DO PORTED HEADS ADD POWER ON A TURBO LS? YES, BUT DO YOU REALLY NEED THEM? ARE THE DECKS TOO THIN?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- HOW TO MAKE MORE TURBO LS POWER. PORTED LS HEADS FOR TURBO POWER. CAN PORTING STOCK LS HEAD ADD POWER ON A TURBO MOTOR? IS IT A WASTE OF TIME TO PORT STOCK HEADS ON A TURBO MOTOR? IS THE STOCK DECK THICKNESS SO THIN THAT THEY WILL LOSE HEAD GASKET SEAL BEFORE SEEING THE ADVANTAGE OF PORTING? IF YOU THINK YOU SHOULD NEVER PORT STOCK HEADS ON A TURBO LS...YOU ARE WRONG. IF YOU THINK YOU SHOULD ALWAYS PORT STOCK HEADS ON A TURBO LS...YOU ARE WRONG. CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO TO SEE IF IT ADDS POWER AND WHEN IT IS ACTUALLY BENEFICIAL.
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TH-cam must love your channel the ads gets longer and longer and not skipable.
The creator can remove/not allow non-skippables (I do), but many people leave them in as those are the higher paying ones.
Lifting the heads is the real reason too upgrade the heads.
Ported aftermarket stuff is just a bonus.
As always great info man! I enjoy listening to the guys that have the experience and knowledge explain things in detail. Can never have too much knowledge.
For a daily driver, ported heads and boost is a great combo with a stock cam.
Richard, this is the most impressive video I've ever seen about engine prep. No kidding!
You tell the way to go, straight to the point, with empiric data, all in 11m15s.
Fantastic. I'm your new fan. Already subscribed.
I'm an engineer, enthusiastic, but I'm still learning about engine prep.
What you presented I've been through partially, and I know it totally makes sense.
Great video. Thanks for sharing the knowledge and achievements with us.
stock cathedral heads will start having airspeed issue around 25 psi, but they begin backing up around 15 psi. at 30psi, they are starting to get close to sonic. i tested a lot of this on a huge flowbench years ago, at 120+ inches of water the head would fall down
the pressure alone doesn't cause air speed-the flow matters. 25 psi at 1500 hp is a different air speed than 25 psi at 1000 hp
Due to the expense, I would not suggest the boosted enthusis to spend on head or porting cost. Personally, I would rather them spend on good valves and springs.
When on a budget your looking for the most bang for the buck. The above mentioned will help you new thrill last longer.
As Richard has shown everyone, boost works from stock to wildly modified. With limits, boost last on stock ls engines.
So spend your money wisely. Turbo and tuning will gain a great seat of the pant sensation. From there budget a cam. Personally I would suggest saving for a stronger bottom end build from there on.
Don't go too wild with wild parts.
I'm not so sure ive had my 823's max effort on the exhaust its what turns the turbo how that will pan out I will see but got Good figures with just a pocket port on the inlet, bearing in mind rec heads flow pretty good out of the box, its got to turn a huge 98mm T6 1.53 Turbo but its going on a healthy 427 LS, I think will also help spooling my engine guy and myself have put a lot of throught into the combo and were after a decent hp number
Here’s my comment for the sake of commenting to help you with the algorithm… From Australia… keep up the good work!
why just comment when you can add something helpful
@@richardholdener1727 ok… here’s a question. I keep flogging out bronze distributor gears on my SBC 383 with a roller cam. I suspect it’s billet. But the cam company has gone bust.. any solutions come to mind?
It's not very hard to polish the exhaust side, and maybe enlarge the top of the port.... And I can't help but feel like a more linear flow will make tuning improvements, and maybe a more stable egt up to the turbo
Another awesome video!! Thanks Richard!!! 👍
Always a fun watch Richard!
Excellent information 👌 thanks for taking the time to share
A more volumetrically efficient engine will make more power than a stock one in every situation. Making the motor more "Stout" in the bottom end will help with longevity. I've seen 1,200 HP from a "Bone stock" LQ9 with just a turbo and after market computer.(Freiburger and the Steve's did it a few years back.)
PLEASE LOOK AT THAT TEST AGAIN AND SEE THAT STEVE, DAVID AND MYSLEF MADE 1543 HP WITH A STOCK BOTTOM END LY6 6.0L
Hey Richard, who shows the best TH-cam video on DIY porting LS heads? I'm seeing such a drastic, do this or don't do this between individuals, and if I'm shown the right way I know I can do my own heads.
I have not watched many DIY vids on porting
Porting the shit out of my square ports on my LSA 6 liter to get all I can out of it. Porting then myself so no reason not to do so since it is no cost to me. Exhaust side on the square ports is where they need help mainly. Intake side is really just cleaned up
Look at what GM does to the small block when they do supercharged versions:
Increased head bolt diameter.
1 point lower compression.
Forged piston.
Thicker section connecting rod.
Rotocast cylinder head with fully densified deck and tight dendrite arm spacing.
Piston cooling nozzles.
Higher flow coolant pump.
That is, if you're going to sell the engine with a warranty and don't want to lose your shirt.
The LSA engine, which was sold in more cars than all other supercharged LS or LT engines does not have forged pistons.
And uses the same head bolts as run of the mill gen IV engines.
@@chipcurrey653 yup, LS is simple and will still be reliable. crazy, isnt it?
@@chipcurrey653 It also ran less boost than the LS9.
Love the content! Always leads to more questions.
A quality valve job on stock ls heads is worth a lot more than most people realize.
How much
Have you did any 3rd gen hemi 6.1 N/A engine combinations and comparisons
yes-those vids are up-check the hemi playlists
I'll take that 35 HP all day long. For porting heads 35 HP gain is not bad.
Hi Richard,
I’m looking to install a turbo gt42 to produce 700hp daily driver
I have a LS1 Holden Ss Ute and my current set up is as follows :-
Alloy high rise
intake manifold, 102mm throttle body, proflow hi flow injector rails, bosh 968 42lb injectors, Vcm7 cam, crow cams, double valve springs and retainers, Mellings hi volumn oil pump, roll
Master double row timing chain kit, arp bolts, vcm alloy otr and oil catch can.
Stainless steel extractors with high flow cars with a brand new 2 and a half inch cat back system with rear muffler delete.
Walbro 460lph fuel pump e85 compatable.
With you experience is there anything you can suggest or change to make improvements please
all good-just ring gap
If you have cooling, fuel and everything else in check, what difference does it make making 1000hp with 25psi vs having everything upgraded and making 1000hp with 15psi? Cylinder pressure is gona end up blowing head gaskets, but like you said, it doesn’t matter how much boost you have, it matters how much torque you’re making
The higher the boost pressure is the higher the intake air temperature will be. If you take 10 lbs of air pressure out of the equation it may lower the intake air temps by 100°F easily, raising "Volumetric Efficiency" . Therefore making more power.
That lowers temperatures everywhere else as well.(coolant,EGT.)
What methods could be implemented to reduce cylinder Pressures to help stock LS bottom end components to be used? The question comes from the two 6.0L LS engines in the Big Bang Test. The Gen 3 Engine produced significantly more torque than the Gen 4 engine. You said you suspect the Gen 4 Engine was able to produce more HP without damaging the Engine, possible due to less Torque, and therefore less Cylinder Pressure? Could this be done by Cam profile and Intake Manifold style, along with Ignition Timing? Or, Is this from one Engine using Cathedral Port Heads vs the Rectangular Port Heads? Thank you for sharing your testing and putting actual dyno numbers to support real world Engine Configurations.
short runner intake, rpm-controlled boost curve
@@richardholdener1727 high rpm camshaft?
Running a larger turbine wheel is a very good way to reduce pressure
Above about 700ish horsepower, the biggest problem i see is people that dont concentrate enough on their suspension. Putting what power they have to the ground makes more sense that being h3ll bent on 1k hp.
Ill put money that most guys that spend 2-3k on heads would be better off spending the same money in an effort to get their suspension more efficient. 1000hp is useless if you can only put 400 to the ground.
Stock cast iron LQ4 heads until 1,000hp...
I think you should run an engine to high back pressure with a tight LSA and then put a wide LSA in it and settle the controversy about 111 versus 118 (say) once and for all. We have very respected builders who cannot agree on the subject. Darren Morgan explains it, his thoughts are hard to argue with.
why does it have to be high back pressure?
@@richardholdener1727 they say the advantage is when the boost pressure to back pressure is uneven .either one higher than the other it's better not to open both valves because it effects the inertia in the ports .I don't know, it would be a good test. I'd love to see.all of us argue about it too.
@@richardholdener1727 A former BMW F1 turbo era engineer told me , and I have same opinion : Do you really think the turbo will push enough air into the cylinder with a stock BMW cylinderhead to make 1500 hp out of a 1600 cc engine?? We made engines NA to produce at least 285 hp then switched in such engine to lower compression pistons and only such engine made the requested hp.
I guess that says enough.
I ran into that with Hayabusa compressor boosted engine. Customer told me that with stock engines boost was about max 11 psi ( stock piston/compression) but that with 3 sizes of compressors , say 245 275 and 295 hp could be made. The latter got a bit
' turbo lag ' as compressor was huge.
But with a turbo set up the stock engine would made instantly 340 hp at 11 psi.
The difference between compressor set up and turbo set up is 1 important thing during overlap : in the compressor engine the combustion chamber can be set on vacuum by the exh pipe tuning. And only when the exhaust valve closes the pressure in the cylinder will rise. Then piston runs down the bore and the question is : how much is cylinder pressure at point of int valve closing??
In the turbo set up intake pressure is 11 psi whereas exh pressure is 11 psi hence ( depending on gas velocities and exh pipe scavenging) the cylinder is near 11 psi of pressure. Meaning the 30cc chamber is on 11 psi...thats twice more air MASS then in the compressor engine. Running down the bore and going up again its clear the turbo engine cannot be beaten in cylinder filling as its impossible for the compressor engine to overtake the turbo engine regarding cylinder filling as it starts with less air mass after closing exh valve after tdc.
The customer of this Hayabusa compressor engine had a extraterrestial huge exhaust system on it with four HUGE mufflers : what goes in MUST go out EASILY!!! After some thought of my side I suggested him closing 3 of the mufflers ( leave them on for the show ) and have a go. Then he reported a much better torque and driveability /smoothness of the engine with only 0.5 percent loss on max power.
depends on the capacity of the powertrain
Any testing with the AFR 210cc LS1 Enforcer Cylinder Head - Small Bore 5.3L? The price seems pretty good, but wondering about performance
Why is no one talking about engine response between ported and stock heads ?? Did a couple of turbo engines Audi 1.8t Audi 5 cylinder 2 and 4 valve. Made small ports with high flow. ( always test at 70" tp) . With some there were minor gains at dyno . But drivers would praise the lack of turbo lag.
One Audi 1.8t customer stated , after flowing the head and going from 340 to 365 hp : I am getting scared by the engine as when I only look at the pedal wheels start spinning instantly and its a hell of a job keeping it on the road.
Hmm....you dont go telling me that wheels dont spin at 340 hp...... but do instantly looking at pedal with 365 hp ?? 😁😁😁
if the porting doesn't add low-speed torque-it won't change boost response
@@richardholdener1727 in all cases the porting added low speed torque....
The 365 hp Audi 1.8t started pulling at 1700 rpm like , I quote a V@lksw@gen development engineer who drove it " like one of our diesels "
Daryn Morgan is right : gasspeed is everything!
Would Ported Heads (despite there large price) Put Your Engine In A Wider Tuning Window In Terms Of Safety? As In Not Shooting For Crazy HP (Not taking advantage of the ported heads cam and turbo for big HP but for reliability/tune safety window?)
Could you do a test comparing the Dorman cathedral port truck intake vs the stock unit? I know you did the dorman ls2 manifold but im not sure if the 165-183 intake is different
I tested the truck intake too
@@richardholdener1727 Let me go in the back log lol
Richard: I have an original Holly tag # Autolite C9AF-M-8HC A. I took it off my 1969 Mustang with a 428 CJ myself in about 1973 when the first oil embargo hit. Would like to get rid of it. Interested? Would apply to your video on the Boss 351. I think these were 735 CFM.
did the 428 share the autolite with the Boss 351?
Have you already done an article or video on stock heads for flat top 5.3s (243 vs 862 vs etc etc etc)?
yes
Awesome video, thanks
Hey Richard ! Do you know anything about Deshrouding heads ?
yes-there is a video up on that with 706 heads
Hey Richard I have a question, I have a supercharged ls3 with a cam. Stock heads 10psi I made roughly 740whp. Thought it would be a good idea to have the heads ported by Frankenstein, afterwards I only made 7psi and roughly 690whp. Everything else is the same with the car just had the heads ported so curious why I lost horsepower instead of gained.
sounds like you have a leak some-ported heads don't do what you describe
Ring gap all the boost That's all you need
NA 350hp per 14.7 psi of air/fuel mix = 23.8hp per every 1 psi of air/fuel mixture If, So then 23.8hp x (14.7+8 PSI) = 540hp approx.....
easier math-350 na hp = 700 hp with 14.7 psi
@@richardholdener1727 For some reason I (we) tend towards complexity.
I've always wondered about a %age of porting, on a turbo engine, in re: to low-end and then top-end velocity. That is, an optimal balance, taking advantage of good heads and a turbo. But then it's where I want turbos to come-on, for the street. I think in low-to-mid performance, which can help CID, cam and heads. Where the turbos are working more, for the $$$ and effort.
whatever the heads do na-that is what they do with boost
@@richardholdener1727 I get it, thx.
It would be cool to see what a blow thru ls e85 non intercooled iats would be vs intercooled under the carb
intercooler adds power and lowers charge temp with any fuel
@@richardholdener1727 ya I know intercooler makes more power i was just curious for guys like me that don't run and intercooler what the iat below the carb is my intake feels like it was in the refrigerator when my car is running on e85
Richard! I see my notifications are turned off and I CANNOT turn them on. TH-cam is having a problem with your channel and I thought you should know.
I'll check
Richard, do you think spray pattern on injectors affects anything? (Power, mixture, drivability, efficiently, etc)
yes
I’d be interested, as to how much is to be gained for the type / level of valve job on otherwise stock heads, for sizing of the throat, seat departure, valve back cuts, etc..
can you tell me what injectors your running part number would be nice THNAKS
pick injectors for your power level
That’s my power level
I'd think unless your doing the porting yourself, it would be more cost effective to buy aftermarket heads.
Still better value, most people porting their own heads are either messing them up or leaving too much on the table from being too mild. It would be a benefit to add into these videos that the HP numbers being shown are pretty low. In today's world basic street cars start at 1k HP levels. Not really worth the expense and hassle of a turbo to make 500-600HP anymore.
basic street cars don't start at 1000 hp and MOST people who DIY porting don't ruin heads
@@taylorsrus9543 that is an awefully bold statement from someone lacking the 1000 horsepower car lol
@@DWBmotorsports My old, old, old setup went faster than your car did in its video weighing WAY more, old, old setup made over 1000fwhp, video is on my page, old setup more than that, new setup on track for more than that. All daily driven. Does 200 miles round trip to the track.
Besides all that, factory cars coming with 650-700hp stock now. 1khp isn't what it used to be. Anyone doing 500-600hp motor today thinking they are going to be street king is going to be disappointed. Now if you are building a cars & coffee cruiser, and it makes you happy, then by all means enjoy.
Richard best aftermarket LS3 style head. Flotek or ? Please help I'd like to spend less than 2k
Thank you
I'd like to make 600hp motor. I am planning on going turbo eventually however on all motor I'd like to make 550- 600hp
Thank you
use the stock head
@@richardholdener1727 thank you Richard. I greatly appreciate your honest professional answer. Wishing you and your family the very best ✨. 🌟👍💙
At 5:12 the graph of stock vs modded was there any data of boost response? I know the load in engine dyno comes into play but the till 4000 of the NA engine there was no difference so assuming in that same turbo in that set up of the two would be same lag till 4k?
look at the torque curves of the mod vs turbo and the previous stock vs turbo for your answer
Do you recommend the btr small bore ls9 head gaskets for a 15-20lb 5.3 setup? Thanks
they will work, we also used fel pro and ls9
@@richardholdener1727 thanks sir
Chevy 3.6 L's head with turbo
You probably need to save that money for the $10000 th400/converter combo you need for 1000+ hp
or get a T56 manual, it came in the corvette and can hold plent
a stock T56 won't hold 1000 hp
ud think it destroy stock rods and piston. before warping the deck
If you warped the head and deck .. ud probably need a detonation. And it be boost or above 14:1 or there sthe early alloy blocks that pull head bolt threads
Making turbocharged power is not an issue, making turbocharged engines live is the issue
I feel that a lot of these quick pull dyno engines would blow to bits in an actual car in short order. Would be interesting to see some of these actually make passes
a typical dyno pull lasts longer than 1/4 mile with more load
@@richardholdener1727 You forgot about the burnout, the 10 seconds on the 2 step and the 2 or 3 seconds way past redline or on the limiter if you use one
@@taylorsrus9543 I have seen lots of passes on boosted junkyard ls engines. I have made several passes on my daily driver ls swap 6.0 200k mile junkyard engine
Do you have any info on modifying a 6.2 boss engine?
no sir
How do the Trickflow 205's compare to a Factory LS3 head? They're obviously an improvement over a Factory Cathedral head, but so are LS3 heads.
a factory rec port head won't fit on a 4.8 or 5.3l bore
@@richardholdener1727 That's true. I had the idea in my head because I've got an LY6. Would the aftermarket heads you chose for the comparison changed if it was a 6.0?
Hey Richard, How much flow would I need for a 410 ci FE at 10-12 lbs running the crossover behind the headers and a VS 7875 the 245@.050-.600 lift cam with the turbo tucked up behind the torque box on the 65 Galaxie and a 4 inch pipe out under the door straight out .
you have enough
@@richardholdener1727 The heads are iron and flow 276 /185 with long tube headers and the above can , I hope will keep the boost curve to allow driving in the 3300 rpm area for cruising around and that is where the converter hits, if it goes to boost from 3500-7000 the block will be at its best geometry. 10-12 bar will be beastly!
Personally I blame squirrels
Why would porting heads have anything to do with head gasket sealing. Stock or with boost you just lost me. Maybe I misunderstood I'm going to have to rematch. Cool vid tho
think stock deck distorts and does not seal as well as thick (after market head) decks
@@richardholdener1727 yeah I under stand that but are talking about after macheing the block and heads. I understand the porting stuff, I have ported stock cast iron and aluminum heads. I could see it being a problem if you took way to much out of the short side of the intakes but that's part of it. I've not had any issues but I don't deal with all the same stuff you do. I'm not knocking you I enjoy and watch almost everyone of your vids. Thanks for chatting with Me on this
@@willkincaid5841 I think he is talking about stock heads vs aftermarket heads. Aftermarket heads have a much thicker deck and all-around better casting.