian need to release a good small bike or they're going to continue to lose a large chunk of the US market to European manufacturers (especially since Triumph, Ducati, and even Royal Enfield can compete with them aesthetically.) A 500-800cc FTR seems like an obvious choice. Idk what Harley would make, maybe a middle weight Pan-American (name it after a shorter distance US ride.) Or maybe a Bronx.
One less syllable. Four, Five, Se-ven versus Four, Fif-ty, se-ven. Six Sixty is 3 versus 4 for six six zero. Usually companies choose the one with fewer syllables. That's why calling it a 440 would be better even if it's a bigger motor.
I reckon Aprilia will do a Tuono 457. They'll want to go up against the likes of the Z400, MT-03, CB500 and particularly the renewed Duke 390. Which can only be a good thing, because alongside the Duke, and CF Moto coming to the party with the 450 NK, it should wake up Kawasaki and Yamaha and make them go back to the drawing board on their small naked bikes, which are looking archaic by comparison. But what's really great is that there's healthy competition in the smaller displacement market, which is giving both new riders looking for their first 'big' bike, and seasoned riders looking for a little fun bike, a lot of well-made and feature-packed options for not a lot of cash. That's got to be a good thing, surely?
@@pancake5830 strange, I'm from Norway and here we can start riding at 15 years old with a L on the back along with other riders (connected with intercom) and at 16 you can get your A1 licence and drive on your own with a 125cc. But you can ride a A2 at 16 if you ride with a L and communication with other experienced riders, and already got the A1 licence.
Maybe the reason people are buying smaller bikes is why buy a bike that goes 160mph. You can't even do that TX. I can break the speed limit on a 300cc bike and get 60+ mph. win, win.
Do you think that the beginner bike market is getting too full? Would you pick one of these up as a second bike or as your first?
the market segment is expanding due to declining economic factors. Think less "beginner bike" and more "cheap small displacement segment". Market saturation in this segment would send a negative signal to the industry and could be catastrophic. Good US is a small market internationally for motorcycles. Nah I wouldn't pick it up. Stock DRZsm great first bike, mod it instead of buying a second bike. Jump straight to third bike after
Spite. Here in vegas there's a few months wait for the MSF course at the colleges. And even the 450 dollar class at harley is filling up fast. There's thousands of new riders yearly in just this one city. USA wide its gotta be insane.
i am seriously thinking about buying a Grom for a second bike😂just to hoon around on, and go places i would not take my Hornet🥰
Yes this & I like The CF Moto 300 SS & Kawasaki 500 R
I think this is great given the rising cost of everything. Better cheaper bikes ftw!
If you see a 500, do you say "that's a five zero zero"? Try saying four fifty seven. It actually sounds alright and rolls off the tongue just fine. Four five seven sounds like a child trying to read for the first time. Like five zero zero. Yes, little buddy. That's three numbers. Now put them together to make a big one and you're on the right track ;)
Yeah pretty stupid of him. Like calling a Ninja 1000 ( one thousand) a "Ninja one zero zero zero". I guess it's yet another American thing
I was actually thinking the same thing and was about to leave a comment, but then I saw you already did.
Or call it 3 to 5? Almost 5? Go home time?
four fifty seven doesn't really roll off the tongue either... i don't think it makes much difference. call it a 450 and be done with it.
@@atem8101😂😂 Right
I don't think we will see a Tuono 457 either, however I DO think we will see a Toureg 457. ADV segment is the biggest thing right now and the amount of proper beginner ADVs is pretty limited, so Aprilia could really capitalize on that.
Been thinking of a new lightweight sportbike for next year as a toy, and as someone who loves Apes, Im very interested in this thing.
Also, as an aside. Spoke with owner of a dealer with was there at Misano for the unveil. Apparently he was told by Aprilia to expect these in North America in March/April (tentative of course) and while he wasnt able to get exact pricing out of them, they were sure to say that it was "very competitive" with the existing A2 sportbike rivals. This thing is being manufactured in India, similar to the KTM after all.
if a tuareg 457 is sub 400 lbs it'd be amazing.
The CEO confirmed that Tuono and Tuareg are coming.
Agreed on the cruise control. It irks me to no end that such a feature is gated off to the high end bikes.
If a bike has throttle by wire, it should have cruise control. No exceptions.
I guess I could’ve asked about your thoughts on this bike instead of being awkward when I introduced myself at COTA! 😂
Keep up the good work, brother!
Like your gardening gloves!
He wants so bad to be baby Shadetree Surgeon.
I feel like you certainly neglected to mention the CF moto 450 in this conversation. I see it doing great things, and for a solid price.
Keep pounding Harley. you may be the one voice that saves the company.
Regarding the end of your video, about whether or not new riders care about all the tech. I can't speak from an insider perspective on the motorcycle industry as someone who is just a regular consumer there, but I work corporate level in the auto industry, and have worked for multiple brands. Something I've seen time and time again is that the #1 deciding factor for people buying their first NEW car is tech and features. More price conscious buyers tend to end up buying used, whereas we see people buying their first new car as making something that (to them) feels more aspirational and as such they want the tech and toys. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happens in the motorcycle market. I agree traction control and rider modes are probably superfluous at this point, even to the target buyer, however things like the nice big TFT and quickshifter are totally things that I think probably are a big deal to first time buyers.
457 (four fifty seven) sounds like the iconic three fifty seven, rolls of the tongue very well...😅😅😅
the number 1 thing on my list when I was searching for a beginner bike was price. I dont want to drop a ton of cash on something I might end up not doing in a year...or something that might get dropped... and I dont want a ton of tech or at least complicated parts because maintenance should be simple on a beginner bike and simplicity nearly always equals reliability
I like the TFT dont get me wrong but a regular speed/tac dial would be fine.
I SO AGREE about cruise control. I waaaaant this. although I dont know if I feel comfortable adding it to a beginner bike with someone just getting the hang of riding...I could see it ending badly in some cases but also just...beginners should be learning how to modulate their speed and getting a feel for how fast they are traveling as well..I dont know if giving them a crutch with CC is a good idea for someone who is learning. I guess thats just mixed feelings
I forgive you for beating up on HD. :D
It depends where you live and how you ride i own an Rs660 and cruise control once to try it! But i never do highway so...
@@wanderer7779I use CC on my 660 constantly. I ride highway for 20 mins from my house to the twisties, plus any lower speed zones I just stick it on and sit up and relax for a minute
In regard to the sub-500cc segment growing so much, I feel like it has a lot to do with the fact that entry-level bikes have increased in size over the years. For "full sized" bikes, 250s are basically laughable. They're great to learn on, but they're pitifully slow on the open American road. Which I think led a lot of people to just bite the bullet and start on 600cc bikes.
But these days, bikes like the Ninja 400 are an EXCELLENT place to start without being severely lacking in power. It resolves a bit of the "bike I can grow into" problem that beginner bikes always used to have by simply having just enough power to not outgrow immediately... They're still "beginner" bikes, but they're not limited to only being "learner" bikes. And I think more people are willing to buy and ride a Ninja 400 for 2 years before trading it in than a 250 for one summer.
I started on a Ninja 500 (slower than today's 400) and I traded it within a month. Bikes that can't do 100mph probably aren't going to inspire confidence at 80. And a bike that isn't confident at 80 is neither fun nor comforting to ride on American highways.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 Bro, PLEASE. I started out on a Ninja 250, rode it 12k miles, and never even came close to what it was capable of. Guaranteed you can't ride for fucking shit. Had Monster 1200,1100, Mv Agusta Dragster RR. Ninja 250 was more fun than all of them because I could USE IT ALL.
@@onlyfoolriding8223 Lol, ok dude. Stay mad.
Came here for a like and comment. It’s criminal spite don’t have more subs than yammie. I didn’t even know he was done dirty till like a month ago, I was like “where’s spite?” Anyways, shame on those that didn’t unsub from sucka noob.
That video of spite being canned was the very first yammie video i watched and knew right then and there that that would be my last video of his i would watch. Immediately subscribe to spite's channel and been happier than pig in shit since. Love spites reviews and big rock moto too
😂😂😂😂😂😂
I sure hope there's a Tuono, else I'll just have to put a handle bar on it myself
I think it's the price of cars that's helping sale motorcycles. That an the fuel economy is the reason for low cc bikes. I might pick on up as a second bike.
All of us in lil'ole 'yurup 😉 are shocked at what u in US is described as small or middle range ! Litre (liter) bikes iz big bikes ! It's good, as you say Spite, "graduating", from 125 to 250 to 500 to 750 n up. When u get to yr big bike you appreciate it more and respect it more !! It's healthy for the industry and its patrons to see this growth in A2 range of bikes 👌👍
It's getting full yeah. but new riders or long time riders even who want something smaller should have options still.
Totally agree. It's nice to see categories other than middleweight nakeds and liter bikes getting love
It's gonna be a beauty. But I'm more excited about the Inline 4 500cc from cfmoto and the 675 from cfmoto coming soon!!!!
Another comprehensive rant by Van Driessen. Keep up the good work. Excellent channel.
I would buy an aprillia in a heartbeat if it sold for $5700. I was looking at the CFMOTO but Aprillias styling is awesome imo.
It’s def going to be 6799
I expect around $6500, Aprilia said they are going to be very competitive in price.
@@drewoke5046 I'm from the future and you were exactly correct lol
I don't even see 500cs and under as 'beginner bikes'. They're moreso for people who want to ride a bike, but feel no need to be a biker dude or biker bruh. They just want something that goes a decent speed, gets great mph and is relatively cheap, so a 400 to 450 cc motor works fine for them. With the economy continuing the shrink, I think 400s and 450s are the sweet spot. They have enough power for people who aren't trying to 'go fast' on a bike and cheap enough for them not to have to think too deeply about it. Most people are apprehensive on being on a motorcycle in the first place due to safety concerns, so milder bikes that are cheaper and also get great mph might be more of a viable option to them.
Liter bikes, you can't even use most of that potential on the street unless you are trying to put your life and the life of others in danger. If you aren't tracking it, then what's the purpose of buying a heavier bike with less mpg and way too much acceleration for the average rider? I think 400/450 is a sweet spot for someone who wants to just commute or enjoy cruising around, while 660s or even 700s are more for those who want a bit more zip in their riding experience. I think 400 to 700 is the sweet spot that will handle the vast majority of bikers' needs.
Stoked for this bike. I love anything you can use 100% of on the street! My first bike was a ninja 250 and it was my favorite bike of all time, among:
MV Agusta Dragster RR
Monster 1200
Monster 1100
What did all of the above have in common? I COULDN'T USE EVEN A FRACTION OF THEM ON THE STREET.
The pricing for Triumph Speed 400 is $3295 in India and is quite cheaper than duke 390 which is $4203 ex showroom, The Harley X440 is also quite affordable at $3242 here, Manufacturing bikes in India or China does make the final pricing lower than other countries, which is quite good for a growing 400cc market. Since Aprillia RS457 will also be manufactured in India it is expected to cost $5500 to $6000 (Might get it at $4500 here as well who knows the Trimph price was a shocker for everyone here) here in India, I am pretty sure it will cost more in US/UK since it will be imported just how KTM sells a bit expensive there.
"RS660 is already so relaxed you don't need a more relaxed position". Disagree. Having sat on both the RS660 and Tuono 660 recently at my dealer, I cannot see my back getting along on the RS, despite how "relaxed" it is for a sport bike. The Tuono though, lovely. I just do not like having any kind of forward lean on my bikes these days at all. Shame as I am absolutely in love with this year's colour scheme RS660.
It's all moot though as I would take the Tuareg 660 over both of those as I do not like having my legs cramped up either. I'm too young to be an ADV dad!!!! Alas, these days I insist on my bikes being completely upright and having a neutral leg position (forward legs a la cruiser style are no go for me either). The 21/18 tire set up kind of sucks for me as I would use it strictly as a comfy street sports tourer, but that's a compromise I'm willing to make in order to not be all cramped up.
This is good. Lots of pressure on Kawasaki. Now they can't just sit on their offerings. I also prefer the tuono to the RS. I prefer the more upright riding position.
You can tell Harley is premium when you look at the headlight of my 2022 Low Rider S. It's still not LED.
Four Fifty-Seven. Geeze-us, just say it right and it sounds fantastic!
Yeah, couldn't agree more about the 457. I mean look at the 426 hemi or the 427 ford or the 427 rat motor...Sarcasm alert.
Off topic, but you have no idea how many combination locks I've had over the years where the combination was engine sizes. 421 pontiac, amc 401 ect. Was the only way i could remember the combo
It sounds way cooler if you say 457 the same way you say 357 magnum
great bike name. call them like they are
I think it's more that we haven't seen generational turnover yet in small bikes like we have in big or midsize bikes, aside from race toys like the zx4rr. An R3 or Ninja 400 hasn't changed much in almost ten years. We're due. Dualsports are next, I think.
I'd flirt with an RS457 for a bit, maybe take her out to dinner, maybe not call her back...
It was great to run into you at MotoAmerica at COTA on the skywalk. I appreciate you taking the time to take a pic. Hopefully, Josh Herrin's bike won't blow up on Sunday!
The Harley brand has a tougher challenge tbh.
Brands like Aprilia, Cagiva and Kawa rely on very high performance in a small package. Those of us that had a Mito, or an RS 125 back in the day can attest that, although unreliable, those bikes were a blast and could easily troll waaay bigger bikes on the twisties.
Today the CF Moto RS 300, the 450 and the Kawa 400 have filled the void but without the unreliability.
What will Harley sell if “performance” isn’t the factor, except fo the badge?
The sportster is already an entry level motorbike if we factor in horse power output. Until recently it was touted as an entry level and girl’s bike and for older people like me it was the first proper road bike we managed to put our hands on. Their real problem is that nowadays even that family of models cost an arm and a leg and are generally out of reach for a beginner.
Maintenance costs is the evil hidden doom for these sorts of bikes.
It's a parallel twin. It's not a desmo valve train. It's no different than getting your valves serviced on a ninja 400 or R7
I guess the motor platform is similar to the 660.
The Aprilia RS 457 definitely gonna be my second bike
The difference between RS660 and Tuono660 is so huge!!!
I switched from RS660 to Tuono660.
So much more driving comfort and fun. Indescribable.
It's a matter of mind, everyone wants a sports bike but Tuono rides much better and makes more sense. Tuono660Factory so much fun on track and road.
On the best bikes. ❤❤😍😍
Hope for Tuono 457
If it's not a rebadge I am fine. As long as it's a new bike and not an old bike with different paint.
In regards to Harley because it'd be a GURLZ bike!!!
Hate when Harley bros crap on the 883 when it's really their only quasi-beginner friendly bike and it's actually a pretty decent bike for what it is.
What you didn’t mention is
Harley Davidson’s (currently India only) 440s received a pre-booking of 25000 units in less than 2 months..
This baby Aprilia is also Made in India..
So, India (largest 2 wheeler manufacturer and market in the world) is becoming a powerhouse in sub-500 CC motorcycle manufacturing (KTM, Triumph, BMW, Harley..)
Like you I’d love to see Harley expand. They know how to build all types of motorcycle but continue to build mostly cruisers which a lot of us will NEVER buy. I darn near bought a Pan America instead of my GS. It was the first time ever that I considered buying a Harley. Nothing else they make is interesting to me. So continue to bang on them till they get the message. :-)
Yes the sub 500cc market is over saturated. I’m not sure why that is, in the US anyway. I understand other places with tiered licensing but a lot of this country is wide open and huge. Nothing worse than ringing out a sub 500cc bikes neck on our freeway system. There is nothing fun about that.
Name might grow on us, like the 636
My favorite bike was the Aprilia RSV Mille. Sadly I was a child back then and definitely look forward to this bike. Hopefully it’s competitive against the ninja.
gday failing to stop at a stop sign lol sorry couldnt resist
California tap. 😉
Kinda hard to compete with the ZX4R, but I like the attempt. Shame that Aprillia dealers basically don’t exist.
Bet this bike ends up being on its 3rd generation bodystyle and the ninja 400 will still look like it has the last 10 years :)
You ran the stop sign😮
I'd rather have an Aprilia, but next year's single side swing arm update for the cfmoto450 is looking beautiful. Looking forward to the v4 from cf
Yeah but then you’re stuck with a cfmoto
If Harley wants to be a luxury brand then they shouldn't sell Chinese for their beginner bike.
They should cut the nighter engine down four hundred CCs use lighter lower internals so it's revy and then sell it with more budget friendly factory tires, wheels, suspension, rear brake, and software. They can make better stuff available as options.
My sv650 has almost no tech and I love it that way
Aprilia is trying to bite a bit of that Ferrari nomenclature aesthetic.
It's working
With 400s gradually turning into 500s, are they going to need to reintroduce 250s?
Looks pretty nice!
I hope it’s untuned a lot from factory,like the zx4rr ,so it’s a good beginner bike but then like in a year you can flash it and make 80hp 😅 a bike you can grow in to
They aren't the same class, a 4rr should be compared to other 10k bikes. This thing is an overpriced ninja 400.
4-57 🤦🏽♂️ RS 457 to be exact 😂
Rolls right of the tung if you say it right.. 😉
My son is 17. He started on a klx250s at 16. He loves it but wants more. We restored a buell xb12r firebolt and he rides it with me but I think it's too much bike for him to daily. Without being bored in a year what is a good recommendation for a daily bike that's fun and comfortable. I'm afraid a ninja 400 will not be enough and I'm just wasting money.
I'd expect them to just call it the RS460, not uncommon for any manufacturer to round up a little.
Can't wait to see the CBR500R vs Aprilia RS457 video. Seems like the closest 2 bikes (maybe the Ninja 400 as well)
I think this is more of a 'high performance' low displacement bike like the ZX-4RR. It'll obviously be expensive too with all the tech and being an Aprilia. I wouldn't be surprised if it cost more than the CBR650R tbh.
CBR500R is a bit of a heavy turd and the Ninja 400 is just kind of slow. I wish Honda would bring something out to compete with these bikes.
Yooo Spite hope you’re doing well mate! I just saw this beauty in MotoGP Bharat. It looks super sexy and I wanna buy it 😊
As the owner of 2 older Harleys, I think you are just telling the truth, so keep it up. If Harley isn't going to produce an entry-level model, they should allow Harley dealers to add certain other franchises. I always thought Enfield would be a good match. Additional cash flow and a chance to build a relationship that could end up with trade ups to Harleys. Plus, customers that are looking at bikes that they don't have to sell a kidney to own probably have more realistic expectations about ownership. But it seems Harley is doubling down on image, so expect fewer and fewer dealerships out there and Harley sticking with the ones that have the best financial statements. It's disappointing to see them ignore the customers that kept them in business before they were a "luxury" brand.
Harley has a 440 in india don't know if they will export. I much prefer doing business with India over China.
I was someone who mentioned HD wishing to only be a premium/ up market brand, i do so most of the time.
The issue is i agree and have been in agreement with what you have stated sense 2002. HD needs a 450 dual sport or something to geet first time bike buyer's into the HD dealerships.
Right. Even of it's a premium 450 that costs as much or more than the competition's 650-800, you still need it in the lineup. You won't sell many, but they'll survive for much longer in the used market keeping service departments working and people visiting showrooms.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 not exactly what I was thinking. What I was thinking was the AMF years of HD they had a 250 2stroke induro. So more or less I was meaning something like a 180-275cc single cyl dual sport that would sell for roughly $5,500 - 6,800. Still expensive for the over all market but would be something that HD won't have to worry about stealing their sales like the games HD was doing with Eric and his bikes in the mid '90s early '00s.
@@OVshyguy That makes sense too. They already make a 750cc flat track race bike, but they won’t put lights and a tag on it.
It's a selling line to tell a beginner of all the riding modes a sub 500cc offer... but who keeps their beginner bike with sub 500cc? 8 months to a year and facebook market is flooded with sub 500cc bikes. Keep on HD... I wanted a new HD but couldn't pull the trigger bc of the price.
I like slower bikes but im getting tired of the low seat height thing, being a taller rider , i just basically have to get a big bike or i dont fit at all, want a smaller bike to actually get better and take to the track? ye nope 600cc will be the smallest i fit basically, I'd love a full size begginer bike, weirdly the best one i have found is the Very hated CBR/CB500.
Confused by hearing about a TFT dash while looking at analog gages.
i just like the fact all these companies now coming out with these smaller fun cc bikes. Personally i dig the name its literally the cc of the bike.. its different... how many of us made fun of bikes or car manufactures names not being what they are???? Prob damn near every one of us. 6.3 when its a 6.2... has a T in the name but its a supercharger... has exhaust in the rear bumper oh wait nope its fake lol
I want a tuono v4!!!!
15:02 if CFMOTO 450CLC come to US, Harley Davidson should be scare, cfmoto already make small cc bobber style motorcycle
Next time I’ll try chocolate with my cawfee
FAST : F457 it s a great name
beginners first experience with heavy shop time?
Harley davidson x440
if you cant make electric bike you just reduce CC and be compliant for some more years
I think the name sounds fine if you say it four fifty seven instead of 4-5-7
They already have a 660, why not call it the 460??
Looks like it's going for Ninja 400 as it's chief competition.
I don’t think an Aprilia should be a beginner bike unless people are comfortable having to deal with warranties and repair costs.
Maybe if they were buying an Aprilia 15 years ago. I've got thousands of miles under my belt on modern Aprilias with no issues
@@spitescorner I still hear about a lot of reliability issues compared to other bikes but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just naysayers of the old days. I wish I had the money to afford more than one bike lol or I probably would’ve gotten the 660 by now
NOPE ...... buy the 660, keep it in "commute" and dial the nannies all the way up! Then when you get some riding experience under your belt slowly drop the safety features until you can leave it in individual with everything shut off, except ABS 😂😂😂
“Four Fifty-Seven”
Small is moar fun lol
IMO Spite being too nice on Harley D.
What gloves are those?
Odin Manufacturing Heavy Hitters Brapstar edition.
Manufacturers need to get new riders in the "sport" as few will drop $15-$30 K on a bike.
19,000 bikes means gotta get more people on bikes. Less cars and slow down enjoy life.
Aprilia has only been releasing great bikes these past few years. Harley and Indian need to release a good small bike or they're going to continue to lose a large chunk of the US market to European manufacturers (especially since Triumph, Ducati, and even Royal Enfield can compete with them aesthetically.) A 500-800cc FTR seems like an obvious choice. Idk what Harley would make, maybe a middle weight Pan-American (name it after a shorter distance US ride.) Or maybe a Bronx.
Why would you say four five seven, and not four fifty seven? The 660 isn't called a six six zero.
One less syllable. Four, Five, Se-ven versus Four, Fif-ty, se-ven. Six Sixty is 3 versus 4 for six six zero. Usually companies choose the one with fewer syllables. That's why calling it a 440 would be better even if it's a bigger motor.
I understand the logic, maybe we can compromise and call it fo fiddy.
I’d rather they just call it the 460 to tie it into the rs660 family.
It doesn’t matter. Everyone needs an MT09 for their first bike 😂
Lol 357 rolls off the tongue
I reckon Aprilia will do a Tuono 457. They'll want to go up against the likes of the Z400, MT-03, CB500 and particularly the renewed Duke 390.
Which can only be a good thing, because alongside the Duke, and CF Moto coming to the party with the 450 NK, it should wake up Kawasaki and Yamaha and make them go back to the drawing board on their small naked bikes, which are looking archaic by comparison.
But what's really great is that there's healthy competition in the smaller displacement market, which is giving both new riders looking for their first 'big' bike, and seasoned riders looking for a little fun bike, a lot of well-made and feature-packed options for not a lot of cash.
That's got to be a good thing, surely?
Right now where yamaha honda and Suzuki 450cc
pronounce it "Four Fifty Seven"....not Four Five Seven, thats your problem lmao
how is this a beginner bike??? you would need to have been riding for 2 years on a1 bikes to get the a2 license to get this thing bruh
He's talking about people living here in the the States.
Can you start riding motorcycles at 15-16 in the states also?
@@kokilimonke we cant even do that over here (denmark), our licenses are at 18,20, and 22 (24 if you havent had a2 yet) 😭😭
@@pancake5830 strange, I'm from Norway and here we can start riding at 15 years old with a L on the back along with other riders (connected with intercom) and at 16 you can get your A1 licence and drive on your own with a 125cc. But you can ride a A2 at 16 if you ride with a L and communication with other experienced riders, and already got the A1 licence.
@@kokilimonke not in denmark :((
Blaaaast harley lol
By a cfmoto 450ss it’s a lot better than this overpriced junk
Maybe the reason people are buying smaller bikes is why buy a bike that goes 160mph. You can't even do that TX. I can break the speed limit on a 300cc bike and get 60+ mph. win, win.
For the algorithm