Saw's Unanswered Questions | Ft. CZsWorld
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ค. 2023
- Saw 3D, Jigsaw and Spiral: from the book of Saw left us with multiple questions. Join Zac from CZsWorld and I as we take a look at them. Questions such as; what is Mark Hoffman's fate, where is Lawrence Gordon, what happened to Logan Nelson and just who was under those pig masks at the end of Saw 3D.
#saw #sawx #jigsaw #czsworld
Saw deep dive part 1:
• Game Over: Saw | Deep ...
Saw deep dive part 2:
• Game Over: Saw | A Dee...
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This discussion got me more excited for Saw 11 than Saw X 😏
Lol, I know. I really want some of our ideas to become a reality.
Given that Saw X takes place between Saw 1 and Saw 2 , the game in Mexico City would likely had tooken place between early to mid 2005
@YakuzaSeriesGenerationOfficialHe did.
I am so down for a ultimate jigsaw battle royal (Logan vs Gordon vs Schenk) Let the games begin😈 who is truly John’s successor?
@YakuzaSeriesGenerationOfficial he died from blood loss I think in saw 5 you see a portrait of dead cops it had eric Riggs and kerry
I like how even when he's in a video call, CZsWorld is still standing in that weird office place
CZsWorld spawn point
Honestly, I'd love to see a Saw movie, where all the copycats (who are still alive) are being taken by Gordon and put in the trials themselves. Like "This is how it's supposed to go!" or something like that
That would be sick, but problem is, I don't think Dr Gordon cares. Dr Gordon wasn't interested in continuing jigsaws legacy,. He ain't a Disciple. He just helped John whenever John gave him a task.
I doubt he has any interest in current events since John is no longer around. I don't think Dr Gordon is so loyal that he'd protect John's legacy. Once he completed John's final request that was it.
@@momin351i honestly think he released you do what the fuck he says and you live. after that he dipped out.
@kirby8252
I don't think Dr Gordon was under any burden or threat from John after he survived.
John isn't the type to blackmail people to stay since he didn't do so with logan, John even went out of his way to keep Dr Gordon a complete secret from Amanda and Hoffman same with logan.
I think Gordon genuinely felt and believed that John changed him for the better, the same way logan believed that Jigsaw helped him put the pieces of his life back together again.
Again yes it's silly, but that's how the minds of psychopaths work. I think Gordon genuinely believed John helped him so he decided to help John whenever he asked. However after John died, Gordon didn't care enough to continue because he only views John as a friend who helped him see the right way, Amanda on the other hand saw John as a godfigure and believed she could carry on his teachings, John groomed Amanda and Gordon in different ways, one was simply a friend who helps, the other a follower who was to continue and be the next Jigsaw.
As for Hoffman, I think John blackmailed him because Hoffman showed talent in creating traps. He was a police officer so he'd be able to give John info on alot of criminals for tests something which logan, Amanda and Hoffman couldn't do.
I don't think John wanted anyone to continue his legacy besides Amanda. Hoffman just went off the rails and gordon needed to take care of it.
@@momin351 i think your right, but he did have threats to people from beyond the grave, i mean he asked gordan to avenge his wife and he did. your probably right unless somehow someone else knew he was a apprentice which would be completely bs but it is saw.
@kirby8252
John's threat from beyond the grave were for his saw 5 trap victims, his gane for William Easton, a game for hoffman and a game for bobby who faked being a Jigsaw victim.
Their were no threats made to Dr Gordon cause Gordon was appreciative towards John and they became friends. And John trusted him the most.
The reason john didn't trust hoffman is because hoffman wasn't the one who was going to carry John's legacy, that was Amanda. Hoffman was someone who could help John get victims due to his inside police connections but he was also a loose canon hence why John only blackmailed him and not his other 3 apprentices.
The bobby tests that John gave were rigged by hoffman to make them nearly impossible which is why bobby failed to save any victims.
Jill also rigged the test with hoffman since John had an escape mechanism for the reverse bear trap 2.0 but jill on purpose didn't give hoffman the key to escape but hoffman still survived.
Hoffman also went on a revenge streak and started killing the cops and taking revenge on jill.
John figured that after he was gone hoffman would probably be a loose canon since he was the only one not devoted to John. Logan and John parted ways but logan respected John to keep his identity a secret and John let him leave with no blackmail.
Amanda was devoted to John, she went off the rails but she still looked upto John. Dr Gordon considered John a friend.
Hoffman was only staying cause he was blackmailed and after John was gone, Hoffman just went on a killing spree, so John put a contingency in place to get rid of hoffman if that happened, and he knew he could rely on Gordon, as Gordon was the only apprentice who wasn't emotional like any other apprentice, logan was revenge struck, Amanda was a complete mess and hoffman was a megalomaniac.
But John didn't threaten any of his apprentices, only hoffman because he wasn't really an apprentice. John only put a contingency plan for Amanda because she rigged 2 of her games so he made changes last minute.
In a nutshell
Amanda was suppose to continue but failed. Gordon was just a friend and was loyal but he wasn't forced to stay, both logan and Gordon were essentially Jigsaw's coping mechnism for proof that his tests worked since they both were thankful to John, and they both helped with zero obligations.
John didn't force Gordon to intervene, he simply requested Gordon to do him favours and asked him for one last request. Gordon was not obligated to follow and its not like John could have even done anything at that point, but Gordon honored his request, same way logan honored the request to build the reverse bear trap.
It was always just Amanda and she failed.
I am also curious about the daughter of Jeff & Lynn how she has developed in her life because she lost both her parents through a Saw trap.
I always assumed she had become a potential apprentice as she got older
Probably life long ptsd
@angelux2793 that or the opposite and she goes after jigsaw as an adult (maybe with Matthews son as well?)
@@Dynexsilshe can’t. Kramer died in the same movie she was kidnapped in, Amanda was killed, and halloran would’ve been in the military during these games, so there’s no one for her to go after. Hoffman maybe but he’s been ghost since saw 7
@@Dynexsilthat'd be amazing.
I always thought Dr Gordon was instructed by John to look after the survivors of the traps and keep the legacy alive and thats why he had set up the survivors meetings
I refuse to believe that a chain on his ankle would stop him. Hoffmans ark was so beautiful until saw 3d.
Nothing can stop the Hoffmanator
Same, his escape from the reverse bear trap is my favorite scene in the series
I can’t help but agree. His will to live is stronger than pretty much every other saw character. But I guess we’ll have to see
He’s got to have been found w every 1 dead the property the did all this there’s no Jill no kid to leave these properties to they have to clean up the place resell the place … he’s alive inside that bathroom…,where’s Xavier zed where’s there bodies… he’s got to get out he will. That gurl Eleanor the 1 who has the museum set up… she can be some1 important trying to get more info or watch around….
Me: Never seen a Saw movie
Also Me: Watched ever CZ's video about Saw and now watching yours too
Aw thanks. Hope you like them!
I’m actually watching Saw (the original) right now on Starz, and noticed something I never did before - when Det Sing shoots Kramer and then dies in the shotgun trap, they foreshadow the end, Kramer getting off the floor (in slow motion) and then slamming the steel barn door behind him… not that it changes anything but it shows how smart Wan and Whannel were in writing this script and the details that were never matched in the sequels
SAW THE FIRST MOVIE
AND SAW 3D REALLY JUST ENDED THE SERIES HOW IT WAS SUPPOSE TO END
THE SAME WAY IT BEGAN BUT HOFFMAN A BIG GUY I DOUBT HE COULDNT GET FREE
This is Exactly Why I enjoy rewatching the Saw Series every so often. You pick up on new things and fun details on scenes that add and adapt the the story , intentionally or Unintentionally, This Series is Fun and Great, definitely a guilty pleasure
Love the chemistry between you guys, such a nice chill conversation about a gorey horror series 😂
I’d really like to see Corbett (Jeff and Lynn’s now orphan daughter) and what happened with her. I’d love to see her grow up to be an investigator in the jigsaw case in the current day.
She would be the perfect character to give us a reason to root for the police, a woman who’s entire family was destroyed by Jigsaw. Imagine if she’s the one who picked up Eleanor?
❤
36:36 Actually they do know. Jill tells Internal Affairs about Hoffman, and at the end of Saw 7, it is shown that Hoffman is now a wanted man after killing an entire precinct and Jill (they show a news report telling people to go to the police with any info they have on Hoffman). They at least knew he was involved with John, just maybe not the full extent. The “copycat” that they are referring to in Spiral is probably either Logan or Halloran, it depends on if Logan was actually caught after the events of Jigsaw.
I’m dying laughing because when you talked about what happened to Elanour and we don’t know who is in the car, then you said Bobby Dagen I started laughing because all I could imagine is that if I was in that position and Bobby showed up I would run in the opposite direction because that guy gets everyone killed🤣 he brings bad juju lol
A Saw Wars trilogy would be awesome to have the Gordon hunt down the copycats
I always thought this was the best way to go about things! Set up several copycats and have them go at eachother!
I'm so glad you guys covered all of the questions I've had for so long. What happened to John's body?!
Exactly! Where is it?! lol
Man, I hope that car is Dr Gordon. That would be epic.
Nice another partner Collab! Love you guys ❤
Aw thanks.
My only question would be financial... Like, just follow someone buying tons and tons of scrap metal
10 points on chemistry.... You really play for each other's game...
Dynamics between you two are just really fun
Do you think at any point they'll do a Wes Craven's New Nightmare type 'Saw' movie, where the franchise exists as a movie series, with the main antagonist(s) creating traps inspired by the series, and have a plausible explanation to bring back the actors and actresses from the series?
I don't think they'd make that ... but, it's an interesting idea.
Basically a meta saw movie. Sounds pretty interesting 😃
@@whatthehorror I really feel the only way I could see this franchise continuing without the Spiral spin-off strictly is just to reimagine the original seven films. Maybe as a telltale video game or as a reboot that improves on the best concepts of the original story. I don't wish to get to into detail here and give you a long comment thread, but here it is if you wish to continue reading:
Maybe have a retelling of the original seven films that trim the fat on the story and get rid of all the unesscesery traps/victims.
I know people love the aspect of traps and victims always losing but it feels like the big thing that people hate about this franchise. Even if that makes it secretly brilliant. Jigsaw wants to reform people in these traps yet he loses when they feel the tests or just become a terrible apprentice who still ends up dead.
The worst thing about the saw franchise is that it is complex while also being too complex that it just repeats redundent patterns like John Kramer's origin because the writers knew after James Wan left, Jigsaw still was the core component to the franchise.
Just follow the same story as the original three James Wan scripted films with a different ending to reimagine the later half to get some new ideas like:
Jigsaw does not die, he fakes his death and we don't notice to retell the idea of Jigsaw 2017.
Have Jeff and Lin win there game in Saw 3 but the twist is that Hoffman screws over John Kramer and Amanda in order to get rid of them because they blackmailed him of course for pretending to be Jigsaw to get revenge on his sister's killer. Have it be revealed that they are all his apprentice except Amanda, that works as a grand reveal.
Amanda also survives to be given a stronger character arc, she did not rig any games, only Hoffman, who only rigs ONE trap to make Amanda think he will tell John Kramer it was her fault.
This rigged trap ends up being the Venus Fly trap from Saw 2. Doctor Gordon does not help with any of Jigsaw's plans. He is just trying to help the survivors of his games but I would still keep the grand reveal that he's alive after the devastating murder of Jill Tuck.
Focuse on delving into retelling the origin of John Kramer like the later squeals do with him blackmailing Hoffman in order to make him like Amanda. Maybe even delve deeper into the origins of the puppet Billy, maybe it something Kramer thought of as a child from something he thought of at some carnival that inspired him to become an engineer or toymaker turned engineer when his company and Jill's started to flourish and they were inspired to become entrepenuers that sought innovation in the Healthcare business and hoemowners association.
Make it essentially feel heavily inspired by Breaking Bad and less like the torture porn aesthetic in this half of the story that James Wan took inspiration from with the films of Italian Giallo.
Make a better game of cat and mouse with Peter Strahm and Hoffman as he's putting dangerous people in traps to frame Strahm and make the FBI think he is Kramer's other accomplish.
Then basically keep the rest of Saw 6 relatively the same as the original classic Saw film. Only once again, make it smaller in scale and more plausible where less is more like the original. I know the traps are what define this franchise next to John Kramer, and the iconic score from Charlie Clouser, but it should remain small in scale with a very experimental narrative that does not focus too much on the police investigation side of things where fan favorite characters can survive their traps for stronger character arcs like Adam.
Adam survives as part of the twist of this section in the story as Hoffman survives the bear trap 2.0. Maybe have that main victim who Jigsaw tested from Saw 6 who refused to give him health care actually sacrifice himself to save most of the other core contestants in that game. But the traps remain small in scale and visceral without ever being to silly.
That's why I enjoyed Spiral, because the traps were gnarly from their simplicity. With just enough weirdness to make them uncanny like the reverse bear trap. So I would make the carousel trap the central focus to this remake of the Saw 6 storyline.
I would also make a major change to Jigsaw himself with how he targets his victims, ALL of which are guilty of some sort of serious crime. Which means no Smoking man in that trap against that person who refused John's healthcare.
No one guilty of crimes that are just petty which means Gordon's crime should not be that he simply cheated on his wife, maybe make it that he was related to the experimental treatment center that pretended to cure his diagnosis of cancer. Course his family would be in danger but still.....Jigsaw is just more interesting when he is like Dexter Morgan.
He's a villain for villains instead of a hero.
Then lastly, I would have the events of the Final Chapter 2010 be a classic two parter where Jill dies as she does and Gordon shows up at the end as the cops actually succeed in getting Hoffman so we can have that brilliant new scenario where Gordon and maybe Strahm play a game with Hoffman to try and save the last of his victims while he's in prison.
No callbacks to the bathroom or putting Hoffman in the bathroom....ever. Just have Adam and Gordon play one last game together against this crooked cop who was just trying to get revenge for his sister's murder.
Logan is the one who setup the JigsawRules website in memory of John, as he never got the chance to say goodbye to him. He was also the one who placed the plans, research and outlines of The Cycle Trap onto the website. The Cycle Trap was never found and Logan was the only one who knew of the trap and uploaded it.
Did anyone think that Logan Nelson disrespected John Kramer by digging up his body?
Lionsgate won’t cough up money for a Jigsaw 2 with Logan Nelson as the main focal point. Execs panned the 2017 film months before release despite it being a commercial success. But that commercial success came from audiences knowing Tobin Bell was in the film; however it was panned by fans being a bait and switch film that added nothing to the franchise but more convolution. Fan reception to the film and Logan was overwhelmingly negative. A sequel that is solely Logan-centric (not with Tobin Bell as he is dead) is just asking to be a box office flop, therefore Lionsgate won’t move on a sequel for this. The film has left questions we will never get answers to and that is a writing/producing mistake believing the film was going to span a trilogy. They’re making an interquel between Saw and Saw II in Saw X for a reason, because Jigsaw is shockingly bad.
The Black SUV scene in Spiral was cut from the film. Bousman said in a podcast that Schenk was spying on Boswick and therefore it didn’t add anything significant to the runtime.
They do find out about Hoffman being an accomplice. At the end of Saw 3D when Hoffman is leaking gasoline everywhere in his hideout, we see a news broadcast appealing for the public to call the police if they see Mark Hoffman - who has created “a house of horrors” of Saw traps, and also killed police officers (the building of Bobby Dagen’s trial).
Everyone seemingly misses the glaring plot hole/mistake during the final few seconds of Spiral. Before Schenk escapes in the elevator Zeke points at Schenk inside the elevator. All the SWAT guys would have looked in that direction. Then we see a SWAT team officer go try and apprehend Schenk before the elevator manages to gets away. So that SWAT officer has seen Schenk’s face/identity and can back Zeke up that Schenk is alive and not dead as previously assumed. Overall it was meant to be make Zeke guilty of all the crimes, both choices Schenk gave him (shoot Schenk or save his dad) was ultimately a lose lose.
I doubt Schenk had an accomplice. He had been planning this for over 10 years. He had plenty of time to carry out his master plan and use John Kramers mantra. It is possible that Schenk is the little boy John encounters in Saw X.
The boy John Meets sitting on the bench in the Saw x leaked photos is obviously Jeff & Lynn's son. considering they show Jigsaw drawing the twisty tim trap in the Trailer.
@@MonstrousViLLain nice theory, although why would John be drawing a trap designed for Timothy when he hasn’t even killed the boy yet?
I agree on the Logan part, Jigsaw was terrible, I hope we never see Logan again. I don’t even consider Jigsaw, canon.
@@woregarjackson4930 I am 100% with you not regarding it as canon.
@@Mac_Kymerait is possible John doesn't always make traps specifically for someone, he can make a design for later use
Can’t wait for your next colab, provided you both survive.
Nice😂 such a great closing line
If there's anyone that's capable of knawing off their own foot to survive, it's Hoffman, dude is a total savage, I'm rooting for him!😈
Will be watching all the Saw films before Saw X comes out. This is a gift as i wait. Thank you
I’m loving this whole excitement for Saw X (how well it aged aside) and I do think Lee’s tweet was just another way of saying “Not my Hoffman” sort of thing; either that or he literally named the guy as an after thought and didn’t even remember that they were supposed to be the same guy.
It is exciting to be part of horror isn't when people are all geared up for a movie.
And yeah I think Leigh didn't mean anything by it other than I haven't seen all of the films so I don't know everything in reference to Hoffman.
Great collab video thanks guys. Some interesting theories, will see how they pan out
20:02-20:06 I agree, and my guesses long have been Logan Nelson and Daniel Matthews, as both have the motives for going after Hoffman. Logan would feel the same way about Hoffman killing Jill as he did about Edgar Munsen killing his wife. Daniel by then would know Hoffman was behind his dad’s death and would want revenge.
Yeah as much I would love to hope they make those 2 pig masked guys Daniel Matthews which would make a lot more sense since he'd have a vengeance motive and the other one possibly Adam explaing why the shackle was on his right foot of his supposed dead corpse, instead of his left where it was initially placed this answering the theory of Gordon coming back for him and swapping his body with Detective Tapp's, but yeah despite this all being a possibility It's still for now what the writers in the Saw 3D film commentary said that those 2 pig mask figures helping Dr. Gordon capture Hoffman are Brad & Ryan from the opening Love Triangle scene.
@@thehalloweenheavymetalmusicwar The same audio commentary for Saw 1 claimed Dr. Gordon was dead, and he’s still alive at this point. I would take those words with a small grain of salt. Until a future chapter confirms them, we can’t just assume it’s two random trap victims, and until then I’m under the belief that Logan likely was one of them, the other still to be relieved. As fun as the Adam theory is, it all feels like a stretch, but then again, we said the same about some Gordon theories and all turned out to be at least partially correct. But my guess is it’s Logan and Daniel or… Logan and Eleanor (yes this would be a twist revealing she was more than a mere fangirl).
The guy from Jigsaw was Edgar Munson. You guys were right.
Amanda used the methods, and believed in John Kramer's philosophy. = Disciple
Hoffman used the methods, without the philosophy. = Copycat
Logan used the methods and the philosophy. = Disciple
Schenk used the methods, without the philosophy. = Copycat
And Dr. Gordon, may have come to believe in John's philosophy. But didn't use his methods. Still, he was a willing asset to Jigsaw. = Disciple
Amanda didn't truly believe in Jigsaw's philosophy or methods, that's why she made her traps inescapable and lashed out at John in 3 telling him how his philosophy is bullshit and people don't change
@@acecashman1237I think this was a big indicator of Johns god complex. He couldn’t accept the idea that one of his great triumphs was actually a failure. Amanda was still broken even after being in two games.
Logan didn't use Jigsaw philosophy, neither did Amanda.
Logan created an unwinnable trap for halloran and halloran reminded logan that John always gave people a chance, and logan simply said scream or don't.
Amanda may have started following his philosophy but she started creating unwinnable traps.
Hoffman also started betraying the philosophy, by simply putting Jill in an unwinnable trap because he was after revenge, he also created unwinnable scenarios for the fbi who tried to catch him.
Only true Disciple who followed John's philosophy till the end was Dr Gordon. He followed all of John's instructions that were given to him loyally.
Very good. Always happy to see you and CZ together.
Another collab with CZsWorld nice!!
I'd love to see a Saw sequel in which Logan is setting up a game when he is captured. He comes to and its a Nerve Gas House situation. Logan, William, Zeke, Daniel and one or two other players. Jigsaw (Lawrence) points out both Logan and William and says to them "Did you think nobody was watching? I want to play a game." The twist on this edition of Nerve House however is if they all want to survive, they need to work together. (Ala Saw V)
We find put the reasons for them winding up there
William: Jigsaw fraud
Zeke: Can he co-exist with the man who killed his dad to survive
Logan: Disrespect Jigsaws legacy
Daniel: P.I coming far too close to finding Lawrence.
Ummm, William's dead...
@@acecashman1237 Schenk
Thank you guys. This is awesome!
Hopefully we the audience get too see a playlist of you 2....really love energy from you 2 content Creators.
Yeah they could've been talking about Halloran as the other copycat since Logan framed him in Jigsaw
Daniel , Gordon , Brit from saw v , Tara and Brent abbot from saw 6 , zeke from spiral and Bobby are really the only characters who lived in a saw movie from what I remember lol.
Detective obrien and Mallick too
And the main guy in 6 his sister
The two guys survived the trap in saw 7 fighting over the girl
@@TaylerMurray-sj5ps oh yea I forgot about her lol
@@justinnbucano5443 I try to forget them lol
Great video as always. As a huge wrestling fan, I love the Royal Rumble mention lol 👍
I hope you two have more videos together in the future. Great discussion chemistry here
love you 2 soo much the chemistry between you 2 is awesome
Great job, love you both!
Also for the Jigsaw Rules Website. There was a movie that came out in 2008 called 'Untraceable' that would be a cool concept for the Jigsaw Rules Website
First time here and I automatically subd ... i am obsessed w the SAW movies and u guys have the same ideas and discussions I have about the movie and series 💙great job! Keep it up I'm glad I found u. XoXo 😘
So glad you liked the video! We're both huge fans of Saw as well and it was so fun nerding out over the films. Thanks for the sub 😊
Love this kind of content!!!
What would be a shocking scene would be if he was stuck in the Bathroom trap and never escaped and a month later the Police come upon the Bathroom and find Hoffman alive inside just Skin and Bones only survivng off the Tub water. And then one has to wonder if he would reveal Gordon's Identity to the police as a accomplice to Jigsaw.
Love the channel, watch it every day
I hope there's and after credits scene that jumps forward and maybe reveals Hoffmans fate or something that will continue after 7 or Jigsaw. So may ways the story can continue. We can pick up after 7 or jigsaw.
Subbed, great conversation, so hyped for this movie, ready for it! 💯😃
Ngl, I mostly want to know more about Logan in relation to Larry and Hoffman than anything else since I personally love Jigsaw more than most of the other sequels. The fact he was able to keep his affiliation with John Kramer (Jigsaw) secret for so long…which could be attributed to bad writing/continuity like the rest of the Saw movies…and being so low-profile kind of has me interested in how much more input he’s had in previous Traps/“Games”.
If Saw X brings him back…I’ll be so happy
I’m sure you guys checked this by now, but u were right - the body in Jigsaw Logan swapped John’s for is Edgar Munsen…
I enjoyed this commentary - different from just dissecting the trailer, I really hope we at least find out what happened to Hoffman, and tying Daniel in would be great - they claim to answer all unanswered questions in the new one, but like you said, they’ve said that before when Jigsaw was coming out…
I know people don’t like Saw 7, I really did for some reason, the support group was interesting and of course the Dr. Gordon twist, but yea I definitely enjoyed it more than at least 5 and 6 - hated Spiral though…
Really looking forward to the movie - Thanks for the video, the discussion between u guys brought some nice insight!
I always wondered if Mark was the one rigging Amanda's traps to not have anyone win in the trials, she put her victims through to cause more stress on her relationship with John. I always got the impression he wanted to be the sole jigsaw so he could get out of John's shadow. To either punish more people he felt wronged him, or to simply stop assisting.
How do you know for sure the door was "locked" by Gordan?😆 All we saw was him slam it closed like every other person that's slam the door, or am I incorrect?
Curious about your thoughts on a recent comment about Cary Elwes on Saw X...
"I have no comment one way or the other about that franchise, I really can’t speak to it. I’m happy for the filmmakers that they continue to make money, and that it seems to be a financial bonus for them, I really can’t speak to it, because I’m not really involved anymore,” he said.
I've missed that. I guess him saying that makes sense seen as how it's been a long time since he was involved in it. Otherwise he's a huge supported of Saw.
Perhaps we have a Hoffmanns cat scenario, we don’t know if he is dead or alive until we open the bathroom
I love both of your enthusiasm for this series! CZ can be a bit dour sometimes ;) It is a series with such potential, I wish the writers would take ideas from videos like this!
I watched a version that shows the 2 guys taking the mask off it was one of the things that stayed with me
Were the 2 guys Brad & Ryan from the opening love triangle trap scene like the writers confirmed in Saw 3D film audio commentary?
@@thehalloweenheavymetalmusicwar yes it was the guys from the love triangle. I don’t know why I remember that part but I do vividly that’s why I was kind of confused when she said that there was no version where they took the masks off because I saw one was where they did
@@lyndsilentz5171 So it always was truly Brad & Ryan like the writers in the audio commentary said, I had to ask because people theorize that one of them maybe be Daniel Matthews or possibly Adam or Logan if they made future sequels, but that version you saw, there would be almost no possibilty of retconning Brad & Ryan being the 2 pig masked guys because they gave the audience the definitive answer by revealing themselves in that version you watched.
So if I may ask, what version is it, because I am trying to find it here on youtube? I wanna see it. If you could send me a link of that version to click on that would be good too.
I’m really sorry i can’t i don’t know where I saw it and I could absolutely be wrong. I watch the stuff on the TH-cam dead meat and I went to see if they had a video clip there but they didn’t. They said exactly what you said the audio, so I could absolutely be wrong.
I was confused as well, because I recalled plain as day as the film showing the audience the two men from the opening scene removing the masks.
Good discussion and cool video sis!👉😃👈
What if we got to see John and Obi kidnap the Saw 2 players together or watch Larry go through his recruitment process with John.
New Movie
New High Hopes
Can’t Wait for Saw 10!
As a fan of Hoffman’s character I do think there’s a chance he did get out of the bathroom alive and here’s why:
Hoffman is not an idiot, he has what John Kramer looks for in humans…The Survival Instinct. Hoffman has been involved from almost the beginning so I would think he would know about the bathroom trap and would be aware of Adam’s key going down the drain. He could break pieces of bones from Adam’s corpse or Zep’s corpse and somehow get the key from the drain to free himself. That in my opinion is the only logic way to have Hoffman be alive.
So what's going on with Leigh and Costas? Great video btw.
Thank you!
There's nothing bad going on, it's just Leigh replied to someone's tweet about Hoffman by saying he hadn't seen Saw 5 or 6 and didn't know what people were on about when they mentioned Hoffman. I think he just means he hasn't seen them all so isn't up to date on everything to do with Hoffman.
There are the children that survived the various saw traps. There are the people on the Saw message board and there are the various Saw legacy people.
The clash between these three groups would be enough for another three movies or TV show.
I always took the fan website from Jigsaw to be a nod to the IRL fanbase. Kind of like a cool way to tie the fans directly into the plot of the movie. Just my take
I've always wondered who the two masked figures who stood with Dr. Gordon in saw the final chapter. I even asked tobin bell when I met him at a con, even he didn't know
Same! Also what are these other secrets John promised dr Gordon he’d let him in on
Apparently from the Saw 7 commentary, the two nameless pigs were the the bros. from the beginning of the movie.
@@vistea1yeh cos despite that trap appearing as though it was happening in the present it was supposed to be set when John was still alive. I think there was a deleted scene or an intended scene where it would pan to John watching and possibly Dr Gordon but I can’t remember if Gordan was included.
According to writers in the Saw 3D film commentary, the 2 pig mask guys who assisted Dr. Gordon to abduct Hoffman are Brad & Ryan from the opening Love Triangle trap scene.
I love when two channels I wat have crossover
It's like finding out a mate from work and a mate from the gym know each other 😂
😂😂
I think a point missed by many of these discussions is that Hoffman new that facility inside and out, having worked in it for years, so he would have likely known ways out, weak points in the construction etc etc. And even if he didnt, we saw from the bear trap that he was a badass and would go to great lengths to escape.
If he did escape he would have had to go into hiding abroad somewhere as the heat would have been so much that it would be almost impossible to stay in the US.
Quite like the idea of a retired / emigrated Hoffman guiding or manipulating a new successor from afar.
Hoffmans will to survive is very strong, like he survived the reverse beartrap.
I absolutely loved this. Without reading the comments all the while I just skipped SAW X and imagined you both talking about SAW 11, and then I see CZsWorld comment below and I thought: see? I love both your videos separately but I really like seeing you discuss things together too! Keep up the great work you both. I am so amazed at how deep you both dig. Love it!
beautiful as always
I am 50/50 on Saw V. I think the game present day story was the worst one but I also acknowledge that the flashbacks in it is some of the most important things in the franchise to explain backstories.
with John Kramer, being an engineer that makes sense that most of his traps would definitely always work out.
How about the story point where someone survives a saw trap and they’re just stuck and they have to wait because the person that made the trap had no understanding of how mechanical systems actually work
Here from CZ’s. Great video❤️🔥
Thank you!
I dont wanna get into a "Hoffman is alive/dead" debate but just to make a point. I agree that undoing the past in future sequels feels wrong for the story but it still isnt confirmed with "Hoffman is dead" lines. I feel that it doesnt do his character justice to be so easily defeated by gordon putting him in "the bathroom". As we see he went straight for the saw when he woke up either to defend himself or free himself. His drive is survival at all costs. He would have found a way out of the shackle. the bathroom, and the nerve gas house prior to it being found again.
It seems to be left ambiguous to give the fans something to talk about. Its not so cut and dry with 2 options where hes either alive & caught or dead. There are varying degrees of possibilities, not just shutting it down due to annoyance of fans.
Just one thing about the “another copycat” thing, they could be referring to hallorran, since he was blamed for the deaths at the end of Jigsaw
I'm starting to think that John Kramer might be Jigsaw
I think his villains wiki trivia section said that it was confirmed that he died
They went into 3D saying it would be the last one, so, interviews after saying Hoffman died, I don't believe it. He was my favourite character and until I see an on screen death, he's still alive for me.
But his voice was in the trailer for X so, it would be nice to see what he gets up to between 1 and 2
Oh I missed his voice in the trailer. I'll have to re watch.
@@whatthehorror fr?
Excellent video
I believe Logan recruited Elinor and maybe Shanks using the website to radicalize and influence Shanks to the cause, but Elinor is definitely a new apprentice.
Well we've seen how much of a tank Hoffman is...He got himself out of the reverse bear trap with clever fast thinking putting it between the bars in the door so it doesn't open all the way. He also stitched himself back up.... Don't be surprised if he found a way out and if he didn't get out himself someone definitely helped him...Saw X is taking place between Saw 1 & Saw 2 so Hoffman is definitely back because of the time period, but we still wont have answers as to what happened to him after Gordon locked him away in the bathroom...Adam is someone we're gonna see again in Saw X because again the movie is taking place between Saw 1 & Saw 2....I still have my hope that Adam might be alive ..lets see
I would love to see Elinor be a public critic of Bobby Dagan. Like if Bobby wrote "Survive, for real this time!". Some kind of survivor appropriation based criticism. As her experience from Jigsaw could have shaped her into a survivor ally.
Do we know how much/what Jill Tuck told the police when she begged for protection?
Enough for there to be an APB on Hoffman in Saw 7 when he was on the run
Wow i had no idea Leigh Whannell was acting like he doesn't know who Hoffman is 😂🤦♀️ what a weird thing to do
From what he wrote in the tweet it can seem weird but I think he just meant he hadn't seen all of the sequels and so didn't know everything in relation to the character of Hoffman.
It'd be interesting to see Daniel wrestle with his feelings about his dad's death. Knowing all the corrupt things he did, all the lives he ruined through planting evidence and false testimonies.
Can we talk about the fact that officer Rig could possibly still have lived 🥺
Found your channel watching @czsworld Like watching both!
Get a room, you two! 😅💘
I love your videos and Zacks videos. PS since i was the first comment by saying second I ruined 2 people's comments 😈😹
Thank you!
While it's fun to theorize about post-Jigsaw/Spiral, I really don't think Lionsgate has any intention to revisit those characters or questions posed in those films. Those movies just didn't perform well and that's why they went back in the timeline for Saw X. After 2 failed attempts to deviate from the first 7 films, Lionsgate knows now that people really just care about the OG characters/storyline. The average movie-goer has no idea or desire to learn more about any of the topics discussed in this video (except for probably Hoffman's fate). It's just us super fans who are thinking about these things. Jigsaw and Spiral made the timeline even more convoluted -- it would be SO difficult to wrap everything up in a coherent way that the average movie-goer would get. I honestly can't see Lionsgate investing in a movie that would likely fail from the start just to appease a super niche group of fans.
I do think it's worth considering the racial element of Spiral.
I'd always thought that the police found Zeke at the crime scene, accused him of being the killer and refused to hear the truth or consider the evidence. Especially given Shenk's view of the police force, I think he was framing Zeke when he left him there and thats why he didn't kill him. Thats definitely what I took from the last scene given the message of the film about corrupt policing and race. I mean look at how Zeke's father died, the writers weren't being subtle!
Maybe Dr. Gordon gave an anonymous tip to the police about the house and Hoffman
I think if they tie in Phone Booth, that would be an awesome touch
Since Saw X is set right before Saw II, maybe it'd be a good way to reintroduce Daniel (briefly near the end) and set the stage for his return as an adult in XI?
I always assume one of the two individuals that helped Gordon attack Hoffman was Michael Tap, given the ending of the Saw 2 video game but not sure if that game is considered canon.
I just subbed. Leigh Wannell says Hoffman is dead.
LEARN from Candyman 2020 & Spiral 2021 and move forward with Saw franchise! Candyman had the best pasting of the baton in horror movies so far in the last 23 years. We did not see Tony Todd only for a blink but his voice was enough. Saw 11 can use Tobin voice to voice Billy the puppet and flashback cassettte recording scene .What was missing from Spiral was Tobin VOICE and the movie should have shown a connection between John and Emerson. For me,the Saw Franchise future belows to John apprentice / pigmask Lawrence Gordon , Daniel Mathews, Bobby Dagen, Logan Nielsen, Eleanor Bonneville and Willia Schenectady/ Emerson. Each apprentice will get their own movie/ universe. The Saw Franchise will be like an octopus with different legs and than they all come together into one. Each apprentice will have there own story than meetup. Tobin voice will be present in all movies showing how he connect with the apprentice
Could Eleanor be Lin and Jeff's daughter? What do you think?
Jeff and Lin's daughter (Corbett) wasn't older than 8 to 10 years old in SAW III. Jigsaw took place 10 years after Jigsaw his death. We last saw Corbett in the same movie John died (SAW III, and flashbacks to that movie in SAW 3D), meaning that at her oldest, she would be 20 (maybe as old as 23, but that would really be a stretch) during Jigsaw.
There was never a age given to Eleanor, but given her profession I wouldn't say that she is in her early twenties, like Corbett would be around that time. I would also say that Eleanor looks too different from Corbett to be a grown up version of her.
I do however still wonder what happened to the kids/teens that were affected by the Jigsaw traps. Corbett's and Daniel Matthews' fates in general have always interested me and I would love to see SAW take a swing at what happened to them.
@@veeva99 oh shit I forgot her name thank you for some reason I thought they never mentioned her name, thank you!
My dream saw movie is to see hoffman vs logan thatd be funny and amazing
It would be called a jigsaw off
Man, I'm split on Hoffman. He's my favorite character in the series by far & while I'd like to see the prison-arc idea, on the other hand I'm afraid they'll fuck his character up bad.
Jigsaws body is preserved in the Glass Coffin somewhere
I really wish the Saw franchise would just do a bit of a retcon and make it so that John Kramer either faked his death and actually had a (indefinite) few years left before the cancer would kill him, has a twin brother or, make him a supernatural entity. However they do it I’d love to have more movies with Tobin Bell but with it moving the story on from where it was left in Saw 7
i do believe that Hoffman would be alive. Sure it would be poetic for him to be dead and all but thinking about his character. Hoffman is all about survival. That man will go to any lengths to survive. So the chances of him being in prison or having escaped somehow still exist. Of course it would negate the ending a bit but still it would fit very well within his character.