Fixing An OLD Boat MOTOR With NO Experience ( Can I Do it?)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2024
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Side note! I learned This battery as well as most lithiums are not recommended to be used as a starter battery. whoops! I make mistakes so you guys don’t have to... Looks like I’ll be moving the power queens to trolling motors and or graphs! Thanks for the heads up y’all.
The pro have all lithium batteries! You might want to check on that.
This is the best way to get experience. I rebuilt a snowmobile motor on my basement freezer's lid. ( no workbench at the time). No experience either.
It was sunk in Lake Simcoe and I got it running again. Stripped it down and reassembled with new parts.
Great video.
Pull each boot one at at a time, and see if the motor runs differently. The ones that are firing will cause it to run worse when you pull the boot off the spark plug. Then you'll know which are firing and which one's aren't. Of course it could be a carb float issue also. But check the ignition system first
Yes but used insulated pliers and gloves or you will get a shock youll feel up your arm
Yes beat bet here
@@eddiemiles1920 That's another way to confirm its working
Instead of a spark plug tester try taking out the spark plug but still hooked up to the coil and lean the spark plug up against the motor head and then start it. If you touch the motor head you should feel a little shock. That or just try looking at the spark plug and see if you see a spark while hooked up to the coil while it’s running. That’s how I do it. Good luck with the motor
This is true
🤣
Works. I just unplug the wire put a screwdriver in wire hold next block get someone to turn it over with fuel off. Helps if it's dark. Especially if you've never done it. Also pay attention to the color of the spark as you do this. Each spark should be blue. If it's red you have a weak coil pack or stator. If all the sparks are good. Hook up the gas and watch it run in the dark. Look for arcs under or around the flywheel. If you see that the stator insulation is probably cracked. Also look for arcing around wires while doing so. Ps use a good rubber handled screwdriver or you will probably get a little bit of a jolt.
If all else fails. 90 is perfect compression. So I would concentrate on that right side. something changed their state. And unfortunately not sing a bad arc. Doesn't mean the stator hasn't gotten weak. There's plenty of videos on how to test it.
One last thing old motors used to have a strainer before the fuel pump. If that one does, blow it out even if it looks clean. Varnish can build up on them.
Hopefully when you deleted the VRO pump you mixed gas and oil 50:1 is what most mechanics would recommend. Also a lot of people have hit the nail on the head with the pulling plugs, or you can always stick the end of a screwdriver in the plug boot and hold it 1/4 inch off the plug and see the spark jump across. Keep up the good work!!
Did you sync the carbs when you put them back on? It may just be idling to low as well, turn your idle up a bit. When it's running just rev it up a bit with the rev up lever that's to the right of the throttle / shifter lever, and see if it smooths off. And also I am sure their are many comments on here on how to check spark without a spark tester. Does your spark tester have a threaded end on one side that you can adjust the spark gap, If the spark gap is screwed in tight the tester isn't goin to do anything.
Imma make this short but I have the same motor just a few years older, and having the same issues. I took it to a shop and they fixed the timing. Then I replaced the coils, and spark plugs. It runs amazing now and I’m loving it
I just went through this w my boat. The problem is you can't see electricity, and if you aren't good w a multimeter things get tough. Stick w it!
The move where you hold the spark plug against the block works.
Could be a coil (cheap).
Could be the powerpack that sends the spark to the coils. A few hundred bucks.
Could be the stator which makes the spark and sends it to the poweroacks.
The stator is hard to get to, but easy to diagnose. If it has plastic that is cracked and all the cooling oil leaked out it is shot. I replaced mine and my boat purrs like a kitten.
Keep going. You are going to be so happy when this thing is screaming across the lake! We are all rooting for you.
there are 2 packs on these. wasnt until 89' they did the quickstart with 1 pack.
I’ve watched all of these videos in this series and I feel that you may need to rebuild the carburetors rather than just clean them. If you have a sticking float needle or a variety of other issues it will cause you issues. You can also pull plugs (clean new plugs) and examine to see if you are getting too much or not enough fuel (buildup/soot on the electrodes or clean plugs with no fuel burn remnants). Just my 2 cents, hope you get it running and enjoy it
I believe you maybe correct but it also could be vac leak too or plugged idle circuit in one of those carbs.
Agreed. Many folks confuse cleaning with spraying a little carb cleaner around the carb and maybe the inside. Even if they don’t need rebuilt its great to them done and know they will working fine for many years
As Gavin L said. You really don’t need a tester for spark. Pull the plug from the block and keep it connected to the wire. Then ground it by touching it to the block and have someone turn over the engine. You’ll see spark or….. not. You doing great and proud of anyone willing to try something new to them. Keep at it.
I have a Johnson 90hp that I recently went through after sitting for 10 years and I have a few things I can share that I learned. I'm sure your compression is good but the OMC book tells you to have the carbs wide open when testing. I wouldn't throw money at the coils just yet since there are some tests that you can do prior to replacing them. There is a spark gap tester that you can purchase for relatively cheap. Very easy to use and it will rule out a weak coil quickly. I would have to agree with everyone saying that the carbs probably need to be rebuilt since the float needles wear out, stick and starve the carb for fuel. If they are anything like mine then they are very simple to work on and it just rules out the carbs other than the link and sync. As for the spark tester, the only thing I can think of is the bulb inside isn't making contact. Mine rattled around in it and all I did was stretch the spring but that was prior to using it so I have no idea if it would have been like yours. Hope some of that helps!
You can use any spark plug you know is good as a test. Put it in the boot make sure that the cap is correct. Some are threaded (stemmed) some are capped. Leave the one in the motor. Start it up and ground the plug you should se it sparking. If holding the boot scares you use coated handled pliers, or kids toy plastic pliers. Either way it will 100% tell if you have spark.
Thank you so much for your video!
In response to some of the comments： We do not recommend that you use Power Queen's battery as a starting battery. When used as a starter battery for a boat, the 12V 100Ah battery is suitable for pounds 30-70 lbs.
I have very little experience but my 1975 Johnson motor was running the same way and I thought it was spark but never could find the problem. Finally found a video talking about “lean sneeze” and once I adjusted the carbs it fixed my problem. I was just running it to lean. So that would be my advice because it looks like it is “sneezing” to me.
this wasnt sneezing at all, just running on 3 cyl. one power pack is likely down.
Pull the spark plug out of the motor 1 at a time with the wire still attached and touch the spark plug against a head bolt while the engine is running or cranking. Then you should be able to see the spark on the plug itself. I would narrow down the issue before I replaced anything else.
The choke should operate when you push key in. That lever is warm up lever
Yep, fast start warm up.
Have you pulled the flywheel to make sure all the magnets are in the right place and while you have it off replace the stator.
Check with Power Queen on using that deep cycle battery as a starter battery. Even though it obviously works, I've always been told to use a separate starter battery just for starting the motor.
@@FAKE-NAME starter battery charges off the alternator just like a car. Deep cycle house batteries, whatever the vendor recommends.
Oh, I see they DID send you a starting battery!
Lithium don't handle high current loads like during starting. On a lead acid battery this is called "cold cranking amps"
Great contents! do you have the description on the fuel pump you used? I am thinking to do the same thing.
It is great to read the comments, lots of help out there, good luck
You need to add back the airbox cover before you run over a certain rpm range.
Did you adjust all of the carb mixture screws? It definitely is misfiring, and sounds like the it still needing more fuel...if you can't get the plug tester, jam a screwdriver in the plug wire and put the screwdriver to a ground.
Could you drop a link to the pump you used 0:01
the spark plug tester will work. but it will be dim like very dim, so test them in a dark area. i had the same issue on my Johnson 70 of the same series. it's probably not the coils pack(s) it is probably a timing issue. these are very easy to time.
It sounds like a CDI box to me but you should still check spark. With the motor running pull each spark plug one at a time when the motor sound changes then you know that is a working plug when it doesn’t change you know that is a dead plug. From the looks of things you are using the tester right, sometimes the just doing like some motors, the pull and listen method works great and you dont need another person like you do with the pull and ground.
I like the black look how do the back rests attach
I’ve seen it on here but I’ll go ahead and restate it. Don’t just do a cleaning actually have the carbs rebuilt. Looks like your idle jets are clogged if it runs good with your rpm’s up but starts misfiring when you lower the fast start lever. Mine did this exact thing got some junk in the carbs cleaned them runs great at wide open throttle but doesn’t want to idle for crap. Rebuilt the carbs and all is right with the world.
Also if you aren’t already doing these two things do them every fill up. Add chemtool or sea foam to your gas and only get ethanol free premium. Helps keep those lines from fouling up. Last thing make sure you’re premix isn’t too rich on the oil. Good luck!
You need a double fuel pump for that motor you can buy it from max rules, and you need to test your stator & timer base to see if there bad your timer base tell the power packs to fire the coils you can download the troubleshooting sheet from cdi it will give you the info
Hey man, simple idea that I’ve ran into a lot working on motors. She sounds sluggish due to fuel. Who knows how old some of that fuel is in those lines/ carb. Let it run for a good while go work fresh fuel into if
Hey I need help. I can’t figure out how to hook my older 85 150 vro Johnson to my 98 stratos. Do you got pictures of the shifter wiring and how the hook into dash or am i missing a whole wiring harness?
Yeah has to be the coils. Hope you get it running.
Add the tester to the coil side of the plug wires. You might have a bad wire that's grounding out also if it lights up you know the coils good.
try adjusting the idle screw up a little bit... idle should be between 1000 and 1500 rpm also you could need to adjust the air fuel screw...
I had the same problem it was my ignition coils
Hey bud, awesome video! Got any clues as to what could be the culprit when an engine (Johnson 50hp 2cylinders with a VRO from 1988) acts up? I need to keep it choked for it to work, otherwise it just "burps" and dies. I know the engine hadn't ran for probably 4-5 years, as there was no fuses in the engine for the solenoid (I think?, I haven't checked where that fuse led to be honest), and the guy had ran it with 50:1 mix WITH a VRO as well... Compression's good, sparks seems to be working, carbs seemed clean.
One more tip. In the one cylinder that compression tested higher it maybe not firing. The excess unburned fuel will seal the rings better giving you higher compression reading in that cylinder.
you will need 2 of those fuel pumps to have adequate fuel for a 150. that motor will run lean and burn up. as for the spark, test your stator and trigger. 9 times out of 10 those are what go wrong. I replaced both on my johnson 150 and it ran like a whole new motor.
Pull boots off well running like other said works better, i have one of thos spark testers an they suck i wont use them, a much better spark tester is one that has an adjustable air gap that is settable.
The vro is for oil. Make sure you premix the gas if you remove it... you also have to figure out how to deal with all the gas already in the tank..
Of course lol. The tank is premixed
Remove spark plug wires while the engine is running and see if it has a big change in it use pliers with a rubber insulation on so you won’t get shock If you hold the spark plug wire over the spark plug you will have a popping noise
Use one gallon of gas and one full bottle of Sea Foam. Run it a while to get the motor hot and shut it off for a while. Re start and run it until your gas is empty. Several videos on here showing it done. Worked for me and I have a feeling it will work for you. Or take the carbs off and take them to a shop and have them rebuild and ultra sonic clean them.
If the carbs are fine have you tested the CDI box
Rebuild carbs. Guarantee it’s gunk build up. My mercury was doing the same thing. The kits aren’t too Spendy on Amazon. It’s really self explanatory. Take pics along the way. Good luck man but get them carbs rebuilt.
Did you check your wires my wires was bad and I had to change the spark plugs and the wires
ok.. check the stator under the flywhel.. might be your problem.. also you have two power packs, one runs one side and the other runs the other side of motor.. one could be bad and its running on 3 cyl... but check these two things and take it from there.. good lucl
Just a thought....try the spark plug tester on a motorcycle, if you have one....car...lawn mower...one of those should tell you if its working....
Compression is good those old motors are never easy to get idling good won’t know how it’s running untill it’s opened up on the water once the rpm’s get up if it’s still missing or surging then you might have a spark issue possibly the coils or coil wires to test the spark without a plug just touch the plug to the block and visually look for spark
Also it could still be fuel related maybe a jet in the carb or something simple but again go open it up on the water and see how it goes
Your motor is not peeing because your muffs need to be turned vertical, i had the same problem and it works like magic. Also I had same issue with tester but a 20 dollar laser thermometer from Home Depot will tell you which are not firing because not getting hot, then can narrow it down. It runs so you know that most of the ignition is good, so really it is either the CDI, coils or just dirty connections. I would clean every wire connection first, or give up like I did and buy new cdi and coils. Or the end of the spark plug wires where they connect to the plug is like a motor cycle, and they can be very rusty or corroded.
Adjust the carburetors if there adjustable
Sounds like not enough voltage on plugs. Or some may have no voltage. So. How it works. Assuming your motor is the same as most. The stator makes the voltage. Sends to pulsor coil. Then to spark plug coils. Then threw spark plug wire and into actual spark plug. Seems pretty easy to diagnose the problem. I hate doing the " throw the part at it and see if it works then keep going till problem fixed". But your motor is old. Start with the cheaper parts and see if it works. And if it doesn't it doesn't matter because the part most likely would have to be replaced shortly anyways
No smoke is a problem with a hand mix .should be 50 to 1 compression will go up also.
I had the same issue with the spark tester. Until I tried it after dark. It’s just hard to see in the sun.
I had that issue with spark plug tester. Sounds silly. But test the spark plug tester in low light or dark, trust me on this.
iv bought spark testers where the light bulb was in the package and needed to be installed
To me if it ran smooth with the choke on and rough when the choke is open you have a lean misfire. This is caused by vacuum leaks a carb not working. I've never worked on a outboard but I would get it running and listen and look for air being sucked around the carb base an manifold. For
S/G get a spray water bottle spray a few strategic squirts around the manifold bases and see if it has an effect ( make it run worse). It is the old school way to find your air leak. If it isn't that you may have a carb or carbs that need to have there idle adjustment screw richened a turn out.
Good luck but not all misfires are spark related there is air and fuel in this problem.
It could be an air leak. Check the gaskets on the carb. Bad gasket you could be getting to much air.
also make sure you have oil mixed in gas.. looks like the motor did not smoke at all. ..the vro pump mixed gas and oil together before it ran into motor..so you now have to mix in gas yourself..6 gallons is One pine.. 12 gallons is a quart.. 48 gallons is a gallon of outboard oil.. called TCW-3.. run nothing that does not have that on container..TCW-3 ONLY
Ok, there's a few things said on here that need to be ignored, ha ha. First off, be sure water is on when cranking no matter what. It's obvious it isn't running on all cylinders and some are intermittently firing. Find someone with a timing light and borrow it or go get one at harbor freight. Use the timing light to check spark. Be sure to hook it up with the arrow on the clamp facing the plug. Observe the light flashing and see if it's even or sporadic. As far as compression, those numbers would seem low but with them being that even, I suspect your gage is off. With that said some of their newer motors were designed that way. Not sure of the specs on that one. If you have even spark on all cylinders, it's time to revisit the carbs. The thing that worries me is the motor wouldn't run in the water probably due to back pressure. That could be due to it not running on all cylinders, but many times it's due to low compression. Get the firing on all cylinders verified then go from there.
Edited to say, don't just start throwing ignition parts at it. Test and verify that they are bad. You could throw away a lot of money otherwise. Get a factory service manual and use it. Stay away from the Chilton and Seloc manuals.
Let the engine run take a pair of pliers and pull one spark plug wire off at a time and idle changes you know that one’s firing if no change then no fire on that cylinder could be multiple things making it not fire coil packs plug wires trigger on fly wheel
Buy a pair of plastic spark plug wires, pull the plug at the spark plug and start the engine and then hold the wire close to the tip of the plug. You should see a spark come flying out to the metal tip of the plug or the block of the motor
The gap is adjustable, if its too wide it won't work..... Set the gap on the spark plug tester below 3/8".
Test coils ,stator and trigger with Alt meter , Great Boat,
The fact that it starts running bad when you turn of the choke means there is also an issue of not enough fuel or to much air. This is most likely the carbs. I would say get a rebuild kit for the carbs
Spark plugs are cheap on outboards change them all out I have a 150 Yamaha two stroke and it cost 25$ for all of them
You can check the coils with a cheap ohm meter. You don't need to know the specs, just see if any aren't anywhere near in numbers most of the others are.
I was having trouble, so having an extra power pack and set of coils I switched the power pack first, nothing different. I put the original power pack on and switched the coils, nothing different. Put the extra power pack back on with the coils it ran with before I got it, nothing different. Used an ohm meter on the coils, 1 bad coil in both sets. This process took two weeks, causing me to use my bay boat as my work boat-which it isn't set up for, and nearly came to dumping the entire tank of fuel on the outboard, flicking a Bic, and saying to hell with it and putting on another outboard.
Lesson learned-never change an entire set of coils without checking them in some way first.
My motor tests at 130 in each cylinder, 90s is a bit low but it’s not the worst I’ve ever seen. At least they are somewhat consistent in each cylinder!
different heads. a 150 crossdlow never made more than 120psi from new. this is a standard 150, not a gt/xp motor!
To check which cylinder isn’t firing when it’s running pull off the spark plug lead and if it makes a difference than that one is not the problem do this with all the cylinders until you pull one of the spark plug lead off and the motor sounds the same and doesn’t die then that one is the one that isn’t firing
I have an idea for the seats. Lose the middle seat, make that a step or console of some kind or both. Maybe you can Use that center seat as the pedestal seat for the co-angler in the back? You won’t ever need that third seat in the middle.
The seat actually folds int a step.
Also could use a flir camera to see what cylinder is the coldest
nah be different with the seats. air suspension base, rocker recliner on top with so much plush you could fall asleep driving it. marine grade upholstery.
Get me a lazy boy in this thang
I have no credentials at all and dont know very much about your motor but when my evinrude had a similar problem it turned out to be a bad ground and it took forever to find.
You might use plastic plyers rated at 600 volts to pull the boots out...it could be a shocking experience... I have a pair.
Fire it up and pull the plug boots off one at a time if the motor starts acting up plug it back in abs move to the next till you unplug one and nothing changes
If the primer bulb is going soft the engine will starve for gas! Get new primer bulb and line, NOT FROM WALLY WORLD EITHER! GET a good one from a boat supply place. Been there done that. Check that first.
Adjust your fuel and air ratio.....in other words, make sure the carbs are synced and adjust the carbs fuel and air intake!
Get a repair manual if you don’t already have one. It will help a ton.
Get in touch with Brandon’s garage guy. He’s got a channel on TH-cam an I watch him,he’s a prodigy when it comes to boat motors! Seriously give him a shout out!
Look on TH-cam for Matt’s shop he has a video on timer base & stator testing
Dude repaint the seat bracing gloss black and add a little bit of silver glitter flakes in it with a clear coat they should come out pretty nice and replace those gas lines and coils I would guess you’ve literally broke the motor down to the bones 😂 good luck bro
Could use a top end rebuild cause those numbers are lower they should be at a 115 to 120 at list on my 115 Jonson
😬😬
@@TightlineTV you can still run it just in the future it needs a top end
Can you check with Power Queen about using their battery as a starter battery. Only 1% of lithium batteries made are capable of engine starts. Could damage lithium BMS or engine charging system. Try the spark plug starter on your car. Might just be so dim you can't see the blub flashing. Good luck.
Good to know! Haha didn’t know that
Be sure the magnets inside the flywheel have not shifted. They have been known to break loose and shift causing the timing to be off
lots of comments that need ignored lol... Ok so... my background... Started build outboard engines at 10 years old in 1971. Been doing it ever since so how long is that? 54 years now. Had many repair shops and am retired now.
Anyway, as far as v-6 outboards go , you have the most long living and stable outboard there has ever been. Yours has had hard times and yet still going. With maintenance it can last you forever, let's see any 4 stroke make it to 40 to 50 years like yours....
Ok as for compression... The new compression on your engine was 120 psi. Ethanol came on the scene and was killing these engines so they did a simple fix. Make thicker head gaskets and lower the compression . With those head gaskets you would be running 90 to 105 psi most times with the mark being at least 90. In addition the next part is within 12 percent TWELVE, NOT TEN.
Assuming you have the updated head gaskets you are fine at 90, in fact that was the target psi for longevity. Your 85 on 1 cyl is more than likely a ring stuck from sitting and I will bet if you seafoam the engine after you get her running on all 6, it will come back to 90. . DO not buy what arm chair guys here are saying.
You have a few minor issues going on with carbs being half the battle. Take them off and clean them, make sure all the little holes are cleared out. Then sync and link the carbs to the ignition timing. It is not hard but has to be done close to perfect and there are many online helps available. Seloc and clymer are BOTH OK and will tell you how to do it.
I personally do not like either but they are not terrible manuals, just not real clear everywhere.
Your engine sounds like it is running on one bank / powerpack. Three running and three intermittent or not at all. Spark plug testers of that kind are jsut sucky. Easiest is just pull the plugs, put them in the boots and ground while someone turns the engine over. Better yet get yourself a remote start button, attach to your start solenoid so you can stand behind the engine and spin it over, if you unplug the big red round plug, you get spark at the engine without the key. Remember to replug it in when done.
Plugs are important but it sounds like you may have an intermittent trigger issue. The suggestion to look at flywheel magnets are important. They do not set timing but they do come loose and if one flings off you have a huge mess under the flywheel. Newer types like the looper engines that replaced yours in the late 80's and early 90's were different. They have a mark that reads the gaps basically...
If you have loose magnets you can clean them and reattach with epoxy. a 1/4 -20 bolt will make an almost perfect gaping tool between each magnet.
I have to watch the rest of your video before more but this is a good start.
when its running unplug the soark plugs one at a time. if the engine dies or runs worse go to the next, if the engine doesnt change you found your dead cylinder. they call it the power balance test.
That motor needs a carb rebuild with new gaskets. Check for vacuum leaks and good spark
Put new coils , and new solenoids, new plugs n wires clean the carbs u should be good.
Wish I could help more brother when it comes to fishing boat engines. But I'm about as useful as a screen door on a submarine when it comes to that period that. However it is still truly amazing to watch your dedication on this project. Can't wait to see it on the water running at full speed!😎😎👍👍👊🏼👊🏼👏👏
Coils or powerpack
Bad stator and trigger
The single fuel pump likely won’t deliver enough fuel for a 150. Crowley Marine sells a dual pump system that works well for a VRO delete.
You need to use an air gap spark tester. Remove all spark plugs, put the tester on a spark plug wire and ground the other end to the block. Adjust the tester to a 7/16” gap then turn over the engine. You should have a strong blue flame on each cylinder.
I also agree on the carb rebuilds. A motor hat say that long should have the carbs cleaned and new kits installed.
Take it out and run it now that it's running before you go changing the coils. 2-Stroke Johnsons tend to idle rough, but run great. 2-stroke Suzukis naturally idle rough, but run great. I have owned both. The old carburetor engines will never idle smooth like a new EFI engine. Hope this helps... Brews_N_Bass 🍺🎣
The fact that it is a intermittent miss fire, meaning it comes and goes….I would put my money on coilpacks
Do your carbs before looking too hard at spark
Timing
take it to the lake and run the dog crap out of it and straighten out it ain't been raining a long time so that would probably straighten it out if you get it in the lake and run it pretty hard good luck with it brother have a blessed day 🙏
Decarb cylinders with Seafoam hot soak
Clean the plugs with carb cleaner and let them dry out 20 min
Also wait until you re crank it 1 full min otherwise you will kill the starter. Or at the least 30 seconds and don't crank it more then 3 times without waiting 1 or 2 min
The fuel pump connection is pulse not vacuum! It works in crankcase pressure not vacuum……
90 compression not good