I had poor teachers like that. I remember correct answers marked as wrong because "we haven't learned that way yet." So students are penalized for being smart! This was long before "common core".
Haha in Year 7 (age 11) I said to my science teacher something about pressure and he roared "DON'T TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE PRESSURE UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY MEAN!" and I said, "pressure is simply force divided by area" and he just stared at me like he wanted to kill me and moved swiftly on. Prick \(^_^)/
Oh, I remember a good one. Checking homework at class. Teacher tells me to go to the blackboard and do an exercise about calculating the perimeter of an equilateral triangle. In my mind I simplified the specific formula for equilateral triangles (side x3) to the one valid for all triangle perimeters (side+side+side). I start writing the formula. Teacher asks what am I doing and tells some shit kid to do it for me, using the specific formula she taught. Teacher tells me to write *50 fucking times* all the perimeter and area formulas we had so far. I spend till 2 a.m. writing that shit. The next day she forgot about it so I spent hours doing that crap for the fucking funsies :)
The fact that the kid used common sense to make the much shorter derivation of 5+5+5 shows that he clearly understood the problem *and* is probably not a lost intellectual case like the people that came up with this nonsense.
Well if that were the case why didn't the kid just write three times five? And I don't think he did understand the problem he understood the solution. The difference lies between thinking and knowing. Knowing things is good but without being able to think about unknown situations a person is lost. Also I have to point out that this can also be attributed to the fact that math is a language. Common Core isn't bad it's a different language. Think about the way that in English we put the adjective before the noun or the adverb before the verb. But in certain other languages it's done in just the inverse way. If you look at languages across the world you'll find that sentence structure varies handsome major ways though all of this has a tendency to affect the way a person processes information. I hope all this makes sense
1:19 um, no. The 5 comes first in the equation. So it’s 3 groups of 5, not 5 groups of 3. They’re interchangeable making the students answer correct. As someone else explained. It’s a law in algebra that AxB=BxA. 5+5+5=3+3+3+3+3. This type of schooling should be held accountable for some degree of fraud.
I think the logic is that once you get into algebra, the formatting would be 5x, or 5 sets of x, or x+x+x+x+x. But since it's not algebra, and both numbers are known already, either choice should be an acceptable answer.
@@mikeeljahosafats3231 The solution of transforming 5 x 3 into 5 + 5 + 5 is most efficient, and therefore it is the preferred solution. The child was correct. The teacher is a simpleton who should not be allowed in a classroom.
Ya man well if I order 3 hookers a piece for my 5 friends (me included of course), and 5 hookers a piece show up for 3 of us, someone who thinks like you is gonna be stuck with his hand.
I kinda thought so too. I tried doing the math in my head, I did it on a calculator, I got 15 both times. I would want to know since when did they change all that? What have we been learning this whole time?
You might try actually reading the grade level standards in math for, say, K-3 on multiplication and see when students are taught that addition and multiplication are commutative. Also, check to see where they're taught that 3 x 5 = 5 + 5 + 5 and NEVER 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3. You'll have a very long search in front of you, since that's not claimed in the Common Core at all. You're seeing the results of mathematically weak teachers following a teachers' manual from a commercially-published textbook series like robots instead of like teachers.
The fact that they made this thing to help children understand what's actually happeneniny and they end up saying that 5+5+5=15 is incorrect is INSANE. Stop confusing children
"Johhny has 3 apples, he eats 2 of them. Calculate the radius of the moon using only a paperclip and this information. You may not step outside between 7:00pm and 6:00 am for reference of any sort"
This is what I hate about public school. It's not about doing things YOUR way, exploring and discovering the right answer, or finding various ways to get the right answer. It's about doing things specifically THEIR way.
Not going to lie; this is training for what it's like in the adult working world. If your boss tells you to do a project a certain way and you deviate, your boss has all the cause in the world to fire you for insubordination. 👍😁😁😁
Common core is basically the education system getting mad at you for being smart and taking shortcuts while they're the ones being dumb and doing things in unnecessarily complicated ways.
No. common core is basically wanting a kid in Alaska, California, Maine, and Florida to learn the same thing at the same time. So by the time they graduate HS, they all "know the same info." It's the curriculum the schools choose that causes the problem. The state standardize test don't care bout the "shortcuts" used, they just want the correct answer. But the teacher is stuck with the book lesson, and grading on that scale. So if a lesson states that aXb=b+b+b+..+b and the student shows the work as a+a+a..+a, then yes they are wrong. It's along the lines of this question "use a blue crayon and a yellow crayon to show what happens when you mix the two colors." You have a blue, yellow, and a green crayon. You know the end result is green, so you just use that. But you are wrong, because you didn't follow the directions. Silly, yes. But it's testing a skill, not an answer.
the commutative property states that A + B = B + A therefore, by the rules of math, the given answer is correct. If the testers wanted the operation to be done in a different, specific way, the question should have been asked in a sufficiently defined manner so as to REQUIRE that the operation be done as intended. Math is a precise language, the fault was due to the writers of the test itself.
How come this comment has 34 likes when it's talking about mathematics being a precise language while stating the commutative property for addition when the video is about multiplication? I guess people simply aren't willing to read carefully enough and just "like" what ever "sounds right". Your first sentence makes it sound as if there is " THE commutative property" for every binary operation - which would be false. Thereby your very comment isn't precise enough even though multiplication does also have the commutative property.
Dominik Gerndt, because those who liked it are correct and you are ignorant. Commutative Addition and Commutative Multiplication are identical.. 4x3=3x4 and 3x4=4x3. Learn some math before trying to tell others their correct answer is incorrect. You could have googled this in seconds instead of coming here posting wrong information.
Douglas Frazier It seems the information provided in this video and available to the schoolchildren is different. Math is a precise language, and the correct answer is precisely 3+3+3+3+3. If the teacher hasnt taught that, then thats the problem right there. But what the teacher should have taught, is to ALWAYS do it the precise and defined way, at least in school, and then let the kids do their own way after school, if they wish. There should not be a sufficiently defined manner, if there is a need for it, then the teacher has not taught properly. If the teacher has taught properly, then it is the fault of the student who hasnt learned it properly.
Multiplication also adheres to the commutative property, it only doesn't apply when there is also a arithmetic function in the statement so (8+1)*2 is not equal to 8+(1*2) but that is why there's a formal order of operations that always applies absent parenthesis to indicate otherwise. He is correct, the commutative property dictates that a*b = b*a, understanding the commutative property along with when it applies is an essential tool in advanced algebra, discrete mathematics, trig, and calculus. You do kids no favors teaching them things that must later be unlearned. As for evaluating correctly to 4-5 verses 5-4 is a bad example. Subtraction written that way is short hand for addition using negative numbers the commutative property doesn't apply there because you're essentially saying -4 is equal to -5, the way 5-4 should be written is 5+(-4), now suddenly we see that the commutative property does indeed still apply to subtraction. 5+(-4) = 1 = (-4)+5 All three statements are indeed equivalent.
this is partly why I hated math in school and thought I was bad at it but when I took remote learning in college and the only grades came from in-person tests, I was able to get over a 100% in the class. Working by myself without someone telling me the processes I use are problematic, letting me explore online teachers offering different perspectives, and guiding my own homework by self-reflecting on the aspects I didn't understand changed the game
Multiplication is commutative, which means 5×3=3×5, so the grader was completely ignorant in taking any points off. This level of incompetence can't be tolerated in education.
Alexander Damjanovich But Alex, it was neither 5x3 OR 3x5! That was not what was done. If you see a car, and you say its a car, you are correct. If you see a red car and call it a blue car, you are wrong. You are talking about the wrong problem. 15 IS INDEED an acceptable answer. But if you turn it to 5+5+5, it is not. 5x3 is very specificly 3+3+3+3+3. It is very specificly wrong if you write it as 5+5+5. There is, and cannot be a mistake about that.
David Kinney so the way that was taught for generations, teaching multiplication tables, worked for many generations, isn't a proven way? Common core is all about dumbing down children.
tappedout300xc Holy fuck will everyone quit getting pissy about common core? Its wrong for the same reason you were wrong school for just writing the answer "You didn't show your work". Common Core standards are just trying to show kids an easier chain of logic to better understand arithmetics. It basically breaks down large numbers into bits so that adding to, subtracting from, dividing or multiplying these bits of numbers is easier than doing the same to the whole number. You do it every day when you make change with coins. Its just trying to teach numbers to be practical. So calm the fuck down about common core.
Coda ; Looks like your the one getting pisssy here . No need to get upset defending common core . It's not upsetting me talking against it . Now calm down and get yourself a Snickers bar .
Exactly, they're just giving up and not trying, because they are punished if they think because public school was never about making educated citizens, it was about making good little factory workers who just do what they're told
Michael Toso I certainly wouldn't want to drop learners off in the deep end, but students will have already learned that 1+2=2+1. If you say multiplication works the same way, nobody will be confused.
No videos here I am willing to let the teacher define how to teach. The video title says "Why is 5+5+5=15 Wrong on Common Core Test". In this case the lesson is "repeated addition" and the video ignores that.
Sadly that is what common core is doing. When I was growing up, as long as you get to the answer in a logical and efficient manner you were fine. Adding Five Threes together seems like the inferior option to me, since it takes longer. I was helping my sister in law with this crap a few years ago. I have seen the idiocy first hand. Assiging PEMDAS problems without explaining PEMDAS. Sorry for the angry rant, common core just really pisses me off.
TrackHead Studios It's the opposite of being a robot. Common Core and the teacher were checking for the understanding of a concept as opposed to accepting a robotic answer. Think before you comment. This is what is being taught: th-cam.com/video/E6yk9O43t3c/w-d-xo.html
Chilly Willy Give me a day or two to consider before I reply (I'll have to reboot my 'robot' brain first so I might employ "the understanding of a concept.") ;)
Chilly Willy Understanding of what concept? Multiplication is commutative so the answer was indisputably right. The 5x3=3+3+3+3+3 is used in English speaking countries, in Italy (for example) the preferred formula is the one the kid wrote, although both can be used (look it up on Wikipedia if you don't believe me)
You remind me of my grandma. She advocated for me when I was in 4th grade (I'm 25 now), The teacher was taking marks off my tests and homework simply because I wasn't using the formula she wanted me to use, even though the formulas I was using were acceptable, accredited, and still getting me to the correct answer. My grandmother taught me math, so I was doing math the way it was done in 1930's. Still the same answer. Fight for your kids folks!
Coggy Sprockets 5x=x+x+x+x+x if x=3 5x3=3+3+3+3+3.If I'm writing a list of items I'd write 2xapple 3xbanana not applex2 bananax3 Sharon Jones Using different methods is very important as it may be easier sometimes to use one method rather than another and one method could demonstrate higher understanding than some easier method. In one of my University courses, we weren't allowed to use one method unless it was specifically stated you could as it made the questions a lot easier.
dalek1099 when I'm making a parts list. I always list the items first and follow it with x2, x3, etc. It's how we doing it at work and it's the norm in my area. The item is more important than the number and that's also how the computer program displays it on our screen and print outs. My point is that either way is correct. As long as the answer is correct, it doesn't matter how you got it. Unless the teacher is grading them on the student's ability to learn the method. I've had teachers accept wrong answers as long as the method was correct. Never understood how that was acceptable in an engineering college.
Stephanie Joobern You really should put a silly face after it, because its really easy to confuse with a real opinion. Not that it will work 100%, as the net is filled with idiots, but it its easier to distinguish from the sea of ineptitude. Thanks.
If you ask me, it makes more sense for 5×3 to be the same as 5+5+5. To me, it's like saying you're taking the number five, and multiplying by 3. Or adding 5 to itself 3 times. Idk. It's hard to explain. All I know is that this is bull.
5x3 is 3+3+3+3+3 fundamentally in math. You cannot switch it to 5+5+5 because that is wrong. When you get to higher orders of math such as calculus and algebra you can't swap the order around just because its easier, it leads to an incorrect answer. Try multiplying matrixes both ways, you will end up with different answers. One will be right and one will be wrong. This is why typically higher order math tests such as my calculus exam less than a 1/3 of the points given on the essay questions were for the actual answer. The majority of the points were for showing how you got to that answer.
Garrett Davis I understand. I'm just saying it would make far more sense (imo) for the the first number to appear the same number of times as the second number. You know, just because of reading left to right.
Garrett Davis but, I suppose you can argue it's like English, were the modifier appears before the noun, so I suppose it's the same concept in math. Even still though, I believe in every day life, 5×3=5+5+5=15 is more than sufficient. In matrices though, I understand that it's very different, and of course it should be done properly then. But for mundane life, it just doesn't matter.
Garrett Davis at the end of the day, as long as you get the right answer, and you can get the right answer every time, that's what's important. No need to make things more complicated than they need to be.
You say it doesn't matter. But for the millions of engineers and other professions that require you to understand higher order mathematics it does matter. The point is to prepare you for a job you may need the skill for in the future. Just getting the right answer to 5x3=15 is never going to help you in life, especially when we have a calculator. It's understanding the concept of multiplication that will help you in life. Although I think the common core method is extremely stupid, this is one place they get it right. If you think the only thing important in math is getting the right answer, you dont understand mathematics at all. Not to mention if you think you can magically get the right answer everytime with this method in higher order mathematics, not only do you not understand math, you are probably very dumb. You can't just magically get every answer right every time. That is why we learn how to solve problems. Math is extremely straightforward, but at the same time becomes more and more complicaticated the further you get. Of course creativity is important in math, but if you can't even understand a fundamental concept of how multiplication works, you won't get further than calculus before you hit a wall. It's much better to teach students the proper way of multiplication early since its not any more complicated. Whats more complicated about it? You say its more complicated than it needs to be, but all it is understanding the order of which to multiply. The order of which you need to multiply matters at higher levels, and since its extremely easy to teach someone this way of thinking at an early age I believe it will help them since its no more complicated than the other way. However some of their teachings are more complicated and just confuse students. But teaching them that there is a difference between 5x3 and 3x5 is not complicated at all.
The Commutative Property is a fundamental of mathematics. a.b = b.a The 3rd grader instinctively knew this because it's so obvious, even if they don't know the name for it. By marking this answer wrong, the teacher is essentially teaching a child that the commutative property is wrong, which is fucking indefensible.
Your slightly incorrect. It is fundamental to the "common" number system. Matrix multiplication (for example) isn't commutative. That said, for the age level, the commutative property should be accounted for.
I wish I could hit like more than once, you beat me to the point. For simple multiplication such as this it is imperative that the student KNOW the commutative property, not be told it does not exist. This will certainly not prepare a student for later math classes, except to prepare them to fail. As an ME major I know the value of the commutative property, without it I could never solve any of the problems I get.
The commutative property guarantees the answer will be the same, regardless of whether it's ab or ba. However, 3x5 and 5x3 are not the same math problem. The former is "three instances of five added together", while the latter is "five instances of three added together". That principle is the basis of all further mathematics, and should always be taught before shortcuts such as the commutative property. Math isn't always about what the answer is, it's about the understanding the concepts behind the problems in order to understand how you arrive at the answer. You could tell a first grader "10 squared equals 100", and they could memorize that answer and spit it back to you whenever you asked them. Unless they understand WHY, though, then the entire thing is pointless. Instead of memorizing multiplication tables and spitting them back whenever asked, students are learning how to understand the concept behind multiplication before anything else. If anything is indefensible, its the fact that we used to teach simple memorization instead of teaching principles and concepts like we do now.
Mike L That is a linguistic approach to math, which is still wrong. Any problem (of this type) can be expressed either way (3x5 or 5x3) and communicate the same "story".
You're correct, if the "story" you're referring to is solely the answer. 3x5 and 5x3, although they yield the same answer, are not the same problem. Even still, the point is completely moot in relation to the story presented in the video, since the problem didn't ask "what is 5x3?", it asked the student to use the repeated addition strategy to solve 5x3 (source: the paper itself i.imgur.com/KtKNmXG.png). Using repeated addition, 5x3 is not 5+5+5. It's 3+3+3+3+3. The student failed to correctly use the strategy being stressed in the example, as is further explained by the student's other error visible in the image I have provided. Common Core stands, the student was wrong from both a conceptual perspective as well as the practical application of the concepts he/she was supposed to be using.
I'm in the construction business and I work with alot of guys who use calculus and geometry on a regular basis. You guys are going to be mad when I say this, but they all use calculators. Nobody's promotion is based upon "showing your work" but your termination might depend on wasting time doing that.
Not when a and b are matrices, so "common" is misleading. The idea is to teach kids math literacy, not arithmetic: the question is about what the statement says, not what it evaluates to.
Let's take that thinking and put it towards language. In language, we're constantly evolving it to make it easier to communicate with each other, and this has resulted in things like slang and text-speak. With language, you're taught the proper way and people come up with the slang and such themselves, and maybe eventually that becomes the norm. So now tell me, how is that any different than with math? You learn basic language components and structure early on in your life because it helps to have when you get to the more complicated parts of language later on, and that's the same with math. These are still the basics, and if you change the basics because it's easier for them now, they're going to have trouble later. You can still teach a kid that addition and multiplication problems can have the numbers switched and get the same answer, but letting them know that there's a reason later on to keep it consistent is important.
A lot of people probably did say calculus is unnecessarily complicated. Proving a limit is much different than, "close enough". Have you ever given calculus a try?
I hope ppl realize that the way Newton and leibniz did calculus was completely different. Newton’s version of notation was harder to read so we didn’t adopt it.
@Become upset. Common Core IS actual math to produce flexible problem solvers, not just training mindless human calculators! Strange classwork stimulates thinking!
As someone who was always good at match and did lots of it in my head and therefor gave points taken off for not showing my work common core seems like a nightmare.
Failed two division tests shortly after being placed in the 4th grade because I did short division not long so therefore I must have cheated to get the correct answers. I argued with the teacher, but she wouldn’t believe me or give me a `pop’ quiz to prove it. I wasn’t a mathematical wunderkind, but I’d transferred from England to Ontario Canada and (at least) at the time the school system was more advanced in England (Ontario wasn’t even doing cursive writing by that point). I was bored for the next two grades.
5+5+5 is simpler to solve. 5 is a simpler number in a base 10 numerical system, and there are fewer numbers to add. Someone should deduct this teacher from their job.
Congratulations Sadpants, Atel and Theo. You just proved your ignorance of mathematics. 5*3 is read as 5 groups of 3 which is why the student was to write 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 15. This distinction becomes important in matrix algebra, but since y'all haven't taken matrix algebra you don't know this. Your picking apart the curriculum which was written by people who actually know WTF they are talking about. They are teaching kids this so they'll have this idea down beforehand. 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 15 but the problem wasn't 15 groups of 1, but 5 groups of 3.
Sadpants McGee no it's not the teacher. She was told to teach in this common core way so if she marked it right (which it is right) she would be doing her job wrong. It's the common core method that's stupid
This is why I hate common core. This kid was just thinking for themselves and got marked wrong because they didn't do it how the teacher wanted. This somewhat happened to me in Algebra 2. We took a test and when we got it back I had made a 40 on the test even though I only got one problem wrong. The teacher said it was because I didn't work it out how she wanted me to.
At least it's not as bad as computerized testing: *Sorry, you got the wrong answer!* *You answered "15" - The correct answer is "15"* *Review your working and find where you went wrong.*
In high-school, I was nearly expelled for refusing to 'show my work' when factoring polynomials. I had developed a technique where I could do in my head, and it always worked. In Mr Takahashi's math class, everyone showed their work. I tried to 'show my work' by using my technique, but he couldn't follow it. "Do it the standard way!" The teacher was old-school, so my refusal was a discipline issue, not a mathematical one. I made an appeal to the school counselor to prove my point. They tested me by having my teacher write problems on the board, and I was to call out the solutions. He wrote over 250 problems, including some that were deliberately badly formed, which I caught as well. At one point, I was calling out answers as quickly as he could write the problems. He was mad. He didn't know how I was cheating! I had to present my technique to my math teacher, a school counselor and the Vice Principle that I had learned to factor in my head and to prove it, I walked them through the process. They all understood the process after that, and the VP thought it was a 'clever trick'. After a few more examples, my teacher just left the room, silently. I was excused from showing my work, but I still had to pretend to do it, for the sake of other kids! BTW, the 'trick' is to ignore some of the terms, and look for patterns of sums, differences and products of the whole numbers. If there is a 13 and a 42, then 6+7 and 6*7. You also know that everything is positive, as 6 + 7 = 13. If you had -5 and a -36 then 4-9 and 4*-9 is afoot. That -5 is telling us about the difference of the terms, the -36 tells us that one term is negative. 4+-9, 4*-9 = -5, -36. Sums, differences and products give clues as to the order of the terms and their signs. I was told this was cheating until I proved that it works.
I was put off maths for years by a moronic teacher because she always marked me down even though I got every answer right just because I layed it out vertically and not in a horizontal line like she wanted. Back then I thought "I got it right and its still not good enough, I tried so hard to get everything right, I'll never be good enough she hates me" because that's how little kids think. It ended with a massive argument between my dad and the school Turns out the only reason they could come up with was it 'wasn't policy to teach students to lay it out vertically until year 4' my dad was furious.
Thats ridiculous, it strips away the inventiveness and creative aspect of mathematics from a young age, math is meant to have multiple forms, many problems have multiple proofs and ways to solve them and you shouldnt be restrained to one way.
I didnt grow up with common core but I had a teacher in middle school who took half points if you didn't write it out exactly how they taught you and I was already struggling with math. I got a 50 because I forgot a step in her method meaning all my answers were right. If you're reading this ms.laird, screw you
loradreamer12 I had a similar issue in that I was naturally great at math but kept failing because I had a hard time writing out all the steps, or not as well as they'd want me to. I'd see a problem and just _know_ the answer in my head but noooo, I gotta write it out. Sometimes trying to write it out would result in me fucking up at some point during the process and I would have been better off going with my instinct lol. Man, fuck those teachers. At least I answered it right.
kubush I know it has held back students because of it. You're the idiot here defending this broken program. You probably have a kid that relied on it while all the smarter kids were passing grades, but couldn't advance because yours was falling behind.
Florida did so to the detriment of Florida's kids. Not conditioning kids how to more easily handle more andvanced math can't be good thing. this question was *not* testing the kids comprehension of the commutative properties of multiplication in the simplest of terms, if the event it where about that both answers would have been correct
JCaesar That not how common core works. Common core is actually a higher set of standards than what states had before. You call it a broken program yet you have no clue what it is and how it functions.
I was watching scenes from Fullmetal Alchemist, then a video about Star Wars' Imperial March played with a pencil, and then I ended up here... weird, right?
A teacher, wanting to get some paperwork done during class, gave his pupils the task to add all the numbers from 1 to 100 together. Before he could sit and open his paperwork, believing that they had enough work for the whole hour of the class, a single boy said: "Five thousand and fifty". The teacher asked how did the boy know it so quickly. The boy explained that by adding the first and last number, 1 + 100, he'd get 101, by adding the second and second to last number, 2+99, he'd again get 101, and that there were 50 such pairs, resulting in the total 5050. That boy was Carl Friedrich Gauss, a genius mathematician who has over 100 different things named after him. The pile of crap that is the Common Core would send Gauss home with a "WRONG!"... W-T-F, America.
Awesome example of thinking outside of the box. My first math professor once said to our class "There is more than one way to get to Seattle." Math is the same way. As long as the answer is correct it doesn't matter which route you took.
my math teacher added to that the limitation to only use the ways that produce the correct answer all the times and not the ways that produce the correct answer only some of the times. He would give you the warning that his test will include the math problems that would require you to use the methods that are universally applicable for the same type of problem. He wouldn't downgrade harshly if there was usage of non-universal methods, but he's there to teach you to cope with all problems and not just the exceptions.
Magnus Anderson one function with 3 elements and another with 2, you're comparing apples with oranges, congratulations for not recognizing 2 different type of problems to solve
+AwoudeX you could factor it if it was nx-1. That was my point however, if your teacher wants you to use a solution that works all the time, you wouldnt be allowed to factor or use other solutions that make it a lot easier but dont always work.
Jorge Gaytan Ask Google to show you a picture of 15 apples in groups of 3 and 15 apples in groups of 5 and tell if they look the same. When you add the both up they'll equal 15 but they are not the same.
Something Despicable were talking about numbers dipshit not food. When the question involves food then you apply the appropriate logic. Geez.. it's not that fucking hard to understand that this teacher that told the kids they were wrong shouldn't be teaching.
Hateful_Jac hmmm this got me thinking about the times l got the right answer but not the procedure. I only have 1st year of medical school and l remember clearly the advice: "listen carefully and only answer what they ask, nothing more nothing less".
Hateful_Jac this is about common core jac not maths or numbers, the way you solve it is more important than the results, learning maths for the sakes of maths is the dumbest reason to learn it, i obviously learning it for the practical use of it not just because it's a friggin maths, that's why so many people hates maths because they don't even know what use they have in their life
Fester Blats, third graders? You are saying THIRD graders? Are you serious? Since when does it take more than 2 years of math to get past addition? That's fourth month material, first year. Usually around that time, children are also supposed to know that the operations of multiplication and addition are order-independent - if they aren't told, they will recognise that themselves within months. And well, thing is, the language itself is ambiguous because the operation is commutative. "5 times 3" does not really correspond to any particular real-world experience. It could mean "5 groups of 3" just as well as "5 repeated 3 times", with latter being merely rearranged to better correspond to mathematical notation, and linguists don't even know for certain which it is. Indeed with non-commutative operations, it's kind of common that the first operand is the primary one, while your (and teacher's) interpretation suggests that second operand is the primary operand of multiplication. Another point to be made is that the student is being punished for being resourceful while being correct, because adding 5 three times is easier than the other way around, and punishing that seems like a terrible idea. School is supposed to develop universal skills, like creativity, critical thinking, logical reasoning, ability to combine these skills to gather and process data and arrive at new conclusions. It's often observed that it doesn't succeed at doing this, that often it quenches creativity and has you memorise an ever growing set of recipes that allow you to handle specific situations, but not even slightly different ones, recipes that are quickly forgotten once they fall out of use, leaving the person rather helpless. If you were looking to see why that might be the case, you have a real tangible example right here. You might object, that if we don't punish creativity here, you're not gonna know whether they understood that not all operations are commutative. But that's the wrong way to go about it - you just need to test that separately by including test cases where they would mess up if they failed to grasp that.
Fester Blats Kids should understand that 3 x 5 is the same as 5 x 3. It's a property of multiplication that doesn't occur in division or subtraction. Teaching it this way would be more confusing, and could easily make some student think that the order matters.
The bottom line here for me is that if teachers want their students to adhere to "grammatical style" in mathematics, they need to be providing the style guide.
Far too many teachers have such a poor understanding of the subject(s) they teach that any question that isn't explicitly answered in the book for them they can't answer themselves.
When I was in college, all my math professors encouraged us to compare our solutions to the homework problems assigned - for the reason of exchanging ideas, and finding betters ways, or more efficient solutions for solving problems. By doing so, my classmates and I saw creativity in our different approaches to solving the same problem. Come midterm, and finals, we were better equipped to take those tests. Common core math destroys the creativity needed, along with intelligence that is needed for real world applications of math such as engineering, and actuarial science.
I was watching the Cinema Snob review a porno spoof, and this was in my recommended. Maybe if it wasn't *almost TWO YEARS OLD*, it'd have some relevance. Google must be practicing necromancy or something, raising vids from the dead and cramming them into our recommended lists?
I can't imagine being a 2nd or 3rd grader who struggles with math, dreads the class, and comes to a correct answer only to be told "well you got the right solution, but the answer is still wrong." How discouraging that would be.
Traditional education focus is on learning & proving mastery of LESSONS! Have we forgotten when in the past kids were require to showed their work when doing the 'standard' methods we seem to remember? They wanted the method of the LESSON even then! How can new knowledge be learned when ignoring these fundamentals?
Because of reflective property, 5*3 = 3*5. The students should not have points reducted for something as trivial as "it's five groups of three, not three groups of five."
Jiggleworth22 also, its really ambiguous to say that 5x3 is "five times three" because it can also be "five multiplied by 3", also it is important to point out that outside of US (idk if in UK its also the X times X thing) 5x3 is said as 5 three times, which makes this whole thing even more stupid.
Adirbal And lets not forget the most important fact. That 5x3=(5)x3. Because x and / apply to the whole, they always modify everything that comes before them, not after.
Adirbal I'm Australian and I was taught 5x3 would be 5 multiplied by 3, not 5 lots of 3. I think that was wrong though (my primary school teachers sucked at math) because once you get to algebra 5x means 5 lots of x, not 5 mulplied by x. If the notation is consistent then the first number has to always be the multiplier (ie the number of groups).
lancer D 5x is no different. 5x meaning 5 x's and 5x as x 5's is the same. Because multiplication is commutative. The reason we take it as 5 x's is because it is an unknown, so we cannot write the other way around since we do not know how much x is.
5x3 = Five *multiplied by* three. You take 5... and multiply it by 3. That means 5+5+5. What is 5/3? It is 5 *divided by* 3. Although both solutions to the problem in the video are correct, no matter what the teacher says. Simple multiplication and addition can be done either way, but not division and subtraction. Telling a kid no early on then yes later is just stunting.
Fester, this kid's test still should not have been wrong. If anything it shows that he knows that it is commutative. I don't know about everyone else, but when I was young we all knew that you could interchange the numbers.
5 is being MULTIPLIED BY 3! 5 is being made larger 3 times! Teacher is WRONG! No wonder anyone puts their kids in private school if they can afford it and most wish they could! Or home teaches or wish they could!
5x3=3x5 Proof: 5x3=3+3+3+3+3 =15 3x5=5+5+5 =15 5x3=3+3+3+3+3=15=5+5+5=3x5 Therefore 5x3=3x5. Is there really need for proofs to explain as to why the kid is correct? Ffs
The reason is actually pretty simple. Because (at least for me) multiplication and division are leaned around the same time, teaching young children that you can swap multiplication, but not division,can be confusing. Also, the simple term for 5x3 is "5 of 3", which again, could cause confusion in young kids. I see where you are coming from, but if you take into account all factors, you can see why it was done
When the hell did our education system forget that in multiplication it doesn't matter what order the numbers are in, same with addition. That's just how the student interpreted the problem (and they're not wrong). It would be a different situation if the problem was meant to solved in a specific way (and in this case that's just incredibly stupid), but it wasn't. The problem was asking what is 5 x 3. I'm glad I dodged this system by a few years.
French hFs the mark was deducted in a question designed to check understanding of how to read the multiplication operator left to right - the entire purpose of that expanding step. By teaching students to read it in one way, we're laying the groundwork for them to understand distributivity easier.
because it DOESNT MATTER. They arent teaching them just how to find the correct answer, but how to find it the correct way within the curriculum. you cant teach new stuff if they arent doing old stuff correctly.
having an actual structure to learning, instead of just memorizing a multiplication table is better. period. using your brain to think instead of just memorize answers leads to better educated, more intelligent students. its the OPPOSITE of what youre describing. instead of indoctrinating them with the answers without telling them how those answers are arrived at, its teaching students to THINK and process the information rather that regurgitate an answer. sure, there is a framework and it seems stupid to mark them wrong for arriving at the wrong answer the wrong way, but teaching people to arrive at an answer in a way that the next lesson builds upon, and the next lesson after that, etc etc leads to, like i said, a better education. no, its not the way you were taught, but american schools suck. they do. we are trying to improve that, and a more structured, more intuitive system is what other countries who have far better educations systems have been using for a long time. This really speaks of American prejudice and xenophobia. this is different than what i know, i dont understand it, therefore is it wrong. no. you are wrong. your hair-brained tinfoil hat government conspiracy malarkey is indicative of this.
Disagree. Teaching a student what the question actually _means,_ and teaching the student that asking the question a different way can mean getting to the answer a different way is immensely valuable... and will SAVE them a lot of grief and frustration when they get to much harder concepts down the road. Teaching students _how_ to think and not just _what_ to think is far more "efficient" than just telling them, as you apparently would, that 5X3 is the exact same things as 3X5. Had you been given an "efficient" education when you were younger, you'd already understand this. We're trying to help these kids avoid thinking in circles like you're doing when they're your age.
Efficiency... Interesting you use that word as America's education system is anything but efficient. Yes, you're right that it "teaches" students how to think, but that's the problem. It TELLS them how to think, not letting them apply their own methods to solve issues. (Being a CSE Major, I have found my own education has crippled my ability to think through solutions.) The education system is so normalized that students who don't learn in a conventional environment are lost, just like I was. I wasn't a good student, not from lack of trying but because the system I attended forced a singe learning method on me that was highly inefficient and extremely stressful for both myself and my father. It's a system that forces everyone into a tiny box and cuts off the bits that won't go in or don't fit, and it's not a good system. It never was, but that's the way it's been and that's reason enough to keep it around in the eyes of politicians and boards of education. I'm also finding as I've grown older that people think kids are stupid, which isn't true. Not in any sense of the word. In fact, they're smarter than most adults but the "old guard" (meaning adults like you and I) actively, and sometimes intentionally, stifle that intelligence. Everywhere I look, I find some mention about how kids need guidelines, rules, and strict enforcement. How students need to adhere to a set of standards and anyone not meeting them is not only lost in the dust, but considered a complete dunce. Like learning a different way or having a different method from "the norm" is somehow a mark of shame or rebellion against a system that is, in honesty, completely broken. Kids aren't stupid, they're just inexperienced. Maybe we should treat them like that instead of labeling them "dunce" until further notice. Back to the immediate matter: 5x3 = 3x5, this is simple math equivalency. I ask you this then: is it more efficient to think "Oh, it's 5 groups of three" or "three groups of 5 = five groups of three, so I can do three groups of five and get the same answer." Do remember: This is math, not English. It shouldn't have been marked wrong, despite what "educators" think. If they wanted the student to think of it a different way, then make a note or tell them, but don't mark a right answer wrong because the method wasn't what was expected. In Computer Science there are literally hundreds of ways of doing one action. Some long, some short, all are considered right because they work. Math should be the same way; If you have a method that works, use it. Rome wasn't built in a day, nor by politicians. P.S. Sorry for being wordy, but this is something I'm rather passionate about.
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Scors4 Couldn't agree more! But I think that's changing, maybe in the next 20 years or so we'll be changing how children are schooled. The governments won't change it, of course, but the private sector will improve education methods, and then public schools should follow suit.
The first explanation is just as valid given the commutative property, which they also teach in common core. Another case of the teacher only having a superficial understanding of what they're teaching.
Ha! My wife was a teacher for 40 yrs. She used ideas and methods now known as CC for 40 yrs! It all comes down to learning young kids to play, have fun AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Some elements here are from an early stage, they will all learn to add multiply etc in more normal ways, but hopefully with a better understanding. A better understanding than parroting. An understanding of how to solve problems that they never have heard of before. Their understanding and their fantasy.
The SYSTEM of teachers defining lessons & grading AND expecting students to learn & prove mastery of the lesson is TRADITIONAL, NOT PART OF Common Core!
The system described is FUNDAMENTAL LOCAL teaching policies that define lesson & grading where: students learn & prove mastery of lessons! WHY IS THAT SO STRANGE?
The video refers to TRADITIONAL LOCALLY defined lessons & grading that existed for decades BEFORE Common Core. This lady hasn't bothered to fact check before commenting!!
Teaching multiple ways to reach the same answer is effective teaching. However, penalizing a student for thinking differently than they are told to think is outrageous. I'm so disappointed that this is what teaching has become. They are encouraging group think. Can anyone see how dangerous this is!
John King David Except that it wasn't poor or sloppy. It was completely reasonable, saved a shit ton of effort, and led to the same answer. We're not talking about Calculus AB or nuclear physics, this is multiplication and addition.
John King David I think you're the one with the head up your ass. Notice that the problem is 5 multiplied BY 3. The inverse would be 5 divided BY 3. I actually taught pre-calculus for five years and before that, 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade maths in somewhat random order (due to a lack of teachers at the district I worked for) for a good eight years, so I would recognize this stuff is absolute insanity. No kid should have to be punished for actually using the right formula, much less using AN EQUIVALENT FORMULA. If the formula gets you the right answer every time and it's simplified and thus nets less possibility for mistakes, USE IT, or you're only making things harder for yourself. EQUIVALENT FORMULAS ARE INTERCHANGEABLE. That is why they are equivalent.
Perhaps the correct terms are 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3, however, it is also important to teach kids about how it doesn't matter what order you do mulpication in, since it will always be equivalent. I don't agree with marking it incorrectly, especially since (judging by the difficulty of the question,) the student is in elementary school, not a university. Simply marking a test as 'incorrect' does not teach young students anything, other than that no matter how correct they were, they will never succeed. Trust me, that is not a good thing to be thinking.
Grey the Wolf, they do also teach the commutative property, but the purpose of this question was to make sure students understood that "five groups of three" and "three groups of five" are two different things. The actual question stated "Use the repeated addition strategy to solve: 5x3" but that part was deliberately left out of this video. This concept is not too difficult for kids to understand... Here's an example: 5 cupcakes x $3 per cupcake = $15 total 3 cupcakes x $5 per cupcake = $15 total Both of these equations have the same total result of $15 so they are commutative, but they are clearly two different things. In the first case you will get 5 cupcakes and in the second case you will only get 3 cupcakes even though you paid the same total of $15 for cupcakes. It's a matter of understanding that the two groupings are fundamentally different things, not just getting a final result. Also the teacher did put the correct answer along side of the student's answer when grading it. So the teacher didn't just "mark it wrong" with no instruction on how to fix it.
Tekkerue | If the question was simply 5 x 3, and not in context, then I don't think it should matter. If it was in context, such as in the cupcake example you gave, then I understand the grading. However, from what I heard in the video, the question was out of context, and shouldn't be marked as if it were. Even if it were in context, I would give my students a half mark if they got to the right answer.
Grey the Wolf, but if mathematics isn't taught as it is applied in the real world, then what good is it to teach mathematics at all? Math doesn't exist in a bubble and the concepts are exactly the same whether you are working with plain numbers or with real situations. "Five groups of three" is still different from "three groups of five" no matter what context you put it in. I think this mindset is a major reason why so many people feel disconnected from mathematics and often view it as "useless". Mathematics should be always be taught in the same way that you would encounter it in the real world and not as something different, otherwise they are just meaningless numbers on a page that serve no real purpose.
It's actually bad logic to read 5x3 as 5 groups of 3 instead of 5 three times. Its backwards and creates longer more drawn out work that in a STEM field of work would make you inefficient at your job. Whoever designed this course of teaching math failed math in school and didn't understand equivalency in solutions. How are children going to simplify equations as they get into higher maths if they're told they're wrong doing it when they start? Some discrete math for you: 3+3+3+3+3 = 15 = 5+5+5 therefore 3+3+3+3+3=5+5+5 so not only is the teacher wrong as their logic says 3+3+3+3+3!=5+5+5 (!= is not equal to in CS) which we just mathematically proved. It's just conformative in the box thinking being forced onto the youth of today.
I don't think you understood the point I made. It can be read both ways, but writing 5+5+5 is faster and easier which for a STEM field such as Computer Science. Minimizing the level of effort and optimizing code logic is a frame of mind that saying 5+5+5 is wrong because only 3+3+3+3+3 is right is a terrible thing to teach. The student will have to unlearn the BS they were taught as children to think in a manor that would benefit them in higher learning. So why bother teaching it like that? But then again there is way too much wrong with what and how children are taught these days and it is shameful overall.
This is getting overblown, but the kid was technically wrong in his proof. Yes, I'm well aware of the commutative property, but 5 * 3 reads as "five times three" which means "three, five times."
"Technically"... the student is also "technically" correct in their proof. Discreet math would teach you that when proofs are equivalent they are interchangeable. 5x3 does in fact equal 3x5. You can't say technically because that is a double edged sword. The argument is they were technically also correct. It's not getting overblown it's actually a symptom of a larger issue with in the box thinking where children are taught not to think for themselves and to conform to a way of thinking that doesn't make sense. We are now in a society where children are taught our society is sexist and racist purely because of the past. That a person's color and gender determines who they are and not their actions of the present or future. They are then demonized and punished for thinking outside that box and it starts with simple things like this. You can call this one example making a mountain out of a molehill but it isn't. It is pointing at one of the many stones that mountain is made of.
The kid proved the wrong problem though. The answers are interchangeable, but 3 sets of 5 is not the same thing as 5 sets of 3. Yes, the commutative property is very important and tends to make solving problems quicker, but again, he solved the wrong problem.
I'm thankful that this BS doesn't exist in Canada. The people here understand the term "efficiency". The school system here is top notch. I'm actually INTERESTED in my high school courses.
This seems to be teaching kids to not look at a problem from various perspectives that can achieve the same result. Thus, if there is an easier method to solve the problem you cannot use that method because it is wrong, even though it solves the problem. If you want to teach kids in precision and proper methodology, teach them a programming language. Nothing convinces you more about being accurate and precise than having to debug code and finding out that in addition to using improper command words, or instructing the program improperly, you left out the colon at the end of several lines. Common core appears to be more in line with brain washing rather than the dissemination of proper mathematic knowledge and skills.
It's wrong because the actual question stated "Use the repeated addition strategy to solve: 5x3" it's (5) x (3). and 5+5+5 is (3) x (5). It's not the "answer" that is the solution, it's what is the proper annotation.
Dan Brioli or they're making the whole thing up. First of all there's no such thing as a "common core test"; common core refers only to a set of proficiency standards, not any particular curricula. Secondly, this smacks of "aren't you OUTRAGED at this?!?!" that's usually a dead giveaway the storyteller is presenting an outright lie or very specifically edited facts in a heavily misleading direction so as to be, effectively, a lie. Until I see the actual test paper and hear the actual teacher's side of the story I'm inclined to believe it's fake.
Back in the 80s in Australia we just ROTE learnt the multiplication tables up to 12*12. If you had to use addition to solve anything within that range, you hadn't memorised the tables well enough.
And thats why they dont list individual item prices or list tax separately. right? This is still stupid, because multiplication is commutative. 3x5=5x3, and teaching that they are different is dumb.
@@frankd3522 which what explain to someone telling me I don't know anything about common core. In theory we could match Japan and Europe in education if we taught more like them. Instead of coming up with new ways to confuse children.
The point is to teach the process. By not writing out "5 x 3 = 3 x 5" _before_ they wrote "5 + 5 + 5 = 15" they failed to include the entire process. You also want your employees to be thorough and actually understand the work they're doing, right?
Frank Doyle the reason could be to show that the numbers do matter in the real world. If pay 5 bills $3 each it is different than if pay 3 bills $5 each. If i mistakenly pay 3 bills $5 my $15 is gone and 2 bills go unpaid while 3 are overpaid.
You sure? So far in my math, I don't even have to use the Repeated Addition. I don't think you know what you are talking about, as you copied and pasted that comment on other comments.
Chuck Boutwell The magic about multiplication is that you can just turn the number all around, up and down, and still have the same thing. If you tell a kid its wrong because they did this, youre basically telling him that a certain mathematical method that is very important for everything that comes after is wrong. How can it be right to teach a kid something wrong?
5 sets of 3 and 3 sets of 5 are not the same thing. make it a thing and it becomes obvious. 5 sets of 3 reps of the bench press versus 3 sets of 5 reps on the bench press. is that activity, identical? did i reach 15 in the same way? i didn't ask you how many 5 sets of 3 are, i asked you how much 3 sets of 5 are. answer the question correctly.
Yeah, I thought I was really smart in fourth grade when I figured out that any single digit multiplied by ten resulted in the same digit with a zero tacked on the end. Instead of making it a learning opportunity and teaching the class an easy math trick, the teacher accused me of using a calculator--because there's no way a 9 year old could possibly figure out something so mind-numbingly simple, right? And that was 1989....
Then you had a dumb teacher. I was doing similar in the 80's, realising or working out the basics of maths myself, and my teachers (in the UK) were largely fine with it. My kids go to school in Singapore. Trust me, if you are a 9 year old here and can't figure stuff like that out, you're in deep shit!
It's not only about getting the right answer to the problem. It's about understanding the relationships of the numbers. In basic math, multiplication seems more like addition, because the order of the numbers doesn't change the result, like it does in subtraction and division. Five 3s produce the same total as three 5s. But actually, in multiplication the first number is conventionally the multiplier, similar to how in division the second number is the divisor. So, 5x3 means five occurrences of the number 3, which is different than 3x5, meaning three occurrences of the number 5, in a similar way that "four rows with six columns each" doesn't mean the same thing as "six rows with four columns each". Moving from basic math into more complex maths, like algebra, the meaning of the first position as the multiplier becomes more apparent and more important. We put the multiplier number in the first position, before whatever units it is multiplying, as in 5A or 4(3+B) or 3(7x2).
My eyes got opened up last year when I was searching for how does negative x negative = positive. I learned 5x3 means 5 groups of 3. So I do not see a problem with kids in school learning the meaning. I also learned -5x-3 means subtract 5 groups of -3. We were taught multiplication was repeated addition but in fact it is repeated addition or repeated subtraction depending on the sign of the first number. I felt stupid until I realized it was just ignorance.
This just reminds me of English and History multiple choice being designed in such a way that A,B,C, and D are correct but C is the "best" answer so C is the only *real* correct answer
There were so many ambiguous questions. Its not what is the right answer but what answer are they looking for? Or the reading comprehension tests where they'd have you read stories that were mind numbingly stupid and you literally felt dumber after reading them.
Lol this brings to mind a science question in which none, NONE of the answers were correct and I left a detailed description of why each was wrong but she counted it wrong because one of the things that was false was almost true so that makes it the "best" answer.
+Magnus Anderson Then again this is the same teacher who gave us detention for going to the bathroom. And thought it wasnt a big deal that we got detention.
cookieQcity Yeah, I went through this with the Drug and Alcohol Course needed to get a driving permit. All choices were correct, but only one is the best. It is quite stupid.
Great insight!! and until you said it i couldn't understand why common core was so strict in controling how children think. This is far scarier than I thought. WOW common core removes any independent thinking or "out of the box" ideas.
Great insight!! and until you said it i couldn't understand why common core was so strict in controling how children think. This is far scarier than I thought. WOW common core removes any independent thinking or "out of the box" ideas.
Yeah...teaching kids to obey alright, Canadaghost...the Fabian way, on the way to the New World Order. God I am glad where maths was concerned, I grew up in a conservative era..otherwise it would be a case of "You will be put under the bright light and will not move till you break down and agrees that 4+3= 62!!! Shades of the book "1984" again folks! Was written by Orwell as a dire warning...but no one took any notice, bar the a/holes who want to turn our lives upside down. Our teachers in primary school showed us straight away the different equations that made up for example 15. We didn't need to worry about a lengthy process to arrive at that obvious number. Yeah, I am an old fart, and learnt basic stuff in primary school that they now teach in high school...sheesh.
Brian Morris Well if you compare Orwell and 1984 to Huxley and Brave New World - Huxley was closer, as Orwell claimed our enslavment would be forced on us, and Huxley said it would be something we ended up begging for. Huxley was closer to the truth, all we need, as he suggested is a wonder drug to take all our troubles away, could say its already here as Opium drugs like Oxy etc. Hmmm
Plus! I was explicitly told in math (even in Common Core conditions), that addition and multiplication are reversible. Whoever made Common Core should be fired.
The point of common core was supposed to be to help students gain a deeper understanding of math, instead of blindly going through a step-by-step process. Now, they're just punishing kids who understand math better
I'm a senior in high school now but back in elementary school I was taught that 5x3 or 5 times 3 is just the number 5 added 3 times. That's why it's called times. So with that logic 5+5+5 would be right.
Honestly, having it explained the way mentioned above made it easier to learn for me, especially with some of the weird multiplication rules. Like how 2x2 and 2+2 both equal 4. But 3+2 is 5 while 3x2 is 6. I guess it helped separate addition and multiplication easier.
+fester blats that logic comes just from the way you say it in English language. From a Mathematical view Xander is right, operands in Math always do something with what is before them, otherways brackets are needed. + and * are commutative so you don´t really get that an it does´t really matter but with the modulo operator it is different for example. 5 mod 3 = 2 3 mod 5 = 3 a mod b means a is manipulated with the modulo operator receiving the argument b a * b means a is manipulated with the multiplication operator receiving the argument b
It can be both was even in language depending on which part of the statement you put your accent upon. 5, TIMES:3 ...or... 5times ---->3. 5+5+5 vs 3+3+3+3+3. Damn these commutative accents.
I'm an academic mathematician and when I first read what common core was about I thought it looked pretty good. They're teaching tricks and shortcuts that mathematicians develop or learn independently, great right? Couldn't have been more wrong, the more I see how it was implemented it couldn't have been worse. I worry that mathematics will never be taught to children the right way. Five times three can of course be written both ways, I'd argue that for most people 5+5+5 is the most natural just because it's shorter, it's intelligent to minimize and compress so that's what everyone will do in this situation. Absolutely ridiculous to grade this way, showing absolutely zero intelligence from the teacher.
peter, High level mathematics is a quite diverse field with a large variety of workloads. Some of the effort is spent in the base properties of certain algebraic structures like you point out, but most of it isn't. But to tackle what I think you were trying to point out here, common core has essentially nothing in common with academic maths and I apologize if I gave the impression that it did. When I mentioned tricks and shortcuts I was specifically talking about arithmetic. A lot of kids develop a bunch of tricks to tackle arithmetic in school, as far as I can tell common core was an attempt to codify and teach those tricks to kids. The implementation on the other hand... Well we can see the results can't we? Regarding your last paragraph, I don't think any hairy sandal-wearing individual would waste their time debating 5x3. This issue seems like it's being generated in part by bureaucrats and in part by god awful teachers, both of which seem to refuse to use common sense.
Wroger Wroger, incredible that you have such insight into the inner workings of others. I suppose those super-powers come with the swastika in your profile picture? Assigning units to a unitless problem seems to me to just be confusing the issue, but I won't stop you if you feel the need to complicate matters for yourself needlessly.
Yolo Swaggins they are being taught all the ways plus some more. What you failed to catch is that they are being taught to follow a process. The belief that this is somehow damaging is just wrong. They know they are being graded based on how they follow the process. They are instructed to do. I have tutored students who have trouble with common core. In most cases it is the parents that can not grasp that it is about following a process explicitly. Then, they have trouble helping their children and blame it on common core. All of the classical methods are also taught. Anyone who tells you otherwise is flat out lying.
Bret Fuzz, Yeah the point of the tricks are that they are supposed to help the students calculating, if you're hamfistedly forcing them to write 5x3 as 3+3+3+3+3 you're not aiding the student, you're teaching a broken method. "What you failed to catch is that they are being taught to follow a process." I get that they could get good grades by following the method, what I'm saying is that the method isn't worth following, and it certainly isn't worth teaching to young people.
My son had problems similar to this in sixth grade. He spent his Elementary school years at a parochial school. He asked to be transferred to the larger public middle school so he could participate in sports not available at the smaller school. He tested at the ninth grade level in most areas, but when he actually started he was placed in the remedial classrooms rather than the higher honors level. Apparently the school lost his test scores and refused to retest him. So, he spent the next three years spinning his wheels academically, learning to swear and other important life skills. He did take advantage of the music program and learned three instruments, as well as participating in several sports. At home we enrolled him in basic college classes as soon as we were allowed to, so he wouldn't fall too far behind. He ended up graduating high school, as an Eagle Scout, with a 4.3 GPA, and lettered in three sports. He nearly had an associates degree before graduating but decided not to overload himself too much. We're very proud of him, but public education and it's one-size-fits-all way of teaching did not impress us at all.
This punishes children for applying commutative law, something they will heavily rely on when dealing with more advanced mathematics. This common core only serves to cripple our children's abilities.
I've always read "5x3" as "5, 3 times" , which would be 5+5+5. Conversely, I would read "3x5" as "3, 5 times", or 3+3+3+3+3. Not that it matters; you get the same answer, either way. Every single example that I have seen from the Common Core system, shows me that they have overly complicated simple math. Simple math needs to remain simple. It is the foundation for the more complicated math. If students of the more complicated math do not have the comfort of the simplicity in the simple math, if basic addition has been made overly frustrating, how will they learn the complex stuff? And, if they can't learn the complex stuff, God help us when we have no competent engineers in 20 years! Whoever came up with this nonsense, clearly holds a position of no importance, and had to create this asininity in order to justify his own existence. He should be promptly horse whipped, at noon, in the middle of the town square. So should the nitwits that pushed this garbage into the school system.
The way you say it suggests that 5x3 should be interpreted as 5 lots of 3. But you could also say that 5x3 mean 5 three times, so 5+5+5 is correct. There's no set rule determining how you interpret a multiplication sign, so long as the answer is correct.
Wrong. If you are teaching multiplication, you do not want them using addition to shortcut it. That's lazy and a poor example. And you wonder why China and other Asian nations are kicking our asses? They don't baby their kids and tell them they are right, when they are wrong or doing something the wrong way. Stop making dumb wussies out of our kids. Thanks.
Darryl Edington did you watch the video? In the US common core she explained theres only one way to do it, they don't tell them theyre right when they are wrong as you say
Darryl, all multiplication is addition whether it is 5 units of 3, 3 units of 5, or the reality of 15 units of 1. What is being taught is understandably that they want the child to show they understand 5 units of 3. They wanted the student to show 3+3+3+3+3=15. That is addition.
because xy = yx, 5x3 = 3x5, so if 3x5 = 5+5+5, 5x3 = 5+5+5. i get this, but imagine this situation: people who have cancer smoke or people who smoke have cancer technically, (assuming we're in a world where you can only get cancer by smoking) both statements are correct. But which makes more sense? i can see both sides of the argument, but personally, i would have marked the kid right cause who gives a shit? lmao
3rd grade math? Wow. I learned multiplication tables in maybe 2nd grade in India and it is still in my head. It was a bit like singing and remains with you for life. Faster than a calculator in most cases.
when the answer is correct it just is. when there exist multiple correct answers and you dont like which one the student picks to explain it you cant ethically dock a student for that.
Now that's just counter-intuitive. 5 is the first number we see, it's the "subject" number. In the heads of most, everything after with multiplication and addition modifies the 5.
If you have five cats you write 5 x cat, not cat x 5. In the English language, you also say "five threes", with the five describing the quantity of threes.
I would have read it as five sets of three...so 3+3+3+3+3...but, my desire for a shortcut would have flipped it to 5+5+5. When I was in school, long before CC, we learned that the + and x could be flipped, but also how to "read" the problem.
In 3rd grade I should have got 100 on a science quiz, but I got a 70 instead because I spelled false wrong, and every true or false question that I spelled false wrong on got marked wrong.
It's a fucking science test, not a spelling test. The teacher should have just written a note on your assignment that tells you that you spelled false wrong.
J. B. He's telling you it's a made up problem. The lady doing the video doesn't even understand commutative property. Either way would be equally correct. WHY are you alt-right types so eager to find conspiracy?
Sexeh Logan You d have to show real evidence of that, not some second hand nonsense from someone who clearly has no understanding of math. You d need to find guidelines saying what she's saying, and IF they exist, they clearly need to be corrected.
![ILLSLICK X YOUNGOHM - We're The same [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yUJNkobYR0E/mqdefault.jpg)
I had poor teachers like that. I remember correct answers marked as wrong because "we haven't learned that way yet." So students are penalized for being smart! This was long before "common core".
Haha in Year 7 (age 11) I said to my science teacher something about pressure and he roared "DON'T TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE PRESSURE UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY MEAN!" and I said, "pressure is simply force divided by area" and he just stared at me like he wanted to kill me and moved swiftly on. Prick \(^_^)/
Camberwell86 wow so smart
You're far too kind
I thought the whole thing about common core was to promote students learning from other students.
Oh, I remember a good one.
Checking homework at class. Teacher tells me to go to the blackboard and do an exercise about calculating the perimeter of an equilateral triangle. In my mind I simplified the specific formula for equilateral triangles (side x3) to the one valid for all triangle perimeters (side+side+side). I start writing the formula. Teacher asks what am I doing and tells some shit kid to do it for me, using the specific formula she taught. Teacher tells me to write *50 fucking times* all the perimeter and area formulas we had so far. I spend till 2 a.m. writing that shit.
The next day she forgot about it so I spent hours doing that crap for the fucking funsies :)
The fact that the kid used common sense to make the much shorter derivation of 5+5+5 shows that he clearly understood the problem *and* is probably not a lost intellectual case like the people that came up with this nonsense.
Alex May EXACTLY
But it is not 5+ 5+, it's 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3...and those are not the same things, even though they give the same answer.
@@michaelbean2478 The Transitive Property of Equality comes into play.
Well if that were the case why didn't the kid just write three times five? And I don't think he did understand the problem he understood the solution. The difference lies between thinking and knowing. Knowing things is good but without being able to think about unknown situations a person is lost. Also I have to point out that this can also be attributed to the fact that math is a language. Common Core isn't bad it's a different language. Think about the way that in English we put the adjective before the noun or the adverb before the verb. But in certain other languages it's done in just the inverse way. If you look at languages across the world you'll find that sentence structure varies handsome major ways though all of this has a tendency to affect the way a person processes information. I hope all this makes sense
@@michaelbean2478I'm glad someone else understands that yes this is the case
1:19 um, no. The 5 comes first in the equation. So it’s 3 groups of 5, not 5 groups of 3. They’re interchangeable making the students answer correct. As someone else explained. It’s a law in algebra that AxB=BxA. 5+5+5=3+3+3+3+3. This type of schooling should be held accountable for some degree of fraud.
DUH!!!
Yup, this. It's "5", three times. (mathematically the same as 3x5)
I think it's called the Commutative Property. Learned in in 1960's grade school.
Absolutely correct!! Someone should tell the teacher that multiplication of real numbers is commutative.
I think the logic is that once you get into algebra, the formatting would be 5x, or 5 sets of x, or x+x+x+x+x. But since it's not algebra, and both numbers are known already, either choice should be an acceptable answer.
For heaven’s sake. He was using the commutative property of multiplication. Showing more understanding of basic arithmetic than the teacher?
For heaven's sake, he showed he does not understand it.
@@mikeeljahosafats3231 The solution of transforming 5 x 3 into 5 + 5 + 5 is most efficient, and therefore it is the preferred solution. The child was correct. The teacher is a simpleton who should not be allowed in a classroom.
It's a commutative law of algebra that A*B = B*A
Ya man well if I order 3 hookers a piece for my 5 friends (me included of course), and 5 hookers a piece show up for 3 of us, someone who thinks like you is gonna be stuck with his hand.
2x-2 -2x2
Exactly ! It's the very first thing we learn when doing multiplication !
Oh dang, you beat me to it.
by teaching kids this common core way they might miss out on this rule and struggle with algebra
I thought this was going to be a mind blowing lesson about why 5 plus 5 plus 5 is not 15
Same tbh
It's still mindblowing, but instead of super deep and incomprehensible quantum mathematics, it's mindblowing how FUCKIN HORRIBLE EVERYTHING IS NOW
I kinda thought so too. I tried doing the math in my head, I did it on a calculator, I got 15 both times. I would want to know since when did they change all that? What have we been learning this whole time?
Too much weed homie.
same wff
Visually a 5x3 and 3x5 rectangle are THE SAME RECTANGLE because which axis is X and which is Y has not been defined.
This is "repeated addition" used in home schools. GOOGLE IT!!
They do - but at a later age, and because they haven't been taught this, oh, shit, they're fucking dangerous, discourage them!
The same rectangle, yes, but a very different matrix.
You might try actually reading the grade level standards in math for, say, K-3 on multiplication and see when students are taught that addition and multiplication are commutative. Also, check to see where they're taught that 3 x 5 = 5 + 5 + 5 and NEVER 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3. You'll have a very long search in front of you, since that's not claimed in the Common Core at all. You're seeing the results of mathematically weak teachers following a teachers' manual from a commercially-published textbook series like robots instead of like teachers.
WoW,Did't know that *Sarcasm*
The fact that they made this thing to help children understand what's actually happeneniny and they end up saying that 5+5+5=15 is incorrect is INSANE. Stop confusing children
"Johhny has 3 apples, he eats 2 of them. Calculate the radius of the moon using only a paperclip and this information. You may not step outside between 7:00pm and 6:00 am for reference of any sort"
ISHERWOOD75 the answer is lamp
ISHERWOOD75: One too many hits on the bong?
Clearly The answer is the third
Pirates of the Caribbean movie.
The fUDGE
I think I had this question in 7th grade
As a full-time Asian, this absolutely disgusts me.
I work as a white male 6 hours a day.
WeeHenThe Amazing I work 5 hour being a white cis male, 10 hours being black, and then the next 8 hours being every other kind of person.
as a half time asian, and a half time american
i am also disgusted with this common core logic
Eliza Schuyler Me also
As a half time Asian (Russian) This destroys the soul
I would've put 7.5 x 2 just to fuck with the teacher.
or 15 x 1
then I would have written, "lolumad?"
remember class:
1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1
this is edited which makes me think you can't count...
is joke, comrade
900/60 also works.
*teacher marks it wrong*
"It's actually 2 x 7.5, Jimmy."
This is what I hate about public school. It's not about doing things YOUR way, exploring and discovering the right answer, or finding various ways to get the right answer. It's about doing things specifically THEIR way.
Not going to lie; this is training for what it's like in the adult working world. If your boss tells you to do a project a certain way and you deviate, your boss has all the cause in the world to fire you for insubordination.
👍😁😁😁
Whelp I've lost (5x3) IQ points. Or did I lose (3x5) points?... shit...
I think you've really lost (1 + 1 + 1) + (1 + 1 + 1) + (1 + 1 + 1) + (1 + 1 + 1) + (1 + 1 + 1) IQ points.
Meis smart no everyone here is stupid, you've lost [(5+3)+(3+5)]^0+(5+2)2
{2773√[372(х^40)]•3.7654e/i[286πr^2(345.56°)]-3.37e145}^0-{√25•-3-[e^(π•ι)]}
rop rop ok you win,I'm too lazy to enter that into a calculator
*+rop rop* Boooo! Eliminating everything by raising it to the 0 power is cheating!
Common core is basically the education system getting mad at you for being smart and taking shortcuts while they're the ones being dumb and doing things in unnecessarily complicated ways.
Gavin Pinto I hate overcomplication
Gavin Pinto EXACTLY they're trying to drag everyone down that's America for yoi
I know right, smh
you Tony Stark profile pic makes your comment much more satisfying.
No. common core is basically wanting a kid in Alaska, California, Maine, and Florida to learn the same thing at the same time. So by the time they graduate HS, they all "know the same info." It's the curriculum the schools choose that causes the problem. The state standardize test don't care bout the "shortcuts" used, they just want the correct answer. But the teacher is stuck with the book lesson, and grading on that scale. So if a lesson states that aXb=b+b+b+..+b and the student shows the work as a+a+a..+a, then yes they are wrong. It's along the lines of this question "use a blue crayon and a yellow crayon to show what happens when you mix the two colors." You have a blue, yellow, and a green crayon. You know the end result is green, so you just use that. But you are wrong, because you didn't follow the directions. Silly, yes. But it's testing a skill, not an answer.
the commutative property states that A + B = B + A therefore, by the rules of math, the given answer is correct. If the testers wanted the operation to be done in a different, specific way, the question should have been asked in a sufficiently defined manner so as to REQUIRE that the operation be done as intended. Math is a precise language, the fault was due to the writers of the test itself.
How come this comment has 34 likes when it's talking about mathematics being a precise language while stating the commutative property for addition when the video is about multiplication? I guess people simply aren't willing to read carefully enough and just "like" what ever "sounds right".
Your first sentence makes it sound as if there is " THE commutative property" for every binary operation - which would be false. Thereby your very comment isn't precise enough even though multiplication does also have the commutative property.
Dominik Gerndt, because those who liked it are correct and you are ignorant. Commutative Addition and Commutative Multiplication are identical.. 4x3=3x4 and 3x4=4x3. Learn some math before trying to tell others their correct answer is incorrect. You could have googled this in seconds instead of coming here posting wrong information.
Douglas Frazier It seems the information provided in this video and available to the schoolchildren is different.
Math is a precise language, and the correct answer is precisely 3+3+3+3+3. If the teacher hasnt taught that, then thats the problem right there. But what the teacher should have taught, is to ALWAYS do it the precise and defined way, at least in school, and then let the kids do their own way after school, if they wish.
There should not be a sufficiently defined manner, if there is a need for it, then the teacher has not taught properly. If the teacher has taught properly, then it is the fault of the student who hasnt learned it properly.
Multiplication also adheres to the commutative property, it only doesn't apply when there is also a arithmetic function in the statement so (8+1)*2 is not equal to 8+(1*2) but that is why there's a formal order of operations that always applies absent parenthesis to indicate otherwise. He is correct, the commutative property dictates that a*b = b*a, understanding the commutative property along with when it applies is an essential tool in advanced algebra, discrete mathematics, trig, and calculus. You do kids no favors teaching them things that must later be unlearned. As for evaluating correctly to 4-5 verses 5-4 is a bad example. Subtraction written that way is short hand for addition using negative numbers the commutative property doesn't apply there because you're essentially saying -4 is equal to -5, the way 5-4 should be written is 5+(-4), now suddenly we see that the commutative property does indeed still apply to subtraction. 5+(-4) = 1 = (-4)+5 All three statements are indeed equivalent.
no, a+b=c duh
this is partly why I hated math in school and thought I was bad at it but when I took remote learning in college and the only grades came from in-person tests, I was able to get over a 100% in the class. Working by myself without someone telling me the processes I use are problematic, letting me explore online teachers offering different perspectives, and guiding my own homework by self-reflecting on the aspects I didn't understand changed the game
If you got over 100%, then it seems your math was still off a bit. 😂
@@vanhattfield8292what he meant was he got 0 out of 100 correct.
Multiplication is commutative, which means 5×3=3×5, so the grader was completely ignorant in taking any points off. This level of incompetence can't be tolerated in education.
You are 100% correct
My thought exactly!
But wait...IT GETS BETTER. They get partial points for doing the problem correctly, but coming up with a wrong answer.
Alexander Damjanovich
But Alex, it was neither 5x3 OR 3x5!
That was not what was done. If you see a car, and you say its a car, you are correct. If you see a red car and call it a blue car, you are wrong. You are talking about the wrong problem. 15 IS INDEED an acceptable answer. But if you turn it to 5+5+5, it is not. 5x3 is very specificly 3+3+3+3+3. It is very specificly wrong if you write it as 5+5+5. There is, and cannot be a mistake about that.
EbonyBunny1 You are 100% wrong, since Alex there was not correct.
Common core lacks common sense .
Right???? I hate common core it's too confusing
David Kinney so the way that was taught for generations, teaching multiplication tables, worked for many generations, isn't a proven way? Common core is all about dumbing down children.
The problem with common core is it takes basic simple math and makes it way more complicated than it needs to be .
tappedout300xc Holy fuck will everyone quit getting pissy about common core? Its wrong for the same reason you were wrong school for just writing the answer "You didn't show your work".
Common Core standards are just trying to show kids an easier chain of logic to better understand arithmetics. It basically breaks down large numbers into bits so that adding to, subtracting from, dividing or multiplying these bits of numbers is easier than doing the same to the whole number. You do it every day when you make change with coins. Its just trying to teach numbers to be practical. So calm the fuck down about common core.
Coda ; Looks like your the one getting pisssy here . No need to get upset defending common core . It's not upsetting me talking against it . Now calm down and get yourself a Snickers bar .
Common core math test: 5x3?
Kid: 5x5x5=15
FBI: Don’t fucking move
omfg this comment got me wheezing😂
5x5x5=125 though.
should be: kid 5+5+5=15
That's the point dude
That would be 5 cubed.
Parents and companies:"Why are kids getting dumber?"
Exactly. Make it so hard they simply give up trying.
Exactly, they're just giving up and not trying, because they are punished if they think because public school was never about making educated citizens, it was about making good little factory workers who just do what they're told
I feel kids could get the wrong idea with a scoring system like this. They might think 3x5 does not equal 5x3.
"Repeated addition" is defined by home schools as "number of groups times group size" or 5x3=3+3+3+3+3. They learn 5x3=5+5+5 later when ready.
Michael Toso Why aren't they ready at the time multiplication is learned?
No videos here Have you tried to communicate with youngsters? Keep it simple with an eye on learners' maturity.
Michael Toso I certainly wouldn't want to drop learners off in the deep end, but students will have already learned that 1+2=2+1. If you say multiplication works the same way, nobody will be confused.
No videos here I am willing to let the teacher define how to teach. The video title says "Why is 5+5+5=15 Wrong on Common Core Test". In this case the lesson is "repeated addition" and the video ignores that.
How ridiculous. "Hey son, don't think, be a robot."
Sadly that is what common core is doing. When I was growing up, as long as you get to the answer in a logical and efficient manner you were fine. Adding Five Threes together seems like the inferior option to me, since it takes longer. I was helping my sister in law with this crap a few years ago. I have seen the idiocy first hand. Assiging PEMDAS problems without explaining PEMDAS. Sorry for the angry rant, common core just really pisses me off.
TrackHead Studios It's the opposite of being a robot. Common Core and the teacher were checking for the understanding of a concept as opposed to accepting a robotic answer. Think before you comment. This is what is being taught: th-cam.com/video/E6yk9O43t3c/w-d-xo.html
Chilly Willy Give me a day or two to consider before I reply (I'll have to reboot my 'robot' brain first so I might employ "the understanding of a concept.") ;)
Chilly Willy Understanding of what concept? Multiplication is commutative so the answer was indisputably right. The 5x3=3+3+3+3+3 is used in English speaking countries, in Italy (for example) the preferred formula is the one the kid wrote, although both can be used (look it up on Wikipedia if you don't believe me)
GREAT GREAT POINT North Destiny. Thanks for backing me up... and with the proper vocabulary even: commutative. Nicely done. Rock on.
You remind me of my grandma. She advocated for me when I was in 4th grade (I'm 25 now), The teacher was taking marks off my tests and homework simply because I wasn't using the formula she wanted me to use, even though the formulas I was using were acceptable, accredited, and still getting me to the correct answer. My grandmother taught me math, so I was doing math the way it was done in 1930's. Still the same answer. Fight for your kids folks!
Video is complaining about TRADITIONAL lesson & grading policy.
I mean , the awnser is the fucking same either way whats the fucking problem
Coggy Sprockets 5x=x+x+x+x+x if x=3 5x3=3+3+3+3+3.If I'm writing a list of items I'd write 2xapple 3xbanana not applex2 bananax3 Sharon Jones Using different methods is very important as it may be easier sometimes to use one method rather than another and one method could demonstrate higher understanding than some easier method. In one of my University courses, we weren't allowed to use one method unless it was specifically stated you could as it made the questions a lot easier.
dalek1099 when I'm making a parts list. I always list the items first and follow it with x2, x3, etc. It's how we doing it at work and it's the norm in my area. The item is more important than the number and that's also how the computer program displays it on our screen and print outs. My point is that either way is correct. As long as the answer is correct, it doesn't matter how you got it. Unless the teacher is grading them on the student's ability to learn the method. I've had teachers accept wrong answers as long as the method was correct. Never understood how that was acceptable in an engineering college.
That's bullshit.
5 x 3...reads as five three times. 3 x 5...reads as three five times. They wrote the question backwards.
It's wrong because the person who was grading it just lost all their money gambling and needed to take their frustration out.
or just because it's wrong
Stephanie I reckon it was a Ponzi scheme.
Stephanie Joobern Since when has moral right affected mathematical right? So, if you are happy, 2+2=5 because its happiness extra?
Ribbitgoesthedog Lastnamehereyeah It's just a joke, friend.
Stephanie Joobern You really should put a silly face after it, because its really easy to confuse with a real opinion. Not that it will work 100%, as the net is filled with idiots, but it its easier to distinguish from the sea of ineptitude. Thanks.
If you ask me, it makes more sense for 5×3 to be the same as 5+5+5. To me, it's like saying you're taking the number five, and multiplying by 3. Or adding 5 to itself 3 times. Idk. It's hard to explain. All I know is that this is bull.
5x3 is 3+3+3+3+3 fundamentally in math. You cannot switch it to 5+5+5 because that is wrong. When you get to higher orders of math such as calculus and algebra you can't swap the order around just because its easier, it leads to an incorrect answer. Try multiplying matrixes both ways, you will end up with different answers. One will be right and one will be wrong. This is why typically higher order math tests such as my calculus exam less than a 1/3 of the points given on the essay questions were for the actual answer. The majority of the points were for showing how you got to that answer.
Garrett Davis I understand. I'm just saying it would make far more sense (imo) for the the first number to appear the same number of times as the second number. You know, just because of reading left to right.
Garrett Davis but, I suppose you can argue it's like English, were the modifier appears before the noun, so I suppose it's the same concept in math. Even still though, I believe in every day life, 5×3=5+5+5=15 is more than sufficient. In matrices though, I understand that it's very different, and of course it should be done properly then. But for mundane life, it just doesn't matter.
Garrett Davis at the end of the day, as long as you get the right answer, and you can get the right answer every time, that's what's important. No need to make things more complicated than they need to be.
You say it doesn't matter. But for the millions of engineers and other professions that require you to understand higher order mathematics it does matter. The point is to prepare you for a job you may need the skill for in the future. Just getting the right answer to 5x3=15 is never going to help you in life, especially when we have a calculator. It's understanding the concept of multiplication that will help you in life. Although I think the common core method is extremely stupid, this is one place they get it right. If you think the only thing important in math is getting the right answer, you dont understand mathematics at all. Not to mention if you think you can magically get the right answer everytime with this method in higher order mathematics, not only do you not understand math, you are probably very dumb. You can't just magically get every answer right every time. That is why we learn how to solve problems. Math is extremely straightforward, but at the same time becomes more and more complicaticated the further you get. Of course creativity is important in math, but if you can't even understand a fundamental concept of how multiplication works, you won't get further than calculus before you hit a wall. It's much better to teach students the proper way of multiplication early since its not any more complicated. Whats more complicated about it? You say its more complicated than it needs to be, but all it is understanding the order of which to multiply. The order of which you need to multiply matters at higher levels, and since its extremely easy to teach someone this way of thinking at an early age I believe it will help them since its no more complicated than the other way. However some of their teachings are more complicated and just confuse students. But teaching them that there is a difference between 5x3 and 3x5 is not complicated at all.
The Commutative Property is a fundamental of mathematics. a.b = b.a
The 3rd grader instinctively knew this because it's so obvious, even if they don't know the name for it. By marking this answer wrong, the teacher is essentially teaching a child that the commutative property is wrong, which is fucking indefensible.
Your slightly incorrect. It is fundamental to the "common" number system. Matrix multiplication (for example) isn't commutative. That said, for the age level, the commutative property should be accounted for.
I wish I could hit like more than once, you beat me to the point. For simple multiplication such as this it is imperative that the student KNOW the commutative property, not be told it does not exist. This will certainly not prepare a student for later math classes, except to prepare them to fail. As an ME major I know the value of the commutative property, without it I could never solve any of the problems I get.
The commutative property guarantees the answer will be the same, regardless of whether it's ab or ba. However, 3x5 and 5x3 are not the same math problem. The former is "three instances of five added together", while the latter is "five instances of three added together". That principle is the basis of all further mathematics, and should always be taught before shortcuts such as the commutative property. Math isn't always about what the answer is, it's about the understanding the concepts behind the problems in order to understand how you arrive at the answer. You could tell a first grader "10 squared equals 100", and they could memorize that answer and spit it back to you whenever you asked them. Unless they understand WHY, though, then the entire thing is pointless. Instead of memorizing multiplication tables and spitting them back whenever asked, students are learning how to understand the concept behind multiplication before anything else. If anything is indefensible, its the fact that we used to teach simple memorization instead of teaching principles and concepts like we do now.
Mike L
That is a linguistic approach to math, which is still wrong. Any problem (of this type) can be expressed either way (3x5 or 5x3) and communicate the same "story".
You're correct, if the "story" you're referring to is solely the answer. 3x5 and 5x3, although they yield the same answer, are not the same problem. Even still, the point is completely moot in relation to the story presented in the video, since the problem didn't ask "what is 5x3?", it asked the student to use the repeated addition strategy to solve 5x3 (source: the paper itself i.imgur.com/KtKNmXG.png). Using repeated addition, 5x3 is not 5+5+5. It's 3+3+3+3+3. The student failed to correctly use the strategy being stressed in the example, as is further explained by the student's other error visible in the image I have provided. Common Core stands, the student was wrong from both a conceptual perspective as well as the practical application of the concepts he/she was supposed to be using.
I'm in the construction business and I work with alot of guys who use calculus and geometry on a regular basis. You guys are going to be mad when I say this, but they all use calculators. Nobody's promotion is based upon "showing your work" but your termination might depend on wasting time doing that.
It is a common mathematical law that a • b = b • a. That kid was right.
Not when a and b are matrices, so "common" is misleading. The idea is to teach kids math literacy, not arithmetic: the question is about what the statement says, not what it evaluates to.
Chase Dowling What?
Sergio Payan matrix multiplication isn't commutative like alot of other Operations, ie for matrices A and B
AB is not equal to BA
yung PVRP Is this video based on matrix multiplication??
Sergio Payan no, I was just explaining chases point
so school is becoming even more ridiculous and soul-crushing. didn't think that was possible.
same
Oh trust me from this 11th grader...it gets worse
Yep, it apparently is.
In soviet Russia you dont take Common Core
Common Core takes you
*soviet America
TAKE ME COMMON CORE 😩😩😤💦💦💦💦👅💦💦
vladimir makarov Who's that in your profile art? Not the Makarov, I play cod but that sexy girl who is she?
vladimir makarov Who is that handsome Russian man as your avatar? Is he you?
Counter-Weight Official Channel lizzie velasquez
So it's not a Math Test, it's an Obedience Test.
my life is too fucking short for this bullshit
Thanks
Complain to home schools, they do it too!!!
Getvagazzled amen
Amen bro
So you assume that he made the realization before watching the video? Is that common core projecting?
Maths should be about finding the solution the most efficient way possible and not about complicating that process to get the same result.
that is a very offensive thing to say
Michael Parker damn right
Michael Parker Agreed. Math is very much that. I still use it with different methods to get the answer. Common core, fix the problems.
Let's take that thinking and put it towards language. In language, we're constantly evolving it to make it easier to communicate with each other, and this has resulted in things like slang and text-speak. With language, you're taught the proper way and people come up with the slang and such themselves, and maybe eventually that becomes the norm. So now tell me, how is that any different than with math? You learn basic language components and structure early on in your life because it helps to have when you get to the more complicated parts of language later on, and that's the same with math. These are still the basics, and if you change the basics because it's easier for them now, they're going to have trouble later. You can still teach a kid that addition and multiplication problems can have the numbers switched and get the same answer, but letting them know that there's a reason later on to keep it consistent is important.
Rukifellth On that we can agree.
Imagine if Newton just got told "sorry we don't do it that way" when he created calculus to better find certain results
Newton was not a child just beginning to learn.
A lot of people probably did say calculus is unnecessarily complicated. Proving a limit is much different than, "close enough". Have you ever given calculus a try?
I hope ppl realize that the way Newton and leibniz did calculus was completely different. Newton’s version of notation was harder to read so we didn’t adopt it.
@@happybear3706 I am interested to know why you think your mention of the difference of Leibniz and Newton is relevant to this discussion.
@Become upset. Common Core IS actual math to produce flexible problem solvers, not just training mindless human calculators!
Strange classwork stimulates thinking!
As someone who was always good at match and did lots of it in my head and therefor gave points taken off for not showing my work common core seems like a nightmare.
Failed two division tests shortly after being placed in the 4th grade because I did short division not long so therefore I must have cheated to get the correct answers. I argued with the teacher, but she wouldn’t believe me or give me a `pop’ quiz to prove it. I wasn’t a mathematical wunderkind, but I’d transferred from England to Ontario Canada and (at least) at the time the school system was more advanced in England (Ontario wasn’t even doing cursive writing by that point). I was bored for the next two grades.
5+5+5 is simpler to solve. 5 is a simpler number in a base 10 numerical system, and there are fewer numbers to add. Someone should deduct this teacher from their job.
Exactly, shouldnt matter what you put as long as it still equals 15 (or the answer)
Congratulations Sadpants, Atel and Theo. You just proved your ignorance of mathematics. 5*3 is read as 5 groups of 3 which is why the student was to write 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 15. This distinction becomes important in matrix algebra, but since y'all haven't taken matrix algebra you don't know this. Your picking apart the curriculum which was written by people who actually know WTF they are talking about. They are teaching kids this so they'll have this idea down beforehand.
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 15 but the problem wasn't 15 groups of 1, but 5 groups of 3.
I would like someone to write out the addition expansion of the following multiplication problem:
78546298012438723987234 x 4
Sadpants McGee no it's not the teacher. She was told to teach in this common core way so if she marked it right (which it is right) she would be doing her job wrong. It's the common core method that's stupid
Anon54387 gosh then why do they say “use different strategies”
This is why I hate common core. This kid was just thinking for themselves and got marked wrong because they didn't do it how the teacher wanted. This somewhat happened to me in Algebra 2. We took a test and when we got it back I had made a 40 on the test even though I only got one problem wrong. The teacher said it was because I didn't work it out how she wanted me to.
At least it's not as bad as computerized testing:
*Sorry, you got the wrong answer!*
*You answered "15" - The correct answer is "15"*
*Review your working and find where you went wrong.*
Ultimately kids are taught to follow directions, take orders. Not think. People cry conspiracy but just look at it! LOL..
your comment has 15 likes
In high-school, I was nearly expelled for refusing to 'show my work' when factoring polynomials.
I had developed a technique where I could do in my head, and it always worked.
In Mr Takahashi's math class, everyone showed their work. I tried to 'show my work' by using my technique, but he couldn't follow it. "Do it the standard way!"
The teacher was old-school, so my refusal was a discipline issue, not a mathematical one.
I made an appeal to the school counselor to prove my point.
They tested me by having my teacher write problems on the board, and I was to call out the solutions.
He wrote over 250 problems, including some that were deliberately badly formed, which I caught as well.
At one point, I was calling out answers as quickly as he could write the problems.
He was mad. He didn't know how I was cheating!
I had to present my technique to my math teacher, a school counselor and the Vice Principle that I had learned to factor in my head and to prove it, I walked them through the process.
They all understood the process after that, and the VP thought it was a 'clever trick'.
After a few more examples, my teacher just left the room, silently.
I was excused from showing my work, but I still had to pretend to do it, for the sake of other kids!
BTW, the 'trick' is to ignore some of the terms, and look for patterns of sums, differences and products of the whole numbers.
If there is a 13 and a 42, then 6+7 and 6*7. You also know that everything is positive, as 6 + 7 = 13.
If you had -5 and a -36 then 4-9 and 4*-9 is afoot. That -5 is telling us about the difference of the terms, the -36 tells us that one term is negative. 4+-9, 4*-9 = -5, -36.
Sums, differences and products give clues as to the order of the terms and their signs.
I was told this was cheating until I proved that it works.
I was put off maths for years by a moronic teacher because she always marked me down even though I got every answer right just because I layed it out vertically and not in a horizontal line like she wanted. Back then I thought "I got it right and its still not good enough, I tried so hard to get everything right, I'll never be good enough she hates me" because that's how little kids think. It ended with a massive argument between my dad and the school
Turns out the only reason they could come up with was it 'wasn't policy to teach students to lay it out vertically until year 4' my dad was furious.
Thats ridiculous, it strips away the inventiveness and creative aspect of mathematics from a young age, math is meant to have multiple forms, many problems have multiple proofs and ways to solve them and you shouldnt be restrained to one way.
That's just school in a nutshell.
Creativity has no place in the school of learning
I didnt grow up with common core but I had a teacher in middle school who took half points if you didn't write it out exactly how they taught you and I was already struggling with math. I got a 50 because I forgot a step in her method meaning all my answers were right. If you're reading this ms.laird, screw you
loradreamer12 I had a similar issue in that I was naturally great at math but kept failing because I had a hard time writing out all the steps, or not as well as they'd want me to. I'd see a problem and just _know_ the answer in my head but noooo, I gotta write it out.
Sometimes trying to write it out would result in me fucking up at some point during the process and I would have been better off going with my instinct lol. Man, fuck those teachers. At least I answered it right.
That's stupid as shit because in College if you manage to get the right answer you always get full marks as long as you show all the work you did.
Man has defined the world of creation mathematically and has been successful in this way. Thank you.
I'm so glad Florida got rid of that common core crap.
JCaesar Another idiot that doesn't know what common core is.
kubush I know it has held back students because of it. You're the idiot here defending this broken program. You probably have a kid that relied on it while all the smarter kids were passing grades, but couldn't advance because yours was falling behind.
kubush. Anyone who believes that senceability can come from nonsense. Is the stupid idiot.
Florida did so to the detriment of Florida's kids. Not conditioning kids how to more easily handle more andvanced math can't be good thing. this question was *not* testing the kids comprehension of the commutative properties of multiplication in the simplest of terms, if the event it where about that both answers would have been correct
JCaesar That not how common core works. Common core is actually a higher set of standards than what states had before. You call it a broken program yet you have no clue what it is and how it functions.
5+5+5=15 QUICK MATHS
wrinkly doge Everyday man's on the block.
Jack - Photography that question was an occus
Da Ting go "skrrtt bapo'
wrinkly doge *maffs
wrinkly doge nope!
How the hell did i end up here?
MF Wesley i was watching space shuttle take off videos and ended up here somehow.
I was watching scenes from Fullmetal Alchemist, then a video about Star Wars' Imperial March played with a pencil, and then I ended up here... weird, right?
+SonicTrooper22 yeah LOL
Probably the pencil music.
SonicTrooper22 oml same it’s the freaking pencil stuff that brings us here
In Asia showing any type of work would also have marks deducted. 5x3=15 period, no work needs to be shown /s
A teacher, wanting to get some paperwork done during class, gave his pupils the task to add all the numbers from 1 to 100 together.
Before he could sit and open his paperwork, believing that they had enough work for the whole hour of the class, a single boy said: "Five thousand and fifty".
The teacher asked how did the boy know it so quickly. The boy explained that by adding the first and last number, 1 + 100, he'd get 101, by adding the second and second to last number, 2+99, he'd again get 101, and that there were 50 such pairs, resulting in the total 5050.
That boy was Carl Friedrich Gauss, a genius mathematician who has over 100 different things named after him.
The pile of crap that is the Common Core would send Gauss home with a "WRONG!"...
W-T-F, America.
Awesome example of thinking outside of the box. My first math professor once said to our class "There is more than one way to get to Seattle." Math is the same way. As long as the answer is correct it doesn't matter which route you took.
my math teacher added to that the limitation to only use the ways that produce the correct answer all the times and not the ways that produce the correct answer only some of the times. He would give you the warning that his test will include the math problems that would require you to use the methods that are universally applicable for the same type of problem.
He wouldn't downgrade harshly if there was usage of non-universal methods, but he's there to teach you to cope with all problems and not just the exceptions.
Magnus Anderson
one function with 3 elements and another with 2, you're comparing apples with oranges, congratulations for not recognizing 2 different type of problems to solve
+AwoudeX you could factor it if it was nx-1. That was my point however, if your teacher wants you to use a solution that works all the time, you wouldnt be allowed to factor or use other solutions that make it a lot easier but dont always work.
+Magnus Anderson And yes, I realize maybe I shouldve thought of an ax^2+bx+c function, just didnt want to spend an extra little bit of time to do so.
My calculator still gives me 15
Jorge Gaytan Ask Google to show you a picture of 15 apples in groups of 3 and 15 apples in groups of 5 and tell if they look the same. When you add the both up they'll equal 15 but they are not the same.
Something Despicable, you are out of context. It isn't the appearance that matters, it is how many that you have that does.
Something Despicable were talking about numbers dipshit not food. When the question involves food then you apply the appropriate logic. Geez.. it's not that fucking hard to understand that this teacher that told the kids they were wrong shouldn't be teaching.
Hateful_Jac hmmm this got me thinking about the times l got the right answer but not the procedure. I only have 1st year of medical school and l remember clearly the advice: "listen carefully and only answer what they ask, nothing more nothing less".
Hateful_Jac this is about common core jac not maths or numbers, the way you solve it is more important than the results, learning maths for the sakes of maths is the dumbest reason to learn it, i obviously learning it for the practical use of it not just because it's a friggin maths, that's why so many people hates maths because they don't even know what use they have in their life
This is ridiculous. High-level math is ALL about equivalency.
Fester Blats, third graders? You are saying THIRD graders? Are you serious? Since when does it take more than 2 years of math to get past addition? That's fourth month material, first year. Usually around that time, children are also supposed to know that the operations of multiplication and addition are order-independent - if they aren't told, they will recognise that themselves within months.
And well, thing is, the language itself is ambiguous because the operation is commutative. "5 times 3" does not really correspond to any particular real-world experience. It could mean "5 groups of 3" just as well as "5 repeated 3 times", with latter being merely rearranged to better correspond to mathematical notation, and linguists don't even know for certain which it is. Indeed with non-commutative operations, it's kind of common that the first operand is the primary one, while your (and teacher's) interpretation suggests that second operand is the primary operand of multiplication.
Another point to be made is that the student is being punished for being resourceful while being correct, because adding 5 three times is easier than the other way around, and punishing that seems like a terrible idea. School is supposed to develop universal skills, like creativity, critical thinking, logical reasoning, ability to combine these skills to gather and process data and arrive at new conclusions. It's often observed that it doesn't succeed at doing this, that often it quenches creativity and has you memorise an ever growing set of recipes that allow you to handle specific situations, but not even slightly different ones, recipes that are quickly forgotten once they fall out of use, leaving the person rather helpless. If you were looking to see why that might be the case, you have a real tangible example right here.
You might object, that if we don't punish creativity here, you're not gonna know whether they understood that not all operations are commutative. But that's the wrong way to go about it - you just need to test that separately by including test cases where they would mess up if they failed to grasp that.
+Snax But apparently spelling is.
Fester Blats Kids should understand that 3 x 5 is the same as 5 x 3. It's a property of multiplication that doesn't occur in division or subtraction. Teaching it this way would be more confusing, and could easily make some student think that the order matters.
The bottom line here for me is that if teachers want their students to adhere to "grammatical style" in mathematics, they need to be providing the style guide.
The video ignores the lesson where "repeated addition" is defined.
Far too many teachers have such a poor understanding of the subject(s) they teach that any question that isn't explicitly answered in the book for them they can't answer themselves.
When I was in college, all my math professors encouraged us to compare our solutions to the homework problems assigned - for the reason of exchanging ideas, and finding betters ways, or more efficient solutions for solving problems. By doing so, my classmates and I saw creativity in our different approaches to solving the same problem. Come midterm, and finals, we were better equipped to take those tests. Common core math destroys the creativity needed, along with intelligence that is needed for real world applications of math such as engineering, and actuarial science.
Why didn't she start with intro instead of being so loud
That's all fine and good BUT 5×3 , still equals 15.
Smart teacher!
Honestly, this is actually a new method to understand mathematics for me. Quite curious!
Same reasoning applies, BUT HERE is k-3, NOT college!
There is some high-class fuckery going on in school these days
So. Everyone got this in their recommended, eh?
Yep, next will be a pile of shit in a mailbox somewhere
Joshverd I did
i came here from a laotian dam collapse video
Yeah I was watching comic books and video game lets plays...fuck u google
I was watching the Cinema Snob review a porno spoof, and this was in my recommended. Maybe if it wasn't *almost TWO YEARS OLD*, it'd have some relevance. Google must be practicing necromancy or something, raising vids from the dead and cramming them into our recommended lists?
I can't imagine being a 2nd or 3rd grader who struggles with math, dreads the class, and comes to a correct answer only to be told "well you got the right solution, but the answer is still wrong."
How discouraging that would be.
Traditional education focus is on learning & proving mastery of LESSONS! Have we forgotten when in the past kids were require to showed their work when doing the 'standard' methods we seem to remember? They wanted the method of the LESSON even then!
How can new knowledge be learned when ignoring these fundamentals?
Because of reflective property, 5*3 = 3*5. The students should not have points reducted for something as trivial as "it's five groups of three, not three groups of five."
Jiggleworth22 also, its really ambiguous to say that 5x3 is "five times three" because it can also be "five multiplied by 3", also it is important to point out that outside of US (idk if in UK its also the X times X thing) 5x3 is said as 5 three times, which makes this whole thing even more stupid.
Adirbal And lets not forget the most important fact. That 5x3=(5)x3. Because x and / apply to the whole, they always modify everything that comes before them, not after.
Adirbal I'm Australian and I was taught 5x3 would be 5 multiplied by 3, not 5 lots of 3. I think that was wrong though (my primary school teachers sucked at math) because once you get to algebra 5x means 5 lots of x, not 5 mulplied by x. If the notation is consistent then the first number has to always be the multiplier (ie the number of groups).
lancer D 5x is no different. 5x meaning 5 x's and 5x as x 5's is the same. Because multiplication is commutative. The reason we take it as 5 x's is because it is an unknown, so we cannot write the other way around since we do not know how much x is.
lancer D both 5 lots of x and 5 multiplied by x are perfectly fine, so it's the same as basic multiplication as you described
Your kid is actually brighter for choosing the simpler way.
5x3 = Five *multiplied by* three. You take 5... and multiply it by 3. That means 5+5+5. What is 5/3? It is 5 *divided by* 3. Although both solutions to the problem in the video are correct, no matter what the teacher says. Simple multiplication and addition can be done either way, but not division and subtraction. Telling a kid no early on then yes later is just stunting.
SGTBizarro Imagine later on when the child is learning the communative and associative properties. Common core is horrible
SGTBizarro i dont know.. in indonesia 5x3 is *three* multiplied by *five* . The truth is just different in parts of the world i guess
Godeliva Chikass yes especially if they change crap as they see fit
Fester, this kid's test still should not have been wrong. If anything it shows that he knows that it is commutative. I don't know about everyone else, but when I was young we all knew that you could interchange the numbers.
5 is being MULTIPLIED BY 3! 5 is being made larger 3 times! Teacher is WRONG! No wonder anyone puts their kids in private school if they can afford it and most wish they could! Or home teaches or wish they could!
5x3=3x5
Proof:
5x3=3+3+3+3+3
=15
3x5=5+5+5
=15
5x3=3+3+3+3+3=15=5+5+5=3x5
Therefore 5x3=3x5.
Is there really need for proofs to explain as to why the kid is correct? Ffs
Tithe3016 LOL. Math major?
Tithe3016 omg
Mercy Main cs major
Hackerman
The reason is actually pretty simple.
Because (at least for me) multiplication and division are leaned around the same time, teaching young children that you can swap multiplication, but not division,can be confusing.
Also, the simple term for 5x3 is "5 of 3", which again, could cause confusion in young kids.
I see where you are coming from, but if you take into account all factors, you can see why it was done
When the hell did our education system forget that in multiplication it doesn't matter what order the numbers are in, same with addition. That's just how the student interpreted the problem (and they're not wrong). It would be a different situation if the problem was meant to solved in a specific way (and in this case that's just incredibly stupid), but it wasn't. The problem was asking what is 5 x 3. I'm glad I dodged this system by a few years.
ikr
c o m m u t a t i v e p r o p e r t y
French hFs the mark was deducted in a question designed to check understanding of how to read the multiplication operator left to right - the entire purpose of that expanding step. By teaching students to read it in one way, we're laying the groundwork for them to understand distributivity easier.
Allan Song Thank you
because it DOESNT MATTER. They arent teaching them just how to find the correct answer, but how to find it the correct way within the curriculum. you cant teach new stuff if they arent doing old stuff correctly.
having an actual structure to learning, instead of just memorizing a multiplication table is better. period. using your brain to think instead of just memorize answers leads to better educated, more intelligent students. its the OPPOSITE of what youre describing. instead of indoctrinating them with the answers without telling them how those answers are arrived at, its teaching students to THINK and process the information rather that regurgitate an answer. sure, there is a framework and it seems stupid to mark them wrong for arriving at the wrong answer the wrong way, but teaching people to arrive at an answer in a way that the next lesson builds upon, and the next lesson after that, etc etc leads to, like i said, a better education. no, its not the way you were taught, but american schools suck. they do. we are trying to improve that, and a more structured, more intuitive system is what other countries who have far better educations systems have been using for a long time. This really speaks of American prejudice and xenophobia. this is different than what i know, i dont understand it, therefore is it wrong. no. you are wrong. your hair-brained tinfoil hat government conspiracy malarkey is indicative of this.
And this my friends is called inefficient. Doing more work rather then doing less work for the same outcome.
Disagree. Teaching a student what the question actually _means,_ and teaching the student that asking the question a different way can mean getting to the answer a different way is immensely valuable... and will SAVE them a lot of grief and frustration when they get to much harder concepts down the road. Teaching students _how_ to think and not just _what_ to think is far more "efficient" than just telling them, as you apparently would, that 5X3 is the exact same things as 3X5.
Had you been given an "efficient" education when you were younger, you'd already understand this. We're trying to help these kids avoid thinking in circles like you're doing when they're your age.
Jesse Cole lol
Efficiency...
Interesting you use that word as America's education system is anything but efficient. Yes, you're right that it "teaches" students how to think, but that's the problem. It TELLS them how to think, not letting them apply their own methods to solve issues. (Being a CSE Major, I have found my own education has crippled my ability to think through solutions.) The education system is so normalized that students who don't learn in a conventional environment are lost, just like I was. I wasn't a good student, not from lack of trying but because the system I attended forced a singe learning method on me that was highly inefficient and extremely stressful for both myself and my father. It's a system that forces everyone into a tiny box and cuts off the bits that won't go in or don't fit, and it's not a good system. It never was, but that's the way it's been and that's reason enough to keep it around in the eyes of politicians and boards of education.
I'm also finding as I've grown older that people think kids are stupid, which isn't true. Not in any sense of the word. In fact, they're smarter than most adults but the "old guard" (meaning adults like you and I) actively, and sometimes intentionally, stifle that intelligence. Everywhere I look, I find some mention about how kids need guidelines, rules, and strict enforcement. How students need to adhere to a set of standards and anyone not meeting them is not only lost in the dust, but considered a complete dunce. Like learning a different way or having a different method from "the norm" is somehow a mark of shame or rebellion against a system that is, in honesty, completely broken. Kids aren't stupid, they're just inexperienced. Maybe we should treat them like that instead of labeling them "dunce" until further notice.
Back to the immediate matter: 5x3 = 3x5, this is simple math equivalency. I ask you this then: is it more efficient to think "Oh, it's 5 groups of three" or "three groups of 5 = five groups of three, so I can do three groups of five and get the same answer."
Do remember: This is math, not English. It shouldn't have been marked wrong, despite what "educators" think. If they wanted the student to think of it a different way, then make a note or tell them, but don't mark a right answer wrong because the method wasn't what was expected. In Computer Science there are literally hundreds of ways of doing one action. Some long, some short, all are considered right because they work. Math should be the same way; If you have a method that works, use it. Rome wasn't built in a day, nor by politicians.
P.S. Sorry for being wordy, but this is something I'm rather passionate about.
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Scors4 Couldn't agree more! But I think that's changing, maybe in the next 20 years or so we'll be changing how children are schooled. The governments won't change it, of course, but the private sector will improve education methods, and then public schools should follow suit.
The first explanation is just as valid given the commutative property, which they also teach in common core. Another case of the teacher only having a superficial understanding of what they're teaching.
I'm so glad I graduated way before this system was put into practice.
Ha! My wife was a teacher for 40 yrs. She used ideas and methods now known as CC for 40 yrs! It all comes down to learning young kids to play, have fun AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Some elements here are from an early stage, they will all learn to add multiply etc in more normal ways, but hopefully with a better understanding. A better understanding than parroting. An understanding of how to solve problems that they never have heard of before. Their understanding and their fantasy.
The SYSTEM of teachers defining lessons & grading AND expecting students to learn & prove mastery of the lesson is TRADITIONAL, NOT PART OF Common Core!
The system described is FUNDAMENTAL LOCAL teaching policies that define lesson & grading where: students learn & prove mastery of lessons!
WHY IS THAT SO STRANGE?
The video refers to TRADITIONAL LOCALLY defined lessons & grading that existed for decades BEFORE Common Core. This lady hasn't bothered to fact check before commenting!!
2 words: Commutitive property
*commutative
Just as traditional math teaching, Math is taught step by step & commutative property is taught when the teacher decides usually in the same year!
How tf; there is nothing to distinguish like parenthesis therefore there is no correlation to commutative property.
ItsJugu Have you gone through common core or what?
Aqib Shah Yes, I'm a freshman in high school rn, and I was talking about distributive property sorry about that.
Teaching multiple ways to reach the same answer is effective teaching. However, penalizing a student for thinking differently than they are told to think is outrageous. I'm so disappointed that this is what teaching has become. They are encouraging group think. Can anyone see how dangerous this is!
Robbi M Welcome to nazi world order...
I can. And I'm a teacher!
KJBPSkipper Communists do the same thing, ya know. It's not just Nazis that wanna outlaw "wrongthink" just because they don't agree with it.
John King David Except that it wasn't poor or sloppy. It was completely reasonable, saved a shit ton of effort, and led to the same answer. We're not talking about Calculus AB or nuclear physics, this is multiplication and addition.
John King David I think you're the one with the head up your ass. Notice that the problem is 5 multiplied BY 3. The inverse would be 5 divided BY 3. I actually taught pre-calculus for five years and before that, 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade maths in somewhat random order (due to a lack of teachers at the district I worked for) for a good eight years, so I would recognize this stuff is absolute insanity. No kid should have to be punished for actually using the right formula, much less using AN EQUIVALENT FORMULA. If the formula gets you the right answer every time and it's simplified and thus nets less possibility for mistakes, USE IT, or you're only making things harder for yourself. EQUIVALENT FORMULAS ARE INTERCHANGEABLE. That is why they are equivalent.
What happened to memorizing up to 12x12 and using flash cards. After you explain what multiplication is, memorizing is the best and fastest way.
That's it
I'm dropping out of third grade
Dat Fancy I finished third grade 7 years ago
Dat Fancy my son already did. Have been homeschooling him sense. And he's back to being advanced because of it.
TheSnapback Same
Perhaps the correct terms are 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3, however, it is also important to teach kids about how it doesn't matter what order you do mulpication in, since it will always be equivalent. I don't agree with marking it incorrectly, especially since (judging by the difficulty of the question,) the student is in elementary school, not a university. Simply marking a test as 'incorrect' does not teach young students anything, other than that no matter how correct they were, they will never succeed. Trust me, that is not a good thing to be thinking.
There is no 'incorrect' term = you can use 5x3, 3x5, 5+5+5 or 3+3+3+3+3
*Multiplication*
Grey the Wolf, they do also teach the commutative property, but the purpose of this question was to make sure students understood that "five groups of three" and "three groups of five" are two different things. The actual question stated "Use the repeated addition strategy to solve: 5x3" but that part was deliberately left out of this video. This concept is not too difficult for kids to understand...
Here's an example:
5 cupcakes x $3 per cupcake = $15 total
3 cupcakes x $5 per cupcake = $15 total
Both of these equations have the same total result of $15 so they are commutative, but they are clearly two different things. In the first case you will get 5 cupcakes and in the second case you will only get 3 cupcakes even though you paid the same total of $15 for cupcakes. It's a matter of understanding that the two groupings are fundamentally different things, not just getting a final result.
Also the teacher did put the correct answer along side of the student's answer when grading it. So the teacher didn't just "mark it wrong" with no instruction on how to fix it.
Tekkerue | If the question was simply 5 x 3, and not in context, then I don't think it should matter. If it was in context, such as in the cupcake example you gave, then I understand the grading. However, from what I heard in the video, the question was out of context, and shouldn't be marked as if it were. Even if it were in context, I would give my students a half mark if they got to the right answer.
Grey the Wolf, but if mathematics isn't taught as it is applied in the real world, then what good is it to teach mathematics at all? Math doesn't exist in a bubble and the concepts are exactly the same whether you are working with plain numbers or with real situations. "Five groups of three" is still different from "three groups of five" no matter what context you put it in.
I think this mindset is a major reason why so many people feel disconnected from mathematics and often view it as "useless". Mathematics should be always be taught in the same way that you would encounter it in the real world and not as something different, otherwise they are just meaningless numbers on a page that serve no real purpose.
It's actually bad logic to read 5x3 as 5 groups of 3 instead of 5 three times. Its backwards and creates longer more drawn out work that in a STEM field of work would make you inefficient at your job. Whoever designed this course of teaching math failed math in school and didn't understand equivalency in solutions. How are children going to simplify equations as they get into higher maths if they're told they're wrong doing it when they start?
Some discrete math for you:
3+3+3+3+3 = 15 = 5+5+5 therefore 3+3+3+3+3=5+5+5 so not only is the teacher wrong as their logic says 3+3+3+3+3!=5+5+5 (!= is not equal to in CS) which we just mathematically proved.
It's just conformative in the box thinking being forced onto the youth of today.
its actually just as correct to read it both ways.
I don't think you understood the point I made. It can be read both ways, but writing 5+5+5 is faster and easier which for a STEM field such as Computer Science. Minimizing the level of effort and optimizing code logic is a frame of mind that saying 5+5+5 is wrong because only 3+3+3+3+3 is right is a terrible thing to teach. The student will have to unlearn the BS they were taught as children to think in a manor that would benefit them in higher learning. So why bother teaching it like that?
But then again there is way too much wrong with what and how children are taught these days and it is shameful overall.
This is getting overblown, but the kid was technically wrong in his proof. Yes, I'm well aware of the commutative property, but 5 * 3 reads as "five times three" which means "three, five times."
"Technically"... the student is also "technically" correct in their proof. Discreet math would teach you that when proofs are equivalent they are interchangeable. 5x3 does in fact equal 3x5. You can't say technically because that is a double edged sword. The argument is they were technically also correct.
It's not getting overblown it's actually a symptom of a larger issue with in the box thinking where children are taught not to think for themselves and to conform to a way of thinking that doesn't make sense.
We are now in a society where children are taught our society is sexist and racist purely because of the past. That a person's color and gender determines who they are and not their actions of the present or future. They are then demonized and punished for thinking outside that box and it starts with simple things like this.
You can call this one example making a mountain out of a molehill but it isn't. It is pointing at one of the many stones that mountain is made of.
The kid proved the wrong problem though. The answers are interchangeable, but 3 sets of 5 is not the same thing as 5 sets of 3. Yes, the commutative property is very important and tends to make solving problems quicker, but again, he solved the wrong problem.
That is so stupid my brain hurts. Now I need aspirin.
I'm thankful that this BS doesn't exist in Canada. The people here understand the term "efficiency". The school system here is top notch. I'm actually INTERESTED in my high school courses.
Dude Lmao It doesn't exist here in the UK, either. I can see why many Americans grow up hating maths.
Canada here i come!
America sucks to be honest.
i dont get why it even matters, a 1 question in a 3rd grade test. no idea why people spend their time complaining about this.
TheCyanDragon True
Defies the commutative property of multiplication. Algebra's gonna suck for them.
The child should have been given an extra mark for knowing that is was communative! :)
+awindwaker
It does to every group that a 3rd grader would need to use until late highschool
This seems to be teaching kids to not look at a problem from various perspectives that can achieve the same result. Thus, if there is an easier method to solve the problem you cannot use that method because it is wrong, even though it solves the problem.
If you want to teach kids in precision and proper methodology, teach them a programming language. Nothing convinces you more about being accurate and precise than having to debug code and finding out that in addition to using improper command words, or instructing the program improperly, you left out the colon at the end of several lines.
Common core appears to be more in line with brain washing rather than the dissemination of proper mathematic knowledge and skills.
Agreed
Anything that has the word "common" in it should be avoided like the plague.
Could not have been better said
It's wrong because the actual question stated "Use the repeated addition strategy to solve: 5x3" it's (5) x (3). and 5+5+5 is (3) x (5). It's not the "answer" that is the solution, it's what is the proper annotation.
www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/md/multiplication-repeated-addition.php
we were taught 5x3=3x5 and vice versa. oh wait. they taught common sense, not common core. LOL
Well it is 5 x 3 (five times 3) right? But I'd still write 5+5+5.
Breenud39 TV We were taught to think "five OF 3", × was of
Dizastermaster well in math terms “of” means multiply
Basically they teach you to waste space and ink
I'd write 5+5+5 cause I'm lazy as fuck
In Roman Numerals: "3" is "III" , and "5" is "V", so 3X5 is "V V V" 5X3 is "III III III III III" so they are different. Case Closed.
Its actually (1+1+1+1+1)*3
Crimsonfireball Nope, it's (1+1+1+1+1)*(1+1+1)
I thought it was ((5*5)/5)*((3^2)/3)
it's actually (succ(succ(succ(succ(succ(zero))))))*(succ(succ(succ(zero))))
U must hate math...
No its (4xy7)(2x3y6)
Why was this in my recommended?
SaiyaMan2011 I agree!
I thought the exact same thing.
Dan Brioli or they're making the whole thing up. First of all there's no such thing as a "common core test"; common core refers only to a set of proficiency standards, not any particular curricula. Secondly, this smacks of "aren't you OUTRAGED at this?!?!" that's usually a dead giveaway the storyteller is presenting an outright lie or very specifically edited facts in a heavily misleading direction so as to be, effectively, a lie. Until I see the actual test paper and hear the actual teacher's side of the story I'm inclined to believe it's fake.
THATS THE REAL QUESTION RIGHT THERE
Yes. Why, indeed..?
Back in the 80s in Australia we just ROTE learnt the multiplication tables up to 12*12.
If you had to use addition to solve anything within that range, you hadn't memorised the tables well enough.
If you get the answer right then you get the answer right. Damn common core
If you’re a cashier no one is going to say “How did you get that answer”
"A machine told me" is probably the answer here
And thats why they dont list individual item prices or list tax separately.
right?
This is still stupid, because multiplication is commutative. 3x5=5x3, and teaching that they are different is dumb.
@@frankd3522 which what explain to someone telling me I don't know anything about common core. In theory we could match Japan and Europe in education if we taught more like them. Instead of coming up with new ways to confuse children.
The point is to teach the process. By not writing out "5 x 3 = 3 x 5" _before_ they wrote "5 + 5 + 5 = 15" they failed to include the entire process. You also want your employees to be thorough and actually understand the work they're doing, right?
Frank Doyle
the reason could be to show that the numbers do matter in the real world.
If pay 5 bills $3 each it is different than if pay 3 bills $5 each. If i mistakenly pay 3 bills $5 my $15 is gone and 2 bills go unpaid while 3 are overpaid.
So 5x3 and 3x5 are not the same thing... good to know
yeah nothing in common
You sure? So far in my math, I don't even have to use the Repeated Addition. I don't think you know what you are talking about, as you copied and pasted that comment on other comments.
Chuck Boutwell The magic about multiplication is that you can just turn the number all around, up and down, and still have the same thing.
If you tell a kid its wrong because they did this, youre basically telling him that a certain mathematical method that is very important for everything that comes after is wrong.
How can it be right to teach a kid something wrong?
Kermit The Taco It's called commutative property.
5 sets of 3 and 3 sets of 5 are not the same thing. make it a thing and it becomes obvious. 5 sets of 3 reps of the bench press versus 3 sets of 5 reps on the bench press. is that activity, identical? did i reach 15 in the same way? i didn't ask you how many 5 sets of 3 are, i asked you how much 3 sets of 5 are. answer the question correctly.
Yeah, I thought I was really smart in fourth grade when I figured out that any single digit multiplied by ten resulted in the same digit with a zero tacked on the end. Instead of making it a learning opportunity and teaching the class an easy math trick, the teacher accused me of using a calculator--because there's no way a 9 year old could possibly figure out something so mind-numbingly simple, right? And that was 1989....
Then you had a dumb teacher. I was doing similar in the 80's, realising or working out the basics of maths myself, and my teachers (in the UK) were largely fine with it.
My kids go to school in Singapore. Trust me, if you are a 9 year old here and can't figure stuff like that out, you're in deep shit!
It's not only about getting the right answer to the problem. It's about understanding the relationships of the numbers.
In basic math, multiplication seems more like addition, because the order of the numbers doesn't change the result, like it does in subtraction and division. Five 3s produce the same total as three 5s.
But actually, in multiplication the first number is conventionally the multiplier, similar to how in division the second number is the divisor.
So, 5x3 means five occurrences of the number 3, which is different than 3x5, meaning three occurrences of the number 5, in a similar way that "four rows with six columns each" doesn't mean the same thing as "six rows with four columns each".
Moving from basic math into more complex maths, like algebra, the meaning of the first position as the multiplier becomes more apparent and more important. We put the multiplier number in the first position, before whatever units it is multiplying, as in 5A or 4(3+B) or 3(7x2).
My eyes got opened up last year when I was searching for how does negative x negative = positive. I learned 5x3 means 5 groups of 3. So I do not see a problem with kids in school learning the meaning. I also learned -5x-3 means subtract 5 groups of -3. We were taught multiplication was repeated addition but in fact it is repeated addition or repeated subtraction depending on the sign of the first number. I felt stupid until I realized it was just ignorance.
This just reminds me of English and History multiple choice being designed in such a way that A,B,C, and D are correct but C is the "best" answer so C is the only *real* correct answer
There were so many ambiguous questions. Its not what is the right answer but what answer are they looking for?
Or the reading comprehension tests where they'd have you read stories that were mind numbingly stupid and you literally felt dumber after reading them.
Lol this brings to mind a science question in which none, NONE of the answers were correct and I left a detailed description of why each was wrong but she counted it wrong because one of the things that was false was almost true so that makes it the "best" answer.
+Magnus Anderson Then again this is the same teacher who gave us detention for going to the bathroom. And thought it wasnt a big deal that we got detention.
cookieQcity Yeah, I went through this with the Drug and Alcohol Course needed to get a driving permit. All choices were correct, but only one is the best. It is quite stupid.
omg i frickin hate that
The answer is simple: They are teaching the kids to OBEY. And do it even when illogical. Powerful programming.
Truth!
Great insight!! and until you said it i couldn't understand why common core was so strict in controling how children think. This is far scarier than I thought. WOW common core removes any independent thinking or "out of the box" ideas.
Great insight!! and until you said it i couldn't understand why common core was so strict in controling how children think. This is far scarier than I thought. WOW common core removes any independent thinking or "out of the box" ideas.
Yeah...teaching kids to obey alright, Canadaghost...the Fabian way, on the way to the New World Order. God I am glad where maths was concerned, I grew up in a conservative era..otherwise it would be a case of "You will be put under the bright light and will not move till you break down and agrees that 4+3= 62!!! Shades of the book "1984" again folks! Was written by Orwell as a dire warning...but no one took any notice, bar the a/holes who want to turn our lives upside down. Our teachers in primary school showed us straight away the different equations that made up for example 15. We didn't need to worry about a lengthy process to arrive at that obvious number. Yeah, I am an old fart, and learnt basic stuff in primary school that they now teach in high school...sheesh.
Brian Morris
Well if you compare Orwell and 1984 to Huxley and Brave New World - Huxley was closer, as Orwell claimed our enslavment would be forced on us, and Huxley said it would be something we ended up begging for. Huxley was closer to the truth, all we need, as he suggested is a wonder drug to take all our troubles away, could say its already here as Opium drugs like Oxy etc. Hmmm
Plus!
I was explicitly told in math (even in Common Core conditions), that addition and multiplication are reversible.
Whoever made Common Core should be fired.
Newgame+ LD You also forgot about how in mixed expressions the order of operations is always first.
First "×" and "÷" then "+" and "-"
+Newgame+ LD
Not in real life, though. But marking it wrong just because of that is definitely unfair to the student.
That's not what I meant.
2+3 and 3+2 both are 5.
5*3 and 3*5 are both 15.
BA = AB.
A+B = B+A.
A/B is not B/A.
A-B is not B-A.
The point of common core was supposed to be to help students gain a deeper understanding of math, instead of blindly going through a step-by-step process.
Now, they're just punishing kids who understand math better
"You wont always have a calculator with you"
Well thats where youre wrong
You always have a calculator with you. It's called a brain.
And a cell phone just try to pry that from anyone under the age of 40
I'm an Engineer but I was in college at 35, I want nothing more than to staple this comment to my high school Math teacher
@@comradekitty3759 I don't have a phone. I'm wayyy younger than 40. All my friends have phones, my family has phones, why don't I have one.
I'm a senior in high school now but back in elementary school I was taught that 5x3 or 5 times 3 is just the number 5 added 3 times. That's why it's called times. So with that logic 5+5+5 would be right.
Honestly, having it explained the way mentioned above made it easier to learn for me, especially with some of the weird multiplication rules. Like how 2x2 and 2+2 both equal 4. But 3+2 is 5 while 3x2 is 6. I guess it helped separate addition and multiplication easier.
+fester blats that logic comes just from the way you say it in English language.
From a Mathematical view Xander is right, operands in Math always do something with what is before them, otherways brackets are needed.
+ and * are commutative so you don´t really get that an it does´t really matter but with the modulo operator it is different for example.
5 mod 3 = 2
3 mod 5 = 3
a mod b means a is manipulated with the modulo operator receiving the argument b
a * b means a is manipulated with the multiplication operator receiving the argument b
i just noticed that / would have been an even easier example
10*2 means you have double of 10
10/2 means you have half of 10
It can be both was even in language depending on which part of the statement you put your accent upon. 5, TIMES:3 ...or... 5times ---->3.
5+5+5 vs 3+3+3+3+3. Damn these commutative accents.
It is both. 5x3 is 5 three times, but is also means 3x5 five times.
I'm an academic mathematician and when I first read what common core was about I thought it looked pretty good. They're teaching tricks and shortcuts that mathematicians develop or learn independently, great right? Couldn't have been more wrong, the more I see how it was implemented it couldn't have been worse. I worry that mathematics will never be taught to children the right way. Five times three can of course be written both ways, I'd argue that for most people 5+5+5 is the most natural just because it's shorter, it's intelligent to minimize and compress so that's what everyone will do in this situation. Absolutely ridiculous to grade this way, showing absolutely zero intelligence from the teacher.
peter, High level mathematics is a quite diverse field with a large variety of workloads. Some of the effort is spent in the base properties of certain algebraic structures like you point out, but most of it isn't. But to tackle what I think you were trying to point out here, common core has essentially nothing in common with academic maths and I apologize if I gave the impression that it did.
When I mentioned tricks and shortcuts I was specifically talking about arithmetic. A lot of kids develop a bunch of tricks to tackle arithmetic in school, as far as I can tell common core was an attempt to codify and teach those tricks to kids. The implementation on the other hand... Well we can see the results can't we?
Regarding your last paragraph, I don't think any hairy sandal-wearing individual would waste their time debating 5x3. This issue seems like it's being generated in part by bureaucrats and in part by god awful teachers, both of which seem to refuse to use common sense.
Wroger Wroger, incredible that you have such insight into the inner workings of others. I suppose those super-powers come with the swastika in your profile picture? Assigning units to a unitless problem seems to me to just be confusing the issue, but I won't stop you if you feel the need to complicate matters for yourself needlessly.
agreed. 15 = 3x5 = 5x3 = 15 or 15 = 15
Yolo Swaggins they are being taught all the ways plus some more. What you failed to catch is that they are being taught to follow a process. The belief that this is somehow damaging is just wrong. They know they are being graded based on how they follow the process. They are instructed to do. I have tutored students who have trouble with common core. In most cases it is the parents that can not grasp that it is about following a process explicitly. Then, they have trouble helping their children and blame it on common core. All of the classical methods are also taught. Anyone who tells you otherwise is flat out lying.
Bret Fuzz, Yeah the point of the tricks are that they are supposed to help the students calculating, if you're hamfistedly forcing them to write 5x3 as 3+3+3+3+3 you're not aiding the student, you're teaching a broken method.
"What you failed to catch is that they are being taught to follow a process."
I get that they could get good grades by following the method, what I'm saying is that the method isn't worth following, and it certainly isn't worth teaching to young people.
My son had problems similar to this in sixth grade. He spent his Elementary school years at a parochial school. He asked to be transferred to the larger public middle school so he could participate in sports not available at the smaller school. He tested at the ninth grade level in most areas, but when he actually started he was placed in the remedial classrooms rather than the higher honors level. Apparently the school lost his test scores and refused to retest him. So, he spent the next three years spinning his wheels academically, learning to swear and other important life skills. He did take advantage of the music program and learned three instruments, as well as participating in several sports. At home we enrolled him in basic college classes as soon as we were allowed to, so he wouldn't fall too far behind. He ended up graduating high school, as an Eagle Scout, with a 4.3 GPA, and lettered in three sports. He nearly had an associates degree before graduating but decided not to overload himself too much. We're very proud of him, but public education and it's one-size-fits-all way of teaching did not impress us at all.
This punishes children for applying commutative law, something they will heavily rely on when dealing with more advanced mathematics. This common core only serves to cripple our children's abilities.
Try understanding the issue. This is TRADITIONAL local lesson & grading policy & Common Core is NOT dictating grading or lessons.
Best answer yet. Correct interpretation.
Are you ignoring the lesson?
I've always read "5x3" as "5, 3 times" , which would be 5+5+5. Conversely, I would read "3x5" as "3, 5 times", or 3+3+3+3+3.
Not that it matters; you get the same answer, either way. Every single example that I have seen from the Common Core system, shows me that they have overly complicated simple math. Simple math needs to remain simple. It is the foundation for the more complicated math. If students of the more complicated math do not have the comfort of the simplicity in the simple math, if basic addition has been made overly frustrating, how will they learn the complex stuff? And, if they can't learn the complex stuff, God help us when we have no competent engineers in 20 years!
Whoever came up with this nonsense, clearly holds a position of no importance, and had to create this asininity in order to justify his own existence. He should be promptly horse whipped, at noon, in the middle of the town square. So should the nitwits that pushed this garbage into the school system.
EXACTLY!
I read and interpret it as 5 groups of 3.
I agree with you but both are mathematically equivalent and correct.
@@WillCamx the problem is, it is not useful
Me too. Cause my teachers reads 5x3 as 5 MULTIPLIED BY 3. So 5 is duplicated 3 times instead of the vice versa
The way you say it suggests that 5x3 should be interpreted as 5 lots of 3. But you could also say that 5x3 mean 5 three times, so 5+5+5 is correct. There's no set rule determining how you interpret a multiplication sign, so long as the answer is correct.
Wrong. If you are teaching multiplication, you do not want them using addition to shortcut it. That's lazy and a poor example. And you wonder why China and other Asian nations are kicking our asses? They don't baby their kids and tell them they are right, when they are wrong or doing something the wrong way. Stop making dumb wussies out of our kids. Thanks.
Darryl Edington did you watch the video? In the US common core she explained theres only one way to do it, they don't tell them theyre right when they are wrong as you say
Darryl, all multiplication is addition whether it is 5 units of 3, 3 units of 5, or the reality of 15 units of 1. What is being taught is understandably that they want the child to show they understand 5 units of 3. They wanted the student to show 3+3+3+3+3=15. That is addition.
because xy = yx, 5x3 = 3x5, so if 3x5 = 5+5+5, 5x3 = 5+5+5.
i get this, but imagine this situation:
people who have cancer smoke
or
people who smoke have cancer
technically, (assuming we're in a world where you can only get cancer by smoking) both statements are correct. But which makes more sense?
i can see both sides of the argument, but personally, i would have marked the kid right cause who gives a shit? lmao
Darryl Edington are you dumb or just high?
3rd grade math? Wow. I learned multiplication tables in maybe 2nd grade in India and it is still in my head. It was a bit like singing and remains with you for life. Faster than a calculator in most cases.
when the answer is correct it just is. when there exist multiple correct answers and you dont like which one the student picks to explain it you cant ethically dock a student for that.
2+2 is 4 minus 1 thats 3 quik mavf
2x2-2^0
The ting goes skraaa
(2+2)-1=3 quick maths
Anthony Fillipo phh do you know Anything about math. It’s 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 is 4 - 1 thats 3 long Mafs.
*SKURAAAAA*
Gabriel Villalobos bad day?
Now that's just counter-intuitive.
5 is the first number we see, it's the "subject" number. In the heads of most, everything after with multiplication and addition modifies the 5.
do you think it might just be a problem with the specific dummy who was tasked with marking the tests...
If you have five cats you write 5 x cat, not cat x 5. In the English language, you also say "five threes", with the five describing the quantity of threes.
I would read that five three times. Not three five times
I would have read it as five sets of three...so 3+3+3+3+3...but, my desire for a shortcut would have flipped it to 5+5+5. When I was in school, long before CC, we learned that the + and x could be flipped, but also how to "read" the problem.
artiew87 I hope that is the case. If it isn't then there is a really serious problem at the level of setting the exams for this grade.
Kid didn't only get it right, they understood it, which is far more valuable.
Things like this make me happy that I chose to homeschool my children.
watch my mathematics videos.
But the teacher here is wrong. Multiplication is commutative, 3*5=5*3.
God bless you for homeschooling. Are you aware of more families homeschooling as time goes on?
@@sassy3923 Yes, I am! And I'm super excited that the homeschool community is growing!!!
@@333whiteraven I'm homeschooled :D
In 3rd grade I should have got 100 on a science quiz, but I got a 70 instead because I spelled false wrong, and every true or false question that I spelled false wrong on got marked wrong.
It's a fucking science test, not a spelling test. The teacher should have just written a note on your assignment that tells you that you spelled false wrong.
no dummy, you were supposed to circle true or false. that's why.
Seth Portland then why didn't she mark my true ones wrong
Seth Portland Even if you were supposed to circle the answer, I'm pretty sure any teacher still would've given the marks for the questions.
I call bullshit.
SCREW COMMON CORE ÷(
Griffin Eckstein ah... the cult-left Google authority is here to reinforce their own bullshit
Griffin Eckstein "one of those old ladies" or whatever other category some cult-left sycophant shoves non-believers into. Sure.
J. B. He's telling you it's a made up problem. The lady doing the video doesn't even understand commutative property. Either way would be equally correct.
WHY are you alt-right types so eager to find conspiracy?
Despicably Irascible Rapscallion but common core only wants one way wich is Gay
Sexeh Logan You d have to show real evidence of that, not some second hand nonsense from someone who clearly has no understanding of math. You d need to find guidelines saying what she's saying, and IF they exist, they clearly need to be corrected.
In the great words of Stewie Griffin
"It doesn't matter how you get to the end of the rainbow as long as you beat the leprechaun".
This is why the fucking education system is failing.
Z-Army I think the system has failed long before, how else anybody could have made things like that.