Might be an easy fix; what if they had the same crit-slot situation as superheavies (ie, crit requirements are functionally halved) for a torso with a turret? It wouldn’t invalidate existing designs, provides a little bit more room, and gives that extra little bit of oomph. I’d have to look at how the crit slot math works out though in terms of available space, but it probably wouldn’t be that much different.
Quads have been hampered by their rules since Day 0. For example, "back" torso armour should have been belly armour, with attacks from behind still hitting the hull, the "front" torso armour. With better hull down rules, and the mech turret being introduced early. It would have made for the walking tank that is terrified of infantry.
@@MechanicalFrog I feel like quads have beefier legs than bipedals, so they could get critical points on their legs? This way they could use endo etc. More in the CT would alsobe great. dorsal mounted CT weapons would be ace.
It does have the crits. Two spaces for a turret in one torso, twenty crits for a cannon. Two tons ammo. Two more tons in center torso. Heat sinks in four slots for legs. Tricky, but it IS possible.
4-legged mechs seem to get a lot of hate, sort of like LAMs. I would love to see more on both. Especially since WoB had their own LAMs which sort of indicates that they aren't just holdovers from designs shared among multiple big-robots-blow-stuff-up franchises.
Tabletop Min/Max folk tend to not like them because they're objectively outclassed by the bipedal designs. In-universe though? I think the quads have some good features that could make them quite valuable.
@@MechanicalFrog I think that the Dark Age/iLClan era might be a good reset for them as well. For example, maybe they slot in preference wise between retrofit workmechs and bipedal battlemechs.
A few weeks ago I went up against a custom Goliath during a game at the local hobby store. It was essentially a Goliath C with hardened armor. As it turns out, assault mechs with hardened armor are not easy to take down, and the turret mount means that the classic "outmaneuver the big, slow mech and poke at it from behind with light mechs" strategy is a lot more dangerous than usual. I'm looking forward to trying out the Goliath myself once the plastic model comes out with the forcepacks from the recent kickstarter.
Goliath and Scorpion are my go-to quads, both being one of my favorite mechs of their class, their introductory versions are decent, with upgrades being stellar, the Word of Blake Goliath model is probably one of my favorite variants of any mech in the game. Do not sleep on the Scorpion or Goliath.
@@MechanicalFrog Don't forget Snow Fox, it was classic quad mech which later got converted to Omni mech and has now replaced Fire Moth as elemental taxi for Scorpion Empire
I like the variety. It’s nice to have quad and tripod mechs along with bipedal. Just like combined arms with tanks, artillery, infantry and air support. Variety is the spice of life. Plus…..AT-AT vibes 😁
There is at least 9 in game that I can think of. Everything from the Tarantula to the Barghest. WOB had a couple, and so did the Clans. Like MF, said, the biggest issue is Critical Spaces; there just isn't enough
Back in the 90's I tinkered. Using the salvage rules I kitbashed a Goliath. With the non cannon Huntress artillery Mech, I created an Artillery Goliath. It was slow, and didn't carry many reloads, but the stability of the quad design, as well as the Mechs ability to handle most terrain made it a promising variant.
What artillert piece was it? Thumpers have absurdly good 20 ammo per ton. And even the sniper is solid at 10, it's not till the long tom younget ac20 levels of poor ammom
The Huntress had the same ammo limit issue. I have a video on my channel somewhere highlighting the non-cannon Huntress. I'm thinking of the top of my head that it's printed in a old FASA Stardate magazine.
Wait wait wait, no Plasma Rifles? OR Pulse Lasers?? We got a skinwalker in a frog suit boys.... Loving this series, its been my go to background noise/vid to fall asleep to for a couple weeks now. And as a relatively new fan (HBS BT my beloved) you've introduced me to some interesting mechs. Heres hoping quads get more attention in the future!
An elephant and The Borg enter a bar…… although seriously i love quads I’m currently running a Scorpion with an MRM40 ( with Apollo) and and ER Med Laser (C) , this little bug is a great back stabber and looks adorable in modded HBS
I love QuadMechs, they just look cooler, it's a shame Clans, already rejecting the more humanoid look in their original designs, didn't more widely adapt the Quads.
@@DIEGhostfish I knew the Scorpions were big on those, saw some Hells Horses, well, horse themed Quads, but I didn't know about the Cloud Cobra one. Thank you!
If you like the Goliath C, you might also like the Doom Courser, a 70-ton Dark Age OmniMech from the Hell's Horses that's a bit like an Omni-Goliath: it has an ER PPC and LRM-20 in a quad turret, and a Gauss Rifle in its prime configuration. Also, it looks real neat.
The Goliath is a mech you can make work, but you really need to be able to cover the mech's rear because it can't torso twist to fire behind it (later eras mitigate this with quadmech turrets). One loadout I've played around with in introtech ditches the PPC and machine guns entirely, upgrades the LRM-10s to LRM-15s fed by three tons of missiles, and installs four medium lasers with two facing aft to deter flanking light mechs. I also moved all of the heat sinks into the side torsos in order to provide an extra bit of insurance against the ammunition getting hit if the armor is compromised. This loadout turns it into a competent if still slightly underwhelming fire support platform that has at least some ability to defend itself close-in, but it should still have some sort of bodyguard mech by its side at all times. A later refit I came up with which imho still sticks to the spirit of the original Goliath is one I call the GOL-4Z. Debuting in 3068, its primary weaponry consists of a pair of turret-mounted ER large lasers and two torso-mounted MML 9s fed by four tons of CASE-protected missiles. Each leg also has an M-Pod in it to deter infantry or battle armor that gets too close. Armor is increased to 16.5 tons of standard plate, the most the chassis can support, and twelve double heat sinks provide sufficient cooling to fire the ER large lasers while standing still without going into the red. A light fusion engine and endo-composite structure were necessary to save weight for this. It's not heat neutral by any means - if you need to move just shoot one of the ER large lasers and both MML-9s and you can stay heat neutral at a full sprint - but it'll get the job done.
Ive been tinkering with quad mechs recently. I think they have some serious advantages and disadvantages. If you play to their strengths they are great. If not you will be over paying in bv for what you get. Things Ive learned that are critical: 1. Water is your friend. 2. They will be undergunned so you need to make sure the mech stays in optimal range. 3. Oddly enough this type of mech is begging for hardened armor. Combine it with a turret and long range guns for some a seriously hard to kill base of fire. 4. Prone is your friend. Dont ignore it. You can prone in one turn, spend 2 to get up with facing change on turn two and run off. No psr provided the legs are intact. You dont take penalty for firing from prone. That make this basically the ideal strat. Go basically near max distance and go prone. 5. Consider compact engines and compact gyro. 6. An omnimech version carrying battle armor is really nice. Dont carry them the whole way, but it can be a way to get them into combat and then have them get back on if you need armor for the evac.
Thanks for doing this videos. One clarification on the M-Pod on the GOL-7K: those function like LBX autocannons (including -1 TN) delivering different damage at range: 15/10/5 (for Short/Medium/Long); then it rolls on the corresponding Cluster Hit Table Column, but does all damage to one location.
I've been a quad stan since the secret unlockable Tarantula in MW2. I already prefer non-humanoid designs generally, and quads just take that to another level. They may not be the best mechs in the setting, but dangit they look cool. Its been quite a sad ride throughout the years of MW and other Battletech games, none of which have featured any quad designs. So I was absolutely thrilled that both the HBS Battletech game and MW5 eventually got quads (through mods, but still). It was a triumphant reunion after the decades of absence since MW2. The Goliath isn't my favorite quad by any means, especially since I have a further preference for the X-quads over the beast leg designs. But its still a great looking design.
I've always felt that light mechs are where quad mechs really shine, especially with the intro of the quad turret. You can easily fit a scout mech's entire payload into a .5 ton turret. Plus scout mwch really shouldn't be in melee and having a runner mech that can lose a leg to a lucky shot and keep going is just useful.
Having fielded a Stalking Spider and a Thunder Fox with success, I don't think quads are going anywhere. They're an under utilized and under appreciated platform
The M-Pods on the 7K are more than just anti-BA and anti-infantry, they're basically giant claymores which can do 15 points of damage each to a mech at point-blank range!
Fun variant and definitely different with the Thunderbolt 20, but I'm going with a Disco Death Ball. It stays at 16.5 tons of armor coverage and mounts a Light engine for tonnage, and in the right torso a Turret with a Heavy PPC and an ER Medium Laser with an insulator to keep heat down. In each leg, a small pulse laser with the fore legs facing forwards and the rear ones facing backwards, for when you want to kill that pesky infantry without the risk of an ammo explosion. Each leg also has a jump jet as who expects an elephant to fly? All of the weapons are tied to a 4 ton targeting computer in the left torso. Finally, it mounts a laser AMS in the center torso, and mounts 15 Double Heat Sinks. It isn't very powerful and is far from heat-neutral (38 Heat if all fired with JJ and the Laser AMS), but it's more of a punch for a backline raider unit than a frontline fighter. Plus an assault mech in the enemies rear would likely cause confusion from a lore perspective. But honestly, it is hard to top the Goliath C in overall effectiveness, but Clan weapons definitely have the advantage of being both compact and lightweight when compared to their IS counterparts.
In reality we would be much more likely to see 4 of 6 legged mechs before practical bipedal designs I feel like the Goliath is a great walking tank. Let us be real though, it really needs a turret like in the later models.
Quad-mechs are sort of like LAM's, fun but you're always out of room, or armour or ammo or heatsinks... etc etc Basically a huge pain for number crunching to make something of them. I always thought the approach in game should have been made more tank with legs than mech with two more legs in that they should have made a turret hit-location you can stuck stuff into, move the head-location to the CT and it wouldn't be playing second fiddle to bipedal designs. That's really the only downside to them, otherwise the extra stability is pretty good in a really sweaty fight. They are cool but sadly just a bit gimped without a lot of real positives to make the design appealing.
I own a Goliath and a Scorpion in lead, same lance even. I always wished they'd given them some special rules to compensate for losing so many crit spaces, the extra limb armor barely mattered. Maybe an extra 1 mp at your run speed although that may be too strong, or the player can use a slightly lighter engine for the same speed, something like that.
While I do like the Xanthos more than the Goliath, I still think the Goliath is a pretty decent 'Mech. The variant I created isn't an ISM variant, surprisingly enough. The Goliath IIC was developed by the Scorpion Empire in 3151 as a production-scale test-bed for their 'rumored' Goliath OmniMech project. Utilizing a Standard Fusion engine rather than XL for space and durability considerations, it does mount Clan Endo Steel to reduce weight. It carries 11 DHS but only 14 tons of Standard armor, so MechWarriors are advised to be only slightly less reckless than normal. Mounting a QuadMech turret in the right torso, it's primary weapon is a Clan LB-10X with 3 tons of ammunition, with an Clan ER Medium Laser mounted co-axial. Each leg mounts a Clan B-pod for Battle Armor defense, while the CT mounts 2 more ER Medium Lasers with a 4th in the head. The left torso carries an ATM-6 with 3 tons of ammunition, providing the Goliath IIC with tactical flexibility and an anemic long-range punch. All ammunition is protected by CASE II, further increasing the design's durability. Of course, once the ammunition for the LB-10X and ATM run out, you're left with only 4 ER Medium Lasers - and the 4 B-Pods, provided they haven't already been detonated by pesky Battle Armors (or PBIs with anti-armor weapons). There may be a Goliath IIC 2 down the line, provided this one is accepted by the Scorpion Empire and they want to test a new loadout for their 'rumored' Goliath OmniMech project.
Oh, I forgot about this until now: I do have a story involving a Goliath. I was partaking in a MechWarrior AToW campaign set in the Third Succession War where the party used MegaMek to fight the battles. At one point during a garrison contract for the Capellan Confederation, my character received a challenge to a duel by someone from the Defenders of Andurien. I took my customized Thunderbolt into battle against the enemy, who was in a Goliath. It ended rather swiftly when I sidestepped the enemy and kicked it from the rear, causing it to fall forward, which immediately crushed the cockpit, killing its occupant and giving the company a largely intact Goliath as salvage. What was disappointing was that this wasn't the original mech they were in, it was adjusted because of the BV (my character was, by this point, either a 3/4 or 3/3 skill-wise). They originally showed up in a Phoenix Hawk LAM...and one of my character's other mechs was also a Phoenix Hawk LAM (the Thunderbolt was a company mech, the Phoenix Hawk LAM was one of his two personal mechs). Sadly, we didn't get a LAM VS LAM duel because MegaMek wouldn't allow it.
I think one combination that has flown under the radar is the potential of superheavy quad ‘Mechs: the combination can be incredibly resilient, and the increased critical space of the weight class allows a considerable amount of firepower to fit in a turret. I have a 185-ton design with over fifty tons of Hardened Armor, six Clan-spec ER Large Lasers, and (unlike the Supernova) the ability to actually fire all of them without penalty using a Radical Heat Sink System. It also has a C3 master, Angel ECM, and a Bloodhound Active Probe, which allows it to overwhelm enemy electronics if ignored. It works quite well in the “anvil” role, though it’s still a bit impractical like all superheavies.
Thanks for the video! I'm a big fan of the MF variant, it has a cool backstory and is a good update with changing the Goliath but still keeping its character.
The best off set Quads have is more armor. Don't suffer the prone fire negative. Can sink more heatsinks in water with the legs. No PSR to stand up and -2 pilot rolls vs falls. As for are friend Goliath here. Using the base 1H, drop the 7 HS and PPC. Swap to DSHS and Endo Steel and add two tons to armor. Add a LB-10X AC to the RT, w/two tons of ammo, 3 medium lasers for the HD and CT's, keep the LRM's as is, the two MG's and half a ton of ammo, then add CASE!!! to the LT and all the ammo goes there. The Mech is tight but works.
Unfortunately, the plusses really can't make up for the negatives. I think the quads need something else. Maybe a -2 to Endo Steel and FF criticals filled. Something to at least try to close the gap.
When I first got a set 4 of these. At the time I didn't know what to do with it. So I built two of them as a long range support defense unit to defend my merc base. For BV: 1,670 or Cost: 10,824,600 C-bills with standard Movement: 4/6 Engine: 320, Clan Double Heat Sinks: 17 [34] and Compact Gyro . I feed it a Long Tom Cannon in LT/CT with two tons of ammo. Follow up with two Medium Pulse Lasers (Clan) in the RT and one ER Medium Laser (Clan) in the HD. 3rd one is a more reasonable build: of a BV: 2,474 Cost: 10,869,600 C-bills. A Movement: 4/6(8)/4, Engine: 320, added 4 Jump jets one in each of the legs, Clan Double Heat Sinks: 16 [32] Gyro: Standard Gyro, Clan MASC. Internal: 130 (Endo-Steel) Armor: 256/263. Weapons: 2 Clan ER Large Lasers in LT & RT. 2 ATM 6 in the LT & RT with a ton of Extended-Range ATM/6 Ammo and for them close range brackets a ton of High-Explosive ATM/6 Ammo in the CT all linked to a Targeting Computer and as for a treat a Clan Light Active Probe. (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) The final one I build was an fast mobile Arrow IV platform. but hold on to your butts for this one. For a BV: 1,982 or Cost: 12,055,800 C-bills. Movement: 4/6(8)/4 Engine: 320, it also has MASC! Added 4 Jump Jets just because. Then Clan Double Heat Sinks: 10 [20] as usual. Gyro: Standard Gyro, Internal: 130 (Endo-Steel) Armor: 256/263, Of course the main weapon being a Arrow IV (Clan) in the LT. With two tons of Arrow IV standard ammo (10), and a ton of each RT: Arrow IV Cluster Ammo (5) Arrow IV Homing Ammo(5) Arrow IV Thunder (FASCAM) Ammo (5) Arrow IV Laser Inhibiting Ammo (5) For the FA/FO buttpucker 1 Arrow IV Davy Crocket-M all Protected by CASE II. Have nice day! (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)
An interesting video, I didn't realize the Goliath had so many variants. I hope you'll cover more quad mechs in future, a couple I'm looking forward to are the Ballius and Doom Courser. I like the MF of the Goliath, especially since it includes the Thunderbolt 20. I personally wouldn't have gone so hard on the ERSL's, maybe swapping four out for two more ERML's. In spite of their build limitations, I think that quad mechs with turrets are in a good spot. I personally like quads for the little extra toughness they bring to the table. I feel the lack of space inadvertently reinforces this, as they trend toward using Light engines instead of XLs to save on weight while preserving space. (I won't argue that it would be nice if things like endo-steel and FF-armor took less space. I'd say half as standard mechs).
Ive got one in my Donegals, usually used as a 9S. That HGR is hilarious and the stability bonus makes firing a non-issue. Its worth it to see the look on your opponents face when you hit him for 25 damage
It really confuses me why quads don’t get extra torso crit slots to make up for the loss of arms. It would do a lot to make quads more equally viable against traditional mechs
My guess is that they didn't want to change too much when they were first designed, and that it didn't matter too much then anyway. After looking at any mech that uses 3025 level tech, I feel that the quads that existed (mainly the Goliath and the Scorpion) actually kept pace with standard mechs of the era, at least build wise. Once weight saving technology came along is when problems began to show for quads. I think the only reason why they didn't change anything is because nobody really used quads and or no new quad designs came out, so they didn't feel the need to update it. Now, they might not change it because it's too late. But that's just my theory.
Those light mechs better not get too close when backbiting. Keep in mind that this big boy can mule kick. A single blow like that at 85 tons is enough to cripple or squash a light unit
@@MechanicalFrog probably why so many love and hate the design. My original opinion on the Goliath was poor because to me it looked more like something found in Star Wars at first glance, but I try every Mech design eventually. It's a lot of the design flaws that got me tinkering with it.
Just started watching your channel and just wanted to say: I love it. Great content, and as a purple bird man I love the videos on FWL mechs. Hope little mechanical frog grows up to be a fine Mechwarrior.
A mech i love to use the go prone for free move to annoy my opponents :-) quads dont get much love in battletech due to their limitations but its nice to see them getting some love :-) cheers for a great vid on a underrated mech :-)
Something I note about the GOL-1MF is the indirect-fire capability of the Thunderbolt-20. (Although the lack of specialty ammo for the Thunderbolt system is ever maddening and puzzling.)
I like the Project Pheonix look for the Goliath far more than the original Unseen art or the new CGL design. Yes, the CGL reimagining is leaps and bounds better than the old armored car on derpy legs, but the GOL-4S has proper quadrupedal leg joints and doesn't inexplicably have a non-functional turret. The lower profile and distinctive head help the aesthetic as well.
I think that an easy fix to make more people like the quad designs would be just to give them 6 extra crit slots in eacb side torso. That way they're tied for crits with bipedal mechs, but it gives them a distinct and thematic tradeoff compared to bipedal mechs. It also means you dont have to retcon mechs, as there are plenty of mechs that dont use all of their crits, so from an in-universe perspective it won't be too odd. You can even make quads have a technological breakthrough that updates the construction rules and explains the under-optimization of the older designs. Sincerely, a mechtech.
I love the Goliath (and not just as a Dougram fan!). Unfortunately as it got reseen in a more ape-like form without a turret, most of the AlphaStrike profiles (except the C, which is a monster) don’t have a turret. When the Merc KS model comes out I hope they redo the AS profiles to give it back it’s turret.🙏 Thanks again for a great vid, MechFrog!
My personal variant for this would be a light fusion engine to keep the 64kph. 15 tons of armor. 10 double heat sinks, 6 medium lasers, and a Gauss Rifle with all the extra tonnage left for nothing but AMMO. I plan to make it RAIN Gauss ammo.
@@MechanicalFrog 😁 turn a 4 legged mech into a mobile Gauss Bunker for direct fire missions. Best use I can find for it. Gauss on, apply directly to the mech forehead.
Cochrane's Goliath's were screwed in that battle. Against any other force, they could have been fine. But no, they had to run into the Davion Light Guards! A full RCT made up of Lights and fast Mediums. It was like a pack of Jackals taking down a Zebra.
Not my favorite quad, but I definitely have a soft spot for them. I'm surprised you didn't take the opportunity to make the audience sweat with mention of the Capellan stealth one.
@@MechanicalFrog that works. I ran one once that dropped the PPC, switched to light engine, dropped down to 10 double heat sinks, and throw on an LB-10x on a turret with cluster and slug ammo and CASE. Then throw on a C3 slave a medium and small laser and leftover weight goes to extra armor.
Its kinda surprising to me how it took a couple centuries after 'mech's genesis for a quad 'mech to make its way onto the scene. Youd have thought they'd have been thought up sooner.
An extra set of legs means an extra huge chunk of price added to any mech design no? Plus R&D into unproven and untested technology is very pricey and its a question of who is foolish enough to be the first so everyone else can just copy the first design and improve on it saving time and money
After seeing a lot of people talking about how Quads are held back by a lack, I had a thought I wanted to put out there. I don't know quite how to word it, but I think when quads were first designed space wasn't really an issue. A lot of mechs from when Battletech first debuted used very little of the space allotted to them, with the few exception being mechs like the Awesome, Stalker, and Atlas. In the 3025 tech level, the lack of space didn't bother quads too much and was probably worth the trade for increased toughness. However, as the tech level advanced quads got left behind as equipment got less space efficient. (Seriously, after Pulse lasers were introduced, new weapons and systems have tended to take more space for equal or less tonnage, directly or not, ever since). My personal theory is that by the time designers found this would be an issue, it was to late to accommodate the quads in some way. (Other than maybe quad turrets, but if that actually helps enough is up for debate).
@@MechanicalFrog its a “hero” goliath comes from some merc group called Kringle’s Killers. You get a job to wack a couple heavy lances of quads, and an assault mech.
The A.S.P.'s preferred quick fix for Star League to 1&2 SWars is to swap the 2 LRM 10 for a single LRM15. With the 3 extra tons they add a pair of coaxial Med Lasers to the turret and another 2MGs for anti-infantry. This is your best low-tech field refit option and doesn't require excessive mods (or larger facilities) to the mech frame. Helps solve the CQ problem without sacrificing damage at range (much). Although the one they still fight with now has been downgraded to a slower speed to serve as all terrain close support artillery (& requires facilities a lot of Mercenaries seem to lack...Sad Panda ;-). Frees up a lot of tonnage for Arrows or Tubes with enough ammo to make it rain all day. Have Fun&Post Dangerous -Lakon Marketing Division, Keelback Office -'Only ship in the Galaxy to come equipped with a soul 😇'
Never did like quads. Prior to the advanced quad rules, the Goliath and the Scorpion were wastes of tonnage, C-bills and BV. Even with the updated quad rules, they were still out-classed by two-legged mechs in their weight classes. Now, one can make arguments for the usefulness of a light quad-legged mech like the 25 ton Tarantula (from the 3055 TRO) which can dance rings around a two-legged mech, thus making it both a great scout and spotter for heavier mechs. And I will admit that if I wanted a fast scout, I'd probably choose a Tarantula. But for battleline mechs, the drawbacks of the quad design are just too much to make them practical.
Part of the issue with the Quads is that they, like they Scorpion, look so bloody derpy. The Goliath escapes that fate, at least. But the heaviest designs suffer most from the lack of critical spaces, and these ones are the ones which tend to look better.
@@MechanicalFrog (The Goliath was one of the unseen mechs, originally from the anime Fang of the Sun Dougram. The Fang of the Sun was a unit of resistance fighters who had the Dougram (a Shadow Hawk), and they regularly ran into Crab Gunners (Goliaths)).
I'm a sucker for the Scorpion, used a few on the tabletop and I like shimmying them around to line up those perfect PPC shots. The Goliath looks like it'd be a nice upgrade if I can find a model or two. With Alpha Strike slimming down the rules, I wonder if that'll make quad 'mechs more viable?
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Quad mechs should have gotten more space for Torso areas but they do get stability modifiers in more advanced rules though.
I agree. More slots on the body would make quads more viable on the board. 👍
Might be an easy fix; what if they had the same crit-slot situation as superheavies (ie, crit requirements are functionally halved) for a torso with a turret? It wouldn’t invalidate existing designs, provides a little bit more room, and gives that extra little bit of oomph. I’d have to look at how the crit slot math works out though in terms of available space, but it probably wouldn’t be that much different.
@@ShasOFishThat sorta works yeah.
An alternative idea would be to tweak the Endo Steel, XL Engine, and FF-Armor rules so that Quads don't have to fill in as many locations as bipedals.
Quads having 14 torso slots instead of 12 would give them a lot of extra space.
I adore my "Doom Doggo" Lance of 4 quad mechs. It's a Xanthos, a Goliath, a Bargheist and a Scorpion and leads to such memeage on the table
Quads have been hampered by their rules since Day 0. For example, "back" torso armour should have been belly armour, with attacks from behind still hitting the hull, the "front" torso armour. With better hull down rules, and the mech turret being introduced early. It would have made for the walking tank that is terrified of infantry.
An interesting idea. I was pondering a possible fix with making Endo Steel, FF, and Engines take up 1-2 fewer locations on Quads.
@@MechanicalFrog I feel like quads have beefier legs than bipedals, so they could get critical points on their legs? This way they could use endo etc. More in the CT would alsobe great. dorsal mounted CT weapons would be ace.
Im surprised the Goliath never got a variant with artillery mounted on it. A thumper, some mech mortars, thst sort of thing.
Seems due for that sort of thing.
Does it have the crits for it?
That's the challenge.
It does have the crits. Two spaces for a turret in one torso, twenty crits for a cannon. Two tons ammo. Two more tons in center torso. Heat sinks in four slots for legs. Tricky, but it IS possible.
Arrow IV Goliath!
4-legged mechs seem to get a lot of hate, sort of like LAMs. I would love to see more on both. Especially since WoB had their own LAMs which sort of indicates that they aren't just holdovers from designs shared among multiple big-robots-blow-stuff-up franchises.
Tabletop Min/Max folk tend to not like them because they're objectively outclassed by the bipedal designs. In-universe though? I think the quads have some good features that could make them quite valuable.
@@MechanicalFrog I think that the Dark Age/iLClan era might be a good reset for them as well. For example, maybe they slot in preference wise between retrofit workmechs and bipedal battlemechs.
I would love to see quads get some Alpha Strike love
Would Quad LAMs be considered as pure heresy?
@@thanaraela4343 ROFL - I'm sure some would consider that to be the case.
A few weeks ago I went up against a custom Goliath during a game at the local hobby store. It was essentially a Goliath C with hardened armor. As it turns out, assault mechs with hardened armor are not easy to take down, and the turret mount means that the classic "outmaneuver the big, slow mech and poke at it from behind with light mechs" strategy is a lot more dangerous than usual. I'm looking forward to trying out the Goliath myself once the plastic model comes out with the forcepacks from the recent kickstarter.
Oh my Gawd! It’s a Quad!!! Great video, Frog!
Thanks a ton! 👍
Goliath and Scorpion are my go-to quads, both being one of my favorite mechs of their class, their introductory versions are decent, with upgrades being stellar, the Word of Blake Goliath model is probably one of my favorite variants of any mech in the game. Do not sleep on the Scorpion or Goliath.
Look at the Stalking Spider. Clan tech, standard engine, jump capable, with an ER PPC and 2 medium lasers. Nasty boy.
@@MrDmitriRavenoff3060 had a lot of fun quads.
They're fun classics.
@@MechanicalFrog Don't forget Snow Fox, it was classic quad mech which later got converted to Omni mech and has now replaced Fire Moth as elemental taxi for Scorpion Empire
I like the variety. It’s nice to have quad and tripod mechs along with bipedal. Just like combined arms with tanks, artillery, infantry and air support. Variety is the spice of life. Plus…..AT-AT vibes 😁
This is a fair and valid reason to bring quads.
Man, I wish there was more quad mechs. They seem really cool and I feel like you could do a lot with it.
I agree! I'd really like to see more quads in the game.
There is at least 9 in game that I can think of. Everything from the Tarantula to the Barghest. WOB had a couple, and so did the Clans. Like MF, said, the biggest issue is Critical Spaces; there just isn't enough
The rules need some tweaking. I would update the FF-Armor, Endo Steel, and Engine rules so that they take up fewer locations on a Quadmech.
There are 35 official Quad designs for BT. Check Sarna for more!
AT-AT with a big gun. Looking forward to the plastic mini!
Yeah it should be a fun one to paint up.
Back in the 90's I tinkered. Using the salvage rules I kitbashed a Goliath. With the non cannon Huntress artillery Mech, I created an Artillery Goliath. It was slow, and didn't carry many reloads, but the stability of the quad design, as well as the Mechs ability to handle most terrain made it a promising variant.
Making it rain... artillery rounds.
@@MechanicalFrog love taps for your favorite foe..
What artillert piece was it? Thumpers have absurdly good 20 ammo per ton. And even the sniper is solid at 10, it's not till the long tom younget ac20 levels of poor ammom
@@DIEGhostfish I believe it was a pair of Snipers with ten reloads. It was the same the Huntress mounted.
The Huntress had the same ammo limit issue. I have a video on my channel somewhere highlighting the non-cannon Huntress. I'm thinking of the top of my head that it's printed in a old FASA Stardate magazine.
Wait wait wait, no Plasma Rifles? OR Pulse Lasers?? We got a skinwalker in a frog suit boys....
Loving this series, its been my go to background noise/vid to fall asleep to for a couple weeks now. And as a relatively new fan (HBS BT my beloved) you've introduced me to some interesting mechs. Heres hoping quads get more attention in the future!
O_o
The Goliath C was one of the first metal minis I bought to add to.my ilclan mercs. I don't regret it for a minute
It's a fun one.
I know they are not 'optimum', but I like quads.
Everyone learns once about the mule kick rule and that is fun.
The Clan refit is legit.
Mule kicking a locust into next week.
An elephant and The Borg enter a bar…… although seriously i love quads I’m currently running a Scorpion with an MRM40 ( with Apollo) and and ER Med Laser (C) , this little bug is a great back stabber and looks adorable in modded HBS
Can I get some apple cider and some pretzels?
Meanwhile I'm here like TAKE MY MONEY. great quad video. Sheds a bit of light on them😊
Thanks for giving it a go. :)
1:11 sounds like what I imagine a neurohelmet pipes into your ears when you take a PPC cockpit shot
All I hear are bells ringing.
I love QuadMechs, they just look cooler, it's a shame Clans, already rejecting the more humanoid look in their original designs, didn't more widely adapt the Quads.
There have been quite a few Clan quads. We may cover one of them in the near future...
@@MechanicalFrog oh, my bad, I remembered they had fewer...forgot Escorpión Imperio. And yes, please do cover more Quads, Clan or Inner Sphere.
@przemoant2560 Scorps and Horses are both big on quads, and Cloud Cobra had the great Stalking Spider.
@@DIEGhostfish I knew the Scorpions were big on those, saw some Hells Horses, well, horse themed Quads, but I didn't know about the Cloud Cobra one. Thank you!
This was one of my favorite mechs way back in the day. All because it is different!
There's something to be said for bucking a trend.
The Barghast is my favorite quad. I had a lot of success with it in BTA 3062.
The base build without the heavy gauss is pretty bad, but it's got great potential and looks.
Glad to hear it.
If you like the Goliath C, you might also like the Doom Courser, a 70-ton Dark Age OmniMech from the Hell's Horses that's a bit like an Omni-Goliath: it has an ER PPC and LRM-20 in a quad turret, and a Gauss Rifle in its prime configuration. Also, it looks real neat.
Ah yes I've seen it. It's a beast.
Doom Courser is horror movie on 4 legs, I love it
I love the Doom Courser. I just wish it had a mini. I had one turn a spider into mist with it's HAG 40.
Bloody hell! If I ever go Fire Horsey I need one of those!😍
Now here's a design you don't think about very often. good video frog. four out of five!
Thank you! Cheers!
ah the Crab Gunner you never forget a classic 👌
Wherever it goes, there it is.
I wish there was more multi-legged mechs
They need some rules love. Perhaps more side torso criticals...
The Goliath is a mech you can make work, but you really need to be able to cover the mech's rear because it can't torso twist to fire behind it (later eras mitigate this with quadmech turrets). One loadout I've played around with in introtech ditches the PPC and machine guns entirely, upgrades the LRM-10s to LRM-15s fed by three tons of missiles, and installs four medium lasers with two facing aft to deter flanking light mechs. I also moved all of the heat sinks into the side torsos in order to provide an extra bit of insurance against the ammunition getting hit if the armor is compromised. This loadout turns it into a competent if still slightly underwhelming fire support platform that has at least some ability to defend itself close-in, but it should still have some sort of bodyguard mech by its side at all times.
A later refit I came up with which imho still sticks to the spirit of the original Goliath is one I call the GOL-4Z. Debuting in 3068, its primary weaponry consists of a pair of turret-mounted ER large lasers and two torso-mounted MML 9s fed by four tons of CASE-protected missiles. Each leg also has an M-Pod in it to deter infantry or battle armor that gets too close. Armor is increased to 16.5 tons of standard plate, the most the chassis can support, and twelve double heat sinks provide sufficient cooling to fire the ER large lasers while standing still without going into the red. A light fusion engine and endo-composite structure were necessary to save weight for this. It's not heat neutral by any means - if you need to move just shoot one of the ER large lasers and both MML-9s and you can stay heat neutral at a full sprint - but it'll get the job done.
Ive been tinkering with quad mechs recently. I think they have some serious advantages and disadvantages. If you play to their strengths they are great. If not you will be over paying in bv for what you get.
Things Ive learned that are critical:
1. Water is your friend.
2. They will be undergunned so you need to make sure the mech stays in optimal range.
3. Oddly enough this type of mech is begging for hardened armor. Combine it with a turret and long range guns for some a seriously hard to kill base of fire.
4. Prone is your friend. Dont ignore it. You can prone in one turn, spend 2 to get up with facing change on turn two and run off. No psr provided the legs are intact. You dont take penalty for firing from prone. That make this basically the ideal strat. Go basically near max distance and go prone.
5. Consider compact engines and compact gyro.
6. An omnimech version carrying battle armor is really nice. Dont carry them the whole way, but it can be a way to get them into combat and then have them get back on if you need armor for the evac.
Thanks for doing this videos. One clarification on the M-Pod on the GOL-7K: those function like LBX autocannons (including -1 TN) delivering different damage at range: 15/10/5 (for Short/Medium/Long); then it rolls on the corresponding Cluster Hit Table Column, but does all damage to one location.
Thanks for the info!
I've been a quad stan since the secret unlockable Tarantula in MW2. I already prefer non-humanoid designs generally, and quads just take that to another level. They may not be the best mechs in the setting, but dangit they look cool.
Its been quite a sad ride throughout the years of MW and other Battletech games, none of which have featured any quad designs. So I was absolutely thrilled that both the HBS Battletech game and MW5 eventually got quads (through mods, but still). It was a triumphant reunion after the decades of absence since MW2.
The Goliath isn't my favorite quad by any means, especially since I have a further preference for the X-quads over the beast leg designs. But its still a great looking design.
I've always felt that light mechs are where quad mechs really shine, especially with the intro of the quad turret. You can easily fit a scout mech's entire payload into a .5 ton turret. Plus scout mwch really shouldn't be in melee and having a runner mech that can lose a leg to a lucky shot and keep going is just useful.
Having fielded a Stalking Spider and a Thunder Fox with success, I don't think quads are going anywhere. They're an under utilized and under appreciated platform
Well that's good. :D
As long as the Hell’s Horses make quadvees, the quad will never truly die.
Stuck with it forever...
Big red doesn't love the goliath wub wub
That's ok. We don't all have to like the same things.
I mean, last I checked it's okay to be wrong
thanks for doing goliath video i asked for ! now looking for scorpion one
Some day...
11:53 "You are opinion on how successful..." You son of a bitch you got me
:P
I love quads, and the Goliath especially.
It's a fun one.
The M-Pods on the 7K are more than just anti-BA and anti-infantry, they're basically giant claymores which can do 15 points of damage each to a mech at point-blank range!
Having a delightful flash of some poor light mech being turned into metal confetti.
Fun variant and definitely different with the Thunderbolt 20, but I'm going with a Disco Death Ball.
It stays at 16.5 tons of armor coverage and mounts a Light engine for tonnage, and in the right torso a Turret with a Heavy PPC and an ER Medium Laser with an insulator to keep heat down. In each leg, a small pulse laser with the fore legs facing forwards and the rear ones facing backwards, for when you want to kill that pesky infantry without the risk of an ammo explosion. Each leg also has a jump jet as who expects an elephant to fly? All of the weapons are tied to a 4 ton targeting computer in the left torso. Finally, it mounts a laser AMS in the center torso, and mounts 15 Double Heat Sinks. It isn't very powerful and is far from heat-neutral (38 Heat if all fired with JJ and the Laser AMS), but it's more of a punch for a backline raider unit than a frontline fighter. Plus an assault mech in the enemies rear would likely cause confusion from a lore perspective.
But honestly, it is hard to top the Goliath C in overall effectiveness, but Clan weapons definitely have the advantage of being both compact and lightweight when compared to their IS counterparts.
That 7k I nasty customer. Though the good old MF is fun! Rarely see the bigger t-bolts
Quad mechs? What Christmas miracle is this? Does this mean we can hope for Arana/Tolva and Thunder Stallion vids in the future?
I can give you a firm, "maybe"
In reality we would be much more likely to see 4 of 6 legged mechs before practical bipedal designs I feel like the Goliath is a great walking tank. Let us be real though, it really needs a turret like in the later models.
Yeah, the Quad Turret is really nice.
IIRC quads used to have very generous torso twist that was almost as good.
Quad-mechs are sort of like LAM's, fun but you're always out of room, or armour or ammo or heatsinks... etc etc
Basically a huge pain for number crunching to make something of them. I always thought the approach in game should have been made more tank with legs than mech with two more legs in that they should have made a turret hit-location you can stuck stuff into, move the head-location to the CT and it wouldn't be playing second fiddle to bipedal designs. That's really the only downside to them, otherwise the extra stability is pretty good in a really sweaty fight. They are cool but sadly just a bit gimped without a lot of real positives to make the design appealing.
Agreed. The Quad Turret helps but, being constantly short on space turns things into Tetris even more than usual.
In universe they are cheap and easy to build and maintain
I own a Goliath and a Scorpion in lead, same lance even. I always wished they'd given them some special rules to compensate for losing so many crit spaces, the extra limb armor barely mattered. Maybe an extra 1 mp at your run speed although that may be too strong, or the player can use a slightly lighter engine for the same speed, something like that.
While I do like the Xanthos more than the Goliath, I still think the Goliath is a pretty decent 'Mech. The variant I created isn't an ISM variant, surprisingly enough. The Goliath IIC was developed by the Scorpion Empire in 3151 as a production-scale test-bed for their 'rumored' Goliath OmniMech project. Utilizing a Standard Fusion engine rather than XL for space and durability considerations, it does mount Clan Endo Steel to reduce weight. It carries 11 DHS but only 14 tons of Standard armor, so MechWarriors are advised to be only slightly less reckless than normal. Mounting a QuadMech turret in the right torso, it's primary weapon is a Clan LB-10X with 3 tons of ammunition, with an Clan ER Medium Laser mounted co-axial. Each leg mounts a Clan B-pod for Battle Armor defense, while the CT mounts 2 more ER Medium Lasers with a 4th in the head. The left torso carries an ATM-6 with 3 tons of ammunition, providing the Goliath IIC with tactical flexibility and an anemic long-range punch. All ammunition is protected by CASE II, further increasing the design's durability. Of course, once the ammunition for the LB-10X and ATM run out, you're left with only 4 ER Medium Lasers - and the 4 B-Pods, provided they haven't already been detonated by pesky Battle Armors (or PBIs with anti-armor weapons). There may be a Goliath IIC 2 down the line, provided this one is accepted by the Scorpion Empire and they want to test a new loadout for their 'rumored' Goliath OmniMech project.
Building a quad is definitely a different sort of experiment due to the location limitations. Fun though.
Could you tell me where I can find about Scorpion Empire & their Goliath IIC?
I'd love to see the Scorpion Empire create a Goliath IIC for their mixed military.
I wonder where I can find the source about it?
Give it double Plasma Cannons.
@@MechanicalFrog I'm on it
Oh, I forgot about this until now: I do have a story involving a Goliath. I was partaking in a MechWarrior AToW campaign set in the Third Succession War where the party used MegaMek to fight the battles. At one point during a garrison contract for the Capellan Confederation, my character received a challenge to a duel by someone from the Defenders of Andurien. I took my customized Thunderbolt into battle against the enemy, who was in a Goliath. It ended rather swiftly when I sidestepped the enemy and kicked it from the rear, causing it to fall forward, which immediately crushed the cockpit, killing its occupant and giving the company a largely intact Goliath as salvage.
What was disappointing was that this wasn't the original mech they were in, it was adjusted because of the BV (my character was, by this point, either a 3/4 or 3/3 skill-wise). They originally showed up in a Phoenix Hawk LAM...and one of my character's other mechs was also a Phoenix Hawk LAM (the Thunderbolt was a company mech, the Phoenix Hawk LAM was one of his two personal mechs). Sadly, we didn't get a LAM VS LAM duel because MegaMek wouldn't allow it.
Fave loadout : ERPPC , 2 MML 9's, 14DHS , 2 ERML ,2 ERSL . Battle Pods . The odd tonnage left over is armor .
I think one combination that has flown under the radar is the potential of superheavy quad ‘Mechs: the combination can be incredibly resilient, and the increased critical space of the weight class allows a considerable amount of firepower to fit in a turret.
I have a 185-ton design with over fifty tons of Hardened Armor, six Clan-spec ER Large Lasers, and (unlike the Supernova) the ability to actually fire all of them without penalty using a Radical Heat Sink System. It also has a C3 master, Angel ECM, and a Bloodhound Active Probe, which allows it to overwhelm enemy electronics if ignored. It works quite well in the “anvil” role, though it’s still a bit impractical like all superheavies.
That's one big boi...
Thanks for the video! I'm a big fan of the MF variant, it has a cool backstory and is a good update with changing the Goliath but still keeping its character.
Thank ya. I need to test it out.
The best off set Quads have is more armor. Don't suffer the prone fire negative. Can sink more heatsinks in water with the legs. No PSR to stand up and -2 pilot rolls vs falls.
As for are friend Goliath here. Using the base 1H, drop the 7 HS and PPC. Swap to DSHS and Endo Steel and add two tons to armor. Add a LB-10X AC to the RT, w/two tons of ammo, 3 medium lasers for the HD and CT's, keep the LRM's as is, the two MG's and half a ton of ammo, then add CASE!!! to the LT and all the ammo goes there. The Mech is tight but works.
Unfortunately, the plusses really can't make up for the negatives. I think the quads need something else. Maybe a -2 to Endo Steel and FF criticals filled. Something to at least try to close the gap.
When I first got a set 4 of these. At the time I didn't know what to do with it. So I built two of them as a long range support defense unit to defend my merc base. For BV: 1,670 or Cost: 10,824,600 C-bills with standard Movement: 4/6 Engine: 320, Clan Double Heat Sinks: 17 [34] and Compact Gyro . I feed it a Long Tom Cannon in LT/CT with two tons of ammo. Follow up with two Medium Pulse Lasers (Clan) in the RT and one ER Medium Laser (Clan) in the HD.
3rd one is a more reasonable build: of a BV: 2,474 Cost: 10,869,600 C-bills. A Movement: 4/6(8)/4, Engine: 320, added 4 Jump jets one in each of the legs, Clan Double Heat Sinks: 16 [32] Gyro: Standard Gyro, Clan MASC. Internal: 130 (Endo-Steel) Armor: 256/263. Weapons: 2 Clan ER Large Lasers in LT & RT. 2 ATM 6 in the LT & RT with a ton of Extended-Range ATM/6 Ammo and for them close range brackets a ton of High-Explosive ATM/6 Ammo in the CT all linked to a Targeting Computer and as for a treat a Clan Light Active Probe.
(•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
The final one I build was an fast mobile Arrow IV platform. but hold on to your butts for this one. For a BV: 1,982 or Cost: 12,055,800 C-bills. Movement: 4/6(8)/4 Engine: 320, it also has MASC! Added 4 Jump Jets just because. Then Clan Double Heat Sinks: 10 [20] as usual. Gyro: Standard Gyro, Internal: 130 (Endo-Steel) Armor: 256/263, Of course the main weapon being a Arrow IV (Clan) in the LT. With two tons of Arrow IV standard ammo (10), and a ton of each RT:
Arrow IV Cluster Ammo (5)
Arrow IV Homing Ammo(5)
Arrow IV Thunder (FASCAM) Ammo (5)
Arrow IV Laser Inhibiting Ammo (5)
For the FA/FO buttpucker 1 Arrow IV Davy Crocket-M all Protected by CASE II.
Have nice day!
(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)
An interesting video, I didn't realize the Goliath had so many variants. I hope you'll cover more quad mechs in future, a couple I'm looking forward to are the Ballius and Doom Courser. I like the MF of the Goliath, especially since it includes the Thunderbolt 20. I personally wouldn't have gone so hard on the ERSL's, maybe swapping four out for two more ERML's.
In spite of their build limitations, I think that quad mechs with turrets are in a good spot. I personally like quads for the little extra toughness they bring to the table. I feel the lack of space inadvertently reinforces this, as they trend toward using Light engines instead of XLs to save on weight while preserving space. (I won't argue that it would be nice if things like endo-steel and FF-armor took less space. I'd say half as standard mechs).
Little trudly boy! Thanks for the video.
Our pleasure!
Ive got one in my Donegals, usually used as a 9S. That HGR is hilarious and the stability bonus makes firing a non-issue. Its worth it to see the look on your opponents face when you hit him for 25 damage
It really confuses me why quads don’t get extra torso crit slots to make up for the loss of arms. It would do a lot to make quads more equally viable against traditional mechs
Agreed.
My guess is that they didn't want to change too much when they were first designed, and that it didn't matter too much then anyway. After looking at any mech that uses 3025 level tech, I feel that the quads that existed (mainly the Goliath and the Scorpion) actually kept pace with standard mechs of the era, at least build wise.
Once weight saving technology came along is when problems began to show for quads. I think the only reason why they didn't change anything is because nobody really used quads and or no new quad designs came out, so they didn't feel the need to update it. Now, they might not change it because it's too late.
But that's just my theory.
Those light mechs better not get too close when backbiting. Keep in mind that this big boy can mule kick. A single blow like that at 85 tons is enough to cripple or squash a light unit
That's why in a light vs one, do the Snowspeeder thing and go for the legs. The rear armor on a quad is usually pretty thick.
Ouch.
Mammoth from Tiberium Sun looking ass mech.
I miss that game...
Such a much maligned Mech, but still useful.🤔
It's solid, just with some pretty hard to overcome drawbacks.
@@MechanicalFrog probably why so many love and hate the design. My original opinion on the Goliath was poor because to me it looked more like something found in Star Wars at first glance, but I try every Mech design eventually. It's a lot of the design flaws that got me tinkering with it.
Just started watching your channel and just wanted to say: I love it. Great content, and as a purple bird man I love the videos on FWL mechs.
Hope little mechanical frog grows up to be a fine Mechwarrior.
Thanks a lot for giving them a go. The nonsense must flow.
A mech i love to use the go prone for free move to annoy my opponents :-) quads dont get much love in battletech due to their limitations but its nice to see them getting some love :-) cheers for a great vid on a underrated mech :-)
It may not be an objectively "good" mech, but it is fun and I'm glad it's in the game.
Something I note about the GOL-1MF is the indirect-fire capability of the Thunderbolt-20. (Although the lack of specialty ammo for the Thunderbolt system is ever maddening and puzzling.)
Finally, we get to the mechs that Vorinclex would eat to establish dominance.
Oh dear...
Well a good team would be a Goliath and a charger, one can deal with the minimum range and brawl. It sure can keep up, and soak up damage.
Visually the Goliath is one of my fav units in the game, battlemech or otherwise. It looks freaking cool.
It needs claws, boosters and the ability to pounce lol.
DFA Goliath. Sounds really fun 😁
Needs.... jump...jets... There, I wrote it down for next time.
@@MechanicalFrog I was kind of referring to Zoids with their claws and boosters ect.
I like the Project Pheonix look for the Goliath far more than the original Unseen art or the new CGL design. Yes, the CGL reimagining is leaps and bounds better than the old armored car on derpy legs, but the GOL-4S has proper quadrupedal leg joints and doesn't inexplicably have a non-functional turret. The lower profile and distinctive head help the aesthetic as well.
Very fair points.
I think that an easy fix to make more people like the quad designs would be just to give them 6 extra crit slots in eacb side torso. That way they're tied for crits with bipedal mechs, but it gives them a distinct and thematic tradeoff compared to bipedal mechs. It also means you dont have to retcon mechs, as there are plenty of mechs that dont use all of their crits, so from an in-universe perspective it won't be too odd. You can even make quads have a technological breakthrough that updates the construction rules and explains the under-optimization of the older designs.
Sincerely, a mechtech.
I love the Goliath (and not just as a Dougram fan!). Unfortunately as it got reseen in a more ape-like form without a turret, most of the AlphaStrike profiles (except the C, which is a monster) don’t have a turret. When the Merc KS model comes out I hope they redo the AS profiles to give it back it’s turret.🙏
Thanks again for a great vid, MechFrog!
It needs its turret.
My personal variant for this would be a light fusion engine to keep the 64kph. 15 tons of armor. 10 double heat sinks, 6 medium lasers, and a Gauss Rifle with all the extra tonnage left for nothing but AMMO. I plan to make it RAIN Gauss ammo.
I can get behind this plan. Way behind.
@@MechanicalFrog 😁 turn a 4 legged mech into a mobile Gauss Bunker for direct fire missions.
Best use I can find for it. Gauss on, apply directly to the mech forehead.
Gol-C is missing the Medium laser on the list. Had to back up to catch you say it 😂
Oops...
@MechanicalFrog all good, lots of Knowledge bouncing around 🤣
I'm getting a picture of Frog's media library containing an extraordinate amount of betamax and LaserDisc 🙂.
Maybe some video 2000 tapes.
My father notoriously went in on the Betamax player. We didn't have a ton of movies, but we did have Star Wars and Real Genius.
The less normal or standard the shape, the more interested I am, and I would love getting to feel how different it would be to pilot them in any game
Credit for unique. They just need a little rules update love.
Forgot to say this when this posted but its only a matter of time until centaur mechs emerge lmao
oh no... oh no!
Cochrane's Goliath's were screwed in that battle. Against any other force, they could have been fine. But no, they had to run into the Davion Light Guards! A full RCT made up of Lights and fast Mediums. It was like a pack of Jackals taking down a Zebra.
RIP Goliaths...
The Thunderbolt 20 is unexpected, but not entirely unwelcome.
Gotta keep you guessing.
Not my favorite quad, but I definitely have a soft spot for them.
I'm surprised you didn't take the opportunity to make the audience sweat with mention of the Capellan stealth one.
No one can be truly prepared for the stealth Goliath.
The Galactic Emperor is intrigued by this design but feells it neeeds to be bigger and carry infantry.
denied.
Make an 85 ton Goliath, 1 ppc, 4 medium lasers, 1 lrm 15. A few extra heatsinks.
Solid.
I tend to think of the Goliath as more of a form of self propelled artilery then a mech. Not bad but not as manuvrable as I'd like.
So you're saying we need to add jump jets to it? >:D
@@MechanicalFrog that works. I ran one once that dropped the PPC, switched to light engine, dropped down to 10 double heat sinks, and throw on an LB-10x on a turret with cluster and slug ammo and CASE. Then throw on a C3 slave a medium and small laser and leftover weight goes to extra armor.
If you want a jumping quad, there’s the SRC-6C Sirocco! 95t that jumps further than it can walk!😄👍
@@kierdalemodels I love mechs that can jump further then they can walk. Big fan of partial wing tech. 😁
I feel like they really should have allowed the torso to twist 360°. Would make them so more effective
That's what the Quad Turret is for, I suppose.
Brigcorp... That has a nice ring to it.
It does seem to have a cadence to it.
Its kinda surprising to me how it took a couple centuries after 'mech's genesis for a quad 'mech to make its way onto the scene. Youd have thought they'd have been thought up sooner.
An extra set of legs means an extra huge chunk of price added to any mech design no? Plus R&D into unproven and untested technology is very pricey and its a question of who is foolish enough to be the first so everyone else can just copy the first design and improve on it saving time and money
@@LazykidsWorld I just figured some early designers would've taken an opportunity to take the investment into something weird.
A lot of it had to do with the early neurohelmets. That, and a lot of pilots wanted nothing to do with them.
Yeah... we don't ask too many questions about the BT timeline... heh
Loads of quad mechs came before Mackie but they were industrial ones
After seeing a lot of people talking about how Quads are held back by a lack, I had a thought I wanted to put out there. I don't know quite how to word it, but I think when quads were first designed space wasn't really an issue.
A lot of mechs from when Battletech first debuted used very little of the space allotted to them, with the few exception being mechs like the Awesome, Stalker, and Atlas. In the 3025 tech level, the lack of space didn't bother quads too much and was probably worth the trade for increased toughness.
However, as the tech level advanced quads got left behind as equipment got less space efficient. (Seriously, after Pulse lasers were introduced, new weapons and systems have tended to take more space for equal or less tonnage, directly or not, ever since). My personal theory is that by the time designers found this would be an issue, it was to late to accommodate the quads in some way. (Other than maybe quad turrets, but if that actually helps enough is up for debate).
Having got this with the Mercinary Kickstarter, I was curious to research it. Neat.
Never did like quads, that said I just found a unique one in BTA 3062. “Santa’s Sleigh”, not much to say except it’s pretty fast for an 80 toner.
That's... horrifying.
@@MechanicalFrog its a “hero” goliath comes from some merc group called Kringle’s Killers. You get a job to wack a couple heavy lances of quads, and an assault mech.
The A.S.P.'s preferred quick fix for Star League to 1&2 SWars is to swap the 2 LRM 10 for a single LRM15.
With the 3 extra tons they add a pair of coaxial Med Lasers to the turret and another 2MGs for anti-infantry.
This is your best low-tech field refit option and doesn't require excessive mods (or larger facilities) to the mech frame. Helps solve the CQ problem without sacrificing damage at range (much).
Although the one they still fight with now has been downgraded to a slower speed to serve as all terrain close support artillery (& requires facilities a lot of Mercenaries seem to lack...Sad Panda ;-). Frees up a lot of tonnage for Arrows or Tubes with enough ammo to make it rain all day.
Have Fun&Post Dangerous
-Lakon Marketing Division, Keelback Office -'Only ship in the Galaxy to come equipped with a soul 😇'
Never did like quads. Prior to the advanced quad rules, the Goliath and the Scorpion were wastes of tonnage, C-bills and BV. Even with the updated quad rules, they were still out-classed by two-legged mechs in their weight classes. Now, one can make arguments for the usefulness of a light quad-legged mech like the 25 ton Tarantula (from the 3055 TRO) which can dance rings around a two-legged mech, thus making it both a great scout and spotter for heavier mechs. And I will admit that if I wanted a fast scout, I'd probably choose a Tarantula. But for battleline mechs, the drawbacks of the quad design are just too much to make them practical.
My biggest issue with quad Mechs is trying to guess how tall they're supposed to be, lol
As tall as you want it to be... *slaps the mech's leg*
Part of the issue with the Quads is that they, like they Scorpion, look so bloody derpy.
The Goliath escapes that fate, at least.
But the heaviest designs suffer most from the lack of critical spaces, and these ones are the ones which tend to look better.
Ah, the Crab Gunner.
Better call the Fang of the Sun to deal with it.
**Confused nodding**
@@MechanicalFrog (The Goliath was one of the unseen mechs, originally from the anime Fang of the Sun Dougram. The Fang of the Sun was a unit of resistance fighters who had the Dougram (a Shadow Hawk), and they regularly ran into Crab Gunners (Goliaths)).
I like Quad mechs, one of my top five is the Thunder Fox.
That's a fun one.
I would like to try to build an Omni version of this mech. That's if an Assault Omni Quad doesn't already exist somewhere.
Um... I can't think of one off the top of my head.
The goliath is the I've fallen down and can't get up.
It needs a little bracelet that calls out the wrecking crew.
This was my favorite IS mech for a long time. Too bad quads aren't as effective as they could be.
Yeh, I think they need some rules love. The quad turret is nice but, not enough.
I would really love to see an episode for the scorpion some day
I'm a sucker for the Scorpion, used a few on the tabletop and I like shimmying them around to line up those perfect PPC shots. The Goliath looks like it'd be a nice upgrade if I can find a model or two.
With Alpha Strike slimming down the rules, I wonder if that'll make quad 'mechs more viable?
You want long range? Gauss or ppc with turret mode
You want close range? *Norris kicky*
OH MY GOD IM GONNA SRM STALKER
Oh no!
Please excuse me while I go build a 1000 ton centipede mech with a gauss rifle on every body segment, and Inferno SRMs in every leg.
Did you just win BattleTech?
Thank you Fang of the Sun Tiger Dougram
Just doing my part.
Ah. Another mech from Dougram Fang of the Sun.
*Gasp*