For local conventions my friends developed a 'Stinger Shoot-out' death match where everyone got a stock Stinger on a 20-30 diameter circle map of open terrain. Getting knocked off the map counted as being eliminated. All contestants started out evenly spaced out at the outer edge and it was every man for themselves. We did initiative with a deck of playing cards with each player having a card so order was random every turn. Last man standing won. One of the most enjoyable Battletech experiences I ever had.
I used a stinger in a game of Classic BT to teach my friend playing Clans to respect the punching table. he rolled a 2 on consciousness roll from 1 head hit in his madcat and fell-over off the lvl1 cliff for great dmg. Not only that he failed 2 turns of piloting rolls trying to get up. I may not have been able to recreate it since but now my gaming group treats any stinger I bring as a Boogeman, and I use that in my current strategies!
There's this gigachad, and then my stinger is just an uparmored version with a tag and a flamer. It's literal job is just scout and fucking with the environment
I recently had a Stinger 3P (the one with the light PPC) score a head hit on a Supernova Prime from long range. This cockpit had been hit by a medium laser previously, so this went internal. After the hit I rolled a 12 on the critical table, resulting in an almost fresh 2800BV clan assault mech being taken out by a stinger of all things.
I only used it for scouting/recon with the inevitable Flanking. One fine day, as I was on a tabletop BT game, my opponent was fielding a Stinger. My CN-9 Centurion removed its right arm an damaged its right torso. I then made the mistake of ignoring it... A few turns later and he'd used Death From Above on my already damaged CN-9, destroying my entire Left Torso. The worst part was that he'd stayed upright afterwards and punched my Centurion, and the MG in the Left Arm got a Critical in my CT, damaging my Gyro. Not one of my better days, but I did learn a lot!
@MechanicalFrog lol I see the wasp as a stinger with a different head :-) I love both they are cheap and easy to use but do they deserve separate vids :-)
I once saw a STG do a DFA attack on an Orion and crush the cockpit. The player who ran the heavy caught a lot of laughter over getting his behind kicked by a Stinger run by a girl.😂
Kinda annoyed these aren’t available in the video games without modding. At least in Battletech 2018s case. At any rate as for Stories I was playing a modded game of BT with larger lance sizes and an expanded mech roster. I was doing a challenge run to see how well I could do using only Bug Mechs(Locust, Wasp, Stinger, Spiders.) Needles to say I lost people 😅 Anyway, one fight on Zathras to clear out pirates had a Hunchback pop up and I’m nervous as hell cause it could end any of the mechs in my lance. He kept trying to hit Medusa but failed every shot and Medusa gets behind him and melees his rear armor, fires off his MGs, and sets off the AC/20 ammo. Beautiful moment
It's super weird there aren't any Stingers or Wasps in Mechwarrior 5, considering they're two of the most common 'Mechs in existence The Wasp's probably the best, without a cramped cockpit, but the Stinger 3G is pretty great against other 'Mechs.
Yeah, because of the Harmony Gold lawsuits that were going on during MWO's early life, they didn't want to add the Stinger and Wasp. So they were replaced by the Spider in MWO, MW5 and HBStech. After the lawsuits were thrown out for good, there was no reason to add MORE bug mech to the games, no one is gonna buy a Stinger as DLC.
I had a group of five of OG Introtech Stingers and Wasps as NPC pirate reinforcements in a campaign mission I was running. These little suns of guns came zipping in, surrounded a damaged merc Stalker and lit it up, hitting internally several times. That thing went down, then the remaining three Wasps and now single Stinger circled a Highlander. They hit it in the head, so the Stinger figured it would try a DFA. Boom, hit, went internal, hit the cockpit with the crit and felled a mostly fresh Highlander. These four pirates saw that the battle was going sideways despite their success, so they retreated, but had taken our a pair of deadly assault mechs in just four rounds using luck and wolf pack tactics.
*remembers RT Bug Bug days* Swarm attacks are terrifying but if they can't get to melee, they probably (?) won't do much. I fear the many kicks though.
Yes! Love me a Stinger. Not just great to train in, great to engage and destroy other light mechs, or harrass damaged opponents attempting to withdraw. Classic light cavalry work.
As a training mech the Stinger is pretty much perfect. Compared to other mechs in a similar cost bracket (Urbanmech, Wasp, Locust) the Urbie is too slow to properly train someone on how a mech handles, the Wasp's extended torso twist could make new pilots reliant on something they won't have with other mechs, and the Locust can't teach pilots how jump jets work. I like the version you made too - it's like a Piranha, but with jump jets :D I made my own version too: Light fusion engine to save weight while keeping costs down, 4 tons of armour, 10 double heatsinks, and armed with a pair of ER Medium Lasers and a Light PPC, giving the mech a bit more punch at range. Kind of like a smaller Panther, but with the speed to actually scout.
I am loving the STG-5G in the Chaos Campaign which we are playing at my FLGS. The combination of a bit of range and decent punch works for the role I use these in. I think jump jet equipped lights are the perfect use case for PPC Capacitors, actually.
@@MechanicalFrog That extra punch can make a huge difference, turning a light with PPC and Capacitor into a decapitation capable specialty mech for a very minimal investment of C-Bills.
One that happened to me and my friends was during a succession wars era campaign, where a Stinger 3G double headshot our Phoenix Hawk PXH-1, that was almost our first and only player character killed in that campaign, luckily their auto-eject kicked in just barely in time to save them
I know it is technically a different mech, but it can fly, let me get these 3 separate tomes that explain it. I love that these just explode page after page in the old books. A lot of the old 'Unseen' designs are what got me into the setting, I'm old... Once again great video and fun custom.
The Stinger is a simple but effective mech. It has a heat-balanced loadout, its fast, its mobile with jump jets, it can fight hard targets like mechs and soft targets like infantry. Its overall extremely cheap and one of the best examples out the counter-argument to "Mechs are rare". Now a serious question: Would you upgrade a Stinger? Stingers are so cheap and common, but also very limited in capacity even with upgrades. No way to cut down the tonnage of those jump jets. Still the upgraded models are surprisingly cheap. An Extralight Engine only raises in cost by about +50% instead of 2-3 times the cost in heavier mechs. Squeezing out enough tonnage to get a Light PPC would be like upgrading from a handgun to a rifle. The Stinger C is a modest upgrade using clan weapons which is still a big upgrade.
Ahh the stinger look at it as pretty much a trainer, scout and militia mech. Most of the time i generally prefer the wasp, but in an act of deperation had one join in with a thunderbolt against an atlas. The stinger kicked the atlas and caused it to fall over in dramatic fasion IE through armor crit the head and double crit the sensors. Ive seen a lot of randon stuff but this incident was most random.
Stinger is a surprisingly tough light mech in multi-mech fights, though I like the 5G variant, goes 7/11/6 and has a Light PPC w/Capacitor. While not that great in a straight up fight, having that flanking and hitting a heavy or assault in the back would make even them nervous of that light mech, especially if being engaged to the front.
Used well these little mechs are dangerous. Medium lasers on that much speed can be surprising. The increased lethality of latter eras hurts, but against soft targets.
The stinger was my original favorite and still holds special place in my heart. The STG-3R has taught that a single medium laser, in the right place, can make all the difference.
I agree with your stance on not starting players off with Stingers. imho the Shadow Hawk SHD-2H is the ideal starter 'mech, since you get a bit of everything weapon-wise, you can jump, and you don't have to worry about heat. Back on the Stinger, I had some surprising success with it in a MegaMek campaign starting in 3025. I ran a lance of the STG-3Gs which I came to call "Cazador Lance" (as a reference to the mutated Tarantula Hawks from Fallout: New Vegas). Turns out that if I could get all four of them behind something, eight medium lasers shooting something in the back tends to kill whatever they're pointed at pretty quickly.
Nice to hear about the plucky little Stinger. It's tricky how in-lore it's a training 'Mech but on the table it's a terrible thing to give a new player. Also, I have to point out: -Mentions that the Stinger was used to testbed new technologies. -Fails to mention some Star League lunatic tried cross-breeding it with a jet. *Stares in annoyance*
@@scytheseven9173 The LAM didn't need an in-depth review, just a mention of "oh, and they tried this, but that's a story for another day." Also in 3025, three medium lasers and a jump that'll carry you across a whole map is pretty darn good for 30 tons!
To be fair, the "training" being referred to is the basics- how to move, maneuver, jump, and fire weapons without falling over or killing anything you don't want to kill. You don't need a murder machine for a job like that, you just need a fusion reactor with some limbs and a cockpit strapped on.
The good old stinger, a scout mech produced in such high numbers that despite how terrible and inefficient it technically is to field the secession wars could not get them all. Kinda like the Cicada, but you can't get drunk and cram in something like an ac20 or ppc.
Great stuff, as always👍 I like the Stinger and when I have used it, it often gets overlooked, my opponent focusing on bigger threats…which gives it a chance to sting.👍
The important part of the stinger is realizing its the training wheels mech that if they break, they can probably even be taught to fix the damn thing. :) It's also one of the mechs that I'd love to see in a serious story set deep in the succ-wars. It's raw, but capable, a story that copies tasking in combat similar to a Kiowa Warrior would be downright fascinating.
@@MechanicalFrog Crawling your stinger up a hillside like an infantryman, jumping out with binocs to go the rest of the way on foot. Writing down grid square locations before hoofing it back into the cockpit that you gotta smush yourself down into like someone refilling a toothpaste tube. All to roll up and scurry back down the hill to get to a high enough elevation to call back the information for artillery bombardment that you only get to see the secondary effects of from smoke and thunder. Maybe even the occasional bit of really getting to use those hand actuators for something, fine control like that from an experienced pilot being used to even do something as 'routine' as emergency work would make for a fascinating story. These lighter mechs, especially the humanoid form ones, can tell some very interesting stories that larger and more destruction focused machines lack the ability to emulate. Can an Atlas tell the tale of trying to rescue the inhabitants of a trapped building from fallen debris? Sure. But that's not why we have an Atlas in a story, its to dial in the violence. A Stinger pilot racing against time to rescue a family as an assault lance moves in slowly to scour the area? That sounds reasonable and even realistic, human, and exactly like a nightmare that one of the first two succession wars would have had buried in it. For storytelling tools light mechs are often under looked, they are the underdogs. They are the deathtraps, these old level 1 tech bug mechs have a flare to them that no other mechs really do. It could, and should be harnessed in storytelling. No matter how much a Marauder on the cover sells better, if its not about money, then the skies the limit.
Never, ever, under estimate the RL15 Version. Early game in BTA 3062, on the Davion/ Taurion border; Me in my Wolverine" Oh look, a Stinger, how cute!" It then proceded to jump behind me, and unloaded all 30 rockets in to my rear armor. Lesson learned: if it's got rocket launchers, no matter the chasis, kill it, and kill it quick.
Definitely a mech I would have taken notice of in the 80s while flipping through the tech readouts at the Waldenbooks in the mall. Had I been paying closer attention at the time, I'd have been asking myself why it wasn't a Land-Air Mech.
A great piece of lore. A lot of people (Including myself) have the tendency to forget that a "light" 'Mech of 20 tons is only "light" by relativity. A gigantic articulated chunk of metal staring a green recruit in the face when they're on foot? It can still be downright intimidating.
We love the Stinger because it's one of the first ten 'Mechs, from all the way back when BattleTech was still BattleDroids. We love it because it's modeled after the Macross Valkryes / Robotech Veritech fighters. And we love it because there was even a transformable version in the game.
Ah yes, the Stinger, one of the very first mechs in the franchise, the artwork bought from the Macross drawings and later doomed to invisibility because of Harmony Gold. I like the Chris Lewis redesign in the Project Phoenix TRO, but i get why many don´t like it. The new iteration by Antony "Shimmering Sword" Scroggins looks good, close to the original. He effectively drew out the space fighter elements visible in the original work from Macross and gave the machine some bulk it didn´t have before. Nice MF version, though it´s REALLY short ranged with this weapons layout. Which is not really a problem, the mech simply rushing in getting speed protection, striking and jumping out.
The Stinger is the spunky little mech that could. It is a good light skirmish mech, and a good mech for spotting in game. But I would not worry too much with engaging with it. Still love it.
My original company commander's inheritance mech. Long after first his upgrades to the Marauder and the Highlander and later his death the Stinger remains as the final backup mech for my company.
@@MechanicalFrog Indeed! Every company getting a random heavy was a Campaing plot point but the Highlander was the end point of a long self imposed quest
Stinger, a decent scout that was pushed into WAY to many roles it had no business trying to fullfill. Like the other bug mechs its really hard to justify its usage beyond basic scouting. In any megamek game i had so far these guys wouldnt last long and where more like a mild nuisance then an actual threat. Also the answer to how many Stingers there are is allways: Yes
@@jamesricker3997 A vehicle isnt allways more efficient considering that battlemechs can even traverse mountainous terrain, swamps and dense woods. Not to mention a scout mech has much more avenues of aproach (especially if it sports jumpjets), being able to climb steep hills and most importantly: they arent limited by fuel usage wich most scout vehicles of the 3025s to 3050s still relying on combustion engines, wich gives scout mechs a theoretically unlimitted operation time. Theres a reason why in lore there are alot of cases of guerillia fighters being able to hold on for years after their planet was conquered by the enemy. Most planets also dont have any form of sattelite coverage or air force reconaisance. Hence the need for scout mechs. That and even the humble locust can still run havok on targets of opportunity like unprotected convoys or ammo dumps
@@jamesricker3997 Riptors9777 makes some good points, but I would also add that recon mechs also can handle water (from streams to oceans) and vacuum as well, both are beyond the capacity of normally ICE powered vehicles. Plus the scout mech can act as a trap door spider in the enemy's rear by powering down until the main line passes it by, then powering back up to harass their supply lines, and even combat units rear flank.
Fun design, fun mech... though I wish the LAM version was still around (curse those Nova Cats!) The description of it showing off it's maneuverability makes me wish desperately for a Mechwarrior game where the mechs are much more nimble. Having come into Battletech from Gundam and other Japanese mecha stuff, I remember how Battletech mechs and western mechs in general were compared to tanks while Gundams and whatnot are closer to fighter jets, and as much as I do love a good tank that put me off. Then I learned more, played HBS, read up on the fictional muscles used in these things... oh well, maybe some day. Great video on a smol but important mech, keep it up!
I usually only put anti-missile systems on things expected to tank a lot of incoming fire. Brawlers, in particular, benefit heavily from them. Lighter units like the Stinger are unlikely to survive many missile volleys whether or not they've been thinned by AMS, so it's of questionable value there. Their ability to be used as anti-infantry weapons in a pinch can be a decent deterrent, but the Stinger 5M already has a superior tool for that in the form of a flamer, so it's irrelevant there.
@@MechanicalFrog It's the RISC Advanced Point Defense System, which is the only type of AMS in tabletop capable of intercepting attacks targeting other units.
@@jeremysaklad6703 I have always played the AMS as usable against any one missile attack per turn so long as it's within two hexes of the intended recipient of the missiles.
My only experience with the stinger is in the battletech mod "roguetech".an early game coffin assigned to an expendable pilot to absorb damage. swiftly destroyed or sold to be replaced with a heavier chasis.
So for stingers swinging above their weight class. I have been in a campaign for 2.5 years in this track I had a stinger on the field. It was alpha strike I ran up on a marauder and hit roll location and get a 12.
The theory of armor on the stinger is taught mainly to bring their pilots some small comfort as they approach the battlefield. ;-) Also, great fun to make small upgrades and spring them as surprises on people. Like putting a clan-tech ER-Medium laser on an otherwise stock STG-3R. lol
I really do not have any tales of derring-do using Stingers. Back in my I.S. days, I always gravitated more to the Locust (best!) These days for lights, I utilize either a Fire Moth, Kit Fox, Fire Falcon, Incubus, Ion Sparrow, or occasionally an Eyrie, depending on time line. My Faves being the fire falcon and Ion Sparrow, followed by the Incubus. Heh, shamelessly a Jade Falcon player, obviously!
My exposure to the battletech universe came from the MechWarrior games and books. I never got into the tabletop element. Most of the MechWarrior games use the post redesign models and the books don't always give the best descriptions. Yours and other battletech content creators videos are often the first time I'm seeing the classic designs of mechs. Frankly, it continues to surprise me how many of the classic designs really were ripped straight out of Robotech and Macross. The classic Stinger is a dead ringer for Macross' VF1A Battloid.
Stinger is a good scout. Cant say im too fond of it, but it's a cheap mech that works well in a scout lance. 2 extra MLs or a ml and some anti-infantry work is worth the 500-600 bv youre using.
Another fun watch :-) always loved the stinger its not fancy or game changing but it will do a job and easy to use :-) ive had a lance of stingers harry an atlas for ages jumping behind it and trying to get through its armour...it didnt end well with only 1 stinger left and a still functional if not battered atlas but god hearing the opponent moaning about how hes struggling a fight against just crappy stingers still put a smile on my face :-)
Good ol' Stinger, the bug 'mech that gets no love, but is just about everywhere just the same! It has great lore too. (Love the in-joke of the Stinger getting sued for being so much like the Wasp! 😆) The -3R was used in 3 of the first four company scenario books released by FASA back in the day. I don't think Snord's Irregulars had one, but the Fox's Teeth, Black Widow Company, and Gray Death Legion all had 1-2 of them! I personally don't think of the Bug 'Mechs as being "starter 'mechs", they are a specialization requiring pilots who know how to use them well. A new pilot in a Stinger is one who happened to get one assigned to him/her. And William H Keith helped to remind us company builders back in the day that cool heavy and assault 'mechs were rare, and that our starter merc unit would feature many bug 'mechs. STG-3R Old reliable, it's a heat-neutral scout that wears its "annoying bug" role with pride. Also good for reminding PBI to keep their heads down when the kings are fighting. STG-3G Not as heat-friendly, but it has a little more armor and won't get offed by an ammo explosion. It's a viable option. STG-C The Clans work their tech magic, and now the little Stinger has energy punch, CASE, and enough armor to take a hit or two! Definitely worth adding to any post-Invasion force. STG-5M The 3050-variant recommended by AGOAMC. It's a great harasser and infantry killer due to the FT, and the AMS prevents death by missile salvo. (Especially with the new AMS rule.) STG-5R Gimmick mech, but a clever commander can make good use of it. STG-6R A true next generation upgrade! A zoom machine equal to a Spider in movement, armament gets upgraded, it can still do is role on the post-Invasion battlefield without instantly becoming confetti. As always, the OG 'mechs have many variations! STG-6MF Good use of Clan tech to help out and maintain the Scout purpose. It's still a problem since the ERSL salvo does enough damage to warrant notice, and up close the Clan SPL trio can result in a volley that can take out a light 'mech or vehicle. As laser boats go, it's a cutter, but one that demands respect just the same!
Light scout/harasser BattleMechs like the Stinger can be fun, but to my mind they often struggle to compete with VTOLs like the Mantis. They each have their strengths, but I find a good VTOL can be a lot more impactful in most cases. It can provide vital reconnaissance in double-blind games, lock down areas by dropping infantry, or simply carry enough weapons to flank and cripple even assault 'Mechs in the hands of a skilled player. While I usually prefer OmniVTOLs like the Onuris (or a similar custom Omni-Anhur I made without knowing the Onuris existed, which I call the Mehit), a more fair comparison like the DI Multipurpose VTOL can still outperform most Stingers in their own niche. This has even been acknowledged in-universe, contributing to the increasing prevalence of combined-arms formations at the tactical level in the Dark Age and later. BattleMechs simply struggle to play to their advantages without more armor than most Stingers have, especially if they can't knock out enemies immediately. This isn't just an IntroTech issue, either: the Fire Moth suffers from this even more heavily, at least in the games I've played recently.
If you have played Battletech for any amount of time you have either willingly, or not, spent time in a Stinger / Wasp. While not what I would call a desirable mech, they do serve their purpose well, and allow you to squeeze in one more mech quite often, when you have reached what should normally be your battle value limit for your army. As for personal variants, I suggest refitting with Endo Steel, XL engine, double heat sinks and either 4 ER Medium or 2 medium pulse clan lasers (balanced equally in each arm). Keep your speed up and you might get a few rounds of combat in, before you take that unfortunate career ending hit. But this mech defeats the low cost advantage of the standard Stinger / Wasp. Another option is to use the Stinger as a TAG / NARC Beacon specialty mech, couple this with a few long range missile boats hidden nearby and you can have a devastating effect on the over confident, who see only the low tonnage scout as indirect fire LRM's rain death from their rear arcs using the increased accuracy of their NARC systems. A personal favorite is to use multiple high speed hovercraft to deliver the LRM's, paired with a NARC Stinger staying just the safe side of a nasty little Vibra Bomb laden mine field (set to 30+ tons). The Stinger is bait to lure in the unsuspecting enemy, while the LRM's openly harass them into acting foolishly and pursuing the Stinger into a mech leg amputation field.
@@MechanicalFrog Yes well if my group would stop using oceans, lakes, etc. as their excuse for "that's the end of the map" then I wouldn't get such options in most every game we play. If it wasn't hovercraft, then it would be aerospace fighters as I love high speed units that drop their ordinance and then run out before they can be destroyed, as missile carriers. I like to send in the missiles from different directions during the battle, not the same one. Land based missile carriers (SRM or LRM) tend to be so slow as to be little better than turrets that can't be redeployed.
I wish I had stories concerning the Stinger and Wasp, but I don't. My first tabletop game gave me a Garm, a Hollander, and a Wolfhound. My Hollander lost its weapon in the first engagement and had to retreat from the battle. My Garm and Wolfhound had to waste shot after shot taking down a WoB Grim Reaper.
I've always preferred both the look and the loadout of the Stinger to the Wasp, even though I think that the Wasp is arguably the better machine, both on TT and in the lore. The basic Stinger benefits from trimming half a ton of MG ammo in exchange for more armor. As tech progresses, swapping to SPLs instead of MGs retains anti-infantry capability while removing the ammo bomb and improving performance against other lights and light hunters.
I really like them both and have paired them up often. I briefly considered doing back to back videos but it felt like too much light mech. Have to mix things up.
I'm a fan of both the STG-3R and -3G, but I also like your STG-6MF (did I get that right?). My STG-7ISM used the -7S as a base, but changed it, of course, lol. I switched from Improved Jump Jets to Standard, switched over to Clantech for the internals, armor, engine, and targeting. Its main punch is a Medium Re-Engineered Laser, with 2 Clan Micro Pulse Lasers to back it up, and a Clan Light Active Probe for improved recon.
Great video as always MF. One correction though: Tai-i Ravannion was a Draconis Combine commander who led the horde attack against the Fed Suns 7th Crucis, not as part of them.
I think the in-universe reputation of the Stinger 3G's heat is caused by the extremely likely tactic of jumping as far as possible and alpha-striking every turn, especially among green MechWarriors. That generates 12 heat, more than the 10 single heat sinks can absorb. That's hardly a sauna, but contrast it with the 3R, which is literally incapable of overheating under normal conditions unless the machine guns are rapid-fired. On a related note, the Chameleon (specifically designed for training) is deliberately undersinked to teach new MechWarriors how to manage heat. Training on an STG-3R is unlikely to impart that lesson.
Ooof, just hearing you say something about knee actuators grinding is too soon after the day I had and how my body is telling me I ain't young by a long shot anymore... 😖
The Stinger is great on the battlefield. I love the dumb-dumb swarm tactics on the tabletop. 1 stinger is just a fast scout that can help target and take objectives.... A SWARM of 12 Stingers can take out an Assault Mech in a turn or two. And it's CHEAP in BV.
@@MechanicalFrog BV or price? Highest BV for a DW is ALT C, at 3,610. A base Stinger is 359(BV2.O). So, 10 for 1 in BV. Price wise is even better: DW Prime-29,350,000 C bills Stinger-1,615,440 18-1 Ref was Sarna and a calculator.
@@MechanicalFrog what's important is to also realize that you can swarm a Direwolf forcing it to stop. Allowing all of those Stingers to fire on essentially a standstill Assault Mech. They can only split their fire so many times.
Hello Frog. The Stinger is used and abused by every faction, both in and outside the Inner Sphere. Even pirates use this Mech type. Although I do like your MF variant of the Stinger, I would have chosen a bit differently for the weaponry. Instead of all the small lasers, I would have chosen Clan DSHSs and put in three Clan ER Medium Lasers instead. Your version would be more useful in tight terrain, and against infantry, but my choice would be easier to maintain since it would have three of a single weapon's type and a relatively simple Mech layout. Laser in each arm, and one mounted in the Center Torso. Should all three hit their target, that would be 21 damage for 15 heat. With Clan DSHS, the Mech can jump its maximum of 6 hexes and still alpha strike, and gain only one heat per turn. So, a turn of running every three or four jumps would see the Mech being 'heat neutral' most of the time. Keep up the good work, Frog. I do enjoy your videos. Oh! I forgot to mention my own uses of the Mech. Well, one memorable battle, I used a Stinger to DFA a Thunderbolt that was giving my unit a very hard time. Although only doing minimal damage, multiplied by the number of hexes moved, saw the Stinger mash the T-Bolt's head to mush. And everyone playing took notice. Odd how they didn't like Stingers getting into jump range of them, isn't it?
I'll never understand why they didn't change the standard STG-3R's armor. Originally the Stinger had 64 armor.After some early rules changes it was reduced to 48. Around the same time period they changed the ammo rules and allowed MG ammo in half ton lots. If they would have used that extra half ton of weight to add just enough armor back to the design so that it could take 10 damage to a leg without automatically loosing it then the STG would be used FAR more on the tabletop. As is the Stinger is criminally underused and understandably so. The Locust has taken it's place in most of the games that I've seen.
@@MechanicalFrog Yeah. I'm that old! I still have copies of the first 3 generations of the sheets for the OG ten mechs. BTW-Alpha Strike isn't new. An extremely similar system was in the first box set and referred to as the "Basic" combat rules. The only real difference was that the range brackets were contact,short,medium,and long. I prefer those range brackets to the current set up. Modern Alpha Strike forces true medium range weapons like large lasers and AC/10s to be used at the same range as AC/20s and medium lasers. If they used the OG brackets with a slight tweak for extended range I'd switch to AS for most games.
I think light mechs are the natural starting place. The video games almost always start you with majority medium mechs, which is a more balanced start, but it only teaches players that light mechs are just easy cannon fodder. They don't learn to respect the power that light mechs possess, or even to truly why you'd want to use them. Start them off in lights, then let them earn mediums and heavies. In my experience, players are a lot better at judging the danger they face.
The base Stinger is one of those mechs I can't help but have a soft spot for, beyond the tabletop. In a basic tabletop game, mech-on-mech, it will struggle to do much of value. But in a combined arms setting, it is a superbly cheap infantry killer and spotter. And in-universe, it is a great example of how mechs have to exist for more than just bluntly fighting other mechs; it's a patrol unit, a recon asset and cheap, bulk-built way to garrison worlds, while frankly more valuable and potent assets are used elsewhere. It's the kind of unit that, realistically, has to exist for any nation and its military. And beyond the base Stinger, the STG-6L holds a special place in my dirty Capellan heart as a great, and very annoying, little bastard of a light combat mech.
If you've read the Gray Death Legion books, it often highlights just how common and useful the Stingers and Wasps are in more than just fighting. It's pretty cool.
Favorite house model, STG-3F. It's like a -3G but the second ML is replaced with a flamer. Cheap little pyrobug. Nothing fancy, nothing exotic. But the two cannon 3025 models are go tos for me.
Stingers, in my own experience, are no longer cost effective once you start adding upgrades. It is a 20-ton mech that is going to get wrecked if it gets hit in a mech brawl. Stingers are for scouting, rear area security or raiding soft targets. Having an anti-missile system is nice, but your average planetary militia's LRM Carrier will overwhelm that, pulse lasers are the exception. ABM should be gospel for all Stingers and Wasps.
It was with a stinger that I learned about Movement is Life, local tournament I walked and got blasted. I designed my own variant for you MF...Simple design that is intended to keep costs low. the 7X uses a slightly bigger engine and partial wing for a 7/11/9, composite frame, Dbl heatsinks and 2.5t std armor. The damage dealers were two Clan Imp. Med. Hvy. Lasers allowing for a 20 point double tap. The cost ended up being only 600k C-bills more (roughly 40% increase). Jumping for cover or rear armor shots will make this a mech a nuisance that needs to be dealt with!
Poor, poor Mercer Ravannion. The Kuritan officer singlehandedly responsible for bolstering the popularity of the Blackjack. That's a rough legacy to leave behind for a DCMS guy.
The stinger has a role and it's scouting, not engaging other mechs. See them, watch them, report back, fade and evade or if in a safe-ish area, watch and wait for your main force. Once they engage, you go around and get behind them. Try and attack their supply lines and gain more intel. A Jump mech isn't up long enough for anti air defenses and can avoid threats on the ground. It is good at aiding the swat teams, doing crowd control, being honor guard at official events or outside mech arenas. It is also good at the smash and grab thefts from banks and museums. It should only ever be punching down, all mechs should focus on either bunching down when possible or team up when you can't. It's a shame so few roleplay mechwarrior/battletech. It wasn't meant to be a brain dead warhammer 40k alternative. Battle Values should be thrown out, 95% of the time you're not suppose to know what forces you face or buy mechs for a fight with battle values. You're suppose to be part of an army/merc unit and make do with what you can get your hands on. Imho the spirit of the game has been basterdized. I like Destiny a lot but it's butchered mech combat and focuses far more on the rounded rpg, it's a fun game. Remember your mech's role, stay in those boundaries and don't be a hero, heroes get more people killed then they save.
For local conventions my friends developed a 'Stinger Shoot-out' death match where everyone got a stock Stinger on a 20-30 diameter circle map of open terrain. Getting knocked off the map counted as being eliminated. All contestants started out evenly spaced out at the outer edge and it was every man for themselves. We did initiative with a deck of playing cards with each player having a card so order was random every turn. Last man standing won. One of the most enjoyable Battletech experiences I ever had.
Sounds like a riot.
@@MechanicalFrog It really was!
I used a stinger in a game of Classic BT to teach my friend playing Clans to respect the punching table. he rolled a 2 on consciousness roll from 1 head hit in his madcat and fell-over off the lvl1 cliff for great dmg. Not only that he failed 2 turns of piloting rolls trying to get up. I may not have been able to recreate it since but now my gaming group treats any stinger I bring as a Boogeman, and I use that in my current strategies!
Wow! now that's a Stinger story.
There's this gigachad, and then my stinger is just an uparmored version with a tag and a flamer. It's literal job is just scout and fucking with the environment
I recently had a Stinger 3P (the one with the light PPC) score a head hit on a Supernova Prime from long range. This cockpit had been hit by a medium laser previously, so this went internal. After the hit I rolled a 12 on the critical table, resulting in an almost fresh 2800BV clan assault mech being taken out by a stinger of all things.
I was not aware of the -3P until just now but I'm already in love with it; fast mobile light mechs with the standoff range to flank are my weakness
Beautiful...
Sometimes it is better to be lucky, than good.
@@meshuggahshirtmight I introduce you to the Wasp 8T then. Light PPC and MML3
If Clanners believed in a hell, that mechwarrior definitely went to it. 🤣 Sure hope they didn't have a Bloodname.
I didn't even realize you hadn't done the Stinger. Is the Wasp next?
Not next but it's on the list.
@@MechanicalFrog 😥
Why do we love the Stinger?
Because you get one free with every Phoenix Hawk purchased.
quite the deal!
I only used it for scouting/recon with the inevitable Flanking.
One fine day, as I was on a tabletop BT game, my opponent was fielding a Stinger.
My CN-9 Centurion removed its right arm an damaged its right torso.
I then made the mistake of ignoring it...
A few turns later and he'd used Death From Above on my already damaged CN-9, destroying my entire Left Torso.
The worst part was that he'd stayed upright afterwards and punched my Centurion, and the MG in the Left Arm got a Critical in my CT, damaging my Gyro.
Not one of my better days, but I did learn a lot!
Yeah once you take that arm and if the mechwarrior is willing to stay in the fight... it's never really over til it's over.
@@MechanicalFrog Exactly so.
Stiner IIC is possibly my favorite mech because the idea of the Ravens bribing these periphery hicks wifh tricked out 20+alpha Stingers is hilariousm
Ravens for the win.
Why oh why has CGL not released a light mech pack with a Stinger, Wasp, Locust and Valkyrie?
I'd buy 4
I would buy several.
I do enjoy watching light mechs skid for about a hundred feet when they fail to make a turn.
Kind of like the Raven in MechCommander after pissing off a Timberwolf?
It's not skidding, it's *drifting*
Weeee...
@@meshuggahshirt pretty sure it's a skid if it's on the center torso...
@@ARCCommanderOrarBelly-drift?
The Stinger is one of the many yardsticks we measure 20 ton and scout mechs by.
Accurate.
The STG-6MF is a lot like the Wasp-1W that has 6 small lasers. It's fun. As for the Stinger itself, cheap and reliable will always be useful
Oh we're going to get to the Wasp some day soon... *rubs hands together*
@MechanicalFrog lol I see the wasp as a stinger with a different head :-) I love both they are cheap and easy to use but do they deserve separate vids :-)
@@lukedudley5030 Ask a Trans-Am fan if they deserve a separate video from Camaros or even Firebirds. LOL
I once saw a STG do a DFA attack on an Orion and crush the cockpit. The player who ran the heavy caught a lot of laughter over getting his behind kicked by a Stinger run by a girl.😂
BT is a game that can be hard on trash talkers strutting their stuff. Instant karma can get them good!
Hah.
Kinda annoyed these aren’t available in the video games without modding. At least in Battletech 2018s case. At any rate as for Stories I was playing a modded game of BT with larger lance sizes and an expanded mech roster. I was doing a challenge run to see how well I could do using only Bug Mechs(Locust, Wasp, Stinger, Spiders.) Needles to say I lost people 😅
Anyway, one fight on Zathras to clear out pirates had a Hunchback pop up and I’m nervous as hell cause it could end any of the mechs in my lance. He kept trying to hit Medusa but failed every shot and Medusa gets behind him and melees his rear armor, fires off his MGs, and sets off the AC/20 ammo. Beautiful moment
Yeah it's a shame that the HG stuff really hobbled some of these old favorites for so long.
This mech needs more love. Such a good mech for what it is.
A fun little bug.
It's a cute little thing. I'm surprised the Stinger wasnt in Mechwarrior 5: wouldve been fun.
Yeah it's likely the legacy of the spat with HarmonyGold that kept it out.
There is a mod that adds it.
It's super weird there aren't any Stingers or Wasps in Mechwarrior 5, considering they're two of the most common 'Mechs in existence
The Wasp's probably the best, without a cramped cockpit, but the Stinger 3G is pretty great against other 'Mechs.
I think it's mostly just the lingering effects of the old Harmony Gold debacle.
There is so many IS mechs missing from this game lol
@@Commander_Nearsight of course there are, the cost of porting them all to vidya would be tremendous for a studio that is keen on reusing assets.
Yeah it really is a shame the HG nonsense went on as long as it did.
Yeah, because of the Harmony Gold lawsuits that were going on during MWO's early life, they didn't want to add the Stinger and Wasp. So they were replaced by the Spider in MWO, MW5 and HBStech. After the lawsuits were thrown out for good, there was no reason to add MORE bug mech to the games, no one is gonna buy a Stinger as DLC.
I had a group of five of OG Introtech Stingers and Wasps as NPC pirate reinforcements in a campaign mission I was running. These little suns of guns came zipping in, surrounded a damaged merc Stalker and lit it up, hitting internally several times. That thing went down, then the remaining three Wasps and now single Stinger circled a Highlander. They hit it in the head, so the Stinger figured it would try a DFA. Boom, hit, went internal, hit the cockpit with the crit and felled a mostly fresh Highlander. These four pirates saw that the battle was going sideways despite their success, so they retreated, but had taken our a pair of deadly assault mechs in just four rounds using luck and wolf pack tactics.
i played through the 'atlas v 36 light mech' scenario proposed in TRO: 3025 and the atlas got it head kicked off by the same stinger 3 TIMES
Story as old as time...
*remembers RT Bug Bug days*
Swarm attacks are terrifying but if they can't get to melee, they probably (?) won't do much.
I fear the many kicks though.
kicks maybe, punches, not so much.
@@MechanicalFrog gotta go to the Magistracy for punchy time
Honda Cub of mechs, fun, beats walking and you don't want to be shot at riding either of them
Hah, nice comparison.
Kerensky's 4th rule of warfare. A light mech in motion must stay in motion.
Sounds right.
Yes!
Love me a Stinger.
Not just great to train in, great to engage and destroy other light mechs, or harrass damaged opponents attempting to withdraw.
Classic light cavalry work.
Well said!
As a training mech the Stinger is pretty much perfect. Compared to other mechs in a similar cost bracket (Urbanmech, Wasp, Locust) the Urbie is too slow to properly train someone on how a mech handles, the Wasp's extended torso twist could make new pilots reliant on something they won't have with other mechs, and the Locust can't teach pilots how jump jets work.
I like the version you made too - it's like a Piranha, but with jump jets :D
I made my own version too: Light fusion engine to save weight while keeping costs down, 4 tons of armour, 10 double heatsinks, and armed with a pair of ER Medium Lasers and a Light PPC, giving the mech a bit more punch at range. Kind of like a smaller Panther, but with the speed to actually scout.
I considered doing an all machine gun design but it did feel a bit like a knock off Piranha.
I am loving the STG-5G in the Chaos Campaign which we are playing at my FLGS.
The combination of a bit of range and decent punch works for the role I use these in.
I think jump jet equipped lights are the perfect use case for PPC Capacitors, actually.
Hmm... going to ponder the capacitors for a bit.
@@MechanicalFrog That extra punch can make a huge difference, turning a light with PPC and Capacitor into a decapitation capable specialty mech for a very minimal investment of C-Bills.
One that happened to me and my friends was during a succession wars era campaign, where a Stinger 3G double headshot our Phoenix Hawk PXH-1, that was almost our first and only player character killed in that campaign, luckily their auto-eject kicked in just barely in time to save them
Wow... once in a lifetime.
C-Bills well spent on that auto-eject system.
I know it is technically a different mech, but it can fly, let me get these 3 separate tomes that explain it.
I love that these just explode page after page in the old books.
A lot of the old 'Unseen' designs are what got me into the setting, I'm old...
Once again great video and fun custom.
I respect the very vocal fans of the LAMs.
The Stinger is a simple but effective mech. It has a heat-balanced loadout, its fast, its mobile with jump jets, it can fight hard targets like mechs and soft targets like infantry. Its overall extremely cheap and one of the best examples out the counter-argument to "Mechs are rare".
Now a serious question: Would you upgrade a Stinger?
Stingers are so cheap and common, but also very limited in capacity even with upgrades. No way to cut down the tonnage of those jump jets. Still the upgraded models are surprisingly cheap. An Extralight Engine only raises in cost by about +50% instead of 2-3 times the cost in heavier mechs.
Squeezing out enough tonnage to get a Light PPC would be like upgrading from a handgun to a rifle. The Stinger C is a modest upgrade using clan weapons which is still a big upgrade.
I would like to get one with a clan medium pulse laser on it.
Ahh the stinger look at it as pretty much a trainer, scout and militia mech. Most of the time i generally prefer the wasp, but in an act of deperation had one join in with a thunderbolt against an atlas. The stinger kicked the atlas and caused it to fall over in dramatic fasion IE through armor crit the head and double crit the sensors. Ive seen a lot of randon stuff but this incident was most random.
There's just something so adorable about a 20 ton mech running up and kicking an assault mech in the shin.
@@MechanicalFrog normally its a curb stomp, but stinger got away with it and gave me a turn to pile on it.
Love it.
Aah, the mighty Stinger!
I have two in the Command Lance of my 1st Castilian Brigada / Nueva Castile Brigade.
Only the best for the periphery 😂
Rocking the big guns...
Really love your variant. It's a close up, nasty lil bugger:)
A nice little bug zapper.
Stinger is a surprisingly tough light mech in multi-mech fights, though I like the 5G variant, goes 7/11/6 and has a Light PPC w/Capacitor. While not that great in a straight up fight, having that flanking and hitting a heavy or assault in the back would make even them nervous of that light mech, especially if being engaged to the front.
Used well these little mechs are dangerous. Medium lasers on that much speed can be surprising. The increased lethality of latter eras hurts, but against soft targets.
At some point you're dead no matter what, so the lethality curve has its limits. Dead to 15 damage, dead to 20... doesn't matter.
Full IS: XL 120 , 10 SHS, TSM, 6JJ, ENDO, 4.5t Armor, 3 ER MLasers, Guardian ECM. (BV2 775)
Full Clan: XL 140, 10DHS, 7JJ, ENDO, Sm Cockpit, 4t Ferro, 3 ER MLasers, targeting computer, ECM. (BV2 1302)
Both of these could be nasty.
The stinger was my original favorite and still holds special place in my heart. The STG-3R has taught that a single medium laser, in the right place, can make all the difference.
Never underestimate the power of the medium laser.
Nothing stings as beautifully as a Stinger.
It has the speed and a little zap zap.
I agree with your stance on not starting players off with Stingers. imho the Shadow Hawk SHD-2H is the ideal starter 'mech, since you get a bit of everything weapon-wise, you can jump, and you don't have to worry about heat.
Back on the Stinger, I had some surprising success with it in a MegaMek campaign starting in 3025. I ran a lance of the STG-3Gs which I came to call "Cazador Lance" (as a reference to the mutated Tarantula Hawks from Fallout: New Vegas). Turns out that if I could get all four of them behind something, eight medium lasers shooting something in the back tends to kill whatever they're pointed at pretty quickly.
Huzzah for the Stinger! Now onto the Wasp, and finally the LAM in all it's glory!
Wasp is down the road a bit. LAMs, maybe.
Nice to hear about the plucky little Stinger. It's tricky how in-lore it's a training 'Mech but on the table it's a terrible thing to give a new player.
Also, I have to point out:
-Mentions that the Stinger was used to testbed new technologies.
-Fails to mention some Star League lunatic tried cross-breeding it with a jet.
*Stares in annoyance*
The Stinger LAM is a different chassis!
Also surprisingly decent, though 3 medium lasers is kinda piddly for 30 tons (still, a good use of 3 tons)
@@scytheseven9173 The LAM didn't need an in-depth review, just a mention of "oh, and they tried this, but that's a story for another day."
Also in 3025, three medium lasers and a jump that'll carry you across a whole map is pretty darn good for 30 tons!
I have to be careful not to rile up the very vocal and passionate LAM-fan community. Generally not aggressive, they can become quite insistent.
@@MechanicalFrog Insistent? I'm not insistent.
Am I? Am I? Am I? Am I? ...
To be fair, the "training" being referred to is the basics- how to move, maneuver, jump, and fire weapons without falling over or killing anything you don't want to kill. You don't need a murder machine for a job like that, you just need a fusion reactor with some limbs and a cockpit strapped on.
The good old stinger, a scout mech produced in such high numbers that despite how terrible and inefficient it technically is to field the secession wars could not get them all.
Kinda like the Cicada, but you can't get drunk and cram in something like an ac20 or ppc.
Great stuff, as always👍 I like the Stinger and when I have used it, it often gets overlooked, my opponent focusing on bigger threats…which gives it a chance to sting.👍
Operation Sneaky Sneak while they're busy shooting at the big stuff.
The important part of the stinger is realizing its the training wheels mech that if they break, they can probably even be taught to fix the damn thing. :)
It's also one of the mechs that I'd love to see in a serious story set deep in the succ-wars. It's raw, but capable, a story that copies tasking in combat similar to a Kiowa Warrior would be downright fascinating.
The life of the light mech pilot. Not often highlighted in BT fiction.
I may have to fix that...
@@MechanicalFrog Crawling your stinger up a hillside like an infantryman, jumping out with binocs to go the rest of the way on foot. Writing down grid square locations before hoofing it back into the cockpit that you gotta smush yourself down into like someone refilling a toothpaste tube.
All to roll up and scurry back down the hill to get to a high enough elevation to call back the information for artillery bombardment that you only get to see the secondary effects of from smoke and thunder.
Maybe even the occasional bit of really getting to use those hand actuators for something, fine control like that from an experienced pilot being used to even do something as 'routine' as emergency work would make for a fascinating story. These lighter mechs, especially the humanoid form ones, can tell some very interesting stories that larger and more destruction focused machines lack the ability to emulate.
Can an Atlas tell the tale of trying to rescue the inhabitants of a trapped building from fallen debris? Sure. But that's not why we have an Atlas in a story, its to dial in the violence.
A Stinger pilot racing against time to rescue a family as an assault lance moves in slowly to scour the area? That sounds reasonable and even realistic, human, and exactly like a nightmare that one of the first two succession wars would have had buried in it.
For storytelling tools light mechs are often under looked, they are the underdogs. They are the deathtraps, these old level 1 tech bug mechs have a flare to them that no other mechs really do. It could, and should be harnessed in storytelling.
No matter how much a Marauder on the cover sells better, if its not about money, then the skies the limit.
Never, ever, under estimate the RL15 Version. Early game in BTA 3062, on the Davion/ Taurion border; Me in my Wolverine" Oh look, a Stinger, how cute!" It then proceded to jump behind me, and unloaded all 30 rockets in to my rear armor. Lesson learned: if it's got rocket launchers, no matter the chasis, kill it, and kill it quick.
Good advice.
Definitely a mech I would have taken notice of in the 80s while flipping through the tech readouts at the Waldenbooks in the mall. Had I been paying closer attention at the time, I'd have been asking myself why it wasn't a Land-Air Mech.
Any mention of LAMs stirs a very passionate subset of the BT community...
I really loved that story at the start of the video. I never thought i could feel awe from a Stinger. Im sold.
Glad you enjoyed it!
A great piece of lore. A lot of people (Including myself) have the tendency to forget that a "light" 'Mech of 20 tons is only "light" by relativity. A gigantic articulated chunk of metal staring a green recruit in the face when they're on foot? It can still be downright intimidating.
Absolutely!
The short narrative story in the begin was a nice touch.
Thank you. I try to always be "value-added."
Strangely, I am a huge fan of the 3R. I know it's not a huge offensive powerhouse. I just have a weekspot for mechs with MGs.
Same. I like MGs more than I should.
I have hope that you'll be over 10k before Christmas. Keep up the great content and I have no doubt
We're on track to get there in the first few weeks of December, unless my house is hit by a meteor.
We love the Stinger because it's one of the first ten 'Mechs, from all the way back when BattleTech was still BattleDroids. We love it because it's modeled after the Macross Valkryes / Robotech Veritech fighters. And we love it because there was even a transformable version in the game.
Indeed...
I love this and the Wasp
They go together like PB&J
Ah yes, the Stinger, one of the very first mechs in the franchise, the artwork bought from the Macross drawings and later doomed to invisibility because of Harmony Gold.
I like the Chris Lewis redesign in the Project Phoenix TRO, but i get why many don´t like it. The new iteration by Antony "Shimmering Sword" Scroggins looks good, close to the original.
He effectively drew out the space fighter elements visible in the original work from Macross and gave the machine some bulk it didn´t have before.
Nice MF version, though it´s REALLY short ranged with this weapons layout. Which is not really a problem, the mech simply rushing in getting speed protection, striking and jumping out.
Yeah the MF really needs to be hidden or booking it to close quickly. No openings for lucky PPC or ER LL shots.
@@MechanicalFrog A true "high risk, high reward" style mech, so to speak.
The Stinger is the spunky little mech that could. It is a good light skirmish mech, and a good mech for spotting in game. But I would not worry too much with engaging with it. Still love it.
It's a fun little bug.
My original company commander's inheritance mech. Long after first his upgrades to the Marauder and the Highlander and later his death the Stinger remains as the final backup mech for my company.
Nice! That's quite the upgrade.
@@MechanicalFrog Indeed! Every company getting a random heavy was a Campaing plot point but the Highlander was the end point of a long self imposed quest
The Stinger 3GB.
Right from the Star League. It's actually odd that you don't see these recreated in later eras.
They're still being produced throughout the Succession Wars, Clan Invasion, and into the Dark Age.
Stinger, a decent scout that was pushed into WAY to many roles it had no business trying to fullfill. Like the other bug mechs its really hard to justify its usage beyond basic scouting. In any megamek game i had so far these guys wouldnt last long and where more like a mild nuisance then an actual threat.
Also the answer to how many Stingers there are is allways: Yes
Yes, and yes... yes some more.
As for scouting a vehicle is more efficient and expendable. Post 3050 a 20 ton mech has a very short battlefield life expectancy
@@jamesricker3997 A vehicle isnt allways more efficient considering that battlemechs can even traverse mountainous terrain, swamps and dense woods. Not to mention a scout mech has much more avenues of aproach (especially if it sports jumpjets), being able to climb steep hills and most importantly: they arent limited by fuel usage wich most scout vehicles of the 3025s to 3050s still relying on combustion engines, wich gives scout mechs a theoretically unlimitted operation time.
Theres a reason why in lore there are alot of cases of guerillia fighters being able to hold on for years after their planet was conquered by the enemy. Most planets also dont have any form of sattelite coverage or air force reconaisance. Hence the need for scout mechs. That and even the humble locust can still run havok on targets of opportunity like unprotected convoys or ammo dumps
@@jamesricker3997 Riptors9777 makes some good points, but I would also add that recon mechs also can handle water (from streams to oceans) and vacuum as well, both are beyond the capacity of normally ICE powered vehicles.
Plus the scout mech can act as a trap door spider in the enemy's rear by powering down until the main line passes it by, then powering back up to harass their supply lines, and even combat units rear flank.
Fun design, fun mech... though I wish the LAM version was still around (curse those Nova Cats!)
The description of it showing off it's maneuverability makes me wish desperately for a Mechwarrior game where the mechs are much more nimble. Having come into Battletech from Gundam and other Japanese mecha stuff, I remember how Battletech mechs and western mechs in general were compared to tanks while Gundams and whatnot are closer to fighter jets, and as much as I do love a good tank that put me off. Then I learned more, played HBS, read up on the fictional muscles used in these things... oh well, maybe some day.
Great video on a smol but important mech, keep it up!
I usually only put anti-missile systems on things expected to tank a lot of incoming fire. Brawlers, in particular, benefit heavily from them. Lighter units like the Stinger are unlikely to survive many missile volleys whether or not they've been thinned by AMS, so it's of questionable value there.
Their ability to be used as anti-infantry weapons in a pinch can be a decent deterrent, but the Stinger 5M already has a superior tool for that in the form of a flamer, so it's irrelevant there.
We are in agreement on the AMS thing. Unless they're a dedicated support unit running ECM/Beagle/AMS etc.
@@MechanicalFrog That's only relevant in tabletop if you have an APDS, though?
I don't know what that acronym means.
@@MechanicalFrog It's the RISC Advanced Point Defense System, which is the only type of AMS in tabletop capable of intercepting attacks targeting other units.
@@jeremysaklad6703 I have always played the AMS as usable against any one missile attack per turn so long as it's within two hexes of the intended recipient of the missiles.
My only experience with the stinger is in the battletech mod "roguetech".an early game coffin assigned to an expendable pilot to absorb damage. swiftly destroyed or sold to be replaced with a heavier chasis.
Bleak... :D
Though I have mentioned this in the Stinger IIC, my very first game of tabletop battletech was in a Stinger against my dad in a Wasp
Grudge match!
So for stingers swinging above their weight class. I have been in a campaign for 2.5 years in this track I had a stinger on the field. It was alpha strike I ran up on a marauder and hit roll location and get a 12.
Always fun when that happens.
The theory of armor on the stinger is taught mainly to bring their pilots some small comfort as they approach the battlefield. ;-) Also, great fun to make small upgrades and spring them as surprises on people. Like putting a clan-tech ER-Medium laser on an otherwise stock STG-3R. lol
It feels safe... it might flap in the wind, but when it's calm, it feels safe.
Take out the mg's and ammo for 4 small lasers and you've got something that works very well.
I really do not have any tales of derring-do using Stingers. Back in my I.S. days, I always gravitated more to the Locust (best!) These days for lights, I utilize either a Fire Moth, Kit Fox, Fire Falcon, Incubus, Ion Sparrow, or occasionally an Eyrie, depending on time line. My Faves being the fire falcon and Ion Sparrow, followed by the Incubus. Heh, shamelessly a Jade Falcon player, obviously!
The Ion Sparrow is great. I need to re-do my video on it...
My exposure to the battletech universe came from the MechWarrior games and books. I never got into the tabletop element. Most of the MechWarrior games use the post redesign models and the books don't always give the best descriptions.
Yours and other battletech content creators videos are often the first time I'm seeing the classic designs of mechs. Frankly, it continues to surprise me how many of the classic designs really were ripped straight out of Robotech and Macross. The classic Stinger is a dead ringer for Macross' VF1A Battloid.
Yeah the licensing mess was, a mess.
Stingers are my punishment assignments for my light mech pilots.
Stinger is a good scout. Cant say im too fond of it, but it's a cheap mech that works well in a scout lance. 2 extra MLs or a ml and some anti-infantry work is worth the 500-600 bv youre using.
Cheap, easy to pilot, lots of spare parts floating around... not too shabby.
Another fun watch :-) always loved the stinger its not fancy or game changing but it will do a job and easy to use :-) ive had a lance of stingers harry an atlas for ages jumping behind it and trying to get through its armour...it didnt end well with only 1 stinger left and a still functional if not battered atlas but god hearing the opponent moaning about how hes struggling a fight against just crappy stingers still put a smile on my face :-)
Glad you enjoyed it! "It's just neat"
Good ol' Stinger, the bug 'mech that gets no love, but is just about everywhere just the same! It has great lore too. (Love the in-joke of the Stinger getting sued for being so much like the Wasp! 😆) The -3R was used in 3 of the first four company scenario books released by FASA back in the day. I don't think Snord's Irregulars had one, but the Fox's Teeth, Black Widow Company, and Gray Death Legion all had 1-2 of them! I personally don't think of the Bug 'Mechs as being "starter 'mechs", they are a specialization requiring pilots who know how to use them well. A new pilot in a Stinger is one who happened to get one assigned to him/her. And William H Keith helped to remind us company builders back in the day that cool heavy and assault 'mechs were rare, and that our starter merc unit would feature many bug 'mechs.
STG-3R Old reliable, it's a heat-neutral scout that wears its "annoying bug" role with pride. Also good for reminding PBI to keep their heads down when the kings are fighting.
STG-3G Not as heat-friendly, but it has a little more armor and won't get offed by an ammo explosion. It's a viable option.
STG-C The Clans work their tech magic, and now the little Stinger has energy punch, CASE, and enough armor to take a hit or two! Definitely worth adding to any post-Invasion force.
STG-5M The 3050-variant recommended by AGOAMC. It's a great harasser and infantry killer due to the FT, and the AMS prevents death by missile salvo. (Especially with the new AMS rule.)
STG-5R Gimmick mech, but a clever commander can make good use of it.
STG-6R A true next generation upgrade! A zoom machine equal to a Spider in movement, armament gets upgraded, it can still do is role on the post-Invasion battlefield without instantly becoming confetti.
As always, the OG 'mechs have many variations!
STG-6MF Good use of Clan tech to help out and maintain the Scout purpose. It's still a problem since the ERSL salvo does enough damage to warrant notice, and up close the Clan SPL trio can result in a volley that can take out a light 'mech or vehicle. As laser boats go, it's a cutter, but one that demands respect just the same!
Just rewatching this video; I think you need to create an "Always Be Moving" shirt, which I would happily buy. :)
Light scout/harasser BattleMechs like the Stinger can be fun, but to my mind they often struggle to compete with VTOLs like the Mantis.
They each have their strengths, but I find a good VTOL can be a lot more impactful in most cases. It can provide vital reconnaissance in double-blind games, lock down areas by dropping infantry, or simply carry enough weapons to flank and cripple even assault 'Mechs in the hands of a skilled player. While I usually prefer OmniVTOLs like the Onuris (or a similar custom Omni-Anhur I made without knowing the Onuris existed, which I call the Mehit), a more fair comparison like the DI Multipurpose VTOL can still outperform most Stingers in their own niche.
This has even been acknowledged in-universe, contributing to the increasing prevalence of combined-arms formations at the tactical level in the Dark Age and later. BattleMechs simply struggle to play to their advantages without more armor than most Stingers have, especially if they can't knock out enemies immediately. This isn't just an IntroTech issue, either: the Fire Moth suffers from this even more heavily, at least in the games I've played recently.
I do like a good VTOL...
If you have played Battletech for any amount of time you have either willingly, or not, spent time in a Stinger / Wasp. While not what I would call a desirable mech, they do serve their purpose well, and allow you to squeeze in one more mech quite often, when you have reached what should normally be your battle value limit for your army.
As for personal variants, I suggest refitting with Endo Steel, XL engine, double heat sinks and either 4 ER Medium or 2 medium pulse clan lasers (balanced equally in each arm). Keep your speed up and you might get a few rounds of combat in, before you take that unfortunate career ending hit. But this mech defeats the low cost advantage of the standard Stinger / Wasp.
Another option is to use the Stinger as a TAG / NARC Beacon specialty mech, couple this with a few long range missile boats hidden nearby and you can have a devastating effect on the over confident, who see only the low tonnage scout as indirect fire LRM's rain death from their rear arcs using the increased accuracy of their NARC systems.
A personal favorite is to use multiple high speed hovercraft to deliver the LRM's, paired with a NARC Stinger staying just the safe side of a nasty little Vibra Bomb laden mine field (set to 30+ tons). The Stinger is bait to lure in the unsuspecting enemy, while the LRM's openly harass them into acting foolishly and pursuing the Stinger into a mech leg amputation field.
Oh you hovercraft people... :D
@@MechanicalFrog Yes well if my group would stop using oceans, lakes, etc. as their excuse for "that's the end of the map" then I wouldn't get such options in most every game we play.
If it wasn't hovercraft, then it would be aerospace fighters as I love high speed units that drop their ordinance and then run out before they can be destroyed, as missile carriers. I like to send in the missiles from different directions during the battle, not the same one.
Land based missile carriers (SRM or LRM) tend to be so slow as to be little better than turrets that can't be redeployed.
I wish I had stories concerning the Stinger and Wasp, but I don't. My first tabletop game gave me a Garm, a Hollander, and a Wolfhound. My Hollander lost its weapon in the first engagement and had to retreat from the battle. My Garm and Wolfhound had to waste shot after shot taking down a WoB Grim Reaper.
Those Grim Reapers... nasty characters.
@@MechanicalFrog you said it.
I've always preferred both the look and the loadout of the Stinger to the Wasp, even though I think that the Wasp is arguably the better machine, both on TT and in the lore.
The basic Stinger benefits from trimming half a ton of MG ammo in exchange for more armor. As tech progresses, swapping to SPLs instead of MGs retains anti-infantry capability while removing the ammo bomb and improving performance against other lights and light hunters.
I really like them both and have paired them up often. I briefly considered doing back to back videos but it felt like too much light mech. Have to mix things up.
I'm a fan of both the STG-3R and -3G, but I also like your STG-6MF (did I get that right?). My STG-7ISM used the -7S as a base, but changed it, of course, lol. I switched from Improved Jump Jets to Standard, switched over to Clantech for the internals, armor, engine, and targeting. Its main punch is a Medium Re-Engineered Laser, with 2 Clan Micro Pulse Lasers to back it up, and a Clan Light Active Probe for improved recon.
A nasty little scout you have there.
It is a little guy! Thanks for the video.
Thanks for watching!
Great video as always MF. One correction though: Tai-i Ravannion was a Draconis Combine commander who led the horde attack against the Fed Suns 7th Crucis, not as part of them.
Oops.
@@MechanicalFrog Consider your meal card stamped no dessert for a week 😉
I think the in-universe reputation of the Stinger 3G's heat is caused by the extremely likely tactic of jumping as far as possible and alpha-striking every turn, especially among green MechWarriors. That generates 12 heat, more than the 10 single heat sinks can absorb. That's hardly a sauna, but contrast it with the 3R, which is literally incapable of overheating under normal conditions unless the machine guns are rapid-fired.
On a related note, the Chameleon (specifically designed for training) is deliberately undersinked to teach new MechWarriors how to manage heat. Training on an STG-3R is unlikely to impart that lesson.
Ooof, just hearing you say something about knee actuators grinding is too soon after the day I had and how my body is telling me I ain't young by a long shot anymore... 😖
I can empathize.
We love it because it's not a Wasp with a SRM-2
But Wasps running around with Infernos is fun!
The Stinger is great on the battlefield. I love the dumb-dumb swarm tactics on the tabletop. 1 stinger is just a fast scout that can help target and take objectives.... A SWARM of 12 Stingers can take out an Assault Mech in a turn or two. And it's CHEAP in BV.
Doing the math on how many stingers you can run vs. a kitted out Dire Wolf.
@@MechanicalFrog BV or price? Highest BV for a DW is ALT C, at 3,610. A base Stinger is 359(BV2.O). So, 10 for 1 in BV.
Price wise is even better:
DW Prime-29,350,000 C bills
Stinger-1,615,440
18-1
Ref was Sarna and a calculator.
@@MechanicalFrog what's important is to also realize that you can swarm a Direwolf forcing it to stop. Allowing all of those Stingers to fire on essentially a standstill Assault Mech. They can only split their fire so many times.
Hello Frog.
The Stinger is used and abused by every faction, both in and outside the Inner Sphere. Even pirates use this Mech type.
Although I do like your MF variant of the Stinger, I would have chosen a bit differently for the weaponry. Instead of all the small lasers, I would have chosen Clan DSHSs and put in three Clan ER Medium Lasers instead.
Your version would be more useful in tight terrain, and against infantry, but my choice would be easier to maintain since it would have three of a single weapon's type and a relatively simple Mech layout. Laser in each arm, and one mounted in the Center Torso.
Should all three hit their target, that would be 21 damage for 15 heat. With Clan DSHS, the Mech can jump its maximum of 6 hexes and still alpha strike, and gain only one heat per turn. So, a turn of running every three or four jumps would see the Mech being 'heat neutral' most of the time.
Keep up the good work, Frog. I do enjoy your videos.
Oh! I forgot to mention my own uses of the Mech. Well, one memorable battle, I used a Stinger to DFA a Thunderbolt that was giving my unit a very hard time. Although only doing minimal damage, multiplied by the number of hexes moved, saw the Stinger mash the T-Bolt's head to mush. And everyone playing took notice. Odd how they didn't like Stingers getting into jump range of them, isn't it?
yeah the MF would shine in close quarters, urban or forest combat.
I'll never understand why they didn't change the standard STG-3R's armor.
Originally the Stinger had 64 armor.After some early rules changes it
was reduced to 48. Around the same time period they changed the ammo
rules and allowed MG ammo in half ton lots. If they would have used that extra
half ton of weight to add just enough armor back to the design so that it
could take 10 damage to a leg without automatically loosing it then the STG
would be used FAR more on the tabletop.
As is the Stinger is criminally underused and understandably so.
The Locust has taken it's place in most of the games that I've seen.
Who knows these things...
@@MechanicalFrog Yeah. I'm that old! I still have copies of the first 3 generations of
the sheets for the OG ten mechs. BTW-Alpha Strike isn't new.
An extremely similar system was in the first box set and referred to as the
"Basic" combat rules. The only real difference was that the range brackets were
contact,short,medium,and long. I prefer those range brackets to the current set up.
Modern Alpha Strike forces true medium range weapons like large lasers and AC/10s
to be used at the same range as AC/20s and medium lasers.
If they used the OG brackets with a slight tweak for extended range I'd switch to AS
for most games.
I think light mechs are the natural starting place. The video games almost always start you with majority medium mechs, which is a more balanced start, but it only teaches players that light mechs are just easy cannon fodder. They don't learn to respect the power that light mechs possess, or even to truly why you'd want to use them.
Start them off in lights, then let them earn mediums and heavies. In my experience, players are a lot better at judging the danger they face.
This is a fair argument.
@@MechanicalFrog Thanks for responding!
The base Stinger is one of those mechs I can't help but have a soft spot for, beyond the tabletop. In a basic tabletop game, mech-on-mech, it will struggle to do much of value. But in a combined arms setting, it is a superbly cheap infantry killer and spotter. And in-universe, it is a great example of how mechs have to exist for more than just bluntly fighting other mechs; it's a patrol unit, a recon asset and cheap, bulk-built way to garrison worlds, while frankly more valuable and potent assets are used elsewhere. It's the kind of unit that, realistically, has to exist for any nation and its military.
And beyond the base Stinger, the STG-6L holds a special place in my dirty Capellan heart as a great, and very annoying, little bastard of a light combat mech.
If you've read the Gray Death Legion books, it often highlights just how common and useful the Stingers and Wasps are in more than just fighting. It's pretty cool.
What does ABM mean here, avoidance something moment?
Always Be Moving?
@@MechanicalFrog oh that makes sense
Favorite house model, STG-3F. It's like a -3G but the second ML is replaced with a flamer. Cheap little pyrobug. Nothing fancy, nothing exotic. But the two cannon 3025 models are go tos for me.
If there's a use for it, go to town.
@@MechanicalFrog Well, towns are a use for it. Infantry. Crops. Anything stored like grains or petrochems. The world is full of things that burn.
Cool the stinger. love the stinger.
Hard to find any fault with the little bugger.
Stingers, in my own experience, are no longer cost effective once you start adding upgrades. It is a 20-ton mech that is going to get wrecked if it gets hit in a mech brawl. Stingers are for scouting, rear area security or raiding soft targets. Having an anti-missile system is nice, but your average planetary militia's LRM Carrier will overwhelm that, pulse lasers are the exception. ABM should be gospel for all Stingers and Wasps.
Yeah it can quickly get pricey on you.
What book was that intro from?
I wrote it.
@MechanicalFrog That's awesome! I would 100٪ read more of it if it existed. Great work!
I beat an Orion with a Stinger. That was fun.
The Stinger. One of the only mechs that can be bullied by standard infantry.
I wouldn't want to volunteer to run toward one with those two MGs.
It was with a stinger that I learned about Movement is Life, local tournament I walked and got blasted. I designed my own variant for you MF...Simple design that is intended to keep costs low. the 7X uses a slightly bigger engine and partial wing for a 7/11/9, composite frame, Dbl heatsinks and 2.5t std armor. The damage dealers were two Clan Imp. Med. Hvy. Lasers allowing for a 20 point double tap. The cost ended up being only 600k C-bills more (roughly 40% increase). Jumping for cover or rear armor shots will make this a mech a nuisance that needs to be dealt with!
Poor, poor Mercer Ravannion. The Kuritan officer singlehandedly responsible for bolstering the popularity of the Blackjack. That's a rough legacy to leave behind for a DCMS guy.
We can forgive him... in time...
"Armor is more of a theory..." :D
It's an idea... a... comfortable thought...
The stinger has a role and it's scouting, not engaging other mechs. See them, watch them, report back, fade and evade or if in a safe-ish area, watch and wait for your main force. Once they engage, you go around and get behind them. Try and attack their supply lines and gain more intel. A Jump mech isn't up long enough for anti air defenses and can avoid threats on the ground. It is good at aiding the swat teams, doing crowd control, being honor guard at official events or outside mech arenas. It is also good at the smash and grab thefts from banks and museums. It should only ever be punching down, all mechs should focus on either bunching down when possible or team up when you can't.
It's a shame so few roleplay mechwarrior/battletech. It wasn't meant to be a brain dead warhammer 40k alternative. Battle Values should be thrown out, 95% of the time you're not suppose to know what forces you face or buy mechs for a fight with battle values. You're suppose to be part of an army/merc unit and make do with what you can get your hands on. Imho the spirit of the game has been basterdized. I like Destiny a lot but it's butchered mech combat and focuses far more on the rounded rpg, it's a fun game. Remember your mech's role, stay in those boundaries and don't be a hero, heroes get more people killed then they save.
The Stinger is great for dealing with infantry and civil disobedience
More of a Wasp man, but respect given for the Stinger. Sad that HBS limited the choice to Locust.
Lingering effects of the lawsuit, I suspect.
What, no plasma rifle? Who are you and what have you done with the frog?
I have brought shame to the House of Frog this day...
Stingers okay looks too much like averatec fighter in battleoid formation. But you do know my favorite will always be the locust 😝
The Locust is rather adorable...
I love panthers personally but hey😄
Yeah, never appealed to me either.
I dig the Panther.
@@MechanicalFrog who doesn't love a miniature Vindicator?
@@MechanicalFrog we need a panther with a giant shovel STAT